whoever edited this, my hats off to them. The blending of audio, the addition camera direction and mapping helped a lot in gaining a better perspective of those who where there and how things began to unravel. Good Job.
At the roughly 12:35 how the operator was explaining the situation to his crew is the type of calm and collective leadership that really makes your guy's trust you and feel safe. Hats off to him. Man what a gnarly situation
Solid use of multiple video/multiple perspectives simultaneously. The graphic representing audio/radio traffic, from the different resources, was easy to follow.
Wait... what the fuck happened with the Jake situation??! Did I miss it or something?? Talk about a cliffhanger.. I guess I'll have to wait for season 2...
The video was very well "filmed" and the editing was splendid. When I saw the location of this fire the hair on the back of my neck went up. On December 20 & 21, 1977, very near the Canyon Fire, the Vandenberg Fire burned 10,000 acres, killed 4 people and injured many more. Those killed included the Base Commander, his Executive Officer, the Fire Chief, and a dozer operator. The low lying fuel and the topographic alignment of both fires with the squirrelly onshore flow from the Pacific Ocean were a "design for disaster." If anything I would be more cautious on a fire in this area than on many other fires. As I watched the video, I remember that Clive Countryman listed flashy fuels as a common denominator of fatal fires. Then I looked at things in view LCES that my friend Paul developed. 1. I could not see designated Lookouts. I think there needed to be more than one because of the distances involved and the poor visibility. 2. Communication seemed to be done well. 3. The Escape route to the 4. Safety zone grew two long, 2,000 feet. Even though the escape route was along a clear fire break, it was still the length of six football fields in smoke and slope and not quickly traversable. New safety zones should have been constructed as the firing progressed. Additionally, I would have called for the tanker/helitack equivalent of "reverse tool order" much earlier. The fire weather became dangerous very quickly. In fact, I may not have lit off the burn at all. Personnel accountability was poor. The Engine Captain should have known where the missing engine crewperson was. Both the helitack crew and the other engine crewperson should have been given rides out regardless of crowding on the vehicles. I worked in wildfire for almost 20 years until the mid '80s when heart problems forced me out. It seems the further I am from actual fire fighting, the clearer more things become. I now realize that those of us "old, old" timers may still have something to offer the wildfire community. I think the other main suggestion I would offer is to use entrapment and fatal fire examples as part of your crew training, especially in your initial or secondary response areas. It might jolt your memory of past fires if a new fire starts there. It's easier to remember, "On_________ nasty fire such and such happened," rather than "I don't remember what I was told about something."
This video gave me some very good inside and understanding of the real condition of Yarnell tragedy. My mind set on those 19 heroes and I cannot find peace in my mind... Somehow I convinced myself that if I find what went wrong it will bring them back.. I know it’s not the fact but I just cannot made my mind around it. I feel for them so much
Awesome work! This video is just brilliant. It's really useful, it reminds me so much an entrapment where two guys perished here in Spain in 2012. Thank you again WFLLC!
Great work on the video, I just finished the written incident review. Once again being on the line during the hours of 1400-1900 is a hazard. It's my 19th watch out.
Comin' in late here, but it seems there's little recognition of the developing rotation. Someone mentions whirls but the entire plume is rotating pretty rapidly and is quite large. Are these rotating plumes not seen for the massive danger they pose?
Brave and courageous people! Wow. This behavior is overwhelming for me. Lifesavers and Heros. These rain of ember is unbelievable and it must be so incredible hot. And no air/oxygen to breathe.
They really need high power amber flood light it just penetrate through heavy smoke/fog like a hot knife through butter And also wildlife trucks should be adopted with sprinkling system like they have in Australia
because of stupidity, inside a crew cabin there is always place for a few more. And where they were was a safe zone they shouldn't had left it. it was a safe place for them to be.
The written report addresses the walking vs. driving question. It's not a no-brainer: driving in those conditions, along a narrow ridge when the visibility was often zero, was dangerous and slow. The advantage of driving was better protection from smoke & embers, but walking was probably faster.
I know jack all about firefighting but I've gotten into a binge of these videos and it seems to me like there is gross organizational incompetence and general chaos on display in every single one. Even as a total layman I know that it should NOT have taken them that long to go 2000 feet!
At 1622 when the order was given to head to the Saftey Zone it looks like Engine 209 Engine 253 and the Helitack Crew could have just stayed put.. in there area right there.. Helitack could have bumped backed to where Engine 209 was... That area looked sweet enough to me........ Any thoughts?
We are all responsible for SA..... I am a firm believer in making or having as many Safety Zones as possible. What good are your Escape Routes if there jammed up with confusion and fear ?.. What good are your Safety Zones if you cannot get to them? All I am saying is that it is each one of our responsibilities to make informed decisions on a Go No Go Scenario. Obviously the PIC of that area was unaware of a few factors for the entire convoy...
Nice video but screw it, you guys left one unaccounted for. Wtf. Knowingly you have one unaccounted for you still continue without him? I’ve been in worse than that. Never left without the man next to me.
The one unaccounted for was the captain. He told the others that he was going to walk back. It was not inappropriate for the crew to continue driving back under those circumstances. In fact, from the written report, the captain started out walking the other way because he wanted to make sure that all the crews had received the order to return to the safety zone. It was a heroic move on his part, one that could have turned out much worse as he was overcome by the smoke later on.
Interesting.. “one engine trying to back out/turn around” makes sense let’s competely back up all the other resources to the point they lose visibility endangering multiple lives and apparatuses. You can hear the complete terror in the female FF voice at one point “what the **** is the hold up!” Exactly what id be thinking too. Hopefully the incompetent operator of that vehicle was dealt with appropriately. Someone with such short sighted thinking needs to reconsider his career choice.
I haven't read the incident report, what was the situation of this engine? It looked like they were on a narrow ridge top, perhaps it was safer to try to back the engine down to a spot where it could turn. I don't know that I would leap directly to the operator being incompetent, remember they're trying to back a multi ton engine down a narrow road with zero visibility and a soft shoulder on both sides. That being said I'm sure I wouldn't have been happy with the situation if i was in one of the other engines.
god damn!!! so intense that shit was crazy, i'm so proud of the wildland firefighters we have here in cali.Thank you guys and gals for busting your asses to stomp out these fires.Be safe out there you badassmuthafuckas!!! also an awesome video!!
All you guys have to keep calm. Esp ypur your the engine captn or engine boss. Gotta be in control keep calm talk calm, calm your folks and keep your sit awareness up
The short answer is yes. But the incident report goes into detail that explains a lot, how there were a few firefighters in severe danger. Plus it explains the story behind the empty fire shelter and gear seen at 13:36.
It seems like 9 out of 10 times a line of vehicles gets stuck like this because vehicles in the front of the convoy take their gd time. You'd think "moving with a sense of urgency" when the fire is coming wouldn't necessarily need to be taught, but apparently it does.
whoever edited this, my hats off to them. The blending of audio, the addition camera direction and mapping helped a lot in gaining a better perspective of those who where there and how things began to unravel.
Good Job.
At the roughly 12:35 how the operator was explaining the situation to his crew is the type of calm and collective leadership that really makes your guy's trust you and feel safe. Hats off to him. Man what a gnarly situation
Solid use of multiple video/multiple perspectives simultaneously. The graphic representing audio/radio traffic, from the different resources, was easy to follow.
8:02 masterful work at keeping that burrito warm in such a tense situation
Wait... what the fuck happened with the Jake situation??! Did I miss it or something?? Talk about a cliffhanger.. I guess I'll have to wait for season 2...
The video was very well "filmed" and the editing was splendid.
When I saw the location of this fire the hair on the back of my neck went up. On December 20 & 21, 1977, very near the Canyon Fire, the Vandenberg Fire burned 10,000 acres, killed 4 people and injured many more. Those killed included the Base Commander, his Executive Officer, the Fire Chief, and a dozer operator. The low lying fuel and the topographic alignment of both fires with the squirrelly onshore flow from the Pacific Ocean were a "design for disaster." If anything I would be more cautious on a fire in this area than on many other fires.
As I watched the video, I remember that Clive Countryman listed flashy fuels as a common denominator of fatal fires. Then I looked at things in view LCES that my friend Paul developed. 1. I could not see designated Lookouts. I think there needed to be more than one because of the distances involved and the poor visibility. 2. Communication seemed to be done well. 3. The Escape route to the 4. Safety zone grew two long, 2,000 feet. Even though the escape route was along a clear fire break, it was still the length of six football fields in smoke and slope and not quickly traversable. New safety zones should have been constructed as the firing progressed.
Additionally, I would have called for the tanker/helitack equivalent of "reverse tool order" much earlier. The fire weather became dangerous very quickly. In fact, I may not have lit off the burn at all. Personnel accountability was poor. The Engine Captain should have known where the missing engine crewperson was. Both the helitack crew and the other engine crewperson should have been given rides out regardless of crowding on the vehicles.
I worked in wildfire for almost 20 years until the mid '80s when heart problems forced me out. It seems the further I am from actual fire fighting, the clearer more things become. I now realize that those of us "old, old" timers may still have something to offer the wildfire community. I think the other main suggestion I would offer is to use entrapment and fatal fire examples as part of your crew training, especially in your initial or secondary response areas. It might jolt your memory of past fires if a new fire starts there. It's easier to remember, "On_________ nasty fire such and such happened," rather than "I don't remember what I was told about something."
This video gave me some very good inside and understanding of the real condition of Yarnell tragedy. My mind set on those 19 heroes and I cannot find peace in my mind... Somehow I convinced myself that if I find what went wrong it will bring them back.. I know it’s not the fact but I just cannot made my mind around it. I feel for them so much
I used to be a dozer operator there when I was active duty. This video is great! My hats off to you guys!
Awesome work! This video is just brilliant. It's really useful, it reminds me so much an entrapment where two guys perished here in Spain in 2012.
Thank you again WFLLC!
Great work on the video, I just finished the written incident review. Once again being on the line during the hours of 1400-1900 is a hazard. It's my 19th watch out.
Thanks for the comment, Fred. What specifically should we do during those hours (1400-1900) on the line?
So what happened to Jake.
were empty shelter and line gear Jake's?
Comin' in late here, but it seems there's little recognition of the developing rotation. Someone mentions whirls but the entire plume is rotating pretty rapidly and is quite large.
Are these rotating plumes not seen for the massive danger they pose?
Brave and courageous people! Wow. This behavior is overwhelming for me. Lifesavers and Heros. These rain of ember is unbelievable and it must be so incredible hot. And no air/oxygen to breathe.
Who made this video? Amazing job! So much can be learned from This video
They really need high power amber flood light it just penetrate through heavy smoke/fog like a hot knife through butter
And also wildlife trucks should be adopted with sprinkling system like they have in Australia
Well, that was terrifying. I wonder what happened to Jake
9:47 My thoughts exactly. Whoever suggested turning around made a critical error.
Damn, these guys have some balls.
Why didn't they pick up the guys that were walking?
Must have been a good reason, but yeah. "Climb on top, man!"
It looked to me like the guys walking were moving faster than the trucks.
because of stupidity, inside a crew cabin there is always place for a few more. And where they were was a safe zone they shouldn't had left it. it was a safe place for them to be.
The written report addresses the walking vs. driving question. It's not a no-brainer: driving in those conditions, along a narrow ridge when the visibility was often zero, was dangerous and slow. The advantage of driving was better protection from smoke & embers, but walking was probably faster.
Did they ever find jake?
HO-LE-COW! God bless those who had to endure this hell while fighting this fire.
I know jack all about firefighting but I've gotten into a binge of these videos and it seems to me like there is gross organizational incompetence and general chaos on display in every single one. Even as a total layman I know that it should NOT have taken them that long to go 2000 feet!
I've seen soccer moms in minivans do a better job of driving through fires.
Ask me how I know you've never tried to drive through a wind driven fire lolol
@@teamsiqfuti4721 They had to go slow because a truck in front had to drive in reverse, so yes, it was a screw up that led to this.
At 1622 when the order was given to head to the Saftey Zone it looks like Engine 209 Engine 253 and the Helitack Crew could have just stayed put.. in there area right there.. Helitack could have bumped backed to where Engine 209 was... That area looked sweet enough to me........ Any thoughts?
Why do you think those resources continued to the Safety Zone?
SOP's
Will you stay put or move to the safety zone when the word comes down?
We are all responsible for SA..... I am a firm believer in making or having as many Safety Zones as possible. What good are your Escape Routes if there jammed up with confusion and fear ?.. What good are your Safety Zones if you cannot get to them? All I am saying is that it is each one of our responsibilities to make informed decisions on a Go No Go Scenario. Obviously the PIC of that area was unaware of a few factors for the entire convoy...
Thanks Frank. Here's to good 'go-no-go discussions' on the line!
From 7:20 all the way threw it was so hard to watch
Nice video but screw it, you guys left one unaccounted for. Wtf. Knowingly you have one unaccounted for you still continue without him? I’ve been in worse than that. Never left without the man next to me.
The one unaccounted for was the captain. He told the others that he was going to walk back. It was not inappropriate for the crew to continue driving back under those circumstances. In fact, from the written report, the captain started out walking the other way because he wanted to make sure that all the crews had received the order to return to the safety zone. It was a heroic move on his part, one that could have turned out much worse as he was overcome by the smoke later on.
Interesting.. “one engine trying to back out/turn around” makes sense let’s competely back up all the other resources to the point they lose visibility endangering multiple lives and apparatuses. You can hear the complete terror in the female FF voice at one point “what the **** is the hold up!” Exactly what id be thinking too. Hopefully the incompetent operator of that vehicle was dealt with appropriately. Someone with such short sighted thinking needs to reconsider his career choice.
I haven't read the incident report, what was the situation of this engine? It looked like they were on a narrow ridge top, perhaps it was safer to try to back the engine down to a spot where it could turn. I don't know that I would leap directly to the operator being incompetent, remember they're trying to back a multi ton engine down a narrow road with zero visibility and a soft shoulder on both sides. That being said I'm sure I wouldn't have been happy with the situation if i was in one of the other engines.
I'd push his truck down the canyon.... he can back up there
Of course had to be the woman to freak out and start screaming.
Every time
Not an acceptable comment dude😢 12:52
They don't belong in that line of work. They're a liability
This is an absolutely sensational video! VERY well done!
How much do these people get paid? Whatever it is, it's not enough.
god damn!!! so intense that shit was crazy, i'm so proud of the wildland firefighters we have here in cali.Thank you guys and gals for busting your asses to stomp out these fires.Be safe out there you badassmuthafuckas!!! also an awesome video!!
i dont understand why they didnt pick those guys up ... or why didnt they just get in the truck
All you guys have to keep calm. Esp ypur your the engine captn or engine boss. Gotta be in control keep calm talk calm, calm your folks and keep your sit awareness up
So was he found? Did I miss something?
Read the report for the full story: www.wildfirelessons.net/viewdocument/canyon-fire-entrapment-2016
The short answer is yes. But the incident report goes into detail that explains a lot, how there were a few firefighters in severe danger. Plus it explains the story behind the empty fire shelter and gear seen at 13:36.
@@WildfirelessonsNet The link no longer works.
It seems like 9 out of 10 times a line of vehicles gets stuck like this because vehicles in the front of the convoy take their gd time. You'd think "moving with a sense of urgency" when the fire is coming wouldn't necessarily need to be taught, but apparently it does.
Why do the backpacks hang so low? Is there a purpose for that? it looks like it would be painful to carry with it hanging so low
Keeps the weight low on your hips instead of straining your back. Makes it easier to dig line etc.
@@Andy-rp3eeThanks for your insight, I had the same question.
BRAVE HEROES!!!
Great work.