Enhance your 3D printer knowledge with the Simple Stepper Motor Analyzer
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- Опубликовано: 14 июл 2024
- If you want to improve your knowledge of stepper motors, it helps to have the right tool. In this video, I use the open source and low cost Simple Stepper Motor Analyzer to compare theory to reality. We cover how stepper motors work, full steps, microstepping, setting current, detecting potential skipped steps and general 3D printing.
I found this tool really useful, and I hope you see the value too. If you like to tinker, building one may be a great project for you. I plan to use it to explore a range of other things, such as comparing before and after operation of stepper related options in Marlin firmware.
Build the Simple Stepper Motor Analyzer: github.com/zapta/simple_stepp...
Buy the Simple Stepper Motor Analyzer: www.etsy.com/listing/13594967...
This tool was provided to me free of charge for the purpose of making this video. All opinions expressed are my own.
How to Mechatronics stepper motor video: • Stepper Motor - How It...
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Buddy,
Your Diagrams are not "grossly simplified", their simplicity makes' em beautiful and one of the easiest to understand!
Great content!
And well explained!
Fantastic little tutorial video. Covers all the points you ever wondered about and leaves you very much enlightened. Top marks to you, Michael.👏👏
Outstanding as usual Michael. You spend so much time in preparation and it delivers the goods.
Michael, Thanks a lot. This is very cool and very well explained as usual!
Hey, I like your videos and now I can give back some knowledge as you provided a lot of it in past. So galvanic isolation means, that measured circuit is not directly connected to measuring measuring circuit. This is usually done using opto coupling elements to separate circuits. In this case GMR sensor is used - it's similar to the Hal effect sensor in operation, but it's much more sensitive. Basic principle is that current passes trough conductor and because of that magnetic field is induced around said conductor. When magnetic field is passing trough GMR sensor it will change it's resistance corresponding to that field and because field is generated by current ... well it's current meter that is connected trough magnetic field but not electrically. Why is that good, well electrically isolated circuits will not affect each-other so measurement will be more correct.
Here is also link to how GMR sensor works as it's long paper and they explain it in more scientific manner: www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3522974/
Great explanation. Also adding to the galvanic isolation benefits: it avoids ground loops and similar problems, for example if you have the device being powered from anything connected to the same grid as the printer sharing a ground, that could lead to issues (sometimes even shorting stuff to ground) depending on circuit design, and galvanic isolation is made to avoid this (transformers are often means of obtaining this too for AC signals/power).
Probably was chosen to avoid any coupling between windings and messing up the stepper driver, or to keep the power ground separated from any of the stepper connections too.
Thank you, now I understand how a stepper motor works.
I must confess I am quite impressed with your knowledge.
KUDOS!
Thank you for this! Like you said, I’m appreciative of the knowledge and tools. Keep up the great work!
Fascinating video! Thank you, Michael.
Thanks for bringing this to our attention, looks like a very useful tool!
Creeepy mindreader! This magic trick popped right up while troubleshooting this very mainstream issue. Keep rocking, Michael!
What a fantastic little demo. It's one thing to have to explain in in theoretical terms, but having a practical and a physical model alongside it was icing on the cake. I'm trying to explain something like this on a daily basis to my kids to help them figure out what daddy is doing, but this will probably be tonight's bedtime story. =)
Great test tool👍😀
Thanks for sharing your experience with all of us 👍😀
Really good video Micheal, got more knowledge on stepper Motor Thanks
Nicely done! Thanks for sharing.
Brilliant video very visual, made it easy to understand all the intricacies
Subscribed because of the Senna t-shirt. Jokes Man, awesome 3d printing content.
That is awesome, I'm definitely going to have to make me one or two of these.
This is super useful! Gonna use this when I drop in my hemera on my ender 3
Very cool topic, thank you!
Great video. And again great shirt! F1 for life!
Would you consider doing another video discussing the drivers, and the differences between a stock Creality board vs a silent board. I'm interested to see how the noise reduction is actually achieved.
Awesome tool to debug motor issues! Hopefully the analyzer will eventually be available as a kit or final unit.
Fantastic info and thank you for sharing.
This is a really cool and helpful tool
Great tutorial about how the steppermotors work with the 3D printer.... and great Ayrton Senna shirt!
Great video, very informative 👍
The Vampires of Australia are proud of you Michael 🦇🦇🦇🦇🦇
Great video! Next step (pun intended): explaining what exactly a stepper driver does. That would be very enlightening (if that's the word I'm looking for).
Thanks Master Michael, Like this COOOL TOOL. thanks thanks
indeed.an excellent video
Amazing open-source project! But my way to go if something doesn't work is usually switching parts until the problem disappears which is oftentimes the even cheaper way to go
It would be very interesting if you could do a comparison between spreadcycle and stealthchop mode with TMC steppers
I guess Im randomly asking but does any of you know of a tool to log back into an Instagram account?
I somehow forgot the password. I love any tips you can give me.
@Junior Jake instablaster :)
@Cayden Grady Thanks so much for your reply. I got to the site on google and I'm waiting for the hacking stuff now.
Looks like it's gonna take a while so I will get back to you later with my results.
@Cayden Grady it did the trick and I finally got access to my account again. Im so happy:D
Thanks so much, you saved my ass!
@Junior Jake Happy to help :D
Thank you
Outstanding as usual damm Man....
Having started in an NC shop, then upgrading to full CNC with closed loop steppers with backlash compensation, I still can't believe there isn't any hobby ready 3D printer that supports what I'm used to. If I have missed something, please point me to it! Regardless, love the tech available to the average person and people who help us out, like Michael.
The reason that 3D Printers don't bother with it is because there's no need to, there aren't forces acting on the nozzle and regarding movement 3D Printers are actually *more* accurate than CNC Machines, but the resulting prints aren't due to plastic expansion, retraction and other physics properties of the materials we use, rather than the mechanics of the motion system.
Backlash is a non-issue on properly setup machines, even those with leadscrews rather than ballscrews or linear guides and isn't worth the additional overhead to account for when closed loop steppers cause so many other issues, you know unless of course you frequently hit your printer with a hammer while printing :D
@@TheBarrelDoesGaming yep, and Marlin supports backlash compensation if you really wanted to use it. But no one should be using a leadscrew for anything other than Z axis, which doesn't need backlash comp due to gravity.
Great video
Brilliant topic and great video! I'm greatly appreciative of your content as a whole!
One question though, how does this compare to testing/visualising steppers via an oscilloscope?
that's quite nice, but I was kinda expecting a more in-depth proper calibration or something similar :D . Anyways, I found your content the most useful :)
Brilliant
fantastic diagnosis tool - GitHub to the rescue again !
Watched the video, I am currently having all kinds of problems with my extruder using an E3 Turbo board. Went to get some built and Current sensor are on BO.... UGGGG
But thanks for the video... I still plan to get one, but I think for now I will need to put the original board back in my CR10v3
Where do you can buy it? Thanks
Hi Michael. Very timely as I have had Redrex stepper go squirrely on the Z axis of my Ender 5 this week. The original Z was a 400 thread which would drop, the beefier stepper fixed that. Would like to confirm that the stepper is the problem, so this looks like just the tool I need! Many thanks. Can you do a video on simple PWM controllers for steppers so we can make DIY wash stations?
Ok. How do we get one of the banggood sellers to start making these? I know from experience that making them myself will be pricey and I will end up with a bucket of extra parts and a sloppy result.
After looking over the GitHub I'm considering building a few of these... mainly as an excuse to use my reflow station a little more :) Would anybody be interested in buying an assembled one or maybe a kit/PCB? The current sensors would be difficult to install without hotair or some kind of reflow setup though.
Yep
id be intrested....what are you charging?
If you still intend on building a few of these, I'd be interested
Vc é brasileiro amigo? Se não, achei show que vc curte Ayton Senna. Parabéns pelo vídeo. Muito top!
You forgot to mention that setting current via the firmware instead of using a screwdriver is only possible if your stepper drivers are configured to run in UART mode on the motherboard. It doesn't depend on the stepper's brand name.
Are there drivers other than trinamic that use uart? Sure there are standalone non uart implementations of tmc but afaik all uart 3d printer driver are tmc (while not all tmc (but most of them) are using uart)
There are some other drivers on the Marlin configuration page that support current setting (LV-something?), or even boards that have current setting capabilities for different stepper drivers indeed. I think it's even possible to design the board such that the current set pin is controlled by the MCU even on A4988 drivers, doubt anyone has done this tho.
Also yeah standalone TMCs won't be helped but I guess he just assumed that if you're running TMCs you're going to want them in UART, I mostly chose this because I really didn't wanna fiddle with the potentiometer.
There's a lot of different steppers that support soft current adjustments and not only using UART. Before Trinamic drivers came out boards like the RAMBo series used digital trimpots over SPI to adjust current and TMC2130 drivers use SPI directly to set current. It's not just TMC2208/9 that support soft current control.
No CR-10 Smart review yet? Looking forward to watching your review on that printer
nice to know, not really important though, just use an osciloscope, you can get these for cheap (under 200 bucks, ds212 or ds213) on banggood and aliexpress. not only is this very usefull, but it opens up the entire world of electronics for you
I could use one of these to monitor my X axis during benchy speed tests. The X always skips the distance between posts right before the start of the door arch. Makes it look like the thing has a mullet.
MORE!!!!
Thanks for bringing this device to light. I'm hooked! Is it possible for you to tell us where you got it? I would be very interested in either purchasing one, or even better purchasing a kit of parts and building it myself. Please let us know if that is possible.
The assembly isn't the hard part for me. I've looked at the BOM and the hard part looks to be buying the PCB and all the parts as one-offs from all the different suppliers. I'll do it if I have to, but hopefully someone wants to make some money by doing all the procurement footwork upfront and offering a kit. Thanks again.
Very nice! Just make sure you don't take apart your stepper motor- it'll de-magnetize it and now it will be very weak.
Great explanation, thanks for that. Unfortunately sourcing the necessary items isn't that easy because you need a certain STM32 board with a very (vendor) specific pin out that seems hard to come by.
I wonder how far you'd come with a run-of-the-mill oscilloscope for analyzing stuff like this, though
Sounds like basically what it is, with fancy useful software on top. I'm also wondering since I'm having a hella annoying problem with my Y stepper jamming at a very specific speed range (3500 to 5500 mm/min.) even unloaded. Given I have a scope, I might check the waveforms at the stall moment to see if I can fix something, maybe those TMC hysteresis values and such.
Maybe you can do a video on how you built the analyzer?
I think the creator built it and sent it over to him.
Very interesting but very frustrating that it's not readily available for purchase....
nuevo suscriptor!!! queria pedirte una guia del tmc2209 v3.0 y la version tmc2209 v 3.1 de la empresa FYSETC para conectarlos correctamente en modo UART
saludos desde Argentina
Hi Michael,
Great presentation, as always.
Can you tell me if its possible to acquire one of these things ready made?
Thanks for all the great work.
I'm considering building a small run of these as a side project if people are interested. I haven't looked at the cost of all the components yet but probably around $60USD or a few bucks for a PCB.
@@rareshiny661 count me in
@@rareshiny661 count me in
@@rareshiny661 Did you make some of these up? I'd be interested in one.
A source for the PCB would be nice. If I order from the "we do your designs" manufacturers, I need to order 5 or so, at least. (Which are 4 more than I need)
Damn that's pretty interesting. Given I have an oscilloscope, it might be time I use it to find the solution to that goddamn stall I'm having.
Running NEMA 23s on X and Y, TMC2208s on UART, StealthChop is useless and doesn't move them at any current even max past ~30mm/s or so, SpreadCycle runs them well in many speeds, even low currents, but it just WON'T run at 4000mm/min. G0 codes on Y axis alone, X works. Looks like a mechanical resonance locking them up from what I've read, tried even replacing the stepper with another identical and a different one entirely, same deal. If I hold them firmly on my hand it doesn't stall....always at least, but mounted it just won't work properly.
If anyone is curious and can help, the setup is a leadscrew based moving bed, T8x8 screws on the NEMA 23 stepper, runs between 6000 and 11000mm/min, and lower than 3500 any speed, but that specific range locks it up. Not binding, I can roll it with my fingers easily, and it still locks unloaded too at any current. Tried many different microstepping modes, Marlin 1.1.9, 2.0.7, 2.0.X bugfix (2.0.7 didn't even work at all and fails homing regardless of what I do).
👌❤👍
That's an awesome tool. Would it be thinkable to connect that to Octoprint and have it monitor graphs in real time to diagnose potential problems automatically?
CRAZY HEAT. My Ender 3 v2 is 6 weeks old. The Y Stepper for the bed is extremely hot compaired to the others. The X axis stepper can be at 35 C and the Z stepper will be 45 to 70 C deg. You cant even touch it with your hand. I know that there is more force to move the bed than the print carrage, however even if you don't do a print and just set it to home, the steppers are powered to keep everything from moving. If you do not dissable the steppers, in 30 min the Y will be 10 deg hotter and in 2 hrs it will be 35 deg hotter. I noticed it after I hade the printer for 2 weeks. Then doing a 10 hr print this past weekend I discoverd it was at 72 C. Do I have a bad stepper?
More likely that the current setting for that axis isn't set properly. You can swap the stepper connections to see if the same stepper gets hot or the one connected to the same driver. If it's the latter you can just adjust the appropriate current pot with a small screwdriver until it's just slightly below the point that the motor gets hot.
It would be extremely cool of this could be integrated with klipper screen via the raspberry pi. Im sure its possible but goes way beyond me.
🎶Ain't no _half-steppin'_
I'm the Big Daddy Kane🎵
Great little tool. Is anyone selling pcb for it?
I had made a stepper motor spin over 2000RPM at work for purpose of testing speed detecting equipment.
I wonder if this gadget would be able to keep up.
@@dzidmail It will be even more considering the fact that those 2000RPM are with 1/64 microstepping....
oh, cool, nowhere to buy kit?
Can the analyzer report if you are full-steps or X number of microsteps?
Would love to see an already built analyzer for sale!
But if the issues are almost impossible to find, are they really issues?
This would have been truly useful back when I was using an old Mendel90 homebrew. Now, with a Prusa mk3s, I don't know if there's much point in getting this device, the printer is damn good already. Did anyone get something useful out of applying this to a Prusa mk3 or mk3s?
Any idea where I can get this prebuilt?
Hey has anyone had any issues ordering the PCB to make this? I will be honest I have never had a custom PCB made before and when I tried to order it I included the Gerber and the BOM files and tried to go through PCBway and they keep telling me it fails audit cause it's not in rs-274x format. I am not exactly sure what it is they are wanting me to provide them. Any advise would be greatly appreciated.
Hey can you tell me the how to fix glitched display on reprap full graphical display lcd
I wouldn't advice to ask for help in a RUclips comment section, that's what Facebook groups and Reddit are for...
Anyway... Would you mind explaining a bit more?
You set delays on it, I know cause I have a cheapo one with long cables!
Test adding the following delay code lines (I'm assuming you're using Marlin, that is), I added right under the define of the LCD:
#define ST7920_DELAY_1 DELAY_NS(0)
#define ST7920_DELAY_2 DELAY_NS(400)
#define ST7920_DELAY_3 DELAY_NS(0)
Solved for my LCD (the Aliexpress ones with red board and encoder on the bottom), hope it does for yours. You'll maybe need to tweak the values if it doesn't work for you.
@@Kalvinjj i try it get little better but not full clear
Any other solution?
There is a rumor that you often damage and demagnetize your stepper magnets when disassembling them. Is it true? Or does it only happen to people using a hammer to disassemble the stepper?
Did the analyzer show any difference before and after disassembling it? Has it been the one with poor inductance? Or do you know, why the one stepper didn't perform well? Did it overheat before or drop?
I wish he'd explain what he means by poor inductance. Low inductance is good as it allows controller to keep current up on rapid motion.
Its not true with modern stepper motors, you won't lose significant magnetization. Dropping it or overheating also won't do much unless we are talking extreme levels (eg well over 130 C).
@@1kreature Poor inductance = high inductance, in this case. Since we are running relatively low voltage to the stepper motor, it won't like the high inductance as its slow to react.
@@jaro6985 So the motor didn't break, but was always like that? Can you recommend information about the difference between old and modern stepper motors? I guess it is a different material for the magnets?
@@maxmustermann2596 Yeah most likely always like that. Correct, modern stepper motors will have a permanent magnet core likely neodymium, then the iron laminations around it. Older might use AlNiCo or some other inferior magnetization method.
in 1:26 what is the name of micro controller ?
Where I can buy parts?
Is there anyone selling the printed circuit boards for this device?
I'm considering buying a run of them as this board is expensive in low quantities at OSHPark.
Where i can bay it.?
You can't (at this stage at least), you have to build it.
@@TeachingTech where i can get the pcb for build it.. ? can you help me
Don't listen to the haters, I mean I disliked it to but that doesn't matter.
I can't find a 25mhz black pill. :-(
edit: I found one that might work.
Allegro ACS70331EESATR-2P5B3 doesn't seem to be available.
ACS70331EESATR-005U3 is available.
The 5U is 0-5A. You need to 2P5B which is -2.5A to 2.5A. Digikey is temporarily out of stock. WeAct Studio store on aliexpress has STM32F411CEU6 with 25Mhz crystal.
@@FirstLast-ih6ec thanks
I think "impedance" is the same as "resistance" except for a circuit, not one component. "Low impedance" I think means the board-motor connection doesn't "see" the device as a significant resistor
Not really. Both terms apply equally to circuits and individual components. Impedance is used for AC, where the amount of current flowing depends not just on ohmic resistance, but also on inductive and capacitive reactances. The combination is called impedance. Resistance is the term used where current and voltage are in phase, as in a DC circuit where if one goes up/down the other follows suit. In inductors and capacitors, current and voltage are not in phase. For example the coils in stepper motors have relatively large inductance (and therefore inductive reactance) compared to their DC resistance and that has a significant effect on current flow. The rise or change in current, which you want to be rapid, lags behind any rise or change in voltage. It's why stepper motors are driven by quite high voltages.
Please help me
The device is awesome, my only question is why they chose you to present it to us, There are other more qualified youtubers to do this i'd say.
Cool you tube guy.jajs
Industrial 3 phase servo motors are superior over stepper motor
It is worth noting that microstepping does NOT increase a motor's resolution as they are open loop and cannot stop betwen full steps with any degree of accuracy. Microstepping makes stepper motors quiet and move much smoother, it does not increase the resolution of the system - that is for a 1.8 degree motor, 1/32 microstepping does not increase the number of discrete number of possitions the motor can stop to by 32.
If microstepping did increase resolution, then 0.9 degree per step motors would be completely pointless.
I get what you're trying to say, but this seems inaccurate.
If my printer's steppers couldn't stop at a microstep, it would be disastrous for printing even the simplest of 20mm calibration cubes. The accuracy of the print would then depend on where I place it on the print bed, and this isn't the case. We'd be seeing real life aliasing, and that's not something that I've ever seen in 3D printing.
Repeatability and holding torque on the other hand is reduced with microstepping.
Of course it increases resolution, google "hackaday microstep" for a simple example. 0.9 deg per step motors are not pointless as they will have more torque running 0.9 degree steps, and also can be microstepped down to lower levels than a 1.8 deg.
COMMENT!
Almost first
He doesn't understand how stepper Motors work. There is no permanent magnet in the center.
A rare case on this channel: the video is useful and useless at the same time. All because you can't buy the assembled hardware, or at least buy it two parts. Of course you can assemble it yourself somehow, starting from Arduino plate, but you need to be a pro in radio electronics. In the repo is almost no information about hardware, in the BOM just mentioned "Analyzer PCB Rev 1.0", how sweet.. So it is impossible to apply the acquired knowledge. Pitty.
Upload github.com/zapta/simple_stepper_motor_analyzer/blob/master/kicad/gerbers.zip to PCB providers such as JLCPCB and you will get back the PCB boards.
@@FirstLast-ih6ec Thanks a lot!
So what the hell is the point of this? Why do I want to "analyze" my stepper motors
What a waste of time
Where I can buy parts?