There's a pretty big difference between learning a technique and "copying" or "plagiarizing" a style. Bill was literally hosting a TV show and classes to teach people how to paint in his preferred technique. To then be aghast when someone then paints in his method is actually ridiculous. That's like teaching someone to read and then getting mad when you catch them with a book. The "style" in question here is also not very distinctive. The method implies impressionism, but the result is a reasonably accurate depiction of reality. If two artists are asked to realistically render the same thing, both their paintings are naturally going to look very similar. I don't think Bob "copied" anything. He "learned" a method and practiced it extensively.
I should add btw...I didn't dislike this video. I even gave you a sub. Just didn't looooooove the title. Especially knowing how many people will read that title and run with that more than the actual content of the video. That's not your fault...it's just how a lot of people are.
The only thing I don't like is how Bill was forgotten. The sad reality is Bob got popular and the people he worked with didn't want bill to be known as the creator of that style/technique of painting. Down to verbal phrases. But also Bob didn't have much control from the people who were controlling him.
@RubysArtsyLife Ya that is sad. Bob was never shy about crediting Bill though. I put Bob on in the background a lot and he mentions him fairly regularily. But those comments don't stick out in people's minds. I think artists are more sensitive to comments like that cuz we're interested in the inspiration and we wanna learn about more artists...but that's not necassarily the norm.
I never was particularly drawn to the name Bob Ross or the painter. After learning there was a painter named Bill Alexander from whom Bob Ross plagiarized I was inclined to study his work, his method his approach. Bill Alexander has certainly captured my heart as I study his work.
Bill Alexander also was not the creator of the wet on wet technique. There are many really talented artists who have their own shows based on Bob and Bills methods. The first guy to make a show based on this method was not as successful as the second. It is what it is. The audience responded better to Bob.
No bill did not invent the wet on wet technique but he was the first create wet on wet in oil painting with the creation of liquid white but he did not invent the wet on wet technique. I agree people responded better to Bob but it's sad people don't know much of bill
@RubysArtsyLife true but Bills episodes are out there now and have been for a little while and he is always credited with being Bob's mentor, atleast he has been on every documentary based video about Bob and I have seen alot. Personally I don't think a show which teaches people how to paint by itself would become successful. Alot more people watched The Joy Of Painting for Bob. He made it such a relaxing experience.
Alla Prima does not mean wet-on-wet, it means all at once, i.e. painting from start to finish without drying, layering, glazing etc. Bill's method added the "Magic White" step that partially enabled instant aerial perspective to sky and water. I say partially because it created the automatic reduction of insensity toward the horizon, but it maintained the saturation, which is wrong... in real life everything on the horizon is grey, with the water darker than the sky. In Bill's technique, the sky just gets lighter towards the horizon while remaining the same basic colour, and the water is a reflection of the sky. Which is fine if you can't see the actual horizon because there's a mountain range or something in the way - Bob Ross knew this and it's the reason half his paintings included mountains... their purpose was to hide the horizon because he knew that the technique he was using was wrong. Another major flaw in the technique was the planes... sequential flat backdrops one on top of another darkening towards the bottom of the page. Nature isn't so obliging and trees don't grow on mile-wide cardboard cutouts partially obscuring each other... that's how Amateur Dramatic Societies make stage scenery. But Bob's worst mistake was copying Bill's pallette: The colours he used belong in a cartoon or a box of fruitloops. Every single painting either one of them ever made could be improved tenfold simply by switching to a Constable or even Monet pallette. Bob didn't copy everything Bill did... Bill also did florals and still lifes, which Bob never attempted, at least not on the tv shows. Bill was also a better composer... Bob copied about 10 of Bill's scenes which he just painted over and over again with insignificant variations. They both suffered from the almost complete lack of any actual *subjects* - they just painted backgrounds. Finally, I want to address the Copy vs Steal adage: There's no real difference, but what really good artists do is steal from *many* others in search of their own style. Learning exclusively from watching the tutorials of either Bob or Bill will enable you to do precisely what they did: Paint the same greetings cards formula ad nauseam. You won't develop as an artist, you'll just be repeating the same things over and over, like a cook who can only make six dishes... fine if you enjoy it and don't intend it to be more than a hobby, but if you expect to sell your Alexander/Ross formula painting for more than a tenner, you're going to be very disappointed, because when you turn up at the car boot sale, street market or whatever, you're going to find a dozen other artists trying to sell *exactly* the same paintings as you.
Thank you for this comment! It's truly amazing hearing your thoughts I agree with you on the chef comparison! Also thanks for the more in depth meaning of alla prima!
Per Pablo Picassos definition he isn't a great stealing artist but a good copying artist then or is this comment not related to the question I asked at the end?
@@RubysArtsyLifehe didn’t make it past the title. All artists build on the shoulders of giants like Bob did. It’s a clickbait title though in fairness. You knew what you were doing lol
@y0sarian781 it's only Clickbait if the video doesn't match the title which the whole video is about Pablo's quote and determining if Bob fits into good copy artist or great stealing artist.
@@RubysArtsyLife yes but the phrase has connotations in the common sense that differ from the sentiment of the statement Picasso made. You know damn well you could have said “Bob emulated this artist’s style” or something and used the Picasso quote in the piece. The title was meant to illicit controversy, just because you explained the more obscure relevant meaning doesn’t mean you didn’t phrase it that way for the clicks, hence clickbait.
Unfortunately I can't add the quote to the title for context as it would be cut off due to the title being too long. That's why I shortened it. And opened the video with the quote. Also emulate is saying he surpassed bill and I don't think that's true either.
@eljja327 @eljja327 clickbait would mean I lied and this video is not about Bob Ross “copying” another artist. It’s clear you didn’t read much of the comments nor did you watch much of the video. I love Bob Ross and I think he was an amazing painter I even own his paint set with his tutorial. But as an artist, I stand behind this video and this title. If you actually look into Bill Alexander and watch the video you’d see there is a lot of joy in the creation of this video.
@@RubysArtsyLifelearning from someone and giving them credit yeah what a copycat and not gonna even bother anyone can see your contribution in the comments and here is a second video idea for you, bob ross and early use of ai in his paintings ✍🏻✍🏻
This is a well thought out and interesting video, however you are missing one vital piece of information in your analysis of why more people are watching Bob Ross… Bob Ross was not a better artist but rather a better business man. Bob Ross and Annette Kowakski purchased the rights to Bill Alexander’s Magic of Oil Painting series on PBS under the premise that Bob was going to carry on Bill’s legacy… WRONG! This did not happen- once they purchased the rights to all of Bill Alexander’s wonderful PBS shows, Bob and Annette locked away all of these incredible Magic of Oil Painting episodes in a vault so that the public would never see them again, thus eliminating the competition. Bob didn’t copy his competition, he purchased it and then eliminated it. If this isn’t a horrible betrayal, I don’t know what one is. It’s also a terrible crime that the public will never be allowed see these magical PBS shows again when Bill was in his prime.
Thank you for the update! I didn't find that anywhere when I was doing research. But they do have some of bills episodes on RUclips! He was truly an amazing artist!
This is incorrect. Alexander Art supplies and Bill's videos were never purchased by anyone. company still teaches classes to this day. Bob started his own company and left Bills
@oilswithmick thank you! I was confused whether he purchased the show or not since in my research I did not see that Bob bought the rights to bills stuff
The Magic of Oil Painting television series produced by KOCE tv for PBS (when Bill was in his prime and which made him a recognized national star) was purchased by Bob Ross, Inc and Annette Kowalski. I assure you this is true as I own about a dozen of the paintings Bill did during this series. I would love to get a copy of these shows to see Bill painting these pictures, however Annette Kowalski has them locked away in vault so they will never be seen again. All other videos Bill did in his life are owned by Alexander Art who sell these videos along with his paints and brushes.
@erichaschke6213 I did try and find where you got this Info but there is nothing to confirm this. I'd love if you could link it. All I can find is PBS the magic of oil painting ran from February 18, 1974 to May 10, 1982. And Bob Ross started and ran the joy of painting from January 11, 1983, to May 17, 1994. Also no where on Alexanderart.com in bills story does it say Bob Ross Inc or Annette Kowalski bought Bills Magic of oil painting. Commonly the tapes were reused and filmed over so the ones that have survived are on RUclips. If Annette and Bob were to have bought the magic of oil painting show and were locked in a vault they wouldn't be on RUclips today.
There's a pretty big difference between learning a technique and "copying" or "plagiarizing" a style. Bill was literally hosting a TV show and classes to teach people how to paint in his preferred technique. To then be aghast when someone then paints in his method is actually ridiculous. That's like teaching someone to read and then getting mad when you catch them with a book. The "style" in question here is also not very distinctive. The method implies impressionism, but the result is a reasonably accurate depiction of reality. If two artists are asked to realistically render the same thing, both their paintings are naturally going to look very similar. I don't think Bob "copied" anything. He "learned" a method and practiced it extensively.
I should add btw...I didn't dislike this video. I even gave you a sub. Just didn't looooooove the title. Especially knowing how many people will read that title and run with that more than the actual content of the video. That's not your fault...it's just how a lot of people are.
@mentalcase129 no that's completely understandable. I appreciate the criticism.
The only thing I don't like is how Bill was forgotten. The sad reality is Bob got popular and the people he worked with didn't want bill to be known as the creator of that style/technique of painting. Down to verbal phrases. But also Bob didn't have much control from the people who were controlling him.
@RubysArtsyLife Ya that is sad. Bob was never shy about crediting Bill though. I put Bob on in the background a lot and he mentions him fairly regularily. But those comments don't stick out in people's minds. I think artists are more sensitive to comments like that cuz we're interested in the inspiration and we wanna learn about more artists...but that's not necassarily the norm.
I never was particularly drawn to the name Bob Ross or the painter. After learning there was a painter named Bill Alexander from whom Bob Ross plagiarized I was inclined to study his work, his method his approach. Bill Alexander has certainly captured my heart as I study his work.
Right! I was so happy the have his entire story on his website it was so informative!
Title is nonsense. Bob gave credit to Bill Alexander in the VERY FIRST episode of The Joy of Painting.
Yes Bob did give bill credit but credit does not change that fact that the joy of painting is a carbon copy of the magic of oil painting
Bill Alexander also was not the creator of the wet on wet technique. There are many really talented artists who have their own shows based on Bob and Bills methods. The first guy to make a show based on this method was not as successful as the second. It is what it is. The audience responded better to Bob.
No bill did not invent the wet on wet technique but he was the first create wet on wet in oil painting with the creation of liquid white but he did not invent the wet on wet technique. I agree people responded better to Bob but it's sad people don't know much of bill
@RubysArtsyLife true but Bills episodes are out there now and have been for a little while and he is always credited with being Bob's mentor, atleast he has been on every documentary based video about Bob and I have seen alot. Personally I don't think a show which teaches people how to paint by itself would become successful. Alot more people watched The Joy Of Painting for Bob. He made it such a relaxing experience.
really informative!! great video 👍
Alla Prima does not mean wet-on-wet, it means all at once, i.e. painting from start to finish without drying, layering, glazing etc. Bill's method added the "Magic White" step that partially enabled instant aerial perspective to sky and water. I say partially because it created the automatic reduction of insensity toward the horizon, but it maintained the saturation, which is wrong... in real life everything on the horizon is grey, with the water darker than the sky. In Bill's technique, the sky just gets lighter towards the horizon while remaining the same basic colour, and the water is a reflection of the sky. Which is fine if you can't see the actual horizon because there's a mountain range or something in the way - Bob Ross knew this and it's the reason half his paintings included mountains... their purpose was to hide the horizon because he knew that the technique he was using was wrong. Another major flaw in the technique was the planes... sequential flat backdrops one on top of another darkening towards the bottom of the page. Nature isn't so obliging and trees don't grow on mile-wide cardboard cutouts partially obscuring each other... that's how Amateur Dramatic Societies make stage scenery. But Bob's worst mistake was copying Bill's pallette: The colours he used belong in a cartoon or a box of fruitloops. Every single painting either one of them ever made could be improved tenfold simply by switching to a Constable or even Monet pallette. Bob didn't copy everything Bill did... Bill also did florals and still lifes, which Bob never attempted, at least not on the tv shows. Bill was also a better composer... Bob copied about 10 of Bill's scenes which he just painted over and over again with insignificant variations. They both suffered from the almost complete lack of any actual *subjects* - they just painted backgrounds.
Finally, I want to address the Copy vs Steal adage: There's no real difference, but what really good artists do is steal from *many* others in search of their own style. Learning exclusively from watching the tutorials of either Bob or Bill will enable you to do precisely what they did: Paint the same greetings cards formula ad nauseam. You won't develop as an artist, you'll just be repeating the same things over and over, like a cook who can only make six dishes... fine if you enjoy it and don't intend it to be more than a hobby, but if you expect to sell your Alexander/Ross formula painting for more than a tenner, you're going to be very disappointed, because when you turn up at the car boot sale, street market or whatever, you're going to find a dozen other artists trying to sell *exactly* the same paintings as you.
Thank you for this comment! It's truly amazing hearing your thoughts I agree with you on the chef comparison! Also thanks for the more in depth meaning of alla prima!
Bob didn't steal jack shit. Don't taint the man's legacy
Per Pablo Picassos definition he isn't a great stealing artist but a good copying artist then or is this comment not related to the question I asked at the end?
@@RubysArtsyLifehe didn’t make it past the title. All artists build on the shoulders of giants like Bob did. It’s a clickbait title though in fairness. You knew what you were doing lol
@y0sarian781 it's only Clickbait if the video doesn't match the title which the whole video is about Pablo's quote and determining if Bob fits into good copy artist or great stealing artist.
@@RubysArtsyLife yes but the phrase has connotations in the common sense that differ from the sentiment of the statement Picasso made. You know damn well you could have said “Bob emulated this artist’s style” or something and used the Picasso quote in the piece. The title was meant to illicit controversy, just because you explained the more obscure relevant meaning doesn’t mean you didn’t phrase it that way for the clicks, hence clickbait.
Unfortunately I can't add the quote to the title for context as it would be cut off due to the title being too long. That's why I shortened it. And opened the video with the quote. Also emulate is saying he surpassed bill and I don't think that's true either.
okay so joy is not your thing got it
?
@@RubysArtsyLife misleading clickbait video and still keeping it up in the comments really distasteful so yeah far away from the joy bob ross gives
@eljja327 @eljja327 clickbait would mean I lied and this video is not about Bob Ross “copying” another artist. It’s clear you didn’t read much of the comments nor did you watch much of the video. I love Bob Ross and I think he was an amazing painter I even own his paint set with his tutorial. But as an artist, I stand behind this video and this title. If you actually look into Bill Alexander and watch the video you’d see there is a lot of joy in the creation of this video.
@@RubysArtsyLifelearning from someone and giving them credit yeah what a copycat and not gonna even bother anyone can see your contribution in the comments and here is a second video idea for you, bob ross and early use of ai in his paintings ✍🏻✍🏻
This is a well thought out and interesting video, however you are missing one vital piece of information in your analysis of why more people are watching Bob Ross…
Bob Ross was not a better artist but rather a better business man. Bob Ross and Annette Kowakski purchased the rights to Bill Alexander’s Magic of Oil Painting series on PBS under the premise that Bob was going to carry on Bill’s legacy…
WRONG! This did not happen- once they purchased the rights to all of Bill Alexander’s wonderful PBS shows, Bob and Annette locked away all of these incredible Magic of Oil Painting episodes in a vault so that the public would never see them again, thus eliminating the competition. Bob didn’t copy his competition, he purchased it and then eliminated it. If this isn’t a horrible betrayal, I don’t know what one is. It’s also a terrible crime that the public will never be allowed see these magical PBS shows again when Bill was in his prime.
Thank you for the update! I didn't find that anywhere when I was doing research. But they do have some of bills episodes on RUclips! He was truly an amazing artist!
This is incorrect. Alexander Art supplies and Bill's videos were never purchased by anyone. company still teaches classes to this day. Bob started his own company and left Bills
@oilswithmick thank you! I was confused whether he purchased the show or not since in my research I did not see that Bob bought the rights to bills stuff
The Magic of Oil Painting television series produced by KOCE tv for PBS (when Bill was in his prime and which made him a recognized national star) was purchased by Bob Ross, Inc and Annette Kowalski. I assure you this is true as I own about a dozen of the paintings Bill did during this series. I would love to get a copy of these shows to see Bill painting these pictures, however Annette Kowalski has them locked away in vault so they will never be seen again.
All other videos Bill did in his life are owned by Alexander Art who sell these videos along with his paints and brushes.
@erichaschke6213 I did try and find where you got this Info but there is nothing to confirm this. I'd love if you could link it. All I can find is PBS the magic of oil painting ran from February 18, 1974 to May 10, 1982. And Bob Ross started and ran the joy of painting from January 11, 1983, to May 17, 1994. Also no where on Alexanderart.com in bills story does it say Bob Ross Inc or Annette Kowalski bought Bills Magic of oil painting. Commonly the tapes were reused and filmed over so the ones that have survived are on RUclips. If Annette and Bob were to have bought the magic of oil painting show and were locked in a vault they wouldn't be on RUclips today.
You need to learn to pronounce, "protoge".
I didn’t realize I was saying “Protégé” incorrectly. I also learned it’s a French word! Thank you 😊