That Walgreens over the freeway is weird to park in and shop in. If you stand still for a few seconds, you can feel the floor moving constantly. Same in the parking lot. In fact, they just resurfaced the whole parking lot because the concrete keeps cracking and falling apart. This summer, there were several holes that I could have easily gotten my foot stuck in down a couple of inches, and I used to wear size 12's.
Go back with video footage, step inside one of those holes. Fall. Make sure its recorded and find yourself an injury lawyer. You will win the case, it may be easy or hard but in the end, you will get a nice payday. If enough people do that, they will have to make changes there to address it because it has to do with money.
Well I think the main difference is that recently operated parked cars are far more likely to catch fire than long-term storage cars. Yes, that makes it even dumber.
Parking tends to be much better monitored than storage. So, sort of the same reason the FAA allows folks to take lithium batteries in carry-on luggage, but putting them in checked bags is a big no-no.
@@justins8802 Yes, but long term storage cars are much more likely to be a target of arson. Still stupid but I can at least see the logic. We're not so much worried about the cars setting themselves on fire, that very rarely happens-- cars being set on fire by someone else tho? All the time.
technically space right next to the freeway can often be used for facilities and industries you either don't want to have elsewhere in the city and its neighborhoods, or which you want to have close to the highway for shorter travel distances across the city (e.g. for trucks). Like bus terminals, waste power plants, water treatment facilities, towing and recovery services, cargo distribution centers, hospitals, fire / ems / police stations. Depending on the layout of the freeway it can be next, between, under or above it ...
There's a viaduct in my city with the bus station and a parking lot built underneath of it. The area feels full and well used. On the other side of town is an i75 bridge with rail and a mud lot underneath.
I worked for bridge builders who did caltrans work for the past twenty nine years, dont blame us. We took pictures before, during, and when done. Our ironworkers were too tired to do side jobs.
In hindsite of the freeway leassed air space fires, installing a dry standpipe with a sprinkler system sounds like a good idea. They dont even need city water, just ocean salt water (hence the use of dry standpipes)
It's fine IF you use it for certain conditions. First, any storage must non-combustible, like rock, sand, non combustible metals (except scrap) etc. Any buildings should be completely sprinklered, and any HVAC units located on the side or rear of the building, not on top. Parking is fine as long as you provide provide a minimum clearance between vehicles of say 4-5'.
The transit agency I drive for in Northern California, and they have their yards parked under an elevated freeway. I'd be out there pre-trippung my bus, hear an accident from above, and see debris raining down into the yard. Might have to invest in a hard hat.
LA is full of Billionaires but I have only met a few of them and one of them is the guy who started the self storage places and rented that air space really cheap years ago.
The tone at the start of the video implies that there's something stupid about leasing out air space. But then the video goes on to list a long array of economic benefits to airspace leases along with the appropriate regulations. The only ongoing concern seems to be fire hazards which is just another calculated risk that needs to be regulated.
Imagine if they just got raid of the elevated roadway and made it ground level, with trains and houses. Now your talking about adding a shit ton more in taxes instead of a road generating none
Environmental and social benefit of decreased sprawl not mentioned. I'm sure even with the recent fire it's been massively beneficial for Californians. Just update the code a bit.
I wqish the video said it more clearly, theres nothing inherently bad with these practices, it gets the state money and does have economic benefits, but there is a risk and some over sight, like routine inspections, should be conducted.
Go to a city like London where there are a lot of overpasses for trains ( no, not the underground trains ). Under those overpasses are everything you can imagine. One of our favourite pubs there is under an overpass. It can be very valuable real estate and should be used as such.
A big difference is that people exiting a train are on foot, so it makes sense to have a lot of shopping within foot distance. People exiting a freeway are in their car, and they tend to drive away.
@@RoadGuyRob I should have been more clear. The merchants under the overpasses in London are not there for the train or car passengers; they are there to service neighbourhood locals on foot.
If Beverly Hills didn't want an urban freeway, what does that say about the effects of these highways in other parts of town without the money for lawyers?
I personally, don't mind the parking lot aspect of this type of thing. You already have a fairly large piece of property that isn't being used for anything useful. Now instead of taking a large parcel of land down the block and using that to create a massive parking lot, wasting space that could be used for development, using the land underneath the highway is quite a good idea.
Clarify it the same way Nagasaki was cleared out. Gate Tower Building works fine, it just doesn't have Americans in it. Read a bit into how these American "freeways" were originally built and why all over the place. Seeing how a colony like Hawaii was turned into the tourist hellhole it is after the Pearl Harbor, I'm sure Iraq could help you with some "urban planning"of your own. Just move any big shots out of the way first, so they can rent the space out later, like Hirohito did all the way until 1989. Civlians can eat dirt for the cause.
@@PrograError There's other options, like underground mall above underground rail lines, underground mall under roads, seen that in Taiwan, land value must be very high, so it make sense to built.
A quick correction rob, the post office existed BEFORE 290 was built. The post office was built when they were planning on building the expressway, so that area was intentionally kept open for the future freeway: en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Chicago_Main_Post_Office
I still feel that if the city is making money off increasing the risk to the infrastructure, they shouldn't get state or federal funds to help when that extra risk causes incidents like big fires weakening or collapsing the bridges. Or perhaps instead they should be required by law to set aside a portion of the money they're making for a rapid-response emergency repair fund.
What a novel idea. However, that kind of flies in the face of how California operates. Your problem is YOUR problem, but my problem is also YOUR problem.
Contrary to what's implied in the video, this isn't all only about money. Land space in many of these areas is a very limited resource, and there is a lot of really valuable and potentially beneficial (for everyone) land under these freeways that would basically just be completely wasted otherwise. Not using these areas at all would result in increased property costs for everyone else in the area (making it harder for things like small businesses to stay in the area), and a lot more city sprawl, which also leads to increased traffic and congestion, etc, etc. There actually are a number of entirely legitimate reasons why maximizing the useful space in the heart of the city is a valuable thing, for everyone. And the vast majority of the uses it's put to _do not actually increase the risk to infrastructure significantly at all._ Note also that a large portion of the money they make off of leasing the airspace actually _does_ go directly into infrastructure maintenance funds (including emergency funds), so they're basically _already doing exactly what you're suggesting_ anyway. This is a situation where the rules may need to be tweaked somewhat, and possibly better enforcement applied, but the basic concept and use of the funds is really not actually the problem here, or a bad thing.
The state makes the money (not the city), FYI. The airspace leases do have FHWA (Federal Highway Administration) permission since 1961. But the question of liability is valid.
How many huge fires have there been under the highways in CA? That have caused structural damage, requiring the highway to be shutdown for days, weeks, or months? It's the same as anything else in the world. If you rent a house and then burn it down due to your neglect, you are responsible for the damages, it is your responsibility to make sure things like a fire do not happen. So the risk of leasing the land vs any damage to the structure from neglect is very limited (who is going to spend millions on a factory to let it burn down?) and a money generator for the state for space that would otherwise become homeless encampments. I would say 90% of the fires in the Bay area are around and under our highways caused by homeless people living there....thus I would rather see businesses there than homeless encampments along the drive. And I believe the fire was an act of Arson for I10, which could happen regardless of the liability coverage for the highway infrastructure. Basically why not make money on that land when the liability of damage is so miniscule? Been in CA for 50+ years, and this is one of the rare times the highway infrastructure has been damaged so badly that they needed to close the highway, most the other time it is highways taken out by forest fires, mudslides, earthquakes, etc. If the state collects the lease money, then they do need to pay to get it fixed and they do have a slush fund put aside or things like this, its called insurance. Have worked for the government, there are things in place to cover expenses when things like this happens....not sure why everyone wants to believe people who claim there aren't.
Have you covered how Mexico City uses the space under overpasses? They built out retail space and rented it out, combined with parks, cafes etc. Lately they’ve also been adding vertical gardens to the support posts. Transforms a sketchy area into something desirable. Even if the city breaks even on rent it’s a net positive for the community.
@@RoadGuyRob You can search for “bajo puente” or the restaurant El Huequito Juan Escutia. Located in the La Condesa neighborhood. I have only driven past it myself, but looks like a big improvement to the trash and homeless camps. Also check out Seattle’s I-5 Colonnade park with dirt bike trails and an off-leash dog park. So nice when it is raining in Seattle!
Actually good if the viaduct is seismically safe. In places less car-addicted, there are cafes under railway arches, apartments under rail viaducts in Japan (which are actually quiet inside)
Also you don’t need freeway bridges if you build the freeway right, don’t build them straight through the city and you’ll be able to out the freeway on ground level. The netherlands and many other countries have this.
In Syracuse NY, they recently moved Route 690 to grade, removing the long bridge sections. They were mostly only a few feet off the ground, so no air space opportunities but they had to maintain these long sections like bridges and were literally only a few feet off the ground.
that sounds so pointless, glad they got rid of them either build it up higher enough to put things under it or jsut put it on grade or even below grade
I think this video wasn't bashing the use of highway airspace but more about the misuse of that space. The pallets stacks being a key example of what not to use the space for.
Unfortunately, I've learned that if I don't make the title sound controversial I'll only have 10% the viewers. The title is just a trick to get people into the longer video
@@RoadGuyRob I understand but the first half of the video it kinda implied cities have been crazy to be building things under freeways. It's not just the title
@@RoadGuyRob Wow, that’s a huge difference. Can’t blame ya then. Fortunately, I already knew they weren’t foolish, thanks to Betteridge's Law Of Headlines ("Any headline that ends in a question mark can be answered by the word no.")
Thank you Road Guy Rob. Because of your videos, I've learned so much about road engineering and road safety. Please don't stop making these videos, they're a great educational asset!
CalTrans should install fire suppression systems under the freeway where they lease. Raise rates a bit to cover the cost of install and maintenance. Require all lessees to have insurance in case the fire suppression system goes off and damages their stuff. Or if they lease the land below a freeway, additional fire protection coatings on all of the underside of those locations.
I commented something similar on your previous I-10 fire video, but I like what the city of Charleston, WV did. They built a skate park under the viaduct that runs through the west side of town. It provides recreation to locals, encourages the community to take care of the space, and gives a good industrial backdrop for those hardcore skating videos.
I've spent time in both Paris and Tokyo. In both they make fairly intensive use of space above freeways and rail infrastructure and below. As someone who walks around those cities these then become places to interact with and are on a human scale. For example, in the US as a pedestrian crossing under a freeway or wide railway is to pass by a lot of blank infrastructure. In Tokyo there were shops and restaurants.
Plenty of places here in the US you are simply not meant to walk, but drive because “everyone has a car” and build around that assumption. One place near me had train tracks that got removed to build something else, but in the process they removed the sidewalk too. Its by a fenced park too so you would have to walk all the way around the park to reach bus stop at end of removed sidewalk. During a doctor visit, i missed my bus stop by a stop so i decided to just walk back. It was very desolate pedestrian-wise and zero connection to anything you could walk to until you reach the hospital. A more recent (or more accurately pre-existing problem worsening) problem with walking around here is the homeless. Both directly and indirectly. Indirectly they affect walking/buses because the city despises them but won’t fix it since its too costly. So, they do their best to make their life as miserable as they can by removing cover from the elements like bus stop shade, removing benches for the bus stops, and overall making it miserable to use bus transportation indirectly. Directly, the homeless seem to have raised their standard of living. Meaning rather than finding them laying around in random places, they now have tents or build sheds to live in out of trash they collect. Large enough structures to force you walk off the sidewalk in some places with high car traffic. They tend to group up which worsens the problem since you might have 100m of these structures adjacent to each other. Even a single of them can block off sidewalks if their committed to it. Seen one drag 6 shopping carts filled to the brim with trash. After 2 weeks they left but all the trash remained, no longer contained to the shopping carts but scattered across the street that again forces you off the side walk because their not always small items but pieces of wood, sofas, mattresses, and torn bags with junk.
@@popenieafantome9527 hopefully sprawl is repaired. shit its even possible to repair sprawl while preserving most preexisting buildings and still increase the density, malls/office parks especially are pieces of architecture that can be protected (office parks look a lot better than the exteriors of malls though)
As someone who commutes via the 110 everyday, it really is one hell of an ugly freeway. It feels dystopian when you take the in-streets parallel to it. I would love to see some development happen that isn't just junkyards, storage lots, or rundown concrete buildings. Maybe add some greenery.
In my city there's a whole hipstery street food market/boutique shopping complex under the A57(M) viaduct (known as Mancuinuan Way). I've been there a few times, it's a bit of a noisy place to eat!
As a local truck driver here in Southern California it’s great to see someone reporting on our freeway system. Especially the downtown I 10 Good work Rob.
Maybe I'm speaking the obvious, but what jumps out to me is the image of the I-880 viaduct collapse during the 1989 Loma Prieta earthquake. So it's shocking to see the lax zoning that would essentially allow this to happen again.
One of the most famous examples of airspace rights is the Hanshin Expressway in Japan; one of its exits runs straight through the Gate Tower building. Well, technically the airspace rights are being leased to the Hanshin Expressway, not the other way around. At least what I heard.
Aren't those bridges supposed to be inspected annually? If those areas are closed off, how can they be reached for regular maintenance and repairs? What about painting the steel beams? Also concrete is porous, so the ceilings to these places probably experience a lot of ongoing moisture. I'm from Ohio and used to inspected bridges, so these are my biggest concerns. Of course we have a wetter climate and the winter freeze thaw cycles cause our bridges to decay faster.
The question is whether emergencies cause more economic damage to the city than can be recovered by business and property taxes. My suspicion is that such emergencies are exceedingly rare, and are more than compensated for by the increase in revenue from repurposing undervalued land.
I understand why this video is being made however if you think that the fire in California was started because of what was being stored under the bridge your brain needs to be extremely smooth and filled with worms. It eould be interesting if the states abhorrent leases over the next 10 years.
My question is so you build a factory let’s say under the freeway on your lease but they have to re-deck the road for some reason and the road deck is the roof to your factory. How is that gonna work out? How do you operate in your factory that you’ve leased While they work on the road
I think I've found the best balance between efficient and quality all concrete finished where the floor flat for ada and drains into holes in pipes in the basement built in rain gutters in the walls finish with wood and plastic and flat roof with railing height wall on the roof finish with detail instead of the sill plate and wood roof do a sideways wooden awning to make the warehouse precast look like a house like a small downtown buildings
Grreat video Rob explaining and breaking down the airspace development and such. I've also driven under the Walgreens in Reno countless times and always wondered why it was there, as it's so random haha. Thank you for explaining that!
Can you do a video on why some states (California / Nevada) put a second Turn Signal Light on the pedestrian pole, and other states (Arkansas / Texas) do not? So TX/ AR only has one light to look at when you're turning left. So if the sun is right behind the light, you physically cannot see the turn light to know if you can go or not. In CA/NV, you have a second light to look at. I'd love to know why
parking under feeeways? now they just need to add transit malls, and you've got a transition point from private car centric suburbs to transit/walking oriented downtowns. just saying.
Most places seem to be able to rent out space under viaducts with little to no problems, japan, china, the old USSR even other american cities. Seems to be another on of those uniquely California problems
China? You're trying to bring China into this like they're something to aspire to? The place that builds buildings that fall down in less than 5 years and is notorious for allowing toxic things to happen next to people's houses? Also the USSR? LOL this is pure buffoonery.
In the US, we tend to be pretty lax on fire code stuff. I'm all for better use of land, but they need to pay more attention to the safety. Also, junk storage isn't exactly a very valuable use... there's probably something better. Folks are paying more attention now, which is good. I wonder how many businesses are hearing about this now and thinking "we could lease that?"
Here in Kansas City we just slapped a Observation Wheel right next to a high way bridge. And under the bridge they created a family friendly entertainment district. Look up Pennway Point
"The plots have to be open competitive bidding so no friend of city hall getting a good deal." Correction: No *poor* friend of city hall is gonna get a good deal. Not that it would be the best idea to have public housing where you're going to get constant noise anyways.
That Walgreens over the freeway is weird to park in and shop in. If you stand still for a few seconds, you can feel the floor moving constantly. Same in the parking lot. In fact, they just resurfaced the whole parking lot because the concrete keeps cracking and falling apart. This summer, there were several holes that I could have easily gotten my foot stuck in down a couple of inches, and I used to wear size 12's.
I got sunburned on the Golden Gate Bridge once, and stopped there to buy some aloe vera. Felt like a transportation rite of passage.
@onehandwashestheotherlost their feet to a different pot hole.
That sounds scary
they grew, Now he has size 24 they double every twenty two years.@onehandwashestheother
Go back with video footage, step inside one of those holes. Fall. Make sure its recorded and find yourself an injury lawyer. You will win the case, it may be easy or hard but in the end, you will get a nice payday. If enough people do that, they will have to make changes there to address it because it has to do with money.
They don't allow storing cars under the viaduct but do allow parking cars under the viaduct?
Sounds like a distinction without a difference.
Well I think the main difference is that recently operated parked cars are far more likely to catch fire than long-term storage cars.
Yes, that makes it even dumber.
so how about long term parking?
Money.
Parking tends to be much better monitored than storage.
So, sort of the same reason the FAA allows folks to take lithium batteries in carry-on luggage, but putting them in checked bags is a big no-no.
@@justins8802 Yes, but long term storage cars are much more likely to be a target of arson. Still stupid but I can at least see the logic. We're not so much worried about the cars setting themselves on fire, that very rarely happens-- cars being set on fire by someone else tho? All the time.
So, you mean to tell me that when I place industries under elevated highways in Cities Skylines, its already been done in real life?!? 😂😂
Yes! 👍
technically space right next to the freeway can often be used for facilities and industries you either don't want to have elsewhere in the city and its neighborhoods, or which you want to have close to the highway for shorter travel distances across the city (e.g. for trucks). Like bus terminals, waste power plants, water treatment facilities, towing and recovery services, cargo distribution centers, hospitals, fire / ems / police stations. Depending on the layout of the freeway it can be next, between, under or above it ...
Don't forget sex stores!
In California you can live under the freeway.
lol that AI upscale @ 2:57 is something
Either it looks like a grainy mess or it looks like an AI mess. LOL
There's a viaduct in my city with the bus station and a parking lot built underneath of it. The area feels full and well used. On the other side of town is an i75 bridge with rail and a mud lot underneath.
I used to go to a barbershop under a railroad bridge in Jamestown, New York. When a train came through the barber always paused the haircut or shave.
I worked for bridge builders who did caltrans work for the past twenty nine years, dont blame us. We took pictures before, during, and when done. Our ironworkers were too tired to do side jobs.
In hindsite of the freeway leassed air space fires, installing a dry standpipe with a sprinkler system sounds like a good idea. They dont even need city water, just ocean salt water (hence the use of dry standpipes)
In Denver CO they had the I70 raised up and it had soo much stuff underneath it. Finally they tore it down and are putting the interstate underground
It's fine IF you use it for certain conditions. First, any storage must non-combustible, like rock, sand, non combustible metals (except scrap) etc. Any buildings should be completely sprinklered, and any HVAC units located on the side or rear of the building, not on top. Parking is fine as long as you provide provide a minimum clearance between vehicles of say 4-5'.
Guess this gives the song "Under the Bridge" by Red Hot Chili Peppers a new meaning.
🎵Under the bridge downtown is where I built my garage!🎵
Reno/Sparks NV RTC bus shop sits under the 395 freeway. In front of the RNO airport entrance.
8:39 its crazy seeing the exact grocery store you have been to on a road guy rob video!
Looks like NYC under the BQE (Brooklyn Queens Expressway), also the "A" Train in Ozone Park has buildings under the above ground subway tracks.
You're edits are becoming next level
Another well-produced, informative, and entertaining video. Thanks, Road Guy Rob!
Seattle's Freeway Park and convention center is a shining example of what air leases can be.
This is so common in Japan, why not?
The transit agency I drive for in Northern California, and they have their yards parked under an elevated freeway.
I'd be out there pre-trippung my bus, hear an accident from above, and see debris raining down into the yard.
Might have to invest in a hard hat.
LA is full of Billionaires but I have only met a few of them and one of them is the guy who started the self storage places and rented that air space really cheap years ago.
The city gets all the benefits of leasing the space with no risks. If there's a fire the federal gov't picks up the repair costs.
I go to school a couple blocks away from here off washington and fig. I can''t explain how bad it is in this area
Honestly, I look at some under freeway areas around me and think we could be standing up low-cost single occupancy spaces. Whole sections of them.
Require sprinkler systems under bridges.
Very informative. Great job
The tone at the start of the video implies that there's something stupid about leasing out air space. But then the video goes on to list a long array of economic benefits to airspace leases along with the appropriate regulations. The only ongoing concern seems to be fire hazards which is just another calculated risk that needs to be regulated.
its sad how we tear away homes and bizzneses for these projects]
So how do they inspect the bridges if buildings are blocking out the underneath?
How do the bridges get inspected with crap built up to the soffets and decks?
Wouldn't putting it underground like NY's Big Dig provide more property taxes? Is the tectonic activity too high?
If public works would use it instead property elsewhere then yet as said, money.
Underhighway storage isnt bad but needs to be upkept, to many pepole own property they cant maintain
Imagine if they just got raid of the elevated roadway and made it ground level, with trains and houses. Now your talking about adding a shit ton more in taxes instead of a road generating none
Environmental and social benefit of decreased sprawl not mentioned. I'm sure even with the recent fire it's been massively beneficial for Californians. Just update the code a bit.
Is that similar to how the Seattle Convention Center works?
parking parking parking basically and indegents living at times
I say put parking under the freeways and put other stuff where the parking lots are
We need the revenue from this..
I'm glad I'm from the bay area😊
I wqish the video said it more clearly, theres nothing inherently bad with these practices, it gets the state money and does have economic benefits, but there is a risk and some over sight, like routine inspections, should be conducted.
why not we're building parks under freeways
So you think a park is the same risk to the infrastructure that a factory is? Do you even have a brain?
This is disgusting. How did they get that land? From who did they take it from?
How many major fires have their been? 1, In 60ish years? seems safe enough.
"Interstate 10", you mean *THE* 10.
5:56 Why is that not the law by default?
Poor Cali they have such hard time collecting taxes. 😂😂
Take down the freeway and return the land back to the productive businesses and housing that as the before.
California legalizes motorcycle lane splitting.
Go to a city like London where there are a lot of overpasses for trains ( no, not the underground trains ). Under those overpasses are everything you can imagine. One of our favourite pubs there is under an overpass. It can be very valuable real estate and should be used as such.
A big difference is that people exiting a train are on foot, so it makes sense to have a lot of shopping within foot distance.
People exiting a freeway are in their car, and they tend to drive away.
@@RoadGuyRob I should have been more clear. The merchants under the overpasses in London are not there for the train or car passengers; they are there to service neighbourhood locals on foot.
@@DavidM2002that makes sense, from what I know you can only really buy airspace in Tokyo since the actual land value there is ludicrous.
Seeing the kind of junk being stored under the freeway kinda highlights how junky urban freeways are to begin with.
If Beverly Hills didn't want an urban freeway, what does that say about the effects of these highways in other parts of town without the money for lawyers?
I personally, don't mind the parking lot aspect of this type of thing. You already have a fairly large piece of property that isn't being used for anything useful. Now instead of taking a large parcel of land down the block and using that to create a massive parking lot, wasting space that could be used for development, using the land underneath the highway is quite a good idea.
Just don't allow battery powered cars to park there.
Except most land owners use it to “park long term” basically making legal junk yards under the freeways. The law needs clarification.
It sucks!
@@ShortArmOfGodDon’t allow Internal Combustion Engine cars there.
Clarify it the same way Nagasaki was cleared out. Gate Tower Building works fine, it just doesn't have Americans in it. Read a bit into how these American "freeways" were originally built and why all over the place.
Seeing how a colony like Hawaii was turned into the tourist hellhole it is after the Pearl Harbor, I'm sure Iraq could help you with some "urban planning"of your own. Just move any big shots out of the way first, so they can rent the space out later, like Hirohito did all the way until 1989. Civlians can eat dirt for the cause.
Perhaps we can build commercial underneath a rail line like in Japan
Except most of the rail seems to be At-grade... and HSR ain't got plans for above ground last I checked.
@@PrograError There's other options, like underground mall above underground rail lines, underground mall under roads, seen that in Taiwan, land value must be very high, so it make sense to built.
@@worawatli8952Above ground malls are already economically unviable.
A quick correction rob, the post office existed BEFORE 290 was built. The post office was built when they were planning on building the expressway, so that area was intentionally kept open for the future freeway: en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Chicago_Main_Post_Office
Thank you and Jesus bless 🙏
That's pretty neat
You are absolutely correct. Thanks for the correction.
I still feel that if the city is making money off increasing the risk to the infrastructure, they shouldn't get state or federal funds to help when that extra risk causes incidents like big fires weakening or collapsing the bridges. Or perhaps instead they should be required by law to set aside a portion of the money they're making for a rapid-response emergency repair fund.
What a novel idea. However, that kind of flies in the face of how California operates. Your problem is YOUR problem, but my problem is also YOUR problem.
The city isn't leasing the land, the state DOT is.
Contrary to what's implied in the video, this isn't all only about money. Land space in many of these areas is a very limited resource, and there is a lot of really valuable and potentially beneficial (for everyone) land under these freeways that would basically just be completely wasted otherwise. Not using these areas at all would result in increased property costs for everyone else in the area (making it harder for things like small businesses to stay in the area), and a lot more city sprawl, which also leads to increased traffic and congestion, etc, etc.
There actually are a number of entirely legitimate reasons why maximizing the useful space in the heart of the city is a valuable thing, for everyone. And the vast majority of the uses it's put to _do not actually increase the risk to infrastructure significantly at all._
Note also that a large portion of the money they make off of leasing the airspace actually _does_ go directly into infrastructure maintenance funds (including emergency funds), so they're basically _already doing exactly what you're suggesting_ anyway.
This is a situation where the rules may need to be tweaked somewhat, and possibly better enforcement applied, but the basic concept and use of the funds is really not actually the problem here, or a bad thing.
The state makes the money (not the city), FYI.
The airspace leases do have FHWA (Federal Highway Administration) permission since 1961. But the question of liability is valid.
How many huge fires have there been under the highways in CA? That have caused structural damage, requiring the highway to be shutdown for days, weeks, or months? It's the same as anything else in the world. If you rent a house and then burn it down due to your neglect, you are responsible for the damages, it is your responsibility to make sure things like a fire do not happen. So the risk of leasing the land vs any damage to the structure from neglect is very limited (who is going to spend millions on a factory to let it burn down?) and a money generator for the state for space that would otherwise become homeless encampments. I would say 90% of the fires in the Bay area are around and under our highways caused by homeless people living there....thus I would rather see businesses there than homeless encampments along the drive. And I believe the fire was an act of Arson for I10, which could happen regardless of the liability coverage for the highway infrastructure. Basically why not make money on that land when the liability of damage is so miniscule? Been in CA for 50+ years, and this is one of the rare times the highway infrastructure has been damaged so badly that they needed to close the highway, most the other time it is highways taken out by forest fires, mudslides, earthquakes, etc. If the state collects the lease money, then they do need to pay to get it fixed and they do have a slush fund put aside or things like this, its called insurance. Have worked for the government, there are things in place to cover expenses when things like this happens....not sure why everyone wants to believe people who claim there aren't.
Have you covered how Mexico City uses the space under overpasses? They built out retail space and rented it out, combined with parks, cafes etc. Lately they’ve also been adding vertical gardens to the support posts. Transforms a sketchy area into something desirable. Even if the city breaks even on rent it’s a net positive for the community.
Not yet. But that's a great idea that they do! Any examples I should check out on Google maps?
@@RoadGuyRob You can search for “bajo puente” or the restaurant El Huequito Juan Escutia. Located in the La Condesa neighborhood. I have only driven past it myself, but looks like a big improvement to the trash and homeless camps. Also check out Seattle’s I-5 Colonnade park with dirt bike trails and an off-leash dog park. So nice when it is raining in Seattle!
@@RoadGuyRoba California example could be the park under i5 bridges in Barrio Logan neighborhood in San Diego with painted murals
Seems like a density and mixed / more flexible land use thing. Strong Towns would likely approve.
I think shoddy contract work led to a collapse a few years ago in Mexico city. It was destructive.
In Japan they would often use these spaces for community wellness and sport parks such as soccer, tennis, & basketball courts, fully netted.
Actually good if the viaduct is seismically safe. In places less car-addicted, there are cafes under railway arches, apartments under rail viaducts in Japan (which are actually quiet inside)
That’s different. This trash also doesn’t allow the city to be able to check the concrete’s condition.
Also you don’t need freeway bridges if you build the freeway right, don’t build them straight through the city and you’ll be able to out the freeway on ground level. The netherlands and many other countries have this.
My first thought was about those tiny shops under the railways in Tokyo too.
I see you don't understand the difference between a cafe and a FACTORY.
@@steemlenn8797 Are those factories? No? Then it's nowhere near the same and you need to shush.
In Syracuse NY, they recently moved Route 690 to grade, removing the long bridge sections. They were mostly only a few feet off the ground, so no air space opportunities but they had to maintain these long sections like bridges and were literally only a few feet off the ground.
Really? Where on the route?
@@ryan225360 On the eastern part near 481. Between Teal and the 481 connection.
that sounds so pointless, glad they got rid of them either build it up higher enough to put things under it or jsut put it on grade or even below grade
Turning empty land into productive land is good though. Kinda weird to imply making money is bad
I think this video wasn't bashing the use of highway airspace but more about the misuse of that space. The pallets stacks being a key example of what not to use the space for.
Unfortunately, I've learned that if I don't make the title sound controversial I'll only have 10% the viewers.
The title is just a trick to get people into the longer video
@@RoadGuyRob I understand but the first half of the video it kinda implied cities have been crazy to be building things under freeways. It's not just the title
@@RoadGuyRob Wow, that’s a huge difference. Can’t blame ya then. Fortunately, I already knew they weren’t foolish, thanks to Betteridge's Law Of Headlines ("Any headline that ends in a question mark can be answered by the word no.")
Thank you Road Guy Rob. Because of your videos, I've learned so much about road engineering and road safety. Please don't stop making these videos, they're a great educational asset!
I'm so glad to hear that chris! Thank you
CalTrans should install fire suppression systems under the freeway where they lease. Raise rates a bit to cover the cost of install and maintenance. Require all lessees to have insurance in case the fire suppression system goes off and damages their stuff. Or if they lease the land below a freeway, additional fire protection coatings on all of the underside of those locations.
Or perhaps the state can do something about the people who started the fire.
Maybe require much higher insurance limits for leasees.
Problem isnt really the buildings, its the fact the roads cut right through vauable land and there's nowhere else to put them
hmmm, we should build buildings over this freeway yes...
other buildings: But I wanna see LA traffic!
okay fare enough... **about 60 years later**
I commented something similar on your previous I-10 fire video, but I like what the city of Charleston, WV did. They built a skate park under the viaduct that runs through the west side of town. It provides recreation to locals, encourages the community to take care of the space, and gives a good industrial backdrop for those hardcore skating videos.
There's a skate park like that in Boston as well.
I've spent time in both Paris and Tokyo.
In both they make fairly intensive use of space above freeways and rail infrastructure and below.
As someone who walks around those cities these then become places to interact with and are on a human scale.
For example, in the US as a pedestrian crossing under a freeway or wide railway is to pass by a lot of blank infrastructure.
In Tokyo there were shops and restaurants.
Plenty of places here in the US you are simply not meant to walk, but drive because “everyone has a car” and build around that assumption. One place near me had train tracks that got removed to build something else, but in the process they removed the sidewalk too. Its by a fenced park too so you would have to walk all the way around the park to reach bus stop at end of removed sidewalk.
During a doctor visit, i missed my bus stop by a stop so i decided to just walk back. It was very desolate pedestrian-wise and zero connection to anything you could walk to until you reach the hospital.
A more recent (or more accurately pre-existing problem worsening) problem with walking around here is the homeless. Both directly and indirectly. Indirectly they affect walking/buses because the city despises them but won’t fix it since its too costly. So, they do their best to make their life as miserable as they can by removing cover from the elements like bus stop shade, removing benches for the bus stops, and overall making it miserable to use bus transportation indirectly. Directly, the homeless seem to have raised their standard of living. Meaning rather than finding them laying around in random places, they now have tents or build sheds to live in out of trash they collect. Large enough structures to force you walk off the sidewalk in some places with high car traffic. They tend to group up which worsens the problem since you might have 100m of these structures adjacent to each other. Even a single of them can block off sidewalks if their committed to it. Seen one drag 6 shopping carts filled to the brim with trash. After 2 weeks they left but all the trash remained, no longer contained to the shopping carts but scattered across the street that again forces you off the side walk because their not always small items but pieces of wood, sofas, mattresses, and torn bags with junk.
@@popenieafantome9527 hopefully sprawl is repaired. shit its even possible to repair sprawl while preserving most preexisting buildings and still increase the density, malls/office parks especially are pieces of architecture that can be protected (office parks look a lot better than the exteriors of malls though)
As someone who commutes via the 110 everyday, it really is one hell of an ugly freeway. It feels dystopian when you take the in-streets parallel to it. I would love to see some development happen that isn't just junkyards, storage lots, or rundown concrete buildings. Maybe add some greenery.
In my city there's a whole hipstery street food market/boutique shopping complex under the A57(M) viaduct (known as Mancuinuan Way). I've been there a few times, it's a bit of a noisy place to eat!
I mean this an old ass solution, victorians did the same with the railtracks and I sure the romans did the same with the aqueducts
As a local truck driver here in Southern California it’s great to see someone reporting on our freeway system. Especially the downtown I 10
Good work Rob.
New Road Guy Rob at 3am?? Gotta watch immediately
Very much so
Maybe I'm speaking the obvious, but what jumps out to me is the image of the I-880 viaduct collapse during the 1989 Loma Prieta earthquake. So it's shocking to see the lax zoning that would essentially allow this to happen again.
I love your channel Rob! Thank you for making high quality, informative, and advertisement-free videos!!
One of the most famous examples of airspace rights is the Hanshin Expressway in Japan; one of its exits runs straight through the Gate Tower building. Well, technically the airspace rights are being leased to the Hanshin Expressway, not the other way around. At least what I heard.
That's amazing! I hope I can see Japan in person someday.
@@RoadGuyRob Maybe one day! Japan has a lot of cool technologies.
The actual towers used for cellular telephony are called _base towers._
Aren't those bridges supposed to be inspected annually? If those areas are closed off, how can they be reached for regular maintenance and repairs? What about painting the steel beams? Also concrete is porous, so the ceilings to these places probably experience a lot of ongoing moisture. I'm from Ohio and used to inspected bridges, so these are my biggest concerns. Of course we have a wetter climate and the winter freeze thaw cycles cause our bridges to decay faster.
The question is whether emergencies cause more economic damage to the city than can be recovered by business and property taxes. My suspicion is that such emergencies are exceedingly rare, and are more than compensated for by the increase in revenue from repurposing undervalued land.
I understand why this video is being made however if you think that the fire in California was started because of what was being stored under the bridge your brain needs to be extremely smooth and filled with worms.
It eould be interesting if the states abhorrent leases over the next 10 years.
Dont give Illinois or Louisiana this idea, they have literally holes in many of their bridges, you can look down and see a river about 60 feet down.
My question is so you build a factory let’s say under the freeway on your lease but they have to re-deck the road for some reason and the road deck is the roof to your factory. How is that gonna work out? How do you operate in your factory that you’ve leased While they work on the road
I think I've found the best balance between efficient and quality all concrete finished where the floor flat for ada and drains into holes in pipes in the basement built in rain gutters in the walls finish with wood and plastic and flat roof with railing height wall on the roof finish with detail instead of the sill plate and wood roof do a sideways wooden awning to make the warehouse precast look like a house like a small downtown buildings
Grreat video Rob explaining and breaking down the airspace development and such. I've also driven under the Walgreens in Reno countless times and always wondered why it was there, as it's so random haha. Thank you for explaining that!
You will find some of the London Underground will have business underneath the tracks.
Very common in Asia but I think there are businesses which are not suitable under the viaducts.
In Texas, I have seen a post office built under a Freeway.
Which city?
Can you do a video on why some states (California / Nevada) put a second Turn Signal Light on the pedestrian pole, and other states (Arkansas / Texas) do not? So TX/ AR only has one light to look at when you're turning left. So if the sun is right behind the light, you physically cannot see the turn light to know if you can go or not. In CA/NV, you have a second light to look at. I'd love to know why
Living in communistic California USA thank you Newsome
parking under feeeways? now they just need to add transit malls, and you've got a transition point from private car centric suburbs to transit/walking oriented downtowns.
just saying.
Has anyone noticed how many freeways have been closed due to these fires?
Where the hobos supposed to go? Oh yeah, 5 star hotels on tax payer dime.
in San Diego the Old Town transportation center seems to have a bunch of parking under a highway bridge
I won't surprise if they store Nuclear things there
Homeless people catch these areas on fire all the time
Most places seem to be able to rent out space under viaducts with little to no problems, japan, china, the old USSR even other american cities. Seems to be another on of those uniquely California problems
damn NIMBYs right?
China? You're trying to bring China into this like they're something to aspire to? The place that builds buildings that fall down in less than 5 years and is notorious for allowing toxic things to happen next to people's houses?
Also the USSR? LOL this is pure buffoonery.
Well California at Georgia at least. There was a fire that collapsed i-85 in Atlanta like 5 years ago.
In the US, we tend to be pretty lax on fire code stuff.
I'm all for better use of land, but they need to pay more attention to the safety. Also, junk storage isn't exactly a very valuable use... there's probably something better. Folks are paying more attention now, which is good. I wonder how many businesses are hearing about this now and thinking "we could lease that?"
I love your videos. I wish you would make them more often!
Here in Kansas City we just slapped a Observation Wheel right next to a high way bridge. And under the bridge they created a family friendly entertainment district. Look up Pennway Point
Watching this channel in juxtaposition with NotJustBikes is crazy. Everything in America is for money, always.
"The plots have to be open competitive bidding so no friend of city hall getting a good deal."
Correction: No *poor* friend of city hall is gonna get a good deal. Not that it would be the best idea to have public housing where you're going to get constant noise anyways.
There's a supermarket over the Massachusetts Turnpike (I-90) in Newton, MA, just outside of Boston.