Ahsoka is 4 years older than Rex. At Order 66 he was 13 and she was 17, it's a weird dynamic. Jedi Teenagers leading Pre-Teen Clone Solders to their deaths.
These brave men are more humans than most of the other MC who are human on the show. They experience regret, betrayal, joy, etc on each of their missions.
i have question. how Kaminoens were payed for their work ? Does Palpatine payed us quietly for 10 years with the help of Dooku ? Or Palpatine payed them in the Attack of the Clones when the clone army was revealed to the galaxy ?
1:45 those groups exist Allan and my personal experience was the United States Marine Corps. Marines despite the stereotypes are generally fairly intelligent people and highly trained in their trade and craft no matter what their role may be. Marines in groups on the other hand can get very stupid especially when in groups especially when there’s boredom present. We’re just smart enough to come up with insane plans and just dumb enough to actually try them.
Yeah, I can attest to the idea that a bored, infantry platoon can be the source of many a stupid stunt. Plus, young men who are feeling bulletproof and who are loaded up with propaganda and partial truths can be motivated to follow some extremely dangerous, stupid, and wrong orders.
I did a combat tour with a Cavalry platoon during the "surge" in Iraq. The most violent year of the war. We got extended to a year and a half in the combat zone. The longest U.S. combat deployment in modern warfare. Most of the soldiers in my platoon were 18-19 so a lot of them weren't even old enough to buy a beer when we got back.
This is also why Sheev did away with the clones. If they became teenagers.... Well, those who did defect at the end of the republic, start of the empire.... They were some of the most important and effective rebels. Imagine if the entire GAR defected? Palpy would be powerless.
You are probably right. Rex was 13 during Order 66 as a Gen 1 Clone. During Bad Batch we see the 15 year old Clones constantly defecting and disobeying Imperial commands.
I think one of the reasons that clones are so respectful to people is that they understand that they might be perfect soldiers but they were mentally children compared to pretty much everyone they met
@@BeanCasserole-wg7wu they were taught to respect authority, but I think their self awareness of their lack of life experience increases it. rex for example is one of the most experienced clones of the war and look at the respect he has for others. not for his indoctrination, which he sheds, but for his self awareness and acknowledgement of who others are.
For me this has always been the pinnacle of fiction. Taking real world problems, diverging them from preconceptions, and letting us analyse them devoid of the prejudices they may bring.
Imagine all the things you could've done with the Clones after the war: An actual military force for the Republic, a security force for the outer rim, training new generations of soldiers (Clones or recruits), manning outposts in the unknown regions or even beyond the galaxy. Imagine all of the pragmatic and practical things you could've done with them
Wow… really peeling back more layers I didn’t think about. The entire clone army was a child soldier army fighting a war with no meaning against waves of unending droids
My mind is blown on how advanced their cloning research and technology was! Those clones endured a lot physically. Lightspeed jumps, environments, temperatures, atmospheres, altitudes, and everything else!? Amazing. This is the way.
Those 9 year old clones were still physically and mentally 18 year olds. Its just that their worldview was stifled and they just didn't have a broad life experience, getting through emotional ups and downs, and all the wisdom gained by experiencing such a nuanced life.
Another absolutely fantastic, deep and thoughtful video. Thank you so much for these, Alan. Rebelling teenagers - yes, that is difficult. I can confirm that. As my daughter grew up and became older, I was always well aware of the fact that I could not protect her very much. All I could do was to give her advice and guidance so that she could gather the tools to become a strong, well-informed human who can think and act for herself. I was also very careful to get her to understand that I would not be there forever and that her actions had consequences (my mother told me something different and I am still struggling with this to this very day at almost 50 years old. She already passed away, so yeah. Maybe I should talk to a professional about this). The Clones really drew the short straw in every aspect. So to speak, the Kaminoans created the perfect soldier - fully grown body at peak strength, but still with the mind of easily impressible children. Which is very messed up IMO. Thanks for pointing out this horrible aspect, Alan.
If I remember correctly, the 3D Clone Wars show only had about 4 episodes dedicated to exploring the clones and how they got along in greater society. 1 episode with a defector, 1 with a group of clones on leave and I think that episode gave a brief explanation of their rights and how they're treated by society as a whole, and 2 episodes about the brain chips. I think for a young teen show they did a pretty good job of explaining how the clones were basically treated as property and ostracized by the greater Republic, but I think it's pretty true that Disney, and pre-Disney Star Wars don't really seem to want to get as lost in the grey moral area of society because it kind of gets rid of the sales model of hero driven stories (even if some are not fully heroes they still are painted in the good guy light)
"A lot of these clones were probably looking at their units and they realize just how decimated they were and all the *new* *faces* ..." "New faces?" 🤨🤔😉😆
One of the most brilliant things George Lucas and Dave Filoni did for the Star Wars lore is personalize the Clones in the Clone Wars animated series. Followed up by the Bad Batch, the Clones have become some of the favorite characters for dedicated Star Wars fans. Thanks Allan.
This is why I feel inhibitor chips remove additional tension within Order 66. Clones are traumatized teenagers by the time 19BBY comes around, and they’ve been taught endlessly on their 150 directives. If they’re told that their commanders that they served and died for had turned on them for power, no doubt most clones will feel betrayed enough to execute it. More so, the Clone Commandos (and early 100 ARCs) are independent enough to realize there is a genuine choice that they can make. There are genuine moral stakes on whether they execute it or not. The inhibitor chips strips this dilemma away
This kinda explains what I’ve been thinking about when I had a bit of a rude awakening during the pandemic. The implications just kept stacking up the more I asked myself, leading to questions that had to be answered with increasingly bigger questions about current/future events. I don’t blame those who’ve considered an “early leave” or quit Christianity or something else, but the Clones would have had to remember what kept them alive to that point. Keep it up.
Interesting you note that the arc troopers and commandos were more independent, maybe that’s why the kaminoans chose them to train the others? Also, Band of brothers is amazing
14:38 What happens? The Caminoans had intended on early termination of batches due to "age degradation". I believe AD to be code for just getting rid of a future problem as they knew this would be an issue assuming the clone lived long enough. It was deemed necessary to prevent this with what i believe to be the AD excuse.
It wasn’t that early though if I’m correct I heard they live 35-50 years there would most likely be a period where they had time to think freely and it’s interesting what conclusions they’d come up with
Ashoka’s life throughout the clone wars is a good caparison to make with this! She came into the war fairly young and by her late teens she finally saw that the Clone Wars had not been so cut and dry as she once thought. The devils of the war were on both sides and not everything was as it seemed as she discovered through her relationship with Lux Bontari!
Now I know most people think that the acceleration of ageing for clones kept going but if it was done the way I think then the clones should have a certain point where they slow down in ageing and Start going at a normal human pace because if it's what I think then it's just a extreme boost in certain cells and hormones that causes the ageing acceleration of clones but this would be also a limited supply of age speed increase
As someone who essentially grew up in a cult, I deeply empathize with the clones. My world changed so much when I got older and learned more about the world outside my indoctrination.
Idk about kids having more energy, maybe in the short term but every time I've been hiking and there were kids around (like one of my friend's bringing his sibling), the kid always ends up getting tired early and slowing us down.
Wow! I never thought about it like that. I always assumed that they were maturing at twice the rate as well. Man, star wars is really dark when you think about it!
I do love the undertones of this episode. Parents need to be more selective of what they expose their kids to, films and TV shows teaching values, ideals and behaviors that may ultimately serve some corporate agenda.
8:20 He is not wrong. He missed that children also lack empathy, its why so many of us were so mean and cruel to other ppl animals and things when we were younger. Empathy is developed in late teens. But yea if i were a dictator hell bent on building a force. Id absolutely use children. Id never adhear to any "rules" of war either. War is war and i feel "rules of war" is simply you trying to tie my hands to make the act of war more tolerable when its not. Its the idea of a "fair fight" Ill do what i have to to win. So yea kids are ON the menu!
If you want a good example of what happens to clone soldiers after enough time I'd recommend watching Star Trek DS9. The Jem'Hadar have a lot of similarities to the Fett clones.
Disney does not want you to know because they don't either, it would mean understanding the lore as Lucas wrote it. Darth Kennedy would be crushed literally if she ever truly grasped the weight of her incompetence.
@@FloofMother It is the sign of being a grown adult to be able to take in data through observation and form an opinion based upon it. I could sit slack jawed in front of a television, slowly drooling while staring at the pretty lights. The problem is I would have to suspend disbelief to the point of losing any touch with logic or reason. Kennedy is a "producer" until relatively recently this was a quietly if barely acknowledged part of making entertainment. All a producer really does is write checks. Occasionally a writer or actor might be a producer as well. When a producer deludes themselves into believing they are the real creative artist behind Lucas and Spielberg, and has an absolute hatred for everything she will never be, you get Darth Kennedy.
@@mikewaterfield3599 awesome it’s also the sign of a grown adult to be able to not vilify people you’ve never met in fucking Star Wars terms and blame them for a complex set of corporate decisions.
@@mikewaterfield3599 “has an absolute hatred for everything she will never be” dude, you’re narrativizing a mundane set of events: an executive makes decisions they believe will maximize profit. That’s it. There’s no psychology or emotion to it, she’s just doing what her job is, for better or worse. I don’t exactly like her or really any executive for that matter, but I recognize why these decisions are being made, because you have to actually understand that to be able to criticize it correctly. Making it a black and white heroes and villains story makes your analysis bad and also makes you look like a cringelord
@@FloofMother Fair, I have never met the woman, but here’s something anyone with a rudimentary education in economics can understand. An IP that sold between 1977 and the day Lucas sold it that made 33 billion in merchandising alone (adjusted for inflation) that was considered worth another 4.1 billion for the rights to, has yet to break even since Disney bought it. See an IP’s value is based entirely on the fan base. This is doubly true in entertainment which by it’s nature is an entirely optional expense in peoples lives. Deliberately antagonizing a built in audience is the sort of crap that usually gets people fired. Whatever twitter clout Disney earned with arm chair activists and key board warriors is worth nothing on the NY stock exchange and it sure as hell does not equate to ticket sales. Ep 7 was bound to have a nearly rabid audience fir sheer hype alone. Not having seen what Disney has done with it….. well it’s crap. The original films were far from perfect but they stuck to tried and true writing methods and character arcs. Deny it all you want, personally I am convinced Kennedy has black mail files. Had she been a man she would have been fired as unceremoniously as Chapek was. Generally speaking in any business pissing in your customer’s cheeri O’s is a sure fire way to earn a pink slip. Disney is desperate to turn Star Wars into a chick IP when simple reality is sci fi has always been more popular with men regardless of the protagonist. We the audience owe Disney nothing. Somehow they have forgotten that. They own the IP an unfortunately can do with it what they like, just don’t blame us if we are unwilling to reward you for it. Yes, I genuinely believe Darth Kennedy is a mean spirited, spiteful, petty, vindictive woman who at her core is exceedingly jealous that she was always in the room with two men who drunk and recovering from a brain injury have more creativity that she would have on her best day with all nine muses waiting on her.
I will tell you a secret REALLY does not want you to know: The imperial and ESPECIALLY First Order emblems are BLACK SUNS which while not created by the Nazi's were heavily usurped by them much like how they usurped the Manji. Its actually quite good thematics from a story telling perspective given the fact that the imperials are essentially space nazi's but its still really akward and even kind of funny watching Disney sell first order hats.
The fact the Clones were actually child soldiers is missed by most. But I think Lucas purposesly did it to reflect the real world of young men conscripted for the war. Historically young men are the cannon fodder for the war effort.
Hey @generationtech Unrelated question... How can Sidious and Dooku look so good ? Sidious has one big fight and he goes all raisin. How can a Sith exist in the Sith world for decades gaining experience and skill - without looking like a raisin like the emperor became? Sith aren't pampered. Masters use pain to teach their apprentices. And here are two Sith lords who look like they haven't worked a day in their life.
I’m not sure if I completely agree. For one, I think clones were trained for ten years before being deployed, not nine. Rex and Cody are both stated to have been made in 32 BBY, the same year Count Dooku chose Jango Fett to become the template for the Clone Army. Honestly I don’t even get where the nine years idea came from. Second, if the Republic didn’t fall that would mean the Jedi stopped Palpatine and exposed his plan. I honestly think the entire Republic would turn on the clones. Mostly it would be due to fear of them still betraying the government for Palpatine even if the chips are removed. Though some would also see this as the opportunity to finally get rid of the clones and make a military made up of Republic citizens. You know who is in the latter group. I would bet the clones would be banished to Kamino, which would be kicked out of the Republic even if the Kaminoans never knew the truth themselves. The Jedi Order would unfortunately be too busy handling their own affairs and making sure Palpatine’s supporters don’t continue his plans. Maybe they would have a few Jedi keep an eye out on Kamino, but things will be hectic in those first few years. I think most clones would go along with this both due to their loyalty to both the Jedi and the Republic, but also the horror of their true purpose and possibly fear that they may still be a threat to others. Now, assuming this scenario in my head didn’t happen and Clones were still kept on by the Republic, I still doubt we would reach the point of open rebellion. I mean, wouldn’t the Jedi Order do what it can to help the clones? What about senators that would want to reward the clones after their years of service? Not to mention all the people who would have viewed the GAR as a temporary measure and want to return back to pre-Clone Wars days? Don’t forget about how expensive the clones are and the fact the last samples of Jango Fett’s DNA were fading out. As corrupt as the Republic could be, I honestly think that if they didn’t let fear rule them, they would actually award the clones or at least ensure their decommissioning wasn’t like what the Empire did. Yeah, the Prequels are morally grey, but the Jedi are still Jedi and in this scenario, the Republic is still the Republic. The clones would get off pretty well. Now, I still totally get how horrid the lives of the clones are. The Kaminoans were cold-hearted, Jango Fett didn’t care, and the Empire screwed the clones over. They’re best time alive was in the Clone Wars, fighting against hordes of battle droids while most of the people they fought for didn’t truly respect them. They most likely didn’t get any pay during the war and given what we saw in the Bad Batch, nobody really thought about what would happen to the clones after the war. What I find to be unfair with this video is that it basically excludes the Jedi. The only mention of them is how unpopular they would be to the clones after Geonosis, but even if this was true in Canon as it is in Legends, I would think the Jedi would become popular to the clones again. It is after all the Jedi who encourage the clones to get names and act more independent. If anything a lot of the negative things that would normally happen to the clones likely were averted under the command of the Jedi. They usually try to minimize casualties after all. Now if the clones were assigned to Republic officers like Tarkin, I absolutely think clones like Rex would never become the men they became. The clones got lucky with the Jedi. I get that this is an essential part of the story of the clones, but with the final season of the Bad Batch coming out next year, I feel like we’re in for a flood of clone tragedy. Honestly I want to talk about the more positive things about the clones before that season comes out. Their relationship with the Jedi, their brotherhood with each other, clone culture that developed during the war, and their heroics. One last hurrah before we see the Empire crush the clones for good.
A lot issues teenagers face they already went through as little kids preschoolers s in fact. Problem is we forget abd think movies like inside out Tell us loosing life experience makes us mature . . Plus many concepts are actually easy to grasp adults just complicate . Make leaps definitions . Rules of thinking just because. Not no thinking why. We to empathis on who but on how . Death is a simple concept to grasp why death is permanent is more of a scientific question
You say children grow to critical thinking...but then again think how many people don't grow up and question anything. You create a large enough society to believe something and they'll destroy themselves before changing.
It's sad that they was all nine years old on geonosis when I told my fiance that when we watched attack of the clones she got well sad and asked if it was true I told her yh they got advanced ageing put into there genes
the "rumoured" clone madness was caused by ,an ever impatient Sidious, who made the kaminoans, speed up there incubation times... the worst batches were incubated in less than a year i'm wondering when / if they'll ever utilized this legends piece of lore ,into canon ...
15:58 Sounds familiar. LIke what schools are doing to our kids now. Im gay but i don't need or want that at school. These kids are being force fed bull sht.
Kids are being told at school: "hey gay people exist and that's okay" You: "INDOCTRINATION!!!!!!!!" I love how people insist that all the lgbt stuff is the highest form of indoctrination but of course religious schools and all the religious references in schools are all perfectly okay.
Thanks, I liked your analysis comparing Clone troopers to child soldiers. I think Star Wars does have a strong message against indoctrination and authoritarianism.
i have question. how Kaminoens were payed for their work ? Does Palpatine payed us quietly for 10 years with the help of Dooku ? Or Palpatine payed them in the Attack of the Clones when the clone army was revealed to the galaxy ?
It's Hard to Except Anyone Could Take That Violent Nonsense Seriously, But, Ya Know! We Live on Earth Where Complete and Absolute Stupidity Flows Like Wildfire!
There is absolutely nothing to suggest the clones have the mental maturity of children. The brain of a clone is not somehow left behind while the rest of the body matures. The ENTIRE process is compressed. They would be naïve due to social isolation on Kamino but that's social, not biological, and a product of isolation, not age. By the start of the war the clones had YEARS of education and military training- these were NOT a bunch of kids straight out of boot camp with no real skills to speak of, these were professionals. The US military takes teens who are completely clueless, often sheltered, and definitely not in possession of anything resembling expertise, and in less than a year - less than half a year if need be - can toss them in the middle of a war. I guarantee they are less mentally prepared than the clones. You don't need to make up an imaginary condition where somehow the aging process skipped their brains for the clones to be tragic. They're tragic because all choice was stripped from them at every turn. Because they were made to fight a senseless war they had no stake in. Because it doesn't matter whether they would have or would not have followed order 66 without the chip, either way, all they were to the sith were meat puppets, to be used, discarded, and forgotten.
See this why I was REALLY hoping they'd do some serious story telling with Fin's story as a child soldier. but nope, got a shitty side character with no depth or conflict, blah.
Eh, I don't agree with this assertion that the clones were all mentally 9 y/o when they were ready for service. The argument works on paper, but in reality all of the clone troopers we've seen have exhibited mental faculties appropriate to their 18+ y/o presentation.
For a guy who always say that his allegiance is to the republic, to democracy, you sure keep pointing out there flaws and demorocy is simply a tool to keep you in line
Allegiance to something means it's your duty to point out it's flaws and wrongdoings. Anyone who is loyal to a nation or ideology and then blindly accepts anything it's leaders say without criticism is a failure to his nation even if he pretends to be all patriotic by waving some flags around.
I have a version of me and I’m not even a guy technically Innoway I’m not female either. Yeah yeah but ex and Y chromosome that I was assigned female at birth. It had the female reproductive organs and all that stuff I went through female puberty, but I need a male or female, and I still have that part in my history in my past
If they wanted a bunch of overgrown child soldiers to be zealot killers an not care about getting killed or maimed at same time. They shoulda been raised an trained like some real world cultures in antiquity did. Like the Samurai an Spartans an some Barbarian tribes did. An Even all these was more specific factions of a culture or 2 then a specific culture in its entirety. It's not always a great thing. Fortune favors the bold though an stories an tactics like using a tree to shoot from a supported an elevated position MIGHTVE been all the difference as assaulting frontally entrenched positions IS often suicide too on a battlefield an we're taught in the Service that's to be avoided UNLESS your desperate and outta any other options. But no guts no glory too. So.. USA I guess...
Ahsoka is 4 years older than Rex. At Order 66 he was 13 and she was 17, it's a weird dynamic.
Jedi Teenagers leading Pre-Teen Clone Solders to their deaths.
Pretty fucjin sad😂
fr so goofy
These brave men are more humans than most of the other MC who are human on the show. They experience regret, betrayal, joy, etc on each of their missions.
Wait, other MC? 😳
@@MCsCreations main cast (MC).
you mean brave children?
@@congnghequansuvn474 correct, the brave child soldiers.
i have question. how Kaminoens were payed for their work ? Does Palpatine payed us quietly for 10 years with the help of Dooku ? Or Palpatine payed them in the Attack of the Clones when the clone army was revealed to the galaxy ?
1:45 those groups exist Allan and my personal experience was the United States Marine Corps. Marines despite the stereotypes are generally fairly intelligent people and highly trained in their trade and craft no matter what their role may be. Marines in groups on the other hand can get very stupid especially when in groups especially when there’s boredom present. We’re just smart enough to come up with insane plans and just dumb enough to actually try them.
Yeah, I can attest to the idea that a bored, infantry platoon can be the source of many a stupid stunt. Plus, young men who are feeling bulletproof and who are loaded up with propaganda and partial truths can be motivated to follow some extremely dangerous, stupid, and wrong orders.
@carsoncasmirri3874 Yeah, “stupid wins” is not as appreciated as I would want it to be
I did a combat tour with a Cavalry platoon during the "surge" in Iraq. The most violent year of the war. We got extended to a year and a half in the combat zone. The longest U.S. combat deployment in modern warfare. Most of the soldiers in my platoon were 18-19 so a lot of them weren't even old enough to buy a beer when we got back.
the fact i was able to join at 17 years old is insane
looking back now in my 30s i cant believe i did that
This is also why Sheev did away with the clones. If they became teenagers.... Well, those who did defect at the end of the republic, start of the empire.... They were some of the most important and effective rebels. Imagine if the entire GAR defected? Palpy would be powerless.
Not powerless, but they if they just focused on corescant he'd probably be burnt
You are probably right. Rex was 13 during Order 66 as a Gen 1 Clone. During Bad Batch we see the 15 year old Clones constantly defecting and disobeying Imperial commands.
@@jiffypoo5029 And Omega was OLDER than CF99! She just had NORMAL childhood span, where her younger brothers were accelerated!
I think one of the reasons that clones are so respectful to people is that they understand that they might be perfect soldiers but they were mentally children compared to pretty much everyone they met
Since when have children been respectful? I believe the respect was ingrained in them as part of their training to become soldiers.
@@BeanCasserole-wg7wu they were taught to respect authority, but I think their self awareness of their lack of life experience increases it. rex for example is one of the most experienced clones of the war and look at the respect he has for others. not for his indoctrination, which he sheds, but for his self awareness and acknowledgement of who others are.
You are the best Star Wars RUclipsr, because of how well you compare the themes and stories to real life
For me this has always been the pinnacle of fiction. Taking real world problems, diverging them from preconceptions, and letting us analyse them devoid of the prejudices they may bring.
Imagine all the things you could've done with the Clones after the war: An actual military force for the Republic, a security force for the outer rim, training new generations of soldiers (Clones or recruits), manning outposts in the unknown regions or even beyond the galaxy. Imagine all of the pragmatic and practical things you could've done with them
Instead, Palpatine decided to just kick the clones to the curb as if they were garbage, and those who resisted were violently silenced.
Wow… really peeling back more layers I didn’t think about. The entire clone army was a child soldier army fighting a war with no meaning against waves of unending droids
My mind is blown on how advanced their cloning research and technology was! Those clones endured a lot physically. Lightspeed jumps, environments, temperatures, atmospheres, altitudes, and everything else!? Amazing. This is the way.
It’s simple Allen, the children yearn for the mine fields
Missed opportunity to add in the Jem'Hadar from Star Trek.
This was so sad 😞 thanks Allen. You are a revealer.
You are by far the best sci fi critiquing/analyzing RUclipsr out there. I love your show.
This is by far my most favorite episode of your thoughts on Star Wars! Excellent work, sir!
Those 9 year old clones were still physically and mentally 18 year olds. Its just that their worldview was stifled and they just didn't have a broad life experience, getting through emotional ups and downs, and all the wisdom gained by experiencing such a nuanced life.
Amazing how much you're saying here also applies to Battle School from Ender's Game.
Another absolutely fantastic, deep and thoughtful video. Thank you so much for these, Alan. Rebelling teenagers - yes, that is difficult. I can confirm that. As my daughter grew up and became older, I was always well aware of the fact that I could not protect her very much. All I could do was to give her advice and guidance so that she could gather the tools to become a strong, well-informed human who can think and act for herself. I was also very careful to get her to understand that I would not be there forever and that her actions had consequences (my mother told me something different and I am still struggling with this to this very day at almost 50 years old. She already passed away, so yeah. Maybe I should talk to a professional about this).
The Clones really drew the short straw in every aspect. So to speak, the Kaminoans created the perfect soldier - fully grown body at peak strength, but still with the mind of easily impressible children. Which is very messed up IMO. Thanks for pointing out this horrible aspect, Alan.
I love your thoughts and analysis of SW. helps keep me big brain. Keep it coming!
You gotta feel bad for those brave Troopees. They fought for a system only to replace and betray them
If I remember correctly, the 3D Clone Wars show only had about 4 episodes dedicated to exploring the clones and how they got along in greater society. 1 episode with a defector, 1 with a group of clones on leave and I think that episode gave a brief explanation of their rights and how they're treated by society as a whole, and 2 episodes about the brain chips. I think for a young teen show they did a pretty good job of explaining how the clones were basically treated as property and ostracized by the greater Republic, but I think it's pretty true that Disney, and pre-Disney Star Wars don't really seem to want to get as lost in the grey moral area of society because it kind of gets rid of the sales model of hero driven stories (even if some are not fully heroes they still are painted in the good guy light)
"A lot of these clones were probably looking at their units and they realize just how decimated they were and all the *new* *faces* ..."
"New faces?" 🤨🤔😉😆
but is physiological maturity that makes children easier to obsorb information or neurological
One of the most brilliant things George Lucas and Dave Filoni did for the Star Wars lore is personalize the Clones in the Clone Wars animated series. Followed up by the Bad Batch, the Clones have become some of the favorite characters for dedicated Star Wars fans. Thanks Allan.
Neurological maturity vs physiological maturity. Gogert mentally a baby at 50
This was one of the more thought through segments. Good job.
This is why I feel inhibitor chips remove additional tension within Order 66. Clones are traumatized teenagers by the time 19BBY comes around, and they’ve been taught endlessly on their 150 directives. If they’re told that their commanders that they served and died for had turned on them for power, no doubt most clones will feel betrayed enough to execute it. More so, the Clone Commandos (and early 100 ARCs) are independent enough to realize there is a genuine choice that they can make. There are genuine moral stakes on whether they execute it or not. The inhibitor chips strips this dilemma away
This may be my favorite episode yet. Really good stuff
This kinda explains what I’ve been thinking about when I had a bit of a rude awakening during the pandemic. The implications just kept stacking up the more I asked myself, leading to questions that had to be answered with increasingly bigger questions about current/future events.
I don’t blame those who’ve considered an “early leave” or quit Christianity or something else, but the Clones would have had to remember what kept them alive to that point.
Keep it up.
Thanks for the insight and information you are without a doubt the best on youtube thank you Alan
Interesting you note that the arc troopers and commandos were more independent, maybe that’s why the kaminoans chose them to train the others?
Also, Band of brothers is amazing
14:38 What happens? The Caminoans had intended on early termination of batches due to "age degradation". I believe AD to be code for just getting rid of a future problem as they knew this would be an issue assuming the clone lived long enough. It was deemed necessary to prevent this with what i believe to be the AD excuse.
It wasn’t that early though if I’m correct I heard they live 35-50 years there would most likely be a period where they had time to think freely and it’s interesting what conclusions they’d come up with
This may be the deepest episode of Generation Tech yet.
Ashoka’s life throughout the clone wars is a good caparison to make with this! She came into the war fairly young and by her late teens she finally saw that the Clone Wars had not been so cut and dry as she once thought. The devils of the war were on both sides and not everything was as it seemed as she discovered through her relationship with Lux Bontari!
Now I know most people think that the acceleration of ageing for clones kept going but if it was done the way I think then the clones should have a certain point where they slow down in ageing and Start going at a normal human pace because if it's what I think then it's just a extreme boost in certain cells and hormones that causes the ageing acceleration of clones but this would be also a limited supply of age speed increase
Yeah probably did for some like kix
For the past few years now I've been referring to the clone army as the grand slave army of the Republic
Allen ,you are Took Deep my man ,Love the content Sir...🤗🤗🤗
I feel like their mental development would be sped up as well, but they do only have 9 years of experiances
As someone who essentially grew up in a cult, I deeply empathize with the clones. My world changed so much when I got older and learned more about the world outside my indoctrination.
Good Soliders, Follow Orders.
Edit: After watching this video, rewatch/ relisten the Clone Trooper Logs from the OG Battlefront too.
Love your content buddy, keep it up!
ALAN MATE YES! Love you big time! What's something you wish more people knew about Star Wars?
Has me thinking Star Lord of the Flies!
“All the new faces” lol
Idk about kids having more energy, maybe in the short term but every time I've been hiking and there were kids around (like one of my friend's bringing his sibling), the kid always ends up getting tired early and slowing us down.
A mature body doesn't come with a mature mind.
Integrity is short in supply, and even shorter in demand.
Wow! I never thought about it like that. I always assumed that they were maturing at twice the rate as well. Man, star wars is really dark when you think about it!
I do love the undertones of this episode. Parents need to be more selective of what they expose their kids to, films and TV shows teaching values, ideals and behaviors that may ultimately serve some corporate agenda.
Another good movie that shows the tragedy of child soldiers is Beasts of No Nation.
8:20 He is not wrong. He missed that children also lack empathy, its why so many of us were so mean and cruel to other ppl animals and things when we were younger. Empathy is developed in late teens. But yea if i were a dictator hell bent on building a force. Id absolutely use children. Id never adhear to any "rules" of war either. War is war and i feel "rules of war" is simply you trying to tie my hands to make the act of war more tolerable when its not. Its the idea of a "fair fight" Ill do what i have to to win. So yea kids are ON the menu!
8:15 Horrifying that someone so young has enough life experience for that much insight.
Those who do not feared deaths are fools. But allowing greed to have a room in it can costed a great fortune.
If you want a good example of what happens to clone soldiers after enough time I'd recommend watching Star Trek DS9. The Jem'Hadar have a lot of similarities to the Fett clones.
Disney does not want you to know because they don't either, it would mean understanding the lore as Lucas wrote it. Darth Kennedy would be crushed literally if she ever truly grasped the weight of her incompetence.
Dude I cannot imagine what it is like being a grown ass adult and writing a comment like this.
@@FloofMother It is the sign of being a grown adult to be able to take in data through observation and form an opinion based upon it. I could sit slack jawed in front of a television, slowly drooling while staring at the pretty lights. The problem is I would have to suspend disbelief to the point of losing any touch with logic or reason. Kennedy is a "producer" until relatively recently this was a quietly if barely acknowledged part of making entertainment. All a producer really does is write checks. Occasionally a writer or actor might be a producer as well. When a producer deludes themselves into believing they are the real creative artist behind Lucas and Spielberg, and has an absolute hatred for everything she will never be, you get Darth Kennedy.
@@mikewaterfield3599 awesome it’s also the sign of a grown adult to be able to not vilify people you’ve never met in fucking Star Wars terms and blame them for a complex set of corporate decisions.
@@mikewaterfield3599 “has an absolute hatred for everything she will never be” dude, you’re narrativizing a mundane set of events: an executive makes decisions they believe will maximize profit. That’s it. There’s no psychology or emotion to it, she’s just doing what her job is, for better or worse. I don’t exactly like her or really any executive for that matter, but I recognize why these decisions are being made, because you have to actually understand that to be able to criticize it correctly. Making it a black and white heroes and villains story makes your analysis bad and also makes you look like a cringelord
@@FloofMother Fair, I have never met the woman, but here’s something anyone with a rudimentary education in economics can understand. An IP that sold between 1977 and the day Lucas sold it that made 33 billion in merchandising alone (adjusted for inflation) that was considered worth another 4.1 billion for the rights to, has yet to break even since Disney bought it. See an IP’s value is based entirely on the fan base. This is doubly true in entertainment which by it’s nature is an entirely optional expense in peoples lives. Deliberately antagonizing a built in audience is the sort of crap that usually gets people fired. Whatever twitter clout Disney earned with arm chair activists and key board warriors is worth nothing on the NY stock exchange and it sure as hell does not equate to ticket sales. Ep 7 was bound to have a nearly rabid audience fir sheer hype alone. Not having seen what Disney has done with it….. well it’s crap. The original films were far from perfect but they stuck to tried and true writing methods and character arcs. Deny it all you want, personally I am convinced Kennedy has black mail files. Had she been a man she would have been fired as unceremoniously as Chapek was. Generally speaking in any business pissing in your customer’s cheeri O’s is a sure fire way to earn a pink slip. Disney is desperate to turn Star Wars into a chick IP when simple reality is sci fi has always been more popular with men regardless of the protagonist. We the audience owe Disney nothing. Somehow they have forgotten that. They own the IP an unfortunately can do with it what they like, just don’t blame us if we are unwilling to reward you for it.
Yes, I genuinely believe Darth Kennedy is a mean spirited, spiteful, petty, vindictive woman who at her core is exceedingly jealous that she was always in the room with two men who drunk and recovering from a brain injury have more creativity that she would have on her best day with all nine muses waiting on her.
1:29 But Sir, their aging was accelerated.
Okay you addressed it afterwards! >:O xD
The first batch wouldn't have been. Not just the null arc and commandos.
I will tell you a secret REALLY does not want you to know: The imperial and ESPECIALLY First Order emblems are BLACK SUNS which while not created by the Nazi's were heavily usurped by them much like how they usurped the Manji. Its actually quite good thematics from a story telling perspective given the fact that the imperials are essentially space nazi's but its still really akward and even kind of funny watching Disney sell first order hats.
Look at Sith emblem, subtlety out of the window
The fact the Clones were actually child soldiers is missed by most. But I think Lucas purposesly did it to reflect the real world of young men conscripted for the war. Historically young men are the cannon fodder for the war effort.
A friend of mine loves SW. When I commented about these child soldiers she was soooo aghast.
Hey @generationtech
Unrelated question...
How can Sidious and Dooku look so good ?
Sidious has one big fight and he goes all raisin.
How can a Sith exist in the Sith world for decades gaining experience and skill - without looking like a raisin like the emperor became?
Sith aren't pampered. Masters use pain to teach their apprentices. And here are two Sith lords who look like they haven't worked a day in their life.
If you are looking for a book series to read - Old Man's War and The Ghost Brigades. The second book is most relevant to the child warrior.
I’m not sure if I completely agree. For one, I think clones were trained for ten years before being deployed, not nine. Rex and Cody are both stated to have been made in 32 BBY, the same year Count Dooku chose Jango Fett to become the template for the Clone Army. Honestly I don’t even get where the nine years idea came from.
Second, if the Republic didn’t fall that would mean the Jedi stopped Palpatine and exposed his plan. I honestly think the entire Republic would turn on the clones. Mostly it would be due to fear of them still betraying the government for Palpatine even if the chips are removed. Though some would also see this as the opportunity to finally get rid of the clones and make a military made up of Republic citizens. You know who is in the latter group. I would bet the clones would be banished to Kamino, which would be kicked out of the Republic even if the Kaminoans never knew the truth themselves. The Jedi Order would unfortunately be too busy handling their own affairs and making sure Palpatine’s supporters don’t continue his plans. Maybe they would have a few Jedi keep an eye out on Kamino, but things will be hectic in those first few years. I think most clones would go along with this both due to their loyalty to both the Jedi and the Republic, but also the horror of their true purpose and possibly fear that they may still be a threat to others.
Now, assuming this scenario in my head didn’t happen and Clones were still kept on by the Republic, I still doubt we would reach the point of open rebellion. I mean, wouldn’t the Jedi Order do what it can to help the clones? What about senators that would want to reward the clones after their years of service? Not to mention all the people who would have viewed the GAR as a temporary measure and want to return back to pre-Clone Wars days? Don’t forget about how expensive the clones are and the fact the last samples of Jango Fett’s DNA were fading out.
As corrupt as the Republic could be, I honestly think that if they didn’t let fear rule them, they would actually award the clones or at least ensure their decommissioning wasn’t like what the Empire did. Yeah, the Prequels are morally grey, but the Jedi are still Jedi and in this scenario, the Republic is still the Republic. The clones would get off pretty well.
Now, I still totally get how horrid the lives of the clones are. The Kaminoans were cold-hearted, Jango Fett didn’t care, and the Empire screwed the clones over. They’re best time alive was in the Clone Wars, fighting against hordes of battle droids while most of the people they fought for didn’t truly respect them. They most likely didn’t get any pay during the war and given what we saw in the Bad Batch, nobody really thought about what would happen to the clones after the war.
What I find to be unfair with this video is that it basically excludes the Jedi. The only mention of them is how unpopular they would be to the clones after Geonosis, but even if this was true in Canon as it is in Legends, I would think the Jedi would become popular to the clones again. It is after all the Jedi who encourage the clones to get names and act more independent. If anything a lot of the negative things that would normally happen to the clones likely were averted under the command of the Jedi. They usually try to minimize casualties after all. Now if the clones were assigned to Republic officers like Tarkin, I absolutely think clones like Rex would never become the men they became. The clones got lucky with the Jedi.
I get that this is an essential part of the story of the clones, but with the final season of the Bad Batch coming out next year, I feel like we’re in for a flood of clone tragedy. Honestly I want to talk about the more positive things about the clones before that season comes out. Their relationship with the Jedi, their brotherhood with each other, clone culture that developed during the war, and their heroics. One last hurrah before we see the Empire crush the clones for good.
A lot issues teenagers face they already went through as little kids preschoolers s in fact. Problem is we forget abd think movies like inside out Tell us loosing life experience makes us mature .
. Plus many concepts are actually easy to grasp adults just complicate . Make leaps definitions . Rules of thinking just because. Not no thinking why. We to empathis on who but on how . Death is a simple concept to grasp why death is permanent is more of a scientific question
Reality of life shoved in your viewers face . Brave choice lad. Bang out of order for kids to see , good luck explaining that parents.
Your voice is soooo soothing Allen. Thanks
Every is compared to highschool except preschool
Creatine... just creatine. Haha ain't that the truth. Lol
Is anyone else finding it difficult to just be a Star Wars fan nowadays?
13:15 I'm surprised you didn't say "Disney" or "George Lucas"
You say children grow to critical thinking...but then again think how many people don't grow up and question anything.
You create a large enough society to believe something and they'll destroy themselves before changing.
please make regular star wars content I don’t want a extensional crisis because I’m wondering about a video (real note all true)
Big fax ty
I don’t think jango was a mando bred mandalorian but I could be wrong
It's sad that they was all nine years old on geonosis when I told my fiance that when we watched attack of the clones she got well sad and asked if it was true I told her yh they got advanced ageing put into there genes
the "rumoured" clone madness was caused by ,an ever impatient Sidious, who made the kaminoans, speed up there incubation times... the worst batches were incubated in less than a year
i'm wondering when / if they'll ever utilized this legends piece of lore ,into canon ...
A smaller target is hard to hit .
The Palpatine youth
15:58 Sounds familiar. LIke what schools are doing to our kids now. Im gay but i don't need or want that at school. These kids are being force fed bull sht.
Kids are being told at school: "hey gay people exist and that's okay"
You: "INDOCTRINATION!!!!!!!!"
I love how people insist that all the lgbt stuff is the highest form of indoctrination but of course religious schools and all the religious references in schools are all perfectly okay.
Hopped up on brown brown
Coke & gunpowder
Thanks, I liked your analysis comparing Clone troopers to child soldiers. I think Star Wars does have a strong message against indoctrination and authoritarianism.
i have question. how Kaminoens were payed for their work ? Does Palpatine payed us quietly for 10 years with the help of Dooku ? Or Palpatine payed them in the Attack of the Clones when the clone army was revealed to the galaxy ?
It's Hard to Except Anyone Could Take That Violent Nonsense Seriously, But, Ya Know! We Live on Earth Where Complete and Absolute Stupidity Flows Like Wildfire!
Bravo
There is absolutely nothing to suggest the clones have the mental maturity of children. The brain of a clone is not somehow left behind while the rest of the body matures. The ENTIRE process is compressed. They would be naïve due to social isolation on Kamino but that's social, not biological, and a product of isolation, not age. By the start of the war the clones had YEARS of education and military training- these were NOT a bunch of kids straight out of boot camp with no real skills to speak of, these were professionals. The US military takes teens who are completely clueless, often sheltered, and definitely not in possession of anything resembling expertise, and in less than a year - less than half a year if need be - can toss them in the middle of a war. I guarantee they are less mentally prepared than the clones. You don't need to make up an imaginary condition where somehow the aging process skipped their brains for the clones to be tragic. They're tragic because all choice was stripped from them at every turn. Because they were made to fight a senseless war they had no stake in. Because it doesn't matter whether they would have or would not have followed order 66 without the chip, either way, all they were to the sith were meat puppets, to be used, discarded, and forgotten.
See this why I was REALLY hoping they'd do some serious story telling with Fin's story as a child soldier. but nope, got a shitty side character with no depth or conflict, blah.
They don’t want you to know that lead character is a girl and she’s gay and laaaaame
Eh, I don't agree with this assertion that the clones were all mentally 9 y/o when they were ready for service. The argument works on paper, but in reality all of the clone troopers we've seen have exhibited mental faculties appropriate to their 18+ y/o presentation.
9:25 Japanese empire during ww2 💀
I usually do not comment but, I must say I love that Israeli flag in your background.
Day 218 PLEASE DO MORE TACTICS VIDEOS AND STRUCTURES LIKE THE CIS NAVY STRUCTURE AND RANKS
For a guy who always say that his allegiance is to the republic, to democracy, you sure keep pointing out there flaws and demorocy is simply a tool to keep you in line
Allegiance to something means it's your duty to point out it's flaws and wrongdoings.
Anyone who is loyal to a nation or ideology and then blindly accepts anything it's leaders say without criticism is a failure to his nation even if he pretends to be all patriotic by waving some flags around.
I really miss Christopher Hitchens. We need someone like him right now.
Not only to criticize religion, but also politics and other BS.
I'm locked up but I'm fine. Just hospital mental crap
NF trust ft. Tech 9
Really? Putting the flag of a nation committing a genocide in the background? Yeah, not touching this channel again.
Children under tge concept of desth easier it was alive but now it's not. Its adults eho complicates. It like after Life
Physiologically age only adds wisdom when you let it.
and neurolocally the brain is only fully developed unti it goes senile
Sadly true😅
I have a version of me and I’m not even a guy technically Innoway I’m not female either. Yeah yeah but ex and Y chromosome that I was assigned female at birth. It had the female reproductive organs and all that stuff I went through female puberty, but I need a male or female, and I still have that part in my history in my past
Pretty durn dark.
Inhibitor chips were the worst thing introduced in the show. Legends version of order 66 was better.
If they wanted a bunch of overgrown child soldiers to be zealot killers an not care about getting killed or maimed at same time. They shoulda been raised an trained like some real world cultures in antiquity did. Like the Samurai an Spartans an some Barbarian tribes did. An Even all these was more specific factions of a culture or 2 then a specific culture in its entirety. It's not always a great thing. Fortune favors the bold though an stories an tactics like using a tree to shoot from a supported an elevated position MIGHTVE been all the difference as assaulting frontally entrenched positions IS often suicide too on a battlefield an we're taught in the Service that's to be avoided UNLESS your desperate and outta any other options. But no guts no glory too. So.. USA I guess...