The intros still speak to me on a spiritual level. Possibly because I've been working all night and my mind is gone but whatever. It's always a good time for knives.
Pete, another appreciated test result from a very dedicated soldier who we would be mostly lost in the edge retention world without. Thanks, we love ya mate.
Intro was completely nuts! I love it. Man, you were working hard on this one. Always great content. Thanks for the time and effort you put into these informative videos. I especially like the bar graphs you included.
New intro is on point, I love the “seriously not serious” vibe the knaf lab has but it still provides useful info on the steels too. Keep it up Pete, always a good day when there’s a new C&A vid to watch👍🏻
Was happy to see you come up when I typed in this steel Pete! Just ordered a custom from Jelio knives in v4e, can't wait to see how it preforms, done to 64 hrc :)
I come for the rockin beats.... you never disappoint on that front. Seriously bro, how is it your glasses didn't fog up with that much perspiration?!?! Amazing work 😘
(Quite a while ago now) Almost lost a finger....TWICE, on a Bradford knife in the field in Iraq.When I got home I spoke to him (Brad,owner)about safety issues.(He got mad..in a nice Mormon way).He said knife was fine and,well you can think how the convo went. I rarely use forums but in this case I did.( at the time few to no others had the knife in hand, I was one of the first). I got the usual dumb trolls saying "learn to use a knife Marine" and other dumb comments from NON owners of the knife. I suggested a better handle design(safer) even drew and sent him pics,that we talked about such on the phone. He nicely shrugged it off,more or less. Some time passed and vids and forums started showing up ALL over about people bitching about it being an UNsafe design. I could go on about this but wont. Bradford 3.5 is the EXACT shape I drew him years ago. I saw the new 3 and its ANOTHER that I drew. I would assume future batches of all knives will be better/smarter designs. I am not mad,despite needless injurieS. Brad really is a good guy. I AM glad he changed things for the (much) better. The Bradford in this vid is his old style. If Bark River did not exist I would own a new Guardian 3.5. My last 2 knives ever and 2 favs : Bark River CPM 154 Bushbat on duty and my actual "EDC" www.dlttrading.com/mini-kephart-black-canvas-micarta-317 (will be back in stock this week) This is my favorite knife ...EVER * I wish that Bradford 3.5 was a bit more blade..say 3.5 to nearly 4 useable Would be hard not to own one. Bradfords HT/Cryo system is AMAZING...wonder who does it...M390 anyway **Safer new style bradfordknives.com/guardian3-sheepsfoot/454-limited-g3s-vanadis-4e.html Semper FI Gunny
They get their heat treatment done by Peters and use a double temper and cryogenic processing. I bought my son a guardian 3 in M390, it's very impressive, but I prefer a larger knife with a guard. Semper Fi, Devil Dog. Brett
@@brettfreeman9693 Yep need a guard OR at least not a razor sharp edge on the choil. The 3.5 is safe. Its more or less a White RIver backpacker with nicer steel.
One of us will find out soon, just depends which one of us gets our 4V Para 3 to Kurt first for a Rockwell test. 4V on the first sharpening did very well against cardboard when I tested it. I'm sure it will improve as I get a few more edges on it and get rid of the fatigued steel.
Excellent tests, as always. I wonder how much thickness behind the edge is a factor. Would be interesting to test the same knife at different thicknesses with the same edge to see how it does. Didn't some of the guys from Vanadis 4 leave that group to form Maroon 5?
I'd love to see more folders in either CPM-4V and V4E that aren't impossibly obtainable sprint runs! Should have my Spyderco Para2 in CPM-4V within a couple days here
Hahah...yes, a very cool name. I wonder, Pete, do you find this relaxing? I was getting a little dizzy...as I do when you do two knives in one video. But thanks for your time as I know it likely to longer to conduct your testing than the length of your video.
Vanadis 4 extra is a far superior steel to the overrated in my opinion ofcourse,Magnacut. I hold the same degree in Chemistry/Metallurgy,as the creator of Magnacut does,with the only difference I got it before he was born. That being said,its all about geometry,then heat treatment and lastly steel. Vanadis 4 Extra is my suggestion for a mid sixe outdoors knife. Id be fine with a nicely made 52100 too! If those were not aavailble, only then I'd go for CPM Cruwear or lastly 3V.
As a scientist, I think you are doing pretty damn good as far as making these tests as accurate as possible without going crazy trying to make it perfect. Our day to days arent perfectly constant either in terms of use so this is as good a test as is necessary to give some guidance when selecting steels in my opinion. Anything more is overkill
I really like the look of the Bradford knife. I heard some people say that they are unsafe tho. The 4.5 seems to solve that issue. Thanks for the great head to head. Another great video!
Jim M people have said that with no finger guard, their hands have slipped, cutting them. I don’t have a Bradford knife, so this is only something that I’ve heard. I really like the style of the blade
The HRC on the Spydercos are about 62-63 tested several times, several knives, different models, unique pieces; included in the LTK PMI/HRC compiled testing data PDF file
Depends on the particular 4V run as to what the hardness is. The Fradon Lock and St Nick's Para 3 tested were high 64 to mid 65. The PM2 run was mid 62, the St. Nick's Shaman and Manix tested so far have been 64 to 64.5. There is no blanket hardness for all Spyderco 4V and im sure there are some variations even in the runs that have been teste as well as batch, there has been a 1 point variation in the 2 different Manix runs. My 4V Para 3 tested at 65 multiple times, Kenny's tested at 64.9.
Can you use that rope in the garden? Just to add organic material? Not sure what sisal rope is. Is that a plant based thing? It’s not polyester or plastic right?
Yay, it's here!!! Also I'm pretty sure that spyderco runs their 4V very hard. I've read somewhere that it is around 66-67 hrc and that definitely seems to be true, at least for my knife seeing as how it wore out a silicone carbide stone with almost no effect on the edge when I first tried to sharpen it.
Also it had a lot more micro chipping on the edge when using a course diamond stone than any other steel I have, was a bit of a pain to sharpen, probably took around 6 hours to re-profile it and get it to a mirror polish using lansky diamond and ceramic stones
There's no way Spydecro ran their 4v at 66-67hrc. That's a custom level heat treat that no production company would even attempt. It stated on the site that it's 62.5-64hrc but they were just going of the crucible spec sheet. From what I read it's in the 60-62hrc but those were just educated guesses by makers and users who used the steel at different hardness. I love Spydecro but on a lot of their steel they heat treat towards the softer side. Their m390 tested the worst in the tests i've seen, same with s30v. They do a decent job on maxamet, rex 45, cruwear, k390, super blue, v-toku2, and zdp 189 which is nice.
@@D00MTR33 "custom level" Lol, you do realize that it takes just as much if not more effort and time to reduce the hardness on 4v. I highly doubt that blade I have is under 64hrc, just based on the fact that silicon carbide and ceramic stones have no effect on it. Possibly a mistake with the heat treatment. Also the knife I have is the exclusive manix 2 and based on the fact that unlike a normal manix this one has a smaller grind I'm assuming that also points to them doing a harder heat treatment
@@antimatter4733 So you highly doubt its over 64hrc? That's what you said. All you have to do to run 4v softer is heat treat at a lower temp and temper at a lower temp, nothing hard. It's actually harder to get 4v to 66-67hrc as you claim than to 60-62hrc as a lot if people say it is(at least on the para 3). Spyderco never runs their steels at max hardness, the harder the steel the less tough it is and more chances for regular customers to have a chip or a broken tip and have a warranty issue. And the hollow grind on the manix 2 has nothing to do with the hardness they ran it, if anything they'd want it lower since a hollow grind is weaker than a ffg. Who knows, maybe your knife has a "blown"/wrong heat treat and is harder than supposed to be. That's not necessarily a good thing. And SiC is much harder than 64-67hrc, it's a 9-9.5 on the mohs scale which is roughly 90-95hrc(not that simple but close enough) so it should eat any steel up like nothing.
@@D00MTR33 exactly, as you've just stated it's not more difficult at all to heat treat it to a higher hardness, just change the temperature. How tf is a full page grind weaker than a saber grind. This grind is thicker all the way to the edge. The paper I got with the knife from spyderco even said that it was a stronger grind, and I'd take their opinion over yours any time. Anyways i have the knife and you don't so you're entitled to your opinion despite it being incorrect and not based on any observations, just assumptions and what you've read online from tests on completely different knives. I know that it wore out a silicon carbide stone and took 3 hours of sharpening on a ceramic stone without even turning the oil black, that's more than enough proof for me. So as much as I appreciate your opinion (I don't) I really don't care what it is.
I bought a Guardian 3 in 4E and had a horrible experience which I’m sure was a fluke. Before even cutting anything I noticed that the factory edge was far from stunning & decided to just have at it with my KME. Besides it immediately showing the unevenness of the grind, the last 1-1/2” or so nearest the handle did nothing more than fold back & forth. It was returned to wherever I bought it without question but since they’re made with such variety of handles & finishes on the blade they didn’t have a replacement at that time. Haven’t bought on yet but it made me kinda leery. My son has had a Guardian 3 in M390 for a few years & I do the sharpening on it every 4-6 months and it has been a fantastic knife. It’s his daily carry and as a truck driver it sees a ton of plastic band, cardboard & other assorted cutting. Knowing how great that one is was my motive to try the 4E
GPK I think still has some Bradfords with 4e think it was an exclusive run but I think they still have some and this batch was from months ago and around the same time they had some in Rex45 think they may still have some of those as well. Not sure exactly which model Bradford they are but they had big batches with multiple finish and handle choices for both. St Nicks just had their exclusive run of the GiantMouse Grand in 4e what lead me here. I ended up with 2 of the Grands. Didn't realize I bought 2 till they showed up but oh well lol. I can keep one and use one or maybe trade one for something else whatever but I have all the SNK Spydercos and I have the Brian Brown and Something Obscene exclusives from there on pre order so have to keep it going I guess. There was 375 of the GiantMouse made
Vanadis 4 is a bit different from 4v and 4 extra. It has more Cr and less Moly. From everything I've seen Spyderco runs their 4v at 65hrc. That was from almost 10 tests of different para 3s and manix 2s.
Those are two steels I'm not familiar with , but anything in the 600's is pretty frickin good . What where the cut numbers when using a 20° Work Sharp edge ?
Maybe this is is just me but somehow it seems that every steel made by crucible performs a little worse than their counterpart from other companies(or steel with similar compositions from other companies)... Examples being cpm-20cv, 4v, etc. maybe not by much but it is quite consistent... Do you agree?
I love how Bradford > everything. Logically, semi-customs are nothing more than production runs imitating custom quality. But "scientifically", as you put it, the ends justify the means.
The intros still speak to me on a spiritual level. Possibly because I've been working all night and my mind is gone but whatever. It's always a good time for knives.
Pete, another appreciated test result from a very dedicated soldier who we would be mostly lost in the edge retention world without. Thanks, we love ya mate.
Intro was completely nuts! I love it. Man, you were working hard on this one. Always great content. Thanks for the time and effort you put into these informative videos. I especially like the bar graphs you included.
New intro is on point, I love the “seriously not serious” vibe the knaf lab has but it still provides useful info on the steels too. Keep it up Pete, always a good day when there’s a new C&A vid to watch👍🏻
Actually Vanadis 4 is a constellation located in the upper portion of Uranus!
Was happy to see you come up when I typed in this steel Pete! Just ordered a custom from Jelio knives in v4e, can't wait to see how it preforms, done to 64 hrc :)
I was a roadie for Vanadis Four back in the day. I even appeared in one of their music videos and got paid as an ‘extra’ for that.
ImI
Your intro reminds me of the powerthirst videos. Thanks for you're time and effort you put into your videos man.
Of course I recognized the Lone Star Legend in the intro! He’s a neighbor! Good job Pete!
I come for the rockin beats.... you never disappoint on that front.
Seriously bro, how is it your glasses didn't fog up with that much perspiration?!?! Amazing work 😘
That was the most epic intro I've ever seen!!!!!
I've been hoping for this comparison for years haha. Keep up the great work bud, and can't help but agree on the name lmao
YAY, Pete video in the morning :D
A/C unit for the shed fund. 😂
He'd just spend it on rope.
Yeah, we should start a GoFundMe
its probably not insulated lol.
@@runrin_
Yep. Isolation first. Then a/c. Most of people forget about this fact.
Good lord that intro made me happy LOL!!!
Another entertaining opener, never know what Pete is going to unleash on the world.
(Quite a while ago now) Almost lost a finger....TWICE, on a Bradford knife in the field in Iraq.When I got home I spoke to him (Brad,owner)about safety issues.(He got mad..in a nice Mormon way).He said knife was fine and,well you can think how the convo went. I rarely use forums but in this case I did.( at the time few to no others had the knife in hand, I was one of the first). I got the usual dumb trolls saying "learn to use a knife Marine" and other dumb comments from NON owners of the knife. I suggested a better handle design(safer) even drew and sent him pics,that we talked about such on the phone. He nicely shrugged it off,more or less. Some time passed and vids and forums started showing up ALL over about people bitching about it being an UNsafe design. I could go on about this but wont. Bradford 3.5 is the EXACT shape I drew him years ago. I saw the new 3 and its ANOTHER that I drew. I would assume future batches of all knives will be better/smarter designs. I am not mad,despite needless injurieS. Brad really is a good guy. I AM glad he changed things for the (much) better. The Bradford in this vid is his old style. If Bark River did not exist I would own a new Guardian 3.5.
My last 2 knives ever and 2 favs : Bark River CPM 154 Bushbat on duty and my actual "EDC" www.dlttrading.com/mini-kephart-black-canvas-micarta-317 (will be back in stock this week) This is my favorite knife ...EVER
* I wish that Bradford 3.5 was a bit more blade..say 3.5 to nearly 4 useable
Would be hard not to own one.
Bradfords HT/Cryo system is AMAZING...wonder who does it...M390 anyway
**Safer new style bradfordknives.com/guardian3-sheepsfoot/454-limited-g3s-vanadis-4e.html
Semper FI
Gunny
A subtle, yet very important design modification. I'm glad they (very quietly) took your advice and design mod.
They get their heat treatment done by Peters and use a double temper and cryogenic processing. I bought my son a guardian 3 in M390, it's very impressive, but I prefer a larger knife with a guard.
Semper Fi, Devil Dog.
Brett
@@brettfreeman9693 Yep need a guard OR at least not a razor sharp edge on the choil. The 3.5 is safe. Its more or less a White RIver backpacker with nicer steel.
Love the intro!! And the other part as usual
One of us will find out soon, just depends which one of us gets our 4V Para 3 to Kurt first for a Rockwell test. 4V on the first sharpening did very well against cardboard when I tested it. I'm sure it will improve as I get a few more edges on it and get rid of the fatigued steel.
As always, damned fine work good sir.
You had me at the clip from Predator
Excellent tests, as always. I wonder how much thickness behind the edge is a factor. Would be interesting to test the same knife at different thicknesses with the same edge to see how it does.
Didn't some of the guys from Vanadis 4 leave that group to form Maroon 5?
Great vid. Thanks!
I'd love to see more folders in either CPM-4V and V4E that aren't impossibly obtainable sprint runs! Should have my Spyderco Para2 in CPM-4V within a couple days here
Hahah...yes, a very cool name. I wonder, Pete, do you find this relaxing? I was getting a little dizzy...as I do when you do two knives in one video. But thanks for your time as I know it likely to longer to conduct your testing than the length of your video.
I have guardians in V4E and Magnacut. The V4E really seems to hold a much better edge. Probably the HT
Vanadis 4 extra is a far superior steel to the overrated in my opinion ofcourse,Magnacut. I hold the same degree in Chemistry/Metallurgy,as the creator of Magnacut does,with the only difference I got it before he was born. That being said,its all about geometry,then heat treatment and lastly steel. Vanadis 4 Extra is my suggestion for a mid sixe outdoors knife. Id be fine with a nicely made 52100 too! If those were not aavailble, only then I'd go for CPM Cruwear or lastly 3V.
As a scientist, I think you are doing pretty damn good as far as making these tests as accurate as possible without going crazy trying to make it perfect. Our day to days arent perfectly constant either in terms of use so this is as good a test as is necessary to give some guidance when selecting steels in my opinion. Anything more is overkill
I really like the look of the Bradford knife. I heard some people say that they are unsafe tho. The 4.5 seems to solve that issue. Thanks for the great head to head. Another great video!
49Giants Unsafe? Why? (Seriously curious as I want a G-4)
Jim M people have said that with no finger guard, their hands have slipped, cutting them. I don’t have a Bradford knife, so this is only something that I’ve heard. I really like the style of the blade
thanks man so great
The HRC on the Spydercos are about 62-63 tested several times, several knives, different models, unique pieces; included in the LTK PMI/HRC compiled testing data
PDF file
Depends on the particular 4V run as to what the hardness is. The Fradon Lock and St Nick's Para 3 tested were high 64 to mid 65. The PM2 run was mid 62, the St. Nick's Shaman and Manix tested so far have been 64 to 64.5. There is no blanket hardness for all Spyderco 4V and im sure there are some variations even in the runs that have been teste as well as batch, there has been a 1 point variation in the 2 different Manix runs. My 4V Para 3 tested at 65 multiple times, Kenny's tested at 64.9.
Please test Damasteel Ds93x and Keep up the great work!
Diggin the red pants
This is like meme review with a knife theme.
Corrosion resistance underarm sweat test
I bet if the blade steel was flipped with the spydie with vad 4e and Bradford with 4v the results would be much different.
Can you use that rope in the garden? Just to add organic material? Not sure what sisal rope is. Is that a plant based thing? It’s not polyester or plastic right?
Yay, it's here!!!
Also I'm pretty sure that spyderco runs their 4V very hard. I've read somewhere that it is around 66-67 hrc and that definitely seems to be true, at least for my knife seeing as how it wore out a silicone carbide stone with almost no effect on the edge when I first tried to sharpen it.
Also it had a lot more micro chipping on the edge when using a course diamond stone than any other steel I have, was a bit of a pain to sharpen, probably took around 6 hours to re-profile it and get it to a mirror polish using lansky diamond and ceramic stones
There's no way Spydecro ran their 4v at 66-67hrc. That's a custom level heat treat that no production company would even attempt. It stated on the site that it's 62.5-64hrc but they were just going of the crucible spec sheet. From what I read it's in the 60-62hrc but those were just educated guesses by makers and users who used the steel at different hardness. I love Spydecro but on a lot of their steel they heat treat towards the softer side. Their m390 tested the worst in the tests i've seen, same with s30v. They do a decent job on maxamet, rex 45, cruwear, k390, super blue, v-toku2, and zdp 189 which is nice.
@@D00MTR33 "custom level"
Lol, you do realize that it takes just as much if not more effort and time to reduce the hardness on 4v. I highly doubt that blade I have is under 64hrc, just based on the fact that silicon carbide and ceramic stones have no effect on it. Possibly a mistake with the heat treatment. Also the knife I have is the exclusive manix 2 and based on the fact that unlike a normal manix this one has a smaller grind I'm assuming that also points to them doing a harder heat treatment
@@antimatter4733 So you highly doubt its over 64hrc? That's what you said. All you have to do to run 4v softer is heat treat at a lower temp and temper at a lower temp, nothing hard. It's actually harder to get 4v to 66-67hrc as you claim than to 60-62hrc as a lot if people say it is(at least on the para 3). Spyderco never runs their steels at max hardness, the harder the steel the less tough it is and more chances for regular customers to have a chip or a broken tip and have a warranty issue. And the hollow grind on the manix 2 has nothing to do with the hardness they ran it, if anything they'd want it lower since a hollow grind is weaker than a ffg.
Who knows, maybe your knife has a "blown"/wrong heat treat and is harder than supposed to be. That's not necessarily a good thing. And SiC is much harder than 64-67hrc, it's a 9-9.5 on the mohs scale which is roughly 90-95hrc(not that simple but close enough) so it should eat any steel up like nothing.
@@D00MTR33 exactly, as you've just stated it's not more difficult at all to heat treat it to a higher hardness, just change the temperature. How tf is a full page grind weaker than a saber grind. This grind is thicker all the way to the edge. The paper I got with the knife from spyderco even said that it was a stronger grind, and I'd take their opinion over yours any time. Anyways i have the knife and you don't so you're entitled to your opinion despite it being incorrect and not based on any observations, just assumptions and what you've read online from tests on completely different knives. I know that it wore out a silicon carbide stone and took 3 hours of sharpening on a ceramic stone without even turning the oil black, that's more than enough proof for me. So as much as I appreciate your opinion (I don't) I really don't care what it is.
One major thing is that Vanadis 4E is a Nitride steel
I bought a Guardian 3 in 4E and had a horrible experience which I’m sure was a fluke. Before even cutting anything I noticed that the factory edge was far from stunning & decided to just have at it with my KME. Besides it immediately showing the unevenness of the grind, the last 1-1/2” or so nearest the handle did nothing more than fold back & forth. It was returned to wherever I bought it without question but since they’re made with such variety of handles & finishes on the blade they didn’t have a replacement at that time. Haven’t bought on yet but it made me kinda leery. My son has had a Guardian 3 in M390 for a few years & I do the sharpening on it every 4-6 months and it has been a fantastic knife. It’s his daily carry and as a truck driver it sees a ton of plastic band, cardboard & other assorted cutting. Knowing how great that one is was my motive to try the 4E
GPK I think still has some Bradfords with 4e think it was an exclusive run but I think they still have some and this batch was from months ago and around the same time they had some in Rex45 think they may still have some of those as well. Not sure exactly which model Bradford they are but they had big batches with multiple finish and handle choices for both. St Nicks just had their exclusive run of the GiantMouse Grand in 4e what lead me here. I ended up with 2 of the Grands. Didn't realize I bought 2 till they showed up but oh well lol. I can keep one and use one or maybe trade one for something else whatever but I have all the SNK Spydercos and I have the Brian Brown and Something Obscene exclusives from there on pre order so have to keep it going I guess. There was 375 of the GiantMouse made
Can i buy you a rockwell tester haha
Vanadis 4 is a bit different from 4v and 4 extra. It has more Cr and less Moly. From everything I've seen Spyderco runs their 4v at 65hrc. That was from almost 10 tests of different para 3s and manix 2s.
YASSSSS
Those are two steels I'm not familiar with , but anything in the 600's is pretty frickin good . What where the cut numbers when using a 20° Work Sharp edge ?
The work sharp fucks up the flats of blades and tips of them. Could be why it is shown less on these videos
@@maxguitarhero
Only, if you don't know what your doing.
After a little practice, my blades come out great!!
Maybe this is is just me but somehow it seems that every steel made by crucible performs a little worse than their counterpart from other companies(or steel with similar compositions from other companies)... Examples being cpm-20cv, 4v, etc. maybe not by much but it is quite consistent... Do you agree?
It's been four months were is the fobos?
Merlyn Quasar ive shot a bit, but ive struggled to review it properly. needs a hardcore mountain man review
I think V4E was meant to be what you said but the lead disappeared so it went poof
Interesting result! New watch, Mr one watch!?
yeah! I’ll have to do a quick update on it, I had to go digital!
Cedric & Ada Gear and Outdoors Looks like an old school G Shock.
Tony Canniffe it is! The original
Tony Canniffe hey Tony how you doin my friend
49Giants Well Thanks bloke! Warming up in San Fran yet? Still 30 C plus here. Pete’s has a few 40+ 🥺
I do believe the Bradford uses cryo and the spyderco does not. But no one knows how spyderco does its ht... So can't say that's exactly the case.
You killed the dog.
I love how Bradford > everything. Logically, semi-customs are nothing more than production runs imitating custom quality. But "scientifically", as you put it, the ends justify the means.
God damn sweating all over everything
Where does kangaroo leather come from? Do people eat the kangaroos, or just raise them for skin/glue (that would be sad)? or harvest roadkill?
They are harvested from the wild for both meat and skins
100% random explanation of why this steel is so good. LMAO
Ctsbd1n !!!
lol silicon.
Where's Dickhead Survival Dickhead ?
Intro with naked robot is annoying.. others is cool!
Robots don't need clothes