Thank you David on your insights on the subtleties of Grieg's Peer Gynt. I believe subtlety is one of the most important tools of any art, including music, poetry; even in some of the Psalms in the Bible. I am new to your podcast. Lucky me!
I'm one of those people who can, for instance, watch a magician and not need to know how the trick is done. Same with music - if it's beautiful or moving, I don't care why, I just enjoy.
David, This is a great idea for a great series. Thank you for making great music accessible. I get ahead of myself, but I look forward to your advice on engaging with avant-garde pieces that reveal no motive, theme, tune or even logic unless you read the slopes of its sheet music.
Saint-Saen's remark immediately makes me think of that amazing series of chords--all harmony and kaleidescopic orchhestration and no melody whatever, just whole notes on the page--in Britten's Billy Budd just before the final scene. Chokes me up every time.
A little off-topic but related to harmony- Martinu's First Cello Sonata (Angelica May), a great illustration of the power of harmony and how it penetrates the whole piece from beginning to end and makes it worthwhile.
Great show! Any comments on the value of having to listen to a piece many times to get it? Sometimes I have a hard time noticing the themes, and when the recapitulation begins, development ends, etc.
Yes, sometimes you have to keep on listening, over and over and over. Sometimes the effort will be worth it, and sometimes not. It's different for everyone.
Great talk. Thank you for this! Norwegian here - I just want to comment on the idea that without Grieg's music this would be like a million touching death scenes. No, not really. What happenes here is the final stage of the tragedy of the Gynt family. Peer's father was an alcoholic who ruined the farm, so Peer and his mother Aase (by the way aa is pronounced like "a" in "war") both escaped from the harsh reality by living in a dream world. Peer is a great liar, a master of great imagination. Ibsen creates wonderful poetry (for someone Norw. at least) in the fantastic stories that Peer tells Aase. Now, in the death scene, he tells another story about riding to Heaven where Aase is greeted with costly wine and sweet cakes. St. Peter would not let her in, but God Father himself overruled that doorkeeper. Then, having provided his mother with a "beautiful death", he leaves it to a poor woman living near by to have her buried. He wants to leave the country - like Ibsen did himself - and cannot wait. We have been told that Ibsen was not too happy with Grieg's music. Maybe this piece is just too beautiful for the scene? The irony of it all disappears. So, let beauty reign supreme.
i found this piece haunting more than mountain king. it's so creepy. grieg was a genius. btw, can u explain the significance of the borg. im confused what the story is about. all i know is peer kidnaps a bride, runs away, meets the troll daughhter, runs to desert, serenades syliva, gets shipwrecked,. then dies in his true love's arms. from the writer of a doll's house, i know there's a deeper meaning to this, i just don''t know what
@@onlygiovanniallthetime Thanks for your interest! Peer is saved by Solveig's love when he returns home an old and broken man. This is the arch romantic theme of men being saved by women, like Wagner's cursed Dutchman is saved by Senta, also Norwegian we are told, sacrificing herself. I have never noticed this tendency to sacrifice in Norw. girls. As you hinted, this is surprising stuff for a playwright with a reputation as kind of feminist. No doubt he changed his perspecting. A Doll's House was written 12 years after Peer Gynt. the Boyg is the most mysterious character in this play, there are many of them. It is a figure from Scandinavian folklore. Here it is a big slimy snake with a clear message: Bypass. do not fight or resist in any way. This comes directly after the episode with the Mountain king. Peer has to chose between marrying the king's daughter and become a troll himself or stay human. He never makes that choice. Better not to choose, says the Boyg. Peer tries to kill him but the monster behaves like he preaches - he says he wins without fighting. Peer is about to commit a self-sacrifice, he wants to taste his own blood. That one is rather deep Then suddenly church bells are heard and the Boyg dwindles to dust, declaring: "He was too strong. There were women behind him." So, there we are again. Peer Gynt is great about all for the language - an overflow of Norw. idioms are created here, and also anti-nationalistic. the mountain king is the true nationalist. Ibsen was the exception among Norw. writers in that period for mocking nationalism. Later he moved on to darker things.
If it still helps (2 years later...), i found the St Saens quote, from chapter XI of "musical memories": Music is something besides a source of sensuous pleasure and keen emotion, and this resource, precious as it is, is only a chance corner in the wide realm of musical art. He who does not get absolute pleasure from a simple series of well-constructed chords, beautiful only in their arrangement, is not really fond of music.
A big big THANK YOU, Mr. Hurwitz, for this marvelous new series! What a joy listening to your most entertaining way of talking about music. You always are coming to the point that matters most. Here a second thought esp. for part (1): Music without words: it makes a big difference if we have a tone poem (e.g. Delius: In a Summer Garden) or absolute music (e.g. Beethovens 2nd symphony). Both have no words, but in the first case we get a frame for our imagination, we are not totally guideless; in the second case music is (a) more self-referential to it‘s formal elements and (b) limitless to our inner world. But if we are not used to go inside of us, there is a possibility that we only can relate to basic emotions but cannot unfold them. Perhaps I‘m totally wrong - but I‘m always thankful for a „frame“. In your example there is one. - Please pardon my bad English. Greetings from Berlin, Harry
I think you also hit on the fact of why so much pop music is terrible: no harmony, no distinctiveness, all sound like the same recycled junk. Then again pop musicians do not spend years and years actually "studying" music, much less harmony. They just get up there and scream into a microphone or gyrate their hips with a mind-numbing bass beat behind them (the same beat used by record producers over and over). I don't know when being learned or skilled or sophisticated came to mean "unpopular" and when being brainless came to being the height of music-making. Just makes me sad. There's nothing comparable to it in other fields. It's as if the public readily expected (and enjoyed) a book written by a 9-year-old to be better than Shakespeare or Tolstoy. Perhaps the sciences will be next? We'll see the gradual dumbing down of next-level medicine and energy potentialities in favor of keeping everyone "equal" and ignorant. Everyone's a "genius," eh?
David Hurwitz is THE best communicator, with a total command of the English language. Thus his reviews are laced with big words. BRAVO to you, David
Great series. I adore your contagious passion for the music.
Thank you David on your insights on the subtleties of Grieg's Peer Gynt. I believe subtlety is one of the most important tools of any art, including music, poetry; even in some of the Psalms in the Bible. I am new to your podcast. Lucky me!
Im watching this series all over again its so great!
Thank you!
I'm one of those people who can, for instance, watch a magician and not need to know how the trick is done. Same with music - if it's beautiful or moving, I don't care why, I just enjoy.
Same here.
Likewise.
David, This is a great idea for a great series. Thank you for making great music accessible. I get ahead of myself, but I look forward to your advice on engaging with avant-garde pieces that reveal no motive, theme, tune or even logic unless you read the slopes of its sheet music.
My advice: PANIC!
Saint-Saen's remark immediately makes me think of that amazing series of chords--all harmony and kaleidescopic orchhestration and no melody whatever, just whole notes on the page--in Britten's Billy Budd just before the final scene. Chokes me up every time.
A little off-topic but related to harmony- Martinu's First Cello Sonata (Angelica May), a great illustration of the power of harmony and how it penetrates the whole piece from beginning to end and makes it worthwhile.
Thanks David! As a relative beginner I really appreciate these talks. I haven't been able to find anything comparable on YT.
You're very welcome!
Thank YOU for this one Dave ! - I'm not sure I understand IT - But I'm sure as pure - FEEELING it
Then you are understanding it!
@@DavesClassicalGuide tears - happy
Another cogent episode in an already great series. Thanks much, David.
Great show! Any comments on the value of having to listen to a piece many times to get it? Sometimes I have a hard time noticing the themes, and when the recapitulation begins, development ends, etc.
Yes, sometimes you have to keep on listening, over and over and over. Sometimes the effort will be worth it, and sometimes not. It's different for everyone.
I would really love you to discuss the Ellington interpretation of Peer Gynt! That’s Great Music!
Yes, it is.
Great talk. Thank you for this! Norwegian here - I just want to comment on the idea that without Grieg's music this would be like a million touching death scenes. No, not really. What happenes here is the final stage of the tragedy of the Gynt family. Peer's father was an alcoholic who ruined the farm, so Peer and his mother Aase (by the way aa is pronounced like "a" in "war") both escaped from the harsh reality by living in a dream world. Peer is a great liar, a master of great imagination. Ibsen creates wonderful poetry (for someone Norw. at least) in the fantastic stories that Peer tells Aase. Now, in the death scene, he tells another story about riding to Heaven where Aase is greeted with costly wine and sweet cakes. St. Peter would not let her in, but God Father himself overruled that doorkeeper. Then, having provided his mother with a "beautiful death", he leaves it to a poor woman living near by to have her buried. He wants to leave the country - like Ibsen did himself - and cannot wait.
We have been told that Ibsen was not too happy with Grieg's music. Maybe this piece is just too beautiful for the scene? The irony of it all disappears. So, let beauty reign supreme.
Thank you for that. I know what really happens...I was just making the point, as I'm sure you understand.
i found this piece haunting more than mountain king. it's so creepy. grieg was a genius.
btw, can u explain the significance of the borg. im confused what the story is about.
all i know is peer kidnaps a bride, runs away, meets the troll daughhter, runs to desert, serenades syliva, gets shipwrecked,. then dies in his true love's arms. from the writer of a doll's house, i know there's a deeper meaning to this, i just don''t know what
@@onlygiovanniallthetime Thanks for your interest! Peer is saved by Solveig's love when he returns home an old and broken man. This is the arch romantic theme of men being saved by women, like Wagner's cursed Dutchman is saved by Senta, also Norwegian we are told, sacrificing herself. I have never noticed this tendency to sacrifice in Norw. girls. As you hinted, this is surprising stuff for a playwright with a reputation as kind of feminist. No doubt he changed his perspecting. A Doll's House was written 12 years after Peer Gynt.
the Boyg is the most mysterious character in this play, there are many of them. It is a figure from Scandinavian folklore. Here it is a big slimy snake with a clear message: Bypass. do not fight or resist in any way. This comes directly after the episode with the Mountain king. Peer has to chose between marrying the king's daughter and become a troll himself or stay human. He never makes that choice. Better not to choose, says the Boyg. Peer tries to kill him but the monster behaves like he preaches - he says he wins without fighting. Peer is about to commit a self-sacrifice, he wants to taste his own blood. That one is rather deep Then suddenly church bells are heard and the Boyg dwindles to dust, declaring: "He was too strong. There were women behind him." So, there we are again. Peer Gynt is great about all for the language - an overflow of Norw. idioms are created here, and also anti-nationalistic. the mountain king is the true nationalist. Ibsen was the exception among Norw. writers in that period for mocking nationalism. Later he moved on to darker things.
If it still helps (2 years later...), i found the St Saens quote, from chapter XI of "musical memories": Music is something besides a source of sensuous pleasure and keen emotion, and this resource, precious as it is, is only a chance corner in the wide realm of musical art. He who does not get absolute pleasure from a simple series of well-constructed chords, beautiful only in their arrangement, is not really fond of music.
Thanks! It always helps.
A big big THANK YOU, Mr. Hurwitz, for this marvelous new series! What a joy listening to your most entertaining way of talking about music. You always are coming to the point that matters most.
Here a second thought esp. for part (1): Music without words: it makes a big difference if we have a tone poem (e.g. Delius: In a Summer Garden) or absolute music (e.g. Beethovens 2nd symphony). Both have no words, but in the first case we get a frame for our imagination, we are not totally guideless; in the second case music is (a) more self-referential to it‘s formal elements and (b) limitless to our inner world. But if we are not used to go inside of us, there is a possibility that we only can relate to basic emotions but cannot unfold them. Perhaps I‘m totally wrong - but I‘m always thankful for a „frame“. In your example there is one. - Please pardon my bad English. Greetings from Berlin, Harry
Great stuff!
I think you also hit on the fact of why so much pop music is terrible: no harmony, no distinctiveness, all sound like the same recycled junk. Then again pop musicians do not spend years and years actually "studying" music, much less harmony. They just get up there and scream into a microphone or gyrate their hips with a mind-numbing bass beat behind them (the same beat used by record producers over and over). I don't know when being learned or skilled or sophisticated came to mean "unpopular" and when being brainless came to being the height of music-making. Just makes me sad. There's nothing comparable to it in other fields. It's as if the public readily expected (and enjoyed) a book written by a 9-year-old to be better than Shakespeare or Tolstoy. Perhaps the sciences will be next? We'll see the gradual dumbing down of next-level medicine and energy potentialities in favor of keeping everyone "equal" and ignorant. Everyone's a "genius," eh?