I see a lot of comments on whose better, who swung more etc. Can we just say that Goodman and Shaw each had their incredible qualities. I love The Blues here, Shaw was a very serious musician who achieved a lot. This is heart warming (and note on a Paul White man concert, who did so much for Bix and Jack Teagarden). Jazz is not a calisthenics, it is an art. I think Shaw would agree with me - do we say Monet or Cezanne? Same thing. Enjoy the greatness of both - and many others greats of that era. We will never hear the likes of this music again. I have never heard this exact performance before, its stunning.
Indeed! Shaw and Goodman represented two very different schools of clarinet (one could say there were four actually, when you also count Jimmy Noone (whose disciples were Edmond Hall and Irving Fazola), and Frank Teschemacher and Peewee Russell). None is arguably "better" or "worse". Technically, there is very little between them, harmonically Shaw is more adventurous. I enloy both in equal measure and, as Shaw himself wrote in liner notes to a CD, artists should be judged by their best work, not their worst. Both Goodman and Shaw have so much "best work" in their catalogue that it's pointless to argue about who is better, only about whom one might prefer.
Artie's performance in Paul Whiteman's "St. Louis Blues" was amazing. I noticed that throughout the entire song, It seemed that a lot of his ideas that were used in this song, were recycled and then used for his composition called "clarinet concerto." Thank you for uploading!
The actual Carnegie Hall performance starts about 7:25 into the segment. That's Artie Shaw playing an interpretation of "St. Louis Blues" with Paul Whiteman and his Orchestra at Carnegie Hall on 12/25/1938. Incredible!!! While Benny Goodman may have swung a bit more, Shaw was far superior in terms of making music with his clarinet. And here he absolutely nails it and does things you wouldn't believe possible on a Bb clarinet. I'm amazed by how well this recording sounds.
The last (very long) piece here is actually titled "The Blues". I've read elsewhere that Whiteman's original title was "A Mess Of Blues". In the 1985 Oscar-winning Artie Shaw documentary "Time Is All You've Got", Shaw asks the interviewer, "Want to hear it?" after explaining that he improvised this entire piece. His schedule, involving live appearances, radio broadcasts etc. did not allow any time for rehearsal. He literally ran onstage on Christmas Day at Carnegie Hall, made up the whole thing - ending it, I might add, with the highest B♭ clarinet note ever played publicly up to that point - and ran out again to play on the radio. It's an astonishing feat, and kudos to the restorers of this recording. The actual source material was of very low quality and this is an amazing restoration.
I am not sure Shaw was always honest about how he went about things. Take for instance what he said about Concerto for Clarinet. During the filming of the Fred Astaire-Artie Shaw band feature film Second Chorus it turned out a lengthier piece of music was needed to be preformed by the Shaw band. Shaw said he then hastily threw together this piece which he later dismissed as something not to be taken too seriously. Really? When you listen, not even all that carefully, to this recording you can hear the nucleus of Concerto for Clarinet, the tempo changes, the tom-tom and clarinet sections and, indeed, the solo licks that with hindsight sound very familiar. Shaw was not someone to leave things to chance. He was known to be a very careful rehearser and an obsessive perfectionist. (He chided Glenn Miller's band for avoiding risk taking and never making any mistakes, "ever". Have you ever heard a Shaw recording that is less than technically perfect? Who was it again that drove his band and studio personel nuts requiring 17 takes before he was satisfied with "Comes Love"? Or 11 takes for "Go Fly a Kite"? 6 for "Octoroon", 11 for "Serenade to a Savage") So just walking in and "improvising" this entire piece, while the Whiteman band goes through quite a few changes of tempo, keys and moods? That's just not very believable, Mr Shaw. But a nice try. (I have a very strong hunch that Lennie Hayton, Whiteman's long time arranger, had more than just a hand in the birth of Shaw's Clarinet Concerto although he goes uncredited as composer or arranger. Because who worked for Shaw as an arranger-composer in 1940? You guessed it: Lennie Hayton.)
Thanks for the upload Ralf! My favorite band of the era. I can't describe it in precise musical terms but Artie seemed to be operating at a whole other level from most bands of the time.
An almost Gershwin-like ("Rhapsody In Blue") apparition -- at turns mournful, soulful with remembered Jewish gut punches, strutting but always "down as" the city streets people slept on. Many thanks, Ralf, for posting this.
As Artie Shaw said in an interview, art is not a competition. Objectively, no one is better than another; It is different or it is not, because I would be speaking from subjectivity. Who is better Rembrandt or Matisse, or Van Gogh...? To say that one is better than the other is an even dangerous particularization.
Wow, what a find! Shaw and Whiteman had already played together on a July 8 1938 Chesterfield broadcast (I Surrender Dear), when we also get to hear Jack Teagarden. Interestingly, this broadcast took place two weeks prior to Shaw's hit recording of Begin the Beguine on his first date for RCA/Bluebird.
Victor- You're right on with Shaw vs. Goodman ! My Dad(Les Robinson), played lead alto for both and Artie was a master with the clarinet. My dad would know, as he was with Artie from '38-39 and with the "stardust band" also (doing all the recordings). Benny could swing ,but Artie was the greatest ! Gary Robinson
You're right ! It's sems that one day, a journalist asked Shaw " what is the differnce between you and Benny Goodman " and Shaw to answer : " Goodman play clarinet, me, I 'm playing music " ..(sorry for my bad english)
+garyrob58 Gary thank you for your comment. Your Dad was a tremendous alto player and in my humble opinion was a great contributor to both the Shaw 38-39 and the "stardust bands".
Thank You Jerry ! I appreciate your taste in music....not too many of us still around. I've had so may great memories of my Dad playing the sax in the 60's through 1990.
Hi Gary, very nice to see you here! I have always counted Les among my favourite altoists from the moment I first heard him soloing with Shaw. Together with Toots Mondello the most beautiful tone on that instrument.
ALL COMMENTS HAVE MERIT BUT GOODMAN SHARED HIS GREAT TALENT FOR MORE DECADES AND REACHED THE NEXT GENERATION PLAYING UP UNTIL HIS DEATH. WHO IS BETTER? EACH OF US HAVE OUR OPINION. LETS SAY THEY ARE THE GREATEST CLARINET PLAYERS EVER.
Well, Artie stopped playing in 54' and Benny is considered by a lot of people as the best clarinetist because the "Puritans" of swing said so, and that's because Benny stayed swing and classical, he was the representation of pure, regular swing. Artie however, changed his playing with each interest he had. (His trips to Mexico, Spain, Australia etc). Of course Benny would survive longer than Artie, he also promoted regular "Half-boehm" clarinets, which industries liked because they were cheaper and easier to intonate. That produced the outcome today.
Shaw was a superlative clarinetist. Technically better than Goodman and more inventive in his improvisations than Goodman. It is such a shame that Shaw became so disillusioned with the music world and gave up, whereas Goodman kept playing right up to the time he passed on To really understand Shaw read “The trouble with Cinderella” which is a book he wrote. When I met him inLondon in the late 80’s he was not at all interested in talking about his work or his music. Indeed he became very angry when I asked him a couple of questions. I have studied Shaw’s way of playing for years and have played the Concerto for Clarinet many times. I have always achieved performances that I think would have pleased Artie, and for me that is what counts.
He was so damaged psychologically; between feelings toward his mother (which fueled his ambivalence with all women) and what he went through during the war, Shaw carried a tom of heavy baggage G-d bless him. May his memory be a blessing.
Shaw's perfomance with the string laden Whiteman band must have fueled his ambition to have a band with strings of his own. When Shaw comes in, and certainly towards the coda, there are clear overtones of what later would become his Concerto for Clarinet. Not surprisingly Lennie Hayton, Whiteman's longtime arranger, would join Shaw when he started his band with strings in the spring of 1940.
In my 1974 interview with Shaw, which is posted in entirety on the Mainspring Press Blogspot, he said, “I added a string section, which was not done in swing bands, although Whiteman had done it long before I did. My string section had ten violins, three violas, two cellos, and a string bass.”
That is true. We can hear "Lady Be Good" in the Artie Shaw Movie "Symphonie of Swing" (1939). Artie Shaw was much better with his Orchestra between 1937 until 1940, and Benny Goodman sounds well, but in another way than Shaw.
+Bayou Swing Hello, thanks for your opinion. Shaw or Goodman ... I love all their music again and again ... And the Party goes on ... Let's Dance ... *Smile* ...
+Bayou Swing I absolutely love both, and I've listened to so much of their stuff it's ridiculous... and as amazing as Artie's band was and as perfect a player as he was... I'm sorry, there's just something about Benny. Benny rocks harder, that's all there is to it. If you compare Benny's hottest orchestra recordings of "Sing, Sing, Sing", "Bugle Call Rag", "Swingtime in the Rockies", "King Porter Stomp", "Life Goes to a Party", "Roll 'Em", "Camel Hop", "Peckin'", "Wrappin' It Up", "St. Louis Blues", "Tain't No Use", "I Found a New Baby", or "Walk, Jennie, Walk" to any of Shaw's swingiest recordings like "Oh, Lady Be Good", "Traffic Jam", "Carioca", "What is this Thing Called Love?", "Serenade to a Savage" or "Back Bay Shuffle", it should be evident why Benny Goodman was the King. No, Benny is not "technically" the better Clarinetist, but first off, Benny plays with a greater variety of tones and "voices" in his playing(from scratchy growls, to piercingly clear high notes, and about five other voices in between), and there's a tightness and bounce to his Band's feel in those early years that is so infectious and fresh, not to mention more syncopated feeling due to in large part to the contributions Gene Krupa. Benny also has a greater tendency to play intentionally straight lines over a swung beat, which is partly where the "Rocking" feel comes from, and again, adds to the syncopation. Artie's tone, while gorgeous, is generally the same milky-rich tone all the time, with much less variety of sound. Artie's sound can be haunting and is always beautiful, but it's less Bluesy than Benny's and definitely doesn't have nearly as much character as Benny's does. Obviously, there are many reasons to love both, and I do, and it's all a matter of taste, but for me, and for most people it seems, Benny has it over on Artie just a bit. Though, I'd gladly go back in time and go see both of their bands every week for a year straight though. :)
Where can we find the 1950 LP Modern Music for Clarinet by Artie Shaw? I came here because I was told that some songs from that LP are in this live performance at Carnegie.
@@ralfsiebert-ffm Thanks. I was able to find the songs on that 1950 LP in a compilation album on Apple music called Artie Shaw and his Gramercy 5 under the house of jazz label. These are also uploaded on Artie Shaw's official RUclips channel.
All this sentiment for Shaw over Goodman. Seems to me Shaw is not remembered for "Sing, Sing, Sing," or "Avalon," and Goodman is. Did Shaw jam with Gene Krupa or Lionel Hampton? Not that I am aware.
+Robby Bonter They were both great. Most of the cool stuff Benny did, such as get asked to play on Billie Holiday recordings, and play with Basie, Artie did that stuff too. And Artie played bebop better than Benny did.
@@thebrazilianatlantis165 By his own admission Shaw did not play bebop. There are no recordings that I know of where he did. Both Goodman and Shaw took forays into the land of bebop with their bands and bebop musicians, but neither soloed as beboppers.
Shaw is, and roundly deserves to be, remembered for the immortal "Stardust" from 1940, one of the most beautiful recordings ever made, jazz, big band pop or whatever label you want to stick on it. If we ever send anything that represents the best of humankind into outer space again, that recording should be on it. "Summertime" and "The Man I Love" from 1944 are two more that are on a par with anything Goodman did. (Musically "Sing, Sing Sing" is really not that great, btw. There are many much better recordings to remember Goodman by.)
@@thebrazilianatlantis165 Would you honestly think I'd make such a comment without knowing my stuff? I have all of Shaw's commercial recordings plus a host of broadcasts and radio-only transcriptions. This is not Shaw soloing in the bebop style, is it? It's his band that's playing bebop, not him.
Given a blind sound test, to untrained ears, I firmly believe Shaw would be chosen the better player over Goodman( technically). That said, techniques do not always make a " Great" musician. Both will have defenders & opponents. All things considered they rank equal in the pantheon of music. Shaw, cold,somewhat sterile,clinically superior. Goodman,clean,fluid, warm, like a good friend. That's just my opinion but...who am I??
Shaw vs. Goodman? Lot of pointless controversy; each will always have his boosters. IMO, Shaw's band was more fluid, more organic, somewhat escaped the "white band" herky-jerky kind of mechanical beat.
Met him once, briefly...shook his hand and thanked him for the wonderful music. I wish I hadn't the personal encounter with him. To say that he was less than warm and gracious would be the understatement of the last century, and presently. You know what? It doesn't matter; his music is what remains, and much of it was/is superlative.
Amazing. Pulled out my right ear bud and was able to make it through the first song without getting sea-sick. I was intrigued. Made it all the way to St. Louis Blues. Incredible! It's interesting how sometimes Whiteman's band sounds like Shaw's second band, but at other times you can definitely tell that it's Whiteman's band.
One of the best clarinet performances of all time.
I see a lot of comments on whose better, who swung more etc. Can we just say that Goodman and Shaw each had their incredible qualities. I love The Blues here, Shaw was a very serious musician who achieved a lot. This is heart warming (and note on a Paul White man concert, who did so much for Bix and Jack Teagarden).
Jazz is not a calisthenics, it is an art. I think Shaw would agree with me - do we say Monet or Cezanne? Same thing.
Enjoy the greatness of both - and many others greats of that era. We will never hear the likes of this music again.
I have never heard this exact performance before, its stunning.
Indeed! Shaw and Goodman represented two very different schools of clarinet (one could say there were four actually, when you also count Jimmy Noone (whose disciples were Edmond Hall and Irving Fazola), and Frank Teschemacher and Peewee Russell). None is arguably "better" or "worse". Technically, there is very little between them, harmonically Shaw is more adventurous. I enloy both in equal measure and, as Shaw himself wrote in liner notes to a CD, artists should be judged by their best work, not their worst. Both Goodman and Shaw have so much "best work" in their catalogue that it's pointless to argue about who is better, only about whom one might prefer.
@@joostkiefte7683 Both are great, but for my dough both were not very good at playing the blues. Irving Fazola was THE master in that respect.
@@basilpeewit3350 And such beauty of tone!
Ahhh yes, the good old high "C4"....sensational NOTE!!! Love it!
Artie Shaw was the greatest clarinetist who has ever lived. He was also his own worst enemy
Not Canergie hall
Right! He even ran off Ava Gardner. Just quit while he was young.
Yeah, he ran off Ava Gardner.
Shaw, Goodman, DeFranco, J. Dorsey, E. Daniels....lots of fantastic clarinet artist & more coming each day!
..."and more coming each day". Unfortunately not.
Artie's performance in Paul Whiteman's "St. Louis Blues" was amazing. I noticed that throughout the entire song, It seemed that a lot of his ideas that were used in this song, were recycled and then used for his composition called "clarinet concerto." Thank you for uploading!
The actual Carnegie Hall performance starts about 7:25 into the segment. That's Artie Shaw playing an interpretation of "St. Louis Blues" with Paul Whiteman and his Orchestra at Carnegie Hall on 12/25/1938. Incredible!!! While Benny Goodman may have swung a bit more, Shaw was far superior in terms of making music with his clarinet. And here he absolutely nails it and does things you wouldn't believe possible on a Bb clarinet. I'm amazed by how well this recording sounds.
Shaw was an autodidact who began as a saxophonist and taught himself the clarinet from diagrams of the upper and lower register fingerings.
The last (very long) piece here is actually titled "The Blues". I've read elsewhere that Whiteman's original title was "A Mess Of Blues".
In the 1985 Oscar-winning Artie Shaw documentary "Time Is All You've Got", Shaw asks the interviewer, "Want to hear it?" after explaining that he improvised this entire piece. His schedule, involving live appearances, radio broadcasts etc. did not allow any time for rehearsal. He literally ran onstage on Christmas Day at Carnegie Hall, made up the whole thing - ending it, I might add, with the highest B♭ clarinet note ever played publicly up to that point - and ran out again to play on the radio. It's an astonishing feat, and kudos to the restorers of this recording. The actual source material was of very low quality and this is an amazing restoration.
I am not sure Shaw was always honest about how he went about things. Take for instance what he said about Concerto for Clarinet. During the filming of the Fred Astaire-Artie Shaw band feature film Second Chorus it turned out a lengthier piece of music was needed to be preformed by the Shaw band. Shaw said he then hastily threw together this piece which he later dismissed as something not to be taken too seriously. Really? When you listen, not even all that carefully, to this recording you can hear the nucleus of Concerto for Clarinet, the tempo changes, the tom-tom and clarinet sections and, indeed, the solo licks that with hindsight sound very familiar. Shaw was not someone to leave things to chance. He was known to be a very careful rehearser and an obsessive perfectionist. (He chided Glenn Miller's band for avoiding risk taking and never making any mistakes, "ever". Have you ever heard a Shaw recording that is less than technically perfect? Who was it again that drove his band and studio personel nuts requiring 17 takes before he was satisfied with "Comes Love"? Or 11 takes for "Go Fly a Kite"? 6 for "Octoroon", 11 for "Serenade to a Savage") So just walking in and "improvising" this entire piece, while the Whiteman band goes through quite a few changes of tempo, keys and moods? That's just not very believable, Mr Shaw. But a nice try.
(I have a very strong hunch that Lennie Hayton, Whiteman's long time arranger, had more than just a hand in the birth of Shaw's Clarinet Concerto although he goes uncredited as composer or arranger. Because who worked for Shaw as an arranger-composer in 1940? You guessed it: Lennie Hayton.)
@@joostkiefte7683 thank you, your insights and thoughts are very valuable... as tempting as it is to hang onto the myth :)
Thanks for the upload Ralf! My favorite band of the era. I can't describe it in precise musical terms but Artie seemed to be operating at a whole other level from most bands of the time.
Artie wasn*t just your ordinary high school drop out horn blower.
An almost Gershwin-like ("Rhapsody In Blue") apparition -- at turns mournful, soulful with remembered Jewish gut punches, strutting but always "down as" the city streets people slept on. Many thanks, Ralf, for posting this.
Hadn't ever heard "Mess o' Blues" before. Just great.
For me the definitive version
As Artie Shaw said in an interview, art is not a competition. Objectively, no one is better than another; It is different or it is not, because I would be speaking from subjectivity. Who is better Rembrandt or Matisse, or Van Gogh...? To say that one is better than the other is an even dangerous particularization.
Wow, what a find! Shaw and Whiteman had already played together on a July 8 1938 Chesterfield broadcast (I Surrender Dear), when we also get to hear Jack Teagarden. Interestingly, this broadcast took place two weeks prior to Shaw's hit recording of Begin the Beguine on his first date for RCA/Bluebird.
Abosolutely Beautiful!!!
Beautiful clarinet-tone. Thank you. With kind regards, OK-Dreamband.
So brilliant, that Artie!!
I missed out by not being born until 1947, but my mum instilled a love for this music in me. Now I don’t listen to anything else.
Cousin!!!❤
Victor- You're right on with Shaw vs. Goodman ! My Dad(Les Robinson), played lead alto for both and Artie was a master with the clarinet. My dad would know, as he was with Artie from '38-39 and with the "stardust band" also (doing all the recordings). Benny could swing ,but Artie was the greatest ! Gary Robinson
You're right ! It's sems that one day, a journalist asked Shaw " what is the differnce between you and Benny Goodman " and Shaw to answer :
" Goodman play clarinet, me, I 'm playing music " ..(sorry for my bad english)
+garyrob58 Gary thank you for your comment. Your Dad was a tremendous alto player and in my humble opinion was a great contributor to both the Shaw 38-39 and the "stardust bands".
Thank You Jerry ! I appreciate your taste in music....not too many of us still around. I've had so may great memories of my Dad playing the sax in the 60's through 1990.
That's so cool! Saw your father in the documentary "The Quest for Perfection".
Hi Gary, very nice to see you here! I have always counted Les among my favourite altoists from the moment I first heard him soloing with Shaw. Together with Toots Mondello the most beautiful tone on that instrument.
ALL COMMENTS HAVE MERIT BUT GOODMAN SHARED HIS GREAT TALENT FOR MORE DECADES AND REACHED THE NEXT GENERATION PLAYING UP UNTIL HIS DEATH. WHO IS BETTER? EACH OF US HAVE OUR OPINION. LETS SAY THEY ARE THE GREATEST CLARINET PLAYERS EVER.
Well, Artie stopped playing in 54' and Benny is considered by a lot of people as the best clarinetist because the "Puritans" of swing said so, and that's because Benny stayed swing and classical, he was the representation of pure, regular swing. Artie however, changed his playing with each interest he had. (His trips to Mexico, Spain, Australia etc). Of course Benny would survive longer than Artie, he also promoted regular "Half-boehm" clarinets, which industries liked because they were cheaper and easier to intonate. That produced the outcome today.
My parents were just a couple of teenyboppers when this played(only 17 then) but wouldn't meet until 1946 ; a year after the war ended.
Shaw was a superlative clarinetist. Technically better than Goodman and more inventive in his improvisations than Goodman.
It is such a shame that Shaw became so disillusioned with the music world and gave up, whereas Goodman kept playing right up to the time he passed on
To really understand Shaw read “The trouble with Cinderella” which is a book he wrote. When I met him inLondon in the late 80’s he was not at all interested in talking about his work or his music. Indeed he became very angry when I asked him a couple of questions.
I have studied Shaw’s way of playing for years and have played the Concerto for Clarinet many times. I have always achieved performances that I think would have pleased Artie, and for me that is what counts.
He was so damaged psychologically; between feelings toward his mother (which fueled his ambivalence with all women) and what he went through during the war, Shaw carried a tom of heavy baggage G-d bless him. May his memory be a blessing.
Shaw's perfomance with the string laden Whiteman band must have fueled his ambition to have a band with strings of his own. When Shaw comes in, and certainly towards the coda, there are clear overtones of what later would become his Concerto for Clarinet. Not surprisingly Lennie Hayton, Whiteman's longtime arranger, would join Shaw when he started his band with strings in the spring of 1940.
Wow, indeed, I can hear the similarity!
In my 1974 interview with Shaw, which is posted in entirety on the Mainspring Press Blogspot, he said, “I added a string section, which was not done in swing bands, although Whiteman had done it long before I did. My string section had ten violins, three violas, two cellos, and a string bass.”
Benny Goodman was a very very very good technician, but Artie Shaw was a genius. Like many geniuses he burned out early.
If you listen to the soundy version of Oh Lady Be Good, (1939 with Buddy Rich) it is hard to defend that Goodman swung better.....
That is true. We can hear "Lady Be Good" in the Artie Shaw Movie "Symphonie of Swing" (1939). Artie Shaw was much better with his Orchestra between 1937 until 1940, and Benny Goodman sounds well, but in another way than Shaw.
+ABrandsma Artie could swing great, but Benny did it more consistently.
Oooo. Good one. "Traffic Jam" is also another one that pleads Shaw's case. Boy does that tune really swing!
Atom-O-
Brazilian Atlantis only because that’s not what Artie wanted to do. Btw, Dave Brubeck was once quoted as saying that “any jackass can swing”.
como gozo oir las extraordinarias grandes bandas de Norteamérica. que años ...
yop, people that say Goodman swung better than Shaw should listen to more Shaw !
+Bayou Swing
Hello, thanks for your opinion. Shaw or Goodman ... I love all their music again and again ... And the Party goes on ... Let's Dance ... *Smile* ...
+Bayou Swing I've listened to plenty of Shaw, he was terrific, and Goodman swung better.
+Bayou Swing I absolutely love both, and I've listened to so much of their stuff it's ridiculous... and as amazing as Artie's band was and as perfect a player as he was... I'm sorry, there's just something about Benny. Benny rocks harder, that's all there is to it. If you compare Benny's hottest orchestra recordings of "Sing, Sing, Sing", "Bugle Call Rag", "Swingtime in the Rockies", "King Porter Stomp", "Life Goes to a Party", "Roll 'Em", "Camel Hop", "Peckin'", "Wrappin' It Up", "St. Louis Blues", "Tain't No Use", "I Found a New Baby", or "Walk, Jennie, Walk" to any of Shaw's swingiest recordings like "Oh, Lady Be Good", "Traffic Jam", "Carioca", "What is this Thing Called Love?", "Serenade to a Savage" or "Back Bay Shuffle", it should be evident why Benny Goodman was the King. No, Benny is not "technically" the better Clarinetist, but first off, Benny plays with a greater variety of tones and "voices" in his playing(from scratchy growls, to piercingly clear high notes, and about five other voices in between), and there's a tightness and bounce to his Band's feel in those early years that is so infectious and fresh, not to mention more syncopated feeling due to in large part to the contributions Gene Krupa. Benny also has a greater tendency to play intentionally straight lines over a swung beat, which is partly where the "Rocking" feel comes from, and again, adds to the syncopation. Artie's tone, while gorgeous, is generally the same milky-rich tone all the time, with much less variety of sound. Artie's sound can be haunting and is always beautiful, but it's less Bluesy than Benny's and definitely doesn't have nearly as much character as Benny's does. Obviously, there are many reasons to love both, and I do, and it's all a matter of taste, but for me, and for most people it seems, Benny has it over on Artie just a bit. Though, I'd gladly go back in time and go see both of their bands every week for a year straight though. :)
Your right. The ‘38 band swung as hard as any of Benny’s bands. Artie had different ideas though.
TheHeater90 Artie’s improvised lines were way more advanced then were Benny’s, whose lines were shorter and more predictable. I’m an Artie guy.
Where can we find the 1950 LP Modern Music for Clarinet by Artie Shaw? I came here because I was told that some songs from that LP are in this live performance at Carnegie.
@@ralfsiebert-ffm Thanks. I was able to find the songs on that 1950 LP in a compilation album on Apple music called Artie Shaw and his Gramercy 5 under the house of jazz label. These are also uploaded on Artie Shaw's official RUclips channel.
All this sentiment for Shaw over Goodman. Seems to me Shaw is not remembered for "Sing, Sing, Sing," or "Avalon," and Goodman is. Did Shaw jam with Gene Krupa or Lionel Hampton? Not that I am aware.
+Robby Bonter They were both great. Most of the cool stuff Benny did, such as get asked to play on Billie Holiday recordings, and play with Basie, Artie did that stuff too. And Artie played bebop better than Benny did.
@@thebrazilianatlantis165 By his own admission Shaw did not play bebop. There are no recordings that I know of where he did. Both Goodman and Shaw took forays into the land of bebop with their bands and bebop musicians, but neither soloed as beboppers.
Shaw is, and roundly deserves to be, remembered for the immortal "Stardust" from 1940, one of the most beautiful recordings ever made, jazz, big band pop or whatever label you want to stick on it. If we ever send anything that represents the best of humankind into outer space again, that recording should be on it. "Summertime" and "The Man I Love" from 1944 are two more that are on a par with anything Goodman did. (Musically "Sing, Sing Sing" is really not that great, btw. There are many much better recordings to remember Goodman by.)
@@joostkiefte7683 "There are no recordings that I know of"
ruclips.net/video/CHTWozfCszM/видео.html
@@thebrazilianatlantis165 Would you honestly think I'd make such a comment without knowing my stuff? I have all of Shaw's commercial recordings plus a host of broadcasts and radio-only transcriptions. This is not Shaw soloing in the bebop style, is it? It's his band that's playing bebop, not him.
Given a blind sound test, to untrained ears, I firmly believe Shaw would be chosen the better player over Goodman( technically). That said, techniques do not always make a " Great" musician. Both will have defenders & opponents. All things considered they rank equal in the pantheon of music. Shaw, cold,somewhat sterile,clinically superior. Goodman,clean,fluid, warm, like a good friend. That's just my opinion but...who am I??
@ Shirely Balinski
My answer: A person with a good balanced opinion and a very good taste in music. That's you! Thank you for your kind words.
Dad always told me that Shaw played off the cuff, compared to Goodman playing from script.
bueno,un 10
Shaw vs. Goodman? Lot of pointless controversy; each will always have his boosters. IMO, Shaw's band was more fluid, more organic, somewhat escaped the "white band" herky-jerky kind of mechanical beat.
Artie Shaw was a great musician.. but not a nice person especially to his own children. he died miserable and alone the way he wanted it.
Met him once, briefly...shook his hand and thanked him for the wonderful music. I wish I hadn't the personal encounter with him. To say that he was less than warm and gracious would be the understatement of the last century, and presently. You know what? It doesn't matter; his music is what remains, and much of it was/is superlative.
The fake stereo is nauseating. I can't listen.
+td1238 I have to agree.
+Phil Binstead I do not agree, I think the sound is different and interesting. Ralf did a nice job.
Amazing. Pulled out my right ear bud and was able to make it through the first song without getting sea-sick. I was intrigued. Made it all the way to St. Louis Blues. Incredible! It's interesting how sometimes Whiteman's band sounds like Shaw's second band, but at other times you can definitely tell that it's Whiteman's band.
yes i agree .
NEVER