A PV Expert finds the flaws in my system
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- Опубликовано: 7 сен 2024
- Welcome Kevin, a solar PV expert. Kevin went through my system and pointed out the flaws in it. He also let me know what I need to do to fix it.
These are used solar panels I bought on craigslist. I'm doing this project for cheap. I built the ground mount for free out of pallets. I build this myself, DIY. This is not grid-tied, it is off-grid.
Very good that Kevin actually had understood the physics and not just refered to "codes". I like that.
I appreciate all the data I can gather on solar...I live in a camper, trying to get independent from the grid...thank you very much for sharing!! 😊
Thanks for taking the time/energy to have someone knowledgeable check your work and pass along the issues that could cause problems later. Too often, these critiques aren't addressed and others may simply copy work that is not as good as it could be. In addition to helping you, Kevin has helped everyone who bothered to watch your video. Kudos guys!
Thanks Mark. I was lucky Kevin could come over and give advice. He does this for a living and knows quite a bit more than me on solar PV.
Solar "professional" can't be argued with, lol. He gave a great presentation, even with some "uh's & um's".
Thank you Kevin for sharing your knowledge with us.
Great job by both of you. Kevin is a very effective communicator.
Man thanks for that, my system has about (all) the same corrections to be done... thank you!
Turn the panels upside down so that the cables come out at the bottom, resulting in a shorter cable run. (Shorter run = more efficiency.)
He cheated... He just bullied and verbally abused the wires to lower their resistance
A well engineered system is a joy to behold and a nightmare avoided.
The reason for metal conduits is twofold: circuit protection, as well as protection of the building against wiring that catches fire. Thermal expansion isn't that consequential when you have bends which absorb that.
I'm not kidding. This was fascinating. Great to have an critique by an expert. I hung on every word. Thanks!
You and me both! I love learning from people in the industry.
Thanks!!! I’m researching DIY. Very helpful!!! Save my money AND safety and health.
Great work. No one knows everything. We keep learning further.
I love that spirit 👍
It’s helpful to see where you started i this video! I’m trying to get started on building my own solar system in a budget, but so many of the videos I’m finding are of more advanced setups. So thanks!
Fantastic, this filled in the gaps of my knowledge perfectly. Great follow up, thanks for posting it!
Thank you for this info. 2 of the points he mentioned was useful and applied to my small system.
VERY NICE INFORMATIVE VIDEO. Thanks for sharing.
Just learnt something great about solar panel installation. thanks
glad he didn't focus too much on the angle, it shows he knows it doesn't matter that much, but partial shading matters more
You can improve both your safety (when working on the system) and the energy production of the cells in one move. Make a shade-panel that you can place over the front of each solar panel to prevent it producing energy while you're working on the system. If you hinge the shade-panel at the bottom of each solar panel, so it swings down, out of the way, you can make the inside of the shade-panel reflective so it increases the light falling on the solar panels.
On the question of series v parallel connections. You can do both.
You seem to have 12 panels - assuming they're 12 V each, you can have;
12 in series = 144 V lowest current, thinnest wires, biggest shock danger.
6 in series, in parallel with 6 in series = 72 V
4 in series, in parallel with 4 in series, in parallel with 4 in series = 48 V (my choice).
3 is, ipw 3 is, ipw 3 is, ipw 3 is = 36 V
2 is, ipw, 2 is, ipw 2 is, ipw 2 is, ipw 2 is, ipw 2 is = 24 V, or
12 in parallel = 12V highest current, thickest wires, no shock danger [1], biggest sparks [2]
[1] unless it's raining. [2] Arc welders are low voltage, high current machines, eg 5 V, 50 A.
My safety limit for live working is 55 V (ac or dc). Solar panels do not have an off switch: if they are lit, they can generate energy, thus the are "live".
I would not work on a battery or solar system above 50 V dc, no, thank you - and I've worked on MW systems up to 20 kV dc, and 11 kV ac.
Thanks.
"4 in series, in parallel with 4 in series, in parallel with 4 in series = 48 V (my choice)."
+1. 48V was what the old telephone lines (in US) used, right? A ring would give our parents a quick wake up call but not kill them. And it's about the same voltage as PoE uses now. Seems about the highest multiple of 6V before things get terminal.
Grid-tie inverters often need at least 250V DC to even work and work best around 600 Volts. Series/ parallel decisions I think should be based upon what voltage and amperage the inverter works best on. Also, typical solar panels have an open clamp voltage of 40 Volts (60 cells), 12V panels are really niche. Of course you should think about safety, but it's not a feasible solution to go low on voltage.
Here in the state of Texas when I put up my solar panels my property taxes soared.I took them down to lower my property taxes.Property taxation is a real threat to green energy.
Instead of LOWERING them to support such trend, they seem to want to punish energy independence.
sounds very texas, not surprised...you should move
Looks like big corporations have control over state officials ,bribed paid off ,need to be voted out .
Could just be the county fucking with you. Local government.. go talk to somebody
Are taxes a backhanded slap at PV? Sorta like we dont want to be seen as opposing PV but we will make it hard in a oblique way.
Kevin's discussion was very good. Liked the difference between serial and parallel that was new to me. I believe your panels are poly and wish he would go over that, and why Mono is better than these.
In Palm Springs CA, that grounding wire is a minimum #8 copper from both the array to the Inverter and between the Inverter, and entry panel or sub-panel of the house. The Iron Ridge racks I'm using includes every nut, bolt and grounding washer and lug, all of air-craft quality and a decent system of clips and clamps, to keep the wires in place. The racks were $1200 alone, on this 5.1 kw system and money well spent. Good to 110 mph or Hurricane level 3 and assembly is "Ikea" simple, plus the permit requires various details which were all engineered into the system. Inspectors just glance at it when they see the invoice.
Over all I thought it was pretty informative. BUT, don't let the parallel/serial comments sway you. He did not mention the wire size will have to be greatly increased and will drive costs way up. Also voltage drops from much higher current will be lost in parallel. AND solar panels have bypass diodes for shading so you can run in series without the failure of a simple DC circuit. I much prefer the benefits of higher voltages, MPPT controllers, and the long runs you can do with that setup.
Thanks Michael, I agree. My recent video I posted shows I bought a Victron 250/100 charge controller. It will allow me to series the PV up to 250 volts!
Nice! I've watched many of your videos now. I like the out of the box thinking and enjoy the videos. Lots of people will learn from your sharing and can avoid some of the pit falls you've discovered as well. Keep up the great work! :-) I'm hoping to retire in a few years and the wife and I will move up to 6000' to cooler weather and will looking into many of the challenges you've tackled.
That's what I wanted to say as well. If a panel is producing less current than others, it's built-in diode will let the current through. I have 1 larger panel in series with smaller ones, and when I measure the load current I can see how it increases when I get to that panel and remains at that higher value even when continuing through smaller or less lit panels (I've got a wire coming from each panel, so that I can select voltages and do some testing; goes as high as over 320 volts.)
Awesome, thanks for the video!
I need to learn more on how to plan parallel and series and using MPPT to optimize per square area. Since I have limited area for my project.
Hey man I live off the grid. And like you I have home aid mounting system. I did somthing similar to keep them from blowing away. And it worked untill it didnt and a wind caught it and threw it the panels landed face down and woulda been fine but those concrete block that your using went through the back of the panels. Fasten those blocks down . Or attach them underneath that bottom board. That's a very expensive mistake . Not as bad as it used to be but still.
Thanks for sharing your experience. I hadn't thought to tie the blocks down, good advice.
I would seriously considering redoing this with buried blocks of poured concrete, or similar. Maybe stakes driven into the ground. Consider a storm, there is a lot of power in the wind.
also have bad wind here one night, panels fine as they mounted with rails and secured to rafters. but still with wind its always on your mind.....
@ and unlike the guy says.. U don't need a windload analysis to know that large relatively light solid rigid panels.. Or even cloth tied... Large area... Hella force. Anyone doubting only needs to attempt to hang on to a large panel of plywood in the bed of their friends pickup.. Try it over your head at 80mph and u won't have the fingers or be around to type a reply 😂I hate it when people over complicate and suggest a delayed and expensive analysis when the answer that is safer takes less time effort and cash..
What about those mobile home securing steel augers that screw into the ground?
You also don't want to place all panels in parallel. When you place panels in series, you increase the voltage. If you place panels in parallel, you increase the amperage. So, if you have 12V 150W panels, you probably get about 8A out of each panel. 12 panels in series gives 144V @ 8A. If you place them all in series you end up with 12V @ 96A. That would mean you need an 100A controller. and heavier cables that can sustain that current. If you create 2 arrays of each 6 panels where the arrays are wired parallel and each panel in the array in series, you'll end up with 24V @ 48A. 3 parallel arrays of each 4 panels in series give 36V @ 32A and 4 arrays of 3 panels give 48V @ 24A. You could of course also instead of using a 50V/24A controller, use 2 24V/24A controllers. That way if you end up having an issue with a controller, you do not loose all power..
If you place them all in *parallel* you end up with 12v @ 96A.
I think you’re wrong.
Parallel adds up current whilst Series adds up voltage.
In your example:
Series: 12 panels = 12V x 12 @8A
Parallel: 12 panels = 12V @ [96A]
Series is far more efficient in terms of energy conversion as voltage is easily adjusted especially by MPPT whilst PWM is deal for smaller setup (12Volts) at around 10-30A (6mm solar wire).
Yup. The amps add up when you parallel. For a string configuration you generally want the highest open-circuit voltage that the string inverter allows. For a modern string inverter such as an SMA inverter, that's usually 600V. Most hybrid or all-in-one inverters have lower voltage limits (though they have slowly been inching up over the last few years). Nearly all inverters have fairly severe current limitations for the solar input.
The best string configuration is maximum voltage tolerated by the string inverter, one series string per MPPT. Avoid paralleling multiple series strings if you can. This will result in the maximum efficiency and shading of a few panels will not reduce system output by too much.
In the old days, two strings were often paralleled into one MPPT and that honestly created most of the shading problems for string inverters. In modern times, dedicated string inverters have multiple MPPTs and you don't parallel. Shade on a panel or two only takes out the panels (their bypass diodes allow the rest of the string to continue operating normally).
Yes series adds volts, while parallel adds amps. If you know there's a part of your panels that'll get shade before the rest, you can always do a series/parallel configuration.
Depending on the charge controller you get, most common ones are 150V max DC, you should limit the panels in series to 3 to keep the voltage under edge conditions to less than 150V.
A lot of the advise you'll get is for panels and systems installed on roofs. Since you are using a ground mount system codes and practical advise can be quite different.
Don't forget that as the outside temperature drops, the output voltage of the PV goes up. People have designed for a certain voltage (placing them in series), only to exceed the 150 volt limit of their charge controller on a cold winter day. Now they are buying a new CC. PV panel manufacturers include the temperature vs voltage output specifications with their panels.
@@Booboobear-eo4es i think they will not exceed 150 even 4 in series so why worry.. i have to play with less than 100v and its much worse
Great! I hope you got it sorted
Although I've just bought a pallet of LG Neon2 320w modules, I've got 8 Evergreen 120 panels that came with a system I bought used. thanks for explaining about the older panels and grounding that array. I wouldn't have known that.
Sounds like you are going to have tons of solar power. Nice.
Are you just grid tied? I'm completely off grid in NZ. 2x 250w panels, 50a mppt charge controller, 2x 190ah telecommunications batteries, 2kva psw inverter, 12v led lighting, Google assistant to turn things on and off, and with my tiny setup, I run all the normal stuff, tv, lappy, lights, fridge, water pump, Xbox, long range WiFi. If I had 12 panels I'd be sharing my power with the neighbours haha. I've started my generator twice in the last year.
Sounds like you keep your loads very low. That's great! Your low energy use is something we can all strive for.
Yes, I'm on grid, although the panels on the front yard are not. I'm working on building my own off-grid system. These panels will tie in to my DIY Powerwall that I'm building now. Here is a video: ruclips.net/video/DsbgNuZtBqY/видео.html
2x250 Watts panels sounds awfully little to run a whole home. Naturally I know you are recharging batteries during daytime, but it still sounds like it can't possibly run a whole home for a full day and night. Not to mention that there's a heap of things to consider that results in loss of production. Angle, weather, time of year.
You might live in a place where this is not really a problem, but for most places this is a huge problem. We'd need about 10 square meter of space to produce 1kW where I live. And that is during peak performance. I measured it to be around 800W/m2, but with panels having about 12% efficiency that leaves much, much less to be produced.
There's a pilot project going on here by the local power production company. To install solar panels over the entire roof of homes that have east-south-west clearing. It is only meant to be a supplement for peak hours and for charging electrical cars. For example a Mitsubishi Outlander has around 10kWh battery and that would take up nearly a full day worth of recharging the house batteries.
Solar panels are not ideal for being "off the grid". They can only help you somewhat, unless you live a minimalistic lifestyle.
That depends on how much power you use per day.
Catonzo You know you can get panels with twice that efficiency as you mention. But still, 500W solar power being enough for the whole year is quite an achievement.
This is almost hard to believe. The TV and the Xbox alone should burn 500W. My Florida home burns 30-70 kWh every single day with 50 kWh being the average. Sure, we have aircon, pool pump, hot water, washer/drier and we do charge our Tesla Model 3. So our 13 kW solar panels installation may not be able to produce all we need. Don't know yet because we only had it turned on in August but, so far, the only surplus months we had were January and February (will be).
I have 2 kilowatts grid fed in the UK. No sun and very cloudy and they are powering a 42 inch tele and laptop, wifi router and 60 watt fridge. oh and the central heating pump (40watts).
Nice.
now just get rid of the tv...that alone will free up a sizable bit of the load. not to mention it will free up alot of your time..and free your mind of the EM drivel. enjoy!
1:00 Interpanel Wiring
1:40 Wire Management
2:36 Grounding
4:36 Grounding Panels to Rails
5:44 Ballast ( Wind loading safety)
6:33 Panel Shading effects
Hi greywolf271, Thanks for making this.
the solar panels all aliminum? surely linking then all with a copper wire would ground them?
Well, I learned a couple of things :) Thanks.
Iron Ridge. I have the same bolts, Certainteed 300W's with Optimizers, Solar Edge 7600 plus LG Chem Resu 9.8 kwh battery. The battery was $5400.00 for the queezy of stomach at spending. But the local utility will refund 85%, if you can convince them of various qualifications. It increases the efficiency of the systems' overall output about 30% to 40%. (you have the get the size just right to maximize efficiency, which depends on "life-style" or how many EVs you drive, etc.)
Both the solar Array and the battery are scalable if more capacity is needed later and the Inverter is oversized, for the same reasons and for safety's sake, when a large battery is involved. If ever there is a large discharge back through the inverter, (from the battery) it can take it. In the existing house, someone could plug in and turn on everything at once, for example, causing the battery to supply that load (instead of the grid) at least for a few minutes, which would be bigger than anything the system is designed to do at once. Having the oversized Inverter, which is actually a Gateway for all electrical distribution from the solar array and battery, allows for short periods of overloading. Of course you simply shouldn't do it, it's not necessary, but those inlaws.....
Refuso Againo
Mean gently "straw" all the charge ?
Damn, I've seen those gentle at work, I'll be curious to see that coconut ...
I should expand a bit on microinverters, optimizers, and string inverters.
Basically if you have no shading issues, a string inverter gives you the best power production.
For a string inverter you always want to use one MPPT per string. You do NOT want to parallel strings if you can help it. If you parallel strings, then shading a panel on one string will cause the MPPT to be non-optimal for both strings and you effectively lose a second panel's worth of production from that.
One or two shaded panels in a large string system will still produce better power than microinverters or optimizers. The reason for this is because wire losses are far lower for a string inverter... its operating somewhere around 400V (if you have enough panels) where as microinverters output 240VAC, so current is almost double with a microinverter and that means wire losses are quadrupled.
Optimizers are a bit of a special case since optimized strings are typically still fed into a string inverter. Generally they have similar results as the microinverters, though, but the electronics are simpler and you can still back-haul high voltage DC.
Microinverters and optimizers do best when the shading is on more than just a few panels or if the shading is diffuse... due to trees and leaves and not due to hard structures. Or if shading is on a lot of panels. Then microinverters and optimizers can be worth it.
Grade A microinverters, optimizers, and string inverters are generally all 97% efficient. The issue comes down to dealing with shading and losses on the wires.
But MOST of the time, the money you would spend on microinverters or optimizers is better spent on buying more panels instead, then using a string inverter. Also, the string inverter is in an easily accessible location whereas the microinverters or optimizers are up on the roof on each panel, which are far harder to deal with when something breaks. Warranty non-withstanding, a solar panel will last 40 years whereas a microinverter or optimizer probably won't.
I was glad he got to shading, as they started the video standing in front of the array. Importantly was protecting wiring and the grounding issue. PVC conduit would be fine, and even wire loom and black tie wraps (the white ones get brittle very quickly when exposed to weather and sun) would protect against abrasion. As for "ballast", the inexpensive pallet setup is fine, but actually anchoring it to the ground using treated 4x4s or sonotubes filled with concrete (at least a couple feet in the ground) would keep it place better than a few hundred more pounds of dead weight. If enough wind gets behind that many panels, it'll be a kite for at least a few feet, destroying the investment. While it would have made for a longer video, more people make mistakes with equipment down the line, like with circuit protection (or lack thereof) and inverter matching household demand. Good start.
Good Suggestion, Thanks.
great videos thanks for all👍
You could turn it into 2 or three arrays, have one set for morning sun and one for evening. or even a mid day as well. This can help to lengthen the amount of time your system is producing power during the day. Possibly giving you a better overall production and charge curve.
lengthOFpole: Very effective way to flatten the production curve, but each array should be connected to its own inverter. Micro-inverters would work well where each panel has its own inverter. If they all connect to a single inverter, then the net production will suffer significantly.
Soren Solveig that should read charge controller, not inverter, the inverter isn't related directly to the panels on most systems. MPPT controllers are cleaver for this purpose. Cheap charge controllers are for weekenders and killed many batteries when used for off grid systems in my experience over 30 years.
you have no idea WTF you're talking about unless you're putting each array on it's own midnite CC and a common battery bank.
One thing Kevin missed was bypass diodes. When a panel in a string is in shade, the bypass diodes keep current going in the string. Sometimes a single panel can still get partial output in partial shade, when that panel has multiple bypass diodes. It is NOT like a resistor! For shading purposes, a long string is actually better (assuming it is within vmax limits of inverter) than multiple strings in parallel if the inverter has one MPPT input. It should also be said that this is a grid tie system.
Micro inverters and optimizers are really over rated. These items add many extra connections (4x the weather exposed plugs) that might fail. Having more electronics in heat and exposure to weather is also a disadvantage .... along with much more difficult roof work/array removal for each failure. Many string inverters have 2-3 isolated MPPTs for making dissimilar string sizes and angles to sun. The one big advantage of Micro inverters and Optimizers would be low dc voltages and "quick shut down" in fires to protect fire fighters. This also make things more safe for DIY or repairs. High voltage DC is just not DIY friendly.
@Koi Solare: I love your point about extra electrical parts and plugs exposed outside. This array is off-grid, I'm sorry we didn't make that clear in the video. Thanks for watching.
I suggest you buy triple junction solar cells in which is now 30%efficiency, individually diy, which costs as little as 8€ for 20pcs and assembled, soldered by yourself, which permits you to repair it yourself and save a great deal of money.. etc.. and other suggestions..
Never grid tied!, be autonomous!
Hi David
I read all comments.
Some mention angle, NEC and etc!!!
Some people living off grid but small systems.
I didn’t check all your videos . So I’m not sure but most people don’t have experience of nature and electric both .
Look like electric or nature .
That still most problems of PV systems.
I think you’re pass the winter Once .
Did you remember after snow day?
How much power generate even cloudy days .
DC power is not good for heat than AC.
That why wire size is thicker
Hot desert like my aria is not good for DC.
Cold winter cloudy with snow is best for PV systems.
In the winter if you see snow clouds you should change panels angle for vertical. This means panel didn’t get snow and snow refraction make more generate power.
Hi, American Dinosaurs Classic automobile restoration. Generation is very good on sunny days, and on partly cloudy days. However, on thick overcast days there is not much production to speak of. It snows a lot in Massachusetts. It usually takes me about 15 minutes to clean them. I run the snow-blower in front of the panels, then use a broom to sweep the snow off the panels. The angle is steep enough that the snow wants to slide off, but can't because the ground is so close.
As a former/retired licensed electrician from Australia it amazes me that the USA allows amateurs to fiddle with these systems at all. Qualified and licensed electricians will USUALLY do a far neater, safer and complying installation.
And BTW guys..... When is the USA going to catch up with the rest of the world and go METRIC? Everyone else measures cable sizes (and everything else) in millimetres. (And yes, that's the proper way to spell millimetres otherwise METRIC would be spelled METERIC).
Anchors for the pallets .. maybe the ones that screw into the ground like they use for dog tie outs?
Your mistakes were minimal :) As Kevin was saying I would personally not wire the panels in series because of shading issues BUT that does give you the highest voltage, and therefore the lowest losses due to wire resistances. If you wired all the panels in parallel then you would minimise shading issues but the voltage would be much lower and the wire resistance losses would be higher so perhaps much thicker gauge wires would be needed. Therefore I would have a compromise and in your case, I would keep each set of 4 panels in series, but then wire the 3 sets in parallel. For me this would put some shade protection in and also keep the voltage up to reduce resistance losses :)
Thank you.
heya that were some good points hope this david comes more times to explaine more points
Really useful video
parallel or serie is defined by convertor input voltages, ex 150/450 volts. Then you have to make groups ( strings) that match these specs.and ballast is around *20 kg per panel
Fantastica instalacion.
Saludos amigo David.
"Bonding" is the term for connecting all metal components to ground... Be sure to bond to ground your EMT too... giving all the metal components the same "electrical potential" in this case, to ground... I would not only bond that ground conductor to your PV disconnect ground lug... I would also drive some ground electrodes at the panels and tie in the other end of the ground conductor from the last bonding point of connection... you could also utilize the rods to help hold down the pallet frame... this may also help with a lighting strike on one of the metal components, the ground rod electrodes being the shortest path to earth ground...
If he has a ground rod already in home then he he would also need to run a ground wire to "bond" all the rods as well.
Series wiring is best. Put a diode across each panel, cathode to plus, to carry the current if the panel is shaded. The converter should compensate for the lost voltage from one or two panels.
whatever this guy's on, i want some. dude's wired for sound!
Love the solar
That was a good video, UM. This is what your looking for, UM. The proper way is, UM.
If you give me close to your exact latitude and your approx longitude I can work out what angle you can move the panels to every month or two to maximise output. Not much but positioning them a couple times a year normally gives an extra 5% or so kWh average each month. I'll throw in a pretty graph for you too :)
For me though I normally group the panels together in 1kW sets then connect each to a grid-tied inverter or battery charge controller. That way shading especially due to clouds doesn't hurt the otherwise series string as much and doesnt cost much more per kW than bigger single inverters/charge controllers. Oh and MPPT is a must always
That's cool that you can get 5% a month, nice. These pallets can't be angled differently easy, but I am working on another project. My next array is going to be made with angle iron, and I hope to make it easy to change the angle so your help would be awesome. I live north of Worcester, MA. Latitude 42.5
Cool, will fire up Matlab when I'm home and will let you know :)
I know I am a bit late to reply, but wanted to offer up a suggestion. One of my thought exercises is based on the idea that solar panels are the most efficient and useful when they are just as good at being something else. That is a bit confusing, but to make it more understandable imagine covering a deck with struts, but using the solar panels as the roofing surface with acrylic panels covering the seams. It would probably be cheaper than a traditional roof. Or imagine an arbor in the yard where the middle arbor roof cuts are recessed slightly to house a solar panel that isn't visible from the front or back.
Anyway, just something I was thinking about. Thanks for the video.
Agentrfr
A quick easy way to adjust panels for the time of the year..
Place a cup. Like a red dixie cup, big side down on a panel..
Adjust to balance or remove the north south shadow..
You can record the angle for next year
Latitude is the biggest factor longitude has minimal affect.
I'm surprised he mentioned that a little bit of shading will shut your entire system down when wiring in series. Not true. He doesn't seem to be aware of bypass diodes which were common even even 5 years ago.
Electrical earth is like a structural foundation; when there is a fault or earth is compromised, the whole system falls down. Lightning or the effects of a 'dry joint' or moisture can damage expensive electronics.
MY RECOMMENDATION
If you can't draw the circuit and check your protections, don't turn it on to commission the connections.
This "expert" a junior tech still wet behind the ears. This is a good temporary setup that needs a bit more ballast for sure. Then he went off about "getting shocked" in a small system like this I ROFL. The real issues would be integrity of connections, cable length/size. Earth the system if you get lightning storms, or bolt the frames together. With high humidity I'd try NOT damage the anodizing to avoid galvanic corrosion. In Africa you tie everything down to prevent theft, clearly not in colder parts of NA ;)
Zip ties are cheap, but be careful of damaging the wires when moving the setup when you cut the ties, (it happens to pros). I hope you didn't pay more than two buds for this opinion :D
Hi Craig, Thanks for sharing your opinion, I noticed a few comments from you, thanks. After Kevin's suggestions I went ahead and grounded the frame and panels, here is a video on it: ruclips.net/video/1ldNGpd7ebY/видео.html
cool, I watched it. Did you notice the corrosion under the old earth clamp? Dissimilar metals, moisture and small electric current will do that. There are anti-corroson compounds available to prevent that, easily available in the 'States. When earthing I only use bear copper in the ground, insulated copper where exposed, same reason, by the way the bare copper a foot down gives better long-term protection than copper coated rods. Tying all metal bits (bonding) that "may" come into contact with lethal voltages or high currents always better for safety and so on. I'm a 30 year veteran missionary and electronic system integrator/installer, a veteran radio tech/ham as well, have thousands of commercial installations and hundreds of home installs under the belt. We learned solar and generators when it was a rarity expats used where there was no grid or the grid was constantly OFF ;) what WORKS (within safety and economics) is more important then blindly "following code".
We about to emigrate from Africa, but I had a bout of the "swine" flu, so I took some time out to research stuff about tiny houses, homesteading and so on and YT decided to recommend one of your vids. I've spotted some before when researching water heating or something else.
Stay safe, stay real ;)
Sounds Good. Thanks for sharing my video.
not so sure about the expert part but hey we all sharing. having those wires secure is always a good idea as you do not want shorts
Craig Symington
Hi Craig and David...
I’m a new subscriber and look forward to seeing more.
I’m an avid Sailor and there’s always issues with dissimilar
metals and especially in salt water.
The trick all of us use is to put Zink fittings and/or washers
in between any dissimilar metals as the Zink will dissolve before
any corrosion takes place.
They usually last for several months, it depends on what they are
being used on,(the stronger the current going through an item the
shorter they last), good to check routinely until you get an idea on
life spans.
I don’t see why this wouldn’t work on shore installations too.
Also, I liked your repurposed old pallets as frame work for your Solar
Array.
I would have to agree with the gentleman checking out your system
that it needs some more ballast, last thing you want is an up-turned
or knocked over Solar Array which could potentially cause damage to
your system...
I was thinking, if your Solar Array is in its permanent location, instead
of attempting to add any more cinder blocks for some extra weight, how
about digging some cement footers and then using the metal hurricane
tie-down straps that are used for securing Mobile Homes...?
They are readily available, the cost isn’t that much,(especially if you have
either a mobile home salvage yard or a Habitat for Humanity store near by),
they are easy to install, and can hold down the World if installed correctly...!
Hope these ideas might be found useful by someone.
Thanks for sharing this information with us.
Have a great day and be blessed.
Nice video
To determine the angle of you panels you go by the latitude and longitude. Always face south and here where I'm at 14 degree in the summer time and 44 degree in the winter. winter the sun is way down south and summer it goes almost over head. I'm in Florida the sun shine state. the sun comes out almost every day even in winter.
In Amarillo we call those panels wings in that configuration
Hi Scott, Is that because they catch the wind?
yes, @@DavidPozEnergy ....anchor your array to the ground to keep it in place.
One issue not covered and as you're close to what looks like a busy road is the theft of your panels. As they are at ground level and you have a mess of a wooden pallet support frame - you need a better more secure frame to protect your solar panels ATB
You are right, Theft is a concern.
theft.....
Nice info
Great video. Your mistakes were small. Mostly preventative measures for wear and tare. Don't trust the wind to be nice forever. One day you will get a big storm and that thing will blow over. Anchors. Just to be safe. Otherwise, good job!
HOWdy D-P,
Thanks
COOP
...
he's wrong about the ground-lug giving grounding faults. these are PV generations points , not part of a MENS system.
The point of ground lugs is primarily legislative compliance.
The bonding panels to each other stops electrolytic activity between panel frame and rails.
Thanks. Good points.
Grounding and bonding can be a very confusing subject. Just connecting a wire to ground wont make it safe. For example if one of your wires came in contact with your metal frame and you had a ground wire connected to a grounding electrode all you would be doing is electrifying the ground. To make it safe you must turn the power off. To do that you must "bond" all metal together. Then those "bonded" components must bring current back to the source of electricity and not the ground. So you would want to bond all panels together then bring those bonded panels back to your combiner box with a ground cable. If there is a fault the current will travel through all the bonded equipment to the combiner and trip your breakers. By bringing current back to the source it will trigger your safety devices gfci breakers fuses etc. Pumping energy in to the ground may not actually provide enough resistance to trip a breaker thereby energizing the ground and creating a serious health and safety risk. And believe it or not the ground can be quite conductive and an electrical current can travel a fair distance from the source. If all your equipment is bonded together and those bonds lead back to the panel in the event of a fault your breaker will trip. I believe grounding electrodes are a means of dissipating lightning. Not protecting from lightning just providing a conduit to ground where lightning wants to go anyway.
Very well said. I'm sorry for any miss-use of the terms grounding vs. bonding. I'm still learning about he topic.
@@DavidPozEnergy I enjoy your videos. As a fellow diy er I had to endure hours of migraine enduing technical babble from people much smarter than I. Maybe I can spare you some of that. My solar setup is very similar to yours. There are circumstances where pounding an electrode in to the ground and connecting your array to it could be a bad thing. If lightning struck near your panels you have created a path of minimal resistance right through your panels through your wiring in to your charge controller, power inverter and any other electrical equipment connected. As well as any metal bonded to that system. The terms grounding and bonding are not interchangeable. Not saying you did that, just getting a grasp on the difference and the importance of each is a must for anyone involved with generating electricity. Keep em coming I have learned my fair share from you.
Old solar guy here, Several things.
YOU have good protection from wind getting behind your free standing array, you will likely be okay. If they were in open air they would have very little chance of surviving. on a job site a smaller array with less angle flipped over in a 25 - 30 mph wind, with 2 - 40 lb bags of top soil on the back support, all the panels survived except the top one. even with the bags of soil landing on them!
For NEC code a ground mount system with accessible wiring DC voltages above 30 volts, the wiring must be protected. Since the wires come out of a back the panel with no way to place directly into conduit, the only way to meet code is to fence around your panels! Lots of inspectors ignore this, but if you get a picky guy...
This link will explain it;
www.ecmweb.com/nec/wiring-methods-pv-systems-and-nec
I saw you bought a cheap inverter in another video, you should get your friend behind the scenes. If he is installing things not to code he could lose his license or certification, assuming he has any. If that inverter has a UL rating it will be UL458 for mobile use. Home use requires UL1741. Your video showing installation not to code means you should probably quit paying your insurance bill as they will gladly use such as an example of poor stewardship.
I do see inspected home systems which don't meet NEC standards, the DC wiring should be encased as well as all the other wiring. Might get a Midnite E-Panel making the wiring and protection/breakeers easier to manage in a code compliant nature.
Hi Whit, Thanks for the great comment and article link. Kevin, in the video, did not install my panels, I did that DIY. The cheap inverter is to get me by until I can save up enough money for a better one, like a Magnum or Schneider.
Whit,
Are you seeing professional installers following NEC and UL standards? You may not want to answer that question :)
Can you share standards on battery and inverters? I like the link but it's only for the panels.
I found a recording of the inspector of Dallas talking about common problems they see at homes and changes to 2014 code. Pretty good & quick review though I wish they'd recorded his slides: ruclips.net/video/6veYXz1QR84/видео.html
yeah those few bricks aint enough
Hi Whit,
Thanks for quoting codes. It could save someone's life. People often struggle to understand electrical safety.
My brother survived kiloVolts from a train yard, but I use kiloVolts to fence livestock. The difference is in the current. Some may have experienced microstimulation from a physiotherapist to relax strained muscles. It's always easy to simplify our understanding and run into a problem later when the circumstances don't match the simplification that we stored away.
Totally awesome video!! Thank you!!
Thanks for the video man!
Great video very informative thanks
Suggestion 1, Get monocrystalline pv cells. That is all.
4-5-19 Sun Power (SPWR) makes an industry leading 400 watt solar panel and their stock is a great buy right now. If you've been thinking about going solar or buying some stock to make some serious money, Sun Power is the company to go with.
How much per panel? LG has a 365 neon R that’s solid too
In the developed world, you don't use metal conduit, ever; not in buildings, not on the roof, not in a car, not on a boat - it hasn't been used in decades. You'd use a flexible expandable plastic conduit which absorbs the expansion-contract. This is international industry standard.
But it melts and deforms in arizona sun
using microinvertors rather than a single invertor stops a single panel stopping system output, it becomes more proportional
Yes, but an inverter on every one of his panels gets expensive real quick.
Sometimes you get what you pay for and the revenue justifies the capital expense.
Maybe have Kevin back to show how to rewire in parallel and what to use.
That's a good idea. Thanks for the suggestion. I'm always looking for more video ideas.
DavidPoz Thank You, some DIY on RUclips, will never admit a mistake. Can you ask Kevin if a house totally run on DC would be more efficient then using AC?
Example, DC powered house;
The electric co service connects to the house's E. panel only the Furance/AC and E. Range run on AC power. The rest of the power supply is converted to low voltage DC. The lights would be DC Leds, the small appliances would DC models along with Electronics. The Solar panels would stay DC and be connected into the house panel. Less voltage and amps usage providing the same lifestyle. Also maybe cheaper to wire, lower chance of fire and electrocution. Maybe lowering the need for new Power plants. It's just a Theory from watching people with solar powered RVs.
That is what I have found when looking into it as well. Assuming you buy a DC fridge, they come in 12/24V, there are only a handful to choose from on the market, and they cost $2k. Just one example.
and also what happens if you mix panels
Good work🇮🇳 मेने आपने घर सेम लगाया है solar Panel जेलें आपने लगाया है
Your system doesn't look like it gets any shade so I think you chose the right layout.
What is the advantage of Series over parallel, and why not layout all in parallel, when potential advantage is so great. Also I don't think its only shade of a structure that is obstacle here. You can have leaf collection on one panel, snow collection, dust or likewise that causes a single panel turn into a failing resistor for the entire system... So please let me know what and if, I'm missing something here.
@@samsen201 It has to do with shading. In series if one of the panels is shaded, the others in series with it suffer. They are all drawn down to that level. The best solution for having solar where you know you will have shading is micro inverters. If shading isn't a problem, then series increases the voltage which decrease the current flow. The higher the current flow, the thicker the wires must be and the more expensive they become. The disadvantage of series is you are adding the voltages of your panels. Most charge controllers have a max (like 150v) therefore you can only put so many in series. In a system of any size you are going to do both series and parallel.
@Core 1783 incorrect. Panels have bypass diodes now so the other non shaded Panels, in series, still provide power. @davidpoz, should remove the shading segment from this video.
I'm very new to solar. Good video. I'm having trouble figuring out the best configuration for my panels. I'm using a 3000 w growatt 48 volt sys. I can max out at 4500 w and 250 volts. I have 24 panels to use they are 240 w panels. Voltage for each panel is 29.6 and 8.12 amps can someone please help me to understand a good configuration for my system. Thank you. Frank R
Why not mount the solar panels on a better stand about 1m off the ground in an almost horizontal alignment to the ground. In that way you can get maximum solar array for most of the day.
HI Ogo Mbachu, Right behind the ground mount is my house with flat-plate collectors on the house. If I mounted the panels any higher I would end up shading the house. Thanks for commenting.
The best angle depends on your location specifically, it is not one number fits all.
You have a lot of $ investment in the solar panels. It is better to ankle the racks to the floor instead just ballasts. For grounding, connect the ground wire to a metal water pipe nearest to it.
lets see the LF pure sine wave inferter should way atleast 100lb 150lb for real inverter to handle well pumps ,ac , and antminers that use a lot of power
7:00 I don't think that has been an issues for some time now, like at least 8 years. Have you ever tested that theory? I have, more than a few times. Shade one module and only lose wattage of that module. How?, bypass diodes.
Yes, I have tested this on my setup and Kevin is correct. I have since re-wired to two parallel strings to harvest more.
Your system has bypass diodes and what?
The drop in power output is basic electric circuits, which is all an array of solar cells is when wired up. It's going to be wired in 1) series, 2) parallel, or 3) combination of (1) and (2). Resistance in series will always affect the whole circuit. Only parallel gets arounds that. So more "modern" panel installs do a combo. Diode? Diodes just control circuit flow. Your bypass diode is merely the common way to implement solar panels IN PARALLEL.
those pallets wouldn't last a year in florida
they may seem like sturdy oak but will rot in no time
thats a pure hack there
Nice!
Metal outside, plastic inside (or underground) because the ultraviolet rays of the sun will destroy the plastic.
The plastic is uPVC
Great idea to trouble shoot your own system...Thx
Thanks
Do these solar panels have bypass diodes?
First. 3 Years? :) Thats barely even a pair of shoes!
the solar panels have diodes inside.shading one doesn.t shut down the system
I would love to see the real life example of the plastic insulation rubbed away on the wire. I think it is a total BS but I would love to get correted if I am wrong
How many watts does that thing kick out with 12 panels? And how many batteries do you charge with the solar? Thanks!
Each of those old panels in the front are 158 watts. I have a more recent video showing my batteries from a Chevy Volt car, 18kwh. Although, I don't have the system finished so one is not yet charging the other. Thanks for watching.
DavidPoz
Hi David...
I’m new to your channel and was wondering if you’ve
finished your system yet and have videos posted?
Would you mind sharing how you went about finding
and acquiring the batteries from the Chevy Volt?
How much did they cost?
What made you think of using these instead of a more
conventional battery system?
Thanks for any help that you can provide...!
The same goes to any subscribers who might want to share
what types of battery systems they used, the cost, and why
that type of system...!
Have a great day and be blessed.
Hi Troy, The Chevy Volt battery was $2k. I have a video of getting the battery and starting the battery series: ruclips.net/video/V1t1SoEhVNQ/видео.html I wanted to use them because they are cheaper than new "solar" batteries. Here is a video where I give a quick overview of the whole system. ruclips.net/video/722GNWlEN1g/видео.html Thanks for watching.
Was this all a spoof? I'm no expert, and I don't have a YT channel covering this stuff, but even I knew all the things Kevin pointed out. If David didn't, it certainly makes me question any info he gives!
8:45...All metal components BONDED to each other....
My solar big mistake.... I baught 6 x 335w panels. I should have been buy 14 x 150 panels.
How would that improve your system?
If you put Solar up make it look nice not a eyesore. They will start making it harder for people to put Solar up when it looks like shit in the neighborhood.
All great comments except he is incorrect when it comes to shading series panels. All modern panels (including probably these old ones) have bypass diodes, so shading a single panel does not take out the whole array. It basically just takes out that one panel plus 0.3V of drop (out of 200V-500V), so it will only slightly disrupt the other panels.
Very very old panels... grade B or C panels 20 years ago (grade A panels would have had bypass diodes) ... very old panels did not have bypass diodes and shading one would take out the entire string.
The issue with string efficiency also relates to whether each string has its own MPPT or whether several strings are parallel'd together before going into a single MPPT. When each string has its own MPPT, shading is minimal hazard. However, if the two strings are paralleled, shading one panel on one string will cause the MPPT point for the paralledl strings to not be at the optimal point for either string, causing roughly the same loss across both strings as the loss from the shaded panel. So multiply the shading loss by 2 in that situation and you get a rough estimate.
(Says me who has a two-string HV array and has done numerous shading tests over the years).
Please edit out all his uh-s and uhms! This video could be much shorter! Good point on the micro-inverters and advantage of a parallel configuration.
Almost shut it off at 2 minutes, but struggled through! Ok, couldn’t make it past 7:30
EMT is not generally exterior rated. PVC is the standard or liquidtite.
It's fine with rain tight connections