ChîRhôpher Lazarus Pastor jeff is one of the most condescending pastors I’ve come across lol He tries so hard to make you believe he comes from a place of love and understanding, yet in his eyes and tone, he knows inside that’s the last thing he’s trying to do. He must have had quite the childhood to hold this much anger in him.
49 years after giving birth to me, my mother found me. I met her for 2 days before she died of cancer. At 15, in 1965, she refused to abort me even knowing that she had to give me away. I love her for that courage! On the day she found me, I gained 4 more sisters, 2 more brothers and 47 nieces and nephews. I am blessed. I challenge anyone to find one person in my family who thinks I should have been aborted.
He just talked about how cannibalism is okay and then says how slavery isn't... ? Crazy the lengths people go to in order to create some sort of moral compass. Really, really sad.
That sounds very "godly" of you. I prefer to not worship an imaginery friend who you call Jeebus who according to you drowned / starved and burnt around 12.5 million kids in the old testament
@@nativeatheist6422 hahaha. You just watched (presumably) a video where Jeff Durbin takes the legs off of your baseless worldview and reveals the absurdity of the faith you live by as an atheist......and your reply is that its a lie? Hahah. Uddy I don't mean to laugh AT you but I remember the days when I myself was that foolish. Luckily for us God saves sinners. Not good people.
I don't think he understood a lot of what Quinn said because near the end he said he wanted to discuss issues in part 2 that Quinn already explained to them. As for the girl, "I don't want to sound condescending but I feel sorry for you" is an extremely sarcastic comment. Durbin doesn't present arguments; he presents assertions as proofs and his 'evidence' is the ancient scripture, which is basically stories.
@@clearjr1 well Jeff is using presuppositional apologetics. Which assumes there is no morality apart from the God of the Bible. So it seems like he doesn’t answer the refute but he does based on his presupposition
This was the most respectful conversation I’ve ever seen between a Christian and an Athiest. Praise the Lord. We’ll be praying for that man. God bless you Pastor Jeff.
It makes me weep that there was a time when I agreed with this young troubled and confused man. The question that must be answered, "by what standard?" There is no higher standard than God's standard--clearly outlined and stipulated without equivocation in His pure, inerrant, complete, sufficient, and transcendent Word.
Drunk ramblings of a miserable life. the cries of actual suffering, bearing his chains of woe gladly, it's what he would prefer than to see reality. I'd happily pluck these flowers from his chain, not so that he would bear the chain without consolation, but so that he might cast off that chain, and cull the living flower. Read a book once in a while, you guys, geeeeez. ;P
I loved this as a Christian man who finds it hard to hold back my judgement for men like Quinton, so I was so humbled by how you all including Quinton held respect for one another in this well directed conversation. Thank you guys.
@@basp-ef7jx Do you know what any individual gets saved from? They are saved from God's wrath. And whether you believe in him or not, which I suspect you're an atheist yourself. You're under his wrath and just judgment for sin. I can break the law and face the judge and say. "I don't believe in you " all I want. That's not going to stop him from throwing the law at me and paying my fine. In the same way, that is where every man is headed
So this guy being "saved" is dependent upon this holy spirit influencing him? If that is the case why have that spirit not done it already? Why doen't that spirit just make one collective call to all people at once? 🤔
In his defense, I too have a black belt in Taekwondo chung do kwan that I earned at age 13, but I literally have no idea what type of forms we did. 😂 there are some who take martial arts super seriously, and then others (like me) who did it as an after school thing. I have a black belt, but not so sure I ever truly deserved it. 😬
It’s obvious to me that Qninton has only had discussions with people who agree with what he believes. He has never been challenged intellectually or Biblically. He doesn’t know how articulate what he believes outside of his sphere of influence.
Oucast American Very typical of modern Christians. They’re indoctrinated by the Church, and have their worldviews reinforced by confirmation bias, and those around them only pamper their foolish beliefs and make the problem worse. Sad really. Most people are taught something and have it confirmed by bias and peer pressure. So why don’t we instead, spread the word on the value of acknowledging biases instead of trying to pretend this issue is exclusive to any one group.
Oucast American Wow, so you completely disregard atheism and call it a cult without any explanation, but you say Christianity is totally ok and we’re just supposed to take your word for it? You don’t sound stupidly biased at all...
@Riley Bundy "The bible say (sic) that creation is proof of a creator". Right and I have a napkin that says otherwise. You can't use a pretend god's bible to prove god. Btw, how many creations have you seen? I've seen many paintings, but only one universe. If string theory is correct, will you move your god of the gaps back even further. Oh and if you replace god with meditate, your last few sentences make more sense.
@@Tinesthia I didnt feel challenged by church. I felt entertained....hence the reason I no longer go to church, covid or not. I asked questions. I always believed in God, but didnt know why, to comment on your second paragraph. Then God revealed Himself, through design. Through morality. Watching porn was always embarassing and shameful to me, but I didnt think it was wrong....until i realized God equated lust with adultery.
No. We are not meat machines. I mean......only in the sense that when I'm in a restaurant and I get that first amazing whiff of delicious burning beef. Seasoned lovely angus....then you could say I'm a sort of "meat machine".
You know I had To do it to em Eh, I don’t look at it as a gotcha thing. The guy is just espousing what he’s been fed with his whole life. Plus I don’t think he feels he got nuked lol. Hopefully he comes back on and eventually sees the insanity of his circular reasoning and ultimately Jesus saves him
Quentin seems like a respectful smart guy, but listening to this discussion makes me realize even more how logic and reason are so difficult to define if you remove God (the intelligent designer and creator of the universe) from the equation. If there are no absolutes outside of our thoughts or feelings, there's really no accountability for any of our actions. Logic and morality has to exist outside of our existence. We aren't constructing universal laws/truths, they were already there outside of mankind. We are just discovering that which God already created and defined.
Matt, can you show that morality exists outside of our existence. I understand your appeal to consequences but have never seen a good presentation of evidence that our desire to have moral guidelines means they exist.
All people that reform there life or choose not to in itself defies evolutionary biology , we should not be able to have such responsibility to choose when we are a product of natural selection.
@@marcslingsby8843 Marc, that does not follow at all. Evolution is about the change in allele frequency over time. It does not speak to consciousness or whether we have the ability to choose. Even more so it does not specify that there is a way that we “Ought” to choose. Biology in general never tells us what is right, only what is. Therefore it cannot indicate whether morality exists or not.
@@marcslingsby8843 Marc, I feel dismissed by your comment. Were you trying to be insulting? I wish you would ask me if I have read the Bible before telling me to do so. I have read the Bible several times. If you do not wish to discuss further, feel free to leave anytime. No one forced you to make a comment. You chose to comment, and I pointed out a mistake in your idea. A person’s choice to “reform there life or choose not to” does not defy evolutionary biology because evolutionary biology does not speak to free will or morality. One way this is evident is that many people who understand and endorse evolutionary biology are also religious/spiritual. Catholics for example are a significant group that both endorse evolutionary biology and objective, spiritually based morality. When reading the Bible, I found a great number of claims but have never been able to verify the claims about morality existing beyond humanity. Do you have any better evidence that would show objective morality exists?
Professing themselves to be wise they were as fools. At the end he said he’s no different to a baboon, if he’s no different to a baboon why then should his opinions be taken seriously?
Hes saying you're no different than a baboon either, so if we go by that logic you shouldn't be taken seriously, and neither should Jeff. Y'all a bunch of baboons!
Desiree Hansen then there is no point in having debates since everything is relative . Atheists shouldn’t even have debates because their argument is self refuting
@@taripar4967 I, personally, debate because I enjoy philosophy and the challenge presented by opposing views and opinions. There is no obligation other than my own pursuits. I was raised in a society, so first I learned their laws and of their morals. Then, I formed my own early opinions. I sought information and began citing a lot of my opinions, making adjustments here and there, over and over, and I continue to make those adjustments to this day. I've also watched a lot of other debates, learning how people argue, and what tricks are used to confuse or manipulate others as I hoped to avoid falling for them. Throughout time, religion has stood in the way when those who pondered the universe asked questions. It placed limits on what we could _do and say._ It fearmongered and turned _man against man._ It isolated people from those they loved and cared about if they were _different._ It is a journey to deconstruct life and then try to reconstruct it as something new again and again as your learn more and more, but I wouldn't have it any other way.
@@taripar4967 We as humans have a trait referred to as empathy. It is stronger for some and weaker for others. Even in a society with a majority of one group, an empathetic society would consider the minority. Thanks to the invention of written language, part of our history was recorded. In that record, we read of the atrocities committed by man. Progress was slow, traditions as well as superstition prevented exploration and discovery. We were ruled by the stronger force, thus leaving the more peaceful or unable to the mercy of the more militant. People sought change, some succeeded and some failed. We now sit where we are today. Philosophy is a topic anyone can discuss without being a scholar, and the minority has a way of speaking louder than ever before. Our modern laws allow for more safety in expressing opinions not shared by the majority, and more now are listening to the minority as an equal to the majority. Athiests, despite not commonly following a religious text to guide them, seek to understand and change the law of the land to better suit the people in it. The end goal is for everyone to have human rights and to identify what exactly those human rights should be. We have lived, making decisions, doing what we "thought" was _right and wrong_ before we knew our makeup, before we knew the distance to the sun, the vastness of space, and despite the huge revelation, we continued to live as we have. Religions used to explain what we didn't know, and now it hides in the gaps we haven't filled. No one stole ideas from your religion, your religion claimed the ideas of humanity and made them "divine", and said no man could be moral without them.
@@torontoash45 he contradicted himself many times, were you not listening? maybe your bias has put a muzzle on your hearing. he claimed that hunting innocent humans can be morally good. yet he claimed that torturing them would be morally bad. being hunted is torture. he was sacrificing honesty for consistency. and being intellectually dishonest is the same thing as being contradictory. limiting existence to matter and energy and yet being morally outraged at literally anything; is a contradiction.
I honestly cannot believe my ears. I know the worldview when consistent leads you were he is, but I have never heard that it is okay to kill and eat other human beings. Even from atheist. This is a darkened mind that has been raised with common grace in society, but he has given up the logos. His logic and reason has been abandoned as a result of trying to abandon God. It’s very shocking to say the least.
Pride is what makes them finally have to break the barrier of admitting aloud what they've always thought inside, and we hear it in part in this video here. The caller, knowing that he had to remain consistent, finally admitted that morals to atheists are subjective, not objective. Most atheists refuse to speak aloud what is consistent with atheism (lunacy) because they know that most of society will react in shock and disgust. Atheists do not truly speak their minds so they're not basically kicked out of society. Subjective morality is a huge danger to the body of civilized society. It will grow like a cancer in the body, and eventually the body will die. Atheists are basically "free radicals" in the body of civilized society. I don't mean to bash people who are atheists but, rather, their mindset is the "free radical" that is dangerous to society. We hope to change their minds so they stop damaging society.
I related to the awkward repositioning of everyone at 42:30 as he attempts to justify cannabilism. It’s heartbreaking really, because as you said he’s trying hard to be consistent but it ends up leading down a road that’s nonsensical and completely arbitrary- a slippery slope forreal.
Medically, cannibalism has been shown to have many negative effects. Including major diseases. Longer life and quality of life is reduced by cannibalism. If a society’s moral system do not include longer lives or quality of life, then by that system cannibalism may be viewed as ‘good’ or ‘neutral’. If cannibalism is allowed long term by a group of people, once they all die to prion and kuru disease there won’t be anyone left and that moral system will die. Our moral systems today have undergone similar evolution.
Jesse King I like that take. makes some sense. Do you believe the negative effects of it, and the inevitable deaths/breaking down of the moral system, as a enough of a reason to not pursue cannabilsm ?
I'm feeling grumpy-- this convo is like talking to my 8 year old stubborn headstrong daughter, you ask one thing, she will argue completely different one, using too many unnecessary words, which gets me tired mentally. But at least, I can say ,because I said so, to her 🙃
How about because God said so? That we glorify God by loving Him and doing what He commands. And He commands that children honor their mother and father
Ah man. Quentin seems like a really nice guy. I hope he looks further into the absolute grace, love & truth of the triune God of the Bible. I totally get the guy because I agreed with everything he said at one point. Once I put my faith in Jesus and what He did, my entire life was turned upside down
It amazes me how some one can suppress the truth of God its like a thief looking for a policeman 👮♂️ God bless you brother jeff you are very patient man
I really want to outgrow the fact that I’m also the type of person to say “like” in every sentence, just LIKE the caller 😂 the contrast between the caller and Jeff’s exchange is profound. I love the way Jeff speaks his mind and how mature and intelligent he is
@Ford Prefect it's a metaphor dude, relax lol. Things that are eternal take precedence over the material. The Sheik may be wealthy in material possessions, but he isn't rich towards God and that's what really matters.
I think you all handled the conversation very well. I learned a lot from this which includes the fact that I lack boldness. I find that I shrink back out of fear (not always) when I have opportunities to tell people what their spiritual condition is. Thank you all for this video.
Jeff is a great evangelist. He shows so much respect and love to the people he is speaking with. I believe this is the best way to present God and His Word to unbelievers.
He shows absolutely no respect for people. It’s his condescending religious attitude that’s disgusting! Besides, he doesn’t talk to nonbelievers he talks down to believers of some thing other than what he thinks! He’s pathetic really!
@@trollbridges4724 yep I had a conversation with once where he threatened me n multiple comments because I was holding his feet to the fire over Numbers 5 :11-31 … he said I was just trying to one up a Christian but I just wanted him to tell me how it was ok but he did the Hovind shuffle and told me I didn’t understand because I didn’t read 70 other verses even though the verse I was talking to him about was very straight forward and direct
@@serversideissues4249 I don’t have a question about Numbers 5 11-31. My question to him was if he felt that a forced miscarriage ( which we all know is an abortion) was a good punishment for an unfaithful spouse. And if so then it means he really isn’t anti-abortion. It also says in the Bible that god feels it’s a good punishment. And about two messages into the conversation he started to tell me that i wouldn’t talk to him like that in person and that I couldn’t handle him. While I never once in our conversation used a curse word or had any kind of attitude.
I they did find out that the baby does in fact feel pain by at least 20 weeks. Could be sooner idk if they told the truth on how soon part. Or if it would even make the whole abortion thing worse but some states let you kill a baby up do 9 months. Heartbreaking.
You should encourage them to do so. As a rule, presup stuff only survives because it has not yet received the scrutiny it deserves. It’s vagueness and doublespeak hasn’t yet been parsed out to reveal the real questions that it conceals. If it did, it would lead many atheists to the truth which is even farther away from Abrahamism than they are already.
Or not at all, because Jesus didn't waste his time on religious or Unbelievers. See his commands to the disciples as he sent them to the village and cities in Matthew 10.
jeff by far your clearest and most encompassing of arguments yet! loved the way you simplified the entire christian world view into one subject well done man. your an inspiration to those who can see the truth
Yeah to possess a black belt yet have so little knowledge of it is ridiculous. I have virtually no knowledge of the forms either but I don't claim to have a black belt
Kyle I don’t know what my black belt is but I do know that eating other people and killing babies is acceptable. 🤦🏻♂️ praying this message woke up his soul!
Witnessing to athiests like this is hard, watching this allows me to gain wisdom on how to witness peacefully and lovingly, but we never know whether the seeds planted by witnessing will be watered by God.
@Martin England I see your point with this type of debating, it does seem less like evangelizing and more like quarrelling over words/pressupostions ( instead of just reading scripture 2Tim3:16 ) which 2 Timothy 2:14 warns us about. Matthew 10:14 is a good standard operating procedure when spreading the Gospel which relates to the last paragraph of your comment.
@Martin England When I read through the book of Acts, the Gospels and even 1 Peter 3:14-16...noone debated or argued, but simply told there eyewitness/second hand accounts of Jesus teachings and Old testament scripture, you make a good point noone in scripture debating or argued...but simply told the truth even until death like Stephen in Acts 7.
@Martin England Jesus never argued but rebuked and teached to those who would listen, when I read scripture he never actually argued or dabated...he was fond of using parables. So when witnessing I myself use scientific, archeoligical, historical facts which edify the word...but have been guilty of this back and forth debate which actually che s up my time arguing pressupostions instead of just speaking scripture....interesting indeed.
@Martin England your argument is very Calvinist. That being said your are correct that the gospel stands first and foremost. I would however say make the case that he is not meeting the standard of an apologetic.
Quentin contradicts himself throughout this conversation and is unable to articulate his objections well nor answer the direct questions. This was very difficult to listen to. Difficult = heartbreaking and upsetting. If he is the epitome of what is being taught in higher education, God have mercy on the teachers/professors and generations that follow. Praying for his soul. 😔
Unfortunately, while the standards of education have done nobody any favors, the problem goes much deeper. We naturally, in our heart of hearts, reject the truth because we want sin and our desires, not the desires of God. It's not a head issue, it's one of the heart. And the head will come up with any possible explanation, no matter how ludicrous, to justify what the heart wants/believes.
I thought he was nowhere near as bad as most I've seen going on in colleges these days. At least he wanted to speak to people he disagreed with for over an hour. Watch any speech at a college by a pro-life activist, conservative, or even someone who isn't far left. Nearly all of them have protesters trying to shut the speech down. Some have even had people who needed to be removed by security.
Truly. He repeats the talking points I've heard from multiple atheists/those supporting abortion et al. It's the same playlist which has been pumped into our society/education system. I think many of the questions/scenarios Jeff brought up were things Quentin had never pondered. I hope this gives him food for thought and that he turns to his Creator.
In my unrepentant acting out sin in my life the only argument that changed anything was the declaration to me of the gospel of Christ. We can argue all day with these people but if the gospel is not spoken there will be no change. Our argument s will be true but unnefective if not first made on the foundation and declairation of the words of life.
It's not that his argument, such as it was, was weak. It's that he's too afraid of falling into Durbin's 'traps,' when he should have stood his ground, and owned his position: there is no objective morality. And if there were the last place you'd find it is in one particular religion. Durbin has no leg to stand on either, he's just much more eloquent about it.
@@BScott7220 Morality is objective because morals come from God, we are made in the image of God and therefore we inherited the understanding what morals are. Every human knows right from wrong because we are made in the image of God, not because we've developed some rules to live by as society. Behind every creation is a designer! Think about it and think about it deep!
@@BScott7220 Durbin has the unchanging, infallible Word of God to stand on. It answers & explains every conundrum we have in life. The atheistic worldview has no leg to stand on & constantly steals from the Christian worldview.
He talked about mental capacity to say "no I don't want that done to me." What about non-verbal special needs people? Some of them are totally dependent upon feeding tunes too. Are they less human and okay to kill???
A fully formed person not being able to feed oneself or being mute is not equivalent to an incomplete being with no agency that is unable to survive for even a few seconds unaided. Think of someone brain dead on Life Support. Is it okay to pull the plug sometimes? What if the life support is another Human forced to be hooked up to them? Shouldn’t the life support giver be allowed to unhook themself from the brain dead “person”?
@@Tinesthia Non-verbal people with special needs aren't mute. I encourage you to learn a little more about that. By your logic then, non-verbal special needs children who are totally dependent upon someone else for feeding and even to expel bowel movements and urine are less than human and okay to be killed.
@@Tinesthia I bring up children because we know that children aren't "fully formed". Humans don't have a fully developed pre-frontal cortex even as teenagers.
Becca Cruz Non-verbal special needs children is not comparable to an unconscious brain dead person on life support or an unborn fetus in it’s early stages. So your statement is not derived from my logic at all. How about responding to my actual example instead of making one up for me? I am very familiar with special needs. One of my family members adopted or became guardians of 7 children all with very special needs. 2 of which are wheelchair bound and with feeding tubes. My parents also adopted one special needs person. So you telling me to “learn a little more” just shows why you shouldn’t assume things about strangers on the internet. Non-verbal “Not involving words or using speech.” Mute “Refraining from, or incapable of speech.” How are these different and why does it matter in response to my comment?
@@Tinesthia lol I'm not telling you to learn a little more. I'm encouraging you to because there is a COGNITIVE difference between being mute and being non-verbal with special needs. I've assumed nothing about your life and I think that's great that your family cares for special needs children because they are just as valuable and worthy as typical humans. And I didn't make up an example for you. I'm just demonstrating how following your line of reasoning is inconsistent with the whole incomplete-being-dependent-on-someone-else-for-survival thing. You also brought up something categorically different which doesn't demonstrate your point at all. You used a brain dead person to demonstrate but a brain dead person is completely different from a growing person. Brain death happens from an irreversible INJURY to the brain. There is no more development that is going to happen. So that doesn't remotely compare to a developing human.
Brother Zack, and Jeff, and Sister Desi Maes, my wife and I are now and have been for some years enjoying our sixties. As all access members for years now, I say this with all the love in our hearts, this was a great show! I almost fell out of my chair when Jeff leaned back and cracked his knuckles, I knew it was time for popcorn good! God bless you all for what you do. Love to everyone there at Apologia from the older folks:)
When you have full knowledge of God’s Word and standard and understand the human condition, even the most intellectual atheist will back himself into a corner every time! I have a much respect for Jeff (and Quentin the caller for his calmness and ability to listen and articulate his opinion) but in the end...God has authority over all of us!!
In the year 1969 around midnight of August 8th, four members of the Manson family murdered Sharron Tate and her unborn child and 4 other people after brutally torturing them. There were a host of people at the time in and out of the family who felt it was (at minimum) okay, some even would have said it was necessary. Notice how no matter how many people were involved or agree with it, it still doesn't make it right. Some things are evil despite human opinion or consensus.
Pastor Jeff is AWESOME! He is extremely intelligent who knows logic backwards and forwards along with his knowledge of God’s Word. Praise the Lord for him and his abilities. He is truly blessed by the Lord and we are all blessed by him.
@@samurai90519 Please submit your best piece of *historical* evidence for Jebus. You do realize that the gospels were anonymous writers that post-date Jebus. There is no contemporary historical evidence for Jebus and more importantly that he was divine. There were many *messiahs* during this period of time. This one just had a small following and as soon as emperor Constantine bought in - the *religion* exploded. No different than other religions.
Kevin Hemeon you should check of A Case for Christ. It’s a book but also a movie if you want the easy version. It’s based on a true story of a once atheist. I’d say do the book because you’ll get a lot more info but he went at it to disprove Jesus because his wife became a believer. He didn’t a ton of research. Just an idea if you were interested. God bless!
@@ZenrRockStarr there is massive historical evidence he existed are you kidding me ? Pretty much everything you said is incorrect if you can't even do basic research you're definitely not gonna believe anything I say
42:30-43:30 My jaw dropped when Quentin (caller) said that he doesn't think it's that bad to eat people if the process of killing is fast and painless. This is what happens when you're honest about atheism. It leads to a worldview of absurdities. I appreciate the gentleman trying to be consistent with his arguments. Rarely do i see athiests do this. This gives us an opportunity to see what their worldview is truly like.
@@justin10292000 I am not in that video, kid. You are clearly having trouble keeping people apart from each other. Is it a vision problem or do you just need to be fed because you are lonely? ;-)
One thing ive realized over the years. Some people are just so devoid of God and the holy spirit, that you have to DETERMIME WHO IT IS YOU'RE SPEAKING TO about a moral issue. I recently had a discussion about abortion with someone i know to have a leftist ideology. I laid out every case i could to prove that it is a life, that life starts at conception, and that drawing any line as to when and if its ok winds up being fallacious. After the fact, i asked "do you understand?" She responded with "yes, youve convinced me it is a human life. I dont care, even if it is a human baby im still ok with killing it". It was at that moment i realized it wasnt simply that she was simply uninformed, but that she was a woman with no moral compass. Some people, no matter what you tell them, or how in depth you try and explain something, youll simply never change their mind, because its not that their moral compass is corrupted because theyre just not as well informed as you, or havent thought as hard and long about an issue as you, its because theyre just evil people. You need to establish who it is youre talking with before you attempt to engage them with information.
You know that you’re in MASSIVE trouble when Jeff starts off his next sentence with: “I mean this with all due humble respect and love toward you because you are created in the image of God, with purpose and inherent value, and that I do appreciate and respect you as a human being, with all sincerity...”
@Martin England Yah or Yahweh is the original Jewish name of God, the Heavenly Father. Means "I am" so by saying Yah or Yahweh it's technically the most correct term for God the Father.
@Janne Tranberg Also, research more into the name. It's not the name of the devil. Actually saying so is blasphemy. That's the same as calling God or Jesus the devil. Which is one of the worst sins you can commit.
@@lucifer2b666 nobody alive or for centuries "knew how" to pronounce any name given to God. The ancient Hebrew language had pronunciations lost to history. It's a poor attempt at a guess.
@Martin England That sounds like a very Christian thing to say. And what kind of God allows a thing like hell? It's a metaphorical concept. We can create it on earth for instance by wishing ill or being indifferent to people's suffering.
He's trying so hard to remain consistent while contradicting his view the entire time. He is having an internal conflict, and I hope he listens to it, and thinks deeply so that he may arrive at the obvious conclusion.
I loved the conversation..definitely one of my favorite atheist in that he was respectable and the conversation was great in that none of them were calling each other names and talking over one another. I highly disagree with Quintin. I’m so confused as to why Atheist mock Christians for believing in Noah’s ark while also claiming it’s ok under any circumstances to hunt people and dismember them and eat them…🤦🏽♂️
@21:15 Quentin engages in special pleading. He narrowly tailors his definition of “attached” so as to specifically exclude all human beings except the fetus. He’s creating a standard that can only apply to a fetus so as to justify a position that would allow for someone to aggress upon said fetus.
@@Badlands26 interesting how there are a bunch of atheist comments calling Jeff ridiculous and judging Christian's but you chose to call this comment "judgemental". And this comment is compassionate and says we should pray for him.
Based on Quentin’s world view if a slave were to come to him and say “These people are abusing me and torturing me everyday”, essentially his only response could be “Sorry but society has decided that it’s moral to do it so you’re going to continue to be tortured daily”. I pray with love that he and those who share this mindset would come to the Truth aka Jesus Christ
An ex of mine was telling me about his new interest in a lady. He said she must not have kids because they were discussing killing fetuses if needed. HIS WORDS, NOT MINE! I am sending him your content today and praying for them. We are such a lost generation. God help us! Praise Jesus for the way, the truth, and the breath of life! 💓🙌💓
He was a cool dude Quentin Is he coming on again? He was so cool even calmly listened to the gospel at the end. God bless you and show Himself to you Quentin!
A debate from Jeff was one of the pivotal points in my conversion, And not because HE convinced me (I was a new age skeptic bla), but because I head the atheist position and it was so weak, what a blessing ! I hope this will be true for others too !
My neighbor went and got her third abortion. I told her that she may have had two past abortions but now was the time to change. It isn’t safe. She went anyways because her husband said to “get rid of it or your out!” She asked me if I could help her out with her kids had she needed it after the abortion. Even though I didn’t want to, I did it anyways. Well... she ended up in pain, her legs were swollen and I looked it up and it was not normal. I told her to go to the ER. She refused. Two weeks later and all her pain meds are gone, she finally caved in and called PPH. Their response “you can go to the ER but we will do it for free if you come Monday” (it was Friday) then they said “go to .... hospital because our doctors work there too” I think it was all to cover it up. When she finally went in on Monday she found out she had a botched abortion and they covered it up as a “follow up appointment”. They asked her to take one of her pain pills, she said she was all out because of all the pain she had been in. They didn’t use any pain meds for her because they didn’t want to coverup the equipment used for the procedure. They made it a point to say “this is for free!” And “we are doing this for free out of the kindness out of our hearts” etc... she said it was very painful. Then they pushed her out the door. This all makes me sick. I know her story is not the only one. She is not one in a million. This was supposed to be a “safe abortion” according to standards. At a PPH that is new. New equipment and building, everything!! They talk about back ally abortions as an argument, but this is no better. The only difference is, one is with someone who has a title and liability insurance.
Also, she has such a bad infection, she was very bloated. She said the look on the nurses faces was concerning. I think she was close to deaths door. I pray this is a wake up call to her
I agree with Apologia staff/team hearts mission to voice the gospel truth, speaking life into lives. We need this example of, humility, bible base courage. Empowering... to continue running the race.
How can one argue...with one whose vocabulary uses the word "like"...every other word? Someone should also explain to him...that there is no such word as "um". This poor guy...does not seem to even follow the logic of this argument. I am thoroughly confused, with his argument. It is hard when it is obvious he doesn't really understand his own stance. Quentin doesn't seem to understand the subject matter.
Lord heard my prayers and got me out of "hotel California" in Chicago some years back. When I got in the car I excitedly told my wife how a man prayed over me in there. He spoke in Spanish. So i was wondering with her what religion are we to be (I think i even said scientology maybe? Roflmao 😂😂😂) So, got home, got on you tube and the 1st thing I saw was a young man's testimony of how he'd seen judgement day. You could just tell he at least in his heart of hearts had a 100% out of body experience. The very next thing I watched was a upload of something called "The sermon that shocked everyone" The pastor? Da Ninja. I was hooked! Couldn't get enough of this Apologia church . Then I seen Dr James White and fell in love the 2nd time. I can listen to these guys all day and never get bored. They're the best. Jeff's testimony is down to earth. Look it up if you can
@@FurlogTheGiant would go down the same way it did with David Wood. Matt got completely obliterated on that debate. Hmmm perhaps Matt has come up with some better arguments?
His undoing was virtue signalling to kill the fetus before 20 weeks, but agreeing that tracking, killing humans and eating other fully developed anatomically autonomous humans. The realm of absurdity..
Embryo can feel pain as soon as you can see them…he contradicts himself…I would have asked him: when did he started loving his kids ( if he has any) …. As soon as his wife told him she was pregnant? After a month? Two months?15 weeks, 19 weeks? Or until he or she was born? When did he decided to love his beautiful child??? Can he tell them that to their face??? “ I only starting loving you after 20 weeks of pregnancy “…
If you ever want to feel loved and respected as a person, pick an argument with Jeff Durbin.
True. Shouldn't We, of SOVEREIGN GRACE all be such and moreso!?)
Btw, the more Ya do it, the easier giving Grace gets!
I love this 😂
Lolol the irony in this 🙈😂
@@LifeLover2020 in Your comment?
ChîRhôpher Lazarus Pastor jeff is one of the most condescending pastors I’ve come across lol He tries so hard to make you believe he comes from a place of love and understanding, yet in his eyes and tone, he knows inside that’s the last thing he’s trying to do. He must have had quite the childhood to hold this much anger in him.
49 years after giving birth to me, my mother found me. I met her for 2 days before she died of cancer. At 15, in 1965, she refused to abort me even knowing that she had to give me away. I love her for that courage! On the day she found me, I gained 4 more sisters, 2 more brothers and 47 nieces and nephews. I am blessed. I challenge anyone to find one person in my family who thinks I should have been aborted.
I shed tears reading this...
Wow
Wow!! Amazing beautiful testimony. Share your story to all you come into contact with!! God Bless you and your family!!
God Bless You 🙏
God bless you and your mother!
Solus in Scriptura!
He just talked about how cannibalism is okay and then says how slavery isn't... ? Crazy the lengths people go to in order to create some sort of moral compass. Really, really sad.
Hey 😏
The buy-bull condones both cannibalism and slavery. Haha
Do you think slavery is immoral?
He did reference cannibalism in terms of requiring it for sustenance and survival, not for game or preference of food.
@@nativeatheist6422 Exactly. Strange they won't address it.
Warning to atheists:when Jeff mentions “I say this with love and respect....”, it means you are about to get your ass handed to you in a Godly way.
That sounds very "godly" of you.
I prefer to not worship an imaginery friend who you call Jeebus who according to you drowned / starved and burnt around 12.5 million kids in the old testament
lol
Oh you got that right.
No, it means he's about to lie his ass off.
@@nativeatheist6422 hahaha.
You just watched (presumably) a video where Jeff Durbin takes the legs off of your baseless worldview and reveals the absurdity of the faith you live by as an atheist......and your reply is that its a lie?
Hahah. Uddy I don't mean to laugh AT you but I remember the days when I myself was that foolish.
Luckily for us God saves sinners. Not good people.
Dude on the left is terrific in condensing these arguments, doesn't over complicate or over explain and seems super aware of the words he is using.
He has a fantastic voice too.
I don't think he understood a lot of what Quinn said because near the end he said he wanted to discuss issues in part 2 that Quinn already explained to them. As for the girl, "I don't want to sound condescending but I feel sorry for you" is an extremely sarcastic comment. Durbin doesn't present arguments; he presents assertions as proofs and his 'evidence' is the ancient scripture, which is basically stories.
@@clearjr1 well Jeff is using presuppositional apologetics. Which assumes there is no morality apart from the God of the Bible. So it seems like he doesn’t answer the refute but he does based on his presupposition
@@tarahclubb4243 There is no morality apart from God. Only subjective opinions.
@@TheJpep2424 prove it, or kindly stfu, you've done enough damage already, I'm sure.
When we say killing and eating another human is" not that bad"
That's a dangerous spot to be in.
James Boykin specially if you are the one being eaten 🥶🥶🤣🤣
Killing, sure, but what's so wrong with eating? They won't mind
Noooo! No killing and no eating!!! That's horrible
Roman catholic priest do it all the time.
@@fuzzycounsellor9147 you need to have facts to back up that claim! Not that I'm for catholic priest but that's harsh!
This was the most respectful conversation I’ve ever seen between a Christian and an Athiest. Praise the Lord. We’ll be praying for that man. God bless you Pastor Jeff.
Quentin just couldn't or wouldn't accept He was arguing from absurdity and continued to dig in deeper.
"um" "like" "you know"
"it doesn't need to be physically attached to someone in order to survive"
[conjoined twins have entered the chat]
You mean has left 😂
Excellent point!!
It makes me weep that there was a time when I agreed with this young troubled and confused man. The question that must be answered, "by what standard?" There is no higher standard than God's standard--clearly outlined and stipulated without equivocation in His pure, inerrant, complete, sufficient, and transcendent Word.
What are you saying?
Drunk ramblings of a miserable life. the cries of actual suffering, bearing his chains of woe gladly, it's what he would prefer than to see reality. I'd happily pluck these flowers from his chain, not so that he would bear the chain without consolation, but so that he might cast off that chain, and cull the living flower. Read a book once in a while, you guys, geeeeez. ;P
@@AaronEddieHYo read slowly 😄
God has some pretty low standards then cuz he is not above murdering children and allowing date rape and incest
What changed your mind/heart about God?
I loved this as a Christian man who finds it hard to hold back my judgement for men like Quinton, so I was so humbled by how you all including Quinton held respect for one another in this well directed conversation. Thank you guys.
they literally judged him and even tried to belittle him. then to top it off they went with the threat of eternal torture. truly disgusting people
Jeff is a mental ninja. Love this back and forth.
Hope he gets saved. Holy Spirit speak to his heart open his eyes may the gospel of salvation and the witness of Jesus become real to him. Amen
@@basp-ef7jx Do you know what any individual gets saved from? They are saved from God's wrath. And whether you believe in him or not, which I suspect you're an atheist yourself. You're under his wrath and just judgment for sin. I can break the law and face the judge and say. "I don't believe in you " all I want. That's not going to stop him from throwing the law at me and paying my fine. In the same way, that is where every man is headed
@@basp-ef7jx may I ask how you believe life came about? Thanks.
@Oucast American which god out of the thousands should we choose genius?
So this guy being "saved" is dependent upon this holy spirit influencing him? If that is the case why have that spirit not done it already? Why doen't that spirit just make one collective call to all people at once? 🤔
@@basp-ef7jx Your first sentence needs another verb.
“I got a black belt in taekwondo” Ohh cool what type, Ahhh I don’t know 🤣😂 Come on bro u ain’t gotta lie 2 kick it, There was no argument here
In his defense, I too have a black belt in Taekwondo chung do kwan that I earned at age 13, but I literally have no idea what type of forms we did. 😂 there are some who take martial arts super seriously, and then others (like me) who did it as an after school thing. I have a black belt, but not so sure I ever truly deserved it. 😬
@@jasontodd6816 same here! I was a kid and did make it to black belt but i have no memory of the forms or their titles lol
It’s obvious to me that Qninton has only had discussions with people who agree with what he believes. He has never been challenged intellectually or Biblically. He doesn’t know how articulate what he believes outside of his sphere of influence.
Oucast American
Very typical of modern Christians. They’re indoctrinated by the Church, and have their worldviews reinforced by confirmation bias, and those around them only pamper their foolish beliefs and make the problem worse. Sad really.
Most people are taught something and have it confirmed by bias and peer pressure. So why don’t we instead, spread the word on the value of acknowledging biases instead of trying to pretend this issue is exclusive to any one group.
@Oucast American Edited: my bad, i'm sure he's there for you. Sorry to piss you off.
Oucast American Wow, so you completely disregard atheism and call it a cult without any explanation, but you say Christianity is totally ok and we’re just supposed to take your word for it? You don’t sound stupidly biased at all...
@Riley Bundy "The bible say (sic) that creation is proof of a creator". Right and I have a napkin that says otherwise. You can't use a pretend god's bible to prove god. Btw, how many creations have you seen? I've seen many paintings, but only one universe. If string theory is correct, will you move your god of the gaps back even further. Oh and if you replace god with meditate, your last few sentences make more sense.
@@Tinesthia I didnt feel challenged by church. I felt entertained....hence the reason I no longer go to church, covid or not. I asked questions. I always believed in God, but didnt know why, to comment on your second paragraph. Then God revealed Himself, through design. Through morality. Watching porn was always embarassing and shameful to me, but I didnt think it was wrong....until i realized God equated lust with adultery.
Jeff really said “meat machines” that gets me every time
Hahahahhaha. Me too.
No. We are not meat machines. I mean......only in the sense that when I'm in a restaurant and I get that first amazing whiff of delicious burning beef. Seasoned lovely angus....then you could say I'm a sort of "meat machine".
I feel bad for this guy. Getting repeatedly nuked from orbit has to hurt
Lol 😝
Hahaha
😂😂😂😂😂
You know I had To do it to em Eh, I don’t look at it as a gotcha thing. The guy is just espousing what he’s been fed with his whole life. Plus I don’t think he feels he got nuked lol. Hopefully he comes back on and eventually sees the insanity of his circular reasoning and ultimately Jesus saves him
He wasnt repeatedly nuked from the orbit, he was pulled towards it. He was pulled towards planet logic from outer space.
“Jeff vs Atheist” I’m telling you guys I cannot click faster.
Does not compute.
Do you get off to this shit? Lmao Sus
Jeff wasn’t buying that the guy was in fact a black belt in taekwondo.
A black belt in taekwando is like having a doctorate in feminist literature.
@@areyoutheregoditsmedave Ouch...
U can see his eyes light up when he was explaining it lol
Idk anything about Taekwondo and even I could tell he was bullshitting😂😂😂
Indeed what you really need is to learn is aikido lol
I worry about Quentin. I got scared when he said that it was ok to hunt and kill other humans.
I'm sure he'd have a quick change of heart if he became the hunted.
I hope i continue to develop as a human being until i draw my last breath
Quentin seems like a respectful smart guy, but listening to this discussion makes me realize even more how logic and reason are so difficult to define if you remove God (the intelligent designer and creator of the universe) from the equation. If there are no absolutes outside of our thoughts or feelings, there's really no accountability for any of our actions. Logic and morality has to exist outside of our existence. We aren't constructing universal laws/truths, they were already there outside of mankind. We are just discovering that which God already created and defined.
Matt, can you show that morality exists outside of our existence. I understand your appeal to consequences but have never seen a good presentation of evidence that our desire to have moral guidelines means they exist.
All people that reform there life or choose not to in itself defies evolutionary biology , we should not be able to have such responsibility to choose when we are a product of natural selection.
@@marcslingsby8843 Marc, that does not follow at all. Evolution is about the change in allele frequency over time. It does not speak to consciousness or whether we have the ability to choose. Even more so it does not specify that there is a way that we “Ought” to choose. Biology in general never tells us what is right, only what is. Therefore it cannot indicate whether morality exists or not.
@@drewrichards27 let's not turn this into a long debate, read the Bible.
@@marcslingsby8843 Marc, I feel dismissed by your comment. Were you trying to be insulting? I wish you would ask me if I have read the Bible before telling me to do so. I have read the Bible several times. If you do not wish to discuss further, feel free to leave anytime. No one forced you to make a comment. You chose to comment, and I pointed out a mistake in your idea. A person’s choice to “reform there life or choose not to” does not defy evolutionary biology because evolutionary biology does not speak to free will or morality. One way this is evident is that many people who understand and endorse evolutionary biology are also religious/spiritual. Catholics for example are a significant group that both endorse evolutionary biology and objective, spiritually based morality. When reading the Bible, I found a great number of claims but have never been able to verify the claims about morality existing beyond humanity. Do you have any better evidence that would show objective morality exists?
Professing themselves to be wise they were as fools. At the end he said he’s no different to a baboon, if he’s no different to a baboon why then should his opinions be taken seriously?
Hes saying you're no different than a baboon either, so if we go by that logic you shouldn't be taken seriously, and neither should Jeff. Y'all a bunch of baboons!
Desiree Hansen then there is no point in having debates since everything is relative . Atheists shouldn’t even have debates because their argument is self refuting
@@taripar4967 What *others think* has an impact on them in society.
@@taripar4967
I, personally, debate because I enjoy philosophy and the challenge presented by opposing views and opinions.
There is no obligation other than my own pursuits.
I was raised in a society, so first I learned their laws and of their morals. Then, I formed my own early opinions. I sought information and began citing a lot of my opinions, making adjustments here and there, over and over, and I continue to make those adjustments to this day.
I've also watched a lot of other debates, learning how people argue, and what tricks are used to confuse or manipulate others as I hoped to avoid falling for them.
Throughout time, religion has stood in the way when those who pondered the universe asked questions.
It placed limits on what we could _do and say._
It fearmongered and turned _man against man._
It isolated people from those they loved and cared about if they were _different._
It is a journey to deconstruct life and then try to reconstruct it as something new again and again as your learn more and more, but I wouldn't have it any other way.
@@taripar4967 We as humans have a trait referred to as empathy. It is stronger for some and weaker for others.
Even in a society with a majority of one group, an empathetic society would consider the minority.
Thanks to the invention of written language, part of our history was recorded. In that record, we read of the atrocities committed by man.
Progress was slow, traditions as well as superstition prevented exploration and discovery.
We were ruled by the stronger force, thus leaving the more peaceful or unable to the mercy of the more militant.
People sought change, some succeeded and some failed.
We now sit where we are today.
Philosophy is a topic anyone can discuss without being a scholar, and the minority has a way of speaking louder than ever before.
Our modern laws allow for more safety in expressing opinions not shared by the majority, and more now are listening to the minority as an equal to the majority.
Athiests, despite not commonly following a religious text to guide them, seek to understand and change the law of the land to better suit the people in it.
The end goal is for everyone to have human rights and to identify what exactly those human rights should be.
We have lived, making decisions, doing what we "thought" was _right and wrong_ before we knew our makeup, before we knew the distance to the sun, the vastness of space, and despite the huge revelation, we continued to live as we have.
Religions used to explain what we didn't know, and now it hides in the gaps we haven't filled.
No one stole ideas from your religion, your religion claimed the ideas of humanity and made them "divine", and said no man could be moral without them.
I believe he might have a black belt in the art of self contradiction..
@Mark Lujan
Very funny brother. Blessings from Los Angeles.
self contradiction? wh en was he contradicting himself? He wasn`t .. Maybe you are being Bias
@@torontoash45 he contradicted himself many times, were you not listening? maybe your bias has put a muzzle on your hearing. he claimed that hunting innocent humans can be morally good. yet he claimed that torturing them would be morally bad. being hunted is torture. he was sacrificing honesty for consistency. and being intellectually dishonest is the same thing as being contradictory. limiting existence to matter and energy and yet being morally outraged at literally anything; is a contradiction.
@@doublehockeystix We talkin about Jeff or the Athiest? I haven't finished the video yet.
@@torontoash45 When was Quentin contradicting himself?- From the second he started speaking.
I honestly cannot believe my ears. I know the worldview when consistent leads you were he is, but I have never heard that it is okay to kill and eat other human beings. Even from atheist. This is a darkened mind that has been raised with common grace in society, but he has given up the logos. His logic and reason has been abandoned as a result of trying to abandon God. It’s very shocking to say the least.
Pride is what makes them finally have to break the barrier of admitting aloud what they've always thought inside, and we hear it in part in this video here. The caller, knowing that he had to remain consistent, finally admitted that morals to atheists are subjective, not objective. Most atheists refuse to speak aloud what is consistent with atheism (lunacy) because they know that most of society will react in shock and disgust. Atheists do not truly speak their minds so they're not basically kicked out of society.
Subjective morality is a huge danger to the body of civilized society. It will grow like a cancer in the body, and eventually the body will die. Atheists are basically "free radicals" in the body of civilized society. I don't mean to bash people who are atheists but, rather, their mindset is the "free radical" that is dangerous to society. We hope to change their minds so they stop damaging society.
I related to the awkward repositioning of everyone at 42:30 as he attempts to justify cannabilism. It’s heartbreaking really, because as you said he’s trying hard to be consistent but it ends up leading down a road that’s nonsensical and completely arbitrary- a slippery slope forreal.
Medically, cannibalism has been shown to have many negative effects. Including major diseases. Longer life and quality of life is reduced by cannibalism. If a society’s moral system do not include longer lives or quality of life, then by that system cannibalism may be viewed as ‘good’ or ‘neutral’.
If cannibalism is allowed long term by a group of people, once they all die to prion and kuru disease there won’t be anyone left and that moral system will die.
Our moral systems today have undergone similar evolution.
Jesse King I like that take. makes some sense. Do you believe the negative effects of it, and the inevitable deaths/breaking down of the moral system, as a enough of a reason to not pursue cannabilsm ?
I'm feeling grumpy-- this convo is like talking to my 8 year old stubborn headstrong daughter, you ask one thing, she will argue completely different one, using too many unnecessary words, which gets me tired mentally. But at least, I can say ,because I said so, to her 🙃
Exactly how I've been feeling the entire time watching this
How about because God said so? That we glorify God by loving Him and doing what He commands. And He commands that children honor their mother and father
Why are you arguing with an 8yr old?😂
Ah man. Quentin seems like a really nice guy. I hope he looks further into the absolute grace, love & truth of the triune God of the Bible. I totally get the guy because I agreed with everything he said at one point. Once I put my faith in Jesus and what He did, my entire life was turned upside down
Which you then realized was right side up all along!
Praise God!
Absolutely brother.
It amazes me how some one can suppress the truth of God its like a thief looking for a policeman 👮♂️ God bless you brother jeff you are very patient man
Quentin, if it was your loved one being cannibalized...would the act of the cannibals be immoral?
I was asking the same as I watched
Long as they do it swiftly I think he would be okay with it
Let him face a man that wants to kill and eat him and I'm sure he would sing a different tune
That would depend on the latitude and longitude, apparently.
I really want to outgrow the fact that I’m also the type of person to say “like” in every sentence, just LIKE the caller 😂 the contrast between the caller and Jeff’s exchange is profound. I love the way Jeff speaks his mind and how mature and intelligent he is
Us Brits us it at the end of a sentence. Dya know what I'm sayin like ? LOOOL I think it's just a Brummie thing, I'm not sure.
@@Ryan_Nath 2 tru like???🤣🤣🤣Ps From the UK
@@scottandant r like, so it's not just a Brummie thing lool
@@Ryan_Nathfrom the south and we don't say it here but it definitely does get said in a quite a few parts of the UK. We have a wacky dialect 🤣
The foolish man built his house upon the sand.
@Ford Prefect it's a metaphor dude, relax lol. Things that are eternal take precedence over the material. The Sheik may be wealthy in material possessions, but he isn't rich towards God and that's what really matters.
I'm not throwing any attacks but does he really feel this way? I can't imagine that anyone really does. I'm glad he heard the gospel!
I think you all handled the conversation very well. I learned a lot from this which includes the fact that I lack boldness. I find that I shrink back out of fear (not always) when I have opportunities to tell people what their spiritual condition is. Thank you all for this video.
This is so sad and heartbreaking. Praying this man finds Jesus.
oh boy he is in all sorts of trouble with with his world view.
Jeff is a great evangelist. He shows so much respect and love to the people he is speaking with. I believe this is the best way to present God and His Word to unbelievers.
He shows absolutely no respect for people. It’s his condescending religious attitude that’s disgusting! Besides, he doesn’t talk to nonbelievers he talks down to believers of some thing other than what he thinks! He’s pathetic really!
@@AnarchoPunkChad troll is in the name. It was a comment designed to evoke emotions and make someone lose control.
@@trollbridges4724 yep I had a conversation with once where he threatened me n multiple comments because I was holding his feet to the fire over Numbers 5 :11-31 … he said I was just trying to one up a Christian but I just wanted him to tell me how it was ok but he did the Hovind shuffle and told me I didn’t understand because I didn’t read 70 other verses even though the verse I was talking to him about was very straight forward and direct
@@jeremykoerperich4779 So what's your question with regards to Numbers 5 : 11-31? Morality?
@@serversideissues4249 I don’t have a question about Numbers 5 11-31. My question to him was if he felt that a forced miscarriage ( which we all know is an abortion) was a good punishment for an unfaithful spouse. And if so then it means he really isn’t anti-abortion. It also says in the Bible that god feels it’s a good punishment. And about two messages into the conversation he started to tell me that i wouldn’t talk to him like that in person and that I couldn’t handle him. While I never once in our conversation used a curse word or had any kind of attitude.
How can anyone know if that baby ,that is being pulled apart , doesn't feel pain?
It's this thing that religious people always continue deny called science.
I they did find out that the baby does in fact feel pain by at least 20 weeks. Could be sooner idk if they told the truth on how soon part. Or if it would even make the whole abortion thing worse but some states let you kill a baby up do 9 months. Heartbreaking.
@@Nicole-ky7ye
If only you actually cared for the real babies as you pretend to care for the unborn fetuses, because the Republican Party told you so.
@@ezbody what?
@@williambecker5811 but your ancestors we rocks mixed with some rain and now you’re talking about science? 🧐
Wish they do this more often . Maybe once a week lol 😁
You should encourage them to do so.
As a rule, presup stuff only survives because it has not yet received the scrutiny it deserves. It’s vagueness and doublespeak hasn’t yet been parsed out to reveal the real questions that it conceals. If it did, it would lead many atheists to the truth which is even farther away from Abrahamism than they are already.
Or not at all, because Jesus didn't waste his time on religious or Unbelievers. See his commands to the disciples as he sent them to the village and cities in Matthew 10.
jeff by far your clearest and most encompassing of arguments yet! loved the way you simplified the entire christian world view into one subject well done man. your an inspiration to those who can see the truth
Greetings from Dublin Ireland
Durbin had this debate at black belt.
Jeff’s questioning at the beginning, “what style of taekwondo, Chung do Kwan...?” This had the guys showing he was full of it.
Yeah to possess a black belt yet have so little knowledge of it is ridiculous. I have virtually no knowledge of the forms either but I don't claim to have a black belt
Kyle I don’t know what my black belt is but I do know that eating other people and killing babies is acceptable. 🤦🏻♂️ praying this message woke up his soul!
This is true. Over before it began. It also shows that this shouldn't be hailed as an impressive victory.
Witnessing to athiests like this is hard, watching this allows me to gain wisdom on how to witness peacefully and lovingly, but we never know whether the seeds planted by witnessing will be watered by God.
@Martin England I see your point with this type of debating, it does seem less like evangelizing and more like quarrelling over words/pressupostions ( instead of just reading scripture 2Tim3:16 ) which 2 Timothy 2:14 warns us about.
Matthew 10:14 is a good standard operating procedure when spreading the Gospel which relates to the last paragraph of your comment.
@Martin England When I read through the book of Acts, the Gospels and even 1 Peter 3:14-16...noone debated or argued, but simply told there eyewitness/second hand accounts of Jesus teachings and Old testament scripture, you make a good point noone in scripture debating or argued...but simply told the truth even until death like Stephen in Acts 7.
@Martin England Jesus never argued but rebuked and teached to those who would listen, when I read scripture he never actually argued or dabated...he was fond of using parables. So when witnessing I myself use scientific, archeoligical, historical facts which edify the word...but have been guilty of this back and forth debate which actually che s up my time arguing pressupostions instead of just speaking scripture....interesting indeed.
@Martin England your argument is very Calvinist.
That being said your are correct that the gospel stands first and foremost. I would however say make the case that he is not meeting the standard of an apologetic.
So don't hurt anyone that can understand pain, but somehow it's okay to hunt and kill them?
No got it wrong, it's ''not that bad''.
Lol, the absurdity he gets into trying to stay coherent is baffling
Embryos feel pain and don't want it. Pro-choicers always state incoherent arguments.
Thank you Provoked squad! Tuning in from Vietnam and taking notes
Quentin contradicts himself throughout this conversation and is unable to articulate his objections well nor answer the direct questions. This was very difficult to listen to. Difficult = heartbreaking and upsetting. If he is the epitome of what is being taught in higher education, God have mercy on the teachers/professors and generations that follow. Praying for his soul. 😔
Unfortunately, it's (as I've been seeing, at least) very much the epitome of what's being taught in [much of] higher education.
Unfortunately, while the standards of education have done nobody any favors, the problem goes much deeper. We naturally, in our heart of hearts, reject the truth because we want sin and our desires, not the desires of God. It's not a head issue, it's one of the heart. And the head will come up with any possible explanation, no matter how ludicrous, to justify what the heart wants/believes.
I thought he was nowhere near as bad as most I've seen going on in colleges these days. At least he wanted to speak to people he disagreed with for over an hour. Watch any speech at a college by a pro-life activist, conservative, or even someone who isn't far left. Nearly all of them have protesters trying to shut the speech down. Some have even had people who needed to be removed by security.
Truly. He repeats the talking points I've heard from multiple atheists/those supporting abortion et al. It's the same playlist which has been pumped into our society/education system. I think many of the questions/scenarios Jeff brought up were things Quentin had never pondered. I hope this gives him food for thought and that he turns to his Creator.
You don’t have to have a strong theological background to debate this guy. His argumentation is weak.
That kid came off very moronic to me. Jeff had a lot of patience with him.
In my unrepentant acting out sin in my life the only argument that changed anything was the declaration to me of the gospel of Christ. We can argue all day with these people but if the gospel is not spoken there will be no change. Our argument s will be true but unnefective if not first made on the foundation and declairation of the words of life.
It's not that his argument, such as it was, was weak. It's that he's too afraid of falling into Durbin's 'traps,' when he should have stood his ground, and owned his position: there is no objective morality. And if there were the last place you'd find it is in one particular religion. Durbin has no leg to stand on either, he's just much more eloquent about it.
@@BScott7220 Morality is objective because morals come from God, we are made in the image of God and therefore we inherited the understanding what morals are. Every human knows right from wrong because we are made in the image of God, not because we've developed some rules to live by as society. Behind every creation is a designer! Think about it and think about it deep!
@@BScott7220 Durbin has the unchanging, infallible Word of God to stand on. It answers & explains every conundrum we have in life. The atheistic worldview has no leg to stand on & constantly steals from the Christian worldview.
He talked about mental capacity to say "no I don't want that done to me." What about non-verbal special needs people? Some of them are totally dependent upon feeding tunes too. Are they less human and okay to kill???
A fully formed person not being able to feed oneself or being mute is not equivalent to an incomplete being with no agency that is unable to survive for even a few seconds unaided.
Think of someone brain dead on Life Support. Is it okay to pull the plug sometimes? What if the life support is another Human forced to be hooked up to them? Shouldn’t the life support giver be allowed to unhook themself from the brain dead “person”?
@@Tinesthia Non-verbal people with special needs aren't mute. I encourage you to learn a little more about that. By your logic then, non-verbal special needs children who are totally dependent upon someone else for feeding and even to expel bowel movements and urine are less than human and okay to be killed.
@@Tinesthia I bring up children because we know that children aren't "fully formed". Humans don't have a fully developed pre-frontal cortex even as teenagers.
Becca Cruz
Non-verbal special needs children is not comparable to an unconscious brain dead person on life support or an unborn fetus in it’s early stages. So your statement is not derived from my logic at all.
How about responding to my actual example instead of making one up for me?
I am very familiar with special needs. One of my family members adopted or became guardians of 7 children all with very special needs. 2 of which are wheelchair bound and with feeding tubes. My parents also adopted one special needs person. So you telling me to “learn a little more” just shows why you shouldn’t assume things about strangers on the internet.
Non-verbal “Not involving words or using speech.”
Mute “Refraining from, or incapable of speech.”
How are these different and why does it matter in response to my comment?
@@Tinesthia lol I'm not telling you to learn a little more. I'm encouraging you to because there is a COGNITIVE difference between being mute and being non-verbal with special needs. I've assumed nothing about your life and I think that's great that your family cares for special needs children because they are just as valuable and worthy as typical humans. And I didn't make up an example for you. I'm just demonstrating how following your line of reasoning is inconsistent with the whole incomplete-being-dependent-on-someone-else-for-survival thing. You also brought up something categorically different which doesn't demonstrate your point at all. You used a brain dead person to demonstrate but a brain dead person is completely different from a growing person. Brain death happens from an irreversible INJURY to the brain. There is no more development that is going to happen. So that doesn't remotely compare to a developing human.
Brother Zack, and Jeff, and Sister Desi Maes, my wife and I are now and have been for some years enjoying our sixties. As all access members for years now, I say this with all the love in our hearts, this was a great show! I almost fell out of my chair when Jeff leaned back and cracked his knuckles, I knew it was time for popcorn good! God bless you all for what you do. Love to everyone there at Apologia from the older folks:)
Quinton: “I think you guys are blending the 2 together...”
Also Quinton: “It’s really a grey area...”
Lol 😅 timestamps would be great here.
Quentin would be more accurately described as a rebellious child throwing a tantrum against God than a true seeker and defender of atheism.
That intro though! BASED 👌
When you have full knowledge of God’s Word and standard and understand the human condition, even the most intellectual atheist will back himself into a corner every time!
I have a much respect for Jeff (and Quentin the caller for his calmness and ability to listen and articulate his opinion) but in the end...God has authority over all of us!!
Looking forward to this conversation
In the year 1969 around midnight of August 8th, four members of the Manson family murdered Sharron Tate and her unborn child and 4 other people after brutally torturing them. There were a host of people at the time in and out of the family who felt it was (at minimum) okay, some even would have said it was necessary. Notice how no matter how many people were involved or agree with it, it still doesn't make it right. Some things are evil despite human opinion or consensus.
Pastor Jeff is AWESOME! He is extremely intelligent who knows logic backwards and forwards along with his knowledge of God’s Word. Praise the Lord for him and his abilities. He is truly blessed by the Lord and we are all blessed by him.
*God* spoke everything into existence, that’s your Big Bang and Evolution Theories. *God* spoke, bang there it is.
*Thor* spoke everything into existence, that's your Big Bang and Evolution Theories. *Thor* spoke, bang there it is.
There isnt historical evidence of Thor but there is for Jesus
@@samurai90519 Please submit your best piece of *historical* evidence for Jebus. You do realize that the gospels were anonymous writers that post-date Jebus. There is no contemporary historical evidence for Jebus and more importantly that he was divine. There were many *messiahs* during this period of time. This one just had a small following and as soon as emperor Constantine bought in - the *religion* exploded. No different than other religions.
Kevin Hemeon you should check of A Case for Christ. It’s a book but also a movie if you want the easy version. It’s based on a true story of a once atheist. I’d say do the book because you’ll get a lot more info but he went at it to disprove Jesus because his wife became a believer. He didn’t a ton of research. Just an idea if you were interested. God bless!
@@ZenrRockStarr there is massive historical evidence he existed are you kidding me ? Pretty much everything you said is incorrect if you can't even do basic research you're definitely not gonna believe anything I say
"Borrowing capital "is such a good articulate way to discuss it
42:30-43:30 My jaw dropped when Quentin (caller) said that he doesn't think it's that bad to eat people if the process of killing is fast and painless. This is what happens when you're honest about atheism. It leads to a worldview of absurdities. I appreciate the gentleman trying to be consistent with his arguments. Rarely do i see athiests do this. This gives us an opportunity to see what their worldview is truly like.
Are you getting help with these delusions? ;-)
@@lepidoptera9337 The atheist in the video is certainly deluded!
@@justin10292000 I am not in that video, kid. You are clearly having trouble keeping people apart from each other. Is it a vision problem or do you just need to be fed because you are lonely? ;-)
One thing ive realized over the years. Some people are just so devoid of God and the holy spirit, that you have to DETERMIME WHO IT IS YOU'RE SPEAKING TO about a moral issue.
I recently had a discussion about abortion with someone i know to have a leftist ideology. I laid out every case i could to prove that it is a life, that life starts at conception, and that drawing any line as to when and if its ok winds up being fallacious. After the fact, i asked "do you understand?" She responded with "yes, youve convinced me it is a human life. I dont care, even if it is a human baby im still ok with killing it".
It was at that moment i realized it wasnt simply that she was simply uninformed, but that she was a woman with no moral compass.
Some people, no matter what you tell them, or how in depth you try and explain something, youll simply never change their mind, because its not that their moral compass is corrupted because theyre just not as well informed as you, or havent thought as hard and long about an issue as you, its because theyre just evil people.
You need to establish who it is youre talking with before you attempt to engage them with information.
God bless you, Mr. Silva, for debating today. You're a sweet soul. Love you, brother.
Oh my goodness that intro I'm so pumped!
You know that you’re in MASSIVE trouble when Jeff starts off his next sentence with:
“I mean this with all due humble respect and love toward you because you are created in the image of God, with purpose and inherent value, and that I do appreciate and respect you as a human being, with all sincerity...”
Why should that matter? It's not like "anything he says afterward is correct"!
exactly, lol
The "smartest" people sound so silly/wicked when they deny Yahweh. They think it could be ok to eat people...if enough people agreed.
Not true
@Martin England Yah or Yahweh is the original Jewish name of God, the Heavenly Father. Means "I am" so by saying Yah or Yahweh it's technically the most correct term for God the Father.
@Janne Tranberg Also, research more into the name. It's not the name of the devil. Actually saying so is blasphemy. That's the same as calling God or Jesus the devil. Which is one of the worst sins you can commit.
@@lucifer2b666 nobody alive or for centuries "knew how" to pronounce any name given to God. The ancient Hebrew language had pronunciations lost to history. It's a poor attempt at a guess.
@Martin England That sounds like a very Christian thing to say. And what kind of God allows a thing like hell? It's a metaphorical concept. We can create it on earth for instance by wishing ill or being indifferent to people's suffering.
I appreciate how both parties were so respectful.
What a wonderfully respectful conversation! It's so insightful to have atheists come on the show like this.
finally signed up for Apologia All Access last month. Loving the Christian History series with Dr. White.
He's trying so hard to stay consistent that it's hard to listen to
Yeah I cringed so hard when he was justifying killing someone quickly
facts
43:00 I wonder if he’s told his friends and family that? The absurdity these ppl have to move into in order to stay consistent is scary. Insane!
He's trying so hard to remain consistent while contradicting his view the entire time. He is having an internal conflict, and I hope he listens to it, and thinks deeply so that he may arrive at the obvious conclusion.
I loved the conversation..definitely one of my favorite atheist in that he was respectable and the conversation was great in that none of them were calling each other names and talking over one another. I highly disagree with Quintin.
I’m so confused as to why Atheist mock Christians for believing in Noah’s ark while also claiming it’s ok under any circumstances to hunt people and dismember them and eat them…🤦🏽♂️
i have Never heard someone from that world-view say Logic(From The LOGOS) Is Outside of Humans! Esp. in the way he did! Amazing
@21:15 Quentin engages in special pleading. He narrowly tailors his definition of “attached” so as to specifically exclude all human beings except the fetus. He’s creating a standard that can only apply to a fetus so as to justify a position that would allow for someone to aggress upon said fetus.
I see that Quentin is really confused about his own worldview. Let's pray for him🙏.
“Alex, I’ll take Judgmental comments said by human beings for $600”
Agreed . He is contradicting himself!
@@Badlands26 interesting how there are a bunch of atheist comments calling Jeff ridiculous and judging Christian's but you chose to call this comment "judgemental". And this comment is compassionate and says we should pray for him.
He completely abandoned all reason the moment he said he thinks its okay to kill another human being for food if it is quick.
This is my favorite platform for christian perspective. I love the philosophical debate.
It blows my mind the bait-and-switch this atheist does to himself to avoid self sight
I want the intro to this on my driving playlist... but longer and with more Bible verses 😁
Well done, Jeff!
She said it profoundly “Why isn’t a baboon sitting next to me and talking?” That’s really deep to think about and well said.😂❤👍🏾
Based on Quentin’s world view if a slave were to come to him and say “These people are abusing me and torturing me everyday”, essentially his only response could be “Sorry but society has decided that it’s moral to do it so you’re going to continue to be tortured daily”.
I pray with love that he and those who share this mindset would come to the Truth aka Jesus Christ
An ex of mine was telling me about his new interest in a lady. He said she must not have kids because they were discussing killing fetuses if needed. HIS WORDS, NOT MINE! I am sending him your content today and praying for them. We are such a lost generation. God help us! Praise Jesus for the way, the truth, and the breath of life! 💓🙌💓
When Jeff challenged him on his black belt knowledge he froze up…I have a strong feeling this guy is not a legitimate black belt
He was a cool dude Quentin Is he coming on again? He was so cool even calmly listened to the gospel at the end. God bless you and show Himself to you Quentin!
A debate from Jeff was one of the pivotal points in my conversion, And not because HE convinced me (I was a new age skeptic bla), but because I head the atheist position and it was so weak, what a blessing ! I hope this will be true for others too !
My neighbor went and got her third abortion. I told her that she may have had two past abortions but now was the time to change. It isn’t safe. She went anyways because her husband said to “get rid of it or your out!” She asked me if I could help her out with her kids had she needed it after the abortion. Even though I didn’t want to, I did it anyways. Well... she ended up in pain, her legs were swollen and I looked it up and it was not normal. I told her to go to the ER. She refused. Two weeks later and all her pain meds are gone, she finally caved in and called PPH. Their response “you can go to the ER but we will do it for free if you come Monday” (it was Friday) then they said “go to .... hospital because our doctors work there too” I think it was all to cover it up. When she finally went in on Monday she found out she had a botched abortion and they covered it up as a “follow up appointment”. They asked her to take one of her pain pills, she said she was all out because of all the pain she had been in. They didn’t use any pain meds for her because they didn’t want to coverup the equipment used for the procedure. They made it a point to say “this is for free!” And “we are doing this for free out of the kindness out of our hearts” etc... she said it was very painful. Then they pushed her out the door.
This all makes me sick. I know her story is not the only one. She is not one in a million. This was supposed to be a “safe abortion” according to standards. At a PPH that is new. New equipment and building, everything!! They talk about back ally abortions as an argument, but this is no better. The only difference is, one is with someone who has a title and liability insurance.
Also, she has such a bad infection, she was very bloated. She said the look on the nurses faces was concerning. I think she was close to deaths door. I pray this is a wake up call to her
How come we ain't hearing about these stories enough, this would probably make some stop.
I agree with Apologia staff/team hearts mission to voice the gospel truth, speaking life into lives. We need this example of, humility, bible base courage. Empowering... to continue running the race.
Prayers for Quinton. Come to God Quinton. The Lord give him grace and open his eyes, and give him eternal life.
This kid lost so many times during this exchange. God bless your patience Jeff, his rambles put me to sleep.
How can one argue...with one whose vocabulary uses the word "like"...every other word? Someone should also explain to him...that there is no such word as "um". This poor guy...does not seem to even follow the logic of this argument. I am thoroughly confused, with his argument. It is hard when it is obvious he doesn't really understand his own stance. Quentin doesn't seem to understand the subject matter.
Lord heard my prayers and got me out of "hotel California" in Chicago some years back. When I got in the car I excitedly told my wife how a man prayed over me in there. He spoke in Spanish. So i was wondering with her what religion are we to be (I think i even said scientology maybe? Roflmao 😂😂😂) So, got home, got on you tube and the 1st thing I saw was a young man's testimony of how he'd seen judgement day. You could just tell he at least in his heart of hearts had a 100% out of body experience.
The very next thing I watched was a upload of something called "The sermon that shocked everyone" The pastor? Da Ninja.
I was hooked! Couldn't get enough of this Apologia church . Then I seen Dr James White and fell in love the 2nd time. I can listen to these guys all day and never get bored. They're the best. Jeff's testimony is down to earth. Look it up if you can
Jeff love you respect you don't agree with post mil. But stop texting while your host is speaking and you are a guest it's rude.
You should debate Matt Dillahunty. I’d love to see that!
Yessssss!
why? so Matt can wipe the floor with him?
@@FurlogTheGiant lol.. you said it not me 🙈😂
@Betty Boop laughable
@@FurlogTheGiant would go down the same way it did with David Wood. Matt got completely obliterated on that debate. Hmmm perhaps Matt has come up with some better arguments?
Praying for this young man!
Lol, she brought me from tears to laughing instantly with the "I've never met an aethist that admitted they would eat someone."
Jeff says some great stuff, I fully agree with him. It would be great to see Jeff to debate people as practised at him as debating.
Not even done with the video and I’m loving this conversation. Thanks apologia!
His undoing was virtue signalling to kill the fetus before 20 weeks, but agreeing that tracking, killing humans and eating other fully developed anatomically autonomous humans. The realm of absurdity..
Much love from Boise, ID ✝️
Hey Boise is my hometown! Hello from Vancouver, WA
@@jbonzai7777 hey small world!
Twinfalls!
Nice! I'm in Meridian!
@@matthewpunt4316 nice!
Much love from San Mateo, CA!
Embryo can feel pain as soon as you can see them…he contradicts himself…I would have asked him: when did he started loving his kids ( if he has any) …. As soon as his wife told him she was pregnant? After a month? Two months?15 weeks, 19 weeks? Or until he or she was born?
When did he decided to love his beautiful child??? Can he tell them that to their face??? “ I only starting loving you after 20 weeks of pregnancy “…
Some people just cannot admit when they are wrong