personally i think of "indie" as a relatively small game made by a relatively small team, unrelated to publishers or companies. i also think it's important to support "indie" creators because it runs along the same vein as supporting local businesses (or at least that's how it feels)
@Greedy.boy.Mammon two things. How would you guarantee that the publisher isn't adding anything? Secondly, doesn't no longer being independent kind of detract from the term "indie" which stands for independent lol
I disagree entirely. The team size is irrelevant. The relationship to the publisher is of supreme importance. The developer needs to be independent or it's not independent. That doesn't mean they can't contract a publisher to publish, but they can't be a subsidiary. Indie is simply a shorthand for independent _developer._
@@Llortnerof You've kinda contradicted yourself here. You're saying that the developer needs to be "independent" or it's not indie, but you also said "team size is irrelevant". If team size is irrelevant, then it shouldn't matter if the developer is independent or not.
@@VoltageDevelopment No. Indie = ind(i)ependent. Independence is the single most important feature. Team size isn't really part of it. Independent developers just usually cannot afford big teams, that's all.
My favorite example of a not-indie indie developer is Moon Studios, the creators of the Ori games. They are owned by a major corporation, Microsoft, and their games are published under said major corporation. And according to Google, as of 2020, Moon Studios has over 80+ employees. “Indie”
In other words, to have a successful indie game it doesn't have to be as "indie" as it seems. And it is a pattern that I have noticed many times on Steam, that those who have more sales and wishlists aren't only because they did a better job than mine.
i used to always associate 'indie' with a small dev team. maybe 1-5 guys working on it with no monetary backing from bigger companies... and maybe it used to be this way long ago. but the fact is you are very right - the word means nothing any more. having an indie tag is just a waste of a tag... IT TELLS ME NOTHING! i do like to support small dev teams or 'one guy in a basement'. Saelig is a great example of this. i just call them 'small dev teams' or say 'one guy' when talking about it... but i have to learn that from comments about the game on the Steam page, rather than any tag for it. can we get a 'one guy in a basement' tag? i am starting to become partial to the 'Game Jam' tag...
It tells you that the developer is independent. That's it. Which, frankly, isn't very useful most of the time. Star Citizen is technically an indie game. Think about that for a moment.
Indie used to mean a dev team that didn't even have the money to rent an office. Now it's kind of a co-opted catch phrase for hipster type gaming culture. I see dev studios with a solid million dollars in their budget advertising their stuff as indie.
One of my favorite things to point out is that technically, most of the Ratchet and Clank games are indy. As Insomniac was only recently brought by Sony.
it's REALLY simple: >Not financially backed by a large corporation in its production, created either by the developer's own pockets or through donations. to put it simply: indie games are homebrewed games - you really can't describe it any better than THAT. it isn't an aesthetic, it isn't a genre, it isn't even a marker of a game's quality, ...it's simply how the game got made. trying to define indie games outside of this will only go badly for you, and it'll just make you come to the nonsensical conclusion that the word "indie" is meaningless... and it's not.
In other words, one made by an (financially) _independent_ developer. Sometimes you have wonder how people don't realise that's where the name comes from. And yeah, it says absolutely nothing about the game itself. It's entirely about the legal and financial status of the developer. It's comparable to "self-publishing author", you wouldn't know what kind of books they write from that either. Also interesting to consider what kind of games fall under this when you actually apply it properly. Companies like Square-Enix with in-house development teams can produce indie games that most wouldn't even think about when they hear the term and that include tripe A titles.
8:27 Sure, why not? We have plenty of good comunicated labels for games: fps, tps, rts, fighting, shoot 'em up, hack and slash, isometric, low-poly, pixel art and many more. Certainly used to, but I dont think "indie" is a necessary term anymore.
Its a similar conversation across many creative fields. From writing stories/journalism, music production and film making to cooking, craftwork and tailoring. The exposure of various types of creativity through tutorials and showcases online has led to more people having access to the knowledge required. Eventually we may all someday, make all our own games and be the only people playing them
Tags actually are chosen initially by the developer, though players can add tags afterward. The developer can still edit them as well and can remove tags they see as inappropriate for the game. Indie does still have some use as a short hand to say you are operating as a developer outside the usual corporate structure.
Independent means no one paid for the production, but you or the group of people who's developing the product: no investors other than you or the group of people involved. Donations are ok, as the people donating will not profit from the product. The point is no one invested money in the production, but you or the team.
from what i can tell what indie is less than 50 people dev team cant be a franchise like baldurs gate 3 publishers dont really matter and isint really a mainstream game
I know that people are wrong when they say indie but I know what they mean when they say it but what’s the word you would actually use instead of indie?
As usual people in their sheer stupidity have let a simple term with set definitions become bastardized and lose all meaning, but personally I'll keep using it. What indie means is very simple; independent. That's literally all it means; no external publisher. Even if the developer is a billionaire, as long as finance the game themselves and don't rely on investors and other publishers, then they're independent.
I am surprised there is even confusion. "Indie" is short for "Independent", which in this context means "without a publisher financing it". Can't be any more straight forward than that. Developer-Size, Game-Size, artstyle, price, all that is not relevant.
You'd think that but people are flat out stubborn on having their own terminology thrown in there. I remember someone arguing to me that publishers are irrelevant, that it's completely dependent on budget. He kinda refused accept baldurs gate or ghostrunner as indie games because they felt high budget. Some people will only accept a style of genre under pixel art similar to the music scene that was demonstrated in this video that even though a lot of musicians fall under indie, there will always be people that associate it as a sound rather than its actual meaning. In similar vain pop isn't a genre, it is short for popular but that is also now been labelled as a genre. So all this mixed messaging alters or warps the meaning.
Interesting how most people assume anything pixel art is indie. I’m guessing that’s why Dave the Diver kept getting nominated for indie awards
super mario bros is now considered indie if its released today
It's the same why coldplay is considered now indie music but they belong to warner I think 😂
To me, indie now means creative independence rather than financial independence. A game can have a big budget but has "indie" development.
The music industry analogy was spot on
personally i think of "indie" as a relatively small game made by a relatively small team, unrelated to publishers or companies. i also think it's important to support "indie" creators because it runs along the same vein as supporting local businesses (or at least that's how it feels)
This is deceptively simple. Great breakdown!
Haha that's an awesome way to put it, thanks for watching!
Imo an indie game is a game MADE by a small team
I dont think the publishers matter as long as they cant influence the game
@Greedy.boy.Mammon two things. How would you guarantee that the publisher isn't adding anything? Secondly, doesn't no longer being independent kind of detract from the term "indie" which stands for independent lol
I disagree entirely. The team size is irrelevant. The relationship to the publisher is of supreme importance. The developer needs to be independent or it's not independent. That doesn't mean they can't contract a publisher to publish, but they can't be a subsidiary.
Indie is simply a shorthand for independent _developer._
@@Llortnerof You've kinda contradicted yourself here. You're saying that the developer needs to be "independent" or it's not indie, but you also said "team size is irrelevant". If team size is irrelevant, then it shouldn't matter if the developer is independent or not.
@@VoltageDevelopment No. Indie = ind(i)ependent.
Independence is the single most important feature. Team size isn't really part of it. Independent developers just usually cannot afford big teams, that's all.
My favorite example of a not-indie indie developer is Moon Studios, the creators of the Ori games.
They are owned by a major corporation, Microsoft, and their games are published under said major corporation. And according to Google, as of 2020, Moon Studios has over 80+ employees.
“Indie”
In other words, to have a successful indie game it doesn't have to be as "indie" as it seems.
And it is a pattern that I have noticed many times on Steam, that those who have more sales and wishlists aren't only because they did a better job than mine.
i used to always associate 'indie' with a small dev team. maybe 1-5 guys working on it with no monetary backing from bigger companies... and maybe it used to be this way long ago. but the fact is you are very right - the word means nothing any more. having an indie tag is just a waste of a tag... IT TELLS ME NOTHING!
i do like to support small dev teams or 'one guy in a basement'. Saelig is a great example of this. i just call them 'small dev teams' or say 'one guy' when talking about it... but i have to learn that from comments about the game on the Steam page, rather than any tag for it.
can we get a 'one guy in a basement' tag? i am starting to become partial to the 'Game Jam' tag...
It tells you that the developer is independent. That's it. Which, frankly, isn't very useful most of the time.
Star Citizen is technically an indie game. Think about that for a moment.
@@Llortnerofmost of the time they aren't even independent nowadays
This video was a very fun watch. I liked the Kirby shirt, too.
Very well put, it's fascinating how indie has become a marketing term
Indie used to mean a dev team that didn't even have the money to rent an office.
Now it's kind of a co-opted catch phrase for hipster type gaming culture.
I see dev studios with a solid million dollars in their budget advertising their stuff as indie.
your typical mainstrain game costs anywhere from 100 to 300 million
Can't watch just yet but dropping a comment and like for traction. Looks like a high effort video!!
Awe that's very sweet thank you!
One of my favorite things to point out is that technically, most of the Ratchet and Clank games are indy. As Insomniac was only recently brought by Sony.
it's REALLY simple:
>Not financially backed by a large corporation in its production, created either by the developer's own pockets or through donations.
to put it simply: indie games are homebrewed games - you really can't describe it any better than THAT.
it isn't an aesthetic,
it isn't a genre,
it isn't even a marker of a game's quality,
...it's simply how the game got made.
trying to define indie games outside of this will only go badly for you, and it'll just make you come to the nonsensical conclusion that the word "indie" is meaningless... and it's not.
In other words, one made by an (financially) _independent_ developer.
Sometimes you have wonder how people don't realise that's where the name comes from.
And yeah, it says absolutely nothing about the game itself. It's entirely about the legal and financial status of the developer. It's comparable to "self-publishing author", you wouldn't know what kind of books they write from that either.
Also interesting to consider what kind of games fall under this when you actually apply it properly. Companies like Square-Enix with in-house development teams can produce indie games that most wouldn't even think about when they hear the term and that include tripe A titles.
I remember people calling Divinity original sin 1 an indie game back in the day, despite the developers already having released many games
8:27 Sure, why not? We have plenty of good comunicated labels for games: fps, tps, rts, fighting, shoot 'em up, hack and slash, isometric, low-poly, pixel art and many more. Certainly used to, but I dont think "indie" is a necessary term anymore.
Its a similar conversation across many creative fields. From writing stories/journalism, music production and film making to cooking, craftwork and tailoring. The exposure of various types of creativity through tutorials and showcases online has led to more people having access to the knowledge required. Eventually we may all someday, make all our own games and be the only people playing them
Tags actually are chosen initially by the developer, though players can add tags afterward. The developer can still edit them as well and can remove tags they see as inappropriate for the game. Indie does still have some use as a short hand to say you are operating as a developer outside the usual corporate structure.
It’s weird how Indie basically means not from:
- activision Blizzard
- Bethesda
- microsoft
- ea
- nintendo
- rockstar
- ubisoft
Add yours
This! Except with *relatively* smaller publishers the line blurs a little for sure lol
Forgot Sony
Really cool video, congrats !😁
VIVALDI HYPE (ok i will sit down and watch now)
Haha I know right! I was super happy using that in the intro! :D what did you think?
Independent means no one paid for the production, but you or the group of people who's developing the product: no investors other than you or the group of people involved.
Donations are ok, as the people donating will not profit from the product. The point is no one invested money in the production, but you or the team.
from what i can tell what indie is less than 50 people dev team cant be a franchise like baldurs gate 3 publishers dont really matter and isint really a mainstream game
Ubisoft being indie is crazy
Indie core aesthetic
This is a good video
Thank you!
Great video!
Great video! Imagine it blows up a bit
Great video man, you got my sub and this is the first vid of yours I've seen.
Thank you very much! 😊
Great video homie, liked and subbed.
Now do a video about how “RPG” means nothing 😂
I die means anything not triple or double a
I know that people are wrong when they say indie but I know what they mean when they say it but what’s the word you would actually use instead of indie?
Indie is propped up as a minority by giants who just want more of the pie for themselves and less for you!
A like and comment for the Almighty Algorithm.
As usual people in their sheer stupidity have let a simple term with set definitions become bastardized and lose all meaning, but personally I'll keep using it. What indie means is very simple; independent. That's literally all it means; no external publisher. Even if the developer is a billionaire, as long as finance the game themselves and don't rely on investors and other publishers, then they're independent.
I am surprised there is even confusion.
"Indie" is short for "Independent", which in this context means "without a publisher financing it". Can't be any more straight forward than that. Developer-Size, Game-Size, artstyle, price, all that is not relevant.
You'd think that but people are flat out stubborn on having their own terminology thrown in there. I remember someone arguing to me that publishers are irrelevant, that it's completely dependent on budget. He kinda refused accept baldurs gate or ghostrunner as indie games because they felt high budget. Some people will only accept a style of genre under pixel art similar to the music scene that was demonstrated in this video that even though a lot of musicians fall under indie, there will always be people that associate it as a sound rather than its actual meaning. In similar vain pop isn't a genre, it is short for popular but that is also now been labelled as a genre. So all this mixed messaging alters or warps the meaning.
Indie = Small Game
Problem Solved