They are both liars. Now, watch the clip again, with this premise in mind... (instead of all that _"one of us always tells the truth and one of us always lies"_ ... crap!)
Her logic was fine. Oh except one of them was lying when they both explained that one tells lies and one tells truths. The rules themselves were paradoxical.
Red is the one who says "You can only ask one of us" and yet they both respond to her numerous questions and statements. Blue is the only one who warns that one of them always lies. I always took from that, that Red is the liar and she simply assumed his statement of "You can only ask one of us" meant "You can only ask one of us which path leads where" and that she took it at face value as one of the rules, rather than him simply telling an insignificant lie. Like Hoggle says in the beginning, her problem is she takes things for granted.
Love this movie, love this scene and the ancient logic puzzle it presents. Here's a problem though: the way the scene is presented, the rules, if they exist at all are broken before the question is asked. I'll take each guard as 2 entities, of which the bottom 2 are exempt from the true/false limitations..otherwise the game is broken even sooner as both make enough statements of fact that we must accept them as true. So, the top 2...Red says "you can only ask one of us", which Blue says is one of the rules. Blue then explains the 2nd rule...one tells the truth, one always lies. This "always" is the key as it must apply retroactively to everything stated to that point. Let's assume Blue is supposed to be the truthful one, which I always assumed. His explanation of the 2nd rule and all interactions with Red after would be true, however, if Red always lies, then he would have lied when he said "you can only ask one of us". This falsehood would be fine, except that Blue confirms it as "in the rules". Ok, so maybe Blue is the liar. Red explains rule one...fine. Blue confirms (falsely), which means it isn't in the rules, so Red lied and we have a paradox. Anyway, moving on for the sake of the scene...Then Blue explains the true/false limitation, again falsely, so neither guard is bound by the truth/lies rule and Sarah had no better than a 50/50 shot. Unless...we accept that the guards are only bound to the rules as it pertains to questions about the doors behind them. Regardless, it's a fun, intelligent scene in a superbly creative movie and it's partially thanks to this scene that I enjoy dissecting the logic in this and similar scenes. Thanks for reading!
Friday 2nd December 2022. I love Fantasy Films from the 80s and Labyrinth is one of my favourites. Thank you for sharing this. R.I.P Jim Henson and David Bowie. Love from Virginia Clark.?! ;) ;( :) 😀🌨🌍❄🌈
I always thought the easier question would be to ask each door what color is on it, and clearly the one that says the wrong color is the one that's lying
@@HiImBQ But they're still talking with her before the "one question". Even if they won't answer a direct question like "is the sky blue" I feel like she could just talk to them until one says something clearly false.
Guard 1: No, you can't ask us. You can only ask one of us. Guard 2 *agrees*: Which is the rules. And I should warn you that one of us always tells the truth and one of us always lies. That's a rule too. The partnership where one must always lie and one must always tell the truth are in agreement. There's definitely nothing suspicious about that lol. She figured out the logic puzzle but missed the obvious problem from the start.
The basics of this solve can be seen with math. Treat ‘true’ as 1, and ‘false’ as -1. The preface of the question is “I ask you, if I were to ask the other guy…” In math, this is multiplying true and false, making -1. The conclusion is “would he say that [thing] is true?” Since the [thing] is ‘true’ or ‘false,’ and being multiplied by -1, the opposite answer received is the Truth. If you don’t like math: By asking the truth teller what the liar would respond, he will honestly lie. By asking the liar what the other will say, he will lie about the honesty. You got them both to give the same lie, so the opposite is the answer.
Of course, both of them could be lying. Or one of them could be wrong in their conclusion unknowingly. Or they could have misunderstood your question. Or the rules.
Citizens = Jennifer Connelly, the system is the labyrinth and the door keepers are the two parties, this is how I see America today! Seriously, watch it in that context its scary how accurate it is lol
I'm finally getting smarter! Red was the liar from the start, she may not have gotten an answer, but nothing ever prevented her from ASKING both doormen. Blue was the truth teller.
And she was, indeed, correct. That logic gate is foolproof, as long as every person follows the rules
Yes, the answer and logic are correct for the riddle posed. However, it only really works if the guards themselves actually know the answer.
They are both liars.
Now, watch the clip again, with this premise in mind... (instead of all that _"one of us always tells the truth and one of us always lies"_ ... crap!)
Her logic was fine. Oh except one of them was lying when they both explained that one tells lies and one tells truths. The rules themselves were paradoxical.
Red is the one who says "You can only ask one of us" and yet they both respond to her numerous questions and statements. Blue is the only one who warns that one of them always lies. I always took from that, that Red is the liar and she simply assumed his statement of "You can only ask one of us" meant "You can only ask one of us which path leads where" and that she took it at face value as one of the rules, rather than him simply telling an insignificant lie. Like Hoggle says in the beginning, her problem is she takes things for granted.
@@ScrambledAndBenedict If blue was lying, the whole thing would be effed.
@@changer_of_ways_999 Problem there, is if blue always lies, then him saying "one of us always lies" is the truth.
Love this movie, love this scene and the ancient logic puzzle it presents. Here's a problem though: the way the scene is presented, the rules, if they exist at all are broken before the question is asked.
I'll take each guard as 2 entities, of which the bottom 2 are exempt from the true/false limitations..otherwise the game is broken even sooner as both make enough statements of fact that we must accept them as true.
So, the top 2...Red says "you can only ask one of us", which Blue says is one of the rules. Blue then explains the 2nd rule...one tells the truth, one always lies. This "always" is the key as it must apply retroactively to everything stated to that point.
Let's assume Blue is supposed to be the truthful one, which I always assumed. His explanation of the 2nd rule and all interactions with Red after would be true, however, if Red always lies, then he would have lied when he said "you can only ask one of us". This falsehood would be fine, except that Blue confirms it as "in the rules".
Ok, so maybe Blue is the liar. Red explains rule one...fine. Blue confirms (falsely), which means it isn't in the rules, so Red lied and we have a paradox. Anyway, moving on for the sake of the scene...Then Blue explains the true/false limitation, again falsely, so neither guard is bound by the truth/lies rule and Sarah had no better than a 50/50 shot.
Unless...we accept that the guards are only bound to the rules as it pertains to questions about the doors behind them.
Regardless, it's a fun, intelligent scene in a superbly creative movie and it's partially thanks to this scene that I enjoy dissecting the logic in this and similar scenes.
Thanks for reading!
Friday 2nd December 2022. I love Fantasy Films from the 80s and Labyrinth is one of my favourites. Thank you for sharing this. R.I.P Jim Henson and David Bowie. Love from Virginia Clark.?! ;) ;( :) 😀🌨🌍❄🌈
I always thought the easier question would be to ask each door what color is on it, and clearly the one that says the wrong color is the one that's lying
or he is color blind
But you'd still not know which door to take and your one question is gone.
only get one question
@@HiImBQ But they're still talking with her before the "one question". Even if they won't answer a direct question like "is the sky blue" I feel like she could just talk to them until one says something clearly false.
Guard 1: No, you can't ask us. You can only ask one of us.
Guard 2 *agrees*: Which is the rules. And I should warn you that one of us always tells the truth and one of us always lies. That's a rule too.
The partnership where one must always lie and one must always tell the truth are in agreement. There's definitely nothing suspicious about that lol.
She figured out the logic puzzle but missed the obvious problem from the start.
She could have asked them "What is the air
speed velocity of an unladen swallow"?
The basics of this solve can be seen with math.
Treat ‘true’ as 1, and ‘false’ as -1. The preface of the question is “I ask you, if I were to ask the other guy…” In math, this is multiplying true and false, making -1. The conclusion is “would he say that [thing] is true?” Since the [thing] is ‘true’ or ‘false,’ and being multiplied by -1, the opposite answer received is the Truth.
If you don’t like math:
By asking the truth teller what the liar would respond, he will honestly lie.
By asking the liar what the other will say, he will lie about the honesty.
You got them both to give the same lie, so the opposite is the answer.
Literally just watched Labyrinth the other day.
This is one of my favourite riddles
Make more movies like this.
To be fair, how many other participants have entered the labyrinth to make remembering the answer worth it?
“Are we in a Labyrinth right now, and which door leads to the castle?”
Classic riddle.
...I miss Jim Henson...
"One of us always tells the truth, and one of us always lies. That's a rule, too. He always lies."
"I do not! I tell the truth!"
"Oh, what a lie~!"
OK but you already know that the one who explained the rules is the one who tells the truth, OR the rules were a lie and you can ignore them.
This is one scene that I can never understand, and I've seen this movie so many times, I've literally lost count.
One will lie about the truth, and the other will tell the truth about a lie. But in both cases it's a lie.
I’ve always wondered…what was behind the red door?
This is like Knights and Knaves
Jennifer Connelly so lovely
She never even asked what door was safe though
My question would be “Which door would the other guard say is the wrong door?”
Of course, both of them could be lying. Or one of them could be wrong in their conclusion unknowingly. Or they could have misunderstood your question. Or the rules.
Look lads, I'm just tryin' to do a job here.
No boddy loves that place
Citizens = Jennifer Connelly, the system is the labyrinth and the door keepers are the two parties, this is how I see America today! Seriously, watch it in that context its scary how accurate it is lol
I made a comment in a news media documentary citing the same conclusion. thats how I arrived at wanting to watch this specific scene
Is he wearing g blue
See why couldn't The Owl House been made by the Jim Henson Company
I'm finally getting smarter! Red was the liar from the start, she may not have gotten an answer, but nothing ever prevented her from ASKING both doormen. Blue was the truth teller.
Maybe they both always lie