Long time fan of your videos Terry! It’s crazy but can buy a Chinese tube practice amp in a cabinet with speaker for under $200. Fact is the guitar amp market is fickle, but guitarists will pay big bucks for amps with provenance and the most traditional craftsmanship and parts. It has to sound and look a certain way to command top dollar. I feel that more complex amps could be more lucrative than simpler ones since non-techs can’t match your know how. And if you can source cool vintage cabinets and keep the vintage look inside and out, it’s more attractive to buyers than ‘updated’ aesthetics. Lyle at Psionic Audio (on RUclips) is a tech and guitarist who is dialed into that market imo and his approach might be of interest.
By making the video, I think you've already come to the realisation and answered your question. Making the occasional amp as a hobby is one thing, but Doing it as a business is another.
One of the Burst Brothers just started making 'Dumble' amps from the old original designs, reborn. Perhaps the 'boutique' as you call it is the place to position your amps. Study price points of the high end stuff, you want to sell your well-engineered and well-built amps to the most high-end customer. Perhaps you need a celebrity endorser, a studio rat from Nashville or high profile nationally recognized guitar star. The other side is, is it your passion to create the best? You do great work, you make great sound happen. That in itself is a rare art. Great wire jockeys are few and far between. Not to mention courage, Terry! It takes a real man to face 120 volts every day!! The amps you have done for me are fabulous sounding units, better than new, though several of the Fenders are many decades old. Your decision is final, but you make great stuff happen. Thanks whatever your future brings! (Still need to bring you that Super Reverb) Thanks again!!
The only way to continue making amps is to utilize a differentiation strategy. What makes your amps different (and unique) from other builders. I joined your channel years ago to watch amp repair since I used to work in the biomedical arena fixing dialysis machines and "tinkered" with fixing amps and guitars. That's why I watch your channel. Keep up the good work! :)
I think part of the problem is that for the last 20 years everybody and their brother has been building boutique guitar tube amps. Seems like the market is a bit saturated. If you were to focus your operation on repair & restoration, that might be a good way to pay some bills with your skills. Here in Virginia, the guy who works on my amps is always backlogged for months! There are still a LOT of people out there playing through tube amps, even if they're not gigging with them. A good amp tech is worth his weight in Gold and is a hard thing to find these days.
Just noticed on several electronics parts distributors websites that I order passive components from, that U.S. customers may have tariffs applied to the cost. Many of these parts are not made in the states. I am just a retired person with electronics as a hobby, and that means more items will be going to the landfill and not being repaired I am afraid.
Nooo! Aside from my heartbreaking at the thought of it, if it is not sustainable then what can you do? I’ve had a Reverb shop (an actual LLC) for over a decade where I bought and sold guitars and related gear weekly, and did so year after year. Unfortunately, that’s not been my experience for some time and have considered dissolving the business.
I've been building amps out of scraps and salvage that I find on marketplace and Craigslist. Usually only costs me a few bucks to make an amp. Maybe not a sustainable business, but a good hobby.
It was pretty lucrative doing vintage combo amps a few years ago. I have amp heads on Reverb that have sat for a year that would have sold quickly a few years ago. The shipping for tolex makes it not worth it to me now so I went to marine vinyl, but that doesn't work for a vintage look. However there's ways to cut costs-Weber bargain chassis, Zach Hunter chassis on ebay and sales at CE Dist. Making your own cab saves a ton. Some buyers have a stash of tubes so I have been able to sell without tubes which helps. Great Vids D-Lab!
I use to build high end high power Stereo HiFi amps with 813 in push pull output. I had all my power transformers custom made in New Jersey and my output transformers made in New Mexico. All tube no diodes I used 6au4 tubes for power supply. I had over $3000 in parts plus may hours of labor. I sold a lot all over the world. Then shipping prices go crazy price of transformers went craxy..So I jus quit it was no longer worth it. I Still have two amps left. One is my personal amplifier that I use on a daily badis. The other one is boxed JP in my atic. Once in a while I get asked if I have any amps left. I let them see my amp they say the would like one. Then they ask the price . The they wanted for far less than the parts cost. So I quit. Hope you have better luck. 73
My suggestion would be to continue to design and sell completed circuit boards for different types of amp models, fenders, Marshall, Mesa etc. This is always a big challenge for anyone doing thier own build.
I would say it depends on whether you are targeting hobbyists vs rich guitarists. As a hobbyist, it's only worth it if you can source cheap transformers & tubes from HAM swap meets & scrounging, or obtaining them from China. However, for those who can afford the expense, and are willing to pay, building hand-wired tube amps using top-quality parts is still worthwhile. The average working guitarist would be better served if he just bought a mass-produced PCB (e.g. Marshall) amp.
Maybe an idea, is to try asking large sums for the custom made amplifiers, like maybe somewhere up to 2-3K dollars. Seems counter intuitional, but what I've read, psychology sometimes works in certain strange ways. If it costs a bunch, and can back it up with the panache of top level hand crafted performance and quality, it possibly creates a certain cache as a rare, better, exclusive and exquisite audiophile piece, and a demand among those who can afford it perceive as the best.
I agree with you that building hand-wired boutique tube amps is a tough business. Rehabbing and modding old tube amps was profitable since the parts are all mostly there so your overhead is much lower. I remember buying great tube amps with tubes at flea markets and swap meets for $10-15. Those were the days! Now everyone is looking for that stuff and prices are no longer reasonable. Also - modded amps are no longer so novel and there's more competition in the space. Building custom - from scratch - one at a time means you're paying for every part without the benefit of a volume discount like a manufacturer would be able to negotiate. You have to pass that cost to buyer, and that means your product price is comparatively higher. Guitar pedals are a similar deal - such a competitive space. I remember when AnalogMan would go to guitar shows with a suitcase full of one-off pedals he had cooked up. Then came hundreds of other builders. How many can the market sustain? I've always enjoyed learning from your videos and wish you the best whatever you decide.
You might shift gears,I'd like to buy. Some of your boards, I have over 20 amps chassis test equipment. All kinds thought I'd make some stuff but Never finish After the COVID tube prices skyrocket as did nos transformers. I bought a crap load of f t caps all just to sit. Anyway. Don't forget to clutch before shifting gears
Terry, i learned how to repair, mod And service Tube amps through your advice And inspiration. I Even got ham radio back on focus And did the exam. Thanks for that. Building custom handmade Tube amps as a business is impossible imo. 73
Time marches on! We’re still making buggy whips in the era of the cyber car! (I include myself in that! Hi!). Enjoy what you’re doing as a hobby, but know there’s no money in any of this nostalgia. Old hams, old musicians… not that many of us left. Maybe you should try repairing/restoring pre 2009 NTSC TV’s! (TIC ;-)
Hi Terry, It's a hard thing to rationalize. Components are so expensive nowadays and the people who buy boutique amps want to hear familiar names. I never got too far away from modifying little amps of all sorts into guitar amps. The custom market is being swallowed up bit by bit by new DSP technology. My next project's donor amp is from a Newcomb R>R. A single ended EL84. The good part is it had multiple preamps so the PT can handle whatever I want to throw at it on the front end. It came from a school auction in mint condition. It had 3 Mullard 12AX7's Tung-Sol el84. 6X4 rectifier in it. I bought it for about $30. That's my kind of 'kit amp' I hope to catch you on AM again sometime. 73 de WO7K
I would like to see your components available forever. I build my own with your boards and it is worth it to me. As far as build completes to sell, I do notice some locals in in my are with little to no success for clones. BUT! it's better than spending 4k on a hand wired amp.
Time to shift gears. Your accounting tells the story. Each year shipping is going up more than inflation also. You can't ship a single capacitor within the USA for less than about $5 but you can get free shipping from aliX with a $10 order... You also have no economy of scale, and the vendors are not interested in one off sales in the USA (hence lack of quality parts.) I did small prototypes at the same time I worked for a fortune 100 aerospace company. I couldn't get my questions answered or one off parts in my prototype work, but call from the "big" company and a field engineer with copious samples were at my desk in a day... we are scr_wed anymore. Should be a repair, refurb and upgrade niche in your area. Friend did it, but needed two guitar shops to funnel work to him.
Is more likely how you sell and market that needs updating, partner with stores maybe to have them there, sell kits of your own and make the tuition for the how to class be the new stream, or make a more classic looking amp and go for the deluxe reverb market and charge a lot, but the bar is too low for this in terms of how to do this (with RUclips's help). However, this was a bad business idea from the start unless you yourself loved it, that passion is what mattered then and now still. Part of genius is knowing when you're done or when you have a thing to do. Sometimes have to step back and get new perspective. We are just post Clovis guitar gear bust part of the cycle, but it is a cycle, and we are one new artist away from everyone wanting some old amp the new guy makes famous, so if you love it, hang in and ask more people to buy while you get through the low spot, more waves coming on the horizon. If you hate it paddle in.
Terry, I love your channel, as far as building boutique amps, maybe you should offer higher end versions, coppies of old fender designs seem to sell. More Fender blackface stuff,with your own twist added and charge accordingly for sure. Ive seen your stuff on Reverb, a demo from a guitar player that is really good helps for sure, in the end its your call, you know how much you make or dont. It is a tough market nowadays.
well Terry can you make nice tube front ends for recording or PA interfaces for a reasonable price? itd need a tube pre and a line out instead of a speaker out. other people are doing this already. IMO guitarists will always want a tube front end and then they can send it to whatever they want. if its got a lowZ balanced output, it would plug right into a recording interface or stage snake. guitars and 12AX7s! its the power amp part that the need changed for.
While I've greatly benefited, learned and enjoyed your amp build videos, its time to shift gears. You can't do it just for the love of it any more. Sadly, it isn't fair if it costs you to do it. I'll keep watching your videos just for the education as long as you post them (although I do miss the old "Tube Amp Theater" and the Cobbler)
Do you know something? You may be absolutely right in the calculations you refer to if the matter is resolved anywhere in the world other than in your workshop. But the result will NEVER be the same as what you achieve. Of that I am absolutely sure. However, I understand your sincerity in presenting your question. I can only tell you that there have also been many times when I have reached the same conclusion that you mentioned. But I continue to do what I think should be done to keep the tradition alive. In other words, I will continue to do exactly what I was doing until my soldering iron refuses to work in that direction. Greetings from Portugal. Macedo Pinto
Unfortunately the new generation preffer solid state stuff with loads of effects built in. I have had valve amps in for repair and many times the guy says its old so if its gonna cost loads just scrap it. Heart breaking.
You need to change it up. 1. Build for orders, not just because. 2. Find less expensive ways to manufacture, or partner with others who specialize is areas that you can't compete in. 3. Add a professional looking case to add value to the project.
I think it’s a reflection of the current economy. I’m sure it will eventually change. You could always go back to doing repairs. You could try making guitar pedals. You could try modding small amps with tone stacks. I built a 5F1 with a twin reverb tone stack and that turned out really nice. It would be cool if you could figure out how to do an effect loop on a reverb or delay pedal.
People have the money for $20K vacations, 3000 sq ft homes, $100 meals for 4 dining out, $40-90K vehicles, etc. If it's not something people can show off to their neighbors, friends, coworkers you probably won't be selling much anymore. Hope they like Trumpenomics.
Probably should not. Does not look like you can make a profit from those anymore. Have you thought about, and priced the cost of making something similar, using transistors? That might be cheaper.
nobody needs a boutique amp but if they want one, they want it to be worth something. They want name recognition and that's all they are willing to pay for. Maybe if you could get John Mayer playing D-Lab.
I scooped one of the grommes little jewel for 300bucks. Has been converted for guitar and came with a sweet handmade pine cab. I Want to add a few mods. Maybe a switch to ss rectifier and negative feedback. Anything else?
I have been under the impression for some time now that building tube amps is really more of a hobby than a business. People do it because they enjoy it, not because they need to do it to pay the bills. I can totally understand deciding to no longer build amps if you're not seeing profits. However, if you get your kicks out of the process of building them more as a hobby, that's where the value is.
Maybe you might want to look at some higher powered Class A designs say around 7-8 watts or more, add a master volume and a trem circuit. Sure, it will add to the cost but in the range you're at right now you're competing with practice amp heads that are solid state and meant just for that, practice. A Vox amPlug 3 Boutique headphone guitar amp is only 50 bucks, an Orange Micro is 150, tough bracket to live in. A higher end, higher power Class A with a few extras thrown in aimed at a someone looking to step up to solid tone valve amp but avoid the price of a THD BiValve 30 might be the sweet spot. Other than that doing a professional assembly like you do of a Mojotone Blackface Vibro-Champ might be a choice but what fun would that be and I wouldn't learn anything.
It’s hard to say man… I 100% know you’re right. You know I’ve been doing the pedal thing and I’m anticipating a hard slap in the face as tariff’s arrive. I was thinking about the amp I have in limbo at your place now and how I should probably step down to a 2 6V6 because it seems like 2 6L6’s is just too much for clubs these days. As somebody else stated the amp sim thing is killing off tube amps. But to me they mostly sound terrible. And you kinda need an advanced monitor system to truly make it work. So tube amps are t dead but they sure are on life support.
I think you should spend your time now repairing / restoring tube amp gear / amateur radio equipment . . . you seem to enjoy this better than building stuff. . . also you have made some great mods to equipment using your 'pc board' layouts which is a great thing . . .
The way the market has gone, I would move on to other more profitable ventures. You can always return to guitar amp building should the market turn around.
It is sad that actually making music with your hands/body is becoming a lost art, so the demand for the tools is low. Hopefully the cycle will come back around to analog art 😢.
I've noticed a lot of music gear, my stuff included, isn't selling. A lot of it is probably because of the economy and overall uncertainty in where we're headed as a country. Gear is a want, not a need, and unfortunatley right now people are probably being more cautious. It also seems like it's not worth it as a hobby anymore either because parts have increased in price so much, I'd almost rather find a builder than spend the time and money doing it myself because I don't have as much knowledge as other techs.
Terry, as a musician, I can tell you that many guitarists no longer use amps on stage. Most are using DI pedalboards which has all the modeling. Now, with that said, tube amps always sound better... so the target audience is for studio recording. Additionally I do not see alot of 18 year olds buying guitars and amps these days. I also see HIGH END STEREO equipment making a comeback... its a hard call
Boutique amps are for the player who has the money & desire for something particular or just unique to them. I'm still running through my 1970ties Fender and Gibson PA, which I brought in high school. HAVE one multi effects solid state Creat that I hate. The crowd has gone to modeling amps and plugging into the house PA. Cheap an eazy. I see tube and solid state amps as a thing of the past. The money will probably be in repairing and moding vintages tube amps because 10% of us will always use them and because techs are getting scarce. Like vinal eight tracks and cassettes. If I was a tech and I'm not, I think I would do custom moding multi band emergency radios. Apocalypse preparing and communications are big on the spenders list. Scared people will find the money for upgraded and encrypted communications. Maybe purchase some handhelds, increase the output antennas encrypted them, and 5x the price out the door.
This may not go down well, but how is it true that "tube amps always sound better"? Sure, they produce a characteristic clean & overdriven tone, but "better" is subjective, and depends on what the player is after. They may not want distortion, for example (itself an indicator of poor amplifier performance, no matter how "good" it sounds), or find the poor signal-to-noise ratio, higher hiss & hum levels, microphonics, weight, and high cost of replacement tubes & repairs to be an issue. I enjoy some tube amp tones, and I find the technology interesting, but these days, for the reasons above, I believe they're not really worth it anymore 🤷🏻♂️
I wouldn't stop permanently but instead, take a pause. On the supply side, Yourre is fighting Russian sanctions ( tube supplies), tariffs on parts from China, shortages of parts from Europe, and high fuel costs (shipping). On the demand side: High inflation to the point it is problematic for folks to even put food on the table, and a glut in the guitar-related market. This was mostly due to everyone and their brother buying guitars during COVID-19. All that gear has saturated the market now that interest has dropped. Things will slowly get better in 2025. Fuel prices will fall, supply chain issues will stabilize, and some tariffs will disappear. This should cause inflation to drop, putting more money in people's pockets so they can shift from serving to living again. Living means having fun and picking up hobbies again, like playing your guitar, doing gigs, etc. This is just my option, so take it for what it is worth.
Ebb and flow man. I had an amp that took 6 months to sell. It does seem to be slowing down due to the economy and all. Tariffs aren't going to help either.
Unfortunately, I must use an amp simulator for all live performances. I prefer to use an amp, but all others including front of house love the convenience of simulators. So, my amps sit at home. That said, I’m not lugging around amps anymore which is good for the back.
For sourcing out all new parts, not worth it. For scoring Ham Fair parts, used & new, it may be worth it, but you have to have the market ready to buy. I might suggest building as the customer wants with at least 50% down, non refundable. I learned that lesson the hard way. I would get enough down to at least cover the cost of parts in advance.
High end customers is where it is at. Can you out-Dumble Dumble? Might be more work then it is worth. Is there room in your life for a 2 day "How to build a tube amp" class?
If they're not selling, that's your answer. Is it's still a practice amp or something for gigging? I don't think that price point is going to support a lower end amp like a practice amp.
I'd say, shift gears. These times are gone, boomers are a vanishing target, young ones are well suplied by China and new tech with or without tubes - and any retro wave won't reach high sales within the necessary price range. I'd considering repairs from boomer to boomer plus a small percentage of nostalgic younger ones. May keep you going, idk. Like Dylan had sung, times they are a'changing, one of his best songs imho - people often forget, that this isn't stopping.
I wouldn’t stop completely. I would price it exactly what it needs to be and let it sit on reverb, and don’t make another until it moves. And do other stuff in the meantime.
You can not be running a deficit for the sole purpose of making videos that don't cover the cost that is for sure, It was a fantastic idea while it lasted, Buying up old radios and tube equipment with power transformers, tubes... in it and only missing an OT transformer, but even then, people are now selling old non working radios for the price of an ounce of gold. We all would hate to see you stop making these fun little amps, but i think most of us understands.
My brother wants me to build a Marshall 50 watt replica (2204). because he wants the sound of mine which is incredible. I have spent years and research getting that sound of which will never happen with stock circuit. he asked the cost. I said it would likley be $1200 in parts. that is not including my time. My price would be $2000. no one will pay that for a replica even though it would be a better amp than an original. That is where it is.
It's like building a hot rod car. If you just do it for a hobby or the learning experience. Then fine. But if you ever expect to get your money back out of it, chances are you're never gonna see it.
I quit making amplifiers a year ago because it's just not worth it anymore. Nobody wants to pay what it costs to build them with new parts, and old parts are inconsistent and don't always end up sounding decent.
If your channel was generating more income, I'd say; keep doing them just for content and sell at break-even. I doubt RUclips is generating that kind of income so...repairing other people's rigs it is!
Not worth it. Better keep repairing and taking on projects. I contacted for a project last year 1/8/24 and you were back logged. Are you taking on projects at the moment ?
If the tariffs are implemented as announced, the cost of food, energy, lumber, clothing, vehicles will make the cost of electronic parts the least of our worries.
Brainstorm. We could look at history and see many the millionaire who sat down and asked themselves that same question when they were bankrupt or starving. Often times they didn't just switch gears, they switched transmissions altogether-so to speak.
The cost of Tubes today is far too high. Because of the War in Ukraine, Russia has major Tariffs on its Valve production. This factor makes amp manufacture very expensive.
Take emotion out of the equation, examine only the economic facts you presented, and I would say it does not make sense. The market has spoken. Adding tariffs on top of post-pandemic inflation will only make it worse. Hard times ahead for hobbyists and small business.
During and right after Covid, you gave us low cost options for tubes, and even transformers. Maybe more of that. For those of us that have lost loved ones to unchecked drug trafficking over the last decade, riding this out while we pressure our neighbors to the north and south to get involved, is something I’m willing to endure. I’ve attended too many funerals, including my own daughter, because of this. The tariffs on Hammond transformers (Canada) are acceptable to me, in order to get Trudeau off his butt and into this fight.
lol..I would save my money..y'all will be payin more for everything...your market will bottom out ..New Black Monday for Merica....y'all broke a Trade deal with Canada/Mexico..try selling U.S. in Canada...lol..Mexico might respond different...lol
I don't watch the HAM radio videos, sorry, but I'm not interested. If you stop making videos of repairing guitar amplifiers I'm going to stop watching all of your videos.
@@d-labelectronics Please do not take offense to my comment. I barely comprehend the work you do with the guitars amps, and I am a guitar player! Although its interesting,I am totally lost when it comes to radios. I simply just can’t follow and comprehend it! Please don’t stop making amp repair videos! I have learned some things from them. I do understand if you decide not to build and sell guitar amps though. I can see the high prices on everything not making it worth your time. I am still subscribed! I have lots of videos in your catalog I have not seen yet! Thank you for sharing your knowledge. I appreciate you very much!
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
Long time fan of your videos Terry! It’s crazy but can buy a Chinese tube practice amp in a cabinet with speaker for under $200. Fact is the guitar amp market is fickle, but guitarists will pay big bucks for amps with provenance and the most traditional craftsmanship and parts. It has to sound and look a certain way to command top dollar. I feel that more complex amps could be more lucrative than simpler ones since non-techs can’t match your know how. And if you can source cool vintage cabinets and keep the vintage look inside and out, it’s more attractive to buyers than ‘updated’ aesthetics. Lyle at Psionic Audio (on RUclips) is a tech and guitarist who is dialed into that market imo and his approach might be of interest.
By making the video, I think you've already come to the realisation and answered your question.
Making the occasional amp as a hobby is one thing, but Doing it as a business is another.
One of the Burst Brothers just started making 'Dumble' amps from the old original designs, reborn. Perhaps the 'boutique' as you call it is the place to position your amps. Study price points of the high end stuff, you want to sell your well-engineered and well-built amps to the most high-end customer. Perhaps you need a celebrity endorser, a studio rat from Nashville or high profile nationally recognized guitar star. The other side is, is it your passion to create the best? You do great work, you make great sound happen. That in itself is a rare art. Great wire jockeys are few and far between. Not to mention courage, Terry! It takes a real man to face 120 volts every day!! The amps you have done for me are fabulous sounding units, better than new, though several of the Fenders are many decades old. Your decision is final, but you make great stuff happen. Thanks whatever your future brings! (Still need to bring you that Super Reverb) Thanks again!!
The only way to continue making amps is to utilize a differentiation strategy. What makes your amps different (and unique) from other builders. I joined your channel years ago to watch amp repair since I used to work in the biomedical arena fixing dialysis machines and "tinkered" with fixing amps and guitars. That's why I watch your channel. Keep up the good work! :)
Terry!
Your videos are priceless!!
You have built yourself a legacy now. Go do what is best for you, we will still follow you!!!
I think part of the problem is that for the last 20 years everybody and their brother has been building boutique guitar tube amps. Seems like the market is a bit saturated. If you were to focus your operation on repair & restoration, that might be a good way to pay some bills with your skills. Here in Virginia, the guy who works on my amps is always backlogged for months! There are still a LOT of people out there playing through tube amps, even if they're not gigging with them. A good amp tech is worth his weight in Gold and is a hard thing to find these days.
Just noticed on several electronics parts distributors websites that I order passive components from, that U.S. customers may have tariffs applied to the cost.
Many of these parts are not made in the states. I am just a retired person with electronics as a hobby, and that means more items will be going to the landfill and not being repaired I am afraid.
Nooo! Aside from my heartbreaking at the thought of it, if it is not sustainable then what can you do? I’ve had a Reverb shop (an actual LLC) for over a decade where I bought and sold guitars and related gear weekly, and did so year after year.
Unfortunately, that’s not been my experience for some time and have considered dissolving the business.
I've been building amps out of scraps and salvage that I find on marketplace and Craigslist. Usually only costs me a few bucks to make an amp. Maybe not a sustainable business, but a good hobby.
It was pretty lucrative doing vintage combo amps a few years ago. I have amp heads on Reverb that have sat for a year that would have sold quickly a few years ago. The shipping for tolex makes it not worth it to me now so I went to marine vinyl, but that doesn't work for a vintage look. However there's ways to cut costs-Weber bargain chassis, Zach Hunter chassis on ebay and sales at CE Dist. Making your own cab saves a ton. Some buyers have a stash of tubes so I have been able to sell without tubes which helps. Great Vids D-Lab!
I use to build high end high power Stereo HiFi amps with 813 in push pull output. I had all my power transformers custom made in New Jersey and my output transformers made in New Mexico. All tube no diodes I used 6au4 tubes for power supply. I had over $3000 in parts plus may hours of labor. I sold a lot all over the world. Then shipping prices go crazy price of transformers went craxy..So I jus quit it was no longer worth it. I Still have two amps left. One is my personal amplifier that I use on a daily badis. The other one is boxed JP in my atic. Once in a while I get asked if I have any amps left. I let them see my amp they say the would like one. Then they ask the price . The they wanted for far less than the parts cost. So I quit. Hope you have better luck. 73
Your work will come full circle as it always does and be appreciated after you’re gone buddy. Natural overdrive cannot be beat.
My suggestion would be to continue to design and sell completed circuit boards for different types of amp models, fenders, Marshall, Mesa etc. This is always a big challenge for anyone doing thier own build.
I would say it depends on whether you are targeting hobbyists vs rich guitarists.
As a hobbyist, it's only worth it if you can source cheap transformers & tubes from HAM swap meets & scrounging, or obtaining them from China.
However, for those who can afford the expense, and are willing to pay, building hand-wired tube amps using top-quality parts is still worthwhile.
The average working guitarist would be better served if he just bought a mass-produced PCB (e.g. Marshall) amp.
Maybe an idea, is to try asking large sums for the custom made amplifiers, like maybe somewhere up to 2-3K dollars. Seems counter intuitional, but what I've read, psychology sometimes works in certain strange ways. If it costs a bunch, and can back it up with the panache of top level hand crafted performance and quality, it possibly creates a certain cache as a rare, better, exclusive and exquisite audiophile piece, and a demand among those who can afford it perceive as the best.
Also, i would like to learn more about the wine you drink and why you select them.
I enjoy all your videos and will your amp builds, but I will continue to watch your video. Thank you for all you have taught me .
I agree with you that building hand-wired boutique tube amps is a tough business. Rehabbing and modding old tube amps was profitable since the parts are all mostly there so your overhead is much lower. I remember buying great tube amps with tubes at flea markets and swap meets for $10-15. Those were the days! Now everyone is looking for that stuff and prices are no longer reasonable. Also - modded amps are no longer so novel and there's more competition in the space.
Building custom - from scratch - one at a time means you're paying for every part without the benefit of a volume discount like a manufacturer would be able to negotiate. You have to pass that cost to buyer, and that means your product price is comparatively higher.
Guitar pedals are a similar deal - such a competitive space. I remember when AnalogMan would go to guitar shows with a suitcase full of one-off pedals he had cooked up. Then came hundreds of other builders. How many can the market sustain?
I've always enjoyed learning from your videos and wish you the best whatever you decide.
You might shift gears,I'd like to buy. Some of your boards, I have over 20 amps chassis test equipment. All kinds thought I'd make some stuff but Never finish After the COVID tube prices skyrocket as did nos transformers. I bought a crap load of f t caps all just to sit. Anyway. Don't forget to clutch before shifting gears
Terry, i learned how to repair, mod And service Tube amps through your advice And inspiration. I Even got ham radio back on focus And did the exam. Thanks for that. Building custom handmade Tube amps as a business is impossible imo. 73
Time marches on! We’re still making buggy whips in the era of the cyber car! (I include myself in that! Hi!). Enjoy what you’re doing as a hobby, but know there’s no money in any of this nostalgia. Old hams, old musicians… not that many of us left. Maybe you should try repairing/restoring pre 2009 NTSC TV’s! (TIC ;-)
Hi Terry, It's a hard thing to rationalize. Components are so expensive nowadays and the people who buy boutique amps want to hear familiar names. I never got too far away from modifying little amps of all sorts into guitar amps. The custom market is being swallowed up bit by bit by new DSP technology. My next project's donor amp is from a Newcomb R>R. A single ended EL84. The good part is it had multiple preamps so the PT can handle whatever I want to throw at it on the front end. It came from a school auction in mint condition. It had 3 Mullard 12AX7's Tung-Sol el84. 6X4 rectifier in it. I bought it for about $30. That's my kind of 'kit amp' I hope to catch you on AM again sometime. 73 de WO7K
I would like to see your components available forever. I build my own with your boards and it is worth it to me. As far as build completes to sell, I do notice some locals in in my are with little to no success for clones. BUT! it's better than spending 4k on a hand wired amp.
Time to shift gears. Your accounting tells the story. Each year shipping is going up more than inflation also. You can't ship a single capacitor within the USA for less than about $5 but you can get free shipping from aliX with a $10 order... You also have no economy of scale, and the vendors are not interested in one off sales in the USA (hence lack of quality parts.)
I did small prototypes at the same time I worked for a fortune 100 aerospace company. I couldn't get my questions answered or one off parts in my prototype work, but call from the "big" company and a field engineer with copious samples were at my desk in a day... we are scr_wed anymore.
Should be a repair, refurb and upgrade niche in your area. Friend did it, but needed two guitar shops to funnel work to him.
Is more likely how you sell and market that needs updating, partner with stores maybe to have them there, sell kits of your own and make the tuition for the how to class be the new stream, or make a more classic looking amp and go for the deluxe reverb market and charge a lot, but the bar is too low for this in terms of how to do this (with RUclips's help). However, this was a bad business idea from the start unless you yourself loved it, that passion is what mattered then and now still. Part of genius is knowing when you're done or when you have a thing to do. Sometimes have to step back and get new perspective. We are just post Clovis guitar gear bust part of the cycle, but it is a cycle, and we are one new artist away from everyone wanting some old amp the new guy makes famous, so if you love it, hang in and ask more people to buy while you get through the low spot, more waves coming on the horizon. If you hate it paddle in.
Terry, I love your channel, as far as building boutique amps, maybe you should offer higher end versions, coppies of old fender designs seem to sell. More Fender blackface stuff,with your own twist added and charge accordingly for sure. Ive seen your stuff on Reverb, a demo from a guitar player that is really good helps for sure, in the end its your call, you know how much you make or dont. It is a tough market nowadays.
well Terry can you make nice tube front ends for recording or PA interfaces for a reasonable price? itd need a tube pre and a line out instead of a speaker out. other people are doing this already. IMO guitarists will always want a tube front end and then they can send it to whatever they want. if its got a lowZ balanced output, it would plug right into a recording interface or stage snake. guitars and 12AX7s! its the power amp part that the need changed for.
While I've greatly benefited, learned and enjoyed your amp build videos, its time to shift gears. You can't do it just for the love of it any more. Sadly, it isn't fair if it costs you to do it. I'll keep watching your videos just for the education as long as you post them (although I do miss the old "Tube Amp Theater" and the Cobbler)
Do you know something? You may be absolutely right in the calculations you refer to if the matter is resolved anywhere in the world other than in your workshop. But the result will NEVER be the same as what you achieve. Of that I am absolutely sure.
However, I understand your sincerity in presenting your question. I can only tell you that there have also been many times when I have reached the same conclusion that you mentioned. But I continue to do what I think should be done to keep the tradition alive. In other words, I will continue to do exactly what I was doing until my soldering iron refuses to work in that direction.
Greetings from Portugal.
Macedo Pinto
Unfortunately the new generation preffer solid state stuff with loads of effects built in. I have had valve amps in for repair and many times the guy says its old so if its gonna cost loads just scrap it. Heart breaking.
You need to change it up.
1. Build for orders, not just because.
2. Find less expensive ways to manufacture, or partner with others who specialize is areas that you can't compete in.
3. Add a professional looking case to add value to the project.
Terri, I'm sorry to here about your challenges. I love my d-lab single 6k6 amp, it kicks a$$!
For the knowledge you given us..i say absolutely yes
I think it’s a reflection of the current economy. I’m sure it will eventually change. You could always go back to doing repairs. You could try making guitar pedals. You could try modding small amps with tone stacks. I built a 5F1 with a twin reverb tone stack and that turned out really nice. It would be cool if you could figure out how to do an effect loop on a reverb or delay pedal.
People have the money for $20K vacations, 3000 sq ft homes, $100 meals for 4 dining out, $40-90K vehicles, etc. If it's not something people can show off to their neighbors, friends, coworkers you probably won't be selling much anymore. Hope they like Trumpenomics.
Shift gears Terry. Do what brings you the most enjoyment.
Probably should not. Does not look like you can make a profit from those anymore.
Have you thought about, and priced the cost of making something similar, using transistors?
That might be cheaper.
nobody needs a boutique amp but if they want one, they want it to be worth something. They want name recognition and that's all they are willing to pay for. Maybe if you could get John Mayer playing D-Lab.
I scooped one of the grommes little jewel for 300bucks. Has been converted for guitar and came with a sweet handmade pine cab. I Want to add a few mods. Maybe a switch to ss rectifier and negative feedback. Anything else?
I have been under the impression for some time now that building tube amps is really more of a hobby than a business. People do it because they enjoy it, not because they need to do it to pay the bills. I can totally understand deciding to no longer build amps if you're not seeing profits. However, if you get your kicks out of the process of building them more as a hobby, that's where the value is.
Maybe just put together a kit.
Sounds like time to tone it back. Naybe have board designs that you sell and orovide parts lists fir DIYers
Maybe you might want to look at some higher powered Class A designs say around 7-8 watts or more, add a master volume and a trem circuit. Sure, it will add to the cost but in the range you're at right now you're competing with practice amp heads that are solid state and meant just for that, practice. A Vox amPlug 3 Boutique headphone guitar amp is only 50 bucks, an Orange Micro is 150, tough bracket to live in. A higher end, higher power Class A with a few extras thrown in aimed at a someone looking to step up to solid tone valve amp but avoid the price of a THD BiValve 30 might be the sweet spot. Other than that doing a professional assembly like you do of a Mojotone Blackface Vibro-Champ might be a choice but what fun would that be and I wouldn't learn anything.
It’s hard to say man… I 100% know you’re right. You know I’ve been doing the pedal thing and I’m anticipating a hard slap in the face as tariff’s arrive. I was thinking about the amp I have in limbo at your place now and how I should probably step down to a 2 6V6 because it seems like 2 6L6’s is just too much for clubs these days. As somebody else stated the amp sim thing is killing off tube amps. But to me they mostly sound terrible. And you kinda need an advanced monitor system to truly make it work. So tube amps are t dead but they sure are on life support.
Like you i have enjoyed making amps and as you say bits have become to expensive so time to move on .
So many people are selling boutique amps these days. Unless you have a good marketing department it's tough to survive.
I think you should spend your time now repairing / restoring tube amp gear / amateur radio equipment . . . you seem to enjoy this better than building stuff. . . also you have made some great mods to equipment using your 'pc board' layouts which is a great thing . . .
Thank you Sir, Yes, I am planning on doing more Ham related repairs
The way the market has gone, I would move on to other more profitable ventures. You can always return to guitar amp building should the market turn around.
It is sad that actually making music with your hands/body is becoming a lost art, so the demand for the tools is low. Hopefully the cycle will come back around to analog art 😢.
I've noticed a lot of music gear, my stuff included, isn't selling. A lot of it is probably because of the economy and overall uncertainty in where we're headed as a country. Gear is a want, not a need, and unfortunatley right now people are probably being more cautious. It also seems like it's not worth it as a hobby anymore either because parts have increased in price so much, I'd almost rather find a builder than spend the time and money doing it myself because I don't have as much knowledge as other techs.
Terry, as a musician, I can tell you that many guitarists no longer use amps on stage. Most are using DI pedalboards which has all the modeling. Now, with that said, tube amps always sound better... so the target audience is for studio recording. Additionally I do not see alot of 18 year olds buying guitars and amps these days. I also see HIGH END STEREO equipment making a comeback... its a hard call
Boutique amps are for the player who has the money & desire for something particular or just unique to them. I'm still running through my 1970ties Fender and Gibson PA, which I brought in high school. HAVE one multi effects solid state Creat that I hate. The crowd has gone to modeling amps and plugging into the house PA. Cheap an eazy. I see tube and solid state amps as a thing of the past. The money will probably be in repairing and moding vintages tube amps because 10% of us will always use them and because techs are getting scarce. Like vinal eight tracks and cassettes. If I was a tech and I'm not, I think I would do custom moding multi band emergency radios. Apocalypse preparing and communications are big on the spenders list. Scared people will find the money for upgraded and encrypted communications. Maybe purchase some handhelds, increase the output antennas encrypted them, and 5x the price out the door.
This may not go down well, but how is it true that "tube amps always sound better"? Sure, they produce a characteristic clean & overdriven tone, but "better" is subjective, and depends on what the player is after. They may not want distortion, for example (itself an indicator of poor amplifier performance, no matter how "good" it sounds), or find the poor signal-to-noise ratio, higher hiss & hum levels, microphonics, weight, and high cost of replacement tubes & repairs to be an issue.
I enjoy some tube amp tones, and I find the technology interesting, but these days, for the reasons above, I believe they're not really worth it anymore 🤷🏻♂️
I wouldn't stop permanently but instead, take a pause. On the supply side, Yourre is fighting Russian sanctions ( tube supplies), tariffs on parts from China, shortages of parts from Europe, and high fuel costs (shipping). On the demand side: High inflation to the point it is problematic for folks to even put food on the table, and a glut in the guitar-related market. This was mostly due to everyone and their brother buying guitars during COVID-19. All that gear has saturated the market now that interest has dropped. Things will slowly get better in 2025. Fuel prices will fall, supply chain issues will stabilize, and some tariffs will disappear. This should cause inflation to drop, putting more money in people's pockets so they can shift from serving to living again. Living means having fun and picking up hobbies again, like playing your guitar, doing gigs, etc. This is just my option, so take it for what it is worth.
Ebb and flow man. I had an amp that took 6 months to sell. It does seem to be slowing down due to the economy and all. Tariffs aren't going to help either.
Unfortunately, I must use an amp simulator for all live performances. I prefer to use an amp, but all others including front of house love the convenience of simulators. So, my amps sit at home. That said, I’m not lugging around amps anymore which is good for the back.
For sourcing out all new parts, not worth it. For scoring Ham Fair parts, used & new, it may be worth it, but you have to have the market ready to buy. I might suggest building as the customer wants with at least 50% down, non refundable. I learned that lesson the hard way. I would get enough down to at least cover the cost of parts in advance.
High end customers is where it is at. Can you out-Dumble Dumble? Might be more work then it is worth. Is there room in your life for a 2 day "How to build a tube amp" class?
Yes it is, as builds for yourself, or as a build to order. As a profit center, not so much
If they're not selling, that's your answer. Is it's still a practice amp or something for gigging? I don't think that price point is going to support a lower end amp like a practice amp.
I'd say, shift gears. These times are gone, boomers are a vanishing target, young ones are well suplied by China and new tech with or without tubes - and any retro wave won't reach high sales within the necessary price range.
I'd considering repairs from boomer to boomer plus a small percentage of nostalgic younger ones. May keep you going, idk.
Like Dylan had sung, times they are a'changing, one of his best songs imho - people often forget, that this isn't stopping.
I wouldn’t stop completely. I would price it exactly what it needs to be and let it sit on reverb, and don’t make another until it moves. And do other stuff in the meantime.
You can not be running a deficit for the sole purpose of making videos that don't cover the cost that is for sure, It was a fantastic idea while it lasted, Buying up old radios and tube equipment with power transformers, tubes... in it and only missing an OT transformer, but even then, people are now selling old non working radios for the price of an ounce of gold. We all would hate to see you stop making these fun little amps, but i think most of us understands.
Shift gears
I think you answered your own question.
My brother wants me to build a Marshall 50 watt replica (2204). because he wants the sound of mine which is incredible. I have spent years and research getting that sound of which will never happen with stock circuit. he asked the cost. I said it would likley be $1200 in parts. that is not including my time. My price would be $2000. no one will pay that for a replica even though it would be a better amp than an original. That is where it is.
Move into hi end audio amps.
It's like building a hot rod car. If you just do it for a hobby or the learning experience. Then fine. But if you ever expect to get your money back out of it, chances are you're never gonna see it.
I couldn't afford it.
A lot of up-front with amps to be sure
I think it's time to shift gears and do something different.
I quit making amplifiers a year ago because it's just not worth it anymore. Nobody wants to pay what it costs to build them with new parts, and old parts are inconsistent and don't always end up sounding decent.
It's a business so you have to listen to the market. If you're not getting paid back for your materials and time, then it's not good business. ☹
I appreciate everyone's input. yes, I need to think smarter. I am an old school guy, dont even own a cell phone : ) Hard to make changes, but I will.
If your channel was generating more income, I'd say; keep doing them just for content and sell at break-even. I doubt RUclips is generating that kind of income so...repairing other people's rigs it is!
You forgot to add the taxes you have to pay for your profits
Yes, those just hit too. Not very enjoyable
Not worth it. Better keep repairing and taking on projects. I contacted for a project last year 1/8/24 and you were back logged. Are you taking on projects at the moment ?
For fun maybe. For money no.
If the tariffs are implemented as announced, the cost of food, energy, lumber, clothing, vehicles will make the cost of electronic parts the least of our worries.
Brainstorm. We could look at history and see many the millionaire who sat down and asked themselves that same question when they were bankrupt or starving.
Often times they didn't just switch gears, they switched transmissions altogether-so to speak.
The cost of Tubes today is far too high. Because of the War in Ukraine, Russia has major Tariffs on its Valve production. This factor makes amp manufacture very expensive.
Sad but not worth it? 🙁
Take emotion out of the equation, examine only the economic facts you presented, and I would say it does not make sense. The market has spoken. Adding tariffs on top of post-pandemic inflation will only make it worse. Hard times ahead for hobbyists and small business.
During and right after Covid, you gave us low cost options for tubes, and even transformers. Maybe more of that.
For those of us that have lost loved ones to unchecked drug trafficking over the last decade, riding this out while we pressure our neighbors to the north and south to get involved, is something I’m willing to endure. I’ve attended too many funerals, including my own daughter, because of this.
The tariffs on Hammond transformers (Canada) are acceptable to me, in order to get Trudeau off his butt and into this fight.
Is it worth it?!? NOPE!
lol..I would save my money..y'all will be payin more for everything...your market will bottom out ..New Black Monday for Merica....y'all broke a Trade deal with Canada/Mexico..try selling U.S. in Canada...lol..Mexico might respond different...lol
I don't watch the HAM radio videos, sorry, but I'm not interested. If you stop making videos of repairing guitar amplifiers I'm going to stop watching all of your videos.
me too
Yes, I understand, Nope I will not stop my friend
@@d-labelectronics Please do not take offense to my comment. I barely comprehend the work you do with the guitars amps, and I am a guitar player! Although its interesting,I am totally lost when it comes to radios. I simply just can’t follow and comprehend it!
Please don’t stop making amp repair videos! I have learned some things from them.
I do understand if you decide not to build and sell guitar amps though. I can see the high prices on everything not making it worth your time. I am still subscribed! I have lots of videos in your catalog I have not seen yet!
Thank you for sharing your knowledge.
I appreciate you very much!
Nobody wants them anymore