I can see the naivete of Catherine Howard but Jane knew how dangerous it was to be involved in this activity. How she thought she would not be held liable is a mystery to me.
The Tutor series was so well done. I think Henry when he was knocked out after joisting and had his head hit caused mental illness. Being a woman back then was horrible.
@@janbadinski7126 he was good king during the first 24 years of his reign with some tyrant tendencies, after those 2 jousting accidents he became even more tyrannical after two head injuries and a ulcerated wound that would never heal further worsening his behavior as he aged
Make sure you are not watching dramatizations, rather than actual historical documentation. Wolf Hall might have been fun to watch, but historical accuracy is definitely lacking. If you’re just filling your head with commercial fluff you are not an historian. Enjoy it, but don’t pretend it is true.
I spent hours last night reading up on St Peter ad Vincula after viewing a previous post from you. Victoria's restoration was fascinating but I wish the entire floor had been raised and all questions answered. Has it ever been discovered if Elizabeth planned another burial place for her mother Anne?
I have all of the reports from the restoration work in 1876, including the exhumations, and they are fascinating. They didn't want to touch the chancel at all as they didn't want to disturb the resting places so they just did what was needed. It is frustrating that we don't have all the information, though. No, there's no mention of Elizabeth wanting to do anything with regards to her mother's resting place. Quite possibly she didn't want to draw any more attention to the fact that her mother died a traitor and that she'd been ruled illegitimate.
Loving your series. I thought for sure you were confused on the date for this video until I realized I am not thinking about the time difference. I am on the West Coast of the US. For you, the date is correct! Thanks so much for your videos.
Hey Claire great to learn a little more about Katherine Howard and Jane, fascinating really... Katherine must have been terrified and revolted by henry at this stage of his life but obviously couldn't say no to him... Please please tell us More about the Howard's.. Thanks Paula
I also think Henry had type 2 diabetes that wasn't managed. It means Henry probably couldn't perform for Catherine Howard no matter how attractive she was. Diabetes does that. Also, I agree that Catherine Howard wouldn't want to be intimate with Henry because she found him repulsive.
Emillie Carson i would love to see that video as well. , there is a really good movie about her. Lady Jane on amazon , I don’t know how accurate it is with history. But very very interesting
The turmoil Jane must have been feeling would have been great I'm sure, she had seen members of her family sent to the Tower years before - her husband and Queen Anne, it was a place of misery for the condemned, and she knew once entered, you very rarely left except for that short walk to the scaffold, I am not surprised she did have some kind of mental collapse, she had not wanted to be involved in the queens meetings with her handsome favourite I'm sure, she knew the dangers it wrought and what the price would be if ever discovered, she had been at court a long time, unlike Catherine Howard who was a lot younger than her and had not her foresight and experience, it must have been dreadful for her when it all came out into the open, Jane was guilty of misprision of treason she knew what the punishment was and Henry V111 was determined to see her pay for deceiving him, the Bill of Attainder I feel was put through so Henry would be spared the ordeal of the trial and have his wife's dissolute past aired in public, he was humiliated and shamed he had thought she was his perfect Jewel of womanhood, and in reality she was no better than a common trollop, his fury was also vent on Jane but there were other ladies who were also involved in the queens deceit so what happened to them? They probably were not as actively involved as Jane was, her illness caused concern for the King but as Claire says, it was only concern that she would not pay for her sins if she was diagnosed as a lunatic by his doctors, the careful nursing she had at the home of the Admiral and his wife saw her condition improve and she gradually recovered so that she was more mentally aware of her position, the bill the King passed through parliament which allowed lunatics to be executed was I think appalling, but Henry at this stage was growing ever more tyrannical, due to the discovery of his wife's unfaithfulness, Mary in her reign repealed that bill which shows unfair she thought it was, it was much credit to her character that she did this, mental illness has been a taboo throughout history, the workings of the brain are not fully understood today and those suffered have been treated appallingly in the past, Victorian padded cells and strait jackets etc, however the other bill, the bill of attainder was repealed due her belief that it was not legal as it had not her father's signature, which I understand, poor Jane when her mind became more lucid would have been aware of her coming death and she must have prayed and resolved to meet it as bravely as her dead husband and sister in law had.
LOL! I am also a Tudor "nutter". We may disagree in our assessment of Anne Boleyn, but I truly love to watch your videos. I've always looked at history as not a dry rendition of dates and events - but a wonderful celebration of the people behind the dates and events.
I have been a bit of a closet nutter. I have been obsessed for nearly 30 years, but have kept it to myself a lot. It's only recently I thought to really express it and embrace it. I have been bringing a bag with Anne Boleyn's necklace on, to work with me and it's been positive. I've had a few compliments and ice-breaking conversations. 👍 I feel sorry for Lady Rochford to an extent, but if she really assisted Katherine on secretly meeting Thomas Culpepper then its hard to see how she thought that this would not be a huge risk, especially having been so close to the events of 1536. But it begs the question whether Katherine bribed her, persuaded maybe under some sort of threat. It's a tricky one to really understand what went on here to lead to the violent deaths of Katherine and Jane. I recommend Gareth Russell's book on Katherine (and I know Claire would approve) as it is a fascinating subject. 😊
I think she helped Kathryn as revenge because Henry ruined her and killed her husband. From the letter sent to George Boleyn in the tower I believe she cared about him.
I'm doubtful Jane was actually insane. She was a very clever woman within the court, in the middle of a lot of the intrigue and gossip; not an innocent. I'm sure Jane knew that the mad weren't executed.
Does Euctise Chapys (sorry if the spelling is wrong) have a diary of sorts, the ambassador was there during many serious moments, i would like to know his thoughts on the court of Henry VIII.
I really like Jane [Boleyn] as she was really a strong woman to keep her wits after she was ruined and her sister in law (someone she was close to) aswell as her husband died and I believe retaliate against Henry (when she helped Kathryn cheat). I feel so sorry for her, whether she was actually mad or faking. I'm sure many would have not had the courage to no.1 Write to George Boleyn in the tower and no.2 help Katheryn. Anyhow I love her and I hope our brave Jane rests in peace.
I know you didn't do it in this video but, if you recommend someone else's book, it would be great to have the title listed in the description. Thank you!
@@jenlynncall She was a Protestant who was tortured and then burned at the stake late in Henry VIII's reign. See www.theanneboleynfiles.com/16-july-1546-execution-anne-askew-singular-example-christian-constancy-men-follow/
@@anneboleynfiles I was thinking of her prolonged interrogations by Cromwell. Many days of him probably asking the same questions over and over, making insinuations, gaslighting, possibly threatening her? He wasn't a very nice man.
This lady seemed to court danger, first she was involved with anne and george boleyn who the grim reaper (harry 8) scythed away, then amazingly she served as Catherine Howard's extra marital look out and was scythed away herself as a result. I mean, come on, what on earth was she thinking about!
She was only a lady-in-waiting, so perhaps she was simply doing the queen's bidding. It's hard to know what happened and what pressure she was under, or whether she enjoyed seeing Catherine happy. We just do not know.
My brother, who has no real interest in Tudor history, has a theory that Lady Rochford might have faked her mental breakdown in hope of avoiding execution. He told me this after we had watched that episode on 'The Tudors' which covers the fall of Katherine Howard. In my personal opinion, she wasn't faking her breakdown. I mean, who wouldn't go insane if they thought they were going to be executed? Just look at the state Katherine Howard was in at the beginning of her imprisonment in Syon, where she was in a state of extreme distress and thought by those around her to be at risk of harming herself. It seems to be the usual case (even with Anne Boleyn), they begin their confinement in a frenzied/distressed state and as their execution gets nearer, they become calmer and much stronger. I admire the courage and strength they manage to build. We, in the modern era, should remember their strength and let it guide us through the challenges we face in life.
Even allowing for the passage of time and the changes in thinking this was a horrible thing for the king to do i.e. insist on an execution. Unless she was a direct threat to him he could have just banished her and forbid anyone not a relative from seeing or communicating with her.
🇦🇺🦘 I have always thought that Jane Boleyn, the widow of her executed husband George Boleyn, had been treated unfairly by historians about her life. In relation to THIS matter, yes she was guilty of assisting the then Queen Catherine Howard to 'sleep around'. However, even though Lady Rochford was the older of the two, she would NOT have been in a position to disobey her mistress who was the King's wife. Jane was "caught between a rock and a hard place". She was not wealthy and needed her job and position at Court to survive. That was the only life she had known, and she had already witnessed the downfall of and death of her husband and sister-in-law (Anne Boleyn). I believe that Jane Boleyn would have been absolutely terrified, knowing what fate awaited her when taken to the tower, and was most likely legitimately 'Mad'! The poor woman. 🔔 Thank you Claire 👑🔔👍
I often wonder how different Tudor history would be if only Queen Catherine had birthed a healthy boy. I truly think Henry would have never divorced her. Whether or not he would have still turned out to be a tyrant is debatable. Although I feel the jousting accident had something to do with his personality change.
Good for Mary for overturning the acts of attainder against Catherine Howard and Jane Boleyn ... funny how Mary could be so right on some things and so damned wrong on others.
I can see a possible motive in Jane’s facilitating Katherine’s indiscretion. From Jane’s perspective , it might have seemed that the King and his ministers had defamed and murdered her husband and her cousin . She was well aware of the danger herself and Katherine risked, but nevertheless threw caution to the wind - for some reason. I fancy that reason may have been vengeance. Not only would the arrogant brat of a king have had a cheating wife, but his wife’s affair with Colpepper could have produced a royal heir - an heir who could even end up in line for succession (if something happened to Edward VI), who was not of the royal bloodline . It would have been an incredibly sweet and deep revenge. Not withstanding that Elizabeth would prove to be a truly great Monarch, I pity Jane for becoming yet another victim of Henry, and that she didn’t live to see her failed plan succeed.
Mary Boleyn is a distant ancestress of many notables including Winston Churchill, John Davison Rockefeller, P. G. Wodehouse, Elizabeth Bowes-Lyon [the late Queen Mother and therefore the Queen], Diana, Princess of Wales, Sarah, Duchess of York, Charles Darwin and Thomas West, 3rd Baron De La Warr." So there is still Boleyn blood around. I SAW THIS ON ANOTHER SITE..............
How interesting that Queen Mary l revoked the acts of attainder against Katherine Howard and Jane Boleyn. It just seems to render their deaths that much more ignominious.
I like your videos! I think I might go mad if I was getting ready to be executed! But maybe she was faking it. I am surprised they even gave credence to being insane as barbaric as they were. I’d much rather have been a peasant living in the county in those times.
One thing I'd love to see a video about (not to interrupt the wonderful "on this day..." series) would be an explanation of Katherine Howard's adultery. It seems incredibly foolhardy given Henry's propensity for executing people! So, is there really convincing, impartial evidence that it happened, or could interested parties have wanted to stitch up Katherine? If the evidence does seem convincing, is there any historical documentation that explains why Katherine or Culpepper (or anyone, indeed) would be so reckless of the deadly consequences?
Katherine was very young and I'm really not sure she thought it through. It is said that Culpepper was a scoundrel and considering Henry was old, fat, in incredible pain and smelled bad from his wound, Culpepper was a nice diversion. Maybe she felt safe thinking that she could manipulate Henry or receive his forgiveness. I guess we'll never know for sure.
Personally, I think the sexual abuse Catherine suffered in her childhood affected her mentally. I'm not saying she was crazy, just that she likely had very low self-esteem, combined with a sort of nymphomania. I agree with Pamela Wing that she probably didn't think it through, as well. Also, Henry was old & truly doted on her, so she likely thought she could play & romp & he wouldn't really be paying attention. She didn't calculate on those who were younger, sharper, & had their own axes to grind against the powerful Howards. This has always been my take, anyway. Poor abused girl. 😔
Lust some people love to live on the edge,but I agree why be so stupid? Her best friend told Jane everything about their lives ,katherine was foolish to hire her friend and the big man that was her fate sealed ,katherine Didn't owe neither one a job should have had them banned but they threatened her if she didn't I don't know why she was so foolish
I still think she is the one that suggested that Anne and George did something inappropriate only because i cant wrap my mind around what anyone would have seen to accuse them it must have been something i do not believe it im on Annes side i just cant understand what was seen
Hmmmmmmmmmmmm........I realize this is the 1500s but one would good "nuts" if the were sent to The Tower & sentenced to be beheaded lol. Just sayin'. Also, I'm pretty sure Jane had no choice when it came to helping Cathrine have her "secret affairs" bc is she really going to tell her Lady No. I love these times in history but they definitely weren't fair. 😥😥😣😏🙄
Can't help but feel it was a sort of justice. Jane did give evidence against George & Anne, essentially sealing their deaths. This was the 2nd time Jane was involved in the affairs of Henry's wives -Anne & Catherine.
@@steppy3736 This is true. Especially, with George & being her husband. That most have been such a betrayal for him & Anne. I guess @ the end of the day it's a lesson in greed & being caught up in affairs & curoption. I will say that Anne was far from innocent but she & George both were really dealt an unfair hand.
@@anneboleynfiles I agree with you Claire. I really enjoy your Channel & this series especially. Thank you for the reply & for all the work you put into your content. Keeping the Tudors alive is a wonderful thing. 😀😀
So Mary felt compelled to invalidate the attainders of the already beheaded while digging up and burning the already dead at the stake. 💀🔥I guess she wanted to be The Adjudicater Queen 👸 or better yet The Dead Reckoner.
Why would lady rochford put her life in danger she makes me mad kathrine knew better it was wrong for the affair ,Jane was the adult she encouraged It how shameful,also katherine sealed her fate by hiring her friend to be lady in waiting her big mouth telling the secret about katherine she was part of it to why didn't she get excited also? She had just as much as rochford but yet she lived? Also sir Francis went to the flop house and found kathrine he made her look so virgin which he misled the king ,Brandon also they all to me had a hand in it. Katherine should never hired that black mailer as her secretary knowing she would be exposed, also I wonder who blew the whistle on her ,who wrote the note and put in kings chair I wonder? If you know the answer on these questions I love to know more. Sincerly,Angelia Frm:Waco Texas USA
Jane Boleyn, Lady Rochford, was a maid of honour, so it was her job to do the queen's bidding, so I'm not sure why she gets the blame. It was reckless for her to go along with it, but perhaps she just wanted to see her mistress happy or she was being pressurised, we don't know, but she can't be blamed for Culpeper and Catherine's affair. Catherine knew what she was doing was wrong. It was Mary Hall (née Lascelles) who told her brother, John Lascelles, about Catherine's behaviour in the past and it was he who went to the king's privy council with the information. Catherine did not hire Mary as one of her ladies and Mary had nothing to do with Catherine's subsequent behaviour. Mary was a member of the Dowager Duchess of Norfolk's household with Catherine when Catherine was involved with Manox and Dereham. Dereham had a sexual relationship with Catherine while she was in her stepgrandmother's household. She was not at a "flop house", she was in the household of a dowager duchess, a very important woman. He did nothing to make her look like a virgin. Their relationship fizzled out when he went to Ireland and then Catherine went to court to serve Anne of Cleves as a maid of honour. He was under the assumption that they were betrothed. Brandon? He had nothing to do with this. Catherine was appointed to serve the new queen. Anne of Cleves, and it was while she was serving her that the king noticed her, just the same as he'd noticed Anne Boleyn when she was serving Catherine of Aragon, and Jane Seymour when she was serving Anne Boleyn. Nobody did anything to influence the king or to push Catherine at him, he was simply very unhappy with Anne of Cleves. Francis Dereham's appointment as one of Catherine's secretaries was down to the recommendation of the Dowager Duchess of Norfolk, Catherine's stepgrandmother, and there's no evidence that he did anything to blackmail Catherine. John Lascelles "blew the whistle" after his sister told him about Catherine's sexual past. The privy council then decided that Archbishop Thomas Cranmer should be the one to tell the king. Cranmer couldn't bring himself to tell the king face to face so he put it in a letter. An investigation was then launched and the allegations were found to be true, and then Catherine's meetings with Culpeper also came to light.
Jane Boleyn deserved her execution. She lied when making incest charges against her husband and his sister. Too good for her; she should have been parboiled, dipped in oil, and hung somewhere public. She was a jealous, spiteful wretch. Just because he didn't want to have sex with her (I've never read that anyone did.) didn't mean he had sex with his sister. No one ever believed that.
Anne. Her husband was gay laying with another man ! The Tudor seris word not spelled right but a woman scorned think how she felt knowing he rejected her for a man . But those chamber maids made a lie on every thing.
I'm amazed that more people condemned to the Tower and execution didn't go nuts.
I can see the naivete of Catherine Howard but Jane knew how dangerous it was to be involved in this activity. How she thought she would not be held liable is a mystery to me.
Hi Claire! Love these daily visits! 💜👸👑🏰🎪
The Tutor series was so well done. I think Henry when he was knocked out after joisting and had his head hit caused mental illness. Being a woman back then was horrible.
kat Mats it was a fantastic series. Hopefully Claire will clarify the issue (story) of Henry’s sisters as I think it was glossed over in the series.
He was a tyrant before that injury, but I think the injury made him worse as a tyrant.
Being alive, and in the midst of all these people was horrible... lol. Male or female
@@janbadinski7126 he was good king during the first 24 years of his reign with some tyrant tendencies, after those 2 jousting accidents he became even more tyrannical after two head injuries and a ulcerated wound that would never heal further worsening his behavior as he aged
I also enjoyed the Spanish Princess series.
After seeing what happened to Anne and her husband, it’s shocking that she didn’t run miles away. Let alone get into another scandal
Ajay Let Two words. Gold digger.
Thank you for these videos so interesting, I’ve finally got to watch Wolf Hall so good, I can’t get enough of this period in history ♥️
Make sure you are not watching dramatizations, rather than actual historical documentation.
Wolf Hall might have been fun to watch, but historical accuracy is definitely lacking. If you’re just filling your head with commercial fluff you are not an historian. Enjoy it, but don’t pretend it is true.
I spent hours last night reading up on St Peter ad Vincula after viewing a previous post from you. Victoria's restoration was fascinating but I wish the entire floor had been raised and all questions answered. Has it ever been discovered if Elizabeth planned another burial place for her mother Anne?
I have all of the reports from the restoration work in 1876, including the exhumations, and they are fascinating. They didn't want to touch the chancel at all as they didn't want to disturb the resting places so they just did what was needed. It is frustrating that we don't have all the information, though.
No, there's no mention of Elizabeth wanting to do anything with regards to her mother's resting place. Quite possibly she didn't want to draw any more attention to the fact that her mother died a traitor and that she'd been ruled illegitimate.
Loving your series. I thought for sure you were confused on the date for this video until I realized I am not thinking about the time difference. I am on the West Coast of the US. For you, the date is correct! Thanks so much for your videos.
Hey Claire great to learn a little more about Katherine Howard and Jane, fascinating really... Katherine must have been terrified and revolted by henry at this stage of his life but obviously couldn't say no to him... Please please tell us More about the Howard's.. Thanks Paula
I also think Henry had type 2 diabetes that wasn't managed. It means Henry probably couldn't perform for Catherine Howard no matter how attractive she was. Diabetes does that. Also, I agree that Catherine Howard wouldn't want to be intimate with Henry because she found him repulsive.
Can you do a video about the “9 day
Queen?”
Emillie Carson i would love to see that video as well. , there is a really good movie about her. Lady Jane on amazon , I don’t know how accurate it is with history. But very very interesting
The turmoil Jane must have been feeling would have been great I'm sure, she had seen members of her family sent to the Tower years before - her husband and Queen Anne, it was a place of misery for the condemned, and she knew once entered, you very rarely left except for that short walk to the scaffold, I am not surprised she did have some kind of mental collapse, she had not wanted to be involved in the queens meetings with her handsome favourite I'm sure, she knew the dangers it wrought and what the price would be if ever discovered, she had been at court a long time, unlike Catherine Howard who was a lot younger than her and had not her foresight and experience, it must have been dreadful for her when it all came out into the open, Jane was guilty of misprision of treason she knew what the punishment was and Henry V111 was determined to see her pay for deceiving him, the Bill of Attainder I feel was put through so Henry would be spared the ordeal of the trial and have his wife's dissolute past aired in public, he was humiliated and shamed he had thought she was his perfect Jewel of womanhood, and in reality she was no better than a common trollop, his fury was also vent on Jane but there were other ladies who were also involved in the queens deceit so what happened to them? They probably were not as actively involved as Jane was, her illness caused concern for the King but as Claire says, it was only concern that she would not pay for her sins if she was diagnosed as a lunatic by his doctors, the careful nursing she had at the home of the Admiral and his wife saw her condition improve and she gradually recovered so that she was more mentally aware of her position, the bill the King passed through parliament which allowed lunatics to be executed was I think appalling, but Henry at this stage was growing ever more tyrannical, due to the discovery of his wife's unfaithfulness, Mary in her reign repealed that bill which shows unfair she thought it was, it was much credit to her character that she did this, mental illness has been a taboo throughout history, the workings of the brain are not fully understood today and those suffered have been treated appallingly in the past, Victorian padded cells and strait jackets etc, however the other bill, the bill of attainder was repealed due her belief that it was not legal as it had not her father's signature, which I understand, poor Jane when her mind became more lucid would have been aware of her coming death and she must have prayed and resolved to meet it as bravely as her dead husband and sister in law had.
LOL! I am also a Tudor "nutter". We may disagree in our assessment of Anne Boleyn, but I truly love to watch your videos. I've always looked at history as not a dry rendition of dates and events - but a wonderful celebration of the people behind the dates and events.
I and my family hold by the true line. We are Ricardians. Always have been, always will be.
I have been a bit of a closet nutter. I have been obsessed for nearly 30 years, but have kept it to myself a lot. It's only recently I thought to really express it and embrace it. I have been bringing a bag with Anne Boleyn's necklace on, to work with me and it's been positive. I've had a few compliments and ice-breaking conversations. 👍
I feel sorry for Lady Rochford to an extent, but if she really assisted Katherine on secretly meeting Thomas Culpepper then its hard to see how she thought that this would not be a huge risk, especially having been so close to the events of 1536. But it begs the question whether Katherine bribed her, persuaded maybe under some sort of threat. It's a tricky one to really understand what went on here to lead to the violent deaths of Katherine and Jane. I recommend Gareth Russell's book on Katherine (and I know Claire would approve) as it is a fascinating subject. 😊
I think she helped Kathryn as revenge because Henry ruined her and killed her husband. From the letter sent to George Boleyn in the tower I believe she cared about him.
I'm doubtful Jane was actually insane. She was a very clever woman within the court, in the middle of a lot of the intrigue and gossip; not an innocent. I'm sure Jane knew that the mad weren't executed.
I agree , I don't think she was insane , she was cunning ..........to an extent........
Why would she go through all that? She was a grown woman I would never had been part of there scheme,they acted like silly high school girls .
Yes she was a clever woman,bullied and victimized by fat pig henryviii
I highly doubt she would fake that.. I’m sure they wouldn’t of been able to tell if she was putting it on
She was
Does Euctise Chapys (sorry if the spelling is wrong) have a diary of sorts, the ambassador was there during many serious moments, i would like to know his thoughts on the court of Henry VIII.
Keep them coming! 😍❤❤❤❤
I really like Jane [Boleyn] as she was really a strong woman to keep her wits after she was ruined and her sister in law (someone she was close to) aswell as her husband died and I believe retaliate against Henry (when she helped Kathryn cheat). I feel so sorry for her, whether she was actually mad or faking. I'm sure many would have not had the courage to no.1 Write to George Boleyn in the tower and no.2 help Katheryn. Anyhow I love her and I hope our brave Jane rests in peace.
those are some interesting facts about mary l ......makes her more human.............GREAT SHARE..........
Thank you!
I know you didn't do it in this video but, if you recommend someone else's book, it would be great to have the title listed in the description. Thank you!
I usually add a link to the book in the description so that people can find it on Amazon. Sorry if I forget sometimes.
So they could arrest someone, torture them into madness, and then kill them without even a confession. Great, Henry.
There's no evidence that she was tortured, thankfully. It was illegal to torture a woman, although that didn't stop them later with Anne Askew.
The Anne Boleyn Files and Tudor Society who is Anne Askew?
@@jenlynncall She was a Protestant who was tortured and then burned at the stake late in Henry VIII's reign. See www.theanneboleynfiles.com/16-july-1546-execution-anne-askew-singular-example-christian-constancy-men-follow/
@@anneboleynfiles I was thinking of her prolonged interrogations by Cromwell. Many days of him probably asking the same questions over and over, making insinuations, gaslighting, possibly threatening her? He wasn't a very nice man.
Interesting! Henry didn’t want Jane to get out of her punishment....illness was apparently no excuse. Conniving schemer was he!
This lady seemed to court danger, first she was involved with anne and george boleyn who the grim reaper (harry 8) scythed away, then amazingly she served as Catherine Howard's extra marital look out and was scythed away herself as a result. I mean, come on, what on earth was she thinking about!
She was only a lady-in-waiting, so perhaps she was simply doing the queen's bidding. It's hard to know what happened and what pressure she was under, or whether she enjoyed seeing Catherine happy. We just do not know.
@@anneboleynfiles thank you for your reply. Loving the anne Boleyn files, so interesting.
My brother, who has no real interest in Tudor history, has a theory that Lady Rochford might have faked her mental breakdown in hope of avoiding execution. He told me this after we had watched that episode on 'The Tudors' which covers the fall of Katherine Howard. In my personal opinion, she wasn't faking her breakdown. I mean, who wouldn't go insane if they thought they were going to be executed? Just look at the state Katherine Howard was in at the beginning of her imprisonment in Syon, where she was in a state of extreme distress and thought by those around her to be at risk of harming herself. It seems to be the usual case (even with Anne Boleyn), they begin their confinement in a frenzied/distressed state and as their execution gets nearer, they become calmer and much stronger. I admire the courage and strength they manage to build. We, in the modern era, should remember their strength and let it guide us through the challenges we face in life.
Not sure, it's strength... but more of an acceptance of one's fate, and a longing to get it over with.
I love your videos!
It surprises me than Jane would have risked the vast wealth Henry gave her to help his wife commit adultery. It is so illogical.
Even allowing for the passage of time and the changes in thinking this was a horrible thing for the king to do i.e. insist on an execution. Unless she was a direct threat to him he could have just banished her and forbid anyone not a relative from seeing or communicating with her.
Always interesting
🇦🇺🦘 I have always thought that Jane Boleyn, the widow of her executed husband George Boleyn, had been treated unfairly by historians about her life. In relation to THIS matter, yes she was guilty of assisting the then Queen Catherine Howard to 'sleep around'. However, even though Lady Rochford was the older of the two, she would NOT have been in a position to disobey her mistress who was the King's wife.
Jane was "caught between a rock and a hard place". She was not wealthy and needed her job and position at Court to survive. That was the only life she had known, and she had already witnessed the downfall of and death of her husband and sister-in-law (Anne Boleyn). I believe that Jane Boleyn would have been absolutely terrified, knowing what fate awaited her when taken to the tower, and was most likely legitimately 'Mad'! The poor woman. 🔔
Thank you Claire 👑🔔👍
I often wonder how different Tudor history would be if only Queen Catherine had birthed a healthy boy. I truly think Henry would have never divorced her. Whether or not he would have still turned out to be a tyrant is debatable. Although I feel the jousting accident had something to do with his personality change.
He was a tyrant before the accident, he became more of a tyrant afterward.
Good for Mary for overturning the acts of attainder against Catherine Howard and Jane Boleyn ... funny how Mary could be so right on some things and so damned wrong on others.
I can see a possible motive in Jane’s facilitating Katherine’s indiscretion.
From Jane’s perspective , it might have seemed that the King and his ministers had defamed and murdered her husband and her cousin . She was well aware of the danger herself and Katherine risked, but nevertheless threw caution to the wind - for some reason.
I fancy that reason may have been vengeance. Not only would the arrogant brat of a king have had a cheating wife, but his wife’s affair with Colpepper could have produced a royal heir - an heir who could even end up in line for succession (if something happened to Edward VI), who was not of the royal bloodline .
It would have been an incredibly sweet and deep revenge.
Not withstanding that Elizabeth would prove to be a truly great Monarch, I pity Jane for becoming yet another victim of Henry, and that she didn’t live to see her failed plan succeed.
Are there any descendants remaining of the Boleyn family?
zzydny Mary Boleyn’s children have descendants
diana princess of wales and her sons , are among the descendants of anne boleyn.........
@@mizfrenchtwist
Anne Boleyn has no descendants. Elizabeth I was her only surviving child, & she died without issue. 👸
@@h.calvert3165......you're right , elizabeth I did die without issue..........
Mary Boleyn is a distant ancestress of many notables including Winston Churchill, John Davison Rockefeller, P. G. Wodehouse, Elizabeth Bowes-Lyon [the late Queen Mother and therefore the Queen], Diana, Princess of Wales, Sarah, Duchess of York, Charles Darwin and Thomas West, 3rd Baron De La Warr."
So there is still Boleyn blood around. I SAW THIS ON ANOTHER SITE..............
How interesting that Queen Mary l revoked the acts of attainder against Katherine Howard and Jane Boleyn. It just seems to render their deaths that much more ignominious.
I like your videos! I think I might go mad if I was getting ready to be executed! But maybe she was faking it. I am surprised they even gave credence to being insane as barbaric as they were. I’d much rather have been a peasant living in the county in those times.
One thing I'd love to see a video about (not to interrupt the wonderful "on this day..." series) would be an explanation of Katherine Howard's adultery. It seems incredibly foolhardy given Henry's propensity for executing people! So, is there really convincing, impartial evidence that it happened, or could interested parties have wanted to stitch up Katherine? If the evidence does seem convincing, is there any historical documentation that explains why Katherine or Culpepper (or anyone, indeed) would be so reckless of the deadly consequences?
I agree
Katherine was very young and I'm really not sure she thought it through. It is said that Culpepper was a scoundrel and considering Henry was old, fat, in incredible pain and smelled bad from his wound, Culpepper was a nice diversion. Maybe she felt safe thinking that she could manipulate Henry or receive his forgiveness. I guess we'll never know for sure.
I think janes madness was brought on by sheer terror i could only begin to imagine the absolute fearof that nightmarish situation she was in
Personally, I think the sexual abuse Catherine suffered in her childhood affected her mentally. I'm not saying she was crazy, just that she likely had very low self-esteem, combined with a sort of nymphomania. I agree with Pamela Wing that she probably didn't think it through, as well. Also, Henry was old & truly doted on her, so she likely thought she could play & romp & he wouldn't really be paying attention. She didn't calculate on those who were younger, sharper, & had their own axes to grind against the powerful Howards. This has always been my take, anyway. Poor abused girl. 😔
Lust some people love to live on the edge,but I agree why be so stupid?
Her best friend told Jane everything about their lives ,katherine was foolish to hire her friend and the big man that was her fate sealed ,katherine
Didn't owe neither one a job should have had them banned but they threatened her if she didn't I don't know why she was so foolish
Why was Henry VIII' s attacted to cousins ...? Anne Boleyn, Jane Seymour & Katherine Howard were cousins
Remember that there was only a small group at the top. They were pretty much all related to some degree. 🤴 👑 👸
@@h.calvert3165.............yes, you could literally play " connect a dot " with them.............
Andreia Reminiec ...........and remember Margaret madge shelton...... , she was annes cousin as well.........
mizfrenchtwist He was trying to ‘draw’ a prince.
@@pat412pear
GREAT comment! 😂
I still think she is the one that suggested that Anne and George did something inappropriate only because i cant wrap my mind around what anyone would have seen to accuse them it must have been something i do not believe it im on Annes side i just cant understand what was seen
Nope
Not a lot of motivation to get better here.
Hmmmmmmmmmmmm........I realize this is the 1500s but one would good "nuts" if the were sent to The Tower & sentenced to be beheaded lol. Just sayin'. Also, I'm pretty sure Jane had no choice when it came to helping Cathrine have her "secret affairs" bc is she really going to tell her Lady No. I love these times in history but they definitely weren't fair. 😥😥😣😏🙄
Can't help but feel it was a sort of justice. Jane did give evidence against George & Anne, essentially sealing their deaths. This was the 2nd time Jane was involved in the affairs of Henry's wives -Anne & Catherine.
@@steppy3736 This is true. Especially, with George & being her husband. That most have been such a betrayal for him & Anne. I guess @ the end of the day it's a lesson in greed & being caught up in affairs & curoption. I will say that Anne was far from innocent but she & George both were really dealt an unfair hand.
@@steppy3736 By that time though, Ol' Henry was so far gone mentally he was having everyone evacuated.
Jane would have known that she was never coming out of this alive so I can't blame her at all for having a breakdown.
@@anneboleynfiles I agree with you Claire. I really enjoy your Channel & this series especially. Thank you for the reply & for all the work you put into your content. Keeping the Tudors alive is a wonderful thing. 😀😀
I'm a Tudor nutter too lol
So Mary felt compelled to invalidate the attainders of the already beheaded while digging up and burning the already dead at the stake. 💀🔥I guess she wanted to be The Adjudicater Queen 👸 or better yet The Dead Reckoner.
Me Tudor nutter like that
Why would lady rochford put her life in danger she makes me mad kathrine knew better it was wrong for the affair ,Jane was the adult she encouraged
It how shameful,also katherine sealed her fate by hiring her friend to be lady in waiting her big mouth telling the secret about katherine she was part of it to why didn't she get excited also?
She had just as much as rochford but yet she lived? Also sir Francis went to the flop house and found kathrine he made her look so virgin which he misled the king ,Brandon also they all to me had a hand in it.
Katherine should never hired that black mailer as her secretary knowing she would be exposed, also I wonder who blew the whistle on her ,who wrote the note and put in kings chair I wonder?
If you know the answer on these questions I love to know more.
Sincerly,Angelia Frm:Waco Texas USA
Jane Boleyn, Lady Rochford, was a maid of honour, so it was her job to do the queen's bidding, so I'm not sure why she gets the blame. It was reckless for her to go along with it, but perhaps she just wanted to see her mistress happy or she was being pressurised, we don't know, but she can't be blamed for Culpeper and Catherine's affair. Catherine knew what she was doing was wrong.
It was Mary Hall (née Lascelles) who told her brother, John Lascelles, about Catherine's behaviour in the past and it was he who went to the king's privy council with the information. Catherine did not hire Mary as one of her ladies and Mary had nothing to do with Catherine's subsequent behaviour. Mary was a member of the Dowager Duchess of Norfolk's household with Catherine when Catherine was involved with Manox and Dereham.
Dereham had a sexual relationship with Catherine while she was in her stepgrandmother's household. She was not at a "flop house", she was in the household of a dowager duchess, a very important woman. He did nothing to make her look like a virgin. Their relationship fizzled out when he went to Ireland and then Catherine went to court to serve Anne of Cleves as a maid of honour. He was under the assumption that they were betrothed.
Brandon? He had nothing to do with this. Catherine was appointed to serve the new queen. Anne of Cleves, and it was while she was serving her that the king noticed her, just the same as he'd noticed Anne Boleyn when she was serving Catherine of Aragon, and Jane Seymour when she was serving Anne Boleyn. Nobody did anything to influence the king or to push Catherine at him, he was simply very unhappy with Anne of Cleves.
Francis Dereham's appointment as one of Catherine's secretaries was down to the recommendation of the Dowager Duchess of Norfolk, Catherine's stepgrandmother, and there's no evidence that he did anything to blackmail Catherine.
John Lascelles "blew the whistle" after his sister told him about Catherine's sexual past. The privy council then decided that Archbishop Thomas Cranmer should be the one to tell the king. Cranmer couldn't bring himself to tell the king face to face so he put it in a letter. An investigation was then launched and the allegations were found to be true, and then Catherine's meetings with Culpeper also came to light.
Jane Boleyn deserved her execution. She lied when making incest charges against her husband and his sister. Too good for her; she should have been parboiled, dipped in oil, and hung somewhere public. She was a jealous, spiteful wretch. Just because he didn't want to have sex with her (I've never read that anyone did.) didn't mean he had sex with his sister. No one ever believed that.
Anne. Her husband was gay laying with another man ! The Tudor seris word not spelled right but a woman scorned think how she felt knowing he rejected her for a man .
But those chamber maids made a lie on every thing.
@@angeliapittman4776 that is not true maybe do your research
That is not true. Do your research there will research.
@@angeliapittman4776 I know how she felt, jealous and spiteful.
@@joshuaowensjr8694 Yeah, she quoting a TV film,where license was definitely taken, as her source.