Super Dimension Fortress Macross | Retcon_404 (10k Special)
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- Опубликовано: 2 окт 2024
- Released by Nue animation in 1982 Super Dimension Fortress Macross is a lynchpin entry in the saga of 80's mecha anime. A cultural touchstone, Macross would go on to spawn it's own sequels, as well as being the basis of the popular Robotech franchise. Let's take a look at the first entry in the storied history of the Macross universe, Super Dimension Fortress Macross.
-- THIS VIDEO CONTAINS MAJOR SPOILER FOR MACROSS --
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Oh, and I don't think we can note Millia's "tradwife" transformation without noting that she still has no idea how to do anything but fight. Max, being an all around genius, has to be the house-husband because of course he can do all that stuff also. Is there anything Max can't do? No. There is not. Eff Max for not bringing everyone back from the dead. He could have done that. He chose not to.
My favorite thing that Milia does is throw her baby overhand across a room. it's amazing
@@Retcon404 There's a couple ridiculous Milia moments, like when they get married and then an alarm goes off right after Max tries to run off to fight and she points out they literally just vowed to stay together till death so she's going with him. Or how the master plan for taking over the automated factory basically involved her flying in blasting pop music, holding her baby over her head and saying "look what I made!"
@@Retcon404 (he-ka-ru)
@@thedemon56 hick, are you?
Spoiler for Macross 7 (you should totally do Macross 7!) One thing Max can't do is keep a relationship together...
if I'm not mistaken, Fokker's custom pattern/emblem are a reference to the real VFA-103 Squadron aka Jolly Roger. It's even more on the nose since the aircraft in Macross are obviously based on the F-14, which the Jolly Rogers flew.
The evolution of the Variable Fighter line and its mechanical technology is frankly half the appeal of Macross as a franchise. The creators _really care_ about making these mecha look and feel interesting and they're... basically just military planes but wackier. It's impressive.
VFA-84 F-14 Tomcat squadron was the one that inspired Fokker's (yes I use the german name of plane manufacturers not Focker that I think is anime accurate, but I think that is the name that inspired the writers) livery. I also think that Tomcats heavily inspired the Valkyries. They (VFA-84) were disbanded in 1995 and then the VFA-103, a F-18 Hornet squadron took their insignia. I guess that my post only lacks me saying "well actually..." ;)
The movie "Do you remember love" heavily fixes Hikaru's behavior in the love triangle
I only know the movie, have it on DVD somewhere, watched a couple of episodes, though not all of it, yet, but that movie is just a movie in that timeline.
It's like us warching a WW2 movie, based on true events, but fictionalised. So it's not canon, so to speak.
Still good though.
@@eldritchmorgasm4018 the thing with Macross is, nothing is canon yet everything is canon. All of the series (tv series, movies, etc) is practically like your analogy, some sort of historical retelling based on an event that happened. The franchise proceeds as if things from movie B has happened, yet at the same time it kept elements from series A that we never saw in movie B; the series is just weird like that.
@@shira_yone So it's kinda like with WH40K!?
They make shit up as they move along, and when a continuation comes around the corner, it's up to the fans if it's canon or not, because everyone's doing their own thing.
Example, though different franchise, Ridley Scott directed "Alien", fucking hates "Aliens", especialy the concept of the queen, directs the prequels, does everything he can to ignore other movies he wasn't involved with.
In general, it's a very lazy way of handling a franchise.
At least DC & Marvel have different realities/continuities to do things different, as in style & tone.
@@eldritchmorgasm4018 not exactly, it's more akin to Legend of Zelda where BoTW treats as if all the previous games happened, despite events that probably contradicts each other or the fact that all the events truly happened in the same timeline makes zero sense.
@@shira_yone 🤔Strange... very strange indeed
There's one scene from the epilogue that I always remember. It's a Zentradi asking if the Pilot next to him can light up his Cigar and he does, with his gun.
It portrayed so much camaraderie and trust in just a couple of seconds.
32:26 Macross actually had a very turbulent production, and the reason these episodes feels off is because the last episodes were stretched for more run time because toy sales were going through the roof, lol.
yeah my understanding is that it was originally considered a failure and they even had episodes cut. THEN BOOM! toy sales through the roof. Cut?!? who said cut!?! what do you mean the story is over?
@@Lazrael32your understanding is wrong. It was a hit and the studio wanted more episodes.
@@paulheap1982 big west did not have faith in the series and cut the amount of episodes. After it was successful and toys were flying off the shelf they raised the episodes. But yes it was successful.
No wonder the three spies were hocking "Hakakiri" toys in that one episode.
@@Lazrael32episode cut is because difficulty in drawing the mech/fight
"... and her hair looks like cinnamon buns." Bro. When my brother and I would watch Robotech as kids, we'd get hungry everytime because of Misa's (or Lisa as she was called in the Robotech version) hair. Mostly because one of our grandmothers favorite things to bake was cinnamon buns.
A fun little memory from years long gone.
"Minmay grates on my nerves"
You are far, FAR from alone in that, my man. She's much more of an annoying child in the show, but it's the Do You Remember Love? movie that has her 'crowning' moment of bratitude, immediately followed by Hikaru administering a completely justified slap.
The entire anime club I saw the movie at back in the 90s stood up and cheered when it happened.
But compare her antics with idol with the same level.of fame, she's pretty decent.
@@nurlindafsihotang49 A good point, that.
It’s not a coincidence that the laws of anime #17 Law of Transient Romantic Unreliability: Minmei is a bimbo
has been around since the late 80’s/early 90’s lol. The world knows she’s insufferable
Her character was written to be frustrating, but I really think Robotech poisoned the well and made her worse, and the Robotech novelization made her just terrible. So all the people who only knew Macross from Robotech only saw Minmay as this selfish, unaware, unrelatable bratty girl only got a badly filtered version of the character.
I've been arguing this opinion since the 1990s, so I'm kind of invested in it lol, but when you line up the scenes and dialogue side-by-side, you get two similar-but-different pictures.
Glad I left the Macross fandom😂😂😂. There were BETTER anime
@Retcon_404 : Fun fact there is line used in Kaifun's introductory episode that he is not a cousin by blood relation. He is only a cousin cause one of his parent's remarried into Minmay's family. So even those "silly anime" writers knew that blood incest was wrong. lol
and then Robotech made Kaifun her brother haha. oopsie
edit: I think, I haven't seen robotech yet but that is what I have been told.
@@Retcon404 Hmm I think that person was confusing one of 2 possible things. 1. In the movie Macross DYRL Kaifun *is actually Minmay's brother.* 2. Robotech did introduce Minmay's young cousin as Kaifun's little brother. The young cousin I refer to is the kid that looks like "Dennis the Menace" cause he always wears those jean overalls with the UN Spacey Logo on them.
@@Retcon404he's still her cousin in Robotech.
I defend Macross and its writing every time I can, but I do fault the writers for not explaining this in the anime itself. You can only learn this through outside sources, and as a Macross and American comics fan, I find having to do "homework" annoying. It almost doesn't count if not in the movie/show/comic/etc. itself.
Macross is great. If you want a follow up to Max and Miria, you'll want to watch Macross 7 which is referenced both in Frontier and Delta. If you want more of Roy, Macross Zero is where you want to go and it has connections to Frontier. If you want the rogue sequel that became an alternate timeline, check out Macross 2. If you want the very best of the 90s, watch Macross Plus.
Here's a timeline for your reference:
Macross Zero > SDF Macross > Macross Plus > Macross 7 > Macross Frontier > Macross 30 (this is a video game btw) > Macross Delta *(Most of the shows are sequels of each other save for Zero which is a prequel and Plus which is a side story.)
So, you said you wouldn't read a comment defending the whole "marry your cousin thing", I'm not defending it (I'm guessing lots of folks have done that already based on what you've said; I'm not too keen on it either but it's worth knowing about) but informing you that it is legal in japan (among other places). It's allowed in a "literally no other choice to keep the bloodline alive" context. Also, scientifically, such a thing happening only once in a long while won't wreck your gene pool. You'd have to do it as frequently as the hapsburgs to really do damage which is exactly the situation everyone wants to avoid in the first place.
Still "keep the bloodline alive" just sounds like an ego thing
Macross and Escaflowne share a creator, Shoji Kawamori. As time went by, Kawamori's mecha anime began to take in more and more mystical fantasy elements. Easy to see in Escaflowne but also check out Genesis of Aquarion (series and OVA), Aquarion EVOL, and Nobunaga the Fool. Nobunaga has some pacing problems though.
On behalf of all US-based Macross lovers, I'll get it out of the way: Dammit Harmony Gold! 🤬
I _loved_ Robotech growing up. I still do. But the world is big enough for both Robotech and Macross to exist! And Macross … I also absolutely adore Macross… (Actually, I love all three entries in the Super Dimension series, though I'm totally not surprise that they went for Genesis Climber Mospeada instead of Super Dimension Century Orguss for the third entry. Orguss just would not have fit.
All of these things need to finally get the love they haven't had all these years … true classics!
That said … my advice is DON'T try to compare Robotech to Macross too much. Not because rabid fanboyism but because it can't be fairly done. Robotech had to basically nerf the bits of Macross that were a problem and make a few changes to stitch Southern Cross in. And what followed likewise had to be edited for cohesion and BS&P. My advice is to enjoy Robotech for what it is, not for the source material it never could've been. It's still a good show, just aimed at a younger audience in a slightly simpler time.
I have skimmed some scenes of Robotech and while it's certainly aged, I give it props for keeping dark moments like the Zentradi bombarding Earth. There were dubs that came out after Robotech that chickened out with moments like dark than humanity nearly being wiped out by aliens.
Orguss might have worked in place of Southern Cross but yeah the splicing that was done worked surprisingly well, finally finding Orguss over a decade ago and struggling to get all the episodes was annoying AF, quite common to only find the dubbed part of the series.
Well, since you tackled the series you definitely need to do a video about the theatrical retelling Macross: Do You Remember Love. To me it is the absolute pinnacle of the entire franchise with mind blowing animation that holds up to this day.
Hell yeah DYRL was epic and ahead of its time in terms of quality in animation. All sequel shows for Macross take the aesthetics of that movie and build on it too. Macross Frontier is my favorite.
@@elhijueputa8423 in Japan they had Star Wars lines at all the theaters showing it. That tells you something special is happening!
A couple years back I found the DYRL perfect addition DVD with musical soundtrack as a bonus second disc. Up until then I'd only possessed this movie in the form of various bootleg fan subs.
As soon as I watched it again I was instantly transported back 20 years to college and was more than a little Misty eyed while watching.
@@elhijueputa8423 I love Macross Frontier! I even went and saw the two Frontier movies in the theater. It was so awesome to see Macross on a big screen.
@@kevinkorenke3569 That DVD sounds awesome. I bought a well produced Bluray bootleg of Do You Remember Love. It is pretty much a straight rip from the official japanese release. That movie gets at least a yearly viewing for me. It brings back so many good memories.
Hikaru's reaction to his first glimpse of the T'sentraedi is classic. A thirty foot tall giant climbs out of a Regult battle pod, removes his helmet and Hikaru shuts down. He can't process what he's seen.
So, there was this general pattern that the protagonist ends up with the one in the first episode, which would be Minmay, except ... technically Hikaru first talked to Misa. It was just a very brief traffic control permission, but then later on ... during that crazy fever dream episode ... That first tiny interaction was replayed, except Misa adds in "anta" ("Dear") a few times in there. It's a pretty jarring addition, but I was like WOAH YES!
Yeah, at that point, I was already all in on the Hikaru/Misa ship, but that really cemented my expectation that they were going with that.
Macross is unironically one of the greatest stories humanity has ever told. It’s legit art. It also kicks ass in its Robotech form.
Macross is a classic space opera which I'll probably always love. But the Mospeada segment of Robotech, even its original anime, is my fave of those three stories. Just a great sci-fi story
Quite cheesy, but their heart was in the right place
Don't worry, Kaifun has a rather ignominious fate - he winds up managing a band who only does English-language covers of Fire Bomber's songs, and apparently Fire Bomber are constantly trying to get the band shut down but Kaifun keeps dodging their lawyers. And this is only related in the booklet that comes with one of the Macross 7 soundtrack CDs that contains the aforementioned english-language covers of the songs.
Despite its flaws in the last few episodes, I absolutely love SDF Macross and it's still my favorite one. DYRL is an absolute must for a watch. Thank you so much for covering it!
Edit: Also in extra material, Hikaru not only marries Misa but he also has a child with her named Miku. They are still close friends with Minmay.
Another series to cover is Captain Harlock. More space pirate goodness. Also need an explanation on why a space pirate flies an ME 262 eventually
I like the fact that Hikaru not only takes over being the ace that Roy was, but he becomes the Amuro of the show. Where when you see him in anything, he is this insane pilot. You mentioned how Roy you felt safe when he was around, but when Hikaru is around later on it is like having a whole defense fortress around you. He really comes into his own. And if I remember correctly he uses Roy’s Valkyrie and even adopts his color scheme.
One of the things I always like about it is that while Hikaru is a good pilot and the leader, he is not the best pilot in the series. That goes to Max.
@@Mitheledh Attack Max or Miriya... please.... If one of them does not kill you, the other one will like a cold blade to the knife
The novelization makes much more sense. The animations are great to inform your imagination but the novelization explains everything so much Better. Rick and Lisa have kids and it’s only then Minnie realizes what she missed out on by turning Rick away, cause she did have feelings for him but just assumed he would always be there waiting when the fame died. Protoculture is a power source but the Zentradi are confused by emotions and think emotions and magic from movies are extensions of the protoculture power source because the protoculture has been kept a mystery to them to keep them slaves, and they need it to get their freedom from the Masters. It’s a great bit of science fiction. Minmei is still annoying but her song serve as a stand in for the feelings of the average citizen caught in the conflict. Love it! Love the animations too!
This is true, but the novels change a few things that aren't really that way in the anime. I'm not suggesting it wasn't good storytelling by Jack McKinney, but it's Robotech (which I fell in love with as a child) not SDF Macross.
The definition of Protoculture. The "thinking caps". The little "Men and the Mecha" excerpts. Those were actually very good ways of dealing with the deficiencies of the anime.
I think the issue is that in the US, we much prefer/need stories completely told and nicely packaged. Any anime fan knows this just isn't a reality in anime. There are fantastic animes that never get completed. Even great OVAs that really could use a couple of additional installments, but they'll never happen. Kinda unfortunate.
Fun thing about SEED being connected to Macross is that Sleggar inspired Fokker who inspired Mwu La Flaga.
Dude the only thing I can say is keep up the great work and if you want to do something that's not as mentally exhausting, we're all down for it. I mean you already done a couple videos where you just gave your opinion. But I get it, what you're doing is labor intensive, but we feel the love that comes from it. I loved this video. One of my favorite series is Macross, and was happy it was given the love it deserves. Thank you! I enjoy the "do you remember love?" movie a lot more. In my opinion, it perfectly condenses the series into a 2 hour movie. Thank you again for your awesome work!!!
Wow thanks man, this is very much appreciated. Thank you for the kind words.
This isn’t Gundam Seed…
jk do what you want, man!
Had me rolling when talking about Millia. Make sure you check out Macross Plus, i have only seen the movie version but I loved it.
Would be curious to hear your take having seen the movie first. Universally, those of us that have seen the episodes first prefer those.
@@fiveoctaves I can’t really give you a take, I haven’t seen the movie since I left the dvd in a tv I got rid of when moving. Sad day. I am waiting for a new blu ray version now that it got a theatrical release in the states. Also I haven’t seen the episode version so I guess I should give them a watch
Dude, hell yes! I’ve been mainlining your videos ever since I came across your channel about a month ago (via finding one of your Gundam vids in a search) and they just keep getting better and better. Thank you so much for all the time and effort you put into making these, they’re awesome, and super helpful in certain cases. The reason I found your channel in the first place was that I was looking for a Gundam UC recap before sitting down to watch Hathaway for the first time and, rather surprisingly, it was really hard to find a decently-produced one that wasn’t 90% review as opposed to retrospective.
So, seriously, awesome work, and keep ‘em coming! I can’t wait to see what else you decide to cover, and how your channel continued to grow and progress. The quality and rate at which you produce content is a genuine inspiration, and even though my channel is but a starving infant by comparison, you really give me something to aspire towards. All the best : )
Liked purely for the use of mainlining, Godspeed you beautiful sob
21:47 on the topic of Minmay's songs, In robotech, she sings an even more grating song called "my time to be a star", good luck hearing that one repeatedly if you check out Harmony Gold's Frankenstein lmao
Granted but she also has Touch and Go and We Will Win which aren’t too bad
And it's THE ONLY song she does BC they could only afford Reba West to do one song.... ugh...
Originally Macross was going to end at the big battle. When it was in production they originally thought it wouldn’t be a hit so they tried compressing the story which is why Max and Milia got married so quick. But then they realized it was a huge hit so they were asked to extend it hence the last 8 episodes.
Now that I just saw Char’s Counterattack last night, it looks like I should check out Macross.
Once you finish doing EVERYTHING mecha,
do MEGAS XLR last!
Cant believe Macross (or Robotech as my VHS tape titled it) was the first anime I ever watched as a little kid. My love for mecha started very early on.
Retcon, you just don't get it. The primary appeal of marrying your cousin is that you get to kiss them. Kissing your cousin! Shame on you for your American prejudice I'm from Arkansas by the way
Having only watched Robotech and seeing this as comparison.
It's the same picture. Like. I'm sure there's differences but the meats all there.
I hated this movie. For one very simple reason: my favorite character is Captain Global and he was reduced to only have 10 speaking lines. I counted.
I'm gonna age myself, I watched Robotech back in '85 on syndication. For some reason back then they only showed Macross & Southern Cross.
If you think Harmony Holds bastardized Macross? You should of seen what Orion did to Do You Remember Love movie?
You mean clash of the bionoides
I remember that. But I also remember when we got the Invid arc too … Thought those bikes were the coolest mechs back in the day, too…
@@DubbleOboyz YES! I just remember it's cuts some of the beginning & just starts on the Macross silhouette leading in to a battle. Then ends with Hikaru blasting the guy in the face & the main capital ship blowing up. It wasn't the best dub. I thought he was on a suicide mission for the longest, until I was finally able to see an unmolested version of DYRL around 2002.
@@knghtbrd I still haven't see all of the climb hazard mospeada (sp?) arc in Robotech version. Though I did see that Robotech II movie where Rick & Lisa get married & the Robotech: Shadow Chronicles movies that's after CHM
Harmony Gold has been a litigous pain in the ass since obtaining the rights for material they used for Robotech for decades, blocking Studio Nue and Big West from sharing further Macross content in the western hemisphere.
Hick-a-roo? He-car-ooh would be much closer. Hick-a-roo sounds like an Australian red neck 😂
Minnay and Misa is straight tag teaming Hikaru in the last 8 episodes
Macross Plus was the first mecha anime I watched in the 90s. Definetly a watershed moment in my life because it kicked off my love of the genre.
In the first episode two ships await to connect with the sdf1 in the space, but they are destroyed by centrady
Saludos
I love Macross/Robotech so much it's so different from gundam but still so good
I'm just up to the point in this video where Roy dies and so far I have to say that the first series of Robotech matches the story beats perfectly. Yes Robotech was a bit dumbed down and censored, but it's largely the same story. I also need to say that, watching Robotech in 1985 as a 10 year old, it was the first kids show in the US to ever show character death (as far as I am aware) and I do not recall anyone who watched the show then freaking out or being scarred for life by it. Other shows (Voltron comes to mind) censored the death and claimed all the bad guys were robots because of a belief that kids could not handle death.
The movie even today out shines any anime currently. The detail in the animation rivals Akira. The Movie was such a hit in Japan that it had Star Wars lines waiting to get in. The movie is the standard.
Oh and if you wan to review a LONG and COMPLEX anime?? Legend of Galactic Heroes. I loved the original and watched about half of the remastered version with all new animation. Massed fleet battles with thousands of ships per side. Truly an epic show.
I've started LotGH about 3 times and have had a hard time getting into it. I think maybe I wasnt at the right time in my life to really enjoy it, so I definitely want to give it another watch soon cause everything I have seen about both the original and remake looks awesome.
The dadelous is a 'semi-submersible assault ship'. Not quite a sub....like our USS San Antonio...
Also the Prometheus and the dadelous were built from over tech which was compatible with the macross. Originally the ARMD ships are suppose to be in their place like in the movie
This was my first cartoon I saw as a kid where people, ummm...actually died 😮. As a kid in 1985 I couldn't stop watching the episodes....the love triangle and war had me on my toes.
The best Macross ever. We need remake like Yamato 2199 (without fanservice of course)
Re: the people building everything on the ship and the two sea vessels easily attaching - so everything was built on the alien technology, which was perfectly designed to modify and reconfigure based on need. The idea that the two vessels could be used as 'arms' was as easy to introduce as the entire transformation of the SDF-1 itself: the technology is completely transformative, and thus it simply needed to 'integrate' with itself. Same thing with the interior - the entire vessel can reconfigure on a whim, so constructing an entire city was really a minor change.
If anyones gonna marry my cousin; it’s gonna be ME!!! Lol
Speaking of Harmony Gold, Gundam and Robotech, I want to see your opinion on Fang of the Sun Dougram. A Spiritual brother of Gundam that ended up being the GrandFather of most Western Mechs via Inspiring MechWarrior/Battletech in 84
One of the interesting aspects to keep an eye on going forward if you chose to do more of these, is how extremely well the technology in the franchise advances alongside the timeline. Not just the military technology but consumer technology and how it's employed by the culture that pops up post SDF1 it's fantastic world building.
Macross is the Best and the Greatest👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
Legit just love this channel for finding cool Gundam content and obscure animes that I knew nothing about LOL
Ahh.. the memories. I used to rush home from school to watch Robotech.
probly better than some gundam shows
I was crazy into this show as a kid. I watched all the shows, drew all the figures and bought and read all the comic books to death. This show had a HUGE impact on my imagination as a kid. It truly was a sensation and even though I watched a lot of shows and movies from Japan like Godzilla, Ultra-man and Space Battle Ship Yamato. This one made the biggest impact by far. So much so that I got my sons into it and now my oldest lives in Japan and is going to University there and wants to live there.
Can we tip this man a buck for every time he says Hickaroo? 😂
Macross is the best thing ever basically
I think when it comes to things that you just have to roll with, what takes the cake is that as big as the Macross is, it still wouldn't be anywhere near big enough to fit a city inside the bowls of the ship.
Robotech difference Spoilers.
Though I do wish you'd do an actual Robotech review, too.
So in Robotech Protocullture is changed to be a rare Cold Fusion Power Source. The SDF-1 has the last Protocullture Matrix. Which is why the Zentrati don't want to blow it up.
This through line is what connects all three wars.
Several Alien Races are at war for this dwindling fuel source. The Protocullture can mold into the flower of life, which the Invid must eat it to live creating a really five sided war over three generations.
At the start the Zentrati are attempting to retrieve the Protocullture Matrix from the SDF-1. The Zentrati and Masters are at war with the Invid who eats it. Everyone involved is running low and it's imperative that Bretai reclaims the ship undamaged with the Matrix intact.
In the Macross Saga dub some names are changed, generally barely.
Misa is Lisa for example.
The Macross is just the SDF-1.
Roy was Rick's (Hikaru Ichijo) older half brother.
Valkyrie is a model.
Veritech (Variable Technology) is the make.
IE The Veritech Valkyrie.
UN Spacey is the Robotech Defense Force (RDF)
ZENTRATI are the Army of the Robotech Masters.
At the end Rick Hunter (Hikaru Ichijo) and Lisa Hayes leave with the REF in an attempt to deal with the Robotech Masters to avoid a second war. The REF leaves with all of the cutting edge equipment leaving basically Militia level garbage on earth. The REF passes the Masters and run into the Invid. The Invid who need Protocullture to live then engage the REF.
The Masters make it to earth but low on Protocullture Fuel are hesitant to engage the Army of the Southern Cross, who in turn were left with garbage are hesitant to engage the Masters.
This leads to low scale conflict and espionage what is akin to the US and USSR Cold War with both sides threatening all out nuclear war.
But 85% of the First War in the Robotech dub is unchanged from Macross.
The other two,
Southern Cross and Genesis Climber were heavily modified to be in line with Macross.
Southern Cross was actually a failure in Japan and canceled mid way through.
Robotech arguably salvaged Souther Cross.
Genesis Climber while a mediocre success was better received as the third war of Robotech.
I think a lot of it is Legacy.
Southern Cross and Gensis Climber are these short Animes without much build to them.
As Robotech, they're are interconnected and because of that the insignificant actions in say Gensis Climber has a larger effect because it is a side story to Rick Hunter and Lisa Hayes Robotech Expeditionary Force.
In the end Robotech took Macross and made it into a multi generational space opera stretching galaxies.
This sounds like it has potential, but totally wastes it.... the love triangle is a good idea, but it's wasted two, by the sounds of it because the lead male and the lead female never really get together.... or maybe they did 🤔... I didn't hear you say they eventually got together 😅. But even if they did they made the male lead sound like a real dick/dumbass and the female lead isn't much better. I would skip this series from the sounds of it 🤷♂️.
Well done video! Appreciate your efforts. There was a sort of English novelization of Macross by Jack McKinney which I read as a kid, it was great. Still used the Robotech branding tho.
Love the novels and love that half of Jack McKinney is actually James Luceno. Who writes some of my favourite Star Wars novels
Good stuff. Robotech was my first anime and its exciting that the Macross franchise may come over here soon after way too many years.
Please do a quick review of SDF Macross: do you remember Love ...they changed the story around a bit (for the better) the animation is mind blowing and the music...the music is amazing!
Hopefully DYRL is his next review
@@wpeniche Indeed!
Agreed
My familiarity with Macross was from Robotech Battlecry the game. When I watched the series though it was a lot different than my childhood favorite mech game
A bunch of things:
a) That heron commercial really caught me off guard. You do a nice job at surprising people xD.
b) Misa >>>>>>>> Min Mei
c) The marrying your cousin thing is def a thing in some cultures. In fact my mom wanted me to marry my 1st cousin. I said no, my cousins family
said no but my mom insisted. My cousin is happily married(I think?) now to someone who isn't a family member.
d) This was a pretty good series but I had forgotten most of it.
Great review! I can't wait for you to get to Macross DYRL and Macross PLUS. Both of those are just PEAK anime
I'm so glad that anyone now can watch the original rather than Robotech. This is one of the highest quality animes that we watched when we were kids 40 plus years ago in the opposite side of your countries. Beautiful drawings, fascinating stories and the intelligence!
Robotech was my very first anime ever (around age 10 or 11), so you can imagine that it had a huge influence on my tastes in anime and media in general. I love the sci-fi elements: the colossal space ships, the fascinating and unique maneuvers (sending your giant ship boring into the innards of a moon-sized space station and detonating a first-world nation's entire nuclear stockpile inside it is absolutely primo), swarms of streaking missiles and of course, transforming robots. I'll have to part opinions on you with the VF-1 Valkyrie: I think it's THE most elegantly designed transformable mecha of all time, beating out every Zeta transformer, imho. It's easily one of the most iconic mecha designs ever. As a kid, I was okay with the love triangle elements, but the Minmay pop star subplot bored me. Especially since Robotech's localizations of Minmay's songs are... not the best.
Loved the video! Interested to see your opinions on SEED. That was quite the controversial entry, back in the day.
Same here. My dad showed it to me when I was around that age, which was probably around 2008-2012.
So many things to say!
1. @13:00 Minmay was suggesting committing joint suicide with Hikaru, probably to show that Hikaru was growing up enough to realize that joint suicide was more messed up than romantic, and Minmay was still a long way off from growing up herself. The only upside to that weird after-war epilogue was seeing Minmay finally start to grow up, and have both Hikaru and Minmay realize that they both ended up changing too much as people to get back together, and that's actually okay. That bleeds into...
2. The Misa/Hikaru relationship: Misa looks and acts noticeably older than Hikaru, and a younger guy actually having a canon older wife in anime is pretty rare, even today, and I think that's a case of subverting people's expectations that actually works really well. Macross did kinda screw that up by making her only two whole two years older than him, despite how she seems more like five, (and they also made her a singer herself, I think? Despite that defying the whole point,) but still.
3. 'Culture as War' is one of the more interesting things from the Cold War: the USSR had a severely difficult time dealing with people smuggling in western rock music and movies, and some Russians would spend years looking for a song they only heard once even as late as the 80s. Sending people to the gulag for smuggling things like Elvis in was so blatantly absurd that it undermined the whole state ideology, and seeing the world in American movies made it more and more difficult to lie about how backwards the USSR actually was.
4. I'm old enough to remember when Battletech decided that Macross was a good match, and the subsequent lawsuit that ended that. Pretty funny, considering that Battletech is usually way more grounded than transforming mech planes.
Blame HG for that lawsuit since fasa legally purchased the designs from the studio nue and HG being the thugs they are tried to sue over a ip they don’t own, macross, thankfully harmony gold failed those cases against three different companies cause not doing anything but selling real estate and d rated rated films doesn’t put on a map
G1 Jetfire, anyone?
@@Sephiroth144 I had that one when I was a kid. It was awesome
Misa only really sings the once I recall, when she's reflecting on the demise of her former boyfriend Riber (and IIRC that was in the 4th audio drama). Robotech kind of fixed the age gap so that with Lisa being born in 1985 while Rick is born in 1990 though it's funny to note Hikaru and I share our birthday though not year of birth.
I have so much antipathy towards HG because thanks to that we lost our LAMs for good, but somehow Exosquad never suffered at all despite having some definite asset theft from FASA.
7:59 "mech suite"? hehehe. It is refreshing someone who is probably 10-ish years younger than me to talk about Macross and Robotech. A definite difference in terminology, understanding and interpretations.
Good job all around, though. I found it entertaining. Thumbs up from me ;)
Can u do a video on Space Runaway Ideon?
23:57
THAAAAANK YOUUUUU FOR TOUCHING ON THAT
(pause)
LIN IS NOT HER FIRST NAME
you always see it written as Lynne like on toy boxes.
i know the translation skills were sub par.
but actually, they should have been calling her ah mei(may)
because she's Chinese
that 3rd name, family and friends address ppl by 'ah' and whatever the 3rd name is.
like wong chow lung would be called ah lung by parents and if it's a guy, he's mr wong
they put family name First.
the miss macross episode got it wrong when min mei fell on stage.
I got to disagree with the belief that when the Macross transformed more than once it kept destroying the city inside of the main ship. From what I remember, from both the American dubbed version Robotech and Macross. It was right after the first battle with the Zentradi in space when the ships were all combined into the Macross aka the SDF-1, that the rebuilt city was destroyed. But it took them about a few weeks while Hikaru/Rick was trapped after a battle with the Zentradi and his aerial acrobat plane was stuck in a portion of the SDF-1 with Min-Mei/Minmay whom he saved. While they were trapped together, they went through some stuff and grew closer romantically speaking until they were eventually rescued. By the time they got back out, the city had already been rebuilt it and done so in a way that would protect the citizens from further transformations and possible exposure to vacuum with blast door shutters during a battle until they could figure out how to activate the shield system. And that's when they created the pinpoint barriers using those rolling computer mouse things to quickly move the tiny every shields around to block incoming missiles. Although I have to say one of the biggest issues I have with these shows isn't so much just the fact that humanities often up against the wall. A lot of sci-fi series do that. One of the big problems was that the main good guy/the protagonist was usually a bad fighter. Not a bad pilot but a bad physical fighter. And there's always some other person who can generally kick their ass easily in 1 on 1 outside of the cockpit. And in this series that would be Min-may's (distant) cousin (or she just called him her “cousin” as a nickname since they grew up in the same neighborhood, A lot of people do that). I mostly remember that he played that Kung Fu fighter Shao Pai Long - that Min-May actually sang song for as she became the new diva for the Earth forces - The primary songstress that everybody focused on for a long time. While I don't remember his name I do recall that he pretty much becoming a modern day Bruce Lee/Jet Li/Jackie Chan kind of character for them But then also became drunken and verbally abusive to Minmay in their relationship before it finally hit rock bottom and he split. And whenever Rick/Hikaru and him got into an argument, the dude straight laid the boy out like 4 or 5 times. And that's not counting when he got bodied by the bad guy - Kamjen who eventually became a friend/ally in his mecha, Because it was his fleet that was mainly chasing after the Macross/SDF-1 for like 2 years through space after the initial Space Fold incident which standard these (I'm guessing like 30,000 remaining) citizens and soldiers. Which really makes me wonder how good Rick/Hikaru really is since Roy Folker, who was like a big brother to him really wanted him to join their military. At best I would say he was a good balanced pilot, but not one of their best by far. Especially when his co-pilot/subordinate Max was so good he actually attracted the eye of the zentradi Ace pilot from the segregated female fleet (since male and female Zentradi were bio-enginerred for war, and often fought and killed each other when together) and fell in love with her. Even marrying and having a child with her before he became the Captain/Admiral of the 7th fleet that left Earth to go explore and/or colonized the galaxy after the 2nd Human and Zentradi war when a lot of their people living on Earth amongst humans couldn't hack it living peacefully. (Back to my point) Max being such a good pilot and marrying the ace pilot of the enemy at the time, gave Humanity two incredible pilots that could probably take on half a fleet of like 1000 (or more like 750) vs maybe 500 or so ships on humanity's side along with the allied Zentradi by themselves. The guy who became the secondary antagonist later on though, did in fact destroy both the SDF-2 and SDF-3 I think, right when the later was out of mothballs and barely functional. I think they said in a series that Rick/Hikaru, when he became the Supreme Commander of Earth's forces (in Macross I think they're called UN Spacey) he was secretly working on the SDF-4 by the time everything was over and by the time he died. I don't know if they ever confirmed if he married Minmay or Lisa/Misa though, Because over time he became a lot closer with the ladder due to Minmay kind of becoming a forgotten songstress by the time they were all in there like early 30s to mid-30s. And one of the main things that really brought me into the series was actually the music as well as the sci-fi action, the transforming robots and the drama. Even though my favorite one was actually the short-lived sequel Macross 2: Lovers Again. And I kind of liked it but I simultaneously hated that other series of Robotech Southern Cross - where the characters we're from my an 90s or late 80s looking generation and flew in ships designed to resemble helicopters and some tanks. And Sentinels - which was mostly humans and power armor fighting aliens that were largely comprised of energy that put themselves in like insectoid robot forms. Another one of the things that I'll never really forget the series for but it did ultimately kind of push certain developments forward, was the death of Roy Folker. Just going to his girlfriend's house and bleeding out on her couch while she makes dinner when he could have gone to the hospital. He could have just retired and become a captain or something. But no instead they killed him off and the weirdest most subtly overdramatic way way. Also from the fact that along with a lot of anime Claudia Grant/Claudia LaSalle, was probably one of the few Black characters back then. Also from the fact that they couldn't confirm if Captain Gloval was White with a weird reddish coloring or East Indian/Asian. I personally think that he was East Indian. Which is not bad if he was or wasn't, I just wanted to know for sure. And between the earlier parts of the series and when the first initial Robotech/Macross series ended most of the people on earth died and were struggling to put things back together. So it was incredibly surprising to me that they decided to assemble like 10,000 fleets of ships (each one with probably like 2000 frigates in about 10,000 fighters each, Most of whom were cannon fodder for the bad guys to blow up until the music starts playing and the more prominent figures come in to save the day somehow. Like Basara and his band Fire Bomber, Sheryl Nome and Ranka Ran Lee from Macross Frontier, and the group Walkuré from Macross Delta) and send them offer to the wide galaxy to get into God knows what else kinds of trouble especially when encountering technology and information related to the “Robotech Masters” or whomever else created the Zentradi, originally designed the SDF-1 and visited Earth like millions of years ago. With the common denominator is that they all or the one culture used music/rhythmic based sounds and energy patterns to communicate, like that weird alien structure from Macross Zero that the local island people built their little society based on just as the 3rd World War was ending, and that series too had a very ambiguous conclusion. Of which to control their own regiments of Zentradi groups like the Marduk Empire also used music through their Emulators like (the not so cleverly/uncleverly named) Ishtar. My one problem with that series too is that they never explained if the Alus that Ishtar heard of actually existed. I still love the music from the short series though, and the fact that the main protagonist wasn't even a fighter, he was a pilot for sure. But he was a reporter, And now that I think about it they probably should have given his ship that he was flying a lot of flares and some sort of smoke screen to get out of the battlefield quickly since it was essentially just a transforming jetplane mixed with a camera. Also from the fact that they gave a lot of attention to government suppression as well as propaganda style news reporting. On one side it was the government struggling to fight an enemy that they were unfamiliar with and to keep the public calm. While on the other side it was a young and somewhat ignorant bit growing reporter whom went from Just chasing a big story to wanting to report the truth no matter what happened afterwards even if it caused a panic and made friends with the enemy since Ishtar was saved by the old war reporter/camera man - Denis).
Really glad I found ya after getting back into it with Witch from Mercury. Hope your subs keep spiking since it's obvious you put in work here.
Watching Macross (Robotech Season 1) was a wild ride for me even with the English Dub from the 80s.
Only got the Blue Ray of it a few months ago and even if it was rated E for Everyone, there is some real mature stuff within the series that whoever have it the E rating never noticed.
Roy focker skull squadron was based on the legendary Jolly Roger squadron. If you watch the 1980 movie Final Countdown. The Jolly Rogers are shown in it.
Can't wait for when you get to the point where macross is an idol anime
Also, according the Macross historian Egan Loo, Minmay and Kaifun aren't related, FWIW. However, that's not explained in the show itself, so that's a problem in the show.
I'm not versed in Macross but I grew up with Robotech and the differences between the two is beyond me but ehh maybe it's time to go buy so DVDs. I'm old school. I don't stream.
Are you that guy from his mom's basement?
It’s funny you mentioned the Daedalus and Prometheus attachment was never explained in Macross BUT I think it was at least offhandedly mentioned as a part of some scavenge mission in Robotech. Perhaps the dinners were. Also wanting that explanation done.
I've only seen a couple episodes of Robotech, but I got my hands on the whole Macross TV series back in the day on VHS copy. I wasn't fluent in Japanese, but I still got most of the story I think.
Man. I've first watched this when it first aired in Malaysia in 1991 or maybe 1992. I was 12 at the time. And that sound track stuck in my head for more than 30 years. Personally I hate the Haim Saban's Robotech.
Head On, Apply directly to the forehead,
Head On, Apply directly to the forehead,
Head On, Apply directly to the forehead.
lol
What I wanna know, Harmony Gold is now allowed to market other MACROSS stuff, the "trouble" is no more, for more than a year now.
So where's the new (old) stuff?
I only know about "Robotech" on BR.
Does anyone know more about this?
Not gonna lie, The Bodozle watching TV and getting interrupted by a head on ad made me spit my drink. Happy you covered the series that got me into Mecha.
Good coverage of a great series, Macross doesn't get enough recognition. That being said I can't recommend enough watching the movie Macross: Do You Remember Love, the art and animation are nearly on par with Akira and is the basis all the future Macross are based off of.
There are two early animes that really brought anime to America. they were once before when I’m about to mention which was Felix the cat, I suppose battle be on the stars or sometimes called Gatchaman…. then of course it was the transgender girl who transformed into a male prints and acted like a superhero. But I’m not speaking of those because they were interesting, but didn’t really revolutionize anime as much as space battleship Yamato’s, which brought into the enemy world the standardization of trying to pick ships. It brought a lot of technology to the anime rendering. it also had a very revolutionary idea of a story arc with each episode episodic as well. The second one which brought it even further was Robotech. How many gold got the rights to bring it to the US. Back then most of the anime in Japan was not really being brought over. and before you kind of blame them for the lawsuits or ownership of the rights, the parent companies in Japan kept selling off the rights to multiple places even after they made the deal with Harmony Gold. Which is why you end up seeing the transforming Veratech in trans formers and other shows. Never mind also in the game BattleTech…. there’s also a very good video on the legal situation’s that came out. I guess in Japan they were not aware of the problems they would occur by not paying close attention to their legal agreements made after the fact.
when they got to a fourth season or rather a second season of Robotech, the Macros story arc they made their pitch to the original creators who thought the story building that they had created using what was already made was ingenious. And gave the go ahead for Robotech sentinels. and due to trade law agreements and the difference in yen versus dollar it never got going very far.
to be honest I actually prefer the Robotech story. But I think that the Macros original story was very interesting. in the Robotech story they realize the Zentradi did not fully know what Protoculture was. A different twist on the term. And in Robotech it turns out it’s a energy source. They play both aspects in the Americanized version. Stories are very similar otherwise. you will also see that Robotech was a very popular series that really propelled anime in the US. With star Blazers coming in wedding the whistle in a couple years later Robotech following behind, Americans were about to explode into the anime crave. I remember around the time Robotech came out you would see little groups of pocket either Dübbers or Subbers Or even those who just showed the original anime appear at conventions or college groups. It was fun watching anime with no idea what they were saying and you had to work it out based upon what they were doing. It was a fun time. He drove a lot of people wanting to learn Japanese
I watched robotech on toonami and the story pretty much runs like that so I don't know what they changed. It's like this the cultural taboo is there for the exact reason it should be there.
Having relations with any of your close family leads to your offspring having duplicate genetic code which causes problems. You can't restart the world with two people. it's like that foopyland episode of rick and Morty and you throw in cannibalism. when I here of it I don't think "that's cultural taboo and it's yucky" I think "they are potentially creating a genetic bottleneck which will lead to somebody having a dark future if mother nature doesn't make mules".
I remember Misa, as Lisa. Because of the dub that was done. Probably always will to be honest. I was much happier with her as the waifu of the mc(Still remember him as well as Rick Hunter. lol) Never liked the other female character. Even as a kid, i never understood how anyone could like her character. XD
If the word "simp" existed in the 1980s, Hikaru would've been the mascot.
A lot can be said. The recap and dream episodes are because the animators could not get the work out in time; they had to rely on old footages. Toy Galaxy or Secret Galaxy did a good story on the history of Macross and Robotech.
I don’t mind the love triangle and Hikaru being stupid. Love is complex and can be stupid at times. The frustration makes them feel like real people. If love was logical, it wouldn’t be love…
Hope to see a video on Do You Remember Love movie - the retelling but with a bigger budget and perfect animation in my opinion.
3:03
And that Roy Focker’s Valkyrie was the basis for Transformers G1’s Jetfire or Skyfire due to copyright.
Hey, hey. With the announcement that Disney has licensed all of the Macross sequels, now might be the perfect time to cover Macross 7, since you did the first two entries, already.
Personally I love Robotech and even like the “Frankensteining” they did to connect the 3 stories like having the Masters create the Zentraedi to fight the Invid. But yeah straight up F Harmony Gold.
"Jesus, man. Its been two years!"....
That's rookie numbers, how about 7...
Umm the issue of the town getting ripped apart it would suck for everyone ESPECIALLY th insurance ppl cuz they lose money when you need them and they have to pay
The Zentradi wants to capture the Macross because when they first engage the human Space Cruisers they fire Reaction weaponry (nukes) which is a lost technology and when they see the Macross they realise it has been rebuilt which is a lost art for the Zentradi.
This is a major plot difference between Robotech and Macross as in Robotech the Zentradi thinks the humans have Primitive weapons and is only interested in the Macross because it contains a McGuffin.
The Macross was supposed to dock with the two space cruisers after taking off but they got destroyed before they could dock so macoss uses the available docking ports to dock with the Prometheus and Daedalus. In the Macross Do You Remember Love movie the ARMD space cruisers are docked instead.
What i really like about the Macross is that the ship is from a race that we never see but is at war with the Zentradi in a galaxy spanning battle.
This show makes a good job of having humanity appear small but far from insignificant to the future of the galaxy.
Sadly no sequel has matched up to the original as they have gone too silly or too mythological.
Macross has an episode problem as the show got cut back in production and then was such a hit when aired that they had to make more episodes.
This is why the show feels a bit unbalanced with the return back to earth being rushed and there being a false ending after 27 episodes and then having a new story about rebuilding Earth.
Macross Forever!!! Harmony gold was evil, near destroyed Macross series… the robotech adaptation turn a great story line into a joke, ruined the original song in the evolving climax. Those harmonies jerks was purely seeking only money…
In the beginning of making Macross series, those who build the anime were young freshman, if you looking deeply, many famous name of these days had contributed in this anime series, Macross was not just a out stand anime, had been a first step of today master. The anime had too much dream inside.
No...there was was nothing like the relationship between Claudia and Roy, when this show was released; I also dislike Minmai, and am a 100% Lisa-stan...
The thing about Min Mei and Rick is that she did love him, the thing she and Rick were going in opposite direction Rick was moving up the chain of command and Min Mei was becoming a major star. Then when they were both in position to pursue a relationship Lynn Kyle started interfering because of his obsession with his cousin. In the second part of the series its becomes the reason why Min Mei leaves Kyle and almost gives up her music career is because she tries to recapture what Kyle had interfered with while Rick and Lisa were on break. Min Mei and Rick did have an affair and lived together ultimately Rick and Min Mei broke up when he realized they were way to different people.