The Better Bell Siphon
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 4 окт 2024
- www.BigelowBroo...
This is an explanation of how a traditional bell siphon operates. It goes into some of the physics of how the auto siphon gets started and stops. One of the biggest problems I've run into is getting them to stop properly on large grow beds. I've solved this problem with one simple little piece! It's so simple, I'm kicking myself for not figuring it out years ago!
This grow bed is using 3/4" pipe for the drain and standpipe with a 2" bell. The fill rate is LESS than 1/2 liter per minute and the siphon still starts with no problem. It's been running for about a week without any problems.
If you like this video please "like", comment and share. It helps a lot!
www.BigelowBroo...
/ bigelowbrook
![BabyChiefDoit - Too Slow (feat. STAR BANDZ) [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/zayaxws7RPg/mqdefault.jpg)
The number of hours I've spent looking for this solution. Thanks very much for such a clear explanation.
This is by far the best bell siphon demonstration I've seen on youtube, thanks!
I did modify the air tube. replaced flex hose w/ stainless steel tube (extra from homebrew siphon) then used a 3" piece of 1/2' copper with a cap. Fits like a glove but moves up and down easily and is stable. Have a pic, but don't know how to send it. Running for 4 days and extremely consistent. Thanks again. Love all your videos.
It definitely works! I had a bell siphon that was not breaking siphon. This one small addition fixed it. My siphon is now trustworthy rather that frustrating. Thankyou!!!!
When you get into larger grow beds (ours are 4'x30'), these mechanical solutions get cumbersome. We use simple cycle timers to fill the beds rapidly and then turn the pump off and allow to drain. The nice thing about a cycle timer is you can adjust times between fills, and by adjusting the valve on the drain, can adjust how fast or slow the bed drains.
Great video! was not getting what the elbow turn thing at the bottom was supposed to do until i saw this video
I have the same problem...water drains from growbed too slow thus air sucked by breather tube not enough to stop siphon action.
your solution is awesome...I will try it on my system!
please see the other comments about Affnan's siphon.. His will work for most applications, but it doesn't meet my needs for a very slow fill rate. Also, I've been using breather tubes for a few years and never had a problem with them clogging. Thanks!
this video of your bell siphon design just solved the problem that has been bugging me for days... thanks a lot...
Our 3rd most viewed video for 2013 was "The Better Bell Siphon". This video shows a little physics about how a real bell siphon operates and then a little float that I use to help guarantee it will stop. There were a lot of skeptic folks out there that didn't believe it would work, but then I started to get a lot of people writing say that this design is a life saver! 83,601 views this year (109,473 total). The Better Bell Siphon I also did a followup video about it that you can find here: How To Build a Bell Siphon
I have been doing a lot of research to find the best way to build and begin my aquaponics system. This seems to be the best siphon that I have seen. Will DEFINITELY be using this once begin my build!
Thanks....I've been using this in my newer system for about 6 months and it has never failed. Even changing the flow rates hasn't phased it.
I have large grow beds with high flow rates and the bell siphons were getting stuck. I added breather tubes with a floating cup and it works perfectly. Thanks for the advice.
Great idea. I´ll try the next season. My system is very small, but from the beginning I had problems with the sizing of the siphon, and often the problem occurs that the siphon does not cut or start well.
I am preparing a video to share what I have achieved, because your job is being a great inspiration for me, but small-scale ...
Excellent innovation - I messed with this problem for ages and finally got it by fiddling with the incoming flow-rate - BUT - your enhancement with the cup looks like the answer to the problem of breaking the syphon cleanly. Will try it out on my grow-beds asap.
Many thanks :-)
Thank you for doing this video, you gave me some useful information, really appreciate you making the video. I have been going soing well for several months no issue with my bell siphon then suddenly having issues. Your video gave me a project to create an "cup" to hold water under the siphon thru three 90 degrees elbows, thanks, I hope this solves my challenges for my water to stop flowing
Best 12 year old video I have seen in a while!
Thanks, after adding pebbles I had the same problem. Applied your solution and works great. For the trap underneath, I used a formed single pipe (3/4) that they sell for condensation exhaust on HVAC units. cheap and good-looking. Once again, thanks.
Your brilliance is dazzling to me! Such great insight you were able to gain! Cheers!
These are fairly standard fittings that are used for going through large plastic tanks. Here in the US we call them bulkhead fittings. A different type of fitting is a uniseal. I've also seen people take a make and female fittings used for plastic electrical conduit if the wall is thin enough.
You sound like a very nice and smart young man. You did a great job. Your family should be very proud. I will try to use this for my system. Thank you.
This is an excellent modification. I've always had siphon problems because of inconsistent water flow. Your trap and floating cup let the siphon have the 'abrupt' changes of pressure that let it work every time, even when the water input flow is low.
Genius! I don't have a particularly large bed, but I have had the same issue with the siphon slowing down but not cutting off every time.
Hi! Great modification! Most of my bell siphons work great, but the only problem occuring is indeed the breaking of the siphon when the water flow changes. Thanks! Thumbs up for the inventors.
Thanks a lot. Once I added my gravel my siphon would not shut off properly. I added a free floating cup (1/2 inch PVC Cap) and it worked like a charm. In my opinion it sure beats trying to adjust all the other possible variable. Cheers!
Excellent! I have been bitten by the Aquaponics bug and I think you just saved me a whole lot of heartache! Thanks so much!
Very helpful. Solved the problem that my siphon could not restart.
That's a good cycle time. Mine are about once an hour. I'm happy to hear you're using this style of siphon...a lot of people have told me it's too complicated but I have never had a problem with it...except for the roots. ;-)
Great idea! I will use it and pass it on to anyone else who is interested. Thanks for sharing.
Dude your really onto something amazing and the potential that can come forth from your idea could be huge.... mainly because its so simple and works if your there or not.... I’ve always thought or wondered about the potential for being able to have fine control of a bell siphon in action.......think about it In society..... (an this is just an off the cuff example.). water tower supplies water to a neighborhood... the tower suddenly is full.. bell siphon starts , neighborhood has water...., now water can be resupplied to tower or not in small or large amounts, anytime ,wont effect the neighborhood whatsoever....., everyone has water until its empty,,,, well it empty’s......no water until it fills again...... suddenly you put In an additional water tower.... now you can supply a neighborhood , garden, desal plant, pigeon farm or whatever. ..with a continuous constant supply of water ,, with no pumps, no power, almost no valves.... and the tower is just an example,,, it could be a water truck parked on a hill,, or a building on a hill, or a tower next to an artisan well or stream..... anyway its just my example of how what your delving into here ,, could be onto something big....email me if you would like to put some pencil to paper an hurl some ideas at one another.! Thanx for upload! JackFleck@ymail.com
good point on not being able to turn it. That "feature" sure does come in handy!
I like to set it around the height of the top of the stand pipe. This help minimize the amount of suction that it has to do to get the water through the breather tube. If you set it too high, it can sometimes not have enough suction to remove the water from the cup.
Thanks! That was so informative and practical. Simple explanation and clear visuals! I'll be back when I actually build it.
1) when you run it to the top, it injects the air directly where the siphon needs to break (where the water will "split" and go down the standpipe and also drop back through the bell). this is the quickest way to get it to stop. If you have it lower, it will just send a lot of bubbles up through the bell.
2) I've had breather tubes in the same bells for a few years and they are perfectly clean. There's enough flow through them that it sucks the bioslime out of them.
Excellent idea.... elegant yet simple.
Great idea
Love it bro. been trying for 3 days to get mines going. looked at your video and now i can rest!! Thanks a lot for posting!!
Great work. I have battled with bell siphon from day 1. I like what I see here Thanks
Bel Siphons are cool and your solution was smart.
I just put a bunch of fittings together as close as possible to make the the trap. The distance that the water has to get pushed up through the trap is about the same distance below the growbed's water line the top of the standpipe should be. A few experiments and you can fine-tune the length!
Hi Meg! Once I put in my beds that were over 20 sq ft I started hitting this problem. Non of my beds that are 15 sqft and under have ever had this problem. I think it's from the fill rate + the rate the water is "dripping" off the stone + the overall area which makes the water level not go down fast enough to break the siphon properly. I've seen this complaint on the forums several times over the years and didn't think much of it until it started to happen to me!
thanx for the quick response- ill try it with the cup addon soon, let you know how it works out,thanks again...
Instead of a floating cup, I found that by running the tube through the bell. From there it is routed from the top to the bottom of the stand pipe. (like a pipe inside a pipe) this way the slits on the bottom of the bell break the siphon instead of the breather tube. The physics of the tube are not for to break siphon but rather allow the water level to rise before sealing off air flow to the bell thus increasing the pressure inside the bell and so on. You can adjust the level of water inside the grow bed by changing the length of the tube.
I have found that by either lowering or raising the drain pipe at the bottom of the siphon you can adjust the problem of the siphon getting stuck either at the low position of water or high position.
They can be purchased at Home Depot or Lowes in the plumbing department. There's usually a rack of little fittings.
An air lock cup on the exit will be necessary if the flow rate is too low for the diameter of the foot tube/ low end. If the flow rate is too low, air bubbles will rise up the foot tube and break the siphon. A cup of water at the exit will prevent air bubbles out of the foot tube. I discovered this using slow flowing in line water filters.
Thanks! I like the updated video footage - makes the whole thing quite clear. I also like how the P-trap makes the siphon start up so well.
It's used to create a little back pressure inside the bell so it will "burp" as the water level rises.
Thank you for this, now I know how to fix my bell siphon.
About to attempt my first aquaponics setup and your videos have been my "must-see" prep videos =)
I am sure your videos will be saving lots of my future aquaponics nightmares
I really appreciate these videos. I hope you continue to make them.
Another helpful hint if your siphon is playing up try a weight on top of the bell
Also, I debated adding a couple of little pieces of foam to the top of the cup to keep it upright. I still may try it.
Nice floating cup fix!
-Bullwinkle II
I applaud your ingenuity! Excellent work! I loved your explanation diagrams; they perfectly explain the whole concept. Thank You!
the best part of aquaponics is in creating a custom application that works for you; it helps justify the $10 tomatoes. :-)
there are many different designs that work flawlessly. mine are much simpler and have been up and running for 3yrs. With that being said you have put a lot into your design and you have produced a well explained video, nice job.
Very nice videos please don't stop posting them for beginners like me they are very helpful
nice job again and greetings from mexico
Cool, maybe add some string or something to keep the cup loosely in place... to make it easier to install and remove ;-) when that growbed is thick and lush with greenery you may be glad as access is reduced if you need to remove for some reason. Thanks for the great update.
The bed in this video is 20 sq ft (1.85 sq meter). I have another one that is 47 sq ft (4.37 sq meters). When It's all done, I will have two 20 sq ft ones and three 47 sq ft beds.....and a bunch of DWC beds.
Thanks for sharing. I may run into this problem when I setup a bigger aquaponics system.
Have you ever looked up water surges? There's plenty of hobbyist that use this to create waves in their fish tanks. The surge is placed above the display tank. In your situation the garden table would act as the surge and it would dump water into your sump. It's much more affordable because it requires half the plumbing and works great every single time.
Bell siphon practice very good, i has aslo aquaponic us bell siphon. Video very wonderful
very use full for my large grow bed...thank you
Interesting...very simple and it works,can't beat that.
By golly that worked! I used a plastic cup to test it but it worked! Thank you!
Thanks! If you're ever in New England, stop by!
it's a 6" pipe. Then it's offset from the stand pipe so it all fits in. It could fit in a 4" pipe, but it's a tight squeeze. I like the 6" so I can get my hands down in there.
Some people don't think the trap is necessary whereas I like them. Instead of making it the sideways "S" shape like shown, you can twist the pieces around so it makes a loop and the exit of the pipe is almost the same spot as the drain. Either way, it doesn't take up much space. Just set it up where you can remove the trap and try it both ways! ;-)
very good idea...for when your pump is fast in re-filling...not good...GREAT idea!!! thank you for your input...
+1 That seems to be a common problem...people get the siphons working properly then add the media and it stops working. ;-) Glad my little trick helped!
I have never seen this before!! Im going to try it! Thanks!
Yes, I'm familiar with affnan's siphons. I'm fairly sure that the flow rate with this type can be much less his - i'm trying to get my system to use minimal amount of flow to save energy. Regardless, either type would work for most applications.
yup! Most of the video is shot....just trying to find the time to put it all together.
I'm fairly sure I had posted on the BYAP site. As usual, most people bashed it...the few that tried it, loved it. ;-)
USING A TIMER
I had the same problem as yourself - the flow rate was about the same as the syphon rate. The trays would fill. Then the bell would kick in and suck the tray down to the point the siphon should have broke.
At the end, when the tray level was near drained, the bell would continue to suck air and water and the trays would not start to fill up again for a very long time.
Slowing down the flow rate did work but it still took ages for the syphon to break.
I did look for answers on RUclips but could not find anything (I obviously did not manage to flag any of your hyperlink words).
Back to basics - one way a syphon can stop, is when it runs out of fluid.
One way to make sure that happens is to stop the water pump.
I timed how long it takes for the trays to fill (just over 10 minutes in my case.)
A mechanical plug-in 24 hour timer has 15 minute segments (budget ones have half hour segments). It was a simple decision process deciding to use a timer to control the pump so it would shut off (for a short time) after the beds were full.
The pump runs for 15 minutes and in that time the beds have filled and the bell has started syphoning. For the next 15 minutes the pump is off and during that time the trays will have drained and the syphon is broken completely.
This means it takes about 20 minutes between the time the syphon is broken until the beds are full again.
I have found that the beds stay moist using this cycle. What the long term effects on the beds will be, have yet to be seen (this is my first Aquaponics project).
Problems I can see with my method is -
* Increasing wear and tear on the pump as it stops and starts.
* Loss of moisture in the bed as the weather gets hotter (spring here just now),
* Cannot use larger trays for any future additions to the aquaponics system.
On the plus side -
* Greatly reduced the electricity used by the water pump. I will look at what happens when I have the pump shut down for longer intervals - maybe 30 or 45 minutes. I am aware that biomass needs constant waterflow. However, the microbes and algae will survive up to an hour without any water flow.
It is worth noting that my tray system works on a very small scale so I designed a very small bell syphon (with no Break Tube). If the trays do not stay moist enough for the plants I will have to redesign the method for breaking the syphon.
Yep. Tried this and it solved all my problems with my grow bed.
Excellent design worthy of an award or parade in your honor or some shit.
This is ingenious. Thanks for the ideas! I'll be using this technique on my other 6 growbeds that I'm constructing.
I've never heard of problems with grow bed sizes. If you have a larger bed, you reduce the amount of space between beds...giving you more root space per square foot. I've seen some big media beds and they run just fine. Maybe people use the smaller beds because it was the only way they could get the siphons to work....?
Very clear.. simple to built, yet very effective... thanks.
This siphon should work just fine with it! It's all standard parts you can get at any hardware store too. Just experiment with the standpipe height a bit (don't glue it in!!!) before filling the bed with media.
I think you meant a 4" media guard. Yes if you make it oval, it will all fit, but It's really nice to use the 6" so you can get your hands down in there.
Ive been watching all your videos and i have to say that they are some of the best aquaponics,greenhouse videos ive seen. i am very impressed with all the thought and work that you've put in to making your dream greendome. i have an aquaponics greenhouse as well but you give me a lot to think about for my next greenhouse. keep the videos coming. i cant get enough.
I suppose that could be the case, but these run perfectly fine as-is.
In deed the best explanation on YT, thanks.
I've used the Affnan siphon and it works fine. I just prefer to use a true bell siphon. I"m willing to wager that this siphon can start with a slower fill rate too. ;-)
Genius. I'm pretty stoked that I found this vid. Thanks
I am trying to get a very low flow rate in the beds so I can run smaller pumps which consume less power. This greenhouse will be off-grid so I need to save as much energy as possible. Pumps are a huge waste!
You're a genius! I'll try this.
Making my siphon! Thanks for the cap tip it works awesome!
There never is only one right answer! By the way, your geo-dome greenhouse is SERIOUSLY the most awesome greenhouse I've ever seen! And I've seen a lot of greenhouses, and worked in more than my fair share of them ;)
There's a media guard around it. The weight of the PVC keeps it from floating...barely. I do put a small rock on top of it. ;-)
Sorry, It's mostly for air. The nutrients will have no problem getting around in a bed that constantly flooded. In DWC, you usually have to keep bubblers in the water to keep it oxygen rich. In my system, I flood and drain the beds which drain into a DWC. This action provides enough O2 for the DWC so I don't have to waste electricity with any bubblers.
Seems to me that this is a great idea, though I think a couple changes might help.
First, the cup floating up and down has pretty much nothing to do with its functioning. Just put a container of the right height on the bottom of the media bed, put the end of the hose in it so that it won't suction to the bottom (or better, scallop cut the bottom of the tube.) Then, you can cover it with media (that is too large to get sucked up the tube of course) which would remove a place for algae to grow. Once the water gets low enough, the buried container will be sucked empty, air will flow up the tube and stop the siphon. Since the container will be buried in the media, as soon as the water gets deep enough it will fill, and the cycle will be ready again.
Nevermind about the algae part. I see the cup is inside the guard.
A couple of comments on the design.
1) Do you really need the small tube run clear to the top? Could you not run it to the side of the pipe and accomplish the same thing? Air will rise to the top.
2) Could you accomplish the same thing that the cup is doing by drilling a hole (or holes) in the wall of the outer pvc pipe? I would be concerned that the bacterial slime will build up in the clear tubing. Bigger is better when it comes to piping in aquaponics due to slime and sediment buildups.
Very cool. Does the cup have to rise and fall? Surely, if the water is being sucked out of a small fixed cup at a reasonable rate then it would behave in the same way?
Also, thinking about the faff of more fittings to get the breather tube into the top of the bell, could you cable-tie the breather tube up the side of the stand pipe then poke it out at the bottom of the bell (where the bottom vents are)?
Just musings, not criticisms at all. Keep up the great work and thank you for sharing!
There's a media guard around it. You can see me putting it in near the end of the video.
Your problem was having a large bed ... but I doubt if my bed is too small to offer sufficient pressure. So should I get a larger bed ?
Thank you so much this information is extremely useful to me
It took me a little bit to understand some of the principles.. length of tubes, holes and the one thing I missed the "trap." I created my trap by arching a piece of black hose connected to a 90 degree elbow. Once that was done every once of water was sucked out and the syphon stopped properly.
Sedona Creations ~ Michael
I having the same problem. I will try it out!
AWESOME VIDEO!! Answered a lot of questions I had about siphoning. I love your design and am going to use it! No glue used I like that a great deal.