As a 67 year old runner doing 50 miles per week with one day off and two hard days I consider my 13 mile long run at easy pace one of my hard days. Other hard day alternate one week at tempo other week critical velocity. As I focus on a race every other week the long run includes some longer efforts such as 3 x 2 miles or 2 x 5k at marathon down to half pace
Appreciate the channel. Doing too much hard stuff never made sense to me intuitively even when I knew little about endurance physiology (I’m only a layman with endurance physiology, but knowledgeable from people like you). In HS back in the 90s, my coach would structure the week during season like this: Sunday: 9 miles “easy” (8:00-8:30 was too fast but it was considered “easy” Monday: 9 miles at LT pace Tuesday: track intervals + 1 hour in the weight room Wednesday: 9 miles easy Thursday: track intervals or road intervals + 1 hour weight room Friday: 5 miles easy Saturday: 3 miles easy, 3.1 miles race, 3 miles easy. We raced every Saturday for 13 weeks and the above pattern wavered slightly but the easy days and hard days stayed the same. I was our #2, and I thought this schedule was insane. I used to sandbag the weight room because I was already smoked. There were no days off. I stayed healthy by getting more sleep--it was rough. Once XC was done my senior year, I prepped for endurance track on my own by doing a 7 day a week schedule only 100% of it was easy--and I mean actually easy instead of pseudo easy and 5 days a week were 2-a-days. I was much better in track, mostly (I think) because I dialed the intensity way way down and since I was used to 7 days per week, my body actually was able to recover over time since I wasn’t going deep in the well all the time. We resumed the insanity for track season, but my body was ready…..but I still intuitively felt it was wrong--I just didn’t know why until years later. I’ve heard of coaches still doing this stuff…….like we haven’t learned a thing in 30 years…..
I thought I was pretty smart until I started reading The Science of Running. I appreciate the nuance of these short videos, they are super helpful at providing context. Question as a HS XC coach: how much racing is “too much” racing in-season? What js the best way to prepare your “performance” athletes for championship season where they race 3 times in 24 days for example? How do you balance stress (workouts) with recovery when they’re constantly having to race?
Have been following the channel a while now and this was another great video! Having read quite a number of books on training I find your explanations on how to put it all together to be clearer and more intuitive than what I’ve previously encountered. Just ordered your book Science of running and pre ordered Win the inside game!
Thanks- I liked the way you broke down the different types of training stress. Which sorta’ answers the question I always have. When the plan says “rest day”- that’s when I tend to do my strength training.
Throw in being your 50s and it’s even more of a headache. One speedwork, one tempo, one long run plus maybe one easy run and one strength training, even then that can be too much. Have had some great results but eventually either leads to burnout or injury or both. Still trying to find the balance.. Great content, thanks!
This series is amazing and I love it! I hope this extends to also talking about the Olympic and distance athletes like Jakob Kerr hocker etc and their different training 😊
At least as implemented by Dellinger, Oregon's 70's/80's training is more aptly described as a hard day, then a less hard day. Full intervals on one day (e.g., 6 x 1 mile cutdown) were sometimes followed by a medium length/pace distance steady run and a shorter dose of intervals (e.g., 6 x 200m in 30 w/30 secs rest). Other days after hard sessions were "easy". So it varied. Also, back then, long runs were typically done on Sundays, the day after a 10k XC race, with Mondays being shorter/easier.
Another great video. I was wondering what you think of the training that Yoshihisa Hosaka did? He did a progressive interval workout in the morning and then another one in the evening every single day for a couple decades. I think his morning intervals were relatively easy for him and the evening intervals were extra easy going downhill, allowing for quick active recovery so he could do it again the next day. His body adapted to the speed of the workout and the consistent volume built his marathon endurance.
Could you please do a video on time crunched middle distance runners (4h/week). Currently I am running 2h twice a week, with sprints in the long runs. Love your channel!
Especially I'd like you to answer, 1) which types of racing would be advisable (middle distance? 5 k? 10 k?) given the little training time, 2) which workouts or types of training does work on so little time, 3) if one should periodize or structure the training. Thank you very much :) Nobody thinks of the time crunched population and this is a pity. There is so much potential in it. Often it is just a (short) and pretty stressful phase in ones life, where one would like to go on training, but don't know how.
Yes, but Bannister did short workouts (~30 mins) while in medical school… So, it was hard, but short … it got him fit enough to run the first sub-4 min mile😎
Great content! Could you do a video on the sequence of race pace specific workouts from 2-3months out up until goal race? how to progress race pace specific workouts up until the race specifically for a miler.
Another great video. Perhaps social media influencer content providers have over complication of training as their business model? Just did some interval speed training because I thought I was ready. i wasn't. Be interest in knowing how best to avoid injury and when and how to get back to running following injury.
I feel like I have heard you talk before about designed training in a way to "embarrass" the body. To put the body in a situation which is not pleasant for the body so as to encourage adaptation to address the problem you put it in. Wouldnt this suggest there is a place for putting yourself deep in the well, multiple hard days hitting a similar area of training?
What are your thoughts on JD's training plans (1500m and above)? Also read your book on running science but most plans there seem way overcomplicated and leave me scratching my head. I would ideally see a combination between your style and Daniel's rigorous vdot system and your knowledge on physiology (as he didn't go as in depth as you got with Oregon project)
Daniel's will get you 80-90% of the way there. They are very solid foundational plans. Modernizing and personalizing it will get you the rest. But if in doubt just follow his plans while listening to your body and a willingness to adjust as needed.
What is your opinion on Daniel’s strongly advising that long runs be capped at 2 1/2 hours? That’s only going to get a 340 marathoner about 15-16 miles at training pace.
@@jimgifford3035 From my notes he recommended to cap it at somewhere around 20-25% of the weekly total volume, but maybe I missed this suggestion. I remember though he always gives his schedules in miles not minutes/hours
Yes! It's available on audible: www.amazon.com/Win-Inside-Game-Surviving-Thriving/dp/B0D3RR566L?_encoding=UTF8&qid=&sr=&linkCode=sl1&tag=onanofthtr-20&linkId=85c8f920673fffb8bc770bdff8abf836&language=en_US&ref_=as_li_ss_tl
How in the world will I impress all my social media followers other than trying (and mostly failing) to go "hard" or "all-out"? They aren't here to watch me do my boring long runs or some moderate strides. I need to be balls to the walls all day every day! Joking aside. It's still crazy that so many people don't double check their training sessions and see an obvious dip in performance towards the end of each of those hard sessions.
My current training block is 10k at 60min, Mon Wed Fri road run. Saturday weights (or xtrain) Sunday 2hr long run. My "hard" days, Tues & Thurs are at 5k pace but on a treadmill, either in a "hill" session or increasing speed, or just increasing the distance I run at the 5kpace towards an hour. Would you say those treadmill days are truly "hard" variations, despite being a bit easier stress on the joints, or am I just pushing myself too much all week long, with not enough variation.
Inflammation takes time to dissipate as well . . . If I do a 10K trail run as hard as I can (race or time trial) I can still feel it 5 days later even if I just walk 10 miles a day for that 5 days so I dont run one again for 2 weeks. I have no idea if that's the best practice or not. I often find I cannot get close to my PB time but once every three to four weeks and maybe set a new PB three to four times a year but I'm also a senior, not a 20 year old
The old standard rule was- a day of rest/recovery is required for every mile at race pace. So yeah, a raced 10K would take most people a week to recover from. And we old guys… probably even more.
Reminds me of a brilliant post you wrote about density in training schedules. How the space between stuff matters. There was a Canova post about the traditional Kenyan Marathon programme on Letsrun when he explained that going hard every two days would just burn them out. They need more recovery to absorb the training. So they vary volume and intensity. Hard track on a Tuesday, Moderate fartlek on a Thursday and hard intensity long run on a Saturday. Moderate track on Tuesday, Hard Fartlek on Thursday and Moderate intensity long run on a Saturday. Repeat.
For who? When? And with which intensities, durations etc? All of this is covered in this and other videos of his. I suggest re-watching, pausing and taking notes.
It's not "stress and recovery" - it's "stress, recovery and adaptation". And too much stress gets in the way of adaptation, even tho we feel "recovered".
You look a lot better than in some of the previous podcasts where you looked a bit disshelved. I think if you want people to listen and to buy your product, continue what you did today.
Hey have you red speeskater Nils van der poel training ’log? He trained 5x the weekdays everyday long, when he did threshold he did that every day. Did he violate this principle very very much?
Hey have you red speeskater Nils van der poel training ’log? He trained 5x the weekdays everyday long, when he did threshold he did that every day. Did he violate this principle very very much?
![Felix "Unfair" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Oswujxm2Ag0/mqdefault.jpg)
The irony of RUclips serving me an AG1 ad on one of Steve's videos.
I got one about entrepreneurs and drinking, and I am a teetotaler and not an entrepreneur.
As a 67 year old runner doing 50 miles per week with one day off and two hard days I consider my 13 mile long run at easy pace one of my hard days. Other hard day alternate one week at tempo other week critical velocity. As I focus on a race every other week the long run includes some longer efforts such as 3 x 2 miles or 2 x 5k at marathon down to half pace
Appreciate the channel. Doing too much hard stuff never made sense to me intuitively even when I knew little about endurance physiology (I’m only a layman with endurance physiology, but knowledgeable from people like you). In HS back in the 90s, my coach would structure the week during season like this:
Sunday: 9 miles “easy” (8:00-8:30 was too fast but it was considered “easy”
Monday: 9 miles at LT pace
Tuesday: track intervals + 1 hour in the weight room
Wednesday: 9 miles easy
Thursday: track intervals or road intervals + 1 hour weight room
Friday: 5 miles easy
Saturday: 3 miles easy, 3.1 miles race, 3 miles easy.
We raced every Saturday for 13 weeks and the above pattern wavered slightly but the easy days and hard days stayed the same. I was our #2, and I thought this schedule was insane. I used to sandbag the weight room because I was already smoked. There were no days off. I stayed healthy by getting more sleep--it was rough. Once XC was done my senior year, I prepped for endurance track on my own by doing a 7 day a week schedule only 100% of it was easy--and I mean actually easy instead of pseudo easy and 5 days a week were 2-a-days. I was much better in track, mostly (I think) because I dialed the intensity way way down and since I was used to 7 days per week, my body actually was able to recover over time since I wasn’t going deep in the well all the time. We resumed the insanity for track season, but my body was ready…..but I still intuitively felt it was wrong--I just didn’t know why until years later. I’ve heard of coaches still doing this stuff…….like we haven’t learned a thing in 30 years…..
Your content is absolute gold. So much value and relevant examples packed into 23 minutes. Lot to take away from these- thank you for sharing.
I appreciate that! Thanks for watching.
I thought I was pretty smart until I started reading The Science of Running. I appreciate the nuance of these short videos, they are super helpful at providing context. Question as a HS XC coach: how much racing is “too much” racing in-season? What js the best way to prepare your “performance” athletes for championship season where they race 3 times in 24 days for example? How do you balance stress (workouts) with recovery when they’re constantly having to race?
This explains a lot of what I am going through during training. Thanks !
Have been following the channel a while now and this was another great video! Having read quite a number of books on training I find your explanations on how to put it all together to be clearer and more intuitive than what I’ve previously encountered. Just ordered your book Science of running and pre ordered Win the inside game!
Glad it was helpful!
Thank you for the great content and for keeping training formats based on legitimate research.
Thanks- I liked the way you broke down the different types of training stress. Which sorta’ answers the question I always have. When the plan says “rest day”- that’s when I tend to do my strength training.
Throw in being your 50s and it’s even more of a headache. One speedwork, one tempo, one long run plus maybe one easy run and one strength training, even then that can be too much. Have had some great results but eventually either leads to burnout or injury or both. Still trying to find the balance.. Great content, thanks!
Another 20+ minute knowledge bomb!
top shelf discussion. thanks
This series is amazing and I love it! I hope this extends to also talking about the Olympic and distance athletes like Jakob Kerr hocker etc and their different training 😊
Awesome, thank you!
Thanks for sharing your knowledge, I bought your book as a way to say thanks for all the good advice!!
Amazing. Thanks so much. Writing is what pays the bills and allows me to share other info like this for free.
Thank you to shade light into this, sometimes, confusing topic. Appreciate!
Glad it was helpful!
Do hard things (along with a lot of easy things)
Thx for publishing again to the channel "Good quality S**t".
Glad you enjoy it!
At least as implemented by Dellinger, Oregon's 70's/80's training is more aptly described as a hard day, then a less hard day. Full intervals on one day (e.g., 6 x 1 mile cutdown) were sometimes followed by a medium length/pace distance steady run and a shorter dose of intervals (e.g., 6 x 200m in 30 w/30 secs rest). Other days after hard sessions were "easy". So it varied. Also, back then, long runs were typically done on Sundays, the day after a 10k XC race, with Mondays being shorter/easier.
Another great video. I was wondering what you think of the training that Yoshihisa Hosaka did? He did a progressive interval workout in the morning and then another one in the evening every single day for a couple decades. I think his morning intervals were relatively easy for him and the evening intervals were extra easy going downhill, allowing for quick active recovery so he could do it again the next day. His body adapted to the speed of the workout and the consistent volume built his marathon endurance.
Could you please do a video on time crunched middle distance runners (4h/week). Currently I am running 2h twice a week, with sprints in the long runs. Love your channel!
Especially I'd like you to answer, 1) which types of racing would be advisable (middle distance? 5 k? 10 k?) given the little training time, 2) which workouts or types of training does work on so little time, 3) if one should periodize or structure the training. Thank you very much :) Nobody thinks of the time crunched population and this is a pity. There is so much potential in it. Often it is just a (short) and pretty stressful phase in ones life, where one would like to go on training, but don't know how.
Yes, but Bannister did short workouts (~30 mins) while in medical school… So, it was hard, but short … it got him fit enough to run the first sub-4 min mile😎
You really are top notch!
Thanks so much!
Great content! Could you do a video on the sequence of race pace specific workouts from 2-3months out up until goal race? how to progress race pace specific workouts up until the race specifically for a miler.
Another great video. Perhaps social media influencer content providers have over complication of training as their business model? Just did some interval speed training because I thought I was ready. i wasn't. Be interest in knowing how best to avoid injury and when and how to get back to running following injury.
Sounds like you may need to build up your base
@@theartofrunning Can't at the moment: I'm injured.
Thanks for more great content. Would love to see a video on psychology 🙏
Coming soon!
Love it!
In a more just world, Steve would be the top running “influencer”
Ha! Just don't make me do all the ridiculous things running influencers seem to do...
Thank you for sharing free qualify education!🙌 Where can I order your book??
Thanks so much. Links to order are here: www.stevemagness.com/win-the-inside-game/
I feel like I have heard you talk before about designed training in a way to "embarrass" the body. To put the body in a situation which is not pleasant for the body so as to encourage adaptation to address the problem you put it in. Wouldnt this suggest there is a place for putting yourself deep in the well, multiple hard days hitting a similar area of training?
What are your thoughts on JD's training plans (1500m and above)? Also read your book on running science but most plans there seem way overcomplicated and leave me scratching my head. I would ideally see a combination between your style and Daniel's rigorous vdot system and your knowledge on physiology (as he didn't go as in depth as you got with Oregon project)
Daniel's will get you 80-90% of the way there. They are very solid foundational plans. Modernizing and personalizing it will get you the rest. But if in doubt just follow his plans while listening to your body and a willingness to adjust as needed.
Agreed. Daniels will get you most of the way there. A great starting point.
What is your opinion on Daniel’s strongly advising that long runs be capped at 2 1/2 hours? That’s only going to get a 340 marathoner about 15-16 miles at training pace.
@@jimgifford3035 From my notes he recommended to cap it at somewhere around 20-25% of the weekly total volume, but maybe I missed this suggestion. I remember though he always gives his schedules in miles not minutes/hours
Does you book come in audio?
Yes! It's available on audible: www.amazon.com/Win-Inside-Game-Surviving-Thriving/dp/B0D3RR566L?_encoding=UTF8&qid=&sr=&linkCode=sl1&tag=onanofthtr-20&linkId=85c8f920673fffb8bc770bdff8abf836&language=en_US&ref_=as_li_ss_tl
How in the world will I impress all my social media followers other than trying (and mostly failing) to go "hard" or "all-out"? They aren't here to watch me do my boring long runs or some moderate strides. I need to be balls to the walls all day every day!
Joking aside. It's still crazy that so many people don't double check their training sessions and see an obvious dip in performance towards the end of each of those hard sessions.
My current training block is 10k at 60min, Mon Wed Fri road run. Saturday weights (or xtrain) Sunday 2hr long run. My "hard" days, Tues & Thurs are at 5k pace but on a treadmill, either in a "hill" session or increasing speed, or just increasing the distance I run at the 5kpace towards an hour.
Would you say those treadmill days are truly "hard" variations, despite being a bit easier stress on the joints, or am I just pushing myself too much all week long, with not enough variation.
Inflammation takes time to dissipate as well . . .
If I do a 10K trail run as hard as I can (race or time trial) I can still feel it 5 days later even if I just walk 10 miles a day for that 5 days so I dont run one again for 2 weeks. I have no idea if that's the best practice or not. I often find I cannot get close to my PB time but once every three to four weeks and maybe set a new PB three to four times a year but I'm also a senior, not a 20 year old
The old standard rule was- a day of rest/recovery is required for every mile at race pace. So yeah, a raced 10K would take most people a week to recover from. And we old guys… probably even more.
Reminds me of a brilliant post you wrote about density in training schedules. How the space between stuff matters.
There was a Canova post about the traditional Kenyan Marathon programme on Letsrun when he explained that going hard every two days would just burn them out. They need more recovery to absorb the training. So they vary volume and intensity. Hard track on a Tuesday, Moderate fartlek on a Thursday and hard intensity long run on a Saturday. Moderate track on Tuesday, Hard Fartlek on Thursday and Moderate intensity long run on a Saturday. Repeat.
Waiting for the video is if double threshold is a good idea.
For who? When? And with which intensities, durations etc? All of this is covered in this and other videos of his. I suggest re-watching, pausing and taking notes.
It's not "stress and recovery" - it's "stress, recovery and adaptation". And too much stress gets in the way of adaptation, even tho we feel "recovered".
You look a lot better than in some of the previous podcasts where you looked a bit disshelved. I think if you want people to listen and to buy your product, continue what you did today.
Stupid comment
Hey have you red speeskater Nils van der poel training ’log? He trained 5x the weekdays everyday long, when he did threshold he did that every day. Did he violate this principle very very much?
🙏🏽🙏🏽
Hey have you red speeskater Nils van der poel training ’log? He trained 5x the weekdays everyday long, when he did threshold he did that every day. Did he violate this principle very very much?