EVERYTHING YOU KNOW ABOUT FORD IS WRONG!
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- Опубликовано: 26 сен 2024
- Its finally time to deep dive into Stanford's personality and prove once and for all he isnt the character you once believed!
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And people had the nerve to say Weirdmageddon was Mabels fault
I wouldn't say it was her fault but she did give an object that didn't belong to her to selfishly make the summer continue.
She didn’t even know what the rift was for id bet
@@emiliogarcia9148 she didnt because stanford told dipper not to tell her !
@@TheNighyWriterPartiiithe thing is this isn’t rlly a fair thing to use against her since dipper did the same thing trying to give away one of Mabel’s puppets to bill for the password for the computer. They’re both selfish and both kids but people give more hate to Mabel ;(
I believe that its ford'd fault... if only he told his family😭
Ford is living proof that your intelligence quotient might be high, but your emotional intelligence does hold much more importance regarding how to live and be fulfilled in your own life, both socially and individually.
Put it perfectly 🔥🔥🔥
Like Rick
It's a common flaw I've seen in LOADS of so-called "geniuses" in the world, both real and fictional.
Just look at Dexter from Dexter's Lab, Sheldon from Big Bang Theory, Jimmy Newtron, Brian Griffin (to a degree,) Tony Stark, Lisa Loud and most notoriously, Rick Sanchez. In terms of real world examples, Stephen Hawking may have been guilty of this as well before he passed away.
These people may rule math and science...but they have the social skills of a tree stump
@@SilverScribe85 Well, anyone (especially smart people) can increase/improve their emotional intelligence if they want to. But, not everyone is willing to put in the effort nor knows how to improve themselves.
@@just_an_internet_explorer8038 they’re in the same multiverse and Rick signed his wanted poster “Rick was here”
I just realized that dipper learned a lot of lessons throughout the summer. A lot of that was thanks to Stanley Stanley taught him more heartwarming lessons. Then ford ever could.
That’s why it’s important to be around people who are different from you. You can learn more that way.
Ford in the time that he come back:
1) Tell Dipper to not trust his family.
2) Telling Dipper that using a Mind Control Tie is somehow ok.
3) Saying that using a Bow is ok (A bow can do potentially seriously more damage than a Grappling Hook)
4) Shaving with fire is ok.
5) Living with your best friend/ sibling/ Twin is suffocating
6) Playing D&D&More D is more important than the universe being potentially in danger but somehow Stan is more reckless?
7) Skipping through life and live in the basement alone is somehow better?
8) "Kid show" are bad (the worst crime we should nuke him)
And many more smaller things that i didnt mention here
@@Megaman-2407 And yet, Stan actually gave Dipper good advice. (even though in Bill Cipher's Debut episode, that wasn't really good advice)
@@Megaman-2407theres also him teaching dipper to not feel fear (to be fair it was minda needed at the time but still not a very good lesson to teach a child☠️)
@@Yellowguy0619 I didnt said his advice was GOOD mind you lmao
bill cipher was lying when he mentioned being praised as a child, there's actually more hinting via ciphers & other subtext that bill was lying about having a happy childhood, he actually had a hard life because of his "odd eye"
didn't bill say that kids teased him for setting things on fire with his powers on accident?
yeah, exactly. that, i think, is a more powerful similarity between bill and ford - they were both bullied because of their "abnormality". ford was bullied for his fingers so heavily that he still thinks about his main bully even when he is in his 60s (when dipper put the machine on him in s2ep15, the thoughts show him thinking about crampelter, his school bully), and bill was not only bullied as it was hinted in book of bill, but also was tried to be "fixed" by the doctors that made him drink the thing that would make him go blind.
I think he was praised for being an equilateral triangle when he was younger but over time after he started speaking about the 3rd detention he was called weird and maybe even overlooked by someone else
@@girlpower_gacha Ah yes, "The 3rd Detention", the third layer beyond the 2nd detention that can only be accessed in if you look up at the school ceiling and really focus in on it until God decides to ascend you up into the light.
I do think he made a lot of mistakes. Especially with how he was portrayed as very main character esque and thinking he had to only go it alone, keeping grudges and pushing people away. However I’m glad the point is that he gets better altho wish we got an on screen apology from Ford
I agree- wish it wasn’t relegated to journal three but I love his character arc in the series regardless!!!
I think a lot of people overlook that Mabel's only 12 years old.
People will find any excuse to hate female characters. It doesn't matter how old or young they are 🙄
And the fact that in the book of bill it shows how their parents always argue with each other and Mabel didn't want to go back to that home life by herself 😭
@@tartlynerdyI agree. I used to hate on Mabel as well tbh *when I was 11* and didn’t fully understand the show. What writers did here is the same thing as Vince Gillian did to Walter White: make him loved by viewers but actually make him the wordt
@@tartlynerdyHer being a female character has nothing to do with the hate she's getting, this is just an ridiculous conclusion😂
In fact, i think that if she was a male character, she would get even more hate.
@@CrookedCloverthat makes it more sadder. Like can you imagine how Mabel would emotionally go thru so much by living alone with her parents and just see nothing but arguing and insults every day. And there’s also the possibility that all the kids in her hometown don’t wanna be friends with her cuz they consider her weird and also bullying her 😢
To be honest, I’ve always seen Stanford as a bad person who tried changing, this is a great video explaining it! :D
I’m glad u enjoyed it!!! 🥹
Wanting to change is half the battle
It's important to remember that Stanford's entire motivation is proving people wrong, his bullies, his father, everyone. So he doesn't want to go to West Coast Tech anymore, he wants to make them regret their decision to dismiss him and prove he never needed them in the first place.
This doesn't change the fact he's still mad at Stan about the accident, Ford's "I never needed you anyway" is a coping mechanism. Plus, at that moment Ford is upset because if it wasn't for Stan, he wouldn't be in this horrible situation.
Literally
Ford is stupid and he does do things that bad people do but I think his selfish motivations are more complex and placing all the blame on him is a little unfair. From expirience, I can say that being the golden child doesn't save you from questionable parenting. Sometimes its what you do to survive and all you can do is watch how your more "dissapointing" sibling gets the short end of it all because if you dare stand up to your parents, you will also be discarded. And as a golden child you grow up thinking your only value is in your achievements, the only way you can get people to love you is by proving your worth. Ford was lonely, he expresses in the journal that "As enamored as I am with this town's marvels; I must confess that I never felt lonlier." From his perspective, the only person who gave him unconditional love did the opposite of supporting him by sabotaging him, enforcing the feeling of "I am only valueable for what I bring to the table." If all his research is destroyed, how will people be able to love him now? Both Stan and Ford could've done a better job at communicating their thoughts and feelings because they were both refusing to try to see the other's perspective. (On the side, grant money depending on the type is only supposed to be for research purposes unless you want to be taxed or prosecuted so he its not like he could've used that money for his family unless it directly aided his research) And it's not his entire fault that Fiddleford's life was ruined. Ford did not force Fiddleford to make the gun and he even dissaproved it , Ford even tried to teach Fiddleford healthier coping mechanisms for anxiety. Ford was a catalyst in Fiddleford's downfall sure, but in the end it was tragically Fiddleford who made the choice to abuse the gun to the point of even using it on Stanford as well which has it's own messed up moral implications. (And Ford is jewish, how could he have anticipated his friend would give him a Christmas gift) Gravity Falls is amazing for having complex characters that the fans can have this sort of conversations about, and I'm sorry for yapping I just love complicated characters. This is part of why therapists think I'm autistic
very well said
This. Ford is not a “bad person”. He is flawed, and most of those flaws come from his upbringing. I get very angry seeing people call him a “bad person”. I feel that that is a bad faith, surface level, and harmful stance on his character.
Fords major flaws, in my eyes, are as follows:
1. Thinks he has to prove his right to exist in this world and bases his self worth on his success, and if he is not successful then he is a freak and not worth anything.
2. Low emotional intelligence and empathy issues. This is typical of autistic people and no one ever taught him about emotional intelligence.
3. Easily manipulated, major trust issues that bill severely worsened.
4. Savior complex. See number 1 honestly.
5. And this is by far his biggest flaw IMO, he projects his issues and insecurities onto others.
He hates himself. And he runs from it. And he hurts other people by accident.
Is he an asshole sometimes? Yes.
Does he hurt people? Yes.
Does he care about people? Yes.
Can he be selfless? Yes.
Can he be selfish? Also yes.
People are presenting a false dichotomy, just because he isn’t a perfect person doesn’t mean he’s a BAD person.
TLDR: ford’s character flaws could have been fixed through therapy. I am legitimately considering writing an essay on this show. Ford is my favorite character and I see a lot of myself in him as an ex-gifted child. I have more to say but I have shit to do rn. This is all my opinion and I am open to discussion as long as it is good-faith, polite, and empathetic.
TLDR TLDR: ford is autistic and I probably am too honestly
@@SomeRandomEcho @SomeRandomEcho I love the autistic Ford headcanon. I also see a lot of myself in him as a former top student who ended up going to college at a place that some people consider their back up option. (It's a great place though) I also have a complicated relationship with my brother....so maybe my interpretation of Ford could be potentially biased but as I've learned in my years of analyzing writing...there's bias in everything even when we don't mean there to be. It's also fiction so anything is possible. I thought it was interesting how the Book of Bill was able to create more conversation about Ford and the compelling nature of his arc and I wonder if we are going to get even more content in the future
@@HenryClerval idk. I have to leave the comment section alone for a bit bc it’s making me agitated, but my perspective on him wasn’t that altered by the book of bill. People say that journal 3 showed how much of an AH ford it, but I just don’t see it. Those aren’t his true thoughts, they’re how he rationalizes and copes with his self loathing because he’s too terrified to confront or even acknowledge his insecurities and flaws. In my eyes he’s not been happy, aside from being with Stan on the beach he’s never been truly at peace until after the series (even if everything isn’t perfect it’s the closest it’s ever been to perfect). He’s always been a character who is so obviously hurting inside, he’s in so much pain and he doesn’t even consciously realize it. And he lashes out BECAUSE of that hurting. He hates himself. And he buries it by acting egotistical because if he’s not destined for greatness then what the hell is he good for? This may just be me projecting but I think he has OCD. He is in so much pain and he does shitty things because of it, and I’m just now realizing that I don’t think most people in this comment section see that.
He’s not a bad person. He’s just in pain.
@@HenryClerval also I’m not gonna apologize for writing essays about him in the comment section because I don’t feel sorry LOL.
Also talking about ford with people made me realize that most people don’t psycoanalize characters automatically and talk about character depth for fun and that I am infact weird for doing that. lol. I like being weird tho. Keep being weird too friend
It's really sad when you realize stan is a low intelligence character but he manages to open a portal its show how dedicated stan is when he want something and when he open the portal what Stanford did punch stan and he I've told stan to leave the mystery shack in the end of the summer when stan is the one who keep the the mystery shack for 30 year
Stan isnt low intelligent we see how successful he run a business for decades you cant just "Get lucky">
Stan is intelligent he just isnt motivated in the School learning department as much as Ford
Sorry thought he was just dedicated to bring her brother back sorry for the misunderstood😞
@@dandanconde8472 He IS Desicated But Ford legit need Bill and Ford help to even get it built even if you were smart how tf would you do it fast?
I worked for Stanford Pines. He’s a fraud.
I can't believe this lets cancel him
@@Clockatsevenohseven
#Fordisoverparty
You sure that wasn’t Stanley
I heard his real name was Stanley, and he stole the name from a guy who died in a car crash smh.
This was a really good analysis. I think that Ford's MANY flaws make him fascinating.
However, there where a few things I'd like to add:
1) I can't believe you didn't mention how Ford literally thought he was DESTINED for greatest. The Oracle tells him 'he has the face of the man who will defeat Bill Cipher'.
2) While I think it's a fun IDEA to blame Ford for Weirdmageddon; I don't actually think that's true. He was venerable to manipulation, and Bill took advantage of that. The only one truly responsible for Weirdmageddon is the demon who planed it.
3) I don't agree with your reading on Ford's feelings about Mabel. While the fandom likes to make parallels between the different set of twins; I don't think Ford views Mabel the way he views Stan (with all the resentment). Ford said 'Mabel will be fine. I saw her become pen pals with the pizza guy in the 30 seconds he was at the door'. I don't think there's any malintent there; this is just another instance of Ford not thinking about others.
4) I don't believe it's fair to label Stan or Ford as 'Use to be bad, but now there're good'. That seems like an over simplification. Stan does bad things, but I would never call him a bad person. I don't think he ONLY becomes good after he gives up his since of self. Stan was ALWAYS willing to sacrifice himself for his family.
Similarly, I don't think Ford ONLY becomes interesting after he starts to improve (and I say start, because Ford has had these fatal flaws for 40 years and I don't think we can say he's improved after a couple happy pages in the journal). Character's are most interesting BECAUSE of there flaws.
Sorry, this was a long one. I just had a lot of thoughts. 😅
Ooo ty for the reply!!! 1: I think that’s a great point and tbh wishing I put that in. 2: I think the reason I blamed ford is bc there was evidence on the cave paintings that showed it was a bad idea- and he ignored it😭 3: I think I should have clarified that I meant it more so as a non conscious thing- ford actually liked Mabel right off the bat but bc she’s so similar to Stanley I would assume he unconsciously did this- which is him not thinking of the impact of others and his trauma! 4: tbh the reason I do the “he’s bad and so is he!” Is more for clickbait than anything- I would agree that there’s a lot more nuance to these conversations but no one wants to hear me say “hey this character is a moral gray are LOL!” And then to ur last point yes I would agree it takes years of irl time to change as a person! But for the sake of the video and for the narrative it’s implied he’s righted his wrongs ☺️ I appreciate ur thoughts ty for taking the time outta ur day to engage with me fr fr ❤️❤️❤️
@@the_chestnut_tanuki OMG, thank you for the response (you seem very polite). I also appreciate the clarification; that helped me understand your argument better. 😅
One thing though (and I'm genuinely curious): I don't quite get the argument that 'Ford is the one who summoned him, built the portal, and thus, started the apocalypse', because Bill's been trying to get to the 'real world' for centuries and Stanford Pines isn't the first person Bill got help from. He's just the latest in a long line, who actual managed to succeed.
I always felt, that if it wasn't Ford, then Bill would've found someone else eventually. And that untimely, it was a good thing that Bill chose Ford. Because in the end, the Pines Family defeated Bill; could we say the same if the circumstances where different?
While I personally don't like putting a heavy influence on destiny or prophecy (cause I feel that takes away from the characters agency and freewill), but we can't deny that citizens of Gravity Falls were prophesied in the Cipher Weel and that Stan Pines (as was destined) defeated Bill Cipher.
I loved the conversation being held. Sorry for the random comment but this was really insightful
Yeah, Ford definitely likes Mabel early on. He just doesn't see twins being separated as a big deal, after all, he turned out "fine"
I'm pretty sure he's got NPD. I do and reading the journal sounds so much like the way I think.
Main character syndrome is a big problem today with a lot of people. Sadly not many are actually on the path to save the world. They either think their path is that erroneously or it's just a path of self aggrandizement.
> Casually summons an ancient triangle demon from a cave filled with cryptic warnings because I need advice and am lonely
I love this video! Finally, someone pointed out the parallels between Ford and Bill Cipher! ( I see what you did at 14:08 ;) ) Also, I never realized that Ford indirectly caused Weirdmaggedon not only by building the portal in the first place, but by being a bad influence on Dipper and ultimately creating the divide that lead to Mabel giving the rift to possessed Blendin ... that's wild!
I’m glad u enjoyed the video and also got my ref 👀👀👀 hehe
Is it just me or is the mind electric playing in the background 😭
I noticed it too!!
Truly a Michelin level analysis video, no notes.
🥹🥹🥹 TY ❤️❤️❤️
Ppl blaming a 12 year old girl for the apocalypse over a grizzled adult researcher is the funniest thing ever
Off topic but why did the “I did it, I saved the town” ford there that is crazy 😭
Where does this meme come from
@@mayaabueg9018 I haven’t read it, but I’m pretty sure the meme comes from this comic after the Book of Bill came out. People were joking that Bill and Ford’s relationship was basically a toxic *romantic* relationship, and someone put that in comic form. Basically Ford and Bill were *intimate* and afterwards Ford looks out at the town and goes “I did it. I saved the town.” In the fan-made comic.
@@lilybirdflowergum8683 😂
@@lilybirdflowergum8683it was actually an animation video.
Also It’s funny how so many people think that bill/ford animation is terrible but honestly that’s so tame for a nsfw animation. People think that animation is horrible?? That is NOTHING compared to The true horror in GF nsfw fanarts. There’s the freaking nsfw dipperXmabel art. Like I am not kidding, not only some fanartists ship dipper and Mabel but they also draw freaking sexual fanart between them! And that is like a thousand times far worse! So honestly people shouldn’t overreact all because of a tame nsfw ford/bill animation. I rather watch that animation than those certain gross dipper and Mabel art.
@@firemiracle the vid isn’t even terrible the dialogue and unseasoned twink bill design is just so unintentionally funny that it became a meme
It’s just mean when he corrected Stanley’s grammar😭
Next part pls!!!! Love it!
This is an excellent character analysis. Stanford has always been a deeply compelling character, and it's precisely because of his massive flaws. Almost *everything* you argue in this video has been backed up by Alex Hirsch himself, *especially* his projecting on Dipper. For example, on the commentary on Dipper and Mabel VS The Future, Alex outright says Ford's greatest flaw is his arrogance, that "he believes there's special people, and everyone else" that "the song and dance he's giving Dipper right now is the exact same song and dance he gave Mcgucket back when they were younger" which is an interesting parallel. Alex says Dipper is correct to be hesitant and suspicious of the offer, because "Ford is projecting. Ford loves Dipper because he sees someone who will tell him yes to everything, who will never challenge him". People often point out how damaging this apprenticeship would have been for Dipper, but I also find it interesting to consider how damaging it would have been for Ford. By surrounding himself with Dipper, who practically worships him, his god complex would have only grown. He would continue to make worse and worse decisions, rationalizing them with Dipper’s blind hero-worship support. In a way, he would be in a similar situation to the one he was in before, with Dipper acting both as Fiddleford (eagerly helping under the belief that he’s furthering the innovation of mankind) *and* Bill (stroking Ford’s ego and telling him he’s the best, without the same malicious and manipulative intent Bill had, of course).
I really wish Stanford had gotten more screen time than he did so his flaws could be explored more deeply and we could visually see him beginning to take the first steps in repairing his relationships after Weirdmaggadon. But even though we didn’t get to see very much of his character arc on screen, the Journal really comes through in that aspect. Though I personally don't agree with your labeling of characters as "good", "bad", or "used to be bad but now good" (I think this simplifies them too much) you did an amazing job analyzing Stanford's flaws, and this was just overall a great video. Thank you for bringing Gravity Falls’ complex writing to light, as I feel not enough people realize just how fleshed out it is.
I see my younger self in Stanford. I used to really like him, way more than Grunkle Stan (which is crazy to me now.) I had a huge ego and isolated myself. I truly believed I was the main character in everyone's lives, even trying to spark problems in other people's lives so I could have something to "solve." It's a learning curve, and you have to constantly remind yourself that you aren't the center of attention. I still struggle with it, but, like Ford, I grew SLOWLY into a 'normal' person in how I SHOULD view myself. Still, confidence and pride is a fine line. I still like Ford because it's... little me.
How are your liking to Grunkle Stan now? He was alway my fav but Ford i atleast respect abit more now
Ford's lack of reaction may be more a fear of his father, I don't know why, but there may just be more layers here
Actually, Stanford was pissed because Stanley risked destroying the entire planet by reopening the portal. Stanley knew the risk the whole time, so Stanford had a pretty valid reason to be furious.
Now, I'm not taking sides on this. I find Fords anger about the portal completely justified. But it's also screwed up that Ford acted like an ungratefu peice of crap, and never even gave a single "Thank you". If anything, Ford became more and more passive aggressive throughout the show.
Did he tho? Stanley while reading just reads the "could cause minor gravity anomalies" before just ignoring it. Plus the warning about it possibly destroying the world was written in..Idk how it's called, the thing that Dipper needs to use a light to see. So Stanley most likely didn't know that and thought when he said "didn't you read my warnings?" He just thought he meant the gravity thing.
@@cbfranco3307 invisible ink
also it was revealed he was about to kill bill cipher before he got sent back to earth
Alright rap it up bill we know it’s you
It was not Mables fault she is 12y old and was tricked by a demon that existed for eons besides she was emotionally sad because she thought her twin brother was going to leave her alone
Exactly. She isn’t a shedemon.
Also, dipper was also going to contact his sister and not like isolate himself like his uncle did with his brother
The thing about ford is he is bills perfect pawn a egotistical genius with main character syndrome and victim complex
Yep.
I can't remember where it is (possibly in one of the journals) but the real reason why Ford was so angry at Stan when he first came out of the portal was because he was apparently running away from Bill cipher and the demons, had a bill killing gun pointed right at him but he had to hop through the portal before Bill's friends could hop through. Because Stan tried to save him, Ford wasn't able to get the shot. Then he comes back only to see his brother taking over his life and home and turning it into a freak show. (I would assume Ford would describe it as such) so I understand Ford being pissed.
But surprise surprise he NEVER talk about it to anyone because OMG "I cant trust them"
Bad person but an amazing character
I used to very much not like him but through the finale,Journal 3, Lost Legend and Book of Bill i came around to atleast view him as a proper Pine Family Member now (He is still the least favorite tho) and yeah people that "Love" him mostly is carried by his nerdiness or relatable status cuz if they REALLY meet him IRL they would quickly come to really want to punch him.
I can understand his frustration ofcourse and i can understand that he was hurted and betray but his action was just abit too much for me to just ignore unlike Stanley who try to right his wrong before the literal apocaplyse come to humble someone.
But at the end of the day i wont call him a bad person.........because a bad person is someone incapable of changing for the better atleast for me so i would call him extremely flawed person with a few redeeming traits.
1:30 the reason why stanford punches stanley because stanford was going to kill bill cipher with the gun we saw at starting of weirdmaggdon but with stanley opening portal he wasn't able to that punch was well deserved in my opinion
I agree with everything except the "well deserved" part. Its not like Stanley could've known that Ford was in the middle of something when he opened the portal.
Your characterization of Stanford is EXACTLY like mine, people excuse him more than they should and it’s FRUSTRATING 😭 I love Stanford because he’s so complex and flawed yet he manages to work on himself by the end which I love
Haven't finished the video yet but I have a little mini Theory: what is the reason why Ford is like this, is because of their father? He being the reason why his son is so emotionally immature, having the emotional maturity of a child even though he's intelligently an adult? because people don't realise that being emotionally immature is a terrible thing! and it actually affects you a lot as a person making you less sympathetic/empathetic as a result. you don't understand why you can't Comfort someone of your same age because children think the world of revolves around them- like Ford. and this is coming from someone who was emotionally immature but that's as best as I can word it :b
Mabel has a kind of monotropic focus where she occasionally gets absorbed in things and doesn't notice what is going on around her. So does ford, but Mabel has a great deal more empathy for other people.
True
Me after watching this video: 🤯
🥹🥹🥹
👏 👏 👏 👏 👏
Normalize the fact that Stanford Pines is a freaking narcissist. Preach it.
This video summed up everything I hated about Stanford for years until I got to read journal 3 where he finally tried to make amends with people he hurt the most. Stanford was a totally crappy person and selfish. I got really sick of the fact the fandom was so quick to give Stanford excuses because poor baby. He suffered enough because of Bill Cipher. No. He may have been tricked but Stanford still chose to prioritize Bill over everything else despite numerous red flags Bill was a toxic influence. Still, years later, people really have the audacity to claim Mabel did worse. Screw that noise. She was twelve. Stanford has no excuses.
He didn't warn stanley about anything about the portal either. That was a bold faced manipulative lie. Poor stanley had to figure all of that crap out by himself with only ONE journal.
Also consider the fact that the reason it was so easy for stanley to take over Stanford's life is because Stanford made literally no effort to connect with other people outside of Fiddleford, which he only saw as a means to his ends. I'm also really glad this video called out how he manipulated Dipper's hero worship. I don't really believe the offer to be his assistant was out of sincerely wanting to boost Dipper's future. He just wanted a mini me to live through vicariously and continue his legacy. Dipper would have eventually resented his grunkle ford for robbing him of his childhood with his sister.
I’ve never liked Ford. It always surprised me that the fandom loves him so much
My reaction was "I knew it" I hate this guy
And my personal opinion, I blame dipper because if he didn’t put his backpack where Mabel could have grabbed it Bill Cipher would have do something different
What I wonder is why Mabel and Dipper didn't check the content inside their identical bags before taking them. It could have helped them avoid the Weirdmageddon disaster (at least temporarily).
14:08 Not the Mango's Ford 😭
I did it… I saved the town🤭
Is a person even allowed to use their college grant money outside of pursuing research?
Tbh probs is different from state to state and between colleges
@@the_chestnut_tanukigenerally, The money must be used how the grant was intended to, but he could of still used that money to make even more money to help his family instead of chasing his dream, or found a way to do both, but he didn’t, he isolated himself and focused on what he wanted rather than what could of helped the world, so your point still stands.
@@reshramlove1547 TBF wasn’t he kinda doing that with how he was using that money on his portal project which he hoped would make him millions?
Extremely well spoken video highlighting flaws on both ends and growth on both ends. I think if weren't to see the Book of Bill or anything similar we would see him as even worse, though his growth was there it was slow. I am personally bias towards Stanley mainly because of his values and his willingness to do anything for his family, while for a long time, Stanford was the opposite. I do really think the ultimate sacrifice Stanley took changed Stanford drastically. But it didn't go through instantly, but it was the first quake in his self image. The Journal 3 shows this especially, with how he was willing to not be the center of everything. He was willing to take being a secondary person for someone that did something I don't think anyone else would try to do. Stanley's characterization was a criminal for a while. Until his family (Stanford) needed him, then he fakes his death and makes a new life, he does everything, and by that literally everything, he made enemies with the Government so fast restarting the Portal. I think Stanley's reaction in the final moments was very, precise, asking where his Thank you was, for taking almost 30 years of his life away for someone. After all the time they had back together, you think it would come up? It didn't and I think Stanley as much as he didn't want to admit it still felt the distaste he did for his brother that was rooted from the moment he got kicked out. Stanford's growth is wonderful, but I do think his growth is bolstered by the fact the two people who would remember the person he was, McGuckett and Stanley, both ironically had their memories wiped. While Stanford is a good person, or if not becoming one. But it's also a bit easer to be a good person to people that don't remember your bad deeds.
w mind electric use
Stanford really is the smartest, yet dumbest person on the face of Earth. But he's still a good character.
Great video and great analysis I like ford but he’s definitely made a lot of mistakes ford is smarter but when it comes to emotional intelligence that’s Stan after all he’s been through it makes sense but for ford even after traveling the universe he still doesn’t forgive him he only cares for himself he’s selfish and uses people for his benefit with Stan and mgucket ruining there life’s. Also crazy they called both of the twins to the office but only needed ford none of that would’ve happened if they just called ford
Time to act like Bill Cipher against all my enemies! 🤩
i love this video. thank you for this
Glad u enjoyed it!!!
Amazing analysis pookie ❤
Ty hime 🥹🥹🥹
I do agree Stanford is worse then mabel prove me wrong
Wonderful work! It's hard finding character analysis pieces that aren't voiced by ai. Your voice is engaging and I'd love a charcter analysis of stanley!
No bc tysm for this video, i'm hyperfixated on gravity falls right now so ive rewatched it (multiple times already) and with the revival of the fandom i see so many people being like IN LOVE with their romanticized versions of ford but tbh when i first saw him in the show when i watched it years ago i hated him😭after the end of weirdmaggedon and seeing what he wrote in journal 3 though (i just got journal 3 like a week ago im so happy abt it), i really appreciate his character and actually i've grown to like him. but seriously tysm for pointing out he was a bad person bc i feel like so many people overlook that just because they find him attractive😭😭😭
Cartoonshi: Ah $hit here we go again....
I still want that old man.
Stan is RIGHT there
I strongly disagree with many of your points, but I see where you're coming from.
Agreed
Your intro is super interesting to me because my experience is the complete opposite, I feel like most people (including Ford fans like myself) acknowledge his flaws, and that a lot of people also exaggerate them and blame him for things that aren’t really his fault. (WARNING: I was fooled by your white lie and I started writing this while watching to not forget any of the things I wanted to say so it’s probably harsher than it would’ve been if I wrote it after finishing the video, but I still think there are really important things that you missed)
Putting the TL:DR at the top: Stanford is a really complex character who has done a lot of shitty things, but reducing him to “a bad person” is just as much of a disservice to his character as saying he’s a fully fledged “good person” at *any* point of his character arc, and I think there’s a big difference between “I am important and better than everyone” and “I need to be better than everyone because if I don’t I’m nothing”
The way I’m writing this is mostly based on the order my thoughts appear as I’m watching this so keep that in mind.
Him still holding a grudge towards Stan for a mistake made 30 years ago would be rather petty and rude, if it wasn’t for the fact that Ford spent the last 30 years of his life *fighting for his life* because of said mistake. There’s also a similar thing with the science fair project, holding a grudge towards that makes more sense when you realize that Ford still thinks Stan did it on purpose, because Stan never told him it was a mistake. I think it’s way less “boohoo I couldn’t get into my dream school” and way more “my only friend, the only person I could trust my entire childhood, sabotaged me”
As for Fiddleford, calling him a victim feels a little bit like a bad faith argument. Yes, Ford treats him pretty badly several times during them working together, and calling his computer work “wasting his life” is really shitty (especially in retrospect knowing how big personal computers would become) but he did genuinely care for him, and tried to stop him when he found out about the memory gun. And Ford *also* thought the portal would be a step in the right direction for humanity, that’s not Ford lying to Fidds, it’s Bill lying to Ford. And yes, keeping it a secret that a creature in your dreams is giving you instructions is really bad, but Bill is actively using all of Ford’s insecurities against him to convince him he couldn’t trust Fiddleford. All that to say that the way Ford reacts when Fidds quits the project is really shitty, he dismisses his concerns, he insults him and his family, and actually uses the phrase “good riddance” (iirc), but it’s not Ford’s fault that Fiddleford uses the memory gun so much it destroys his life.
As for the portal interaction, yes it’s shitty that Ford is trying to use Stan after 10+ years of no contact, but he also believes that their universe as they know it is actively coming to an end. Those are stakes so high that I doubt anyone can fully comprehend that, but if I thought literally every person on the entire planet was about to become Bill Cipher’s new toys, I also think I’d have that as a top priority. And yeah that emphasizes the whole “why doesn’t he just rip the pages out” thing if the stakes are that high and he very much should have just ripped those pages out, but I think it has less to do with that he sees his work as “the most important” and more that he has been raised to believe that his only worth is his intelligence and what it can provide, and he has spent several years trying to create something that can “prove his worth”. I know this is more speculation, but I think Ford hoped that they could be modified to create a portal that didn’t lead to Bill. Also, very often you can’t use grant money for anything other than what it was given for, he likely couldn’t have helped his family with it without being in breach of some kind of contract.
When he puts down Stan and Fidds (which yes, he does, and it’s shitty) I think it’s more that Stan is frequently shown to be taking short cuts and act uncaring for the consequences of his actions. For Fidds I think it’s more complicated, because Ford obviously admires his engineering work, but seems to think that computers are too abstract or won’t be as useful for other things Fidds could make.
Then we get to how Ford acts when he’s back, and I agree that it’s shitty. A knee-jerk reaction when you see a person who hurt you for the first time in years is different from when you have time to process the fact that that person spent 30 years trying to save you. But I do think it’s a bit weird to act like the only reason Stan had for taking on Ford’s identity was to help him, when he has soo many faked identities over time and was actively on the run from the law and the Columbian cartel.
Ford probably didn’t take down the portal in the 80s because he was actively being tortured by Bill. Like full on actual physical torture. He was sleep deprived, and physically and emotionally exhausted, and iirc he at some point says that the portal is delicate work but that could be my brain making stuff up, idk. I don’t think he didn’t want to take down the portal (it’s the first thing he does when he gets back) I think he physically couldn’t.
For the Bill Cipher segment, I think you make a LOT of valid points, like how Ford is pretty willfully ignorant of Bill’s evil-ness (I think that “scientific curiosity” and “well people used to be really superstitious” could be arguments for why he summoned him, but they’re not super good I know) though it’s worth mentioning that Ford, beyond getting “special treatment” was also severely bullied (also special treatment from someone like Filbrick Pines probably looks less like a loving father and more like “I guess you can be useful” (you mention this later in the video I know)) but that still parallels with Bill as there are implications that he was treated poorly because of his eye too. My main issue with this segment however is the insistence that Ford thinks he’s better than people around him, when it’s pretty clear at least to me that he is deeply insecure. This may be more interpretation, but I think it makes way more sense to read Ford as someone who *acts* like he’s better than everyone because of those insecurities. Yes, that still means he puts other people down, which is still bad, but when it comes to Bill, I think it’s much more along the lines of “Ford wants to be important” than “Ford already thinks he’s important”. The consequences on the story are still basically the same, but I feel like it’s an important distinction.
The Ford being a horrible influence on Dipper is SO true though, and I’m glad people seem to be talking more about it. Ford projects his own relationship with Stan so hard onto Dipper and Mabel and, even if it’s unintentional, puts a wedge between them. Ford also projects his paranoia and toxic masculinity onto him which is Really Bad. My only comments is that I think it’s more of Ford seeing himself in Dipper than him trying to shape Dipper into a miniature him. Dipper already wants to be like Ford, he wants to go adventuring! And Ford doesn’t realize that’s probably not a good thing. The only other defense I have for him is that he literally hasn’t been in this dimension in 30 years and has a bad grasp of what children should be doing, though it’s a pretty bad excuse I know lol. Also people seem to forget that Ford likes Mabel, he just has less in common with her so he doesn’t spend as much time with her. Other than that, no notes.
About blaming Mabel, it was absolutely not in any way her fault, she was tricked by a master manipulator disguised as an ally, giving away something the importance of which was intentionally kept from her, and if anyone other than Bill should be blamed for Weirdmageddon it should absolutely be Ford (though it should be mostly blamed on Bill since it’s, you know, his idea) No notes.
About self isolation, that is 100% something he does, but he has also been heavily isolated against his will (because of bullying and because of Bill’s manipulation) a lot during his life, and it’s kind of hard to have character development when you’re trapped in a different dimension focusing purely on survival lol
I love the end of the video and I think it neatly summarizes a lot of his character though the implication that he hasn’t realized his actions have consequences *before* Stan has his memory erased is just straight up not true. He says he has made a huge mistake and is TERRIFIED of the consequences all the way back in the 80s when he contacts Stan. He has spend the last 30 years of his life trying to find a way to kill Bill and make up for his mistakes. Having to erase Stan’s mind is definitely a wake up call for him though, and the thing that makes him realize holding a grudge isn’t worth it.
After watching the full video, I think my main criticism is of your main argument, that Stanford thinks he is better and more important than the people around him. I think it makes more sense (and makes the story more compelling) to see him as a character who wants/feels the need to be better and more important, and who pretends to be so out of insecurity. Great video! Though your white lie got to me I very much enjoyed watching and writing this. I’d love to see a more in-depth analysis of Stan from you!
But he saved the town though
Stanleys better i don't care what you say
12:12 In the book of bill it told us that other people have summoned bill before ford. The point of bills character that he manipulates people to get what he wants. I dont really think we need evidence for that one but we see more specifically in the book of bill we see all other ways how hes manipulated people besides the main characters. He is the demon of ego every time we have seen bill get defeated it is because they put aside there ego. The first time we see Bill how he gets defeated is because dipper realized Grunkle Stan didn't hate him. Before this we see that his ego was hurt we see this represented by the hole in his body. But some might say that doesn't count because he found out by Grunkle Stan that he could do anything in the Mindscape.
My other example is actually the second time we see Bill get defeated. When Mable ruined her puppet show to save dipper he gets confused because most people wouldn't put aside there ego for something they worked very hard on like: her puppet show. I could go on and explain my point further but you should get what im saying.
Ooooo, I would love to see an analysis on Fagin or Sykes from the movie Oliver and Company!
I am going to cry
WOW that's new!
You are right
Ugh I been saying this- Stanford is a narcissist and he sucks
I love him but he’s just…no
❤😘
Third
Goated
engagement bait vid
Ford is morally grey??? Duh
0:22 first
W 🔥🔥🔥
I think a lot of people overlook that Mabel's only 12 years old
I don't think he is a "bad" person. Stanford is more misguided. He was driven to a single motivation by his parents.
The same that Stan was set to only intelligence instead of cash.
Stanford's parents literally taught both of them those things were the only thing good about him.
Like, yeah he did the wrong thing, but was he intentionally doing the wrong thing?
He was more doing what he knows to do.
He isn't really good or evil. He makes a lot of bad decisions, but he also tries to clean them up, and he doesn't try to deny it is all his fault. I can't see him as bad. Just misguided. We see that he tries to do better.
Oh you also blame Ford for things Bill tricked him into doing. Ford thought that they were going to save the world and cure cancer. That is what Bill told him to get him to take the deal. He wasn't lying. He was lied to.
Oh and Stan isn't thinking about himself at the portal. Or his brother. He is thinking about the evil that might be unleashed on mankind. The video is ok, but it gets a fair amount wrong and just makes a lot of weird assumptions of character motivations, feelings, and reasonings. Choosing to decide the most damaging instead of the more simple answer.
Ford isn't blaming Stan for what he did as a teen. He is blaming him for having it take his brother and best friend away.
You are attributing so much maliciousness into his actions. Instead of just realizing he is horrible with people. Calling him evil is nearly as toxic as calling Mabel evil.
Ford left his family because they were toxic? How does not supporting them make him evil?
They kicked out his brother ffs. Even if he doesn't know it he knew it was wrong deep down. His parents are terrible people
And yet you go to defend the family and call out Ford for it.
The more I watch the video the worse it gets.
You start basically disregarding reality to twist everything to fit your idea.
Agree lol
Speak your truth girl even if it hurts me
i don't hate Ford or think he's inherently a bad person (i think he would be without his personal growth though, even though he has no outright malicious intentions. maybe very very morally gray) but HOLY SHIT can we talk about how he chews stan out for not listening to his warnings BUT HE DIDN'T LISTEN TO WARNINGS EITHER.
the Ford we see in most of the story isn't. a healthy person to be in a relationship. during canon he knows he fucked up with mcgucket but he doesn't care enough or simply know enough to change how he acts with dipper.
i love Ford and though i disagree on some parts of the video, he's the definition of growing too big for his britches.
i don't think we should villanize him but we shouldn't ignore his many faults.
i could yap more about what makes him different from bill and so many things both criticizing and defending him but I've bored you enough
Stan: BROTHER I SAVED YOU!! 😭🥹
Ford: you trapped me there in the first place 🙄
Stan: it was an accident and I’ve been working ever since to bring you back 😢
Ford: 😠
Stan: you aren’t even going to thank me? Not even a hello? Do you know how much I did to be able to fix my mistake?
Ford: 😒
I just finished the show a week ago, and I was hoping to see people discussing Ford’s behavior but surprisingly, it seemed nobody dislike him, so thank you so much for this video, I love to people analyze Ford character like this you did a great job
Why is there THAT ford picture on 14:08?
HELP
That's a jumpscare
I feel like Ford is projecting his issues with Stanley onto Dipper. He sees Dipper as him, and Mabel as Stanley. He feels that Mabel will “hold dipper back” just like Stan did to him. He sees how smart dipper is, and he knows he has a bright future ahead, but to him, that also means that Mabel is a hinderance to Dippers progress. To ford, there are exceptional people, and then everyone else. Dipper is an exceptional person, Mabel is the everyone else.
No but like I low key realised this too- like as a kid I sympathized with him but as an adult I was like MAN he’s a freakin jerk-
Ford is a bad person and that's why I love him
Ayo?
"Don't worry, all the aliens have been dead for millions of years.....probably."
Ford is JUST as irresponsible as Stan is, just in different ways. Like in the Stanchurion Candidate when Dipper got the tie.
"YES yes, use it responsibly and all that..."
if theres no ford haters im dead
Personally, I don't think that Ford is necessarily a bad person, just deeply flawed. I do agree with a lot of your points though, this was a very well-crafted video! He has a lot of reasons to be that way, namely his parents and Bill, and that does not of course excuse the bad things he does, especially when he is reluctant to acknowledge his mistakes. Very good analysis!
Also, reflecting on what you said about Mabel being smart in her own way, I think that it was stated somewhere which drastically changed my opinion on the two pairs of Pines twins was that "Mabel knows in her core that Dipper’s quest for maturity is, in itself, immature. So whenever he takes himself too seriously, it is her duty...to keep him in that kid space where he should…"
Dipper was always there to support Mabel, just like Ford was always there for Stan, until one made a mistake that could never be fixed [Mabel directly causing Weirdmageddon, Stan destroying the science project]. But what I find interesting is that the Mystery twins' bond was able to overcome this. Despite the amount of times that Mabel has wronged Dipper [the sacrifices he's done for her, only for her to never pay him back, because when he picked up Mabel after the dream bubble, he didn't know that she handed over the rift], they were able to work together for the rest of the show. However, despite being older, more mature, more experienced, the Stans' just didn't seem to forgive each other until the last episode.
Wow this stanford analysis makes a lot of sense . I loved the video . 🎉 good job
I think both Stanley and Stanford golden childed Dipper, just in different ways. Stanley as well saw in him and his potential even though(personally) he was more similar to Mable. Even Mable seems to think herself is not as important as Dipper. Saying he’s the “family hero” and constantly putting him in the spotlight, “ your better then me at everything. Why won’t you let me have this one thing” in the episode Little Dipper. The same has what Bill does; in the Book of Bill he says that everyone loved him and he was so great. But as you look in the book and website “ even his lies are lies” he truly thinks his a monster. Since Alex Hirsch said Mable and Bill have a lot in common other than Mable not being a bad person unlike Bill.
From a literary stance, Ford is a classic example of the tragic hero. It's not just his ego, but his hubris which led to his downfall, but with a twist whereby he is given the chance to atone for his mistakes by the end. To quote McGucket in Journal 3: "Remember what happened to Icarus."
This is a fair criticism and character analysis of Stanford Pines. I would also like to add that the way Stanford was teased about his six-fingered hands have also played a role in his sense of self, as well as his isolation later in life.
Also keep in mind, in journal three, it’s revealed that Ford thought McGucket was taking advantage of HIM. His exact words were something like “I don’t want to be like Tesla was to Edison” when McGucket told him to publish his research
As much as I love Ford, I cannot deny that he did piss me off a lot.
14:08 "I did it, I saved the town"
EDIT: Also, the reasons Stanley became a conman in the first place are both survival and trying to make the fortune that his parents wanted, in the hopes of being accepted by his family again.
You wanna know something funny? The anomalous nature of Gravity Falls has nothing to do with other dimensions. The place is just a magnet for oddities. And Ford had an EQUATION for this.
… So summoning Bill wasn’t just a bad move, it was completely pointless.
Gott say, I love this video. you analyzed the mistakes and flaws of a character people defend religiously, and did it in a way that is not patronizing, does not have bullis**t points, or made everyone hate the character (I am still reeling from the Mabel is Terrible video from a decade ago).
Congrats on 111k subscribers 🎉🎉🎉🥳 just the other day celebrated 100k growing quick 🙌 let’s gooooo
Thank you 🥹🥹🥹
I mean ford was right about to kill Bill when Stan opened the portal, I’d be pissed too.
But he never took the time to explain to Stan what happend to cause him to get angry he would magically assume everyone would know everything he is going through without proper communication
Hes so heavily flawed. Little kid me thought he was so cool, but rewatching the show...he pissed me owf so badly.
Mabel may have technically started Weirdmageddon, but it really was not her fault.
How are you seriously going to blame a 12 year old over the triangle demon who had been trying to take over the multiverse for at the bare minimum, 1 billion years?
Just like how people are blaming Dipper for being manipulated by Bill
Personally I’m so glad to see a video like this cuz so many ppl have blamed Mabel for Dipper and Ford’s mistakes. And for what? I’m glad SOME part of this fandom has realized this cus they’re genuinely made it hard for me to even enjoy that show since it’s ending
But... he DID save the town though, albeit through unconventional means.
Yes, he is a dick, but that doesn't change anything, i still love him ^_^