On The Trail of Apostasia - The Sham Translation History
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 2 ноя 2024
- Did all the versions of the Bible have "departure" in 2 Thessalonians 2:3 for the translation of apostasia until the Rheims in 1582? Did the translators of the older versions mean physical departure when they used "departure"? Are the apostasy translations the result of a Catholic conspiracy to remove the rapture from 2 Thessalonians 2:3? Or is this account a sham history that is every bit as bogus as the arguments for the inerrancy of the KJV?For more information about Soothkeep, use the links below:
About Soothkeep - soothkeep.info...
What I Believe - soothkeep.info...
Website - soothkeep.info/
Donate - soothkeep.info...
Contact - soothkeep.info...
Follow me on social media:
Facebook - / soothkeep
Instagram - / soothkeeper
Twitter - / soothkeep
Telegram - t.me/soothkeep
Rumble - rumble.com/c/S...
![Lil Uzi Vert - We Good [Official Audio]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/DrSfBULAsek/mqdefault.jpg)
Hi Pastor Lee❤️! I don’t let my head fly off when people say we go through the tribulation. I just say look 👀 🆙!
Thank you for this. I could never figure out a rapture interpretation just by the plain reading of the text. Your work just solidifies the plain reading of scripture is the best interpretation.
1 Timothy 4:1 KJV - Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
Always use scripture to interpret scripture. Precisely what Lee has done. Even coming history for early views, we again see Lee was spot on.
@@AldoSchmedack That doesn't make sense because saved believers cannot 'depart from faith' because they are sealed with the Holy Spirit, so it's about believers who are NOT sealed with the Holy Spirit in 1 Timothy 4:1.
In 2 Thessalonians 2:3 it's about 'a departing':
2 Thessalonians 2:3
New Matthew Bible
3 Let no man deceive you by any means. For the Lord comes not unless there come a departing first and that sinful man be revealed - the son of perdition
2 Thessalonians 2:3
1599 Geneva Bible
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a departing first, and that that man of sin be disclosed, even the son of perdition.
It doesn't say 'a departing FROM FAITH' in the original manuscript, just 'a departing'.
The question is; what is this 'departing' and what is the cause of it?
I BELIEVE the rapture of the Body of Christ and after this there will be 'a falling away' (from faith) of believers in JESUS Christ, because they thought they were saved and 'rapture-ready', but they didn't believe in the right Gospel, 1 Corinthians 15:1-4.
Are you saved?
Once again a great and thorough study!! Thank you for your diligence Brother Lee! Would it be possible for you to do a video solely on the KJV only movement please? It’s so discouraging hearing Believers condemning other believers for reading other versions of the Bible that are not KJV when there are some reliable modern translations. Thank you Brother Lee! God bless you! ❤
I think we're ALL going to be surprised with how things come to pass. Everyone has an opinion & many believe only they have THE truth. Researching what men say tells us man's opinion. God will have the final say & we'll all be humbled.
Amen amen amen 🙏🏾 ❤
I agree
I think every Christian need to read what you posted here, Sherry. Then reread it. Then read it again. Then let it sink into our hearts because you are so right. All beliefs and positions re eschatology are at BEST only opinions no matter how carefully scripture is studied. Just as it was with Jesus’ first coming, God kept a sizable amount of information concerning it close t the chest, as it were. Why? Because if the Adversary had known what the full game plan was, he would never have crucified our Lord, ad that crucial part of God’s Plan would have been foiled. So, in keeping with this known pattern of God’s Plan, end time prophecy is purposely obscured, and only cryptic breadcrumbs of it are scattered throughout Scripture for us to study, try to put together, and wonder over. But we won’t know for certain how it all goes down until AFTER it all goes down. Enough has been given for us to watch for and keep ourselves prepared as best we can. But it’s beyond silly for Christians to argue so heatedly over it and claim we alone have the truth of it all. Worst yet, call those who disagree with our opinions “heretics” and fallen from the faith. Right now is the time we need to hold one another up, not tear each other down.
Now I shall step off my soapbox…..😄😆❤️
@pennyc8572 You are so right! Our father God could have made it all chrystal clear. But then we wouldn't need to exercise faith. End time prophesy is extremely captivating. I fear it has become an idol. I want to sharpen my focus on God & stop relying on the intellect of man.
Well said
Thank you pastor Lee for your dedication! We have endless other verses showing the pre trib Rapture so idk why ppl target this one verse like it’s a deal breaker if it’s not departure. Blessings and Maranatha ✝️💫🎺
I disagree, I see scripture as teaching pre-wrath see below..thoughts, I used to be pre-trib( listened to all the pre-trib teachers) for 35+ years until I looked more closely
The word for tribulation which is different from wrath is:
rom G2346; pressure (literally or figuratively): - afflicted, (-tion), anguish, burdened, persecution, tribulation, trouble.
θλίβω
thlibō
thlee'-bo
Akin to the base of G5147; to crowd (literally or figuratively): - afflict, narrow, throng, suffer tribulation, trouble.
Wrath is:
or-gay'
From G3713; properly desire (as a reaching forth or excitement of the mind), that is, (by analogy) violent passion (ire, or [justifiable] abhorrence); by implication punishment: - anger, indignation, vengeance, wrath.
oregomai
or-eg'-om-ahee
Middle voice of apparently a prolonged form of an obsolete primary (compare G3735); to stretch oneself, that is, reach out after (long for): - covet after, desire.
it really depends on when the wrath of God starts, if its the first seal ( assuming the first seal is at the beginning of the 70th week, which may or may not be true), the rapture happens then. If Gods wrath starts at the sixth seal then the rapture happens there...we know the the fifth trumpet judgement lasts 5 months ( rev 9:5) , and we know the beast is given 3.5 years ( rev 13:5-7), the witnesses are given 3.5 years ( rev 11:3) and Israel is protected for 3.5 years ( Rev 12:6,14) and the gentiles are given 3.5 years ( rev 11:2) see below, thoughts???
Also IF revelation is sequential we know the fifth trumpet judgement lasts 5 months and between the sixth and seventh trumpet there is 3.5 years, as the 2 witnesses are between the sixth and seventh trumpet
if there is not a pre-trib rapture, Christians are going to be shocked, it all depends when God's wrath happens..
In 2 thes 2, if the phrase” our gathering together to him” is the rapture then the apostasy and man of sin must occur first. This would seem to indicate the rapture won’t happen at the beginning of the 70 week of Daniel.
Phil 1: 6: being confident of this very thing, that He who has begun a good work in you complete it until the day of Jesus Christ; so in the above verse the day of Christ must be the rapture because that’s when his working in us is complete
Acts 3 21 whom heaven must receive until the times of restoration of all things, which God has spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began. Acts 2 4 "For David did not ascend into the heavens, but he says himself: ' The LORD said to my Lord, " Sit at My right hand, 35 Till I make Your enemies Your footstool." '
Joel 2:31 say the celestial signs will occur BEFORE the day of the Lord ( which is the day of wrath), this doesn;t happen until the sixth seal Rev 6:12....I would like a pre-trib rapture, but just don't see it in scripture.....If you look at the first five seals they match Matt 24 birth pangs
Rev 11
18 The nations were angry, and Your wrath has come, And the time of the dead, that they should be judged, And that You should reward Your servants the prophets and the saints, And those who fear Your name, small and great, And should destroy those who destroy the earth."both Joel
Additionally Joel says BEFORE the day of the Lord ( which is God’s wrath)
Joel 2:
31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, And the moon into blood, Before the coming of the great and awesome day of the LORD.
This doesn’t happen until the sixth seal:
Rev 6:
12 I looked when He opened the sixth seal, and behold, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became like blood.
13 And the stars of heaven fell to the earth, as a fig tree drops its late figs when it is shaken by a mighty wind.
14 Then the sky receded as a scroll when it is rolled up, and every mountain and island was moved out of its place.
15 And the kings of the earth, the great men, the rich men, the commanders, the mighty men, every slave and every free man, hid themselves in the caves and in the rocks of the mountains,
16 and said to the mountains and rocks, "Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb!
17 For the great day of His wrath has come, and who is able to stand?"
Also the sky rolling up like a scroll happens during the Day of the Lord, this doesn’t happen until the 6th seal
Isaiah 34: Judgment on the Nations
1 Come near, you nations, to hear; And heed, you people! Let the earth hear, and all that is in it, The world and all things that come forth from it.
2 For the indignation of the LORD is against all nations, And His fury against all their armies; He has utterly destroyed them, He has given them over to the slaughter.
3 Also their slain shall be thrown out; Their stench shall rise from their corpses, And the mountains shall be melted with their blood.
4 All the host of heaven shall be dissolved, And the heavens shall be rolled up like a scroll; All their host shall fall down As the leaf falls from the vine, And as fruit falling from a fig tree.
Rev 6:
14 Then the sky receded as a scroll when it is rolled up, and every mountain and island was moved out of its place.
Hebrews 9
28 so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.
Acts 3:
21 whom heaven must receive until the times of restoration of all things, which God has spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began.
Matt 13:
The Parable of the Wheat and the Tares
24 Another parable He put forth to them, saying: "The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field;
25 but while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat and went his way.
26 But when the grain had sprouted and produced a crop, then the tares also appeared.
27 So the servants of the owner came and said to him, 'Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have tares?'
28 He said to them, 'An enemy has done this.' The servants said to him, 'Do you want us then to go and gather them up?'
29 But he said, 'No, lest while you gather up the tares you also uproot the wheat with them.
30 Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, "First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn." ' "
@@larriveeman I was raised post trib and am familiar with these. About ten years ago I was fully convinced of the pre trib Rapture based on how the scriptures are interpreted. But I hope we fly soon! Blessings and Maranatha 🙏🎺
It is all wrath! Jesus opens the scrolls…Does he beat his bride
@larriveeman Note the harvest. The harvest comes at the end of the year (end of age). And the tares are left and the wheat REMOVED, your own verse shows the opposite of wrath, for the wheat is removed from the field! It goes to the barn, not left in the field. The tares are left and are burned. If the wheat was left it would be burned but it isn't. Because it is in the barn. Gone. Where is the barn? Heaven. "Where I am ye also may be". "In my Father's house".
Greek "ek" OUT OF is used all through speaking of our removal. Completely removed from. Used all through New Testament. Never is through used. Always ek out of. You have to rightly divide the word.
Maranatha ❣️ waiting and ready!
Facts… thank you for bringing them in this well researched video brother Lee
Lee is my favorite Bull Dog. 😅
Heart on fire brain engaged
Me too! ❤
Thank you, Lee, for all your hard work in helping us all to understand!
Great commentary! Should get many thinking! Lol. Thank you Lee!❤️🇨🇦prayers for any need you may have 🙏🏻🙏🏻
I recently purchased your book and I want to say that I appreciate all your research into the subject. Thank you, Lee!!!!
I would love to see a friendly debate between you & Andy Woods over this! 💯🎯 Iron sharpens Iron
I would love to see lee and Joel Richarson
Hoping Tyler changes his mind on the matter, I was so disappointed when he said he believed it meant rapture. Love you brother Tyler.
Quite a few very smart, VERY well studied pastors and Bible teachers believe ‘apostasia’ in 2 Thess 2 is a reference to the rapture.
Lee insists on presenting his case as if those who disagree are making some huge, blantant translational error, but that simply isn’t the case.
This is a reasonable in-house debate, I am disappointed that Lee approaches it with a level of certainty that is not justified, and doesn’t give sufficient consideration to the counter arguments.
I love Lee, but he very well could be wrong on this one. I wish he would at least acknowledge that as a possibility.
@@PD-iu9bnI agree.
I had hoped reason would prevail, but it seems this isn't going away soon. Thank you for the time and effort you put into researching this! GB!
Thanks for another excellent defense of the scripture.
Sometimes the truth hurts. No doubt we want to escape this crazy world.......but these final days are the ultimate test of our faith 🙏
Hi Lee. I just finished watching your video on Olive Tree about the falling away. I haven’t listened to this one yet, but I intend to soon. I just want to thank you for your excellent teachings. I really appreciate the time you put into your studies. I also am thankful that you are not sensational. Bless you!
Hey Terri! Thanks for the encouragement!
Praise God Hallelujah... ❤ for truth 🙌🏾
Well, the church does appear to be in apostasy and has been for some time. .
Right, every single church I have near me worship some "source of love" instead of 𝐉𝐄𝐒𝐔𝐒.
Saying that you follow "the source of love" may sound good, until you ask the "pastors" what they mean by this; acceptance of sin and other gospels and even other gods!!!
If I declare and show in THE HOLY BIBLE how 𝐉𝐄𝐒𝐔𝐒 IS THE ONE ALMIGHTY AND ONLY GOD; these "churches" call me a bigot!
I am a babe in THE CHRIST, a new-believer studying THE HOLY BIBLE on my own, but when I visit the churches- all I find is apostasy!
It is really scary and sad how these churches have literally forsaken their own house to cater to the demons and their doctrines is death being revealed in this world.
CHRISTIANS (those who believe in THE LORD 𝐉𝐄𝐒𝐔𝐒 THE CHRIST) seem incredibly rare nowadays, like; I know none in my country (Sweden 🇸🇪) who dosen't add their own interpretation to THE HOLY BIBLE and follow a different gospel while refusing to bow before what 𝐉𝐄𝐒𝐔𝐒 THE ALMIGHTY hath said!
I feel very alone in this society/world, and when I talk to seemingly real CHRISTIANS online- everybody shares my experience and opinion in this.
Blessings from Manila Philippines 🇵🇭 brother Lee Immanuel 🙏
Andy Woods had an exhaustive study that apostasia references the rapture of the church, and I would highly disagree with him. I agree with Lee Brainard.
Same!! Brother Lee does very thorough research! Not superficial!!
i agree. i did both woods' and lee's & lees position is the same as 8 pastors i studied the rapture from in 2021. plus lees understanding of the greek makes it even clearer. praise God for him.
Same here. I agree with Lee!
Andy Woods is 100% correct.
Finally! You moved the clock hand.
Thank you, brother Lee.
Amen brother Lee and may our Lord bless you and keep you all the days and your family in Jesus Christ Lord God Almighty holy mighty name Amen.thank You Father
God bless you for this clarification and doing for the body of Christ what some of us could never do for ourselves
Thank you for sharing. :)
Pastor Lee thanks for this God Bless you but i didn't understand perfect can you please explain more on basic language so we all can understand. Thanks again ❤🙏🙏🙏🙏
Love you Lee. God bless you
Thank you for this thorough review
Another thing to note Pastor on your phrasing of the numeric points or questions, they seem to favor your point. Can we just say it’s not a simple True or False, Yes or No. Maybe some of you leaders should have a debate, including Mondo Garcia. It would be very educational for us. We are one church, like the Trinity is and we need to come together on this verse. And this verse is very contentious as you so pointed out in your video. Maybe you should go through your book and help us make sense of the “times” these bibles were written, like Andy Woods points out that catholic bible was written to discredit Luther. I think the time period is very relevant because the King James Version came out afterward. I would love to hear both arguments done in a debate forum. I’m sure Andy Woods would be as prepared as you would to enlightening us. Thank you👏🏻
Debate? Do you not know that the word of God is not to be “debated”. It is to be read again and again and with research from Genesis to Revelation, and prayer, should be what guides us. Debates are frivolous and do NOT give answers. We discuss and share our views with loving kindness, not with rude or uncomplimentary words. I do not agree with everything a person , pastor or teacher says but I look at the Word, trusting the Holy Spirit to give me insight and discernment. And just as Brother Lee shares his views, Andy Woods shares his. And if you asked them personally I am quite confident they would say, their views are their views! Nothing to die on a hill for!
Andy Woods teaching is good too. Yes, make a video together with him and discuss it. That would be informative.
wow, so in-depth. and lee correct me if needed- it is the approach we take to researching that is of primary point- and this refers to ALL scripture in order to put the Word in full contextual meaning. And i'm sure this catholic position- if you want to call it that- is important for our discernment herein these days of deception. so hallelujah! i did study/ listen to woods' assessment and took notes in my Bible bcs it was the first time after 8 other pastors i did the same with in 2021 were in line with your present understanding of the falling away. theres are at least 4 to 5 others i just haven't studied the rapture with.
now i only have commentaries and the strongs concordance and could not have gone this deep into the layers and layers of history written to specify and see convergences of the meaning of falling away. BUT never have i heard such specificity. moreover we see the apostasy abounding like
mad ~ the 2020 lie, oct 7th black sabbath replacement theologies resting their ugly heads, and recently with erupting dominion/ new charismatic pentecostal / amillennial doctrines of demons. it's a wild ride down here! maranatha brethren 🎬
1st time I heard the apostasia = rapture argument, It did not sound right. (I heard from this pastor who heard from this pastor). So I looked up the word in Greek and apostasia and every root of that word...always used in a negative fashion, such as divorce. The best way to support Premillennialism is to come against our poor arguments.
There are incredible scholars who are extremely well respected, who hold to and brilliantly defend the departure interpretation of 2 Thess 2:3. It is very unfortunate that you feel the need to mischaracterise them by saying they bamboozle people through slick arguments. Dr Andy Woods teaching on this topic is a far cry from a bamboozle or a slick argument. After listening to it, you still may not agree but you will for sure see why it is a legit interpretation. It's bad enough when fellow believers mischaracterise the pre-trib camp but when its own does, it seems to be very counter-productive. With that being said I want to thank you for all your hard work and the great content you provide!
Amen! Well said. I still think Andy Woods argument makes better sense.
I would hesitate to discount biblical scholars like Arnold Fruchtenbaum, Thomas Ice, Andy Woods, et.al., who hold to the departure meaning of "apostasia" as being proponents of poor exegesis and "sham theology". They hold their views based on their study which, based on their history, is substantial.
@@TheRDFloyd agree!
Well said, I think Andy Woods makes a good argument for the rapture. It’s not something we should argue about however, or call people bamboozled, it’s not a salvation issue.
Compare with this then...
1 Timothy 4:1 KJV - Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
Indeed it is apostasy. There is NO reference anywhere to departure in 2 Thes. And yes I am pre-trib. If you read the original notes by these men on early English translations, they frankly PLAINLY tell you from the faith.
To go against the written word when clear is allegorizing scripture and not rightly dividing. I also have seen original copies of some of these Bibles. Some are by request only, some in private hands.
It simply means from faith not removal. New Testament isnclear on it as well as Old. Can't even get more clear.
Thanks, Lee!!
I lean towards Lee's view on this but this should never cause division between believers. Both Lee and Dr. Andy Woods are solid Biblical scholars as far as I am concerned.. and in my humble opinion, these are the folks that are needed more at these "prophecy conferences" going on these days so students of prophecy can actually learn something.
They are both good teachers, however on the rapture timing I see the bible teaching pre-wrath, but no cause to be mean or ungodly
@@larriveeman Absolutely friend, we can always politely disagree on non- salvation issues.
Glad you addressed this, brother. I keep seeing people use this argument, and I still love them...but it just makes the pretrib position an easy target for angry brothers who want to attack the body of Christ. Maybe I'm biased, but I find the objections to the pretrib position to be more often than not filled with lots of bile. It's one thing if they feel convicted to rebuke actual apostasy, it's another thing if they want to namecall, and question the salvation status of those who have the pretrib stance.
Agreed!
Thank you for your input and teachings. Much appreciated. As a non English (Afrikaans) speaking person from South Africa, which English translation should I buy to read a good and easy, understandable Bible for studying the Word in English? (without getting involved in all kinds of differences and conspiracies please) Thank you.
If you use the NKJV in combination with either the NASB or the ESV, you will do well. I use all three, plus the KJV.
Thank you! @@Soothkeep
Apostasy, apostasia, apostate, pretty simple to me. Falling away or departing from the faith.
The problem is you are mis quoting this teaching. It is not taught that ALL version in claim 1 and 2 . This theory teaches MANY
cant understand
If one looks at Timothy it becomes plain that apostasy, falling away, is what is being set forth here. This seems to be an instance of cherry picking meanings and ignoring context.
Pastor Lee, Andy Woods has a very strong point for rapture too. I understand you have a book, and you make a good argument as well. However, the context of the passages make Andy Woods point, along with his extensive research do prove a very well thought out argument. Rapture first, son of perdition 2nd and Tribulation third is what we all agree on. And the Thessalonians thought they had been left behind. And since the beginning of time falling away from truth has always been happening. Remnant church throughout the ages. I am amazed how quickly you are deserting the One who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel Galatians 6:1. Also, in terms of a gap period between the rapture and the appearing of antchrist, doesn’t make sense. They always strike while the Iron is hot and when have we known satan to not let a good crises go to waste.
Lee isn't saying there isn't a rapture, he's simply stating that 2 Thessalonians 2:3, the falling away, isn't referencing the rapture.
And the short gap theory absolutely makes sense, much more than zero gap my friend.
Careful who you are saying is falling away from their faith before doing your own independent research.
🙏✝️🙏
Evidently,,you aren’t as good spirited as is required when it comes to disagreement about non salvation issues. Not very nice to accuse Lee of deserting Christ! Not very Christ like at all. You could have just stated what you thought, as many do, without the rude accusation.
andy woods is too invested in the pre-trib rapture, while in other matters he is a fine teacher, in the rapture timing he is wrong as is Lee, but time will tell
let's not go to that low level of accusation. shame. repent.
1 Timothy 4:1 KJV - Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
How is that in support of Lee? Use scripture to back up scripture and you will find the Bible itself defends it is from faith not the rapture and yes I am pre-trib. We do NOT see a falling away like has happened in modern times since 1960's. Church has grown until now under persecution. Only in modern times did it ever fall away. Only now people refuse to even hear anything about Christianity. You can plainly see 1 Timothy 4:1 is speaking of faith not physical presecne. Can't be much clearer to be honest. Best support of apostosia has to come from scripture, and there ya go. It isn't the only verse on it in end times either.
Also Lee isn't of a different Gospel. You don't seem to even know what the gospel specifically is. The Gospel is Jesus died, was buried and rose again innour place. Nothing more or less. 1 Cor 15. That is the gospel. Not everything in scripture is "the gospel".
I myself have looked DEEP into these versions too (including asking friends with original copies of them) and never saw the rapture in view here either despite being pre-trib. Some have argued that the word apostosia/apostosy is even used differently today then it was back then. But it just simply is not. There is no evidence of it. Besides, compare it with a clear passage like 1 Timothy 4:1 and you will see it is clearly talking about a societal turning away from the written word of Yeshua. That said, it doesn't change the fact there indeed is a rapture, and it is indeed a pre-trib. So I concur!
me too in the sense that iv e studied the rapture with 9 pastors and lee also, and i did the full side with woods- he's the only one of 9 that has this position. apostasy aboundsz and as lee said, the great apostasy will be at the decisive hand of the ac. Amen. and marantha
@@fabbrofamily7038This verse backs up Lee plain as day. And there is no better source then the Bible itself on interpretation:
1 Timothy 4:1 KJV - Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
Amen with what you said! Clearly there is a pre-trib but it is disingenuous to make everything fit when it isn't all on the rapture. I subscribe to pre-trib as well. So does Lee. But 2 Thes wasn't about it here. In fact it is a warning to the raptured bride we would see much evil before we go. I like Andy but he is wrong on a few issues, and he won't change for anything, this topics is one. I do highly respect him as a teacher. I think sometimes we long for things so much we want to see all things as rapture. I am most guilty of it. I get that, I am super anxious too. I just want to be home!
Bless you and soon we will be home regardless! ❤
question remains- departure of what???
departure from the faith, it is also stated in 1 tim 4:1
Robert Breaker teaches that 'a falling away' in 2 Thess. 2:3 will be the result of the rapture, so 'departing' in the Geneva Bible is the rapture of the Body of Christ which will result into a 'falling away' among unsaved people, because saved people cannot fall away from faith.
"Departing" in the Geneva Bible, if we let that venerable book speak for itself, means falling away. Please see the following introductions, prefaces, and marginal notes from the Geneva Bible. Those who believe the early English Bibles used "departure" in the sense of the rapture are living in a fantasy.
Geneva Bible (1560 and 1569) - The introduction to Second Thessalonians.
“Paul … writeth unto them and exhorteth them to pacience and other frutes of faith, neither to be moued with that vaine opinion of suche as taught that the comming of Christ was at hand, forasmuche as before that day there shulde be a falling away from true religion, even by a great parte of the worlde, and that Antichrist shulde reigne in the Temple of God.”
The Geneva NT (1557) - The preface to the second chapter of Second Thessalonians.
“He sheweth them that the day of the Lord shall not come tyl the departing from the faith come fyrst, and the kyngdome of Antechrist.”
The Geneva Bible (1560, 1569) - The preface to the second chapter of Second Thessalonians.
“He sheweth them that the day of the Lord shal not come, til the departing from the faith come first, And the kingdome of Antichrist. And therefore he exhorteth them not to be deceaued, but to stand stedfast in the things that he hathe taught them.”
The Geneva/Thomson NT (1595) (aka Beza NT) - The preface to the second chapter of Second Thessalonians.
“He sheweth that the day of the Lord shall not come, till there be a departure from the faith, and that Antichrist be reveiled, whose destruction he fitteth out, and thereupon exhorteth to constauncie.”
Geneva Bible (1560) - The marginal note reads, “A wonderful departing of the moste parte from the faith.”
@@Soothkeep The translators (ex-Catholics) of the Geneva Bible knew nothing about the pre-tribulation-rapture, and that made sense because they lived in a time when it did not yet apply and that also applies to the earlier and later translations of the Bible.
Paul certainly knew about it because it had been revealed to him by the Lord JESUS, but he too could not have known that the pre-trib rapture would occur far in the future from his perspective.
However, the Jesuits DID know about the pre-trib rapture and that became their doctrine of 'futurism' with the aim of turning the attention away from the Pope and onto a 'mysterious man' who would appear on the world stage in the end times as the Antichrist, while all reformers knew that the Papacy is the Antichrist by default.
'a departure from the faith' is simply an interpretation because that is not stated in the original text.
The pre-trib rapture MUST take place or the unfulfilled prophecies regarding Israel and the world cannot be fulfilled that are NOT meant for The Body of Christ.
The entire book of Revelation is NOT addressed to the saved members of The Body of Christ.
I would like you see you do the same study for the Greek word Aion/Aionios which is miss translated as eternal and not pertaining to an Age like it was in Ancient Greek that was used 2000 years ago.
I enjoy watching your videos and find them informative and hopeful. But all of the resources sighted by you were from other men throughout history. Dr. Andy Woods gives a presentation on this subject and his understanding of the word apostasia in the “context” of 2 Thess, is more compelling than yours.
Primary point is there have been departures from the faith throughout history and even in modern history when you consider how Universities like Harvard and others who’s charters compelled Bible knowledge and faith, have become secular and humanistic.
The context of 2 Thessalonians 1 and 2 is not the rapture, but the day of the Lord, in the sense of the dawning of that day (the tribulation) and the full arrival of that day (the second coming). The rapture is mentioned in 2:1 as a reminder that the church is going up prior to the day of the Lord and won't see that day. Apostasia in verse 3 is a reference to the apostasy associated with the antichrist during the tribulation, so trying to fend off the apostasy argument with church age arguments is evading the point.
There is hypocrisy in the argument about citing other men rather than the context. If this is legit, why do men ever refer to lexicons for the meaning of words? We can just throw our lexicons out. Besides, Andy referred to remote context when he cited Liddell & Scott on the meaning of apostasia. Why was it okay for him to point to a reference from 400 years after the NT in an unrelated field and not okay for me to make an exhaustive examination of Koine usage? Why do men raise this remote context argument? Because they know that the meaning they are imposing on apostasia cannot be demonstrated from anywhere in Koine history because it never existed. This is ad hoc exegesis, not historical-grammatical exegesis.
@@Soothkeep although I'm pre-wrath, you are correct on this particular point and other then the rapture timing I agree with you on everything else, keep up the good work
Go in green and read and reread. Develop some of your own hypothesis and interpretations before you are forced to accept the mainstream narratives. Learn all you can from every angle and be amazed. The Word Of God Is Our Light In This Dark World.
Another clue: many believers in JESUS believe in the pre-trib-rapture but they are NOT SAVED by the RIGHT Gospel, 1 Corinthians 15:1-4.
There will be a falling away among them after the rapture has happened and they're still on earth.
The translators (ex-Catholics) of the Geneva Bible knew nothing about the pre-tribulation-rapture, and that made sense because they lived in a time when it did not yet apply and that also applies to the earlier and later translations of the Bible.
Paul certainly knew about it because it had been revealed to him by the Lord JESUS, but he too could not have known that the pre-trib rapture would occur far in the future from his perspective.
However, the Jesuits DID know about the pre-trib rapture and that became their doctrine of 'futurism' with the aim of turning the attention away from the Pope and onto a 'mysterious man' who would appear on the world stage in the end times as the Antichrist, while all reformers knew that the Papacy is the Antichrist by default.
'a departure from the faith' is simply an interpretation because that is not stated in the original text.
The pre-trib rapture MUST take place or the unfulfilled prophecies regarding Israel and the world cannot be fulfilled that are NOT meant for The Body of Christ.
The entire book of Revelation is NOT addressed to the saved members of The Body of Christ.
I absolutely believe in and teach the pretrib rapture. But the interpretation of apostasia is a different issue entirely than whether or not the pretrib rapture is true.
The theory that apostasia = departure in the sense of physical departure is just a theory. I have examined all 283 extant instances of this Greek word on the TLG website in context, from the first usage around 250 BC to AD 500. All these passages I present in the appendices in my book on the subject, with an English translation (about 40% of the time I had to execute my own as none was available). Apostasia was never once used for physical departure. It had a small handful of instances where it was used in scientific or medical or legal senses that have nothing to do with the 2 Thess. 2:3 controversy. The rest of the time it was either religious apostasy (90%) or political rebellion (10%).
@@Soothkeep Evangelist and teacher Robert Breaker, who's a KJV-onlyist, believes 'a falling away' will be the result of the rapture, so whether it is 'a falling away' or 'departing/departure' it has to do with the rapture, because many believers believe in the rapture but they are not saved by the right gospel, 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, and they will be deeply disappointed when it turns out that they have been left behind and many of them will fall away from the faith.
🤔 It makes me wonder if the falling away is a reference to brotherly love…after all, the greatest commandments Jesus called us to follow were about love not truth…
1 Timothy 4:1 KJV - Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
I think it speaks of some of the apostosia we see today. One prime example is "Happy unions" and similar. Not the only one though. Cross it with Romans 1. Even supporting of such is forbidden in the last verse in Romans 1. Pleasure means to be in support of in the Greek. Similar ideas to this false one which is creeping into "churches", is what they speak of. Certainly not the only though. And through it, yes brotherly love will also cease because of differences in views.
foolish hearts grow dark yes, but that is not what's being discussed in their scripture. that's Romans 1
Amen! Psalm 101: 3 I will set nothing wicked before my eyes; I hate the work of those who fall away; it shall not cling to me.
How does a person do his own research though, almost everything is on the internet and not exactly able to afford to go grab hard original copies
i study with commentaries - yes, books. it's the best way.
oh yeah and the bible book stores usually have a used section. also, thrift stores OFTEN have valuable. resources --- highly recommended especially since they predict a cyber attack(s) this year!!!
Unrelated to this topic but i just had to advise news stated first neuralink brain implant completed January 31 2024 😮😮😮😮😮😮😮
The best teacher you have is Christ in you
Acts 15:28-29 ( Pauls telling the gentile believers what there reasonable service is)
ESV - 28 For it has seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay on you no greater burden than these requirements:
29 That you abstain from what has been sacrificed to idols, and from blood, and from what has been strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well. Farewell.
1 John 2:27
The Holy Spirit Teaches You
But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
Yup- every believer has the same measure of the Holy Spirit that any prophecy teacher has. Some are called to teach , some aren’t. But there are no “ super Christian’s”
SO you don't believe in the pre trib rapture of the church?
Yes, Lee does believe in the pre-trib rapture of the Church & has done countless videos on it
I don't anymore, I'm pre-wrath, it depends on when the wrath of God starts
@@larriveemanit’s obvious in the Bible that Gods wrath start with JESUS opening the first seal.
Noah was spared, Lot was spared, Rehab was spared and the list goes on. Behold the storm of the Lord! Wrath has gone forth, a whirling tempest; it will burst upon the head of the wicked. (Jeremiah 30:23)
The Lord is a jealous and avenging God; the Lord is avenging and wrathful; the Lord takes vengeance on his adversaries and keeps wrath for his enemies. (Nahum 1:2)
For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. (Romans 1:18)
From his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations, and he will rule them with a rod of iron. He will tread the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God the Almighty. (Revelation 19:15)
Israelites were spared from God’s plagues on the Egyptians and were given a promised land. Albeit thru battles God fought for them.
When Paul wrote 2 Thess. 2:3 there were no Jesuits who are against the Protestant reformation....but Satan already existed and he HATES the rapture of the Body of Christ. Believe whatever makes you happy.
To me departing = rapture
I do not consult my happiness or my fear for what I believe. I consult the word of God, the facts of history, and the facts of grammar. Superstitions I avoid like the plague. Please examine the historical facts on the Geneva Bible.
@@Soothkeep
A lot of people believe based on their interpretation of the Bible that the earth is a sphere and a spinning globe in space, and others believe on their interpretation of that same Bible that the earth is stationary and flat and round with a dome shaped firmament.
There are a lot of people who believe in the pre-tribulation-rapture, seven years before the Second Coming of the Lord JESUS Christ, based on their interpretation of the Bible and there are those who don't believe that, based on that same Bible, and they believe they have to go through the tribulation, aka the Time of Jacob's Trouble.
I know a lot about the Geneva Bible and I prefer this translation in English, though I'm Dutch, but I also know that the translators of the Geneva Bible made a lot of mistakes in their footnotes because they didn't discern the difference between Israel and the Body of Christ.
This is from someone I learned a lot from:
Rightly dividing the Word is the goal of this article, and it is an indispensable key to proper understanding of the Bible. The abundance of scriptural evidence detailed in the third section makes it very clear that Revelation is doctrine for Israel, which was written to Jews who believed in Jesus Christ, by an apostle of the circumcision, for direct application in the prophetic "kingdom" dispensation. At the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple, God placed that dispensation in abeyance in 70 AD, to be resumed in the future tribulation.
The entire book of Revelation, including chapters 1-3, is deeply rooted in Old Testament prophecy. It is doctrinally aligned with the epistles of Peter, James, John, and Jude, all of whom were apostles of the circumcision, as well as to the books of Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Hebrews, and the Old Testament.
The dispensation of grace in which we now live is revealed in Romans through Philemon, our Apostle Paul's letters to the Gentiles, with Acts being the book of transition between the two dispensations.
Source: The Seven Churches of Revelation
Matthew McGee
The Body of Christ is not appointed to God's wrath so they don't have to go through the Great Tribulation, but more importantly: the rest of the prophetic word can't be fulfilled if the Body of Christ is still on earth with the indwelling Holy Spirit, who is the Restrainer.
The prophetic wordt is for Israel and the world and not about the Body of Christ.
PS: I believe the earth is round and flat with a dome shaped firmament and that 'nukes' don't exist and that there has never been a pandemic and that the jabs are the precursor to the Mark of the Beast and that the Pope is the Antichrist by default, because every Pope is the disguised Luciferian Roman emperor.
Are you saved by THE Gospel, 1 Corinthians 15:1-4?
Daarom zegt Jezus in openbaring 3 tegen filadelphia, houd vast wat gij hebt opdat niemand uw kroon neme.
Mondo the Lord bless him but he is wrong on this talking of Israel no no why would it be Israel when they already committed Apostasy not excepting Jesus as the Anointed One or the Messiah!
Can you speak without the hand gestures please? The content is so marvelous. Thank you!
Some people just speak with their hands. I tend to do this too
Most ppl use hand gestures. Totally normal
You can't please everybody! Don't watch, just listen if it stresses you out!! I love his enthusiasm and animation!!!❤❤❤❤ We all have LIBERTY IN CHRIST!!!😅😅😂😂❤😊
I love Lee's hand gestures!
Why criticize people's methods of speech?