Love to see Swain getting some attention, its clear that a lot of thought was put into these changes. He's absolutely my favorite champion, so I'm glad that he's not being changed drastically. Super excited to try it out :)
Ganking the same lane over and over is less about gold and more about making that laner useless. It only takes 3 successful ganks in the first 15 mins to do that.
Nope the optimal ganking pattern is essentially to analyze wincon before game starts, see how the wincon player plays, then camp the shit out of them and win through their lane. If your vayne is 6/0 in lane, you DONT gank top. You immediatelly go botside and start pressuring their t1 and possibly t2 and then the botlane should swap to mid or top, and you change to topside accordingly and keep pressuring objectives with the vayne. You dont want to ever give the enemies a chance to get her shutdown, and you dont want to force the vayne to play turbo defensively if you can prevent it, and you do that by hovering her all the time, aka play on her half of the map.
@@orshabaal8990 that mentality makes you lose games you gank where your camps are,sure you don't specifically camp them but if there is a play you can make top while your vayne is 6/0 you make it you don't just ignore the possibility of getting 2 lanes ahead instead of 1 also sometimes it's just as important to shut down a champ that might completely fuck over your comp or scale too hard if left unchecked,if your bot is 6/0 there is a good chance they keep snowballing without you as long as you keep the enemy jgl away from them
i dont know if i do that it heavily depends on the laner im ganking. If I gank a vayne it does next to nothing. I have enough experience to know it does literally 0. It just gives a bounty and then she has more gold than you afterwards if she gets it...
Sounds to me like ults are supposed to be less healing so that the hero is less of a pure stat check, and more about the repeated demon flares (so, long lasting ults are MUCH better damage, which should scale with the swain player's skill and also trend winrate higher in low elo). The power of the ult in general is supposed to go down. Going in blindly with the expectation that they should feel better would be silly.
First of all, and as a 5.5M otp swain (mid) , let me tell you that i think i talk by all swainmains when i say "thank you very much for all that consideration you had with our dear champion" :´3 Now, focusing on the ideas, yes, im agree about what you are pointing in the video, essentially, swain is far way better as midlaner but is really unconfortable to play because of how space to counteprlay he lefts for the enemies (this is specially unfair for us when we face a champion that is based on the opposite principle, like yone or syndra, that basically not give any space to the enemy to counterplay them propperly). Also, the reason why supp has a better playrate but worse performance is because swain isnt a support, he feels more confortable to play there because of how the lane works, and because is an antimeta pick, however, the facts is that players cant reach his full potential in that role because swain needs to scale by items, and ofc, as a support thats hard (specially when your items are far way expensive than the others and you have to take more risks than a xerath). So... if the main goal is "making him feel better in mid and if is possible a bit stronger in supp" i think is a really nice direction. -------------------------------------- Im 120% agree about swain's E needs improvements, as you said many time ago, is just unfair for the player, because even if you use it perfectly you still depend of the enemies mistake to hit it, and if you cant, you dont use your combos, so the change loooks AMAZING :D About multiple demonflares, man i cant wait to use it by myself ;D The thing is R1 is same important because it gives you the healing you need to stay in the fight, so adding an extra hp scaling can compensate it (i mean, if the healing from R1 is the same or even better if we stack propperly, i dont really care about dealing less damage, because the multiple explosions would benefit a good swain over an average one). About Q, i think reducing the cone but amplifiying the range would be a good idea, but the thing you purpose can be really nice (specially because swain needs a lot of mana regen since he is a skill spammer after all). One of the best points of your ideas is that i see you want to give him consistency about some specific points that are what his otps usually wants, the battlemage experience. For isntance, the ah stacking part with the ultimate and the max hp scaling on draining are really nice examples. -------------------------------------- In general terms, my conclusion would be that your main goal is to make him funnier to play, and more satisfactory by taking power from the "passive aspects of his kit" to put it into the "active aspects of his kit". Like "yes, maybe now you cant bully a melee like you did before, but now playing against ranged champions will feel better" or "yes, maybe you dont deal the same dmg just for staying there on the middle of the teamfight without doing anything, but if you are good and you use more spells you will deal the same or even more dmg). If i can add any tip, i would suggest this 5 changes to take it in consider: ---1st: Increase a bit his aa range (this is what would make better some midlane matchups where the enemy has hypermobility like yone or irelia) ---2nd: Increase a bit the hp per soul, or at least give a bit of ah per soul ---3rd: Reduce Q cone, increase the range (basically, concentrate the bolts, sacrificing aoe but increasing efectivness). ---4thd: Add some Hp scaling to Q (maybe a scaling that is applied after the bolts stacking, like "whatever dmg you deal and then it adds +5%max hp), this would be great specially because it would add even more consistency with his new R ---5th: Make his W faster if he uses it on the 1200 units of his passive range Honestly, i can tell you that if you put at least 2 of thoose 5 it wont be necesary to make another change in the future for the champion I must say this minirework looks great, i cant wait to test it :D P.D.: Again, thank you very much for the effort you put in our champion :´3
Demonflare feels good when it's singular but strong use. You also wait for perfect and satisfied moment to unleash it. I font like multiple demonflares based on cd. It will make players to shoot it as soon as they can and it won't be very satisfying
After the Lee Sin buff, the attack power is 69 at level 1. Currently, Rek'Sai's level 1 attack power is 58. There is a difference of 11 in attack power based on level 1. This is too serious. After Rek'Sai's rework, the pick rate is failing as the result progresses. This is a situation that only champion users do and there is no change in the pick rate. Rek'Sai's chronic problem. Please roll back to fixed damage for e skill.
Dont comment more times just because your a delusional rek'sai main, you only look stupid. Read the stats, rek'sai has a 51.5% winrate which is more than 3% higher than lee sin. If anything, lee sin should get buffed and rek'sai get nerfed.
As a Swain main who plays him everywhere, I like the changes except the mana regen at the cost of base mana. Don't think Swain support needs extra mana regen due to starter item and not needing to use as much as solo lane Swain. Nonetheless, very excited to see how it goes. Also, please look at his playrate in conjunction with his winrate post-changes. Last time on mid-scope, felt like the hotfix buff was unnecessary bcs people were playing him wrong on toplane.
I really like that if you pay out actual bounties it properly deletes bounties. I was afraid that if you had a 1k bounty and you die you go to 700g->400g->150g that woulda sucked, thanks for not doing that
Honest question: Why are we talking about Swain supp? yes he is being played there but he shouldn't, and the reason is because he feels awful mid/bot. I would have hoped they ignore the supp part of Swain and just focus on making him feel better
they didnt sacrafice anything to make him better in supp? hes just going to be better in mid bot and supp and if people still want to play swain supp even tho he might be a worse supp than a midlaner soon they're free to do so no?
They have reworked swain roughly 4 times to make him better solo laner and every single time he stays as support. This will never change. Its like trying to force lux back to midlane
This. It's one of those mages that is simply forced into support because his other roles are so bad that theyre basicly griefing. The same applies to Velkoz and for the longest of time also Xerath.
I mained old swain because I loved the battlemage aspect and being a crow is cool. As You mentionned, the new one doesn't come close to being a battlemage. If you manage to make him one, I'll give him a shot again.
Bounty changes atlasst, thank you Phreak, like you said you don't know what's going on behind the scenes but often it feels wrong...and it's been like this for soooo long...
it's LITERALLY the same thing to Seraphine, Phreak. Her "highest win rate" is ap carry, but it doesn't mean that feels good to play there. Same as Swain, her audience is in the sup role, but 52% win rate as APC doesn't mean that she's good to play there.
I agree that Swain W is a crappy spell since you can only hit it alongside other CC (E), but I think his E is really good and very satisfying to land, it's by far my favorite skill on his kit. Yeah it's pretty unreliable (mainly at short range), but the payoff when you hit is huge. AoE root + knockback that also gives permanent health. The main issues I have with Swain (aside from W being boring) are first of all that his trading can be very awkward, if you go in for a Q (which is short range) after landing E + W you're often opening yourself up to be counter bursted. This could be solved by making E stun, silence or give you speed boost after the pull. My second issue is that his E and Q are at their strongest when he's right at the battle line of a teamfight, he wants to have all opponents on one side of him for those spells to hit the most targets, but that's at odds with his ultimate which is strongest when he's positioned like a tank or bruiser in the middle of the enemies. This could be solved by capping the ultimate to drain 2 or 3 enemies, change the second activation to send out a wave forward instead of hitting in all directions, and/or make the second activation stronger the longer he stays alive in a fight.
Personal take on bounties: When bounties were simply about kill streaks they felt a lot better than what we have today. Adding variables like exp, cs, gold lead and neutral objectives to the formula makes the game feel surgically rigged and less fair. I understand that this gives Riot more balance levers for comeback potential, but it seems so overly artificial that I don't think it's ever gonna feel good for the players. For example, early game comps should have priority early and secure these resource as opposed to scaling comps. So why when an early game comp executes that goal, they get punished by giving the scaling comp a comeback paycheck, when the scaling comp already has built in comeback potential? In short, giving too many kills has always been avoidable, so old bounties felt fair to me. With the current formula, bounties are not avoidable, it feels unfair.
*Love* how you're consistently reducing swain's healing in order to give him more burst. Oh and the optimal tactic of using Demonburst the moment it's off cooldown instead of stacking charges is a great move for the strategist fantasy. Are you sure keeping his identity as a battle mage wasn't a typo on your end? Sarcasm aside, I'd suggest removing the healing from his passive, increasing the bonus hp from his passive, maintain the healing of his ult, increase hp ratio on his ult. If the power budget comes up short then consider making demon burst a soft cc and removing demonburst's damage. I like the angle of trying to give swain's abilities more reliability. Checks off the goals of keeping him viable in all three roles and smoothing the parts of the kit that feel bad to use. The power shift from his ult to his qwe isn't bad, as it just increases his ability to trade during laning phase without drastically reducing his team fight presence. I'm sad that you didn't have the animation budget to consolidate Swain's kit. W is completely out of place for a battle mage. Something closer to Hwei's Gaze of the Abyss would give stronger zone control and scouting at the cost of the half way across the map range. The current W is too punishing to use when champions can walk from one side and out the other before it bursts.
Listen to an awesome objective: Make xp matter less not only in bounties but in game as well because the solo lanes snowball way harden than the duo lane and are always 2 level up if both lanes win. Just nerf the level up
Hey hello, i wonder what are your thoughts on midlane assassins? It feels to me like the class is intentionaly left bad and unable to do their job. Ignoring outliers like leblanc.
Can you tune the minions based on average level so they actually push more obviously in one direction until the crash to a tower without champion interferrane mid-late game. I hate how the lanes hover and don't have a timer/macro attached to them any more
bounty system looks cool but it would be better at this point to show inb game the TOTAL gold gained from killing a champion and not only the bounty gold. for example if you kill a 0/6/10 support in mid-late game it should be clear that you get only 100g (or if top gets permaganked).
Why not nerf Swain's R strength by making it a semi-toggle like before 2018 VGU? You could tune the numbers in any way you want and you won't gate Swain's most appealing ability behind a massive cooldown. It seems weird to me how such an (already weak - at least in the feels) spell can be even more nerfed in terms of strength, AND you also put it in a 120 sec cooldown
Maybe I misunderstood the statement but farm bounties are not comparative now right? Does that mean both sides of a lane can have a bounty if no one dies until after 100 farm?
Well, glad we're not bringing back the crow laser Swain from the days of yore. I think it's a bit weird to focus on one champion when we've once again completely fucked up the state of bot lane as a whole...but I do think Swain is one of the champions that needs the attention. As long as we don't over shoot it and create another Skarner or Corki situation. Bounty change goals are great as well. Really hope this patch successfully hits the mark. I will warn you, you need to be careful about screwing with the death streak reset mechanic. If getting a kill doesn't full reset a death streak, you could potentially be enabling The Bausen Law more than is ideal. However if getting CS partially resets the bounty so that someone like Baus becomes worth gold to kill repeatedly...that is also sketchy...It would combat Bausen Law, but it would also mean the guy who is hard feeding might feed more gold to the enemy team over time just by catching waves. Definitely a difficult and delicate balance here...especially since top lane champions tend to straight up scale better than other roles since they're all god damn stat sticks and stat checkers by default. REALLY hope the new system ends up working out though. Bounties have definitely been a sore point in League for a long time and it'll be nice if the system felt better.
You seem tired Phreak, try not to push it to hard and take some vacation mate you deserve it ! edit : would it be to strong if we were able to recast swain e to make move toward us when ever we want ?
My sister just started playing and asked a kind of interesting question: Why can't you see turret ranges? I couldn't think of a good answer so I guess I'm wondering Riot's reason. From my experience hiding it doesn't add anything. So many times i've had friends die and say "how was that in tower range", and then also even if you know it pixel for pixel... is that really a cool rewarding thing to know and use? I feel like it's just lame - but then the indicator is just a circle so idk, I wish it were incorporated into the terrain so it wasn't scuffed and was more clear.
It makes tower more of a safe place. As if everyone knew the range by heart dives would become far too easy and towers would lose even more of their defensiv value.
@@blisswinters2527 opposite, most high elo players know turret range well enough for any practical purposes. showing the actual range does two things: it moves higher and lower elo a bit closer in terms of how much information everyone is working with (id say thats a good thing, but one could argue the skill expression dance- i think its kinda eh skill expression though). It also means that tower diving and people hugging turret range becomes WAYYY more common in lower ranks. Most likely the part of the community that enjoys a more chill game, which is what low elo gameplay often is, would find their enjoyment generally lowered, meaning balance changes that would suck for higher skill brackets.
You can see turret ranges if you play against bots, which is what brand new players are expected to do. And yes, knowing what range things have is a rewarding skill to know, obviously, since you don't die to the turret and you can do cool things like attack from just outside its range, enter and exit the range in-between shots, juggle turret aggro when diving, etc. This skill goes beyond turrets too and applies to every ranged autoattack and spell in the game, knowing if you're within turret attack range is really no different from knowing if you're within Draven's attack range, and obviously we can't put range indicators on every champion.
I really dont like support Swain. Support Swain only really is a thing cause he was unviable in solo lanes before the rework, yet borderline OP in support(as his kit had way too much burst, despite wanting to be a "mage juggernaut" hybrid). Then rework happened and many people just didn't adapt. As Phreak said: A decent chunk of them max E first. Have you read what E max does? Its only damage and not even a lot of it lol By far the worst skill to max. But ranting aside, Swains problem is how his stacking mechanic scales harder with how bad your enemy is and less with how good you are at landing your Es. I feel like W max second works out pretty well actually - it has a fun strategic niche but mainly.. it just helps you keep enemies in your threat zone. It has a big reward for hitting, too - which you can enable either via threat, E or slows from R/Rylais. Current Swains biggest problem is that he has trouble itemizing. He is very mana hungry, but he doesnt like the full-squishy mage mana items. That leaves only RoA - and RoA gives zero haste, no utility and has that very much "feel-bad" stacking mechanic for modern lol. Before, mythic liandries was the perfect 1-stop-shop for Swain: Very good Haste, Mana, some AP and that %max health burn he needs. There is blackfire torch now, but blackfire torch being more of an~ AP scaling burn 8is the problem: Swain doesnt and isnt supposed to build a ton of AP. There is malignance, but that item is very polarizing to use, as you feel completely useless without R. Swain wants to rush rylais+liandries
I'm SO happy about the bounty changes, as someone relatively new and with experience on other similar games, it made no sense to me. On another note, do drakes matter for bounties? They were omitted Can a team be 3 drakes up or even have soul and they still wouldn't be more likely for the enemy team to get objective bounties?
talon is weak, can we please do something about it? And it would be nice if we revert the systemic item nerfs as completing items used to feel more rewarding and it was more possible to carry incompetent teammates.
Question: When Swain was first reworked he could tear Soul Shards out of champions that were CC'd by allies. Why not bring this back? Even if you need to nerf his passive scaling it's a lever that disproportionately affects Bot Lane, where there are twice as many champs, and doesn't really change anything about Mid or Top.
It was giga broken or absolutely worthless... You have a team of decent CC appliers? it's broken. You have no CC on your team? It is worthless. In League of Legends a core of the balance design is that champions should have agency of all of their abilities. The only exception to this is probably Yasuo ult. DotA2 is less shy of designing in a way that enables very specific hero interactions for example... I will never forget the horror that was "Tiny Bite"
@@Keurgui1 And the same was true for Swain with his E. But it's generally a really bad design, at least in League of Legends. Another example of that bad dependent design is Nilah. Pair her with an enchanter supp and she is strong or at least balanced, pair her with any other support and youre effectively griefing...
Due to the Item Cataclysm patch, Bruiser champion Rek'Sai became ambiguous. Please roll back to the previous e skill fixed damage. Level 1 Rek'Sai's attack power in the jungle is 58, which is a seriously low number and is at the level of a utility champion. Lee Sin attack power 69 at level 1 after buff 3 attack power Rek'Sai's current attack power is 58 at level 1. There is an 11 difference in attack power. It makes no sense. Rek'Sai is seriously weak right now.
Dont comment more times just because your a delusional rek'sai main, you only look stupid. Read the stats, rek'sai has a 51.5% winrate which is more than 3% higher than lee sin. If anything, lee sin should get buffed and rek'sai get nerfed.
Bruh. Riot is so unfair for what they did to Evelynn. She's not balanced, she's just weak. Would be so good if they will revert her nerfs. Riot should push the players to learn how to play against evelynn and to push the players to be more cautious,and to have more map awareness, rather than making Evelynn weak and pushing a lot of players to quit playing Evelynn. This is so irrational and unfair.
I believe a lot of the idea behind inting sion is to gain a gold lead by exploiting the ability to gain more gold than the enemy while conceding low gold kill values. It's just a gold game: Baus gains 500 gold, gives 100 gold. My understanding is that since gold is now the primary factor for bounties, I'd expect baus to have a harder time with his strategy. However, it really relies on the specific numbers and I didn't do the math.
When can Kled build bruiser again? %health damage being calculated from his AND Skaarl's HP bars means building HP works against him, forcing him into assassin builds. Briar, Aatrox and Red Kayn were changed to encourage bruiser builds, Kled should be too. A bruiser should be allowed to build bruiser despite a Rioter losing to tank Kled in season 12.
Spamganking enemy top will still make them mad and run down or troll so i prob will continue to do that so we have a 5v4 adventage But everything else very good changes i like them👍
Swain W could probably be a strongish passive with a weaker activation. Passive ideas I got: Movespeed like teemo All abilities can slow like a weaker ashe passive, Passive omnivamp on w (nerf him tho) Aatrox q with old aurelian sol vibe 2+ actvations of different distances for each activation on his w. W passive that gives swain damage reduction or armour or mr based on max health or ap. Kled passive but last hit is an aoe explosion that does low damage slows and scales with ap and lower max health damage scaling
Do i understand correctly that your bounty from dying decreases solely based off how much gold you give away? Or is there also a comparative system to like how much more or less gold you've earned than your laner or your team than their team?
The game is snowballing bc rito gaming allow top jg or mid to arrive at LVL 18 to fast and me as a support lvl 12 can't do anything to stop this monstrosity - every game enemy top mid jg is lvl 18 - 10/0 and u cant do anything - you kill the interest to play this game anymore - make everyone equal - make skill expresion game !! Not LVL DIFF GAME 😢
Seraphine next because she flopped hard. She could definitely use the "new ability" midscope you mentioned. Her Q and W need some major updates. Q worthless for support and W is genuinely problematic
@@jasoncrosby9558 reverting fixes nothing because they clearly prioritize support now. You revert her and she's even worse than now for majority of her players. What she was initially designed for is irrelevant now
I'm assuming power is being taken out of other parts of his kit but we just don't have the specific numbers. Cause man 3x damage on e + faster projectile with no other nerfs would be wild on a 53% wr support.
@@Lkabss 53% wr as APC not supp. He also has a 1% pickrate so keep in mind majority of the people playing swain are one tricks who know the champ causing the wr to be inflated
Bro can u ffs pls look into Veigar? U rework and update champs that dont need them asap but u still ignore him. Rn he is a bad Asol. Nothing else. Pls change that and give him a real identity bc he no longer is that scaling suoer mage anymore. Thats syndra and asol. Also both do waaay more dmg agaibst tanks, which feels really bad
Hello phreak I am so confused, so I don’t understand why seraphine didn’t get the same treatment as swain. Seraphine was released as a midlaner as swain, high pickrate support all over especially low elo. And is only picked by mains in carry roles. Same with seraphine, why is she getting shoved support and not make her better in the midlane. The only way the fully play seraphine right now is in botlane because you made her lose identity. Please make her great mid and people will play her.
I agree with your point but she got the exact same treatment as swain. They are buffing swain in support role and nerfing the farming portion of his kit, as they did with seraphine with nerfing her waveclear and gold-scaling damage while buffing her supporting powers. Both champions got the same treatment because most players played those champions in the support role rather than mid or adc even though the winrate said they are worse in support. Therefore he wants the majority of playerbase to feel satisfied with the champions in the role most play them in.
@@olaskaar4140 she’s only in support, because she’s a girl with pink hair and a sheild. Every low elo player compared her to sona and played her there lowering her winrate in support for the longest. And if that’s the case, Lux should be treated as such too. It’s not fair for players or mains who have played a champion in their correct position for years, only for it to be changed for players who simply can’t read abilities and how they scale. Just gross.
@@jasoncrosby9558 lux is played as a poke mage in support role while seraphine is as an enchanter so lux mid cant get nerfed as seraphine since the nerf would also affect lux support as much
@@jasoncrosby9558 its fair for MAJORITY OF PLAYERBASE since they play her support, and its most fair that majority of playerbase can determine which role the champion should get tuned after
Love to see Swain getting some attention, its clear that a lot of thought was put into these changes. He's absolutely my favorite champion, so I'm glad that he's not being changed drastically. Super excited to try it out :)
Ganking the same lane over and over is less about gold and more about making that laner useless. It only takes 3 successful ganks in the first 15 mins to do that.
Nope the optimal ganking pattern is essentially to analyze wincon before game starts, see how the wincon player plays, then camp the shit out of them and win through their lane. If your vayne is 6/0 in lane, you DONT gank top. You immediatelly go botside and start pressuring their t1 and possibly t2 and then the botlane should swap to mid or top, and you change to topside accordingly and keep pressuring objectives with the vayne. You dont want to ever give the enemies a chance to get her shutdown, and you dont want to force the vayne to play turbo defensively if you can prevent it, and you do that by hovering her all the time, aka play on her half of the map.
Its not about the money its about the message
@@orshabaal8990 that mentality makes you lose games
you gank where your camps are,sure you don't specifically camp them but if there is a play you can make top while your vayne is 6/0 you make it you don't just ignore the possibility of getting 2 lanes ahead instead of 1
also sometimes it's just as important to shut down a champ that might completely fuck over your comp or scale too hard if left unchecked,if your bot is 6/0 there is a good chance they keep snowballing without you as long as you keep the enemy jgl away from them
I’d argue in particularly volatile top and bot lanes that a single gank can be extremely decisive
i dont know if i do that it heavily depends on the laner im ganking. If I gank a vayne it does next to nothing. I have enough experience to know it does literally 0. It just gives a bounty and then she has more gold than you afterwards if she gets it...
Mr Bauss I dont feel so good
I love swain mid thank you Phreak
Man i love swains ult. you feel like a teamfight monster. hopefully the shift in power translates into your ult phases feeling better than worse.
Sounds to me like ults are supposed to be less healing so that the hero is less of a pure stat check, and more about the repeated demon flares (so, long lasting ults are MUCH better damage, which should scale with the swain player's skill and also trend winrate higher in low elo).
The power of the ult in general is supposed to go down. Going in blindly with the expectation that they should feel better would be silly.
Huge fan of the Swain work, I'm really excited to test it out! Thanks for giving such a great overview!
Thanks again for making these! Hope your day goes well ^^
First of all, and as a 5.5M otp swain (mid) , let me tell you that i think i talk by all swainmains when i say "thank you very much for all that consideration you had with our dear champion" :´3
Now, focusing on the ideas, yes, im agree about what you are pointing in the video, essentially, swain is far way better as midlaner but is really unconfortable to play because of how space to counteprlay he lefts for the enemies (this is specially unfair for us when we face a champion that is based on the opposite principle, like yone or syndra, that basically not give any space to the enemy to counterplay them propperly).
Also, the reason why supp has a better playrate but worse performance is because swain isnt a support, he feels more confortable to play there because of how the lane works, and because is an antimeta pick, however, the facts is that players cant reach his full potential in that role because swain needs to scale by items, and ofc, as a support thats hard (specially when your items are far way expensive than the others and you have to take more risks than a xerath).
So... if the main goal is "making him feel better in mid and if is possible a bit stronger in supp" i think is a really nice direction.
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Im 120% agree about swain's E needs improvements, as you said many time ago, is just unfair for the player, because even if you use it perfectly you still depend of the enemies mistake to hit it, and if you cant, you dont use your combos, so the change loooks AMAZING :D
About multiple demonflares, man i cant wait to use it by myself ;D
The thing is R1 is same important because it gives you the healing you need to stay in the fight, so adding an extra hp scaling can compensate it (i mean, if the healing from R1 is the same or even better if we stack propperly, i dont really care about dealing less damage, because the multiple explosions would benefit a good swain over an average one).
About Q, i think reducing the cone but amplifiying the range would be a good idea, but the thing you purpose can be really nice (specially because swain needs a lot of mana regen since he is a skill spammer after all).
One of the best points of your ideas is that i see you want to give him consistency about some specific points that are what his otps usually wants, the battlemage experience.
For isntance, the ah stacking part with the ultimate and the max hp scaling on draining are really nice examples.
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In general terms, my conclusion would be that your main goal is to make him funnier to play, and more satisfactory by taking power from the "passive aspects of his kit" to put it into the "active aspects of his kit".
Like "yes, maybe now you cant bully a melee like you did before, but now playing against ranged champions will feel better" or "yes, maybe you dont deal the same dmg just for staying there on the middle of the teamfight without doing anything, but if you are good and you use more spells you will deal the same or even more dmg).
If i can add any tip, i would suggest this 5 changes to take it in consider:
---1st: Increase a bit his aa range (this is what would make better some midlane matchups where the enemy has hypermobility like yone or irelia)
---2nd: Increase a bit the hp per soul, or at least give a bit of ah per soul
---3rd: Reduce Q cone, increase the range (basically, concentrate the bolts, sacrificing aoe but increasing efectivness).
---4thd: Add some Hp scaling to Q (maybe a scaling that is applied after the bolts stacking, like "whatever dmg you deal and then it adds +5%max hp), this would be great specially because it would add even more consistency with his new R
---5th: Make his W faster if he uses it on the 1200 units of his passive range
Honestly, i can tell you that if you put at least 2 of thoose 5 it wont be necesary to make another change in the future for the champion
I must say this minirework looks great, i cant wait to test it :D
P.D.: Again, thank you very much for the effort you put in our champion :´3
Let's go, get Husum here, it's time for the Swain!
Love the work. Swain seems really fun, and the bounty thing makes so much sense
What a wonderful thing to wake up to ❤
Demonflare feels good when it's singular but strong use. You also wait for perfect and satisfied moment to unleash it. I font like multiple demonflares based on cd. It will make players to shoot it as soon as they can and it won't be very satisfying
The relative farm made playing malsahar on my lower elo account absolute hell. (Emotionally)
Thank you for changing it.
After the Lee Sin buff, the attack power is 69 at level 1.
Currently, Rek'Sai's level 1 attack power is 58.
There is a difference of 11 in attack power based on level 1. This is too serious.
After Rek'Sai's rework, the pick rate is failing as the result progresses. This is a situation that only champion users do and there is no change in the pick rate.
Rek'Sai's chronic problem. Please roll back to fixed damage for e skill.
Dont comment more times just because your a delusional rek'sai main, you only look stupid. Read the stats, rek'sai has a 51.5% winrate which is more than 3% higher than lee sin. If anything, lee sin should get buffed and rek'sai get nerfed.
As a Swain main who plays him everywhere, I like the changes except the mana regen at the cost of base mana. Don't think Swain support needs extra mana regen due to starter item and not needing to use as much as solo lane Swain. Nonetheless, very excited to see how it goes.
Also, please look at his playrate in conjunction with his winrate post-changes. Last time on mid-scope, felt like the hotfix buff was unnecessary bcs people were playing him wrong on toplane.
I really like that if you pay out actual bounties it properly deletes bounties. I was afraid that if you had a 1k bounty and you die you go to 700g->400g->150g that woulda sucked, thanks for not doing that
Honest question: Why are we talking about Swain supp? yes he is being played there but he shouldn't, and the reason is because he feels awful mid/bot. I would have hoped they ignore the supp part of Swain and just focus on making him feel better
they didnt sacrafice anything to make him better in supp? hes just going to be better in mid bot and supp and if people still want to play swain supp even tho he might be a worse supp than a midlaner soon they're free to do so no?
They have reworked swain roughly 4 times to make him better solo laner and every single time he stays as support. This will never change. Its like trying to force lux back to midlane
This. It's one of those mages that is simply forced into support because his other roles are so bad that theyre basicly griefing. The same applies to Velkoz and for the longest of time also Xerath.
thanks for the timestamps and the hard work
I mained old swain because I loved the battlemage aspect and being a crow is cool. As You mentionned, the new one doesn't come close to being a battlemage. If you manage to make him one, I'll give him a shot again.
14.21 It's fucking demon time
Bounty changes atlasst, thank you Phreak, like you said you don't know what's going on behind the scenes but often it feels wrong...and it's been like this for soooo long...
Cool changes love em c: on swain and bounties
it's LITERALLY the same thing to Seraphine, Phreak. Her "highest win rate" is ap carry, but it doesn't mean that feels good to play there. Same as Swain, her audience is in the sup role, but 52% win rate as APC doesn't mean that she's good to play there.
ty for the video phreak
Baus gonna be stuck in Emerald with this one
come on I'm sure he can get d4!
Man, Phreak is such a blessing
You need to make sure that the price for killing a champion is dynamic, depending on its gpm since the last death.
Thanks for uploading ❤
I agree that Swain W is a crappy spell since you can only hit it alongside other CC (E), but I think his E is really good and very satisfying to land, it's by far my favorite skill on his kit. Yeah it's pretty unreliable (mainly at short range), but the payoff when you hit is huge. AoE root + knockback that also gives permanent health.
The main issues I have with Swain (aside from W being boring) are first of all that his trading can be very awkward, if you go in for a Q (which is short range) after landing E + W you're often opening yourself up to be counter bursted. This could be solved by making E stun, silence or give you speed boost after the pull. My second issue is that his E and Q are at their strongest when he's right at the battle line of a teamfight, he wants to have all opponents on one side of him for those spells to hit the most targets, but that's at odds with his ultimate which is strongest when he's positioned like a tank or bruiser in the middle of the enemies. This could be solved by capping the ultimate to drain 2 or 3 enemies, change the second activation to send out a wave forward instead of hitting in all directions, and/or make the second activation stronger the longer he stays alive in a fight.
Not even talking about Swain top when many like me only played him top
During ult, his E should become lissandras and let him reposition in fights
cant wait for Husum reaction legit
Personal take on bounties: When bounties were simply about kill streaks they felt a lot better than what we have today. Adding variables like exp, cs, gold lead and neutral objectives to the formula makes the game feel surgically rigged and less fair. I understand that this gives Riot more balance levers for comeback potential, but it seems so overly artificial that I don't think it's ever gonna feel good for the players.
For example, early game comps should have priority early and secure these resource as opposed to scaling comps. So why when an early game comp executes that goal, they get punished by giving the scaling comp a comeback paycheck, when the scaling comp already has built in comeback potential?
In short, giving too many kills has always been avoidable, so old bounties felt fair to me. With the current formula, bounties are not avoidable, it feels unfair.
*Love* how you're consistently reducing swain's healing in order to give him more burst. Oh and the optimal tactic of using Demonburst the moment it's off cooldown instead of stacking charges is a great move for the strategist fantasy. Are you sure keeping his identity as a battle mage wasn't a typo on your end?
Sarcasm aside, I'd suggest removing the healing from his passive, increasing the bonus hp from his passive, maintain the healing of his ult, increase hp ratio on his ult. If the power budget comes up short then consider making demon burst a soft cc and removing demonburst's damage.
I like the angle of trying to give swain's abilities more reliability. Checks off the goals of keeping him viable in all three roles and smoothing the parts of the kit that feel bad to use. The power shift from his ult to his qwe isn't bad, as it just increases his ability to trade during laning phase without drastically reducing his team fight presence.
I'm sad that you didn't have the animation budget to consolidate Swain's kit. W is completely out of place for a battle mage. Something closer to Hwei's Gaze of the Abyss would give stronger zone control and scouting at the cost of the half way across the map range. The current W is too punishing to use when champions can walk from one side and out the other before it bursts.
It's crazy that swain w isn't getting a change
Excited for swain changes !!!!
Phreak can you pls add a setting that inverts mouse button drag scroll
the Bausffs isn't going to like these changes
Can Qiyana get a revert her recent changes made her so bad and removed her big play making ult damage
The bounty changes seem like an indirect nerf to bot and jungle and an indirect buff to solo lanes.
Asking for a rylai's nerf on ranged champs and DoT abilities
Listen to an awesome objective: Make xp matter less not only in bounties but in game as well because the solo lanes snowball way harden than the duo lane and are always 2 level up if both lanes win. Just nerf the level up
can we have a passive-ult qiyana rework? it’s been 4 years that we otp are suffering and the last nerfs kinda stomped us
No K'sante?! (Megamind meme)
Hi phreak i love those patch review and thx for the timestamp ! Do you have any plans for the bruser class ?
Hey hello, i wonder what are your thoughts on midlane assassins? It feels to me like the class is intentionaly left bad and unable to do their job. Ignoring outliers like leblanc.
im looking forward to deadlock when it is playable. i still have league in my to play list. just havnt had time for gaming in a while.
Can you tune the minions based on average level so they actually push more obviously in one direction until the crash to a tower without champion interferrane mid-late game. I hate how the lanes hover and don't have a timer/macro attached to them any more
bounty system looks cool but it would be better at this point to show inb game the TOTAL gold gained from killing a champion and not only the bounty gold.
for example if you kill a 0/6/10 support in mid-late game it should be clear that you get only 100g (or if top gets permaganked).
Why not nerf Swain's R strength by making it a semi-toggle like before 2018 VGU? You could tune the numbers in any way you want and you won't gate Swain's most appealing ability behind a massive cooldown.
It seems weird to me how such an (already weak - at least in the feels) spell can be even more nerfed in terms of strength, AND you also put it in a 120 sec cooldown
Why not old Swain kit ? Battlemage, draintank, dotmage.
Any update on the yorick changes you mentioned earlier in the year?
Maybe I misunderstood the statement but farm bounties are not comparative now right? Does that mean both sides of a lane can have a bounty if no one dies until after 100 farm?
Who maxes Swain E second??? It gives literally nothing when compared to Q and W
Where Kraken slayer buff 14.21
Can't wait to seee
Well, glad we're not bringing back the crow laser Swain from the days of yore. I think it's a bit weird to focus on one champion when we've once again completely fucked up the state of bot lane as a whole...but I do think Swain is one of the champions that needs the attention. As long as we don't over shoot it and create another Skarner or Corki situation.
Bounty change goals are great as well. Really hope this patch successfully hits the mark. I will warn you, you need to be careful about screwing with the death streak reset mechanic. If getting a kill doesn't full reset a death streak, you could potentially be enabling The Bausen Law more than is ideal. However if getting CS partially resets the bounty so that someone like Baus becomes worth gold to kill repeatedly...that is also sketchy...It would combat Bausen Law, but it would also mean the guy who is hard feeding might feed more gold to the enemy team over time just by catching waves. Definitely a difficult and delicate balance here...especially since top lane champions tend to straight up scale better than other roles since they're all god damn stat sticks and stat checkers by default. REALLY hope the new system ends up working out though. Bounties have definitely been a sore point in League for a long time and it'll be nice if the system felt better.
Nice changes boss
You seem tired Phreak, try not to push it to hard and take some vacation mate you deserve it !
edit : would it be to strong if we were able to recast swain e to make move toward us when ever we want ?
Yes???????????
since hes suppose to be a close-range battle mage why not make his E recastable if someone is in your face like anivia Q?
My sister just started playing and asked a kind of interesting question: Why can't you see turret ranges? I couldn't think of a good answer so I guess I'm wondering Riot's reason. From my experience hiding it doesn't add anything. So many times i've had friends die and say "how was that in tower range", and then also even if you know it pixel for pixel... is that really a cool rewarding thing to know and use? I feel like it's just lame - but then the indicator is just a circle so idk, I wish it were incorporated into the terrain so it wasn't scuffed and was more clear.
I would guess it's bc it makes it WAY easier to guess tower dive ability for higher level players
It makes tower more of a safe place. As if everyone knew the range by heart dives would become far too easy and towers would lose even more of their defensiv value.
@@blisswinters2527 opposite, most high elo players know turret range well enough for any practical purposes. showing the actual range does two things: it moves higher and lower elo a bit closer in terms of how much information everyone is working with (id say thats a good thing, but one could argue the skill expression dance- i think its kinda eh skill expression though). It also means that tower diving and people hugging turret range becomes WAYYY more common in lower ranks. Most likely the part of the community that enjoys a more chill game, which is what low elo gameplay often is, would find their enjoyment generally lowered, meaning balance changes that would suck for higher skill brackets.
You can see turret ranges if you play against bots, which is what brand new players are expected to do. And yes, knowing what range things have is a rewarding skill to know, obviously, since you don't die to the turret and you can do cool things like attack from just outside its range, enter and exit the range in-between shots, juggle turret aggro when diving, etc. This skill goes beyond turrets too and applies to every ranged autoattack and spell in the game, knowing if you're within turret attack range is really no different from knowing if you're within Draven's attack range, and obviously we can't put range indicators on every champion.
Tower range changes based on champ size
here for Swain
I really dont like support Swain. Support Swain only really is a thing cause he was unviable in solo lanes before the rework, yet borderline OP in support(as his kit had way too much burst, despite wanting to be a "mage juggernaut" hybrid).
Then rework happened and many people just didn't adapt. As Phreak said: A decent chunk of them max E first. Have you read what E max does? Its only damage and not even a lot of it lol By far the worst skill to max.
But ranting aside, Swains problem is how his stacking mechanic scales harder with how bad your enemy is and less with how good you are at landing your Es. I feel like W max second works out pretty well actually - it has a fun strategic niche but mainly.. it just helps you keep enemies in your threat zone. It has a big reward for hitting, too - which you can enable either via threat, E or slows from R/Rylais.
Current Swains biggest problem is that he has trouble itemizing. He is very mana hungry, but he doesnt like the full-squishy mage mana items. That leaves only RoA - and RoA gives zero haste, no utility and has that very much "feel-bad" stacking mechanic for modern lol.
Before, mythic liandries was the perfect 1-stop-shop for Swain: Very good Haste, Mana, some AP and that %max health burn he needs.
There is blackfire torch now, but blackfire torch being more of an~ AP scaling burn 8is the problem: Swain doesnt and isnt supposed to build a ton of AP. There is malignance, but that item is very polarizing to use, as you feel completely useless without R. Swain wants to rush rylais+liandries
im not sure sacrificing the hp drain on his ult is the way, after all that is his champion fantasy a drain tank battle mage
I'm SO happy about the bounty changes, as someone relatively new and with experience on other similar games, it made no sense to me.
On another note, do drakes matter for bounties? They were omitted
Can a team be 3 drakes up or even have soul and they still wouldn't be more likely for the enemy team to get objective bounties?
Drakes count and are unchanged
Phreak was Warwick's q changed at all?
pls look further into assasins they are getting screwed in so many ways atm i wanna pick talon without feeling like I'm trolling
Hey Phreak quick question on the bounties. Is the firstblood gold handeld the same way as draven or pyke gold,?
And when will you buff Qiyana and AD Assassins instead of buffing their counters and making systematic change that makes them even worst
talon is weak, can we please do something about it? And it would be nice if we revert the systemic item nerfs as completing items used to feel more rewarding and it was more possible to carry incompetent teammates.
its funny swain going to his 674632345648780978687543213434rd midscope, but y'all refuse to fix kayle
kraken? :C
Please Phreak, pls fix Corki. I miss play him so much. Right now is almost useless to try with him 😢.
Swain is like a different version of Fiddlesticks 🤔🤔
Question: When Swain was first reworked he could tear Soul Shards out of champions that were CC'd by allies. Why not bring this back? Even if you need to nerf his passive scaling it's a lever that disproportionately affects Bot Lane, where there are twice as many champs, and doesn't really change anything about Mid or Top.
It was winmore and not skewed for solo lane swain
that would make him even more teamcomp reliant
It was giga broken or absolutely worthless...
You have a team of decent CC appliers? it's broken.
You have no CC on your team? It is worthless.
In League of Legends a core of the balance design is that champions should have agency of all of their abilities. The only exception to this is probably Yasuo ult. DotA2 is less shy of designing in a way that enables very specific hero interactions for example... I will never forget the horror that was "Tiny Bite"
@@Langharig_Tuig Well Yasuo has agency in his ultimate if he’s able to land a nado at least
@@Keurgui1 And the same was true for Swain with his E. But it's generally a really bad design, at least in League of Legends.
Another example of that bad dependent design is Nilah. Pair her with an enchanter supp and she is strong or at least balanced, pair her with any other support and youre effectively griefing...
Due to the Item Cataclysm patch, Bruiser champion Rek'Sai became ambiguous.
Please roll back to the previous e skill fixed damage.
Level 1 Rek'Sai's attack power in the jungle is 58, which is a seriously low number and is at the level of a utility champion.
Lee Sin attack power 69 at level 1 after buff 3 attack power
Rek'Sai's current attack power is 58 at level 1.
There is an 11 difference in attack power. It makes no sense.
Rek'Sai is seriously weak right now.
Dont comment more times just because your a delusional rek'sai main, you only look stupid. Read the stats, rek'sai has a 51.5% winrate which is more than 3% higher than lee sin. If anything, lee sin should get buffed and rek'sai get nerfed.
So the balance direction is?
Bruh. Riot is so unfair for what they did to Evelynn. She's not balanced, she's just weak. Would be so good if they will revert her nerfs. Riot should push the players to learn how to play against evelynn and to push the players to be more cautious,and to have more map awareness, rather than making Evelynn weak and pushing a lot of players to quit playing Evelynn. This is so irrational and unfair.
Sorry but it's just me or the volume is a bit low since the last video?
Sounds like this is maybe a buff to int sion? No longer resets his bounty on kill or assist if i am understanding.
Also the lesser value for multiple ganks on same lane is interesting
I believe a lot of the idea behind inting sion is to gain a gold lead by exploiting the ability to gain more gold than the enemy while conceding low gold kill values.
It's just a gold game: Baus gains 500 gold, gives 100 gold.
My understanding is that since gold is now the primary factor for bounties, I'd expect baus to have a harder time with his strategy. However, it really relies on the specific numbers and I didn't do the math.
When can Kled build bruiser again? %health damage being calculated from his AND Skaarl's HP bars means building HP works against him, forcing him into assassin builds. Briar, Aatrox and Red Kayn were changed to encourage bruiser builds, Kled should be too. A bruiser should be allowed to build bruiser despite a Rioter losing to tank Kled in season 12.
AATROX W TRIGGER SYSTEM DOESNT WORK AT THE EDGE OF W AREA PLS FIX
Spamganking enemy top will still make them mad and run down or troll so i prob will continue to do that so we have a 5v4 adventage
But everything else very good changes i like them👍
Name me another dev doing it like Phreak. I will wait.
are you forget to patch "Zoe"? plz delete the "hydra series" in W(spell theif) skill.
Swain W could probably be a strongish passive with a weaker activation.
Passive ideas I got:
Movespeed like teemo
All abilities can slow like a weaker ashe passive,
Passive omnivamp on w (nerf him tho)
Aatrox q with old aurelian sol vibe 2+ actvations of different distances for each activation on his w.
W passive that gives swain damage reduction or armour or mr based on max health or ap.
Kled passive but last hit is an aoe explosion that does low damage slows and scales with ap and lower max health damage scaling
Do i understand correctly that your bounty from dying decreases solely based off how much gold you give away? Or is there also a comparative system to like how much more or less gold you've earned than your laner or your team than their team?
As you die you give less gold away and that means the enemy gains less bounty for repeat killing the same person who is already dumpstered.
I think the bounty system is too convoluted, why not just make it based on the gold on champ/team?
it is? its how much gold does a champion have on and mostly kill streaks generate them faster.
Swain shuold be top lane champ in first place. I dont understand why would u target him for bot lane before top.
The game is snowballing bc rito gaming allow top jg or mid to arrive at LVL 18 to fast and me as a support lvl 12 can't do anything to stop this monstrosity - every game enemy top mid jg is lvl 18 - 10/0 and u cant do anything - you kill the interest to play this game anymore - make everyone equal - make skill expresion game !! Not LVL DIFF GAME 😢
Seraphine next because she flopped hard. She could definitely use the "new ability" midscope you mentioned. Her Q and W need some major updates. Q worthless for support and W is genuinely problematic
Seraphine needs to be reverted, all this reworking for a role she was never designed for but forced now forced on riot.
@@jasoncrosby9558 reverting fixes nothing because they clearly prioritize support now. You revert her and she's even worse than now for majority of her players. What she was initially designed for is irrelevant now
Stop making champion viable in every role .. 1 or 2 role is sufficient - riot idiots over complicating things
Hello Pheark, can you pls buff Azir hes so bad right now
Wish riot wouldnt force him bot and make him a toplaner again 😔
Aren't the E changes removing a lot of counter play? (faster + wider explosion)
I'm assuming power is being taken out of other parts of his kit but we just don't have the specific numbers.
Cause man 3x damage on e + faster projectile with no other nerfs would be wild on a 53% wr support.
@@Lkabss 53% wr as APC not supp. He also has a 1% pickrate so keep in mind majority of the people playing swain are one tricks who know the champ causing the wr to be inflated
@Gabri0n-0 ah true, just looked at the stats.
Yeah swain shouldn't be 48% wr support... god that kinda sucks.
Please look at his debuff in aram. Swain is nerfed way too hard
I feel like a new ability is needed on this champ. His kit is very bad.
Phreak u need a visit to turkey
Bro can u ffs pls look into Veigar? U rework and update champs that dont need them asap but u still ignore him. Rn he is a bad Asol. Nothing else. Pls change that and give him a real identity bc he no longer is that scaling suoer mage anymore. Thats syndra and asol. Also both do waaay more dmg agaibst tanks, which feels really bad
Hello phreak I am so confused, so I don’t understand why seraphine didn’t get the same treatment as swain. Seraphine was released as a midlaner as swain, high pickrate support all over especially low elo. And is only picked by mains in carry roles. Same with seraphine, why is she getting shoved support and not make her better in the midlane. The only way the fully play seraphine right now is in botlane because you made her lose identity. Please make her great mid and people will play her.
I agree with your point but she got the exact same treatment as swain. They are buffing swain in support role and nerfing the farming portion of his kit, as they did with seraphine with nerfing her waveclear and gold-scaling damage while buffing her supporting powers. Both champions got the same treatment because most players played those champions in the support role rather than mid or adc even though the winrate said they are worse in support. Therefore he wants the majority of playerbase to feel satisfied with the champions in the role most play them in.
And yes i also miss seraphine mid but the change makes sense
@@olaskaar4140 she’s only in support, because she’s a girl with pink hair and a sheild. Every low elo player compared her to sona and played her there lowering her winrate in support for the longest. And if that’s the case, Lux should be treated as such too. It’s not fair for players or mains who have played a champion in their correct position for years, only for it to be changed for players who simply can’t read abilities and how they scale. Just gross.
@@jasoncrosby9558 lux is played as a poke mage in support role while seraphine is as an enchanter so lux mid cant get nerfed as seraphine since the nerf would also affect lux support as much
@@jasoncrosby9558 its fair for MAJORITY OF PLAYERBASE since they play her support, and its most fair that majority of playerbase can determine which role the champion should get tuned after
Just bring back old swain