Dear viewers / subscribers, I did not receive these test results from any 3rd party. The excel tables, graphs, editor data, savefiles, photoshopped images, countless number of trials etc. used in my videos are all my original work. I didn't receive them from anyone. More on this in my next video.
@@ebfm Thank you for the response. I always used your training schedules and resources from your videos as I always viewed you as the most reliable. Keep up the good work!
Been using your EBTS training for lower english league with only 4 sessions per week. Nobody complain and they all achieved above 7 rating in training. Thank you for this. ☺️
I found your channel today and binge watched all 11 episodes. This series has been very interesting and informative, I've learned a lot about aspects of the game I had been ignoring for a while or just didn't understand. I'll definitely try out a new save soon and apply everything you've shown us! Great work Max, looking forward to your next video
Thanks. I tend to ignore training complaints if they're about general team training, but listen to them if I've set individual training. The training rating seems to go up a lot when I do that. I'd have thought growth must be a lot better if players are happy and training well, though admittedly I've not tested it quite as thoroughly as you would!
The EBTS works amazing for youth- and B-teams. I'm 7 seasons into my Mallorca save and there are 5 of my own youth players in the squad, 2 are even starters with 160+ CA. Very good development!
This series was so good Max. Have you considered a series on Mentoring? I think your in depth analysis would lend itself well to this. Like what is optimum mentoring group size, does position matter for mentor/mentee, can younger players mentor older players, whats the best age for a mentor? so many variables. I've been kicking some ideas around myself to do this but i don't have the graph skills 😂
Hey bud, mentoring is a topic that's requested all the time 😅 but haven't had the chance yet to tackle it. After the current Youth Intake series possibly I could look into it. Why don't you give it a go? Trust me before I started all this I had no idea how to use Excel or make graphs. But where there's a will there's a way, you learn over time.
About players complaining: that usually comes with the 3 physicals per week (2 is fine in most cases, unless player personality is somewhat bad). And in my experience it does affect training results, pretty seriously too. Morale and satisfaction plays a fairly big part in training rating, and that unhappiness will lower the player's training rating. Even when otherwise in ideal condition (team performing well, everyone happy, etc) a player would get 9/10 if content with the training regimen, when unhappy with the regimen he could easily go less than 8, which is still good, but usually already differs a lot in actual CA/attribute growth. Some more unhappiness from other sources (IE: a few bad match results lately) and the unhappiness effect compounds quickly. Now, your data shows that 3 phys weeks are still better *on the whole*, meaning that even if a couple players get detrimental effects, the full team will average an advantage, so that's settled and not really in question. In a real game, however, it depends. First and foremost one could have more bad personalities in his team than in your test environment, which could shift that average by a lot. Even more than that, though, it's when the unhappy - and possibly stunted - one is your star youngster. You may totally ignore unhappiness from a 24 yo that's 130/140 CA/PA, but the last one you want to see having complaints is your 18yo 110/180 CA/PA that you are beginning to give match exposure to slowly reach his potential. You can't afford HIM getting less than ideal development. In many cases that alone could justify switching to a 2 phys sessions week. Which is indeed what I do: only 2 phys (or even only 1 in the busiest weeks) and I put in some match tactics, preview/review*, team cohesion or rehab instead, depending on what I need most that week. No one is ever unhappy (in a team with fairly professional players at least) and I get at least 8-9 average training ratings with hardly ever anyone performing badly (except the very old players that are declining, and thus are usually rated below 7). I feel that's a better balance outside of a test environment. *Match review has an advantage: everyone does it, even when tired and would otherwise skip other sessions if so instructed in the training rest settings. This compounds to some additional growth that other sessions placed the day after a match would not get as half your team would actually NOT do them as they are too tired from the match they just played.
Hey bud, you're right, I'm relying on average values from a large sample pool so it's possible that there are few unhappy players that are bringing the average values down. I do need to rely on average values though because just looking at a few players would not be very scientific. It's interesting that 2 Physical sessions cause less complaints from players. The question though is whether a high training rating / high morale actually translate into greater growth. It is something I need to test before I can say for sure.
@@ebfm I'm not exactly sure of the order of factors in the calculation , but I've consistently noticed that lower training ratings have an evident correlation with lower average CA increase of the player. Those that score 10 or close to that are also those that (if young enough and with enough growth margin available, even when very young the growth slows dramatically once there's only 10 points between CA and PA) more consistently (even given the rng factor of each "roll") gain 2-3 CA per month. When they have been getting a lower rating the same players that month tend to show/have shown a much lower growth (if at all). Considering that the training rating constantly updates while CA/attribute increases are calculated only once per month, I'd guess the rating comes first and is one of the values the game takes in consideration for the CA gain "dice roll". However sometimes you also see one of those weird months where a fast growing player has a hiccup and several attributes actually decline a little (sometimes in favour of just one or two probably heavier weighting ones) and the training rating appears to go down *after* that. This is also what seems like to happen with older players: even when model professionals who you know are training well, their attributes decline due to aging, and the lower training rating they usually get seems to reflect that. So it's a bit hard to tell for sure which comes first (actually I'd guess there's some other hidden value in the background both functions pull from, some value that reflects how much positive training "points" a player has been accumulating). But the correlation is definitely there. As for complaints about physical, indeed those about "too much training in pace/strength" et similia are caused by too many physical sessions in a week. When you follow the old idea that you have to go heavy on phys in the preseason, you get a lot of complaints that month, for instance (and usually also lower training ratings across the board). In my experience 3 are almost always too much and enough to displease 4-5 players, 2 are much safer. When you have a top team or have built your all model citizen squad it matters little (especially if they have high morale due to club performances and/or they like you personally and are thus less prone to complain), but in the beginnings with certain clubs it can be bothersome.
@@kadatherion_ I definitely notice that players with high training ratings grow faster. Whenever I sign wonderkids eg. Endrick, they always get near perfect training ratings every month and they grow at super speed. But I just can't confirm it without doing a test. I did a test with EBTS23 minus 1 Physical session (7:01, 4th from the bottom) and it resulted in less growth compared to the EBTS23, that's why I went with 3 Phy sessions/week. But if you feel 2 Physical sessions are better than 3, go right ahead, you are free to make your own adjustments.
@@ebfm absolutely. As I mentioned, your averages speak for themselves, although it could be argued the test environment might skew some things a bit (I don't remember right now if you freeze morale in the tests... You do remove injuries but the actual condition isn't frozen iirc). It could actually be interesting to see some numbers - as some other people have suggested - with individual positional training set up: that SHOULD make all those sessions with "20% individual role" training be more effective; or, at least, that's what we've believed for a while, some statistical analysis would be very welcome. That, coupled with training rest settings (like double intensity when at full condition) and the placement after match day of sessions that do NOT get skipped when tired (like the aforementioned match review), might lead to an even more perfected schedule. It's pretty much what I try to do tweaking your base schedule sacrificing a few slots, but some of the results I believe I notice might very well be placebo.
Thoughts for some other tests for training. Effect of Team Bonding and Community Outreach on player happiness Effect of Training on Match Performance Examples: Effect of Chance Creation on match performance (overall XG) Effect of Chance Conversion on match performance (goals/XG) Effect of Attacking Corners on the number of Corners Scored Effect of Aerial Defense on the number of headers won Etc
One feedback: You had said that the only minus with the schedule was gk not improving so i added one goalkeeping session per week and my gk developed fairly well.
Honestly this video made me realise something about the previous videos. The reason why Match Practice was chosen as the best session was because it was the most efficient per slot. To calculate how efficient a training session's slot is you took the attribute gain from all week of that type of training session, and divided it by the times it was used in a week. So the attribute gain of Defending was divided by 7, attribute gain of Match Practice was divided by 2, attribute gain of Match Tactics was divided by 3 etc. However, since the growth from sessions is not linear (7 sessions per week do not give 7 times more growth compared to just one session), that metric is invalid. Since the "optimal" growth is at about 3-4 sessions per week and any more do not give much growth, those sessions that you can use 7 of in a week are inherently at a disadvantage. For example, 4 defending sessions give about the same gain as 7 defending sessions (11.7 CA vs 12.7 CA in this video). Using the numbers from this video, 11.7/4 is 2.925 CA per session, 12.7/7 is 1.814 CA per session. The same session got two drastically different scores, despite the fact we only changed one variable (whether we use it 4 or 7 times in a week) I believe the reason why Match Tactics scored so much in that metric (and why it ultimately didn't succeed in the final schedule), is that it's just limited to 3 sessions per week. As I said earlier, sessions that can be used 7 times per week are at a disadvantage. This overestimates the sessions such as Match Practice and Match Tactics a bit. I believe that if all sessions were used just 3 times per week in the initial experiment, Match Tactics would just be yet another random training session that isn't really exceptional. I personally don't think that this little thing changes much, as a large majority of the sessions can be used 7 times per week. Match Practice is the best even at just 2 sessions per week, Match Tactics was looked at and failed, other match preparation training sessions were bad even with the advantages they were given. However, I believe this is something to be taken into consideration in the future experiments.
Hey bud, very keen observations you make. I admit I still do not have the full answers. How many Def/Att sessions/week are optimal? The various kinds of tests led to conflicting conclusions and in the end I did have to rely on an element of hit-and-miss (7:02) to manually find the best schedule. After all this time, there are still many unanswered questions.
Hi Max, This was a great series, I enjoyed watching it and it was very informative. As a long time player and fan of the series I have three suggestions for you to test, if you would. First is about pre-season physical training. I too used to think it was a myth, until I tried it 2-3 installments ago. When the coaches and players give feedback on the training screen, I remember seeing a message about they were more fit or something thanks to the pre-season training intensity. So the game somehow acknowledges this. And this is purely anecdotal and not statistically relevant, but since I started doing more physical training in the pre-season I noticed that there were fewer injuries and the overall conditions of the players were better. Maybe you could test if this is really the case? Second is about training sessions with bonuses. With every installment of the game I pick a team that is expected to finish between 20-24th in Sky Bet League Two. And since FM19, I consistently got back to back promotions to Championship. After that it takes 2-3 seasons to get to Premier League. And generally, it takes more for people to get to PL. What I do different is that I focus on training sessions that give bonuses and make sure I have them every week; set pieces, defensive shape, attacking movement and teamwork. Of course there is the human factor in play with tactics, transfers etc. But I do believe these training sessions and their bonuses help me to consistently outperform the expectations. Admittedly, this probably results in less development for the players but that is never the goal until I reach PL. Maybe you could test the effectiveness of these sessions? Lastly, what do you think about testing more specific training sessions? The approach you have is to use holistic sessions and maximize CA. But the sessions being holistic could result in attacking players developing defensive attributes, and defensive players developing attacking attributes. For example 1 CA point for a striker could mean 1 in positioning, 1 in tackling and 1 in concentration. But 2 CA points could mean 1 in finishing, since more relevant attributes for the position take more CA. But I would take the finishing any day even though it consumes more CA. A more specific training session towards this could result in less CA gains, but more attribute gains in the relevant attributes. I know this is harder to test than the first two but it is also a more interesting case. Thank you for your work. It is very detailed and statistically sound. Hope you continue creating great content :)
Hey mate, all keen observations & questions! 1. There is no evidence to suggest that players respond to training differently at different stages during a season. Yes I've also noticed that the game hints and nudges you to do more 'physical training' during pre-season. My best guess: during pre-season the match load is low (1-2 friendlies/week at most), and assuming that 'physical training sessions' eg. Physical, Endurance, Resistance cause higher amounts of fatigue compared to the other training sessions, it makes sense that these training sessions are held during pre-season when the players are less tired. But this is assuming that the 'physical training sessions' cause more fatigue compared to the 'non-physical' training sessions. Or I could be wrong - the Physical Attributes of players may indeed be hardcoded to grow faster during pre-season. It's something that can be tested in the future, perhaps when FM24 comes out. 2. I haven't tested the relationship between Bonuses & team performance so can't say for sure. My guess is that high bonus leads to a boost in player morale which may improve player performance on the pitch. But for this to be true, I will first need to prove that high player Morale leads to better performance on the pitch. 3. This is another FAQ. I did indeed take a holistic approach rather than aiming for specialised growth. I do not believe that specialised growth that considers playing position is possible. It appears that as long as adequate training & match exposure is provided, players will automatically distribute their attributes depending on their playing position. If you take a look at the excel files I uploaded with the Part 7 video (www.dropbox.com/s/bm9wtlofuwlhf5m/Training%207%20for%20Dropbox.xlsx?dl=0), I've broken down player growth into the different playing positions (ST/AM/DM/DL/DC/GK). You'll be able to see that even when 1 type of training session was used throughout the entire season, players still knew how to grow according to their playing positions. Besides, even if the construction of specialised training schedules was possible, the fact that you can only use 1 training schedule at a time for the senior squad forces one to look for a holistic schedule that caters for all players in the squad. If you could somehow build a schedule that was great for defenders (effective at growing TAC / MAR / POS), would you use it, when you know it would be detrimental to other players in the squad? Unless you wanted your strikers to become great tacklers and markers!
@@ebfm Thanks for the detailed response. Just for the third response, think of it like how ground defense improved your GKs. Hypothetically, maybe some GK training also develops your strikers similar to it and you can use it conjuction with other similar trainings, which could possibly result in less CA gain but more relevant attribute gains? It's a long shot but a case I wondered about. But anyway, that should be in your files and I might try it out myself after checking them. Again, thanks for the great content. Looking forward for more :)
Hey Max, thanks for your great work. A have some suggestions to make: 1. About the match practise session and since its the only session that boosts the "individual roles" attributes, i think a good idea would be to run some tests having players to train on individual roles (on their natural position ofcourse) and see if match practise session is even more powerfull in boosting attributes/CA if individual roles are selected on each player. 2. Maybe you can experiment a bit with training weeks WITHOUT any Physical schedules at all (none of them: Physical/Resistance/Quickness etc.). And the reason i am saying this is that Physical training schedules stop the growth or even worse, decrease other attributes (apart the physical ones) and from my experience i see that players increase attributes and reach their PA faster without any physical training at all. I know that physical attributes are the most powerfull in the game, especially pace and acceleration, but you can compensate this by making any player in your team train quickness on additional focus. In addition, according to your experiments, match practise, ground defence and even match tactics boost the physical attributes by some good amount so replacing physical training schedules with some more match tactics and/or ground defence might be better for players' growth. Lastly, i've experienced A LOT less injuries in my saves without any physical schedules at all. Just some suggestions for further experiments. Thanks a lot again for your great work. Keep it up!
Hey bud, they are both great suggestions. Admittedly I didn't explore individual roles / individual training in too much depth this year. I do feel I need to move onto other aspects of the game though, there are tons of requests that I've been putting off for ages 😅 Maybe next year with FM24 I'll get a chance to explore training in more depth, as you suggest.
Great Video as always! It would be interesting, if there is a difference in the team performance between your training schedule and a standard schedule. The match preparation training isn't that effective for player growth, but maybe it can boost the the performance and therefore you win more games. Would be nice if you could check that out!
Great work there, thanks for the time spending to provide us with all these. I wanted to give you an idea for something to add in your tests. Let's say for example we have assign a specific role to train for each one player. Would it be possible to check the results ONLY for the attributes needed for each player separating the attack from the defensive units and get rid of the rest? I saw the spreadsheets and i know you have kind of something like that, but would it be possible to be more accurate on the attributes that WE want on the roles that WE want for each player? For example my strikers tend to increase their marking and their throw ins and never their finishing hehe. You are top btw, keep up the good work and thanks again for providing us. 🙏🤛👍
Hey bud, I considered doing that in my excel tables, but every single role in FM has a different range of 'recommended attributes'. eg. the attributes needed for Pressing Forward Att are different from Pressing Forward Def.. So I'm not sure how I can highlight the 'recommended attributes' in my excel tables.
Really enjoyed and learned a lot from your training series. Would love to see you go back into tactics a bit. Have you thought of doing a possession series? to see how you can manipulate tactics to dominate possession (or 1,000+ passes)?
Hey mate, there are still couple more unturned stones related to training that I wish to investigate, then I might move onto other aspects of the game.
also could be worth testing 1 phys on double training vs 2 phys on normal if they are comparable you could have 2 phys training sessions and an extra rest session to decrease injury risk and the same with the other training sessions for atk/def
Never would i have thought watching data analysis would be so easy to follow whilst being so in depth and precise. Kudos to you. Do you do data analysis as a job?
@@ebfm jesus this man can do it all, absolute legend just binged like 8 more of your videos and have gained so much invaluble information. Many thanks from Scotland 🏴💙
Great videos by the way! I don't even play the game anymore and still, I watch this type of content! Would your staff quality also influence the efficiency of your training schedule? Thanks!
Hey mate, i've done a video on staff quality before (ruclips.net/video/RwTSamdwi_E/видео.html) and found that staff quality DOES influence player growth.
@@ebfm Thanks, went to check it already! Sure makes beginning to play way better and less confuse! Are you planning to do a testing where you apply all of this? Because at the end, I was very curious to find out how much of a difference does it make to have everything together.
I used your research as the foundation for my own training. I have found that your schedule, while good for growth, is simply too intensive for me to sustain across an entire season. Especially when in domestic cups, continental cups and the league. I usually do 2 MP, a Physical, 3 Defending and 2 Attacking and I use a couple of other sessions that aren't intensive like ground defence and match tactics just before the match to allow rapid condition increases. Seems to be working well so far.
Hey bud, good to hear you've been doing some testing yourself. Yes high injury risk is a common feedback I've been getting.. feel free to take out one or two sessions from my schedule depending on the intensity of your fixtures.
@@ebfm Thanks for the reply. Honestly it wasn't even the injury risk, I can handle injuries generally. It was more that the condition of my players was in the 80s before pretty much every game so they just couldn't keep their levels up. still experimenting with my training though, it is hard to find the balance!
I tried this and results are mixed. Some of my players did improve but some of my players just lost CA didn't improve at all. I think this isn't finished yet, more experiments needed.
Hi Max, thanks for the great work! I have a question regards individual training: do the role I train a player affect the growth rate of his attributes? I mean, if I train a striker as Complete Forward, does it mean that all the highlighted attributes will grow but the experience point (or something like that) is evenly distributed in those areas, that eventually causes a slower growth on the numbers? If I only train the player as Poacher or False nine, would the highlighted attributes grow faster since there're fewer aspects for the player to work on? Thanks a lot!
1) Very surprising to see EBTS23 do better ►technical training◄ than EBTS23 - Phy + MT. shown at 9:00 Any idea how this can come around? 2) Jayhuahua did an experiment with only Rest sessions -which resulted in massive physics improvement (possibly due to lack of CA improvement in technical & mental attributes, the game overcompensate big time in the physics) -This actually means that the effects of rest it self is worth looking into, as it indeed influence the outcome, especially on the physics. -and I would argue this can be seen from today's test results shown at 2:30 3) -And therefore It might be a tiny flaw in your data output shown at 2:30 to not test and show the effects of zero programs as well. As to fully know the effect of the first program, we need to know the effects of zero programs. These results might be decisive for my own tweaking's :D Thank you so much once again! :) was it Melbourne? I was happy to see you making an Anti-fatigue approach as my self ♥ I set my harder schedules after light schedules, but then I have my rest schedules placed after hard schedules. Not yet tested, but it looks promising :)
Hey mate, 1. I know it's counter-intuitive. EBTS23 - Phy + MT should have resulted in less Physical growth and more Technical / Mental growth, but that did not happen, so I have to go with the test result. 2. Yes, all Rest results in the fall of Technical / Mental and the growth of Phy sessions, which is very similar (maybe even identical) to only doing Physical training. It appears that the effects of training in FM23 is not strictly mathematical. Sometimes 1 + 1 is not 2.. That's why inspecting the training sessions individually has a limit. You have to form a full training schedule & test their actual effects. 3. Yes I should probably have included the 'zero program' to act as a reference point. I didn't think of it 😅 Grew up in Melbourne, Australia mate!
hey mate, in FM23 Ground Defence is the best session for promoting the growth of GK attributes. Refer to the Part 7 video where I tested the effects of every single training session in FM23. (ruclips.net/video/cRng3wiZ4UE/видео.html)
I Cant explain in proper english languague how much i Appreciate your work. Am new to this game & want to know the best or at least better than defualt way on this game but so much struggle to do with no information and result bc what i just find on yt fb website etc is only information or only result on one do both😢😢😢 but YOU come out of nowhere and answer everything i want to know with just show me how the result is when you do things. Just pure gem for me. And last i want to ask you about i got so much injury on my benfica with your training scedule can i adjust something to make it effective but lower the risk of injury? Maybe -1 physical or something and sorry for my broken eng😅😅😅
Hey mate, Other people have also complained of high injury risk when they used my training schedule. Feel free to subtract 1 Physical session, or lower the training intensity. Your English is fine mate. Cheers!
@@ebfm thank for reply my friend. I already adjust the trainning intensity in rest section [make half heart half intensity] but i cant put additional focus training on player bc it tell me they on heavey intensity Is that matter or just leave it be? Sry for time I reply am in thailand.
@@thanaphatusjonousmaxima4273 I've explored Additional Focus in the Part 5 video. Additional Focus can provide some additional growth for your players. But it will most likely raise the injury risk. So be careful with it! Only use it if you think it's absolutely necessary.
Cheers for this video series and for making the data accessible, it's been invaluable. I've been going through the spreadsheets myself to work out the best schedules for each of the Attacking, Defending and GK units to minimise wasted CA growth (e.g. finishing on CBs). One schedule that I've routinely used in game is Possession, but I've noticed from the data that if used in isolation (similarly to Physical) this has a negative effect on Finishing and Crossing. I'm wondering if this merits any further investigation, as the schedule otherwise looks very powerful. Perhaps if combined with Attacking or another Attacking training this would cancel out the regression? Secondly, have you taken a look at Set Pieces development? I've struggled to determine if you're better off setting the takers to train on Delivery every week, or mix it up with Attacking Corners, Attacking Free Kicks etc?
Hey bud, great to hear you've been doing some experimenting yourself. Making a training schedule that is more 'bespoke' for different playing positions in order to minimise 'CA waste' would be great, but I don't know if it's achievable in the game. The impression I get from my experiments is that combining the different types of training sessions in FM isn't simple addition / subtractions. eg. you suggest combining Possession + Attacking to 'cancel out' the loss of FIN/CRO from Possession. I don't think it works that strictly in practice. When you combine Possession + Attacking, it's more like the negative effects on FIN/CRO will not take effect, and FIN/CRO will grow according to the effects of Attacking. eg. supposing Pos: -1 on FIN/CRO Att: +1 on FIN/CRO Pos + Att: not -1 + 1 = 0 but 0 + 1 = 1. It's an area that absolutely merits further investigation. But I do feel that I need to move onto other aspects of the game, so I don't think I'll be spending more time on training so soon. Set piece is also a mysterious field. There are some training sessions that (in isolation) boost the set piece attributes, but when I formulate a training schedule, set piece growth does not take place at all.. I have a feeling that set piece growth is more due to actual experience on the pitch rather than from training. This of course requires testing for proof.
Hey bud, sorry for the late reply. Sorry mate no plans to release an updated version for FM24. This is because I cannot assume that the test results from FM23 are also valid in FM24, and I do not want to release a training schedule without having evidence that it is equally effective in FM24.
Top man! Two quick questions: 1) Is it better for fatigue and injury risk to include recovery sessions instead of "rest" slots? 2) What is the difference in keeping Weds and Sats empty (autofill when you have a match) VS actually slotting in a matchday slots in weds and sats? I partially know the answer to this since matchday slots add a match preview in the last slot of the day before a match and an automatic recovery the next day in the top slot.. but I'd like your insight on this :)
Hey mate, 1. In the Part 9 video I found that Recovery sessions are next to useless. Rest is better. 2. You've guessed it. To avoid the automatic insertion of Match Preview and Recovery sessions.
Please tell me if this is not corrent but in my experience when your players complain about the training it is usualy because you have a bad trainer assigned to that perticular training. Going to the "trainers" section in the training tab you can change the assignment of trainers and even ask your assistent coach to do it. Usualy swapping some trainers around fixes the complains for me. Cheers!
Hey mate, I haven't considered the possibility that complaints could be due to bad coach assignments, but it's an interesting suggestion. Will need to test it out in the future.
Came to this late but i think there's another experiment to be done. Control training vs EBTS vs EBTS modified to include some match prep schedules vs a schedule maxing out match prep. Test is player growth vs league position. What is the trade-off in maximising player growth to try and achieve better results?
Hi Max! Loving your videos, thank you for all this work. Do you have any advice for adjusting this training schedule for semi-professional teams that only have 4 to 6 training slots?
hey bud, I've touched on the quality of the coaching staff / individual training / training intensity in my previous videos. Check out the earlier parts of this FM23 Training Analysis series.
Keen to give this a go! Quick question and apologies if ive missed it somewhere along the line, but what do you have set as the individual intensity based on condition? Eg double intensity, no pitch gym work etc
So we could fill an empty space with a single match tactic to take advantage of this training, since it's only when there's more than one that it's no longer interesting.
hey bud sorry for the late. I can't say for sure whether the results are applicable in FM24. But.. considering that FM24 didn't change much from FM23, I'd say the results are applicable.
Perhaps I missed it in one of the series' videos, but did you find any correlation between training workload for coaches and training efficacy for players? Does the quality decrease if the workload is heavy and improve if light, or is that a meaningless bit of information?
As you know, pace and acceleration have a greater impact on the game than just CA figures. Would it be a good option to add a quickness session instead of just one existing training session?
Yes, very nice work. Great job, man. BUT, you had a ton of work linking the training schedule with player growth. That's ok and very useful. Should you do the same with the match performance? I tried using your base schedule, and it's fine, but i think it had a negative impact on the match performance. Could't know without new studies ou yours. 😅
Hey bud, sorry for the late. The negative impact on match performance could be due to the high physical demand of the training schedule. Feel free to take out 1-2 sessions/week to achieve the optimum balance between growth & match performance.
I love the effort that went into this! I do have a couple of questions. What training intensity settings did you use for the tests? I usually have double intensity for full and almost full fitness. I am wondering what setting I should use. Second question, why are you so awesome?
Hey bud, 1. For all my tests, Training Intensity was left at its default values (None-Half-Normal-Normal-Normal). In your actual saves, feel free to adjust the Training Intensity according to how tired your players are. 2. There's still a long way to go.
Hello, Great series you have here. One thing that is floating around the Webs is that assigning players position to train will lead to better growth. And i saw on time 14:32 of your video that all your players have assigned individual training Playing Position. maybe this would be worth an investigation ? :)
Hey bud, I didn't do any tests on individual training so can't say for sure. It's a frequently asked topic though, I am planning to tackle it (hopefully) soon.
Great stuff. I was wondering if you did any tests whether diminishing returns were session specific. For example if I had a training schedule containing only 4 Defending sessions, would the benefit of adding an Attacking session be closer to full benefit of a single Attacking session or would be it be closer to adding another Defending session. They do share attributes that are boosted by it, albeit at different priority %. Or maybe a better question would be using another more similar session like Defending Disengaged.
Hey mate, it's an intriguing question which I haven't tested. My guess is that the diminishing return phenomenon are 'attribute type specific' for the 4 types of attributes (mental / technical / physical / GK). eg. 4 Def + 1 Att would show a diminishing return that is similar to 5 Def, since the range of attributes boosted by the two sessions are almost identical. But with 4 Def + 1 Phy, there would not be minimal diminishing returns from the 1 Physical session. It's a guess though.
You don’t mention anything about doing Teamwork, Match Review and Team Bonding here. I’ve always been told and believed these are crucial for team cohesion and performance. Do you use any of these? If not, then why? Great work by the way, you’re the man
Hey bud, you can feel free to add some additional sessions into the schedule when you've got 0/1 matches/week. There are 2 gaps of knowledge though: 1. Do sessions like Community Outreach / Team Bonding actually raise the parameters related to Team Dynamics eg. Cohesion, Hierarchy, Social Groups etc.? 2. If those parameters are higher, does it actually lead to better team performance on the pitch? More research in this area will be needed before I can make conclusive recommendations.
@@ebfm Thanks for the swift reply and will do! I like to add Match Review after performing poorly. I do find it mitigates the same sort of tactical mistakes I first witnessed, of course I don't have the sort of in depth data you are speaking of lol.
Hi, I used your example to create a my own schedule with 4 Def, 4 Att, 2 Phy and 3 MP (for a 1 game week) would love to see you test this and what kind of results it brings
Hey bud, great to see you experimenting your own schedules. Sorry I'm not accepting test requests for custom training schedules for now, as I'm in the process of making my next video.
Can you explain why stacking preseason with heavy physical training doesn’t help player fatigue later on in the season? You mentioned that was a myth in one of your videos
Hey bud, there's no reason to believe that the pattern of player growth is any different in June (preseason) than in Feb (mid-season). It's not like the Physical attributes grow only during pre-season. So there is no reason to focus exclusively on the growth of Physical attributes during pre-season, as it will come at the expense of Technical / Mental attributes.
@@ebfm the reason that I’ve heard is the idea that heavy physical training early sort of builds up fitness. As if heavy physical training early will lead to less fatigue during the season. That’s what I’m wondering about, if that heavy training early leads to less injuries, better fitness, less fatigue during the rest of the season. I agree with you about the attribute growth 100%. Great vids btw, you put in loads of work and it’s very appreciated
@@jakesimpson5233 If you focused on Physical growth for 2 months, maybe Natural Fitness of players will go up by like 1? Which may make a marginal difference in the players' rate of fatigue during the season, yes. That's the only possible reasoning I can think of behind the claim that preseasons should be full of physical training sessions.
Given that every session has a diminishing return on the amount of C.A/Attribute gained, would it be better to have training schedule that has 1 of each but include more than 5 types?
Hey bud, The 5 types of training sessions were chosen to cover as many player attributes as possible. So if my tests are correct, then just using those 5 sessions should be sufficient.
@@ebfm Hey Mate, thanks for the response. I don't think I explained my self properly. As per your findings, a player gets almost 6 CA when having only one defense slot, only 8 CA when using two defense Slot. So the second slot is increasing the CA by only about 2. Is this penalty due to using the same training multiple times a week or is it just due to increase in total number of sessions. For example: Would having 1 slot of Attacking and 1 slot of Defense a week be more effective than 2 session of either?
@@arifadnan3224 Hey bud, I think the answer is the latter. The decreased 'efficiency' of training sessions is not due to using the same session multiple times, but more due to there being a 'cap' on the amount of growth in CA rating that can be attained per month. I believe that as you increase the number of training sessions/week, the amount of growth attained per month slows down, regardless of the type of training sessions that are used.
1. I have watched 10+ of your videos as a result of the zealand issue so an upside to be plagiarized. 2. Watching your videos I am reminded of jurassic park quote... Yeah, yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could that they didn't stop to think if they should. Optimum tactics and training begin to remove the point of playing. I can imagine developers will start to add patches which change the settings simple to counter youtubers who hack the game.
Hi thanx for the amazing work you have been doing. I was wondering how is team bonding and community outreach affect team cohesion? And how in turn team cohesion affects your players performance? Maybe you can investigate this.
Never saw you talking about the "rest" tab what is the optimal settings there? when players have the full green heart, should i go 2x than normal training?
Hey mate, this year I didn't go into too much details about the Rest tab. Since my training schedule already causes higher-than-normal injury risk, I suggest you leave it as its default settings. Double Intensity would raise the injury risk too much.
I have a question, does individual training have much effect on player injury/fatigue? Also does this have any benefits as opposed to strictly team training sessions?
Hey mate, I haven't tested whether individual training causes fatigue or raises injury risk, so can't say for sure. Individual training CAN provide additional growth. It was discussed in the Part 5 video (ruclips.net/video/m5WUIpCkDbU/видео.html).
Hey bud, I've touched on staff attributes briefly in the Part 3 video (ruclips.net/video/RwTSamdwi_E/видео.html). Higher staff attributes do lead to faster player growth. Didn't get a chance to delve any deeper though 😅
@@ebfm Idk you'd need to talk to someone who knows the ins and outs of fm23 skins. From what i have seen nobody has done it and I don't know if there is any way of directly viewing the 'centi attributes'. It might be inaccessible without very intrusive mods.
I’m not native speaker and probably I missed something. But, if I put recovery sessions at this training to reduce injuries, it’s a bad thing? I got 4 injuries a week in 2 moth. Thank you a lot!
Hey bud, I've covered this in my Part 9 video (ruclips.net/video/mGK2AkDxxMs/видео.html), but Recovery session is next to useless. No need to use them. Better just to give your players a rest.
Or they also did their own tests and came to the same conclusions... Almost like they're both playing FM23 and have done testing for years! Both channels make excellent content.
@@scottkid2204 He's been doing tests for years why all of a sudden would he cover every single thing EBFM. Its copied without a shadow of a doubt only question is if or not Zealand was aware which he probably isn't but still doesn't make it right
He uploaded a video today to explain what happened - essentially both channels use a 3rd party service to test and receive data and they both received the same results. They just happened to both upload the resulting video at similar times.
@@Aylott I watched and it cleared up a lot, glad he done that I said in previous comment i highly doubt Zealand was aware of EBFM’s. But how close the videos where to each other there was no way it was coincidental just glad we got all the information now
No match review, team bonding or community outreach? Maybe this is better if you ONLY care about CA, but team cohesion would take a massive hit with this schedule, surely?
Hey bud, yup I've said this in the video but my schedules are aimed ONLY at maximising growth. It does not take into account other factors eg. team cohesion.
certain of training schedules have features to increase cohesion beside of drills, dont waste session for team bonding or community session, pick a session or two at least that including cohesion and drills impacts then go rest all day after full intensity of training
Max, any thoughts on using recovery instead of rest? The difference in 'impacts' in-game seem to be beneficial? EDIT - found it in one of the other episodes, my bad!
hey bud, looks like you've already found it but this topic was discussed in the Part 9 training video. Recovery sessions were practically useless according to my tests, that's why I didn't include them in my schedule.
@@ebfm appreciate the quick reply, was very surprised to learn that! Love the videos mate, I’m bingeing them alongside my save. Thinking of changing to the wed day matchdays only, does that then proclude you from receiving the fees received for TV matches? Can make a big difference to small clubs like mine (Buxton)
Do I need to add EBTS for every week again and again, or can I specify somewhere that I want to use EBTS in each week (unless all players are on holiday)?
@@ebfm I understand that, But I meant, if there is an option that you can set it for all weeks at once, or do you have to manually add it yourself each week?
@@jorgenbrouwer6460 Well you can take out 1-2 sessions/week, save it as a separate training schedule, then load that schedule whenever you have a busy fixture.
@@ebfm I want to keep it exactly as it is 🙂 As you did a very good explanation why it works. It's just the if I want to use it for the whole year, I have to load it 52 times. Isn't there a button to load it for the whole year at once?
Great video as always, I don't know if this was explained already in the series but why would Ground defence be better than a 3rd Attacking training in your combinations the 3 Def + 3 Att was 0.19 ALL worse but that could be because of the removed Physical training to accommodate for the change, Unless I missed something about ground defence being the magic sauce, wouldn't a combo of 3 Def +3 Att +3 Phys +2 MP be the strongest? (I sense that its probably because of the GK's needing training and my version would not help my GK grow as much)
Great work, mate! One question, you mentioned that your weekly schedule is enough even for a only 1 match per week. Assuming your schedule is full committed to develop CA, wouldn't it be nice to give a go with some Recreation/Bonding time or Set-Pieces trainning on those free spots when available?
Hey bud, you can feel free to add some additional sessions into the schedule when you've got 0/1 matches/week. There are 2 gaps of knowledge though which make me hesitant to recommend them: 1. Do 'team bonding' sessions actually help the parameters related to Team Dynamics eg. Cohesion, Hierarchy, Social Groups etc.? 2. Does better Team Dynamics actually lead to better team performance on the pitch? More research in this area will be needed before I can make conclusive recommendations.
@@ebfm Thanks for the promptly reply and the amazing job in this series once again. Sadly, I do not posses the answers for these questions, I would assume so but I don't have the evidence to confirm that theory haha. In my experience and history with FM, just by having better players you are more prone for better results. You usually see people playing top teams with plug-in-play tactics and having no issue at all. Probably because having a team with better heading/jumping reach/strength is more effective in set-pieces rather than trainning a lot of it in the schedules. Keep the good working going, have a nice day!
@@FariasBk I also think FM is 70% about the quality of players 😅 There's so much a good tactic can do. But then football in real life is probably like that too, so I guess you can say it's realistic.
@@ebfm Hey, friend. Can I ask you some help? I was not able to found your options to REST - TRAINING INTENSITY SCHEDULE in your videos. I know I should use automatic, but in terms of intensity based on condition what should I use? For now I'm using No work / No work / Half / Normal / Double. Have a nice day!
@@FariasBk Hey mate, my tests were based on the default training intensity (None-Half-Normal-Normal-Normal). But feel free to adjust them as you wish. 0 match weeks - increase the intensity. 2 match weeks - lower the intensity. Simple!
hi, thanks for your videos got two questions btw I think in one of your videos you said that player growth is not depends on whether team is winning or losing (as far as I can remember) but when my B team in Spain promoted to Second Ligue and started to lose all the matches all the players constatly had very bad morale and also the training raiting was below 6.7 for most of the players ___ and the second question: for best progress player needs first team mathces, right? So if we take England U18 and U21 squads are not the options. But could my B team in Spain be considered as first team?
Hey mate, 1. I believe winning/losing itself does not affect growth, but Morale might. I haven't tested the effects of Morale on player growth. It is possible that a losing streak will lead to lower morale & affect growth. 2. It doesn't strictly have to be first team matches. The reputation of the match may be a factor in growth. So of course first team matches will boost growth more than U21/U18/B Team matches. But 1st team matches are the best since the reputation will be the highest with 1st team matches.
@@ebfm for the second: Let's say my B team plays in Spanish second division which rank is 36, and also there is Irish Premier division which rank is 61. What is better? Keep them on B team or send to Ireland?
Check the reputation of the competition (You'll need the in-game editor for this). Whatever division has the higher reputation will benefit your players more (if we accept the hypothesis that higher competition reputation leads to better player growth).@@tarasnykolyshyn3424
There seems to be issue with a decline in dribbling, especially when the players get older, or is that just me? I have continual problems try to stop its decline.
You had mentioned the player belief that training should be heavier in preseason was a myth and it makes me wonder if you have any evidence to contradict what we've always been told about how a heavier preseason training regime helps prepare your players better for a more intense season. Is that not the case?
Hey bud, mainly because the training sessions I used (Attacking / Defending / Match Practice) boost the growth of all categories of attributes (Mental + Technical + Physical), while the 'physical training sessions' are only effective against Physical attributes. Why settle for 1 when you can get 3?
I understand that EBTS schedule is to maximize player growth. What about team performance? Not training any tactics or set pieces or any other aspect of the game, won’t be bad for team performance? I mean, could you test the results of the team throughout the season? Anyway, great job!! I really love your videos!!
Im playing a real save with a team media prediction 15th using these schedules and halfway through season im in first place so that should answer your question.
No, some rando stating he's leading a league when that depends on a ton of other factors (you can win the Premiership with a 100 CA average team just by using an OP tactic from Arena) does not answer your question. However, past tests done here on match practice/set pieces etc routines seemed to show they didn't influence the results enough to be statistically relevant. Tactics familiarity, morale, team cohesion etc overall values do (as tested on FMArena for instance), but those are also values that tend to develop in time anyway. If you don't do a complete revolution in your roster each summer, the beginning of your first season with a club might be the only time you should worry about it (and still it could very well be not worth the bother if you do everything else right). I do find that some match preview/review and team cohesion sessions added on top can't hurt (especially because of how the day after the match rest settings work), but it doesn't make that big of a difference. Tl;dr: training has a surprisingly low effect on actual match performance, outside the obvious "indirect" higher CA = better results.
@@kadatherion_ so basically you said the same thing as me. I ran my own tests using Max's test database comparing his training to other popular training schedules out there and they made no difference at all in team results vs team using Max's training.
@@mantorras7752 I gave an answer based on specifics and references, and with the reasons why things are in a certain way, instead of a "I believe so for unrelated reasons, just trust my guts". If you actually had made objective tests and statistical relevant comparisons you should have just mentioned that instead of basically replying with the equivalent of magical thinking alone. What you are saying *NOW* is a valid answer to the OP, the previous reply wasn't.
Hey mate, I did not test the effects of EBTS on team performance. I've mentioned this in the Part 10 video, but the main purpose of these videos is to uncover the FM game mechanics related to training . The training schedule is almost a by-product of it. It is certainly possible that there are other training schedules out there that can boost the win rate of your team better than my EBTS. The EBTS is focused solely on player growth.
Im really struggling with player fitness using the training schedule, its fine for 1 game a week but when there is 2 nobody in the starting 11 will have full fitness. Have you any ideas how to combat this?
Hey bud, 2 matches/week will be tough for any player to recover from. Possibly take out 1 or 2 training sessions from my schedule if your players are struggling. Or turn down the training intensity to half.
@@PasOdMater I don't think I ever recommended staying on a certain training intensity. The default training intensity (None-Half-Normal-Normal-Normal) should be fine in most cases. Consider lowering it when your fixtures get hectic.
@@ebfm I see, would have bet that there was one video where you set it but can't remember where it was. Did you do any testing on this? Seems like an important piece of the formula.
Hey bud, these tests were based on FM23 so can't say for sure whether they work on FM24. But since not much as changed between FM23&24, I'd say 95% of the findings from FM23 are applicable on FM24.
What if you trade 2 Physical for 2 Overall, won't it boost your results? Since a training session lose its maximum value after the first training, wouldn't be beneficial to also trade one attacking for another one with similar CA/attribute growth potential like Chance Creation?
Hey mate, it's a keen suggestion. Trading 1 or 2 Physical sessions with Overall or other types of sessions may return a performance superior to my training schedule. But I couldn't possibly test every single possible combination so I had to stop somewhere 😅
@ebfm fair enough, are you detailing somewhere how you test it and may I ask if you could tell me how much time it would take roughly? Here or in PM eventually.
@@baiisun Well, I always write a summary of my testing methods in my videos, for example 1:27 in this video. Testing 1 type of training schedule using my Test League setup typically takes about 1-2hrs, depending on how much sample size I'm after. + data analysis + create graphs for presentation.
@@ebfm Great thanks. So I guess you need the editor to set up all those parameters? Or can you share a save file of your setup? I wouldn't mind trying a few things and maybe help you gathering you some extra data if you're keen but I guess I'll need the editor to see the percentile at least?
@@baiisun This is the savefile that I used: www.dropbox.com/s/x9g8w2b22ozsbjy/23TL.2%2020yrs%20no%20training%2Bmatch.fm?dl=0 Link was included in the Part 7 video (ruclips.net/video/cRng3wiZ4UE/видео.html). When you load the savefile there'll be 2 error messages that pop up, just click OK to load. This is due to a glitch in the FM23 editor prior to the v23.4 patch. Feel free to play around with it. And yes you will need the in-game editor to run some of these tests.
Zealand just uploaded a video explaining what happened regarding both of you using the same data. Basically FM Korea gave you both the same data because they don't run tests for every request but instead basically run the test once and then give the data to whoever requests it.
Hey bud, I've already commented on Zealand's video, but I didn't receive anything from this FM Korea website. Will be clarifying things further with Zealand.
Would "Recovery" sessions help with fatigue in your training schedules, for example after Matches or even after Training matches? Thank you Great work by the way 👍
Ground Defence is the training session that boosts the growth of GKs. Refer to Part 7/8 video where I explain the rationale for using Ground Defence sessions.
Dear viewers / subscribers,
I did not receive these test results from any 3rd party.
The excel tables, graphs, editor data, savefiles, photoshopped images, countless number of trials etc. used in my videos are all my original work. I didn't receive them from anyone.
More on this in my next video.
Interesting, this means either FM Korea or Zealand are lying, or this is a veeeerryy big mix up
Whats your comment on FM Korea specifying your name( as user of their services) in one of their e-mail responses to Zeeland in his most recent video ?
So you are the data base that FM Korea is using? Or Zealand really is being led astray by 'Steve' / covering it up
@@kresimirdz97 Like I said, I didn't communicate with anyone from FM Korea and didn't receive any resources from anyone.
@@ebfm Thank you for the response. I always used your training schedules and resources from your videos as I always viewed you as the most reliable. Keep up the good work!
This is world class work. You have earned your PhD in FM, sir.
we love you
your channel might not have 1 million subscribers, but do know that everybody watching truly loves you
Been using your EBTS training for lower english league with only 4 sessions per week. Nobody complain and they all achieved above 7 rating in training. Thank you for this. ☺️
I found your channel today and binge watched all 11 episodes. This series has been very interesting and informative, I've learned a lot about aspects of the game I had been ignoring for a while or just didn't understand. I'll definitely try out a new save soon and apply everything you've shown us! Great work Max, looking forward to your next video
Best FM content as always. Your work is amazing.
Thanks. I tend to ignore training complaints if they're about general team training, but listen to them if I've set individual training. The training rating seems to go up a lot when I do that. I'd have thought growth must be a lot better if players are happy and training well, though admittedly I've not tested it quite as thoroughly as you would!
The EBTS works amazing for youth- and B-teams. I'm 7 seasons into my Mallorca save and there are 5 of my own youth players in the squad, 2 are even starters with 160+ CA. Very good development!
This series was so good Max. Have you considered a series on Mentoring? I think your in depth analysis would lend itself well to this. Like what is optimum mentoring group size, does position matter for mentor/mentee, can younger players mentor older players, whats the best age for a mentor? so many variables. I've been kicking some ideas around myself to do this but i don't have the graph skills 😂
Hey bud, mentoring is a topic that's requested all the time 😅 but haven't had the chance yet to tackle it. After the current Youth Intake series possibly I could look into it. Why don't you give it a go?
Trust me before I started all this I had no idea how to use Excel or make graphs. But where there's a will there's a way, you learn over time.
>wake up
>evidence based football manager analysis video
hap :)
Thanks for answering my question re Tuesday & Saturday games 👍🏻
Happiness affects player development, praising players training every week (above 7.50) will boost a lot their development
About players complaining: that usually comes with the 3 physicals per week (2 is fine in most cases, unless player personality is somewhat bad). And in my experience it does affect training results, pretty seriously too. Morale and satisfaction plays a fairly big part in training rating, and that unhappiness will lower the player's training rating. Even when otherwise in ideal condition (team performing well, everyone happy, etc) a player would get 9/10 if content with the training regimen, when unhappy with the regimen he could easily go less than 8, which is still good, but usually already differs a lot in actual CA/attribute growth. Some more unhappiness from other sources (IE: a few bad match results lately) and the unhappiness effect compounds quickly.
Now, your data shows that 3 phys weeks are still better *on the whole*, meaning that even if a couple players get detrimental effects, the full team will average an advantage, so that's settled and not really in question. In a real game, however, it depends. First and foremost one could have more bad personalities in his team than in your test environment, which could shift that average by a lot. Even more than that, though, it's when the unhappy - and possibly stunted - one is your star youngster. You may totally ignore unhappiness from a 24 yo that's 130/140 CA/PA, but the last one you want to see having complaints is your 18yo 110/180 CA/PA that you are beginning to give match exposure to slowly reach his potential. You can't afford HIM getting less than ideal development. In many cases that alone could justify switching to a 2 phys sessions week.
Which is indeed what I do: only 2 phys (or even only 1 in the busiest weeks) and I put in some match tactics, preview/review*, team cohesion or rehab instead, depending on what I need most that week. No one is ever unhappy (in a team with fairly professional players at least) and I get at least 8-9 average training ratings with hardly ever anyone performing badly (except the very old players that are declining, and thus are usually rated below 7). I feel that's a better balance outside of a test environment.
*Match review has an advantage: everyone does it, even when tired and would otherwise skip other sessions if so instructed in the training rest settings. This compounds to some additional growth that other sessions placed the day after a match would not get as half your team would actually NOT do them as they are too tired from the match they just played.
Hey bud, you're right, I'm relying on average values from a large sample pool so it's possible that there are few unhappy players that are bringing the average values down. I do need to rely on average values though because just looking at a few players would not be very scientific.
It's interesting that 2 Physical sessions cause less complaints from players. The question though is whether a high training rating / high morale actually translate into greater growth. It is something I need to test before I can say for sure.
@@ebfm I'm not exactly sure of the order of factors in the calculation , but I've consistently noticed that lower training ratings have an evident correlation with lower average CA increase of the player. Those that score 10 or close to that are also those that (if young enough and with enough growth margin available, even when very young the growth slows dramatically once there's only 10 points between CA and PA) more consistently (even given the rng factor of each "roll") gain 2-3 CA per month. When they have been getting a lower rating the same players that month tend to show/have shown a much lower growth (if at all).
Considering that the training rating constantly updates while CA/attribute increases are calculated only once per month, I'd guess the rating comes first and is one of the values the game takes in consideration for the CA gain "dice roll". However sometimes you also see one of those weird months where a fast growing player has a hiccup and several attributes actually decline a little (sometimes in favour of just one or two probably heavier weighting ones) and the training rating appears to go down *after* that. This is also what seems like to happen with older players: even when model professionals who you know are training well, their attributes decline due to aging, and the lower training rating they usually get seems to reflect that. So it's a bit hard to tell for sure which comes first (actually I'd guess there's some other hidden value in the background both functions pull from, some value that reflects how much positive training "points" a player has been accumulating). But the correlation is definitely there.
As for complaints about physical, indeed those about "too much training in pace/strength" et similia are caused by too many physical sessions in a week. When you follow the old idea that you have to go heavy on phys in the preseason, you get a lot of complaints that month, for instance (and usually also lower training ratings across the board). In my experience 3 are almost always too much and enough to displease 4-5 players, 2 are much safer. When you have a top team or have built your all model citizen squad it matters little (especially if they have high morale due to club performances and/or they like you personally and are thus less prone to complain), but in the beginnings with certain clubs it can be bothersome.
@@kadatherion_ I definitely notice that players with high training ratings grow faster. Whenever I sign wonderkids eg. Endrick, they always get near perfect training ratings every month and they grow at super speed. But I just can't confirm it without doing a test.
I did a test with EBTS23 minus 1 Physical session (7:01, 4th from the bottom) and it resulted in less growth compared to the EBTS23, that's why I went with 3 Phy sessions/week. But if you feel 2 Physical sessions are better than 3, go right ahead, you are free to make your own adjustments.
@@ebfm absolutely. As I mentioned, your averages speak for themselves, although it could be argued the test environment might skew some things a bit (I don't remember right now if you freeze morale in the tests... You do remove injuries but the actual condition isn't frozen iirc).
It could actually be interesting to see some numbers - as some other people have suggested - with individual positional training set up: that SHOULD make all those sessions with "20% individual role" training be more effective; or, at least, that's what we've believed for a while, some statistical analysis would be very welcome.
That, coupled with training rest settings (like double intensity when at full condition) and the placement after match day of sessions that do NOT get skipped when tired (like the aforementioned match review), might lead to an even more perfected schedule. It's pretty much what I try to do tweaking your base schedule sacrificing a few slots, but some of the results I believe I notice might very well be placebo.
Thoughts for some other tests for training.
Effect of Team Bonding and Community Outreach on player happiness
Effect of Training on Match Performance
Examples:
Effect of Chance Creation on match performance (overall XG)
Effect of Chance Conversion on match performance (goals/XG)
Effect of Attacking Corners on the number of Corners Scored
Effect of Aerial Defense on the number of headers won
Etc
Cheers mate, will note them down on my to-do list.
@@ebfm oh yes please especially so we see if matchreview+teambonding makes team cohesion go up
One feedback: You had said that the only minus with the schedule was gk not improving so i added one goalkeeping session per week and my gk developed fairly well.
Hey mate thanks for testing that out!
Honestly this video made me realise something about the previous videos.
The reason why Match Practice was chosen as the best session was because it was the most efficient per slot. To calculate how efficient a training session's slot is you took the attribute gain from all week of that type of training session, and divided it by the times it was used in a week. So the attribute gain of Defending was divided by 7, attribute gain of Match Practice was divided by 2, attribute gain of Match Tactics was divided by 3 etc.
However, since the growth from sessions is not linear (7 sessions per week do not give 7 times more growth compared to just one session), that metric is invalid. Since the "optimal" growth is at about 3-4 sessions per week and any more do not give much growth, those sessions that you can use 7 of in a week are inherently at a disadvantage. For example, 4 defending sessions give about the same gain as 7 defending sessions (11.7 CA vs 12.7 CA in this video). Using the numbers from this video, 11.7/4 is 2.925 CA per session, 12.7/7 is 1.814 CA per session. The same session got two drastically different scores, despite the fact we only changed one variable (whether we use it 4 or 7 times in a week)
I believe the reason why Match Tactics scored so much in that metric (and why it ultimately didn't succeed in the final schedule), is that it's just limited to 3 sessions per week. As I said earlier, sessions that can be used 7 times per week are at a disadvantage. This overestimates the sessions such as Match Practice and Match Tactics a bit. I believe that if all sessions were used just 3 times per week in the initial experiment, Match Tactics would just be yet another random training session that isn't really exceptional.
I personally don't think that this little thing changes much, as a large majority of the sessions can be used 7 times per week. Match Practice is the best even at just 2 sessions per week, Match Tactics was looked at and failed, other match preparation training sessions were bad even with the advantages they were given. However, I believe this is something to be taken into consideration in the future experiments.
Hey bud, very keen observations you make. I admit I still do not have the full answers. How many Def/Att sessions/week are optimal? The various kinds of tests led to conflicting conclusions and in the end I did have to rely on an element of hit-and-miss (7:02) to manually find the best schedule.
After all this time, there are still many unanswered questions.
Absolutely brilliant! Love your content. Thank you :)
Hi Max,
This was a great series, I enjoyed watching it and it was very informative. As a long time player and fan of the series I have three suggestions for you to test, if you would.
First is about pre-season physical training. I too used to think it was a myth, until I tried it 2-3 installments ago. When the coaches and players give feedback on the training screen, I remember seeing a message about they were more fit or something thanks to the pre-season training intensity. So the game somehow acknowledges this. And this is purely anecdotal and not statistically relevant, but since I started doing more physical training in the pre-season I noticed that there were fewer injuries and the overall conditions of the players were better. Maybe you could test if this is really the case?
Second is about training sessions with bonuses. With every installment of the game I pick a team that is expected to finish between 20-24th in Sky Bet League Two. And since FM19, I consistently got back to back promotions to Championship. After that it takes 2-3 seasons to get to Premier League. And generally, it takes more for people to get to PL. What I do different is that I focus on training sessions that give bonuses and make sure I have them every week; set pieces, defensive shape, attacking movement and teamwork. Of course there is the human factor in play with tactics, transfers etc. But I do believe these training sessions and their bonuses help me to consistently outperform the expectations. Admittedly, this probably results in less development for the players but that is never the goal until I reach PL. Maybe you could test the effectiveness of these sessions?
Lastly, what do you think about testing more specific training sessions? The approach you have is to use holistic sessions and maximize CA. But the sessions being holistic could result in attacking players developing defensive attributes, and defensive players developing attacking attributes. For example 1 CA point for a striker could mean 1 in positioning, 1 in tackling and 1 in concentration. But 2 CA points could mean 1 in finishing, since more relevant attributes for the position take more CA. But I would take the finishing any day even though it consumes more CA. A more specific training session towards this could result in less CA gains, but more attribute gains in the relevant attributes. I know this is harder to test than the first two but it is also a more interesting case.
Thank you for your work. It is very detailed and statistically sound. Hope you continue creating great content :)
Hey mate, all keen observations & questions!
1. There is no evidence to suggest that players respond to training differently at different stages during a season. Yes I've also noticed that the game hints and nudges you to do more 'physical training' during pre-season. My best guess: during pre-season the match load is low (1-2 friendlies/week at most), and assuming that 'physical training sessions' eg. Physical, Endurance, Resistance cause higher amounts of fatigue compared to the other training sessions, it makes sense that these training sessions are held during pre-season when the players are less tired. But this is assuming that the 'physical training sessions' cause more fatigue compared to the 'non-physical' training sessions.
Or I could be wrong - the Physical Attributes of players may indeed be hardcoded to grow faster during pre-season. It's something that can be tested in the future, perhaps when FM24 comes out.
2. I haven't tested the relationship between Bonuses & team performance so can't say for sure. My guess is that high bonus leads to a boost in player morale which may improve player performance on the pitch. But for this to be true, I will first need to prove that high player Morale leads to better performance on the pitch.
3. This is another FAQ. I did indeed take a holistic approach rather than aiming for specialised growth. I do not believe that specialised growth that considers playing position is possible. It appears that as long as adequate training & match exposure is provided, players will automatically distribute their attributes depending on their playing position.
If you take a look at the excel files I uploaded with the Part 7 video (www.dropbox.com/s/bm9wtlofuwlhf5m/Training%207%20for%20Dropbox.xlsx?dl=0), I've broken down player growth into the different playing positions (ST/AM/DM/DL/DC/GK). You'll be able to see that even when 1 type of training session was used throughout the entire season, players still knew how to grow according to their playing positions.
Besides, even if the construction of specialised training schedules was possible, the fact that you can only use 1 training schedule at a time for the senior squad forces one to look for a holistic schedule that caters for all players in the squad. If you could somehow build a schedule that was great for defenders (effective at growing TAC / MAR / POS), would you use it, when you know it would be detrimental to other players in the squad? Unless you wanted your strikers to become great tacklers and markers!
@@ebfm Thanks for the detailed response. Just for the third response, think of it like how ground defense improved your GKs. Hypothetically, maybe some GK training also develops your strikers similar to it and you can use it conjuction with other similar trainings, which could possibly result in less CA gain but more relevant attribute gains? It's a long shot but a case I wondered about. But anyway, that should be in your files and I might try it out myself after checking them.
Again, thanks for the great content. Looking forward for more :)
Absolutely Brilliant! Thank you, thank you.
This is groundbreaking holy shit.... wow.
Damn, I would've loved to actually know if the more-than-two-Match Practices glitch was actually more effective than the base 2 limit
Hey Max, thanks for your great work.
A have some suggestions to make:
1. About the match practise session and since its the only session that boosts the "individual roles" attributes, i think a good idea would be to run some tests having players to train on individual roles (on their natural position ofcourse) and see if match practise session is even more powerfull in boosting attributes/CA if individual roles are selected on each player.
2. Maybe you can experiment a bit with training weeks WITHOUT any Physical schedules at all (none of them: Physical/Resistance/Quickness etc.). And the reason i am saying this is that Physical training schedules stop the growth or even worse, decrease other attributes (apart the physical ones) and from my experience i see that players increase attributes and reach their PA faster without any physical training at all. I know that physical attributes are the most powerfull in the game, especially pace and acceleration, but you can compensate this by making any player in your team train quickness on additional focus. In addition, according to your experiments, match practise, ground defence and even match tactics boost the physical attributes by some good amount so replacing physical training schedules with some more match tactics and/or ground defence might be better for players' growth. Lastly, i've experienced A LOT less injuries in my saves without any physical schedules at all.
Just some suggestions for further experiments.
Thanks a lot again for your great work. Keep it up!
Hey bud, they are both great suggestions. Admittedly I didn't explore individual roles / individual training in too much depth this year. I do feel I need to move onto other aspects of the game though, there are tons of requests that I've been putting off for ages 😅 Maybe next year with FM24 I'll get a chance to explore training in more depth, as you suggest.
@@ebfm You should find someone to help you out with data gathering! I'm sure you'll find people willing to help you out
@@afasia2341 I'm sure I'd get heaps of help. But I use a macro program for my tests so the amount of work is usually manageable.
Great Video as always! It would be interesting, if there is a difference in the team performance between your training schedule and a standard schedule. The match preparation training isn't that effective for player growth, but maybe it can boost the the performance and therefore you win more games. Would be nice if you could check that out!
Great work there, thanks for the time spending to provide us with all these.
I wanted to give you an idea for something to add in your tests. Let's say for example we have assign a specific role to train for each one player. Would it be possible to check the results ONLY for the attributes needed for each player separating the attack from the defensive units and get rid of the rest? I saw the spreadsheets and i know you have kind of something like that, but would it be possible to be more accurate on the attributes that WE want on the roles that WE want for each player? For example my strikers tend to increase their marking and their throw ins and never their finishing hehe.
You are top btw, keep up the good work and thanks again for providing us. 🙏🤛👍
Hey bud, I considered doing that in my excel tables, but every single role in FM has a different range of 'recommended attributes'. eg. the attributes needed for Pressing Forward Att are different from Pressing Forward Def..
So I'm not sure how I can highlight the 'recommended attributes' in my excel tables.
handling training is the best training period! just do that 5 times its best!
Really enjoyed and learned a lot from your training series. Would love to see you go back into tactics a bit. Have you thought of doing a possession series? to see how you can manipulate tactics to dominate possession (or 1,000+ passes)?
Hey mate, there are still couple more unturned stones related to training that I wish to investigate, then I might move onto other aspects of the game.
also could be worth testing 1 phys on double training vs 2 phys on normal if they are comparable you could have 2 phys training sessions and an extra rest session to decrease injury risk and the same with the other training sessions for atk/def
Never would i have thought watching data analysis would be so easy to follow whilst being so in depth and precise. Kudos to you. Do you do data analysis as a job?
Nah man, I come from a completely different background (healthcare). But where there's a will there's a way!
@@ebfm jesus this man can do it all, absolute legend just binged like 8 more of your videos and have gained so much invaluble information. Many thanks from Scotland 🏴💙
@@ebfm should contact SI to test their games to see if it works how they intend haha. Youd probably save the franchise and make some cash 🤣
Great videos by the way! I don't even play the game anymore and still, I watch this type of content! Would your staff quality also influence the efficiency of your training schedule? Thanks!
Hey mate, i've done a video on staff quality before (ruclips.net/video/RwTSamdwi_E/видео.html) and found that staff quality DOES influence player growth.
@@ebfm Thanks, went to check it already! Sure makes beginning to play way better and less confuse! Are you planning to do a testing where you apply all of this? Because at the end, I was very curious to find out how much of a difference does it make to have everything together.
I used your research as the foundation for my own training. I have found that your schedule, while good for growth, is simply too intensive for me to sustain across an entire season. Especially when in domestic cups, continental cups and the league.
I usually do 2 MP, a Physical, 3 Defending and 2 Attacking and I use a couple of other sessions that aren't intensive like ground defence and match tactics just before the match to allow rapid condition increases. Seems to be working well so far.
Hey bud, good to hear you've been doing some testing yourself. Yes high injury risk is a common feedback I've been getting.. feel free to take out one or two sessions from my schedule depending on the intensity of your fixtures.
@@ebfm Thanks for the reply. Honestly it wasn't even the injury risk, I can handle injuries generally. It was more that the condition of my players was in the 80s before pretty much every game so they just couldn't keep their levels up.
still experimenting with my training though, it is hard to find the balance!
I tried this and results are mixed. Some of my players did improve but some of my players just lost CA didn't improve at all. I think this isn't finished yet, more experiments needed.
Hi Max, thanks for the great work! I have a question regards individual training: do the role I train a player affect the growth rate of his attributes? I mean, if I train a striker as Complete Forward, does it mean that all the highlighted attributes will grow but the experience point (or something like that) is evenly distributed in those areas, that eventually causes a slower growth on the numbers? If I only train the player as Poacher or False nine, would the highlighted attributes grow faster since there're fewer aspects for the player to work on? Thanks a lot!
Hey mate, this is something people ask me all the time but I haven't tested yet 😅 It is on my list of things to test. Stay tuned!
1) Very surprising to see EBTS23 do better ►technical training◄ than EBTS23 - Phy + MT. shown at 9:00 Any idea how this can come around?
2) Jayhuahua did an experiment with only Rest sessions -which resulted in massive physics improvement (possibly due to lack of CA improvement in technical & mental attributes, the game overcompensate big time in the physics) -This actually means that the effects of rest it self is worth looking into, as it indeed influence the outcome, especially on the physics. -and I would argue this can be seen from today's test results shown at 2:30
3) -And therefore It might be a tiny flaw in your data output shown at 2:30 to not test and show the effects of zero programs as well. As to fully know the effect of the first program, we need to know the effects of zero programs. These results might be decisive for my own tweaking's :D
Thank you so much once again! :) was it Melbourne?
I was happy to see you making an Anti-fatigue approach as my self ♥
I set my harder schedules after light schedules, but then I have my rest schedules placed after hard schedules. Not yet tested, but it looks promising :)
Hey mate,
1. I know it's counter-intuitive. EBTS23 - Phy + MT should have resulted in less Physical growth and more Technical / Mental growth, but that did not happen, so I have to go with the test result.
2. Yes, all Rest results in the fall of Technical / Mental and the growth of Phy sessions, which is very similar (maybe even identical) to only doing Physical training.
It appears that the effects of training in FM23 is not strictly mathematical. Sometimes 1 + 1 is not 2.. That's why inspecting the training sessions individually has a limit. You have to form a full training schedule & test their actual effects.
3. Yes I should probably have included the 'zero program' to act as a reference point. I didn't think of it 😅
Grew up in Melbourne, Australia mate!
I'd love to see a comparison of the best Goalkeeping training sessions to drop in to weeks with only a single match played.
You can find that answer looking at previous videos in the series.
hey mate, in FM23 Ground Defence is the best session for promoting the growth of GK attributes. Refer to the Part 7 video where I tested the effects of every single training session in FM23. (ruclips.net/video/cRng3wiZ4UE/видео.html)
I Cant explain in proper english languague how much i Appreciate your work. Am new to this game & want to know the best or at least better than defualt way on this game but so much struggle to do with no information and result bc what i just find on yt fb website etc is only information or only result on one do both😢😢😢 but YOU come out of nowhere and answer everything i want to know with just show me how the result is when you do things. Just pure gem for me.
And last i want to ask you about i got so much injury on my benfica with your training scedule can i adjust something to make it effective but lower the risk of injury? Maybe -1 physical or something and sorry for my broken eng😅😅😅
Hey mate,
Other people have also complained of high injury risk when they used my training schedule.
Feel free to subtract 1 Physical session, or lower the training intensity.
Your English is fine mate. Cheers!
@@ebfm thank for reply my friend. I already adjust the trainning intensity in rest section [make half heart half intensity] but i cant put additional focus training on player bc it tell me they on heavey intensity Is that matter or just leave it be? Sry for time I reply am in thailand.
@@thanaphatusjonousmaxima4273 I've explored Additional Focus in the Part 5 video. Additional Focus can provide some additional growth for your players. But it will most likely raise the injury risk. So be careful with it! Only use it if you think it's absolutely necessary.
My finding is - Don't use get stuck in. They kick the crap out of each other in training...
Cheers for this video series and for making the data accessible, it's been invaluable. I've been going through the spreadsheets myself to work out the best schedules for each of the Attacking, Defending and GK units to minimise wasted CA growth (e.g. finishing on CBs). One schedule that I've routinely used in game is Possession, but I've noticed from the data that if used in isolation (similarly to Physical) this has a negative effect on Finishing and Crossing. I'm wondering if this merits any further investigation, as the schedule otherwise looks very powerful. Perhaps if combined with Attacking or another Attacking training this would cancel out the regression?
Secondly, have you taken a look at Set Pieces development? I've struggled to determine if you're better off setting the takers to train on Delivery every week, or mix it up with Attacking Corners, Attacking Free Kicks etc?
Hey bud, great to hear you've been doing some experimenting yourself.
Making a training schedule that is more 'bespoke' for different playing positions in order to minimise 'CA waste' would be great, but I don't know if it's achievable in the game. The impression I get from my experiments is that combining the different types of training sessions in FM isn't simple addition / subtractions. eg. you suggest combining Possession + Attacking to 'cancel out' the loss of FIN/CRO from Possession. I don't think it works that strictly in practice. When you combine Possession + Attacking, it's more like the negative effects on FIN/CRO will not take effect, and FIN/CRO will grow according to the effects of Attacking.
eg. supposing
Pos: -1 on FIN/CRO
Att: +1 on FIN/CRO
Pos + Att: not -1 + 1 = 0 but 0 + 1 = 1.
It's an area that absolutely merits further investigation. But I do feel that I need to move onto other aspects of the game, so I don't think I'll be spending more time on training so soon.
Set piece is also a mysterious field. There are some training sessions that (in isolation) boost the set piece attributes, but when I formulate a training schedule, set piece growth does not take place at all.. I have a feeling that set piece growth is more due to actual experience on the pitch rather than from training. This of course requires testing for proof.
Hello! Is any chance that you make a EBTS for FM24??? Please!!! I hope you see the comment!
Hey bud, sorry for the late reply. Sorry mate no plans to release an updated version for FM24. This is because I cannot assume that the test results from FM23 are also valid in FM24, and I do not want to release a training schedule without having evidence that it is equally effective in FM24.
@@ebfm no worries friend! Thanks for the reply!
Top man! Two quick questions: 1) Is it better for fatigue and injury risk to include recovery sessions instead of "rest" slots? 2) What is the difference in keeping Weds and Sats empty (autofill when you have a match) VS actually slotting in a matchday slots in weds and sats? I partially know the answer to this since matchday slots add a match preview in the last slot of the day before a match and an automatic recovery the next day in the top slot.. but I'd like your insight on this :)
He made a video on rest vs recovery a little while ago. Rest is better than recovery.
Hey mate,
1. In the Part 9 video I found that Recovery sessions are next to useless. Rest is better.
2. You've guessed it. To avoid the automatic insertion of Match Preview and Recovery sessions.
Please tell me if this is not corrent but in my experience when your players complain about the training it is usualy because you have a bad trainer assigned to that perticular training. Going to the "trainers" section in the training tab you can change the assignment of trainers and even ask your assistent coach to do it. Usualy swapping some trainers around fixes the complains for me. Cheers!
Hey mate, I haven't considered the possibility that complaints could be due to bad coach assignments, but it's an interesting suggestion. Will need to test it out in the future.
Gotta say I have the best staff and I hardly get any complaints (using ebts)
Came to this late but i think there's another experiment to be done.
Control training vs EBTS vs EBTS modified to include some match prep schedules vs a schedule maxing out match prep.
Test is player growth vs league position. What is the trade-off in maximising player growth to try and achieve better results?
Hi Max! Loving your videos, thank you for all this work.
Do you have any advice for adjusting this training schedule for semi-professional teams that only have 4 to 6 training slots?
Hey mate, I've uploaded a separate training schedule for semi-pro teams with 4 sessions/week. The download link is in the Description 😉
Nice job my friend. Will you approuch coaches and individual training in your next videos? And the double intensity? Thx
hey bud, I've touched on the quality of the coaching staff / individual training / training intensity in my previous videos. Check out the earlier parts of this FM23 Training Analysis series.
Keen to give this a go! Quick question and apologies if ive missed it somewhere along the line, but what do you have set as the individual intensity based on condition? Eg double intensity, no pitch gym work etc
So we could fill an empty space with a single match tactic to take advantage of this training, since it's only when there's more than one that it's no longer interesting.
hey man, love your videos. Do you know if they changed it for the fm24 or if the results are similar to the fm23?
hey bud sorry for the late. I can't say for sure whether the results are applicable in FM24. But.. considering that FM24 didn't change much from FM23, I'd say the results are applicable.
Thank you Maxim@@ebfm
When there is a match the training slot right before the match day is changed to match preview by default do I replace it or keep match preview?
this shit is insane
Perhaps I missed it in one of the series' videos, but did you find any correlation between training workload for coaches and training efficacy for players? Does the quality decrease if the workload is heavy and improve if light, or is that a meaningless bit of information?
hey bud, no I did not test the workload of coaches. I should have, as it might be a factor in determining player growth.
As you know, pace and acceleration have a greater impact on the game than just CA figures. Would it be a good option to add a quickness session instead of just one existing training session?
Yes, very nice work. Great job, man. BUT, you had a ton of work linking the training schedule with player growth. That's ok and very useful. Should you do the same with the match performance? I tried using your base schedule, and it's fine, but i think it had a negative impact on the match performance. Could't know without new studies ou yours. 😅
Another question for reserach: HOW MUCH does the CA rating affect the match performance on the long run?
Hey bud, sorry for the late. The negative impact on match performance could be due to the high physical demand of the training schedule. Feel free to take out 1-2 sessions/week to achieve the optimum balance between growth & match performance.
I love the effort that went into this! I do have a couple of questions. What training intensity settings did you use for the tests? I usually have double intensity for full and almost full fitness. I am wondering what setting I should use. Second question, why are you so awesome?
Hey bud,
1. For all my tests, Training Intensity was left at its default values (None-Half-Normal-Normal-Normal). In your actual saves, feel free to adjust the Training Intensity according to how tired your players are.
2. There's still a long way to go.
Hello, Great series you have here. One thing that is floating around the Webs is that assigning players position to train will lead to better growth. And i saw on time 14:32 of your video that all your players have assigned individual training Playing Position. maybe this would be worth an investigation ? :)
Hey bud, I didn't do any tests on individual training so can't say for sure. It's a frequently asked topic though, I am planning to tackle it (hopefully) soon.
Great stuff. I was wondering if you did any tests whether diminishing returns were session specific. For example if I had a training schedule containing only 4 Defending sessions, would the benefit of adding an Attacking session be closer to full benefit of a single Attacking session or would be it be closer to adding another Defending session. They do share attributes that are boosted by it, albeit at different priority %. Or maybe a better question would be using another more similar session like Defending Disengaged.
Hey mate, it's an intriguing question which I haven't tested. My guess is that the diminishing return phenomenon are 'attribute type specific' for the 4 types of attributes (mental / technical / physical / GK). eg. 4 Def + 1 Att would show a diminishing return that is similar to 5 Def, since the range of attributes boosted by the two sessions are almost identical. But with 4 Def + 1 Phy, there would not be minimal diminishing returns from the 1 Physical session. It's a guess though.
You don’t mention anything about doing Teamwork, Match Review and Team Bonding here.
I’ve always been told and believed these are crucial for team cohesion and performance.
Do you use any of these? If not, then why?
Great work by the way, you’re the man
Hey bud, you can feel free to add some additional sessions into the schedule when you've got 0/1 matches/week.
There are 2 gaps of knowledge though:
1. Do sessions like Community Outreach / Team Bonding actually raise the parameters related to Team Dynamics eg. Cohesion, Hierarchy, Social Groups etc.?
2. If those parameters are higher, does it actually lead to better team performance on the pitch?
More research in this area will be needed before I can make conclusive recommendations.
@@ebfm Thanks for the swift reply and will do! I like to add Match Review after performing poorly. I do find it mitigates the same sort of tactical mistakes I first witnessed, of course I don't have the sort of in depth data you are speaking of lol.
Do people know if all this analysis and logic behind this that was applicable for FM23 still works for FM24?!
Hi, I used your example to create a my own schedule with 4 Def, 4 Att, 2 Phy and 3 MP (for a 1 game week) would love to see you test this and what kind of results it brings
Hey bud, great to see you experimenting your own schedules. Sorry I'm not accepting test requests for custom training schedules for now, as I'm in the process of making my next video.
im having problems with injuries / fatigue when having UCL + league match congestion. Any tips?
Can you explain why stacking preseason with heavy physical training doesn’t help player fatigue later on in the season? You mentioned that was a myth in one of your videos
Hey bud, there's no reason to believe that the pattern of player growth is any different in June (preseason) than in Feb (mid-season). It's not like the Physical attributes grow only during pre-season. So there is no reason to focus exclusively on the growth of Physical attributes during pre-season, as it will come at the expense of Technical / Mental attributes.
@@ebfm the reason that I’ve heard is the idea that heavy physical training early sort of builds up fitness. As if heavy physical training early will lead to less fatigue during the season. That’s what I’m wondering about, if that heavy training early leads to less injuries, better fitness, less fatigue during the rest of the season. I agree with you about the attribute growth 100%. Great vids btw, you put in loads of work and it’s very appreciated
@@jakesimpson5233 If you focused on Physical growth for 2 months, maybe Natural Fitness of players will go up by like 1? Which may make a marginal difference in the players' rate of fatigue during the season, yes. That's the only possible reasoning I can think of behind the claim that preseasons should be full of physical training sessions.
hi just discovered your channel and found it very informative, my question is do you use your training sessions in pre season or do you alter it?
Given that every session has a diminishing return on the amount of C.A/Attribute gained, would it be better to have training schedule that has 1 of each but include more than 5 types?
Hey bud,
The 5 types of training sessions were chosen to cover as many player attributes as possible. So if my tests are correct, then just using those 5 sessions should be sufficient.
@@ebfm Hey Mate, thanks for the response. I don't think I explained my self properly. As per your findings, a player gets almost 6 CA when having only one defense slot, only 8 CA when using two defense Slot. So the second slot is increasing the CA by only about 2. Is this penalty due to using the same training multiple times a week or is it just due to increase in total number of sessions. For example: Would having 1 slot of Attacking and 1 slot of Defense a week be more effective than 2 session of either?
@@arifadnan3224
Hey bud, I think the answer is the latter.
The decreased 'efficiency' of training sessions is not due to using the same session multiple times, but more due to there being a 'cap' on the amount of growth in CA rating that can be attained per month.
I believe that as you increase the number of training sessions/week, the amount of growth attained per month slows down, regardless of the type of training sessions that are used.
1. I have watched 10+ of your videos as a result of the zealand issue so an upside to be plagiarized.
2. Watching your videos I am reminded of jurassic park quote... Yeah, yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could that they didn't stop to think if they should. Optimum tactics and training begin to remove the point of playing. I can imagine developers will start to add patches which change the settings simple to counter youtubers who hack the game.
Its a shame to discover next match sessions have no affect.
Hi thanx for the amazing work you have been doing. I was wondering how is team bonding and community outreach affect team cohesion? And how in turn team cohesion affects your players performance?
Maybe you can investigate this.
Hey bud, I haven't tested team cohesion yet. It's a frequently requested topic so it is on my to-do-list.
Never saw you talking about the "rest" tab
what is the optimal settings there? when players have the full green heart, should i go 2x than normal training?
Hey mate, this year I didn't go into too much details about the Rest tab.
Since my training schedule already causes higher-than-normal injury risk, I suggest you leave it as its default settings. Double Intensity would raise the injury risk too much.
I have a question, does individual training have much effect on player injury/fatigue? Also does this have any benefits as opposed to strictly team training sessions?
Hey mate, I haven't tested whether individual training causes fatigue or raises injury risk, so can't say for sure. Individual training CAN provide additional growth. It was discussed in the Part 5 video (ruclips.net/video/m5WUIpCkDbU/видео.html).
Hey nice video, can u talk about how staff effects the training and what staff-atributes are optimal for your training sessions.
Hey bud, I've touched on staff attributes briefly in the Part 3 video (ruclips.net/video/RwTSamdwi_E/видео.html). Higher staff attributes do lead to faster player growth. Didn't get a chance to delve any deeper though 😅
@@ebfm Ty very much
Is it possible to make a skin for fm where you can see the centi values to improve accuracy and decrease variation of results?
Bud, that would be the dream. Any idea how it could be done?
@@ebfm Idk you'd need to talk to someone who knows the ins and outs of fm23 skins. From what i have seen nobody has done it and I don't know if there is any way of directly viewing the 'centi attributes'. It might be inaccessible without very intrusive mods.
I’m not native speaker and probably I missed something. But, if I put recovery sessions at this training to reduce injuries, it’s a bad thing? I got 4 injuries a week in 2 moth. Thank you a lot!
Hey bud, I've covered this in my Part 9 video (ruclips.net/video/mGK2AkDxxMs/видео.html), but Recovery session is next to useless. No need to use them. Better just to give your players a rest.
@@ebfm I’m going to see this video. Ty mate
Not sure if you've seen but Zealand essentially copy and pasted all your work into a video without giving any credit..
Or they also did their own tests and came to the same conclusions... Almost like they're both playing FM23 and have done testing for years! Both channels make excellent content.
@@scottkid2204 He's been doing tests for years why all of a sudden would he cover every single thing EBFM. Its copied without a shadow of a doubt only question is if or not Zealand was aware which he probably isn't but still doesn't make it right
Hey bud, thanks for letting me know. I've seen it, I'm not bothered by it.
He uploaded a video today to explain what happened - essentially both channels use a 3rd party service to test and receive data and they both received the same results. They just happened to both upload the resulting video at similar times.
@@Aylott I watched and it cleared up a lot, glad he done that I said in previous comment i highly doubt Zealand was aware of EBFM’s. But how close the videos where to each other there was no way it was coincidental just glad we got all the information now
No match review, team bonding or community outreach? Maybe this is better if you ONLY care about CA, but team cohesion would take a massive hit with this schedule, surely?
Hey bud, yup I've said this in the video but my schedules are aimed ONLY at maximising growth. It does not take into account other factors eg. team cohesion.
certain of training schedules have features to increase cohesion beside of drills, dont waste session for team bonding or community session, pick a session or two at least that including cohesion and drills impacts then go rest all day after full intensity of training
Max, any thoughts on using recovery instead of rest? The difference in 'impacts' in-game seem to be beneficial?
EDIT - found it in one of the other episodes, my bad!
hey bud, looks like you've already found it but this topic was discussed in the Part 9 training video.
Recovery sessions were practically useless according to my tests, that's why I didn't include them in my schedule.
@@ebfm appreciate the quick reply, was very surprised to learn that! Love the videos mate, I’m bingeing them alongside my save. Thinking of changing to the wed day matchdays only, does that then proclude you from receiving the fees received for TV matches? Can make a big difference to small clubs like mine (Buxton)
Do you run your DBs on your own machine or on a virtual machine to save time?
All experiments done on my own PC.
@@ebfm thanks. Im sorry you are going through this issue with Zs team.
Do I need to add EBTS for every week again and again, or can I specify somewhere that I want to use EBTS in each week (unless all players are on holiday)?
You can use it every week. It has all the nutrition players need. But do feel free to take out 1-2 sessions/week if you've got a busy schedule.
@@ebfm I understand that, But I meant, if there is an option that you can set it for all weeks at once, or do you have to manually add it yourself each week?
@@jorgenbrouwer6460 Well you can take out 1-2 sessions/week, save it as a separate training schedule, then load that schedule whenever you have a busy fixture.
@@ebfm I want to keep it exactly as it is 🙂 As you did a very good explanation why it works. It's just the if I want to use it for the whole year, I have to load it 52 times. Isn't there a button to load it for the whole year at once?
@@jorgenbrouwer6460 There is a button to copy & paste the schedules! At the top right corner of each week!
To the Author of this which schedule is best to use for the entire season. Also what is the difference between the 2 schedules please.
Use "EBTS23" schedule.
EBTS23 Mini is only for semi-pro clubs with limited number of training sessions/week.
Great video as always, I don't know if this was explained already in the series but why would Ground defence be better than a 3rd Attacking training in your combinations the 3 Def + 3 Att was 0.19 ALL worse but that could be because of the removed Physical training to accommodate for the change, Unless I missed something about ground defence being the magic sauce, wouldn't a combo of 3 Def +3 Att +3 Phys +2 MP be the strongest? (I sense that its probably because of the GK's needing training and my version would not help my GK grow as much)
Your answer is correct. 1 Ground Defence session was inserted in my training schedule to cater for the growth of goalkeepers.
thank you for your work
Great work, mate! One question, you mentioned that your weekly schedule is enough even for a only 1 match per week. Assuming your schedule is full committed to develop CA, wouldn't it be nice to give a go with some Recreation/Bonding time or Set-Pieces trainning on those free spots when available?
Hey bud, you can feel free to add some additional sessions into the schedule when you've got 0/1 matches/week.
There are 2 gaps of knowledge though which make me hesitant to recommend them:
1. Do 'team bonding' sessions actually help the parameters related to Team Dynamics eg. Cohesion, Hierarchy, Social Groups etc.?
2. Does better Team Dynamics actually lead to better team performance on the pitch?
More research in this area will be needed before I can make conclusive recommendations.
@@ebfm Thanks for the promptly reply and the amazing job in this series once again. Sadly, I do not posses the answers for these questions, I would assume so but I don't have the evidence to confirm that theory haha. In my experience and history with FM, just by having better players you are more prone for better results. You usually see people playing top teams with plug-in-play tactics and having no issue at all. Probably because having a team with better heading/jumping reach/strength is more effective in set-pieces rather than trainning a lot of it in the schedules. Keep the good working going, have a nice day!
@@FariasBk I also think FM is 70% about the quality of players 😅 There's so much a good tactic can do.
But then football in real life is probably like that too, so I guess you can say it's realistic.
@@ebfm Hey, friend. Can I ask you some help? I was not able to found your options to REST - TRAINING INTENSITY SCHEDULE in your videos. I know I should use automatic, but in terms of intensity based on condition what should I use? For now I'm using No work / No work / Half / Normal / Double. Have a nice day!
@@FariasBk Hey mate, my tests were based on the default training intensity (None-Half-Normal-Normal-Normal). But feel free to adjust them as you wish. 0 match weeks - increase the intensity. 2 match weeks - lower the intensity. Simple!
subbed.
Hello, I cannot use this as a training tactic.
hi, thanks for your videos
got two questions btw
I think in one of your videos you said that player growth is not depends on whether team is winning or losing (as far as I can remember)
but when my B team in Spain promoted to Second Ligue and started to lose all the matches all the players constatly had very bad morale and also the training raiting was below 6.7 for most of the players
___
and the second question: for best progress player needs first team mathces, right? So if we take England U18 and U21 squads are not the options. But could my B team in Spain be considered as first team?
Hey mate,
1. I believe winning/losing itself does not affect growth, but Morale might. I haven't tested the effects of Morale on player growth.
It is possible that a losing streak will lead to lower morale & affect growth.
2. It doesn't strictly have to be first team matches. The reputation of the match may be a factor in growth. So of course first team matches will boost growth more than U21/U18/B Team matches. But 1st team matches are the best since the reputation will be the highest with 1st team matches.
@@ebfm for the second:
Let's say my B team plays in Spanish second division which rank is 36, and also there is Irish Premier division which rank is 61. What is better? Keep them on B team or send to Ireland?
Check the reputation of the competition (You'll need the in-game editor for this). Whatever division has the higher reputation will benefit your players more (if we accept the hypothesis that higher competition reputation leads to better player growth).@@tarasnykolyshyn3424
How would you apply this to mobile? Specifically, FM23 Touch?
There seems to be issue with a decline in dribbling, especially when the players get older, or is that just me? I have continual problems try to stop its decline.
Is unlearning player traits freeing up CA points?
You had mentioned the player belief that training should be heavier in preseason was a myth and it makes me wonder if you have any evidence to contradict what we've always been told about how a heavier preseason training regime helps prepare your players better for a more intense season. Is that not the case?
Hey bud, mainly because the training sessions I used (Attacking / Defending / Match Practice) boost the growth of all categories of attributes (Mental + Technical + Physical), while the 'physical training sessions' are only effective against Physical attributes. Why settle for 1 when you can get 3?
I understand that EBTS schedule is to maximize player growth. What about team performance? Not training any tactics or set pieces or any other aspect of the game, won’t be bad for team performance? I mean, could you test the results of the team throughout the season?
Anyway, great job!! I really love your videos!!
Im playing a real save with a team media prediction 15th using these schedules and halfway through season im in first place so that should answer your question.
No, some rando stating he's leading a league when that depends on a ton of other factors (you can win the Premiership with a 100 CA average team just by using an OP tactic from Arena) does not answer your question.
However, past tests done here on match practice/set pieces etc routines seemed to show they didn't influence the results enough to be statistically relevant. Tactics familiarity, morale, team cohesion etc overall values do (as tested on FMArena for instance), but those are also values that tend to develop in time anyway. If you don't do a complete revolution in your roster each summer, the beginning of your first season with a club might be the only time you should worry about it (and still it could very well be not worth the bother if you do everything else right).
I do find that some match preview/review and team cohesion sessions added on top can't hurt (especially because of how the day after the match rest settings work), but it doesn't make that big of a difference.
Tl;dr: training has a surprisingly low effect on actual match performance, outside the obvious "indirect" higher CA = better results.
@@kadatherion_ so basically you said the same thing as me. I ran my own tests using Max's test database comparing his training to other popular training schedules out there and they made no difference at all in team results vs team using Max's training.
@@mantorras7752 I gave an answer based on specifics and references, and with the reasons why things are in a certain way, instead of a "I believe so for unrelated reasons, just trust my guts". If you actually had made objective tests and statistical relevant comparisons you should have just mentioned that instead of basically replying with the equivalent of magical thinking alone. What you are saying *NOW* is a valid answer to the OP, the previous reply wasn't.
Hey mate, I did not test the effects of EBTS on team performance. I've mentioned this in the Part 10 video, but the main purpose of these videos is to uncover the FM game mechanics related to training . The training schedule is almost a by-product of it.
It is certainly possible that there are other training schedules out there that can boost the win rate of your team better than my EBTS. The EBTS is focused solely on player growth.
Im really struggling with player fitness using the training schedule, its fine for 1 game a week but when there is 2 nobody in the starting 11 will have full fitness. Have you any ideas how to combat this?
Hey bud, 2 matches/week will be tough for any player to recover from.
Possibly take out 1 or 2 training sessions from my schedule if your players are struggling. Or turn down the training intensity to half.
@@ebfm Thanks i'll give this a try, Love the content btw 👍
I'm wondering about training intensity. Can't find the post where you discussed it.
Hey bud, I discussed in Part 3 of my training analysis video (ruclips.net/video/RwTSamdwi_E/видео.html).
@@ebfm Ah cool, couldn't find it in the newest ones so gave up. Tnx, m8!
@@ebfm Is there one where you decided on what intensity to set the training schedule?
@@PasOdMater I don't think I ever recommended staying on a certain training intensity. The default training intensity (None-Half-Normal-Normal-Normal) should be fine in most cases. Consider lowering it when your fixtures get hectic.
@@ebfm I see, would have bet that there was one video where you set it but can't remember where it was. Did you do any testing on this? Seems like an important piece of the formula.
can someone explain to me what is the difference between the league is playable or view-only
Maybe I'm not paying attention enough but, will the training facilities and coaches quality will affect the growth??
Yes. I've covered this in the Part 3 video (ruclips.net/video/RwTSamdwi_E/видео.html).
is this guide still relevant with FM24?
Hey bud, these tests were based on FM23 so can't say for sure whether they work on FM24. But since not much as changed between FM23&24, I'd say 95% of the findings from FM23 are applicable on FM24.
What if you trade 2 Physical for 2 Overall, won't it boost your results? Since a training session lose its maximum value after the first training, wouldn't be beneficial to also trade one attacking for another one with similar CA/attribute growth potential like Chance Creation?
Hey mate, it's a keen suggestion. Trading 1 or 2 Physical sessions with Overall or other types of sessions may return a performance superior to my training schedule.
But I couldn't possibly test every single possible combination so I had to stop somewhere 😅
@ebfm fair enough, are you detailing somewhere how you test it and may I ask if you could tell me how much time it would take roughly? Here or in PM eventually.
@@baiisun Well, I always write a summary of my testing methods in my videos, for example 1:27 in this video.
Testing 1 type of training schedule using my Test League setup typically takes about 1-2hrs, depending on how much sample size I'm after. + data analysis + create graphs for presentation.
@@ebfm Great thanks. So I guess you need the editor to set up all those parameters? Or can you share a save file of your setup? I wouldn't mind trying a few things and maybe help you gathering you some extra data if you're keen but I guess I'll need the editor to see the percentile at least?
@@baiisun This is the savefile that I used: www.dropbox.com/s/x9g8w2b22ozsbjy/23TL.2%2020yrs%20no%20training%2Bmatch.fm?dl=0
Link was included in the Part 7 video (ruclips.net/video/cRng3wiZ4UE/видео.html).
When you load the savefile there'll be 2 error messages that pop up, just click OK to load. This is due to a glitch in the FM23 editor prior to the v23.4 patch.
Feel free to play around with it. And yes you will need the in-game editor to run some of these tests.
Zealand just uploaded a video explaining what happened regarding both of you using the same data. Basically FM Korea gave you both the same data because they don't run tests for every request but instead basically run the test once and then give the data to whoever requests it.
Hey bud, I've already commented on Zealand's video, but I didn't receive anything from this FM Korea website. Will be clarifying things further with Zealand.
Can you test if player position training is effective? Like training a striker as an AF rather than the default (ST)
Hey mate, it's a frequently requested topic. It's on my list of things to research.
hi, is this training schedule applicable to fm24?
Hey bud, I haven't tested it in FM24 so can't say for sure.
@@ebfm alright thanks
Would "Recovery" sessions help with fatigue in your training schedules, for example after Matches or even after Training matches?
Thank you
Great work by the way 👍
Hey mate, in the Part 9 video (ruclips.net/video/mGK2AkDxxMs/видео.html) I found that Recovery sessions are next to worthless 😅
Hi Max, do you use the same schedule in Pre-season?
Yes
Yup, I've explained this in the Part 10 video but you can use the same schedule all year round.
How about GKs? No session is scheduled for goalie training 🤔
Ground Defence is the training session that boosts the growth of GKs. Refer to Part 7/8 video where I explain the rationale for using Ground Defence sessions.
For pre season I can use the EBTS?
yes. you can use it anytime during the season.
@@ebfm and use this training to implement a tiki Taka approach it’s possible adjusts?
Most of my matches are on Thu/Sunday will there be alternative schedules?
No just rearrange the schedule based on your match days
Nah sorry no alternative schedules. You'll have to move the training sessions yourself to cater for your fixtures.
@@ebfm best to more them forward or backward or doesnt matter?
work that in FM24 to?