The Danger of Using French Grip on the Drumset (use THIS grip instead)
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- Опубликовано: 20 май 2021
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If you consistently grip “French-style” with your thumbs on top of the sticks, you may want to reconsider. Today I’m showing you why this is and what you should do instead, but I’ll also show you an exception where French grip actually works really well. Let’s dig in!
Past video digging into finger technique & finger workouts:
“3 Ways to Increase Your Hand Speed:”
• 3 Ways to Increase You...
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Hey Steve, great video as usual. The topic of Grips is so vast. I use the "hybrid" system , switching from the various grips as I play. Even the Traditional grip on occasion. Physical elements that I need to deal with (I'm 69 YO and suffer from a number of arthritic conditions in the spine and many other joints), forces me to to play with "various grips" as I play. Even though I won't be on a stage or a recording studio , playing Gigs { unless some Geriatric Band should materialize}, I am a Resurrected Drummer , playing to My Music in the Basement. Your videos are Invaluable to me, and some others out there too (Drumeo, the 80/20 Drummer, and Rob Brown), and Thank You for your espousing your knowledge. I would offer this to you to help with holding the sticks up high to play your cymbals..... Try doing some light weight lifting (start with 5 lb dumbbells , gravitating to 10 or 15 pounders) doing Upright Rows. It's basically standing up straight, a dumbbell in each hand and raising the weights up to chin ....look it up on line for proper form. That will strengthen your shoulders . include dumbbell arm and wrist curls too. in a few weeks, doing 3 sets of 8 reps , 2 - 3X a week. Be wll, and Thx again.
I haven't played in many years. Started again two months ago. Your lessons are a great reminder to me for what I forgot.
I’m in the same exact boat! I was like this mans channel is a sign from above to finally take me to the next level
Same boat. Recently picked up Evans RealFeel practice pad to work out the basics before picking up another kit. Leaning towards Mapex Armory.
@@KevinMartin1028 that’s a great kit. I just got a pearl masters maple the exact same 5 piece configuration and I’ve been loving it
Clay, I "resumed" playing drums after 50 YEARS of a Hiatus. I'm 69 YO, and yes agreed, Stephen T's lessons are Great. Back in 1966 when I first got into playing drums, I took maybe 8 lessons or so. I couldn't Wait to get to play on a Drum set. I was taught to use the traditional grip , not matched. Now I do , and with arthritis creeping into my hands and thumbs, I use a "hybrid " grip as Steve describes. My wife of 45 years gifted me a cheapo Gammon Kit for Xmas 2018. It was a very Pleasant Surprise. I play only recreationally, in my Basement "studio" created during COVID Hibernation, to My Music : CCR, Petty, Stones, Beatles, Clapton, Mellencamp, Talking Heads, Zombies, Hollies, Eagles, and even Linda Ronstadt [she and her band are terrific , great play along music], and more. Happy Drumming.
Great video, but as an older drummer (not too old, graduated HS in ‘89) and drum teacher myself, I learned French grip from watching Billy Cobham (my drum hero). Yet, I do switch between grips as I move around the set. I also (hybrid) Moeller stroke the snare (twisting/snapping my wrist from French to American or vise versa for double stroke accents on the 1st or 2nd snare strikes.
Take it for what it’s worth, but “good on you” for teaching via RUclips. You are doing a great thing!- Kenny Rhodes
PS
Oh yeah, 40 years of playing without any drum-related wrist or arm issues, so your point on NOT allowing your arm/wrist to absorb the shock from the strike is more important than most think. Many of my drumming peers suffer from carpal tunnel and other drumming-related issues because of technique problems or bad habits, i.e., allowing your body to absorb the shock or “reaction” of the initial snare strike. Newton was right; for every action, there’s an equal and opposite reaction. If you allow yourself to absorb the shock, it’s like continually hitting yourself; it will do severe damage over time. Sorry, I am also a nerdy university professor who is fascinated with the laws of physics and drumming-attempting to utilize these laws for the drummer‘s benefit.
I think learning how to grip loosely enough to not absorb shock is more to the point than adhering to the one and only "correct" grip.
@@alexhicks5889 for sure
Great explanation. This is actually how I developed my grip. Before I even picked up the sticks, I researched grip. As most new players will, I gravitated to French thinking about speed (I know, I know). I quickly realized, though, that American to French was the perfect way to move around the kit. Feels very natural.
I was taught to play the American grip by my drum teacher; i am british btw and i think this is the only good thing the americans have come up with XD
(NB this is a joke, dont cancel me)
No cancel here, mate. I'm impressed that you used Nota Bene (N.B.). I don't see that used often enough...
I'm American and can confirm this as fact
Ma queen
There is a British grip, right, but it’s for holding a pint.
Dude, thank you so much for making this video. I was on the fence about my grip as I fell into French grip naturally because of how fast I could get my doubles and pad work up.
But when I went to the kit I noticed I was having issues with high volume impactful hits. I couldn't find anyone that talked about the detriments or what exactly I was doing wrong.
I'll go back and work on this now. Thanks so much.
I use all of the common 4 grips, German, French, American and traditional! German being my go to but I use hybrids to so for example I may play German in my left hand and French in my right while on the ride. ( Using the Tony Williams ride technique) I have spent years and extensive amount of practice time learning these grips and hybrids. If you watch Steve smith or Dom Famularo ( both of whom I’ve studied with) , Dom for over 12 yrs) you will see they shift through grips effortlessly as needed. I have learned to do the same with their help.
French grip was designed for playing timpani, where you need power, volume control, and rebound, so if you're not able to achieve those things with the grip, you're just not doing it well. Guys like Sonny Emory and Billy Cobham get plenty of power and rebound out of french grip. It's all in how you use the elbow, wrist, and fingers to suit your technique.
But I agree with you on the American style grip just for the sake of versatility. You can always turn the palm in or out as you see fit.
Exactly - just what I was going to say re. Timp rolls!
Simon Phillips also plays with the thumbs up position. It seems to work for him.
There's a story about Gene Krupa where someone was watching his right hand and asked him what grip he was using, as he wasn't holding his stick either French style nor German. Apparently he just looked down at his hand and then looked up and spontaneously said "American." If this story is true---the person who told it wasn't sure if it was---then Gene was the originator of the name.
Yes Gene was the originator of the term American grip!
Another helpful tips for a begginer like Me, thanks Sir.. 😊🥁🇵🇭
This is awesome - I was just talking to my teacher this week about French vs German, this makes it really clear about when to use each one!
I dunno, man. For extreme metal, especially playing blast beats, I find French grip to work best for me. I go between French and American depending on what I'm playing, but I've never had any rebound issues with French grip.
Yeah, you really gotta dedicate some practice time to finger control, but like I said, for really fast extreme metal, French grip all the way!!
Discuss.
Only way to go really is '2nd Fulcrum Grip' like Dave Weckl, Steve Gadd and Bernard Purdey. Let go for your anger and the dark side of the force: That index-finger/thumb grip is what you use to milk a goat not play the drums! Grip thei stick between thumb and middle finger: your index finger should just be a guide for the stick not a pivot point. Try it and you'll be amazed. All the rudiments become easy to play.
i agree
Billy Cobham, Simon Phillips, Carter Beauford...all French grip. Having said that, I think all possible grips should be utilized during a gig. Palms down for snare work, yes, but doing it that way no matter where you are on the the kit doesn't really make practical sense. Heck, I see some great jazz drummers, better than me or this guy, play their ride practically palms up!
Great stuff for the beginners out there but trust, a French grip (when learned correctly) is very powerful. Finger strengthening takes a ton of dedication which means (that 8 letter word) PRACTICE! Work the crap outta your fingers but never neglect the importance of our wrists and proper build up there as well. Steve is fantastic and love his approach and all he says. If you are a match grip player, (or traditional) fingers are a MUST!!!! And proper PRACTICE is key!! Thanks Steve, you are loved!!
I had a long stretch of backsliding in terms of skill, and it turned out to this change in grip
I've been playing for over a year and found i needed to back a few steps to improve on my techniques becaise I have s weak right hand. This is what I was looking for 🙂thabk you
Thank you for the clear demonstration and elaboration! 😍😍😍😍🔥🔥🔥👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻💗💗
Another awesome 👍 video thanks!
The last year i allways played with french grip,and now i have pain on my fingers Fulcrum.This is very cool video,now i change my grip to very loose american and german,i am not so fast now but i don't feel pain anymore in my fulcrum Thanks for video
I Learned drums with the traditional grip back in the 60's and 70's and haven't played for 45 years and am considering taking it up again as a hobby in retirement. I realized that there is no real point to the traditional grip, in that it was designed for marching with the snare drum hanging in a tilted position (In fact, to play matched grip on a drum kit most people tilt their snare to the right) But besides the stunning loss of muscle memory from not playing for 45 years (I could hardly believe it!), when I play with a matched grip my left hand is way worse because I'd almost never used it in a matched grip before. So there will be quite a learning curve, besides just relearning skills. And then there's adding in the 2nd kick drum pedal which I'd never worked with. (Ugh!) It's like playing an entirely new instrument. I've also noticed from RUclips videos that drummers are way better now than they were back then. A lot of this may be due to the tremendous exposure they have to techniques, etc. online. Also, with electronic kits they can practice longer and later into the evening without ticking off their parents, neighbors, and housemates!
Hi Stephen. I often get stuck on what to do with the 3 fingers after the index. I'm not sure how I position the 3 fingers on the drum stick. I am at a beginning level in which I attend drum lessons every week for about a year now but I am still struggling on handling the drum stick properly.
Thanks a lot for ur time
Thank you 🙏🏽 I appreciate you
Hi Stephen. Can you make a video to explain exactly what the fingers are doing in the American grip please? Thanks. I understand the thumb and index play as a pivot but I'm not sure what I'm supposed to do with the other fingers.
Golden clue thx 🥇🥁
Ive been fighting the deep ache burning pain in the index thum part of the wrist and figured its because ive been relying on french grip more than any other and also pushing to play faster and more powerful than I should at 5 months.
Thank you sir
Watch Senri Kawaguchi play. Full French grip. Incredible.
The grip you show in the first 50 seconds of the video, "French grip" is used to TYMPANI. The Tympani are the kettle drums in a symphonic orchestra. That's the grip you use for those, not for drum kit, or marching band, etc.
I think it is worth reminding drummers the number of well known musicians who have had to retire because of the cumulative damage sustained from their years of playing. If you really love playing drums, you will try to ensure you can keep going years down the road.
Love your stuff! I am 67 years old with arthritis! I’m able to work around it pretty well! My main issue is with my left (weak) hand. Traveling around the toms, the stick is all over the place. Not able to control where the stick hits on any particular tom!!! Any suggestions???
"That's the grip I WANT YOU TO USE" -> Change title, please.
I have to say Steven, and maybe it’s my playing style, but watching your French grip exercise for the fingers I see that you’re getting a lot of velocity and snap out of that stick on the practice pad while you’re riding the rebound heavy. Yet you say you can’t get any power out of that grip.
I think of it like the head of my golf club, I’m not transmitting direct power from my shoulder to the head, it’s the whipping snap that transfers it. The flex of the entire path and the head having to travel that much faster in the outer arc, and I can get my snare to crack as loud as I want/need without digging into my heads directly.
In all fairness, I’m not a drummer, I’m a guitar player. And I don’t use one grip on my pick either tho, I’ll go back and forth between how much pick I’m exposing, to palming the pick completely, or even variations in gripping one chord (same voicing just different fingering) for reasons of efficiency or fatigue relief. But my stick grip definitely follows that trend and I’m just developing some fluidity with wrist rotation and open/close finger strokes and now I’m starting to feel more nuance in what I’m doing for sure.
I agree totally about match grip, as a fairly new drummer I had to decide if I needed to invest my time there. I determined that there was not a specific gain from that to my playing to was not a good investment of my time. I am however, putting the time into learning open handed in addition to cross sticking. It definitely aids efficiency in getting around the kit smoothly, and it’s highlighting the hell out of non-dominant hand weakness, which is being addressed by doing this also. So it’s a double value for investment of my time on the kit.
Thanks for posting, I get a lot of good shit from you.
(And drumming took my guitar playing to the next level)
I had hit that road block and this made it where didn’t loose stick often and it probably doubled my hand speed
My biggest weakness as a drummer is quick doubles (or diddles) with my left hand! I can see that my right hand looks better than my left with the freestroke. My problem is after left hand boot camps, deep dive technique lessons, multiple weak hand videos...My right hand is somehow still twice as coordinated as my left! I feel like I'm RIDICULOUSLY RIGHT HANDED...🙄🥁🎵🎵 (I wonder if some people are just naturally more ambidextrous? 🤔)
Yes. Some people are ambidextrous. Put in twice the time with your left hand.
I’m an older guy, using the french grip really damaged my thumb joints over the years. Especially when I had to hit harder. Transitioning my grip at my age is difficult. So this is great info for young drummers. A bit late for me though😉
what are the things on your snare lugs? When you cut to the close up side view of the drum they are easiest to see. They look like little nylon square washers or something. Curious what they do.
It's to stop the lugs from unscrewing as easily when playing so the tuning is more stable
They're called lug locks.
Lug locks are a way to maintain slack tuning. Better off tightening snug enough to maintain tuning.
I just started drums within the last few weeks and noticed that my grip just naturally transitioned to the "American" style of grip. It just felt more comfortable to me and I noticed I felt less fatigued after a few minutes of practice.
8:23 "those fingers really come in handy", brilliant :-)
I play a hybrid where left hand is exclusively French as there's a lot of articulation in what i play on the snare, and the right hand is German with the exception of when I'm on the ride.
Interestingly, as you say, my grip is very loose when in french grip, and the stick is almost floating in free air on high rebound, but I don't feel a lack of control, mostly because I've been doing it for so long. The only downside for me is that the slightest mistake and stick goes flying but that's why I have spare sticks!
Absolutely love your channel and videos, Stephen, but I’ll have to disagree with you on the lack of power and control w the French grip. I’ve played drums for 45 years, and just a few years ago, following the lead of Carter McLean, I have switched to a French grip, on the drum set and any other snare work. And it was very hard to learn, especially for my weaker left hand, and after 42 years of playing more German grip. You can see Carter McLean‘s work he has tons of power with the French grip in specially rim shots. I think the reason you don’t have power is because your back two or three fingers are coming off the stick.
So did the different grips begin with the military (drummer boy) or military band...I have been using the French grip and yes exactly what he said happens...I will be trying the American grip...I haven't got acoustic drums just electronic but GRT for a beginner...
When you see guys like Aquiles Priester who is one the loudest and heaviest metal drummers out there playing the entire career using French grip, you also realize that everything depends 😂
well said! and American grip is the best for drumset imo, its the most versatile in any situation, and the most comfortable
I wouldn’t advocate for French on a drum set either. However, you’re only using one hinge of the grip to say it “doesn’t rebound” while intentionally stopping the stick down and clamping the doubles. Either you don’t understand the grips you’re demonstrating, or you’re being disingenuous for the sake of making your argument stronger to those who are so green they know absolutely nothing. American grip all the way though!
Yes - grip & technique should depend on your body.
@@JesseGuo preach
As someone with carpal tunnel let me just say that French grip avoids issues. I prefer American but anatomy matters so much
I Hit the like when you said "you want to learn traditional you ain't gonna find it here" not rudely, but found it funny hahaha
American!! Great lesson Stephen! 🥁❤
Switzerland is between France and Germany... American grip really should have been called Swiss Grip.
Hellyeah
I always remember Billy Cobham when I think about french grip. He seems to use it a lot.
French grip is useful for doing that whole "flying fingers" technique for single stroke rolls and blastbeats. Personally, I prefer staying with German/American grip and using push-pull for the fast economical single strokes. Some people consider push-pull as a double stroke, even if its RLRL. Who knows. But anyway it's much easier for me to have more dynamics and accents while using German grip.
Billy Cobham uses french grip and, well, gets immense power. . I’m not quite sure how. But agree on the ease of control using American grip.
Romain Goulon is a great example of achieving a lot of rebound as well as power and control with French grip. He is also French, so…maybe that helps too hah
Do u do online lessons???
One reason not to use the French grip after years of playing French grip thumbs on the top my thumbs are knackered
P.S. you also sit way to high on the throne. Your thighs should be parallel to the floor, maybe that's part of your problem.
What is that pads name😁
johnathan
Johnathan lol. No. if you mean the practice pad...it's Aquarian ..almost always out of stock but the BEST esp if you place it on a snare...Good luck Mr Floppy...
@3:50 "the stick is flipping back so far that it's just getting out of hand" ...literally
Stewart Copeland, Virgil Donati and many others are the living proof that traditional grip is NOT exklusively accociated with Jazz. I play traditional for decades now, and my bandmates sometimes wish that the old tale of traditional grip having less power would be true.😁
It actually does have less power just by how the grip itself works. You get much less rebound, more sensitivity, but if someone were to just move from playing matched and then playing traditional, they would notice a very large decrease in rebound. As someone who was going to learn it because “it was cool” and “you cant play jazz without it” I know this for a fact. I decided it wasn’t worth it, and people have actually permanently messed up their fingers by playing traditional.
@@JustysFrank If you know the history of traditional grip, you'll know that it has to do with the angle of the snare drum. If the drum is flat, parallel to the floor, traditional grip doesn't work well and if the drum is angled to the right, matched grip doesn't work well.
@@farshimelt i do know the history, and how to position the snare for trad grip, but even so trad grip just naturally has less rebound.
I notice my thumb hurting some day using the french
Hello Steve, great video however IMHO The title of this video is misleading. it should be about positives about French and American which you demonstrate very well. Curious that you say you don’t get height with French grip and then do a French grip exercise where the stick naturally like a free stroke as high as American! I prefer the French for its lightness of sound, the American is heavier. As you said use the grip that suits you and the music…Both are excellent-. Your video is excellent, I prefer French for small jazz be bop.Very nice loose hands let’s the stick bounce..thanks.
I'm 60 years old and I play for more than 40 years and the French grip has been the best, most fast and effortless grip. I play extreme metal for almost 30 years. No injuries, lots of velocity, fluidity, everything. You don't show the French grip proper.
I play French on my left hand and American on my right...
Play French grip for a month and tell me if your thumb knuckle doesn't feel arthritic. You get so much more leverage/speed from your LOWER base fingers than you do from a fat heavy thumb pressing from on top.
Carter Beauford is the french grip master.
Saying German grip is all wrist is just plain wrong. In German grip you play from your finger tips while getting full range of motion from your wrist.
* heavy marthyn breathing*
Ive discovered the biggest REAL danger is the way the stick can slip and bounce back into your eye - always wear safety glasses and a hardhat !
Sonny Emery doesn't have a problem
It's because these kids are out there trying to be JD Beck :D
Unless you’re Carter Beauford lol
That's because you need to open your hand and release the stick. You're restricting it with your fingers
Until I turned my thumbs down a little I had a bad problem with stick flying out my hand
bruford and cobham alone are enough to take off most of the credibility your arguments may have
“You can’t play good doubles with French grip.” ...folds on the snare then plays decent doubles with better mechanics on the ride.. Hmm
**Will Kennedy Has Entered The Chat**
Eloy Casagrande = French grip
Enough
I think your "grip points" are valid, but overstated to a fault. Many, many, many young learning drummers (especially in churches) seemed to have found a way to navigate the difficulties of getting power, bounce and endurance from this stroke. Also, as a teacher, you should be able to demonstrate the mastery of the technique that you are teaching. I fast- forwarded through the video and did not see it executed in a playing application. Intellectual understanding is the first step, execution is the second. As a teacher, you gotta do both for the sake of the observers. If I missed it, I apologize. If I did not, maybe food for thought. People have a tendency to trust and believe in you more when you "walk the talk".
Not many people know that the French grip dates back to ancient military times when drummers would lead armies into battle. The French military drummers developed the French grip because it made it easier to surrender.
realize i´ve been using american grip with actually knowing american grip XD
You are so wrong! I use french grip is the most powerful, fast, and effortless grip! I blast beat all the time and play extreme metal and the French grip was a revolution for me. Flying fingers technic came easy after. When you play the French grip, you don't do it right either. And, sorry, You're not a very good drummer.
Do what works for you. In my experience American grip is the worst of both worlds rather than the best.
The 8 Dislikes are French XD
This video could have been about 2 mins long.
So your saying that Americans are the best right !? 😁
Thank you, thank you, thank you! I am just a beginner and I was talk French grip and having all those issues you explain although now I need to get someone to actually show me how to hold the sticks because being Blind I have an idea from your explanation although not 100% sure🤍🤍🦋🦋🦋🦋
Go to a teacher and ask him/her to place the sticks in your hand, matched grip, and you'll feel how to hold them.