Front tyre chicken strips depend on the front geometry which is your current setup with you onboard are at the maximum lean angle. To put it simply If you increase forks angle comparing to what you have now (measured from vertical line) lets say you go from 23.5 to 24.5 degrees you will get much smaller chicken strips in the front (and probably oversteer as unwanted bonus depending on the trail), if you decrease forks angle, for example 25.5 to 24 degrees (and maybe understeer as unwanted bonus depending on the trail), then you will get much bigger chicken strips in the front. The reason for that is when you in the corner, front tyre is always leaning more than the rear into the direction of the turn and the reason to that - forks angle. You may keep your motorcycle vertical and turn the steering to the side and then look at what you got - rear tire vertical, front tyre leaned to the direction of the turn. Imagine impossible condition - 90 degree forks angle (forks parallel to the ground) then turning the steering will cause zero wheel turning around vertical axis, wheel will just lean to the left and to the right. On the other hand every manufacturer design their tire profiles with this effect in mind, but it is unknown what geometry they had in mind while designing the tire exactly, however for safety reasons and taking in account that some bikes (zx-10r from 2011, RSV4, etc..) have very lean forks angle, - front tyre will be made with safety margin so even on these bikes you would not run off the edge of the front tire. Example - same rider taking same turns at the same speed on RSV4 will have smaller front chicken strips comparing to him doing it on stock S1000RR). Now it is obvious that you can choose tires with right profile for your bike, those which were designed to fit your front geometry closer - this will give you more grip and confidence both front and rear. Sure all above is only valid if you have adequate spring rate, forks oil level, correct swingarm angle, correct shock linkage rate and progression, sag is set right and damping is adequate, wheelbase is correct for rider and bike weight distribution, over vise you may end up with all sorts of anomalies for example you going straight as on sportbike which, geometry wise, suddenly becomes a chopper at the apex. Every setup consists of repetitive iterations, and if you do it right then you reaching towards better setup, however at the same time you will be riding faster with each correct iteration which adds another factor to the "next step right setup" definition.
Great advice, sir! Your comment at 00:45 is especially encouraging because there seems to be a lot of pressure from my riding community to abide on the rear tire's bleeding edge while turning. I am comfortable leaning my bike, but have yet to determine why that much lean is necessary off-track. Regarding the matter of front tire chicken strips, I appreciate your suggestion to not worry about it and focus on skill-building.
you all probably dont care but does anybody know a way to get back into an instagram account? I was stupid lost my password. I would appreciate any assistance you can offer me!
@London Zeke Thanks for your reply. I found the site thru google and im waiting for the hacking stuff atm. Takes quite some time so I will reply here later with my results.
I wouldn't be concerned per se. I would be looking at pics from the track day to see if I was getting off the bike enough and check my lean angles etc. If hot tire pressures are correct, evaluate the lean angles :)
I made a big mistake when racing in raising the forks 8mm through the yokes/trees...damn near fold in half at a slow 2nd gear corner! Put it back to stock then increased it 2mm at a time eventually ending up with 4mm and a turn or two of preload to support the changed weight bias.
If you're counter leaning at all on the streets you're not gonna get rid of your chicken strips on a bike with good tire pressure and proper suspension set up. If you are some how you're on your way to a coffin.
Should I be concerned about the setup on my bike, since I have no chicken strips front or rear? I have an RC51 using Pirelli Superbike Pros on the track, and just finished a set of PP2CT's on the street. Same deal with both types of tire.
Not necessarily based on steering head, rake and trail and fork length. There are several models that needs the forks slightly higher than stock for stability, and if you work in small increments of 2mm or so at a time, you will find the fork placement location that gives you the steering you need.
Hi Dave, I have an Aprilia rsv mele factory 05, I put a 200 tyre in the rear which pushed up rear little bit, it turns in really quickly and I like it. I have 4 rings showing out of the top yolk on the forks, should I compensate it by dropping it down to three because the 200 tyre lifted the rear, or should I try it and if the tyre wear and the handling is good leave it as it is? Sorry if I posted thus in wrong place. All advice would be greatly appreciated. Many thanks, Richard.
Run it as is for a while to get used to it. Then as a test, add several turns of preload to simulate changing to 3 rings to see how turn in (no brakes!) changes and if you like it.
I experience the opposite. I have a 06 SV650S with Dunlop Q3+, 160/60 in the back and a 120/60 in the front. I run 31/33 for pressures(cold). I have re-sprung the front for my weight and have installed a rear shock. Everything suspension setup correctly. I have about 3/4 of an inch of strips in the rear but almost to the edge on the front. The Last thing I want is the front end to wash out, Should I just not worry about it or do I have something wrong?
I would change to a 120/70 to give yourself more lean and safety. Measure the difference in circumference and simply change geometry via fork position.
@@catalystreactionsbw thank you for the reply . I will bare that in mind when I get my next set of rubber . Until then, how much lean can I expect to get on the 60 series before I run out ? Thank you for you time.
Dave, I'm running Bridgestone s21's on a 750 k7 and I'm rolling of the edge on the rear tyre, yet have 5-6mm of tyre left to use on the front. Should I put a 190/55 on the rear or look at chassis/suspension/tyre pressures first? Pressures are 32 front 34 rear
That is profile first and foremost front to to rear and very common. Second would be adding 2-3psi cold to the rear and seeing if that helped. If not, then a 180/60 would make sense or a 190/55.
Hi sir, I'm experiencing the opposite on my CBR500R. I was checking my tires yesterday and I have about 1/4" of chicken strip on the rear, but the front is almost to the very edge of the tire. I felt like this should be the opposite and after checking around that seems to be the case. Do you have any idea what would be causing this? I definitely don't want the front end slipping out from under me.
Is you front tire pressure lower than the rear by 3-5psi? If so you will be flexing the front tire and reaching the edge because of the low pressure. Match the front pressure to the rear and see if there's a new area of wear that is less than before.
I ride with an old fella who has several motorcycles and ALL of em he uses almost the entire front tire from his old brit twin to his boxer to his Sportster powered Buell. No knee dragging no hanging off the guy just rides fast in his mid 70s Now Im no sloutch but I cant pace with him and always have quite the wide chicken strip on my front tire even if I use most all of the rear. I was hoping there was some simple answer lol btw Damn you looked so much younger 12 years ago these latter years are just so unfairly unkind lol
It is the area of tyre that is not in contact with the ground. This directly relates to the lean angle used. The less you lean, the bigger the area of unused tire, therefore you are a 'chicken" as you will not lean the bike over. As a frame of reference, I always have chicken strips on my bikes, even my race bikes as I do not need all of the tire.
@@catalystreactionsbw lol thank you for the explanation. If that is the case, my chicken strips are pretty much taking up the whole tire, as I'm not too keen of leaning the bike very much for the fear of the bike sliding from underneeth me and ending up either in a ditch or the oncoming traffic, depending on which way the road curves. Do you have any good tips for finding out the limits of the lean angle traction, without actually dropping the bike first? I spent all my $ on this bike and don't want to find out the hard way...:)
@@VLK-73 This would be a very long answer and a conversation would be much better. Please email me directly vuia dave@davemosstuning.com and mention your YT comment.
I don't care about chicken strips, because I'm not trying to risk leaning my bike to that much of angle on public roads; which usually have sand or dirt on the roads and could cause me to slide my bike. Besides, chicken strips are delicious.
So another way to put things? It would be just plain foolish to try leaning more JUST to reduce the chicken strip...instead focus on better set up and better riding skills and eventually chicken strips migh ought to reflect those efforts? Now to put that into practice myself lol
Front tyre chicken strips depend on the front geometry which is your current setup with you onboard are at the maximum lean angle. To put it simply If you increase forks angle comparing to what you have now (measured from vertical line) lets say you go from 23.5 to 24.5 degrees you will get much smaller chicken strips in the front (and probably oversteer as unwanted bonus depending on the trail), if you decrease forks angle, for example 25.5 to 24 degrees (and maybe understeer as unwanted bonus depending on the trail), then you will get much bigger chicken strips in the front. The reason for that is when you in the corner, front tyre is always leaning more than the rear into the direction of the turn and the reason to that - forks angle. You may keep your motorcycle vertical and turn the steering to the side and then look at what you got - rear tire vertical, front tyre leaned to the direction of the turn. Imagine impossible condition - 90 degree forks angle (forks parallel to the ground) then turning the steering will cause zero wheel turning around vertical axis, wheel will just lean to the left and to the right. On the other hand every manufacturer design their tire profiles with this effect in mind, but it is unknown what geometry they had in mind while designing the tire exactly, however for safety reasons and taking in account that some bikes (zx-10r from 2011, RSV4, etc..) have very lean forks angle, - front tyre will be made with safety margin so even on these bikes you would not run off the edge of the front tire. Example - same rider taking same turns at the same speed on RSV4 will have smaller front chicken strips comparing to him doing it on stock S1000RR). Now it is obvious that you can choose tires with right profile for your bike, those which were designed to fit your front geometry closer - this will give you more grip and confidence both front and rear. Sure all above is only valid if you have adequate spring rate, forks oil level, correct swingarm angle, correct shock linkage rate and progression, sag is set right and damping is adequate, wheelbase is correct for rider and bike weight distribution, over vise you may end up with all sorts of anomalies for example you going straight as on sportbike which, geometry wise, suddenly becomes a chopper at the apex. Every setup consists of repetitive iterations, and if you do it right then you reaching towards better setup, however at the same time you will be riding faster with each correct iteration which adds another factor to the "next step right setup" definition.
Great advice, sir!
Your comment at 00:45 is especially encouraging because there seems to be a lot of pressure from my riding community to abide on the rear tire's bleeding edge while turning. I am comfortable leaning my bike, but have yet to determine why that much lean is necessary off-track. Regarding the matter of front tire chicken strips, I appreciate your suggestion to not worry about it and focus on skill-building.
Great advice. I'm sure you prevented a few low-sides with this upload!
you all probably dont care but does anybody know a way to get back into an instagram account?
I was stupid lost my password. I would appreciate any assistance you can offer me!
@Grey Hugh instablaster :)
@London Zeke Thanks for your reply. I found the site thru google and im waiting for the hacking stuff atm.
Takes quite some time so I will reply here later with my results.
@London Zeke it worked and I finally got access to my account again. I'm so happy!
Thank you so much, you really help me out !
@Grey Hugh you are welcome =)
This guy is immense.explanations are precise and easy to understand.
For a second at the start of the vid I said "Dave is sporting an earring? that's so wrong" haha
bailey9r I was literally going to post when did Dave get the ear ring?!!!
Focusing on the big issues, much like the chicken strips
I wouldn't be concerned per se. I would be looking at pics from the track day to see if I was getting off the bike enough and check my lean angles etc. If hot tire pressures are correct, evaluate the lean angles :)
Tell them they are "chicken" strips and they suddenly make it their life's mission not to have them. Lol
I made a big mistake when racing in raising the forks 8mm through the yokes/trees...damn near fold in half at a slow 2nd gear corner! Put it back to stock then increased it 2mm at a time eventually ending up with 4mm and a turn or two of preload to support the changed weight bias.
only motorcyclists would find chicken strips funny. haha.
If you think about it, a tire that was worn past the edge could not work as well as one that has total contact with the road.
If you're counter leaning at all on the streets you're not gonna get rid of your chicken strips on a bike with good tire pressure and proper suspension set up. If you are some how you're on your way to a coffin.
Should I be concerned about the setup on my bike, since I have no chicken strips front or rear? I have an RC51 using Pirelli Superbike Pros on the track, and just finished a set of PP2CT's on the street. Same deal with both types of tire.
Solid wisdom inside.
Brilliant information. Thank you for your wisdom sharing!
this, and I feel like if I'm on the edge of the tire on my 190/55 on a 5.5" rim then I'm a madman. That angle is steeeeep!
Feel better now, thanks, lol
Thanks!
I ran to the edge of my front tire on my second track day. On a gsxr 1000, on q3+ running 31/30 hot
Due to the pressures you used, the profile gave you more contact patch, hence lower pressures at the track.
Raising fork tube will cause high speed wobbles.
Not necessarily based on steering head, rake and trail and fork length. There are several models that needs the forks slightly higher than stock for stability, and if you work in small increments of 2mm or so at a time, you will find the fork placement location that gives you the steering you need.
Hi Dave, I have an Aprilia rsv mele factory 05, I put a 200 tyre in the rear which pushed up rear little bit, it turns in really quickly and I like it. I have 4 rings showing out of the top yolk on the forks, should I compensate it by dropping it down to three because the 200 tyre lifted the rear, or should I try it and if the tyre wear and the handling is good leave it as it is?
Sorry if I posted thus in wrong place. All advice would be greatly appreciated.
Many thanks, Richard.
Run it as is for a while to get used to it. Then as a test, add several turns of preload to simulate changing to 3 rings to see how turn in (no brakes!) changes and if you like it.
I experience the opposite. I have a 06 SV650S with Dunlop Q3+, 160/60 in the back and a 120/60 in the front. I run 31/33 for pressures(cold). I have re-sprung the front for my weight and have installed a rear shock. Everything suspension setup correctly. I have about 3/4 of an inch of strips in the rear but almost to the edge on the front. The Last thing I want is the front end to wash out, Should I just not worry about it or do I have something wrong?
I would change to a 120/70 to give yourself more lean and safety. Measure the difference in circumference and simply change geometry via fork position.
@@catalystreactionsbw thank you for the reply . I will bare that in mind when I get my next set of rubber . Until then, how much lean can I expect to get on the 60 series before I run out ? Thank you for you time.
@@aadenbeauchamp4302 from your earlier post you are already on the limit with the 60 series.
Great info as always.
Dave, I'm running Bridgestone s21's on a 750 k7 and I'm rolling of the edge on the rear tyre, yet have 5-6mm of tyre left to use on the front. Should I put a 190/55 on the rear or look at chassis/suspension/tyre pressures first? Pressures are 32 front 34 rear
That is profile first and foremost front to to rear and very common. Second would be adding 2-3psi cold to the rear and seeing if that helped. If not, then a 180/60 would make sense or a 190/55.
@@catalystreactionsbw thanks for the fast response and advice Dave! I'll try the pressure first
Hi sir, I'm experiencing the opposite on my CBR500R. I was checking my tires yesterday and I have about 1/4" of chicken strip on the rear, but the front is almost to the very edge of the tire. I felt like this should be the opposite and after checking around that seems to be the case. Do you have any idea what would be causing this? I definitely don't want the front end slipping out from under me.
Is you front tire pressure lower than the rear by 3-5psi? If so you will be flexing the front tire and reaching the edge because of the low pressure. Match the front pressure to the rear and see if there's a new area of wear that is less than before.
@@catalystreactionsbw I should have checked that before. You nailed it. I'll inflate the front to match the rear. Thank you sir.
Dave your should get a piercing, that wire in the wall made it look u had one and honestly it raised your style points by 6 or 9%
I ride with an old fella who has several motorcycles and ALL of em he uses almost the entire front tire from his old brit twin to his boxer to his Sportster powered Buell. No knee dragging no hanging off the guy just rides fast in his mid 70s Now Im no sloutch but I cant pace with him and always have quite the wide chicken strip on my front tire even if I use most all of the rear. I was hoping there was some simple answer lol btw Damn you looked so much younger 12 years ago these latter years are just so unfairly unkind lol
What is a chicken strip?
Just picked up a new bike couple weeks ago, not familiar with the lingo.
It is the area of tyre that is not in contact with the ground. This directly relates to the lean angle used. The less you lean, the bigger the area of unused tire, therefore you are a 'chicken" as you will not lean the bike over. As a frame of reference, I always have chicken strips on my bikes, even my race bikes as I do not need all of the tire.
@@catalystreactionsbw lol thank you for the explanation.
If that is the case, my chicken strips are pretty much taking up the whole tire, as I'm not too keen of leaning the bike very much for the fear of the bike sliding from underneeth me and ending up either in a ditch or the oncoming traffic, depending on which way the road curves.
Do you have any good tips for finding out the limits of the lean angle traction, without actually dropping the bike first?
I spent all my $ on this bike and don't want to find out the hard way...:)
@@VLK-73 This would be a very long answer and a conversation would be much better. Please email me directly vuia dave@davemosstuning.com and mention your YT comment.
I don't care about chicken strips, because I'm not trying to risk leaning my bike to that much of angle on public roads; which usually have sand or dirt on the roads and could cause me to slide my bike. Besides, chicken strips are delicious.
Daryl is a squid.. Whats he banging on about 60/40?.. Bet you his mates ragged him
Damn I’ve been trying to get rid of my front strips forever and now you’re telling me it’s impossible. I was about quarter inch away on the front
You can do it, but is it worth the risk? I choose not to, but that is my rationale is leaning a long way but having some reserve "just in case"
I didnt have chicken strips on front or rear on my 600rr,but then again i have .ore titanium in my body than an A-10 warthog..lol
So another way to put things? It would be just plain foolish to try leaning more JUST to reduce the chicken strip...instead focus on better set up and better riding skills and eventually chicken strips migh ought to reflect those efforts? Now to put that into practice myself lol
what silly question to me chicken strips means you have some tyre in reserve
ive gotten my elbows down on the street..so yeah.. i ride!