I can vouch for the Norco Fluid HT. If anyone wants a modern hardtail, with excellent trail geometry that is worth upgrading, it is an excellent choice. I bought mine a year ago knowing that I was going to rebuild it with all of my favorite parts, and it has turned out to be the best mountain bike I have ever ridden. I removed all of the heavy parts, and created a really fast "down country" beast that can handle challenging trails, and also be raced cross country XC. The frame is surprisingly smooth for a hardtail, and with the short chainstays, the bike turns really well and is extremely playful. I am thrilled with this bike! Cheers from Arizona!
QR vs. Thru-Axle is really more about what people do with the bikes. Keep in mind that for the first few decades of mountain biking, thru Axle did not exist and people did just fine. For most consumers looking to hit green and blue trails and the occasional black trail, QR will do fine. If anyone is a hard rider, doing very high jumps and extreme games type tricks, or if they are a racer, needing the best front suspension available, then by all means, get a bike with the thru axle.
One point to make, if you can find a bike with good bones, you can build on it. Many brands use the same frame from entry level on up. Many say it isnt worth it, but there is also great value in learning bike mechanic skills. Those skills will save you more money in the long run. Just a different way to look at it.
Heck yea! If you got questions, let me know. Most the local bike shops will have good budget options. Daves Bike Shop, Elite Cycling, Bike Stop. They will have good entry level hardtails and treat you right.
I love how something is slightly better like thru axels and now it's trash if it doesn't have it. We all rode QR for decades without issue and preferred it for how easy it was to fix a tire. But I'm still the guy who says a dropper post is worthless unless you're doing true downhill (kansas city does not justify having one). I said what I said. lol
If I'm seriously sending it, I don't want QR, but that's just me. Like I said in the end, it's probably fine for ppl just riding mellow trails. I didn't have dropper when I first got the stache and I knew the first thing it needed was a dropper. Just my opinions
QR is tough with disc brakes because the alignment is not as precise as it is with TA. For that reason, I think it's worth it to go with TA. As far as a dropper post, it's very helpful for a shorter rider. It was a game changer for my wife. I also use my dropper a ton when I'm hauling my son around with the Kids Ride Shotgun seat. I rarely use it when I'm actually on MTB trails.
I agree that for easier trails, QR is capable enough. I have taken my cheap ass mtb down decents where i though i would meet the lord, but still alive and bike is still running. ( I would not recommend doing what i did thou☠😰) However QR is not as forgiving as thru axle, for really hectic trails you want something robust. As for the dropper, i havent even used that uet although my next bike will have it as i want to try harder trails
I purchased the Canyon 5 when they were using ALL brand name components (some are now unmarked). The rims are tubeless ready but need to be re-taped and then install tubeless tires and sealant. A great entry level bike for the sale price but their customer service was dreadfully lacking in component product knowledge for this model.
Yea, maybe so. I will be completely honest, I don't have any experience with QR on a mountain. Only thru axles. I guess I should have mentioned that. With the QR bikes, finding decent wheel upgrades could be problematic, though.
I've never had problems with rear QR but my front QR has given me issues multiple times. I think there's just too much flex in these small forks and it eventually works loose.
I have a 2019 Fluid HT2 and it's awesome, except mine has a 141mm boost qr hub on the rear. I was glad to hear they changed it to a 148mm thru axel on the newer models for the sake of their more recent customers lol. The 141mm hub they used was super cheap and would wear out before anything else on the bike and the only viable option for getting a new wheel is to build it yourself. So frustrating. I ended up building a new wheel with a Hope Pro 4 148mm hub using QR end caps to adapt it to 141mm.
I'm in the market for a 29er hardtail, with TA, dropper post, decent fork, 11/12 gears in the back, TR tires/wheels, and hydraulic disc brakes on a $500 budget. Unfortunately, people paid way too much for their bikes through COVID and they want too much for them now.
I'd have to agree. Prices are for sure coming down but still up there. That Norco for $900 is a pretty sweet bike. Look on Facebook market place and Pink Bike for nice used stuff. You'll find something.
With that budget, one option may be to get a GT Aggressor Pro and slowly add the upgrades or you can get something like a Schwinn Axum DP and again, slowly do the upgrades as you're able to. I ride an Axum DP that still has the stock wheels frame and dropper. I replaced the fork with a Manitou Air Fork ($300), changed the 8 speed derailleur with an 8 speed Microshift Acolyte ($37 which has a Spring Lock/Clutch), and replaced the cable actuated brakes with hydraulic Shimano MT 200's ($50). there are cheaper Air Forks that will do the job also like the Suntour Epixon that can be found for about $179. I saw a Royce Union bike for bout $379 that already had hydraulic brakes, clutch derailleur (11 speed I believe). All it needed was an Air Fork and dropper. It was a 2 X 11 but with that 11 speed cassette, easy to upgrade to a 1X.
@@LebronPhoto1 buying a frame thats incapable of fitting a tapered fork is a bad buy, and the geo of the GT is very XC with HTA..way better buys these days Kent trouvaille rollback 299 Ozark trail ridge 399 Giordano valor 460? Giordano intrepid 527 And something with tru rear axle, Poseidon norton 699
@@PghMtbRides those are all good choices but again, it depends on the rider and in what or how hard they ride or plan on riding in the future. Not everyone is going down double black diamonds. Some are just riding cross country.
@@LebronPhoto1 none od tbose are double black diamond, Just trail geo with XC travel fork...bjt can easily upgrade to 140mm . Its just getting hard to find straight steer tube forks Gt aggressor pro is expensive for what it is, can get better for the $$ is all I'm saying
What about Canyon stoic 2? Thru axles, AIR fork, 1x10 cues drivetrain (i think it's not bad), nice wheelset (Alexrims dp30 with schwalbe magic mary (front) and hans dampf (rear). It would be great if you noticed my comment. Sorry if my English is bad. Thank you! P.s. I also like this Norco on preview))
Talon 2 are all 2x drive trains, I have never seen a x1 version on any retailer that sells giant bicycles. Talon 1 and 0 have x1. Only thing is you can get a better bike than the talon 0(the highest version of the talon) at the talon 2's price point. There is however one problem, no dropper and still quick release. to be honest green/blu XC trails i dont think you need anything more than QR. you only start seeing thru axle with boost on bikes about above the 1000$ mark which is around the starting point for trail bikes. Giant bicycles just aren't great value . at the talon 0's price you can get a serious XC bike with thru axle and boost hub's or a entry trail bike. this is true even though the talon 0 is on special...
You can get boost spacing on a QR bike... it is called boost 141 or QR 141. BTW Boost does not make your setup stronger: actually holding everything else even a boost axle is weaker than a non boost axle... it is simply the through axle that is the upgrade. Shimano make boost 141 hubs... and if you want a full set of wheels hunt will sell you just about any of their mtb wheels setup that way (as I think will DT Swiss) Honestly you are going to have more problems getting QR 135 wheels.
Ah, fair enough. It's good to know there are some options out there for wheel upgrades. I know I'm feeling much better about getting rowdy with a thru axle, though. Thanks for the comment! It could help some ppl.
@TysRides I haven't seen much on BMX, but again, I'm not really in that scene anymore. Would be an interesting segment, even a series. You could break down the history of all those brands
Got a Hiland Conquerer 29in mtb for $320 from Walmart online. Aluminum frame, inner cable routing, Logan hydraulic brakes, Shimano 2x8 trans. Need someone more knowledgable to review it. It seems great to my untrained eyes, like a Talon 4 at less than half the $. Please review!
@@TysRides Stumpled across it myself just getting into a mtb and was considering the Ozark Trail but Hiland had better specs. I also own an older Trek 3500 and prefer the Hiland but I’m mostly a light trail rider and don’t understand most of the tech.
And I'm sure the bike performs great! It seems my QR vs. TA comments have started a few conversations. Again, QR is probably fine and will get the job done, but it could limit ppl a some if wanting to upgrade.
What would you recommend out of these bikes for somebody that doesn't do any real jumping just kind of hopping over bumps on the trail and mostly smooth their trails I'm a tall rider at 6 ft 1
Thank you. I know a little about Fuji but not Sava. Fuji makes nice bikes that are good value. I've never looked at their mountain bikes, though. Their gravel bikes are good value.
That wasn't my experience. I'm in Arizona and had no problem getting one shipped here. After purchasing it online, they even gave me choices of which bike shop to pick it up from.
@@TysRides both Polygon Xtrada 6 and Marin Bobcat Trail 5 are 1x11 versions. Marin has a slightly better tires. My brain is saying Marin but my hearth Polygon
Love me some Kona and Giant! Great bang for the buck. But there are so many budget options it's hard to just pick a handful. I've included Kona and Giant in many of my other videos.
the grand canyon is a big a scam in my opinion theres also the trail bikes ,the stoic which vary from prices and components the best bank for the buck bike in the price range would be a canyon stoic 2 air fork with 140mm travel shimano drivetrain etc. i own one and i ve bought it around the same price when the prices dropped in summer oh,and it also brings thru axles and bigger rotors
Gt aggressor pro can be out on that list now since Dicks upped the price to 800 lmao..all while still having 3x8 and straight steer head tube, 80mm fork and really old school XC geo
@@PghMtbRidesprobably yes But its still a crappy bike if you really want to learn how to hit the trails properly and have a really comfortable geomtry and long travel If u want a bike just for basic riding with the family get a cheaper one
@@justandrew231 with a fork upgrade its legit fine.. but theres so many 400-700 budget bikes out now that have actual trail geometry, with trail ready components like the kent trouvaille and Enclave Giordano valor and Intrepid, Ozark trail ridge, Poseidon norton And these bikes will take a long travel fork well(specifically the Poseidon 170mm yari)
I can vouch for the Norco Fluid HT. If anyone wants a modern hardtail, with excellent trail geometry that is worth upgrading, it is an excellent choice. I bought mine a year ago knowing that I was going to rebuild it with all of my favorite parts, and it has turned out to be the best mountain bike I have ever ridden. I removed all of the heavy parts, and created a really fast "down country" beast that can handle challenging trails, and also be raced cross country XC. The frame is surprisingly smooth for a hardtail, and with the short chainstays, the bike turns really well and is extremely playful. I am thrilled with this bike!
Cheers from Arizona!
Heck yea! That's sounds like a sick bike. I really like the look of that frame too.
QR vs. Thru-Axle is really more about what people do with the bikes. Keep in mind that for the first few decades of mountain biking, thru Axle did not exist and people did just fine. For most consumers looking to hit green and blue trails and the occasional black trail, QR will do fine. If anyone is a hard rider, doing very high jumps and extreme games type tricks, or if they are a racer, needing the best front suspension available, then by all means, get a bike with the thru axle.
I agree completely.
Eh ,it's really about perception of one being more figure proof
Bolt on axle, QR, TA, they'll all let you do the same thing .
One point to make, if you can find a bike with good bones, you can build on it. Many brands use the same frame from entry level on up. Many say it isnt worth it, but there is also great value in learning bike mechanic skills. Those skills will save you more money in the long run. Just a different way to look at it.
I love Norco bikes...I've got a full suspension VPS 6 from the mid 2000's. Built like a tank.
As my teacher back in 2017 , your a source I trust 🤘
Heck yea! If you got questions, let me know. Most the local bike shops will have good budget options. Daves Bike Shop, Elite Cycling, Bike Stop. They will have good entry level hardtails and treat you right.
That norco is tough to beat with the dropper at the sale price
I love how something is slightly better like thru axels and now it's trash if it doesn't have it. We all rode QR for decades without issue and preferred it for how easy it was to fix a tire. But I'm still the guy who says a dropper post is worthless unless you're doing true downhill (kansas city does not justify having one). I said what I said. lol
If I'm seriously sending it, I don't want QR, but that's just me. Like I said in the end, it's probably fine for ppl just riding mellow trails. I didn't have dropper when I first got the stache and I knew the first thing it needed was a dropper. Just my opinions
I will buy a bike, and I will ride with you
QR is tough with disc brakes because the alignment is not as precise as it is with TA. For that reason, I think it's worth it to go with TA. As far as a dropper post, it's very helpful for a shorter rider. It was a game changer for my wife. I also use my dropper a ton when I'm hauling my son around with the Kids Ride Shotgun seat. I rarely use it when I'm actually on MTB trails.
@@mikediederich579 Toxis is an old head. Afraid of new technology!
I agree that for easier trails, QR is capable enough. I have taken my cheap ass mtb down decents where i though i would meet the lord, but still alive and bike is still running. ( I would not recommend doing what i did thou☠😰) However QR is not as forgiving as thru axle, for really hectic trails you want something robust. As for the dropper, i havent even used that uet although my next bike will have it as i want to try harder trails
I purchased the Canyon 5 when they were using ALL brand name components (some are now unmarked). The rims are tubeless ready but need to be re-taped and then install tubeless tires and sealant. A great entry level bike for the sale price but their customer service was dreadfully lacking in component product knowledge for this model.
Their is nothing wrong with quick release every downhill bike in the last 25 years before thru axles rocked quick release
Yea, maybe so. I will be completely honest, I don't have any experience with QR on a mountain. Only thru axles. I guess I should have mentioned that. With the QR bikes, finding decent wheel upgrades could be problematic, though.
I've had QR axles on my mtb. They are noticably more flexy than thru axles.
I've never had problems with rear QR but my front QR has given me issues multiple times. I think there's just too much flex in these small forks and it eventually works loose.
You mad bro?
That's like saying there is nothing wrong with a rigid 26er because it was the standard in 1982.
I have a 2019 Fluid HT2 and it's awesome, except mine has a 141mm boost qr hub on the rear. I was glad to hear they changed it to a 148mm thru axel on the newer models for the sake of their more recent customers lol. The 141mm hub they used was super cheap and would wear out before anything else on the bike and the only viable option for getting a new wheel is to build it yourself. So frustrating. I ended up building a new wheel with a Hope Pro 4 148mm hub using QR end caps to adapt it to 141mm.
Yes, exactly! That's the negative to many of those bikes. I imagine that wheel situation was frustrating. Cool little solution you found.
Got the 2023 Marin Bobcat trail 5. It’s helluva beast for the price!
Hell yea!
I'm in the market for a 29er hardtail, with TA, dropper post, decent fork, 11/12 gears in the back, TR tires/wheels, and hydraulic disc brakes on a $500 budget. Unfortunately, people paid way too much for their bikes through COVID and they want too much for them now.
I'd have to agree. Prices are for sure coming down but still up there. That Norco for $900 is a pretty sweet bike. Look on Facebook market place and Pink Bike for nice used stuff. You'll find something.
With that budget, one option may be to get a GT Aggressor Pro and slowly add the upgrades or you can get something like a Schwinn Axum DP and again, slowly do the upgrades as you're able to. I ride an Axum DP that still has the stock wheels frame and dropper. I replaced the fork with a Manitou Air Fork ($300), changed the 8 speed derailleur with an 8 speed Microshift Acolyte ($37 which has a Spring Lock/Clutch), and replaced the cable actuated brakes with hydraulic Shimano MT 200's ($50). there are cheaper Air Forks that will do the job also like the Suntour Epixon that can be found for about $179. I saw a Royce Union bike for bout $379 that already had hydraulic brakes, clutch derailleur (11 speed I believe). All it needed was an Air Fork and dropper. It was a 2 X 11 but with that 11 speed cassette, easy to upgrade to a 1X.
@@LebronPhoto1 buying a frame thats incapable of fitting a tapered fork is a bad buy, and the geo of the GT is very XC with HTA..way better buys these days
Kent trouvaille rollback 299
Ozark trail ridge 399
Giordano valor 460?
Giordano intrepid 527
And something with tru rear axle, Poseidon norton 699
@@PghMtbRides those are all good choices but again, it depends on the rider and in what or how hard they ride or plan on riding in the future. Not everyone is going down double black diamonds. Some are just riding cross country.
@@LebronPhoto1 none od tbose are double black diamond,
Just trail geo with XC travel fork...bjt can easily upgrade to 140mm .
Its just getting hard to find straight steer tube forks
Gt aggressor pro is expensive for what it is, can get better for the $$ is all I'm saying
What about Canyon stoic 2? Thru axles, AIR fork, 1x10 cues drivetrain (i think it's not bad), nice wheelset (Alexrims dp30 with schwalbe magic mary (front) and hans dampf (rear). It would be great if you noticed my comment. Sorry if my English is bad. Thank you!
P.s. I also like this Norco on preview))
@@sanyanation1337 I missed that one. Sounds like a pretty good one for the money.
Trying to decide between the Norco storm two and use the extra $ for upgrades and the Canyon (stoic 2 or Grand Canyon 5)
What’d you decide on?
Superior bikes on bikes online have some good offerings now too. The 919 is right on par with the polygon xtrada 7.
I was able to find a slightly used Norco fluid 2. It checks all the boxes for spec. It's ready to go ride.
Hell yea!
Giant Talon 2 was just on sale where i live. Seems to get good reviews as an entry bike. Usually has a 1x drivetrain.
Talon 2 are all 2x drive trains, I have never seen a x1 version on any retailer that sells giant bicycles. Talon 1 and 0 have x1. Only thing is you can get a better bike than the talon 0(the highest version of the talon) at the talon 2's price point. There is however one problem, no dropper and still quick release. to be honest green/blu XC trails i dont think you need anything more than QR. you only start seeing thru axle with boost on bikes about above the 1000$ mark which is around the starting point for trail bikes. Giant bicycles just aren't great value . at the talon 0's price you can get a serious XC bike with thru axle and boost hub's or a entry trail bike. this is true even though the talon 0 is on special...
You can get boost spacing on a QR bike... it is called boost 141 or QR 141. BTW Boost does not make your setup stronger: actually holding everything else even a boost axle is weaker than a non boost axle... it is simply the through axle that is the upgrade.
Shimano make boost 141 hubs... and if you want a full set of wheels hunt will sell you just about any of their mtb wheels setup that way (as I think will DT Swiss) Honestly you are going to have more problems getting QR 135 wheels.
Ah, fair enough. It's good to know there are some options out there for wheel upgrades. I know I'm feeling much better about getting rowdy with a thru axle, though. Thanks for the comment! It could help some ppl.
GT was a premium bike when I was growing up. They made the best BMX bikes
I was a Dyno guy. Me and all my neighborhood cronies had Dynos, and for whatever reason, there was this stigma that GT was shit.
@TysRides that's funny cause Dyno was made by GT. Not sure when all that changed. I was a 90s kid
@TypicalGuy84 could have been. I didn't know what the hell was going on lol. I was like 12. I should research these old BMX brands and make a video.
@TysRides I haven't seen much on BMX, but again, I'm not really in that scene anymore.
Would be an interesting segment, even a series. You could break down the history of all those brands
@@TypicalGuy84 we're on to something here...
Got a Hiland Conquerer 29in mtb for $320 from Walmart online. Aluminum frame, inner cable routing, Logan hydraulic brakes, Shimano 2x8 trans. Need someone more knowledgable to review it. It seems great to my untrained eyes, like a Talon 4 at less than half the $. Please review!
@@rednroll1 I haven't heard of that bike. I'll check it out!
@@TysRides Stumpled across it myself just getting into a mtb and was considering the Ozark Trail but Hiland had better specs. I also own an older Trek 3500 and prefer the Hiland but I’m mostly a light trail rider and don’t understand most of the tech.
With Polygon you just have to check from time to time, or sign up for notifications. They replenish their stuff sometimes.
Good info, but when purchasing on line how do you have a chance to test ride?
@brentkasl6510 unfortunately, you might not be able to if you can't find the same bike in a shop.
My Trek XCaliber 8 2022 has TA up front with RockShox Judy and QR at the back. 😂😂😂
And I'm sure the bike performs great! It seems my QR vs. TA comments have started a few conversations. Again, QR is probably fine and will get the job done, but it could limit ppl a some if wanting to upgrade.
What would you recommend out of these bikes for somebody that doesn't do any real jumping just kind of hopping over bumps on the trail and mostly smooth their trails I'm a tall rider at 6 ft 1
Any of these bikes would be fine as long as the bike fits.
Ty I’m thinking of doing the Leavenworth Stay Fired up grinder as a test or warm up for Unbound, any thoughts?
Do it!!!
Nice video. Do you know anything about Fuji or Sava bikes? Are they good entry level bikes? Thanks.
Thank you. I know a little about Fuji but not Sava. Fuji makes nice bikes that are good value. I've never looked at their mountain bikes, though. Their gravel bikes are good value.
@@TysRides thank you so much.
Why is quick release a bad thing? Would happy to learn
I'm not sure it's necessarily a bad thing. Could just make it difficult if you ever wanted to upgrade the wheels. Most wheels are thru axle now adays.
You kinda forgot to mention Norco doesn't ship... so good luck to anyone outside Vancouver or Denver.
My bad. I got a local shop here in KC that deals Norco. At least they did a few years ago.
That wasn't my experience. I'm in Arizona and had no problem getting one shipped here. After purchasing it online, they even gave me choices of which bike shop to pick it up from.
So how do i get around the quick release axels?? I can do the swaps and stuff thanks can I buy new hubs?? ❤❤
You can upgrade the fork to one with a thru axle if the you have does not come with one but for the rear I am not sure you can.
I'm lucky I'm 5ft 9in I can get small I like 27.5 but can ride up to 29er
Pls respond but how do I use the Moro website my zip code says there’s no dealers in my area
@@yaqubkebre683 might not be any dealers in your area...
@@TysRides I’m getting the storm 2 instead so
Norco
Mongoose
Jamis
GT
what would you pick between Polygon Xtrada 6 and Marin Bobcat Trail 5?
I'd take either!
@@TysRides damn, I'm literally fighting vs myself regarding a choice between these two.
@@dejnou6012 are they both available? Like both in stock?
It looks like the Polygon is a little cheaper. But I do like that the marin uses a 1x drivetrain. I like 1x for mtb.
@@TysRides both Polygon Xtrada 6 and Marin Bobcat Trail 5 are 1x11 versions. Marin has a slightly better tires. My brain is saying Marin but my hearth Polygon
what's wrong with quick release?
I believe not as strong and limiting when wanting to upgrade wheels. Most nice wheels are thru axle.
Nothing
@@TysRides What is nice?
Nothing wrong with QR, been used for ages.
you forgot kona and giant options.
Love me some Kona and Giant! Great bang for the buck. But there are so many budget options it's hard to just pick a handful. I've included Kona and Giant in many of my other videos.
Did you wrestle ?
Yes, I wrestled in HS and have been a HS coach for 12 years.
Just get the posiden norton. It beats all of these bikes for the money.
the grand canyon is a big a scam in my opinion
theres also the trail bikes ,the stoic which vary from prices and components
the best bank for the buck bike in the price range would be a canyon stoic 2
air fork with 140mm travel
shimano drivetrain
etc.
i own one and i ve bought it around the same price when the prices dropped in summer
oh,and it also brings thru axles and bigger rotors
Gt aggressor pro can be out on that list now since Dicks upped the price to 800 lmao..all while still having 3x8 and straight steer head tube, 80mm fork and really old school XC geo
@@PghMtbRidesprobably yes
But its still a crappy bike if you really want to learn how to hit the trails properly and have a really comfortable geomtry and long travel
If u want a bike just for basic riding with the family get a cheaper one
Based on the specs you just mentioned, it sounds like that is a great value.
@@TysRides sure is,i have it and runs like a charm
@@justandrew231 with a fork upgrade its legit fine.. but theres so many 400-700 budget bikes out now that have actual trail geometry, with trail ready components like the kent trouvaille and Enclave Giordano valor and Intrepid, Ozark trail ridge, Poseidon norton
And these bikes will take a long travel fork well(specifically the Poseidon 170mm yari)
Theres absolutely nothing wrong with quick release at this price point. Lol wah
For sure. Could just limit someone if they wanted to upgrade wheels at some point.
That's nice but our country has a 27% VAT so none of these bikes are under 1000$
Yeh but you get 27% more.... Value!
I have watched a ton of these and you all vote on different bikes kind of makes you wonder who's paying the bills for your channels
I have a question
Can you tell me If the Rose Bonero 1 is good??🙏
I wish I could. I'm honestly not aware of that bike.
@@TysRides Can you please search it??