$150 WoodRiver vs $350 Lie-Nielsen Hand Plane
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- Опубликовано: 2 мар 2018
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Over the holidays I bought a WoodRiver No. 4 Smoothing Plane. In this video I unbox it, clean it up, sharpen the blade and see how it does against my Lie-Nielsen Bronze No 4.
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Great vid! Thanks for taking the time to make it. I actually work at L.N. I can tell that the management team is the best I've worked with. Its amazing that such a small work force acomplishes so much. Many times at our morning meetings it is expressed to us quality first- in every step. Every tool- the amount of pride we carry daily is awsome- L.N. tools are certainly are pricy out of the gate. However they are made for the wood worker that makes a liveing with them, one and done- If your ever in the little town of Warren, Maine you should stop by and ask for a tour and meet the folks at L.N. Great folks-
If I'm up there, will do!
My grandfather works there and it’s an awesome place.
I am fortunate enough to live about 1 hour or so from LN...every time I walk in there everybody is so friendly and helpful. If you buy LN Not only are you buying the best, but you are also buying something made in the US... Not in China like the Wood River is.
I bought WoodRiver #4, #5, #7 on sale several years ago, and was never very happy with them. The soles were flat at least, but the blades were more warped than a potato chip, and impossible to flatten (even just the leading edge). I ended up eventually throwing out the blades and buying some lie-nielsen replacement blades. Should've just bought the whole lie-nielsen planes instead. Also, the extreme play in the adjusting wheel was enough to drive me to distraction. Glad to see i'm not the only one.
I'm of the school of thought that a good hand tool is a multi-generational tool. I prefer to amortize a Lie-Nielsen over that period of time. I get that budget is always an issue. But, I hate buying a tool and then upgrading the same tool later as my income allows. I'd much rather just save a bit longer and get exactly what I want.
I hear you.
Hi Chance, I agree wholeheartedly. Not only is it better to buy the Lie-Nielsen for short term use, but it will also last forever, and is SOOOOO beautiful to look at and hold. NO other tool I ever used function as well as my Lie-Nielsen's.
Life is too short.. i was there and i dont want to be there anymore 🔭
Sometimes ones budget doesnt allow one to buy the superior tool. I got the woodriver and it does need the sole flattened and the blade as well very little on the back. Once I honed the blade up to 8000 grit on my Japanese water stones I can literally shave my face with it. I needed it to get a job done and it surpassed my needs. I do guitar repairs and also build guitars. I dont mind fiddling with the adjustment knob an extra minute or two. Dont gete wrong once my budget allows I am getting the Lie-Neilson. Then I can use my Woodriver for other jobs I wouldnt use my Neilson for.
@@Fazman81 what planes do you use for your guitar making? I'm about to do my first guitar build and am wondering if a couple of planes would help in the process. Thanks!
If I were in a production shop, the Lie-Nielsen would definitely be worth the money. As a hobby wood worker, the Wood River is by far a better deal for me. I don't mind playing with the plane. To me, that's half the fun.
Likewise, I have only just started out as a hobby and using a rusty old Stanley No.4 I inherited from my grandfather. I have cleaned it up as best I can and it does 'ok' but I really don't know if I will be doing this hobby enough to warrant forking out to replace it and if so to replace it with a super-duper LN or to spend the same money on several more budget tools.
@@alistairfrith7772 The my grandfather said the old Stanley's (Bailey's) are excellent planes. Here in my country (Brazil) the wood workers seek for theses planes in antique shops as seeking gold in gold mines - sometimes the prices are higher than the brand new premium planes by Veritas or Lie Nielsen.
Unfortunately we have no access to the good tools... The taxes and shipment, plus the rate of the US Dollar turn impossible to have the good stuff available outside...
The current Stanley planes are important from India and are horrible, shameful pieces, and are expensive for what they are. Not worth what they weigh
Even without understand what the guy speaks in the video of the link bellow, you will understand how ridiculous are the current Stanley planes imported to Brazil from India.
ruclips.net/video/QSdqcQ0B6wk/видео.html
I've never been a professional woodworker, nor do I aspire to be. But from my days when I was a professional carpenter, my main criterion for any tool was whether it would pay for itself. As a hobbyist, my criterion is whether a tool gives me pleasure. My old, contractor grade Stanley #4 planed a lot of doors for ~$30.00. My Lie-Nielsen #4 1/2 won't make me a dime, but it's worth every penny.
I have the WR 5 1/2 and its very to use. But I can't wait to get my hands on LN as well. I have vintage stanley planes that do the job just fine and are my goto's.
I own the WoodRiver #4 and I love it and recently I’ve been able to use the #4 Bronze and what a difference but for 200 dollars more I would hope so and with my 2 cents I will say this after I get a #7 or 8 I will be upgrading to the #4 Bronze. Awesome video
It's fascinating how differently each person approaches their woodworking and tools they decide to purchase and I think there is no wrong answer. I'm essentially a weekend warrior hobbyist, and for that reason I typically buy the best tools available. I prefer to spend my time using great tools that I rarely have to make modifications to use. For me, it makes my limited time in the shop more enjoyable. Thanks for the review, I'll be going with the Lie-Nielsen.
I’m the same way. I did buy a woodcraft #6 and it’s great. But I’ll buy Lie-Nielsen eventually for my smoother
Wood River planes are great. Varitas planes are great. Lie- Nielsen planes are great. Go with what you can afford, or wait a little longer to save for the better ones. Either way, it’s YOUR tool and you can purchase whichever one you please. They’re all good tools worthy of ones shop.
Excellent review, Mathew.
Thank you, Steve!
My work will never be of a standard or quantity to warrant a Lie Nielsen, but that doesn’t mean I don’t appreciate its beauty and quality. If I was in better health and I had long enough ahead of me to achieve the standards the Nielsen deserves I wouldn’t hesitate to buy one.
To me that was an extremely fair comparison, and you pointed out what you had or hadn’t done. A brilliant video and that’s me subscribed.
I love that kind of tools
So nice to use
WOW, great video dude, answered all my questions. Watched the Lie-Nielsen start to finish hand plane manufacturing video. It looks to me like their planes are worth every penny.
Thank you for your review. I know price concerns are valid. One makes a choice. A woodworker must decide on the trade offs between the two and the use of the tool. Each of the two has its own value.
Good video and thanks. I own Lie Neilson planes and they worked straight out of the box and a joy to work with. I'm a pro woodworker but understand the average woodworker going with the Wood River due to price.
Have many planes, Lie Nielsen have lasted me over 20 years of hard use and still perform day in and out, worth the money. Made in Maine then hope they are still.
Interesting comparison. I do have both those planes. Well, close. I have both the Woodriver 4-1/2 and the LN 4-1/2 (not the bronze).
The LN needed the edges of the sole honed slightly due to the sharp edge, just as the WR did. Both needed the blades sharpened. The adjuster of the WR had more backlash than the LN, but it really isn't an issue for me personally. The weight difference between the two, if any, was insignificant. The chip breaker on both needed a tiny bit of work to make it flat to the blade, we're talking less than a minute for each. The blade of the WR had a small area in one corner that required me to take off about 1/64 from the front edge before first use. The LN blade was pretty flat, but the front edge of the back was low by about .001" for 1/32 or so that required me to spend quite a bit of time on the back to flatten it. (yes, I'm well aware of how many will say how insignificant that is, but so be it)
Bottom line (for me) after getting both planes is the condition I'm happy with, the surface finish of the wood, the ease of use, and the thinness of a shaving I can take is identical between the two. I'm sure I'd be able to sell the LN for pretty much what I paid for it, and not the WR, but other than that and what I outlined above, either is capable of top quality work for generations.
Looks like right now the wood river is $200 for a China plane, veritas is $230 (Canada), and a lie nelson in Iron is $300 (usa)
Whats the lifespan of a Lie-Nielsen? 60, 70, 100, 200 years? Let's say 100 years, and we know that it can last longer. At $300, it comes down to barely reaching a quarter..that’s right...25 cents cost per month of use. You help the USA. You feed an American family, and makes you feel awesome being patriotic. So where is the downsize? And its a beautiful work of art masquerading itself as a tool!
@@Wateringman thats a rare line of thinking in the US. Pretty much everyone balks at me for not buying throw-away garbage.
"you spent how much on a knife?!"
"$80"
"dude you could have bought, like, 10 (insert china brand here) and just use a new one whenever they get dull. And you still have to oil it?!?"
Nevermind that I would have to worry about shitty "surgical stainless" chipping every other cut, or bending, or the lock/hinge failing, or the fact that my dollars stayed in america.
Damn it all I need the convenience of no maintence or responsibility.
Just finished honing the iron on a Stanley No. 4, its okay but I want a LN. I have multiples of 3,4,5,6,7,8 and made a nice till for them. My next shop project is a nice tool cabinet so I plan on thinning the heard. I think I will sell all and get a LN 4 1/2, 5 1/2 and a 7. I never use the 3, 5, 6 and 8 Stanleys anyway. Thank you for the review!
Hello, I have a No. 4 Wood River plane. What I noticed upon comparison with the Lie-Nielsen plane is that the Wood River blade is thinner and generally of a lesser quality than the Lie-Nielsen blade. So I slapped a Lie-Nielsen blade in my Wood River plane, and I’ve been quite happy with the results to date.
The fact that the Woodriver even came close to comparing to the Bronze Lie-Nielsen is impressive at that price point! Thanks for the video!
I never had any LN but I have a few Stanley Bailey, Veritas, and WR. Never had to do any fine tuning on the WR or Veritas. I am very happy with both brands and will buy more of WR and Veritas. I have heard about a few issues with WR so I don't think the quality control is as good but so far I haven't had to deal with it. As you said there is a lot of backlash with the adjuster but it doesn't make it any harder to dial in the depth of cut I want, just remember that the wheel is bigger so you don't have to turn is as much.
When you buy what l consider the best ( Lie Nielsen)you have a heirloom quality product that you'll have the rest of your life as well as the next generation. I've used my father's planes quite a bit these last few months and it always brings me a sense of satisfaction knowing I'm carrying out his tradition of fine carpentry work sence his passing.
Curious if you have tried the Bridge City 12 inch plane. I can't get it to work as well as my Lie Nielsen planes. I am far more familiar with wood lathes than hand planes....
Merica! Nice overview. I love my ln stuff.
Me too. Also my Veritas planes are good too.
Your gear page is #404 error. Curious about that honing guide you use. Which model? Amazon link?
Thanks for the comparison. As I write this in early 2023 the Wood River #4 is up to $215 and the Lie-Nielsen #4 (iron version) is $340, so the difference is down to $125. Another difference between them is the iron in the Wood River plane is "high carbon" steel whereas the L-N plane has better quality & harder A2 steel. You can buy an A2 iron for the WR plane, but it will add another $70 to the price. If the difference in irons is significant to you it may make the decision easier.
I've seen several RUclipsrs compare these two planes but no one ever includes a vintage Stanley #4 to see how it stacks up. Many woodworkers have had some experience with the Stanley's and adding one to the mix would give them a good point of reference. Especially comparing the Stanley to the Wood River in areas like depth and lateral adjustments, ease or difficulty in sharpening, and edge retention.
Would love to see that too! Let me know when you have it up. Would love to watch!
Of the three, to me, there is no ultimate performance difference. I am not a beginner, though, and can fix or work past any faults in a stanley plane.
I have the bronze LV. I wouldn't buy a WR based on principle, and the smoothing plane that's in my bench is a 1960s or 1970s stanley 4. I have replaced the iron with one that I made, but it's just an O1 iron. In most cases, that's not necessary, but the round top stanley irons are pretty poor for any difficult wood.
I don't use the stanley to be contrary, I use it because i prefer it, and that includes using it for work where the plane is making a finished surface.
I'm with you on not buying the WR on principle. I use Stanley's along wooden planes I build myself.
I have both a Vintage Stanley #4 Sweetheart and the LN #4 bronze, both are great. The fit and adjustment of the LN is superior. I have the Stanley set up to take a deeper cut and the LN for final smoothing.
A stanley 4 in capable hands is as good in any wood, and for significant amounts of work, nicer to use because it's lighter. Anyone who says that a stanley 4 can't match an LN probably needs to learn to use the cap iron to control tearout.
I find the better vintage irons preferable to A2 irons, but someone who takes 6 minutes to sharpen (and therefore tries to avoid it as long as possible probably does not).
When i first started woodworking, I could make the LN planes dull before I was tired. After learning to set the planes up more properly, all of the decent irons (including vintage) wear me out physically and go through a much larger volume of wood.
Is that a wooden faucet over the top of a sink for your stones?
Have many LN tools . WR is a good way to go if one is on a budget . I/ve had their metal low angle black spokeshave for 11 years and it is an excellent tool for the %$$
I have a wood river #4 it is my primary plane. It works perfectly fine once I made some adjustments. I noted the sole edges were very sharp and would scratch the wood. I ground them down. That fixed the problem. Other than that I is a great plane and I don't see any need to upgrade it. I sharpen to 1000 grit and it planes ash oak and cherry without issue. I certainly have seen worst planes. The wood river is a professional grade tool and will get the job done. I make 30,000 a year before deductions and work in a shed without air conditioning or heating and a red mud floor. I can't afford to drive a Mercedes-Benz but my beat up 2000 Buick drives just fine. So if you do something for society more important than me and you somehow make enough money to burn get a lie Neilson by all means get yourself one. But if you are like me get a wood river and get to work.
I like your style
What about a vintage Stanley?
@@mikehermesmeglio those are great but they either require a lot of work, or cost just as much as a woodriver when in prime condition
The Wood River is a decent plane and with a little fettling can achieve easily as good results as the Lie Neilson. I can get sub 1000th shavings with mine and the finish achieved is no different to the highest end tools available. The skill of the user is the limiting factor not the tool.
no. ddont get a WR, because what you are missing here is this-a good amount of them are straight up garbage for the price. the machining is so loose the blade and chip breaker slide around while doing adjustments. its so frustrating to use I just pulled the trigger on a custom 5 from veritas to replace it. at 250$, why chance getting a plane that doesnt function? pay a little extra, get a premium 0lane that doesnt have functionality issues, and also remember you pay for customer service. none of my veritas or lie nielson service issues were more than a call away to solve. WR on the other hand has zero customer service. So if you want a tool whose warranty will outl8ve you-buy lie nielson or veritas. you pay for the quality in tool and service, but you will never be stuck with a 250$ boat anchor.
I think the most important questions to ask are, What was the quality of the surface of the board after it was planed? To me I could care less if I am taking .001 or .0015 shavings.
Quality on both was similar, but I believe you will reach it faster with the Lie-Nielsen.
Agreed! I have never measured the shavings coming off my hand planes. I am more interested in the wood I am keeping not the scraps.
Quality of a surface has more to do with how well you have sharpened your blade and fine-tuned your hand plane. The problem with most tool comparisons is that the most important variable the skill of the user is never taken into account. The lateral adjustment was, for instance, a good one to compare but not the thickness of your shavings.
@@snowwalker9999 Shaving thickness may make a difference - if you are planing out snipe left after a planer or planing so well that you can do away with sanding.
@@emm_arr Thank you but that wasn't my point.
Many years ago, when I didn't know much about hand planes, I purchased a Clifton no. 5 plane. It was advertised as being ready out of the box, and this was true. Since then I now have more than a dozen hand planes, all are original Stanley-Baileys. I have learned how to refurbish them, some now have Hock blades. This is a viable alternate to both saving money and having a proven quality tool as well. Along the way you will learn all you need to know about hand planes.
Great review Matthew, as you mentioned LN comes in ready, and is fine tuned. I don't own either of the two models, but I believe both will top an old Stanley.
Sam K ummm that’s not necessarily true. I own several different Plane makes and models and I wouldn’t say one is “better” than the other. It’s all in how you prepare, sharpen and use them.
bigscreen bird, I demand "that you always agree with everything I say, every letter...." :)
Thanks, Sam! Never owned an older refurbished plane so I can't talk to that point.
Matthew, it's interesting how there are so many variables, during planing. I think trying different planes, wood types, and techniques, make for a real fun experience.
bigscreen bird, I do agree with you, I was just being cheeky. Just subscribed to your channel, great content brother. Cheers.
Sam K well damn you got me there!
I bought L.N. And have never had a problem in 10 years. Cuts like a dream and feels good in the hand. I never have a problem getting the blade to cut .001 or thicker if I want. I own about 12 planes of varying sizes and each is an investment that makes pay back easy. I’m sure Wood River is well worth the money but when you plan and save you can eventually get the best. I can see the care that went into making my planes and I want to buy from an American company that takes pride in their products. I’ve never looked back.
I have a Qiangsheng which I believe comes from the same factory. It’s the best plane I have and the tote is so comfortable. I have Veritas tools which are all great. Backlash in the Qiangsheng is a lot less than a Stanley. I use power tools so spending even more on a plane is not justifiable. What do most woodworkers use a numbe 4 for? They probably buy wood ready thicknessed or use a thicknesser. I view the Qiangsheng as a Stanley to better tolerances, and a Leigh Neilsen as a luxury item.
The world of planes is a fascinating one. Personal experience and expectations play the leading
part in buying just the right tool.
Video,s on this topic are very handy and can just give you that push in making the right decision
to purchase "your tool"
For me the Lie Nielsen planes are simply the best in every aspect, performance, construction, finish, appearance and last but not least "the right feel" They are a joy to use and .......... more.
One,s definitely not getting a factory-made feel in using their heirloom planes. They almost have personality which is what I"m also trying to achieve in making my woodworking projects.
I think that's the ultimate goal for us all.
Until now I have never regretted the purchase of any Lie Nielsen plane I own.
Definitely love them over my other makes of planes.
It may prove me tragically, irredeemably nerdy or weird, but I find a great amount of satisfaction and time for reflection in doing meticulous tasks like honing, sharpening, or polishing. I could probably make a business of dressing/sharpening planes, chisels, and saws if there were a market for it. I'd probably go for that Wood River over Lie-Nielsen.
Having established some superiority of the $350 Lie-Nielsen over the Wood River, the question in my mind is how does the well-tuned Wood River compare to a comparably tuned old Stanley or Stanley clone available on the used market for $20 or so. My own cabinet is full of 80 to 150 year old Stanley tools with which I have no complaint though I admit to replacing several original blades with thicker Hock or equivalent blades. I realize your purpose was to compare these two offerings but the third alternative is one for novices to consider.
I just ordered the lie Nielsen bronze # 4 plane. I'm glad your video agreed with my purchase, can't wait to start working with it.
I own the Woodriver #6 and 4 1/2. Never had a days problem with adjusting to get a fine shaving from either plane.... here is Aussie the Lie Nielsen is worth $700 + for the # 6 and the Woodriver is $430 so a #300 dollar difference I was then able to get the # 41/2 woodriver also.... if I could have afforded the LN there yeah I would but it but the WR do a great job and give a great result and I can buy two for the price of one and have a big smile on my face :)
I bought a WR # 4. There was a gap of .0.06” in between the chip breaker and the cutter. I believe WR should have better quality control if they want to compete with LN. What’s your thoughts?
I think that is why they are $200.00 cheaper! The purpose of this comparison was not to present the LN and the Wood River as equals. It is MUCH MORE likely that you will find this type of issue in Wood River.
When you say play do you mean backlash? Because thats not an issue always wind the blade up to set. If you are taking too thick a shaving wind passed and then wind it back up to the desired set.
Nice comparison, Matthew
Thank you sir! See you have been going all around the country again. Having fun?
Jesus, man, the Wood River #4 is $200 today. Should’ve started earlier!
Would you be willing to do a comparison with one of the wooden handplanes you made? I have always wondered how good they are compared to a ironplane... Someday I would like to make some of those you made.
Great idea! I've added it to my list of videos to make. Thank you!
Stanley No. 4 with an L-N Iron.
I bought the WR a couple years ago to start my collection, then found a LN on craigslist a few weeks later. I sold the WR and now all of my planes are LN. The WR planes are really decent, but I hate tuning tools. If I wanted to tune hand tools I'd buy vintage stanleys. I'd much prefer to work wood.
Glad you like your LN planes!
I'm the same way man. I'm not a tool snob nor am I very patient lol. What little extra time I do have I definitely don't want to spend working on a tool so I can work with the tool...
Because of my circumstances, I have access to a lot of very difficult wood, so I got a Lie-Nielsen #5 with a middle-pitch (55 degree) frog. Without touching up anything other than the iron, and with the mouth set somewhat wide, I can plane end-grain with ease. And I'm a long, long, long way from being a hand-plane pro, and my sharpening is probably pretty sketchy, too.
Because block planes can cause my hands to cramp up really badly, I'm thinking of getting a #1 or #2. I keep looking at the Woodriver #1 on Amazon, and I just can't bring myself to do it. Why drop $170 for something that _might_ work, when I can bite the bullet, spend the extra $100, and get something that I know _will_ work?
que tipo de piedra de afilar es y que grano es.
What kind of bench you using?
Lie-Nielsen
Great video! Thank you.
The difference between the China planes, like Wood River, and those like Lie Nielsen, Veritas, and Clifton is the following:
A) The China planes, like Wood River, are created with an accountant mindset leading the way from design to materials and production. The rationale here is "How can we make hand planes that will maximize profits while competing with the gold standard planes of Lie Nielsen, Veritas, and Clifton?"
B) Lie Nielsen, Veritas, and Clifton planes by contrast are created with a craftsman mindset leading the way from design to materials and production. The rationale here is "How can we make the best hand planes possible?"
It's not that Lie Nielsen et al are unconcerned with making a profit or reducing costs when possible -- every business on the planet must make a profit to exist. The difference is that those concerns are not the primary motivation for Lie Nielsen et al in creating their products, so much so that they will not compromise quality for the sake of reducing costs.
China planes by definition have already made those cost-reduction compromises to quality by having them made in China...because it's always cheaper to produce pretty much anything in China. The drop in quality necessarily follows, which is then offset through marketing. It's all by design. And that is the accountant mindset.
Thankfully, we have choices. I choose to buy my tools from companies that produce their products from beginning to end with the craftsman mindset.
Verry good!
Considering the LN in the top notch category I prefer you support workers in the USA.
Although WR planes are made in China, Woodcraft is an American company employing American workers. When I buy from Woodcraft I support workers in my local community.
These WRs are up to $215 now. I was going to pull the trigger on one, but for $75 more, I might as well just get the LN.
in Canada, these Woodrivers are more expensive than both Veritas and Lie Nielsen, it makes no sense.
I have flea market Stanley planes that I've spent hours tuning, still don't compare to a lie Nielsen out of the box. I have the LN smoother, and the huge LN jointer, along with the LN chisel set, NOTHING compares well, maybe the Veritas PM-V11 Bench chisels, they're pretty nice too... edges even outlast LN chisels when chopping out dovetails.
Must be rich
@@kd9856 If you use your tools enough you'll buy the better tools, otherwise you'll spend all your time sharpening. I'll take an American made tool over a Chinese tool any day! There is no comparing Chinese Wood River planes or chisels to Lie Nielsen. Japanese chisels are a different story. You get what you pay for with these two brands.
Thanks for running this comparison. I'm a hobbyist, and I'm not very interested in overspending - most my tools a inherited or vintage and restored, but this helps me feel good about my plan for my jointer to be a LN. I'm in no rush to get one and if I buy new tools, I like them each to be the last of its kind that I ever buy. If I needed one sooner, I'd get an old no. 7 or 607 and restore it, but only in the service of ultimately saving towards the LN.
If you wanna get seriously fine shavings upgrade the blade to the cosman ibc Plane iron. It made the difference you wouldn’t believe. I can easily get 1/4 thou shavings and still $125 less than Lie Nielsen. Btw I own Stanley’s, Veritas and woodriver planes and they all work amazingly well for me. I have used a LN plane and they are indeed superior quality but not any better than the planes I have already. I think it al comes down to budget.
I think any of the high level planes made today will give you great results. Yes, a good blade and chip breaker make a lot of difference.
The trouble with this philosophy is resale. If you decide you want out of this hobby, LN planes will probably return your nominal investment. Blade sets and chinese planes will not. That's without principle (but principle is for all of us to choose).
(not to mention, you're comparing a steel plane vs. a bronze plane - the comparison price level for LN is $300 for the iron plane).
If a user can't get fine shavings out of any plane (including a 1970s stanley, which is probably the worst of the worst when you account for blade quality) that's not complete junk, it's more of a user issue. If a user thinks that an iron doesn't hold an edge long enough, aside from absolutely defective irons, it's a user issue (too thin shavings where they shouldn't be thin, too long of a time for a sharpening cycle - also correctable).
David W Another fool who knows NOTHING about tools . Stanley the worst of the worst? Clueless just plain clueless.
I use Stanley exclusively, my grandfather used them all his woodworking life, handed them down to my father, who handed them down to me. They have always been kept in immaculate condition and I would put any one of them against your LN's any day. But that's just me...
Hi! It is well known that the Wood River planes have to go through a kind of "Set-Up-Procedure" when they come from factory. There is a video about it on the web. These 40 minutes (i just got a 51/2) are a one-time-procedure that also helps you to get into the mechanics of the tool. Once recognized how many play there is at the "blade-screw" (deepness), it is easy to change quickly between in and out - ok, a little bit of time for getting familiar with it is needed. It is known as well, that Lie Nielsen try to sell their planes to work right out of the box. But as well a LN plane needs to have a little bit of play on the deepness screw. it would have been nice to watch the difference in that play on the video. At my WR 51/2 it is about 1/3 of a round and never changes. The LN are outstanding perfectly machined and finished tools and they even look awesome; but if you remember that, after you have plained, the surface of any wood will start working again and winter-years will come out time after time, so i ask myself if the difference of 1/0005 is worth the price of two WR-block-planes? (But - if i would earn lots of money with creating mostly handmade furniture - i would surely go for LN) - Ahhh ... i see that this article is 2 years old, WR have changed the design of their planes up to V3 now. Could make a difference!
The wood rivers are also 100 more dollars now.
I think I'll stick with my second hand Stanley planes here. For $350 a plane had better push itself!
They do the same job. An old restored stanley gives you same results. Plus it is all about good tuning.
@@mohammadismail4584 mostly it is in how you sharpen the iron. Get a plane iron sharp enough and it'll do the business.
@@1pcfred could not agree more. I have a bunch of Stanley's which I restored recently. Nos 4 (actually three of them), 5, 6 and 7. They all work like charm. I can get super thin shavings and smooth finish. Enjoy your woodworking.
@@mohammadismail4584 when I get to woodwork I do enjoy it. Planing is satisfying. I have a 606 plane I need to finish lapping the sole of. That I have to say I am not thrilled doing. I lapped a 5 and I like how it runs now. The 606 is turning into a project.
@@1pcfred loads of sandpaper... But worth every second spent in the process. Good luck
I have had Stanleys and Records over the years but a few years ago bought a Veritas. Ductile iron and way more quality than the old planes. More costly of course but its working right out of the box. And its made here in Canada. However up here a Lie Nielsen is twice the cost of the Veritas and toe to toe they are easily equals. Either is an axcellent plane but the cost does not justify a Nielsen plane as pretty as they are. After all the whole idea is to plane wood as efficiently as possible with the least amount of work.
I think that if we talk not about one plane, but about a set of different planes, you can save not $200, but more than $1500, which for an individual craftsman can be a decisive factor, because the rest of the difference is not significant. and with the saved money you can buy a good power machine. bandsaw for example
I bought a WR plane that works better after putting a LN iron in it. After that I switched the LN planes. They are worth the difference in price IMHO. WR has had a large price increase recently so the cost difference is much less.
WR planes cost more than veritas in Canada right now in 2022, it's unbelievable
Tuning up the WR plane takes less than one hour so unless you value your hobby time at greater than $200 an hour then on a pure cost to value comparison based on function and set up alone I don’t see how LN wins this. I agree there are many other good reasons to buy a LN that make it worth the additional cost for many people (myself included), but comparing a WR vs LN straight out of the box is a straw man argument. They can be set up to work exactly the same with fairly minimal effort. If they couldn’t then you certainly wouldn’t see top craftsmen (eg Phil Lowe) still using old Bedrocks and Baileys.
mbdl Thank You for your comments. I have an older Stanley that I reconditioned some 25 years ago. It has all OEM parts, but I have thought of putting in a thicker plane iron. The plane works just fine, but I do look at the LN from time to time, and am very turned off by comparisons of one tool over twice the price to another. You point this out eloquently. I have a small low angle LN plane and it is a joy to use it, and of corse, it is better than one that is less than half the price. That said I have a friend that uses an old Stanley low block plane and he can do work with it
I can only dream about.
The play in depth of cut adjustment doesn't come from insufficient tightness of the adjustment screw, that isn't what causes the slack. The slack comes from the top end of the yoke which engages the blade. In Stanley planes you can't eliminate this slack, it is an intrinsic deficiency of their design.
My grand fathers 70 year old Stanley #4 has been such a work horse it's whole life, I've never even thought of replacing it, of buying any other plane.
I can only find the wood river for $200 or more so I think I'm mote likely to buy the lie neisen at this time.
I have the LN bronze. It's a nice plane, but it's too heavy for a serious hand tool woodworker. The Woodriver plane states that it's a half pound heavier yet.
I know neither is selling most of their planes to dedicated hand tool users, but 5 pounds is a weight that even the heavier vintage infill smoothers of the same size didn't touch. Stanley 4s were 3 pounds, and infill planes of that size were 3-4, generally (if you've ever had the good fortune to handles something like a Norris no. 2). I don't even think the norris no 13 that I have is 5 pounds, and it's a larger plane.
The nonsense of overly heavy planes is a modern phenomenon.
If you're asking why I have the Ln bronze? I like to support LN. It's also a bit nose heavy, but a good feel comparison when I make an infill. I need to be able to make a plane at least as nice and at least as capable as a LN bronze 4 (but less nose heavy).
In day to day heavy work, I use a stanley 4, though. Until or unless the wood being worked is rosewood, and that is a rare thing for the average hobby woodworker.
David W Thank God . A real woodworker.
This is of course one of the drawbacks to the bedrock design, it is very heavy. If you work with hand planes a lot then the bailey design is lighter and more efficient.
I think the same as other comments here, If the tool was used for a massive amount of production day in and day out, I would spend the extra money. But most people here are hobbyist at best, so it's the more affordable tools we usually go for. From your video it also sounds like the wood river is a pretty decent and worthy tool to have, so why not go for the cheaper option? this probably won't be a first time purchase for most with the number 4 planer, we still have to save money to buy more planers. With the $200 I save here, I get a pretty decent Jack plane for that amount. We all want more for less money, no? :)
I love the Lie-Nielsen.
:)
I own a WoodRiver #5. Paid $175. It's a fine tool, and it ticks all the boxes for me. I see no reason why it won't still be in use 50 years from now (though not by me). I'm sure the L-N is a fine plane, but that last ounce of perfection comes at an extremely steep price. Why pay double for good tools, when I don't have to?
I've only gotten snipe in planner mode a few times. That was user error and not the machine.
Lie Nielsen - made in the US and superior quality. If the budget allows it there is no question. I own a couple of Lie Nielsen planes and there is no comparison.
That's an overstatement, there is certainly a comparison, while you won't find a cheaper plane that simply outperforms the Lie Nielson, there are many scenario's where an old Stanly Baily can plane to the exact same finish even on very hard woods
I bought the wood river #4 right before it went on sale I would’ve had no idea it went on sale the next day If I didn’t get a letter in the mail with a gift card to the store
My grandfather told me when i was just a kid that he had never once said, "I wish i had bought the cheaper one, even though this one is better." Decades later, I feel the same way. If you, conservatively, keep a tool for ten years, that $200 difference is less than a cup of coffee (at McDonald's, no less!) per month.
I have the LN 4 bronze and use it often. For those who can not afford a LN plane, the Woodriver may be a good option. On the other hand, LN is made in Maine and I've never had any quality issues with any of the many LN planes I own.
Scott Beckstrom... what does the State of Maine have to do with the quality of your planes. I am asking just because that seemed like a rather obscure point to have brought to the table. I guess if your point was Wood River planes are made in China, Maine really isn't what I would consider a manufacturing power house to sway my opinion that a LN plane is better... "because Maine."
I don't want to speak for someone else, but I think what he means is that some people value USA manufacturing and prefer to support a small business that doesn't outsource production. Not only that, you have direct access to the craftsmen that produce the tool and can take any issues to them directly.
Tyler Sousa exactly
I’ve struggled so much with cheaper planes trying to make them flat, square, sides 90° etc. to avoid all that I’ll have to save some $ and go with the Lie-Nielsen
Wood river is made in China, that is all I need to know. Some well known teachers & Utube presenters use Woodriver products. I personally have may Lie-Nielsen hand planes and find the value and results are what I like and works foe me.
I'm just saying- a considerable % of that extra 200 dollars on the Lie Neilson plane is paying for all the hand finishing work you didn't do to that wood river plane, the final sole flattening, the blade flattening, dialing in and flattening the chip breaker and throat/blade seats...thats generally a few hours of work to stone those surfaces and Lie Neilson just does it for you and tacks it onto the bill.
The screw precision is a valid point, if a bit nitpicky
I'm joist pointing out that if you didn't do the final finishing work on that plane you arent doing an apples to apples comparison
$200 is a big differnce for me in the amount of wood of tools I can purchase for my hobby. With my latest bonus, the planes I buy will be all Wood River. Rob Cosman plays a big role in this.
@Pat Mahon Does that negate the proof of his output in the shop, straight from unboxing?
@@christophermball He makes no secret of the fact the WR planes need some fettling before use, he has videos showing how to set them up and it takes no more than 20 minutes most of which is dismantling to clean off the rust protection wax oil, rounding off edges on the casting and sharpening the blade. To be fair most of this is required for any plane.
You think a little bit a sole flattening and work on the chip breaker is worth $200? Sounds pretty lazy to be honest. Think it would be worthwhile to make those adjustment, note the real time it took, and how it compares after that.
No plane should be expected to work 100% right out of the box, this guy is lucky he got a Lie-Nielsen that is pretty much perfect but many are not. Half an hour of fettling on the Wood River can get it cutting every bit as good as the Lie-Nielsen. Personally I think the Wood River planes are over priced at the moment because they are after all made in China but they are an example of the best China is producing and that is a pretty high standard. The only real difference between the two is the amount of backlash in the adjustment mechanism but this is not a limitation to the quality of the work that can be produced using them.
In my mind, not fine tuning a fresh plane is like playing a guitar right out of the box... 99% of the time the neck is slightly bowed so you need to adjust your truss rod to your liking, you need to adjust the action after adjusting the truss rod, they always need to be properly intonated, pickup heights are placed in a rush... so on and so forth. I spent a month flattening and straightening my Woodriver 5 1/2 Jack plane because there's a delivery team that is destroying packages that are on their way up here. My plane was bent and twisted out of shape... Wouldn't have mattered if I had purchased it with the optional tuning service. I had to hammer and sand things flat. Lie Nielsens are professionally tuned and sent ready to use out of the box, others are factory set... That's the comparison I see here.
You know what burns me up, and gets me hot under the collar. People who would pick a Chinese made tool over the American one, which will feed American families; because.....its too expensive they say. People that usually say such, I wonder about them. How? Are these the one's who spend a great deal of money on cigarettes, or spend a great deal on buying lottery tickets every week. Pay for cable channels they never see. People who keep throwing parties on weekends, and barbecues where they feed their "friends", and spend gazillions on beer and soda, and food to guzzle in the weekend football parties. The ones who buy tons of clothing they will never wear, to pack-away with the tons of clothes they already have. And spend money 3 times a week on the wife's hairdoo and nails. Or need to take vacations, no matter what. They also have to take cruises every year and keep buying crap all years long, that they either pack away, or throw out fast. But....they never seem to be able to find enough money to buy quality tools that will practically last forever.
I feel the same way! Why would any American craftsman buy Chinese B.S. over American made? I'll never know.
@@jefffink8405 Precisely. And it shames us. If you can remember when in the late 1980's, when everyone was uptight about the Japanese coming in to buy up everything. And then the bottom started to fall out in Japan, around 1990. And their economy sunk. I have to say that I have an enormeous amount of respect for the Japanese. Why? There can be score of reasons; however, what the Japanese did, was practically every single Japanese citizen, willfully refused to buy anything that was not made in Japan. They tightened their belts, went without the foreign goods, and only bought Japanese manufactured products. It took them a long time to get back on track, but the single minded purpose of only buying Japanese products, had a tremendous effect to restore their country.
Lie-Nielsen Toolworks inc, only makes American made tools. And their tools are even more beautiful and better made than the Chinese high end. And you also get to feed an American family. Cannot get better than that. And once you buy one of their tools, even your grandchildren will inherit them in perfect condition. They last! Too bad Americans no longer thing like that. The Japanese shamed us by doing what we refuse to do. For pennies!
Must of had a price change I was just at wood craft store and they are $200
I struggle with a humid basement shop and difficulty keeping iron in good condition over time, especially when I have long gaps between projects. I’m headed towards the bronze LN vs the WR with upgraded IBC iron based on the bronze’s ability to resist rust.
Can you get a dehumidifier with a pump that auto pumps? That's what I got for my basement shop.
Does the woodriver speak Mandarin?
Im fine with my $5 Stanley No 4 :)
I have 3 different lie nielsen planes and 2 wood river planes yes lie Nielsen planes are superior however if you flatten the sole fine tune the blade & chip breaker you have an awesome plane, yes it's made in china but believe me dont ever let that discourage you they make a fantastic plane.
i dont know where you are from but a few extra bitcoins to buy USA made tools will never disappoint. They are hard to find however.
But that price difference is gonne ad up when you buy multiple planes and to be honest I have a old No4 Stanley handyman and old beat up Stanley Bailey No5 and I am getting great results Whit them although I want to upgrade them to a woodriver mostly because of the weight difference thanks fore the vid
For me its time. Yes, I hear you on the price adding up. Up to the individual.
Does not address stress in the metal causing distortion over time. If budget is the issue buy a vintage stanley
Most modern planes except the real cheap Chinese rubbish use stress relieved castings. They should not warp over time.
For the price of one LN I can buy two WR planes. Given that the WR planes perform so well, I will stick with WR. I own two so far (5 1/2 Jack and low angle block). And by the way, I am still supporting American workers by buying WR, even though the planes are made in China. Woodcraft is an American company that employs American workers, and by buying from my local Woodcraft store I am supporting workers in my local community.
Nothing even compares to Lie-Nielsen.
You would definitely have got better results and a finer cut if you'd checked for flat. All new planes are kits that need finishing. Even LN. Until you do it's luck of the draw, therefore an unfair demonstration really.
Reading these comment, hat off to LN brand. They have just made an unstoppable brand not even a Chinese knock off 1/3 the price can compare. Go usa
Lie Nielsen all the way! I have 3 LN planes and I am a professional woodworker.Go USA made, always the best and you will never regret the extra cost! Plus I can sell my planes on ebay for more than I paid...tells you something.
That point, selling on eBay for more than you paid, is a mind boggling one, but it's absolutely true. I watch addictions (autocorrect I had to leave. auctions*) to keep an idea of market value on a variety of things. Just yesterday I watched a LN plane sell for nearly a hundred dollars more than it could have been bought on the Lie-Nielson site the same day. I understand for things that are out of stock - but this was in stock, ready to be shipped. And that isn't the first time I've seen that with them. It's fascinating.
My 40 dollar restored WWII era Record plane gives me the same result. Enjoy spending your money guys :).
I have a LN #4 1/2 with a 50 degree frog, a #4 and a #5 WR, and LV low angle jack. I use the WR's for rougher work. I use the LV for shooting and some smoothing. I use the LN for smoothing. Truth be told I feel the WR's flex when I use them. I've also seen it when I had some else plane with them to see if I was correct. I have a #605 Stanley bedrock that I basically never use anymore. It has an original blade and a Hock replacement. It works great with the Hock blade but looks better in my tool chest. So I don't use it much.
You can see the body flex? Wow!
@@mmwoodstudio yes wow
I did not realize the Wood River tools are made in China . I will not buy any Chineese product , if I can help it . Are Lie Nelson tools American made ? How about Veritas Tools ? I like Veritas. Could you advise me on this , Thanks
veritas made in Canada
Veritas Canada, Lie-Nielsen in Maine.
I know guys that spend $200. on beer weekly, I use cheap mechanics tools because I'm not a mechanic but if I was I would buy the best tools in the market, How ever I'am a wood worker I don't think twice about buying the LN over the WR, it will pay for it self the first time you use it.
I have the lie Nielsen 4 in bronze it’s also heavier which’s helps as well.. I have a wood river 5 and it’s not even close In quality .. I will never buy another Chinese lie Nielsen knock off..
As a Canadian I want to own North American and European hand tools. Some Japanese too…
China is a no go for me. Their stuff is typically of a lesser quality for their lesser price.
The Woodriver plane blade will never be what the LN blade is and a good replacement is likely $80.00. So in the end the LN is a better plane and better value all while keeping my neighbours to the south busy and productive!
Considering that rob cosman uses wood river planes and constantly gets fine shavings less than yours. It must be the user and not the plane