"When I became an atheist, I became a better Christian (more Christlike) than most Christians." Well said Dr. Pinn. Thank you Matt and Anthony for this. Cheers!
They meant that people have the ability to compartmentalize their thinking: "logic and reason for this and that... but this right here is out of the question."
The primary thing that made Hip-Hop appealing was that it connected with the struggles that people actually lived and felt. No matter where in the world they lived. As long as some atheists still treat this whole issue as a primarily academic debate and then tell people "Here are the facts, now just go deal with it", humanism will not be appealing. But if we, like Dr. Pinn said, look at where people are at right now, socially/economically/emotionally, and we tell them how humanism connects to their needs and interests, how it argues for equal rights and opportunities, how it offers a sense of meaning that gives us a reason to not just endure struggles but to work towards societies in which we all have the opportunity to embrace life right here and now, it might become a lot more appealing.
I believe I will need to watch this video a few more times - the reason being that I need to tone down my own atheistic rhetoric. It is maddening at times to see an otherwise intelligent person default to faith, and not question their mental capacity. I guess it bothers me to see people throwing away their lives and resources on what I consider to be utter nonsense. I'm not very PC or diplomatic about the subject of gods and religion, but I find my attitude to be harming me more than helping them. I don't like being mean.
I'm the same. It's so hard to resist blatantly attacking absolute nonsense in the bible. Rib women. Magical trees. Talking snakes. Talking donkeys. Telepathy. Conjuring food. Levitation. Clairvoyance. Witches. Warlocks. Wizards. Dragons. Unicorns. Zombies. It's full of utter nonsense.
Perhaps the Socratic approach could help you in the same, indirect way it's helped me. I don't usually try converting people to atheism though, I truly feel it's a journey they have to agree to take.
I like the comparison during the end of the video how Hip-Hop culture has gained a world-wide audience and acceptance, despite the fact that it has originated from a socially despised, deprived and even abandoned minority group... and how Atheism didn't. Wow - that was strong.
Problem is you can make the same comparison with any new arts movement in history, the origins of Rock and Roll was exactly the same, It was despised and diverse then went global and had one of the biggest impacts on culture during the 60s and 70s thanks to the roots laid in the 50s.
Craig Brainimpact Correct. But I think the point here was to show that this fact, trivial as it may be, is not self-evident nor particulary internalized by today's society. The coincidence that it may or may not apply to other examples aswell does not militate against it's effect nor validity.
***** I disagree b/c one is full of sexism, homophobia and violence, how can Humanism or Atheism market itself based on how hip hop did it when it panders to bigots for their fame.
Craig Brainimpact You are of course right with what you said. However, it is not evidently clear to me, why one couldn't merely acknowledge the ironic controversy behind Dr. Pinn's conclusion about the matter, regardless to whether or not one is actively endorsing or sympathizing with the apparent nature of Hip-Hop music and what it is associated with. Is this respect, your position on Hip-Hop music should in principle not conflict with Dr. Pinn's harmless insight.
So many great insights here! I especially appreciated his comment that rational people can hold destructive idea and engage in destructive practices. "Logic and reason is not a prophylactic against stupid shit," I think was his exact quote! Also, his thoughts on what religion is and does in communities were spot on! Thank you!
Dr.Pinn was a fantastic person to listen too. Very down to Earth and relatable. What I noticed isn't brought up too often on why people are religious is the immense guilt and bleak look on life before and even after conversion. They also seem to salivate at the idea of redemption from said guilt/confusion which has me highly question the motive for their faith to begin with. Also a tendency to listen to an authority without question which is probably something taught to them as children even if they had non religious parents.
The argument that stuck with me is that Deists and Agnostics also held slaves. Logically, this argument is totally lame. While a perfect, unique god has a very high bar to jump because of his omniscient nature, a Deist intellectual only has to be better than the average for his society and times. The American Forefathers and the Encyclopedians in France, and others, gave a necessary step towards universal prohibition of slavery, even if they did not walk the whole mile themselves. But every day that "god" did not write "No More Slavery" in the sky made him a willing participant. But Sociologically, there are unsettling aspects in the argument. We, the humans, are not logical machines by nature. We are survival machines. And one tool of this survival imperative is that we have a creed. We do not arrive at our creed by logical inference or deduction. We receive it from our parents or society. When we even admit the need to question our creed we are not making a logical argument, we are attacking the creed and therefore we are attacking the most elementary building blocks of our society. Going back to the Deists and the slaves, we have to show that there is a place for the better logical argument without shaking the foundations of our society and without having to enter survival mode. We have to show that religion is not a required block of the foundation. I can only imagine that a solid black community somewhere that prospers and has some prominent atheists is the only way to get there.
Wow, an atheist outreaching using hip hop, no wonder so many black Christians despise him. Anthony Pinn certainly made for the best interview thus far in this series. Matt Dillahunty did a great job asking relevant and timely questions to make this interview feel similar to a conversation.
As a Black person and recent atheist/skeptic myself, I really appreciate your platforming of members of this community who are addressing the uncomfortable intersection of humanities race and religion.
Terrific interview. Dr. Pinn is a wonderful speaker. Any chance of seeing him at a future Skepticon event? I think, as a whole, the atheist community hungers for more diversity. We are sorely under-represented in most demographics. While we see more women, ex-Muslims and African-Americans openly admitting their atheism, it seems we could be a lot more welcoming. Knowing there is a like-minded community anxious to embrace them can do a lot to help closet-atheists of all ethnicities, genders and cultures.
Thank you so much for providing this! Dr. Anthony Pinn and best atheist debater Matt Dillahunty provide such a rich groundwork for further study and debate in this quick time frame. I admire both of them very much and they exceeded my expectations in this conversation. Not quite sure of Matt's position on Hip hop as a force for global good and change, one of my best friends is a humanist musician and his approach to hip hop is almost... Shamanistic. As in, appreciating the animilistic nature without disregarding the human one. I think it's too unfounded by science for Matt's full weighty approach to arguments. Dr. Pinn, regardless of how much he resembles Russell Simmons, has WAY more food for thought and interesting approaches to deeply ingrained religiosity in black culture. Fucking awesome about his collaboration with a hip hop artist in a free online course intermingling the both. I'm always seeking ways and methods of approach to bring more of my family and culture into the humanistic ideals without the tragic loss of family and tradition which it usually costs when a smart black man abandons the foundation of his culture. GREAT WORK both of you. I would LOVE and pay greatly to see you both onstage and in a conversation, mostly unscripted, like this.
I'm interested if there are any books/videos on the psychology of why Christians get angry when they hear that someone is an atheist. I think it's more than a Christian feeling indignant that someone has denied the existence of their god.
Damien Zellers I'd say has more to do with the idea of an unpredictable element (the atheist) threatening a peaceful order they enjoy (The idea that religion is what makes people moral) they think that you just want to do whatever you want to. Also the emotional connection the individuals have to their object of worship, to the level where the existence of it is indisputable to them also contributes. There's also the anger at your impudence in questioning the being that "made" you. Like "biting the hand that feeds you." They see the individual as unappreciative and evil.
Damien Zellers, Kofi Ashiadey is closer to the origin. The part of our brain that in some people tends to believe in the supernatural is connected to the part we use to identify ourselves. So 1) if you tell a theist who has suppressed doubts about there theism that there is no god, you are threatening their belief. If that is correct, then the people who get the angriest have more potential for deconversion. 2) You are threatening their identity. So for some, saying there is no god is like saying that person is not who s/he thinks s/he is.
It's because they are aware that it doesn't look intelligent under the spotlight and atheist will take a critical look at it. They know we can espouse more rationally on it than they can so they need to quiet us before we get others listening to our take. Ridiculous beliefs cannot stand to be lonely, they need as many non critics as possible and the only way one will be non critical about it (even if tacitly) is by sharing the belief. This is illustrated nicely by the fact that the believer is far more threatened by nonbelief than other beliefs. Other blind believers can't call their irrational, but nonbelievers can
It's not the Hip Hop. It's music. All people are effected in deep ways throw music. It's not the message either. It's again the music. Hip Hop generally is the most basic form of music. I.E it uses the most basic and natural form of sound. This is very attractive to people in general.
As far as learning from Hip-Hop's success is concerned, emphasizing the value of making facts emotionally appealing through art is simply the most important point. But, crucially, it also teaches the relevance of authenticity: Art has to be done well in order to connect with people. It can't be a lame copy of something else. It can't be emotionally inauthentic. It has to be imaginative and not too much on the nose (e.g. you won't necessarily succeed with songs that just present humanist views in the mos direct and boring way possible, just like many Christian rap songs are just embarrassing to listen to.) You have to be clever. For humanists, I think, one of the primary opportunities to deliver humanist views through art is to continue to connect it to the wonders of science. In other words, many modern science shows do a great job of presenting scientific insights from an emotionally appealing perspective: Curiosity, adventure, progress, well-being, intelligence, solving puzzles, deeper understanding, the beauty of complexity. All these things are emotionally appealing aspect of successful science programs...and all of what these programs teach is obviously the immediate foundation of what atheism and humanism is build on. So one of the best ways to make humanism appealing is to start with the appeal of science and with the understanding and freedom that comes with it as well as the opportunities it offers for a mature view on life and what to do with it.
Great interview. Thank you. We need to make atheists and secularists more and more visible within communities of people of color (and beyond ) to let them know that social justice and a life of dignity can be achieved outside the confines of religion. Dr. Pinn tells it like it is. 27:25, yes it's true. If humanists do not address the social issues churches address then how do humanists expect these communities to abandon theism?
good interview I like Professor Pinn--very articulate speaker. Matt you need to figure out what kind of microphone you are using--some pick up a voice if the person moves away from it others need to have the person directly speaking into it which must be what you are using and not realizing how you need to speak into it since you often sounds miles away and hard to hear
I am so completely out of step with hip-hop. I consider myself something of an audiophile, but my depression has such that my playlist is filled with music having no lyrics or singing. Jeff Beck, for example, or the multitude of older jazz compilations. I much prefer instrumental music to regular songs with singing. My loss, I know.
At 27:11 the mention of Ferguson totally was off putting, in that a robbery thug wanting to violently engage law enforcement, is an issue to bring up in the conversation.
I'd never really thought about the African American community in terms of a resistance to the enlightenment the way Dr Pinn put it. The philosophical stuff that underlies the way people are seems both important and, in a lot of ways, invisible. For instance, Plato left a legacy on religion, especially during Medieval times; yet, most medieval European citizens wouldn't have known much (if anything) about Plato or his philosophy. I suspect similar stuff is going on with Dr Pinn's reference of the enlightenment, as is the case with how westerners currently consume Aristotle.
Thanks Matt, I'll have to pay a little more attention to Hip Hop. Agree that things like Ferguson and the cascade of injustices that many people in this country live with day to day needs to be addressed. Atheists should be a vocal part of the efforts to create more social and economic justice in our country. Unfortunately, atheism, not being a creed, is a weak banner under which to unite. As Tony aluded to, let's strive to have our actions advocate for our values... and then... by the way... I'm an Atheist too! TH
I think we should start using the term Non Believer instead of atheist. I find the term atheist has too much baggage associated with it, and no one really knows what it means. It's become synonymous with:" people that just hate religion." I don't really like being labeled as something, but if someone asked me how I in identify myself I'm going to start saying I'm a non believer.
So this video grabbed All types of attention, I'm. Black, Big fan of the atheist. Experience and Matt Dillahunty, and enormous fan of hip hop and believe that it is the ultimate tool in empowering black culture, where this video got interesting for me was when he mentioned the hip hop and Christianity class. While I think that is tremendously awesome and unique, I think the commercialization of hip hop has been detrimental to black culture. Black people don't own the record companies or even the songs a lot of times. So how did Hip Hop get big, white Corporations bought the culture and package it to send negative messages of what success is for a young black person. Popularizing drug culture, strippers, materialism is part of a white supremacist plan to keep blacks poor and imprisoned. So the popularization of Hip-hop has had major negative impact because unlike he spoke, hip hop does not control what message to be said in their music, they are bought like slaves and pimped to keep a culture poor and 2nd class ie new Jim Crow
Raymond Lee Very interesting post.. I have a few questions if you don't mind. You think the general Hip Hop message is negative? Or just that corporations have marketed well only negative Hip Hop? Do you really think there was intention by record company owners to keep black people down through the popularization of their own music? You say Hip Hop artists don't control what message is being sent in their music. How do you know that?
Mark Case ok, thanks for the questions first off..I will address each of them. first, No I don't think the general message in hip hop is negative, but I do think the Majority of the images and messages marketed are overwhelmingly negative. So that kind of answers the 2nd question you asked cause yes their are some very talented positive and progressive artist that are not marketed with the same investment. As far as the intention of record companies, this question is a little more harder to defend my statements, but I have tied some strings together and have seen reports of record companies involvement with private prisons. Record business in general is tough and most artist are not profitable based off record sales. Now the popularization of hip hop on a global scale began early 90's to mid 90's in parallel was the emergence of "Gangster Rap" so it did seem quite odd that Hip Hop had been around since mid 70's and released as commercial art since 78 that their was enormous push after this quote "Gangster Rap" emerged. When Hip Hop was about Love, Peace, unity, and having fun as the architect Afrika Bambata laid down the principles there were not a lot of corporate support even into the 80s when they would not award the Rap Grammy on TV. Since then it has dominated entertainment, but the overall perception of the music has changed due to the targeted message. Now the over-saturation of these messages creates demonized caricature just as the Minstrel show did in the early 1900s Black stereotypes have always came from media. I am fan of Hip Hop and ambassador of the culture, and I notice the knee jerk reaction from people outside the culture, which stems from their manufactured perception from media. Now last questions I did not have to put together or draw my own conclusions based off of evidence and speculation. Artist have spoke out of what the record companies demand from them. Artist such as "David Banner" has spoken out against the industry as to how not only being treated like property and not having creative control over his music, but his image down to the clothes that he wore was all authorized by his label. BET aka Black Entertainment Television had a list of Hip Hop artist that were not allowed to be on their programming due to their music being "Too intelligent" for their audience. which again points to the intent to target these messages to black people
The Ubuntu philosophical tradition is humanist, so there ARE African humanisms ... and the philosophy of pleasure was born in North Africa on the city of Cyrene (the Cyrenaics), and among the ancient Epicurean Scholarchs, Laertius mentions two from Alexandria named Ptolomee the White and Ptolomee the Black, ergo there have been black philosophers from Mediterranean antiquity
The mic dropping out on the interviewer's questions makes it impossible to hear the question at times, and the captions provide no delineation to make it clear which party is speaking which words. Excellent video however.
I could be wrong here, but isn't an African American church-goer saying that non-belief isn't "black" a racist statement? If so, then how is it acceptable for this to be the prevailing attitude?
![Churches for the Godless? [feat. Dr. Anthony Pinn]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/faRdcfrFEBc/mqdefault.jpg)
![Churches for the Godless? [feat. Dr. Anthony Pinn]](/img/tr.png)
"When I became an atheist, I became a better Christian (more Christlike) than most Christians." Well said Dr. Pinn. Thank you Matt and Anthony for this. Cheers!
Great interview. Dr pinn has a very sensible and upbeat attitude. I'm surprised I've never heard him before. Hope we hear more from him.
"Logic and reason are not a prophylactic against stupid shit."
Truth.
I think they are.
They meant that people have the ability to compartmentalize their thinking: "logic and reason for this and that... but this right here is out of the question."
"When I became an atheist, I was a better Christian than most Christians" What a great quote!
Anthony is a brilliant man. He gets it.
This is music to my atheist ears, more of these discussions please Matt.
The primary thing that made Hip-Hop appealing was that it connected with the struggles that people actually lived and felt. No matter where in the world they lived.
As long as some atheists still treat this whole issue as a primarily academic debate and then tell people "Here are the facts, now just go deal with it", humanism will not be appealing. But if we, like Dr. Pinn said, look at where people are at right now, socially/economically/emotionally, and we tell them how humanism connects to their needs and interests, how it argues for equal rights and opportunities, how it offers a sense of meaning that gives us a reason to not just endure struggles but to work towards societies in which we all have the opportunity to embrace life right here and now, it might become a lot more appealing.
Probably the biggest takeaway from this talk. Good point!
What a cool guy. It would be great to see more of him.
Wow! Great interview! This was my introduction to Dr. Pinn, and I'm an instant fan. What a great thinker. Thanks for doing this, Matt!
I believe I will need to watch this video a few more times - the reason being that I need to tone down my own atheistic rhetoric. It is maddening at times to see an otherwise intelligent person default to faith, and not question their mental capacity. I guess it bothers me to see people throwing away their lives and resources on what I consider to be utter nonsense. I'm not very PC or diplomatic about the subject of gods and religion, but I find my attitude to be harming me more than helping them. I don't like being mean.
Same. My aim is, or rather U would like my aim to be, to just make them think. But I often find myself just trying to beat them.
Recommend you learn street epistemology. I'm trying to get the hang of it but I have a long way to go.
People already throw their lives away at utter nonsense, it's called entertainment and wanting to feel good through getting things and doing things.
I'm the same. It's so hard to resist blatantly attacking absolute nonsense in the bible. Rib women. Magical trees. Talking snakes. Talking donkeys. Telepathy. Conjuring food. Levitation. Clairvoyance. Witches. Warlocks. Wizards. Dragons. Unicorns. Zombies. It's full of utter nonsense.
Perhaps the Socratic approach could help you in the same, indirect way it's helped me. I don't usually try converting people to atheism though, I truly feel it's a journey they have to agree to take.
I like the comparison during the end of the video how Hip-Hop culture has gained a world-wide audience and acceptance, despite the fact that it has originated from a socially despised, deprived and even abandoned minority group... and how Atheism didn't. Wow - that was strong.
Problem is you can make the same comparison with any new arts movement in history, the origins of Rock and Roll was exactly the same, It was despised and diverse then went global and had one of the biggest impacts on culture during the 60s and 70s thanks to the roots laid in the 50s.
Craig Brainimpact Correct. But I think the point here was to show that this fact, trivial as it may be, is not self-evident nor particulary internalized by today's society. The coincidence that it may or may not apply to other examples aswell does not militate against it's effect nor validity.
Jazz came from that same despised group as well. It's a shame that only music can cross "borders" so well.
***** I disagree b/c one is full of sexism, homophobia and violence, how can Humanism or Atheism market itself based on how hip hop did it when it panders to bigots for their fame.
Craig Brainimpact You are of course right with what you said. However, it is not evidently clear to me, why one couldn't merely acknowledge the ironic controversy behind Dr. Pinn's conclusion about the matter, regardless to whether or not one is actively endorsing or sympathizing with the apparent nature of Hip-Hop music and what it is associated with. Is this respect, your position on Hip-Hop music should in principle not conflict with Dr. Pinn's harmless insight.
Totally relate to that part about people treating you as if you were losing your blackness.
Man, I love listening to intelligent people. Thanks for this Matt.
IAM inteligunt. U wun lasten ta Mei tew ??
So many great insights here! I especially appreciated his comment that rational people can hold destructive idea and engage in destructive practices. "Logic and reason is not a prophylactic against stupid shit," I think was his exact quote! Also, his thoughts on what religion is and does in communities were spot on! Thank you!
What a breath of fresh air, a genuine pleasure to watch , not come across Mr Pinn before but well said that man
This guy's great. I'll follow more of his work now that I know about him.
This guy said something i've been saying for years.
"Why would you embrace the religion that enslaved you?!" but he makes a good point about it.
He forgot to mention MLK (oh yeah he was a Christian) leave him out and focus on hip hop instead. How is that not illogical?
Tom Bailey For CS, give up about MLK already. You can have your own interview and talk about him!
This interview was so good. Really enjoyed this...
seems a very decent man
What an intelligent and interesting person ... Anthony Pinn, you rock !
Thanks for introducing me to the ideas of Dr. Pinn. I am eager to hear more of his work.
Dr.Pinn was a fantastic person to listen too. Very down to Earth and relatable. What I noticed isn't brought up too often on why people are religious is the immense guilt and bleak look on life before and even after conversion. They also seem to salivate at the idea of redemption from said guilt/confusion which has me highly question the motive for their faith to begin with. Also a tendency to listen to an authority without question which is probably something taught to them as children even if they had non religious parents.
I think this is a good format. I hope Matt does more of these.
From the black , atheist , vegan in the UK . Love you brother Anthony ,powerful interview Matt .
I can definitely relate to this--growing up Baptist with the church family.
The argument that stuck with me is that Deists and Agnostics also held slaves.
Logically, this argument is totally lame. While a perfect, unique god has a very high bar to jump because of his omniscient nature, a Deist intellectual only has to be better than the average for his society and times. The American Forefathers and the Encyclopedians in France, and others, gave a necessary step towards universal prohibition of slavery, even if they did not walk the whole mile themselves. But every day that "god" did not write "No More Slavery" in the sky made him a willing participant.
But Sociologically, there are unsettling aspects in the argument. We, the humans, are not logical machines by nature. We are survival machines. And one tool of this survival imperative is that we have a creed. We do not arrive at our creed by logical inference or deduction. We receive it from our parents or society. When we even admit the need to question our creed we are not making a logical argument, we are attacking the creed and therefore we are attacking the most elementary building blocks of our society.
Going back to the Deists and the slaves, we have to show that there is a place for the better logical argument without shaking the foundations of our society and without having to enter survival mode. We have to show that religion is not a required block of the foundation. I can only imagine that a solid black community somewhere that prospers and has some prominent atheists is the only way to get there.
Wow, an atheist outreaching using hip hop, no wonder so many black Christians despise him.
Anthony Pinn certainly made for the best interview thus far in this series. Matt Dillahunty did a great job asking relevant and timely questions to make this interview feel similar to a conversation.
Absolutely fantastic,fascinating and freeing. Thanx to both of you for talking and letting us listen.
"Theology responds to experience". Well put.
I just came to know about Dr. Pinn today from our local news paper and immediately I searched in RUclips and found this video, thank you.
Wow! What an insightful informative interview! All the likes!
A fascinating and informative interview.
So true! :)
Seems like a really nice guy.
Nice guys finish last. I'm an alpha male ..hear me roar!!
Thank you Mr. Dillahunty and Dr. Pinn. Thank you.
As a Black person and recent atheist/skeptic myself, I really appreciate your platforming of members of this community who are addressing the uncomfortable intersection of humanities race and religion.
Terrific interview. Dr. Pinn is a wonderful speaker. Any chance of seeing him at a future Skepticon event?
I think, as a whole, the atheist community hungers for more diversity. We are sorely under-represented in most demographics. While we see more women, ex-Muslims and African-Americans openly admitting their atheism, it seems we could be a lot more welcoming. Knowing there is a like-minded community anxious to embrace them can do a lot to help closet-atheists of all ethnicities, genders and cultures.
Thank-you Matt, I really enjoyed you talk with Anthony Pinn. I will be looking forward to another talk with him.
Paul
This guy was awesome. Also, those glasses are amazing. I couldn't stop staring at where the temples connect to the frame. So classy.
Anthony seems like a real chill guy , very easy to talk with
I really enjoyed this interview with Dr Pinn. His argument about Hip-Hop is compelling. I have a lot to learn -- I look forward to learning more!
Thank you, Dr. Pinn.
This was absolutely brilliant! Thanks for sharing :) I am really interested in the online course on Hip Hop and Theism. It sounds fascinating.
Wow, great interview!
Thank you so much for providing this! Dr. Anthony Pinn and best atheist debater Matt Dillahunty provide such a rich groundwork for further study and debate in this quick time frame. I admire both of them very much and they exceeded my expectations in this conversation. Not quite sure of Matt's position on Hip hop as a force for global good and change, one of my best friends is a humanist musician and his approach to hip hop is almost... Shamanistic. As in, appreciating the animilistic nature without disregarding the human one. I think it's too unfounded by science for Matt's full weighty approach to arguments. Dr. Pinn, regardless of how much he resembles Russell Simmons, has WAY more food for thought and interesting approaches to deeply ingrained religiosity in black culture. Fucking awesome about his collaboration with a hip hop artist in a free online course intermingling the both. I'm always seeking ways and methods of approach to bring more of my family and culture into the humanistic ideals without the tragic loss of family and tradition which it usually costs when a smart black man abandons the foundation of his culture. GREAT WORK both of you. I would LOVE and pay greatly to see you both onstage and in a conversation, mostly unscripted, like this.
Great interview. Very thoughtful !!!
Good that you are taking care of yourself, Matt. You changed alot!
Im so mad I'm now seeing this. Thanks for this
Very insightful. Thank you for introducing me to Dr. Pinn.
this was much better hearing both you and them
This is superb, Matt. It's a fascinating interview! I think I've learned something here. Thank-you.
I'm very impressed with Dr. Pinn. Great interview thanks.
I'm interested if there are any books/videos on the psychology of why Christians get angry when they hear that someone is an atheist. I think it's more than a Christian feeling indignant that someone has denied the existence of their god.
Damien Zellers I'd say has more to do with the idea of an unpredictable element (the atheist) threatening a peaceful order they enjoy (The idea that religion is what makes people moral) they think that you just want to do whatever you want to. Also the emotional connection the individuals have to their object of worship, to the level where the existence of it is indisputable to them also contributes. There's also the anger at your impudence in questioning the being that "made" you. Like "biting the hand that feeds you." They see the individual as unappreciative and evil.
Damien Zellers, Kofi Ashiadey is closer to the origin. The part of our brain that in some people tends to believe in the supernatural is connected to the part we use to identify ourselves. So 1) if you tell a theist who has suppressed doubts about there theism that there is no god, you are threatening their belief. If that is correct, then the people who get the angriest have more potential for deconversion.
2) You are threatening their identity. So for some, saying there is no god is like saying that person is not who s/he thinks s/he is.
It's because they are aware that it doesn't look intelligent under the spotlight and atheist will take a critical look at it. They know we can espouse more rationally on it than they can so they need to quiet us before we get others listening to our take. Ridiculous beliefs cannot stand to be lonely, they need as many non critics as possible and the only way one will be non critical about it (even if tacitly) is by sharing the belief. This is illustrated nicely by the fact that the believer is far more threatened by nonbelief than other beliefs. Other blind believers can't call their irrational, but nonbelievers can
A very nice guy with many insights!
Loved it. Thought this was a great wee interview. Have been loving this series :)
Really great post - Thanks!
Wow! What an impressive guy Dr Pinn is. Great interview.
I dare say one of your best guests or interviews yet. This dude is clear as glass.
Have a GROOVY Day
The/\ssHole/\theist
Kudos to Matt and Anthony.
Is James Tour, the Discovery Institute guy, still a colleague of yours? I'm so sorry. All the best, Dr. Pinn! You're a reason to attend Rice.
Am I the only one that put this in 1080 just so the book titles would be visible?
It's not the Hip Hop. It's music. All people are effected in deep ways throw music. It's not the message either. It's again the music. Hip Hop generally is the most basic form of music. I.E it uses the most basic and natural form of sound. This is very attractive to people in general.
*affected
Really great interview - thanks Matt & AE
As far as learning from Hip-Hop's success is concerned, emphasizing the value of making facts emotionally appealing through art is simply the most important point. But, crucially, it also teaches the relevance of authenticity: Art has to be done well in order to connect with people. It can't be a lame copy of something else. It can't be emotionally inauthentic. It has to be imaginative and not too much on the nose (e.g. you won't necessarily succeed with songs that just present humanist views in the mos direct and boring way possible, just like many Christian rap songs are just embarrassing to listen to.) You have to be clever. For humanists, I think, one of the primary opportunities to deliver humanist views through art is to continue to connect it to the wonders of science. In other words, many modern science shows do a great job of presenting scientific insights from an emotionally appealing perspective: Curiosity, adventure, progress, well-being, intelligence, solving puzzles, deeper understanding, the beauty of complexity. All these things are emotionally appealing aspect of successful science programs...and all of what these programs teach is obviously the immediate foundation of what atheism and humanism is build on. So one of the best ways to make humanism appealing is to start with the appeal of science and with the understanding and freedom that comes with it as well as the opportunities it offers for a mature view on life and what to do with it.
Brilliant
I found this video to be very pleasant, and very interesting. Thank you for sharing :)
That was interesting.
Great interview. Thank you. We need to make atheists and secularists more and more visible within communities of people of color (and beyond ) to let them know that social justice and a life of dignity can be achieved outside the confines of religion. Dr. Pinn tells it like it is. 27:25, yes it's true. If humanists do not address the social issues churches address then how do humanists expect these communities to abandon theism?
good interview I like Professor Pinn--very articulate speaker. Matt you need to figure out what kind of microphone you are using--some pick up a voice if the person moves away from it others need to have the person directly speaking into it which must be what you are using and not realizing how you need to speak into it since you often sounds miles away and hard to hear
Bun B teaching a university course???!!! Fact is indeed stranger than fiction lol.
wonderful interview- I learned a lot.
Thank you for this video.
I am so completely out of step with hip-hop. I consider myself something of an audiophile, but my depression has such that my playlist is filled with music having no lyrics or singing. Jeff Beck, for example, or the multitude of older jazz compilations. I much prefer instrumental music to regular songs with singing. My loss, I know.
At 27:11 the mention of Ferguson totally was off putting, in that a robbery thug wanting to violently engage law enforcement, is an issue to bring up in the conversation.
I'd never really thought about the African American community in terms of a resistance to the enlightenment the way Dr Pinn put it. The philosophical stuff that underlies the way people are seems both important and, in a lot of ways, invisible. For instance, Plato left a legacy on religion, especially during Medieval times; yet, most medieval European citizens wouldn't have known much (if anything) about Plato or his philosophy. I suspect similar stuff is going on with Dr Pinn's reference of the enlightenment, as is the case with how westerners currently consume Aristotle.
This guy, Pinn, is great but I find it difficult to believe his assertion that he's ever personally dislkeable.
Live without titles and none of this exist.
Amazing. Loved it.
Very smart guy, opened my mind to a few things.
Thanks Matt, I'll have to pay a little more attention to Hip Hop. Agree that things like Ferguson and the cascade of injustices that many people in this country live with day to day needs to be addressed. Atheists should be a vocal part of the efforts to create more social and economic justice in our country. Unfortunately, atheism, not being a creed, is a weak banner under which to unite. As Tony aluded to, let's strive to have our actions advocate for our values... and then... by the way... I'm an Atheist too! TH
I think we should start using the term Non Believer instead of atheist. I find the term atheist has too much baggage associated with it, and no one really knows what it means. It's become synonymous with:" people that just hate religion." I don't really like being labeled as something, but if someone asked me how I in identify myself I'm going to start saying I'm a non believer.
Great interview!
So this video grabbed All types of attention, I'm. Black, Big fan of the atheist. Experience and Matt Dillahunty, and enormous fan of hip hop and believe that it is the ultimate tool in empowering black culture, where this video got interesting for me was when he mentioned the hip hop and Christianity class. While I think that is tremendously awesome and unique, I think the commercialization of hip hop has been detrimental to black culture. Black people don't own the record companies or even the songs a lot of times. So how did Hip Hop get big, white Corporations bought the culture and package it to send negative messages of what success is for a young black person. Popularizing drug culture, strippers, materialism is part of a white supremacist plan to keep blacks poor and imprisoned. So the popularization of Hip-hop has had major negative impact because unlike he spoke, hip hop does not control what message to be said in their music, they are bought like slaves and pimped to keep a culture poor and 2nd class ie new Jim Crow
Raymond Lee Very interesting post.. I have a few questions if you don't mind. You think the general Hip Hop message is negative? Or just that corporations have marketed well only negative Hip Hop? Do you really think there was intention by record company owners to keep black people down through the popularization of their own music? You say Hip Hop artists don't control what message is being sent in their music. How do you know that?
Mark Case ok, thanks for the questions first off..I will address each of them. first, No I don't think the general message in hip hop is negative, but I do think the Majority of the images and messages marketed are overwhelmingly negative. So that kind of answers the 2nd question you asked cause yes their are some very talented positive and progressive artist that are not marketed with the same investment. As far as the intention of record companies, this question is a little more harder to defend my statements, but I have tied some strings together and have seen reports of record companies involvement with private prisons. Record business in general is tough and most artist are not profitable based off record sales. Now the popularization of hip hop on a global scale began early 90's to mid 90's in parallel was the emergence of "Gangster Rap" so it did seem quite odd that Hip Hop had been around since mid 70's and released as commercial art since 78 that their was enormous push after this quote "Gangster Rap" emerged. When Hip Hop was about Love, Peace, unity, and having fun as the architect Afrika Bambata laid down the principles there were not a lot of corporate support even into the 80s when they would not award the Rap Grammy on TV. Since then it has dominated entertainment, but the overall perception of the music has changed due to the targeted message. Now the over-saturation of these messages creates demonized caricature just as the Minstrel show did in the early 1900s Black stereotypes have always came from media. I am fan of Hip Hop and ambassador of the culture, and I notice the knee jerk reaction from people outside the culture, which stems from their manufactured perception from media. Now last questions I did not have to put together or draw my own conclusions based off of evidence and speculation. Artist have spoke out of what the record companies demand from them. Artist such as "David Banner" has spoken out against the industry as to how not only being treated like property and not having creative control over his music, but his image down to the clothes that he wore was all authorized by his label. BET aka Black Entertainment Television had a list of Hip Hop artist that were not allowed to be on their programming due to their music being "Too intelligent" for their audience. which again points to the intent to target these messages to black people
Raymond Lee
I can't say I know enough about either black culture or hip hop to really talk about it, but I appreciate you replying. Thank you.
Raymond Lee I've never thought about this before and idk, this sounds really rational
Very well said Raymond Lee
Beautyful thoughts on how he wishes society to be
great interview matt
Great man.
"Focus on the person." Great stuff gentlemen.
Thank you!
Great stuff
Atheism in the black community! Great Topic! Great interview. Wish the production quality was a bit higher. I can help! I have suggestions!
I love what he said about hip hop culture. I'm more of a heavy metal fan,but I love all music! recently addicted to modern jazz.
am known as the electrifying mr positive on Detroit radio ...again a great interview matt
Great!!!
Grandiose!
The Ubuntu philosophical tradition is humanist, so there ARE African humanisms ... and the philosophy of pleasure was born in North Africa on the city of Cyrene (the Cyrenaics), and among the ancient Epicurean Scholarchs, Laertius mentions two from Alexandria named Ptolomee the White and Ptolomee the Black, ergo there have been black philosophers from Mediterranean antiquity
The mic dropping out on the interviewer's questions makes it impossible to hear the question at times, and the captions provide no delineation to make it clear which party is speaking which words. Excellent video however.
this guy is cool. great interview.
Am I cool??
I hope he does a follow up on how he's doing now.. Interesting
Awesome.....
Nice one. We need more black athiests.
I could be wrong here, but isn't an African American church-goer saying that non-belief isn't "black" a racist statement? If so, then how is it acceptable for this to be the prevailing attitude?
Any plans to visit the UK matt?