I own a CRF450RL setup for ultralight ADV and I have happily put over 18,000 miles on it. First of all there is no cush drive hub. It has rubbers in the clutch just like any other modern dirt bike. The 450 L/RL is more closely related to the CRF450X than the R model. The 450X has won every Baja 1000 race (except one) since its inception in 2005. The Honda has a full subframe unlike its Austrian counterparts which contributes to its weight. Also the Honda motor is silky smooth compared to the Austrian bikes.
Honda built an actual 450 enduro worthy dual sport, meant to haul cargo and go tons of miles without rebuild. The subframe weighs roughly 17lbs, and they ACTUALLY put hd tubes in the tires {+6lbs}. You KTM EXCF will pop tubes at 15psi, cant haul 20lbs on the rear fender, and will need a rebuild in 3 years if u ride a lot. I think 90% of you should quit menstruating about its minor flaws fixed individually with aftermarket {just like every dual sport} and be happy that a Major Brand like Honda took the initiative to build a bike like this, so that that hopefully Suzuki and Yamaha follow.
Congrats on the "analytic" videos. Doing great. Until now I had no experience with the small Hondas, but now we rode the CRF250L in Africa. It got me even more hyped to get a small bike. So agile and since it's less comfy you go a bit slower and experience more. The only downside with the 250/300cc is that's it's not a "fun" bike. It's only very practical. It does not inspire "playing around" in the dirt at all. So I will look for some more punch in the engine. And perhaps the 500 EXC is too extreme for me. Search goes on.
Great video - thanks! I just turned 9,600 miles on my CRF450RL - recently road down the coasts of OR and CA - the perfect sized bike for the trip. With the new ECU, exhaust and other mods it does compete with the KTM 500. I downsized from the T7 and have considered switching to the Husky 701. But for now, I’m happy with the 450 and still learning to ride it to potential off road.
Had they made a Rally version of it, and upscaled the 300 engine rather then detune the RX engine , aka make an sub 150kg Africa Single- I would sell the 690E, even though that is the most hillarius bike I have ever owned.
I just sold my CRF 450L. It is very tall and very twitchy - wonderful for blasting through the desert but not good for slow going trails. Waiting for my Kove 450 Rally to arrive. It's heavier but I think it will be a better fit: more fuel capacity, ABS, and longer maintenance intervals. Also, not as twitchy and doesn't have the tendency to stall. While Honda has a great reputation for dependability, the CRF 450L seems to have a few issues, most of which can be solved with aftermarket ECU and exhaust, throttle tamer and seat. This brings the cost of the bike up significantly. It's a MX bike at its core and my attempts to turn it into a light adventure bike was a waste of money and time. That John T Young ended up getting a KTM 890 R in addition to his 450L (which he modified substantially) evinces its limitations.
I've got the 450L and a Tiger 900 - similar to JTY. There's just no one perfect bike. For BDR/dirt riding the 285lbs of the 450L is IMO a way better choice than a 500lb ADV.
It's a nice bike for sure, but Honda doesn't sell it in Europe. Then even if they did, the Husqvarna 701/KTM 690 make more sense. The maintenance schedule would be the killer for me.
700km in one day with my 450l no problem. It goes like a train at 140kmh ,the Ktm also flames out. The weight is about the same after the muffler is swapped for a decat. The 450 l is a desert racer ktm is for forest. The more you ride the 450l you learn to simply keep the revs up a little bit.
The 450L could have been cool, but they didn't change enough from the R and X models. Too lightly sprung, hard seat, tiny gas tank. The twitchy throttle and flameouts were pretty annoying, and in order to fix everything I just mentioned it cost a lot of extra money on top of the cost of the bike. I think Honda should have focused more on road-worthiness. Let KTM have the title of best off roader while making a much more well-rounded bike.
I think Honda stuffed by first releasing this bike as a 25 hp chocked up version in some countries and then a 45 hp version in other countries. That created a lot of confusion. Buyers then needed to change ECU, pipe etc to make it run properly. In Australia it only lasted about 1 year before they cancelled it. If they made a slightly heavier version with 5000 km oil changes, 12 litre tank, that ran properly, it would have been so successful.
the CRF is a bit heavy for a dual sport but not really a lightweight adv capable machine because of the crazy short service interval... so I'm not exactly sure what I'd do with one that I'd not rather have a ktm 500 (or similar 250lb lighter bike) for on the one end or a 690/701 (or similar 350lb/>3000 mile service interval bike) for on the other end.
I was upgrading from the DRZ (last year) and honestly CRF450 wasn't even on the list, as I was aware of it's problems and the price was only 300 USD less then the 690/701.
Had one, good bike. Needs a bigger fuel tank, Honda needs to address the fueling issues that still persist on the RL model, and it needs a true dual sport motor with longer intervals rather than a detuned motocross motor. Just my opinion.
One of Honda’s odd moves. A ‘parts bin special’ hastily hybridised to fill a gap in their range, rather than carefully thought out from scratch. Too many compromises.
This is a really interesting vid. I was originally looking for a CRF300 for Caroline, but at the back end of covid there was a massive waiting list for them, so I looked for a CRF450, but they weren’t selling them here at that moment……. And that’s how I ended up with the 701. I’ve never regretted it, it’s so good, especially on tight mountain tarmac, but it’s a tad tall for Caroline….. so not perfect for the original purpose. Maybe a CRF should come back on the list for her. She can pick up the FE350, but it’s still very tall. We finally have a little rain here today……it looks like north Wales outside, so that should mean the mountains are finally open again with a reduced fire risk. Best I get enduro fit again! 😃
Comparing $5500 bike with 270cc engine to $12000 bike with 500cc engine? You can't be serious ... As for changing oil, most Japanese bikes have way too long oil changing intervals. My xt250 is 4k miles but, full syn oil is trash after 1-2 thousand if you do off roading. Super Tenere is ridiculous 8k miles intervals. I don't think I would push beyond 4k unless riding on highway at 65mph. I'm using syn oil on all my bikes.
In Australia, there weren't many options for bikes you could register and ride from home into the singletrack. Mine had ecu and exhaust so I thought it was great.
Love mine. All stock. Taking me above 13,000' in Colorado, some technical Black Hlls riding and the Ozarks. Never had said flame out issues. They only time it dies is when i do something dumb. Clutch work os a beautiful thing. 😊 1,500 trouble free miles on my 2023.
Honda needed a replacement for the XR650L. They succeeded except for the engine service intervals and flame out issue, both fixable. Opinion about the 450L will improve over time, even if Honda fails to make these changes.
great bike im sure its just that the competition its up against is better i think ? for all of the reasons you listed why wouldnt i buy a ktm350exc or if for longer trips a 690/husky701 instead ??
Well firstly the 450L isn’t pitched against the the EXCs really, it was more a stand alone bike, a proper dual sport bike, the 450 RX and the 450X are more the competitor to them. The 450L is about 15kg lighter than the 690/701s, so with luggage on they are far more agile and nimble on the trail. They put foam in the swing arm and made it longer than the RX and X to give it better road manners. I race my 450L and always beating guys in the British Rally champs on all sizes of EXCs so really at the end of the day it’s about the rider not the bike to a certain degree. And also, far more importantly, if you love the look of the Honda but can’t stand the look of the KTMs or the Huskies, then it an easy choice. Everyone is different, we all like different things.
@@twowheeledadventuresuk2739 hey i agree i wasnt throwing shade at your bike of choice !! LoL i dont care about the looks of a machine so much and i dont race anything but the time anymore so for me for the small diff in price the 690 or 701 would make a better all around dual sport/adventure/touring mount , im on a 901 now but my next bike will probably be back to a 1cyl for lower weight , i also have a 300xcw that i honestly havent ridden in a long time
good news is in todays world you cant buy a 'bad' machine and for us long time dual sport/Adv bike guys we have never ever had so many great choices before like we do now , the industry kind of ignored us and gave us leftovers until fairly recently @@twowheeledadventuresuk2739
It was supposed to be the modern DR-Z 400. Or a lighter, mor nimble 690 Enduro. It wasn't, like it should have been a 45hp premium version of the CRF300L. It's not street worthy enough for a good dual sport and it's not up with the KTM Performance but got basically the same service requirements.
ok i'll try to explain it for you, the 450l is derived from a motocross bike they changed some things to mask the traits of a motocross bike that make it unsuitable as a dual sport bike such as. detuning the aggressive power delivery, addressing the short engine top end life = valves piston rings etc, added wider ratio gearbox and cush drive to keep the gearbox which is now weaker alive a bit longer (6 gears stuffed in the space intended for 5) added a skirt to the piston to reduce oil consumption that would see the bike consume all it's own oil at highway speeds, softened the suspension for slow speed traction and comfort. so the crf450l still falls into the same category as the other mx derived 450's such as the wr450, klx450, rmx450z and it's predecessor the crf450x all of which were mx bikes made street legal and all of them aren't true dual sports because they aren't truly capable of doing road and trail. what they are is play bikes for someone that requires a street legal bike for their riding area but doesn't actually intend to do any road riding apart from a short transport down the road to a different trail. where the honda 450l failed miserably is it lost the appeal as a play bike that the crf450x had. it lost it's power but it's still maintenance intensive with 1000km oil changes, it still has poor fuel range and lacks ability to carry luggage. it doesn't run properly to meet emissions and requires $$ for retuning before it's even rideable. the reason why it flopped in australia and honda had to dump remaining stock at cost and pull the bike from sale. was they couldn't sell it, it had less power than the drz400e it weighed the same amount with less fuel and oil capacity, cost more, wasn't even in the same realm for reliability and maintenance or luggage carrying ability. there was already a bike from 20 years ago that was better in almost every way and way better as a whole. wr450's still sell well in australia as play bikes, honda could've stayed there as well instead they built a bike that just didn't work it lost all appeal for what it started out as the crf450r and had no ability to adequately do what they morphed it into. and i wouldn't say i hate it, it doesn't even warrant that kind of emotion it's just irrelevant as a bike.
I like and I think it's a good bike to make some mods, it's a real dual sport, to make it as an adventure bike it's a different story, but that American guy John T prove it can be done. But in Europe now only used, they didn't go further of the Euro 4 specs, the japonese don't care anymore, and the example is the Fantic with Yamaha engine street legal, and no more WR street legal...
Who is shopping for both the Africa Twin and the CRF450RL? The two bikes are aimed at two completely different classes of rider from different age groups and fitness categories looking for entirely different motorcycling experiences. Lengthy luggage-laden road tours (Alcan Highway) vs. shorter trips mostly offroad (BDR sections). One is a comfort-seeking rider, the other a performance-seeking rider. BMW GS bikes are better than the AT. The KTMs are better than the RL. John T. Young, while great, is an outlier.
the crf300 has terrible suspension, I recently rode it and it's worse than bad. 450 is a different league, more expensive but worth it, it's a pity it's not available in Europe.
Realistically the 690/701 platform is probably the best choice if your budget is high enough, if not, then get a DR650 and mod the shit out of it. I would still love to see Honda make a 450 rally model but the unfortunate truth is that they probably never will because it will undercut the sales of the Africa Twin, the same thing is true for a factory 690 or 701 rally, it'll undercut the sales of the 890+ models. I think if Honda could get the service intervals lower, then they'd have a killer machine. KTM/Husky will always have the dark cloud of "bad reliability" hanging over their heads regardless of the truth. And with them beginning to outsource the manufacturing of even some of their premium models, a 450 Rally that is made in Japan would be incredibly appealing, and probably very competitive with the Kove 450 Rally. Honestly the Honda name alone would probably cause it to blow the Kove out of the water in terms of sales.
I think the most realistic hope would be a 490 Enduro R, and aftermarket if you want it to rally. Still would probably only happen if emissions killed the 690. Or maybe the new 390 won't be a heavy road piece of crap, and will compete with the 300 Rally. 😃
Its the service intervals that have killed this bike. I think if it was more like 6k then thats a really usable duel sport. I opted for the 701, which is epic, however, id love it to be 30kg lighter
Unless you REALLY want to rip it off road, buy the rally and spend a few grand on it to make it fit your style. Then use the other few grand you saved to buy good riding gear. Just sayin.
I own a CRF450RL setup for ultralight ADV and I have happily put over 18,000 miles on it. First of all there is no cush drive hub. It has rubbers in the clutch just like any other modern dirt bike. The 450 L/RL is more closely related to the CRF450X than the R model. The 450X has won every Baja 1000 race (except one) since its inception in 2005. The Honda has a full subframe unlike its Austrian counterparts which contributes to its weight. Also the Honda motor is silky smooth compared to the Austrian bikes.
Honda built an actual 450 enduro worthy dual sport, meant to haul cargo and go tons of miles without rebuild. The subframe weighs roughly 17lbs, and they ACTUALLY put hd tubes in the tires {+6lbs}. You KTM EXCF will pop tubes at 15psi, cant haul 20lbs on the rear fender, and will need a rebuild in 3 years if u ride a lot. I think 90% of you should quit menstruating about its minor flaws fixed individually with aftermarket {just like every dual sport} and be happy that a Major Brand like Honda took the initiative to build a bike like this, so that that hopefully Suzuki and Yamaha follow.
Congrats on the "analytic" videos. Doing great. Until now I had no experience with the small Hondas, but now we rode the CRF250L in Africa. It got me even more hyped to get a small bike. So agile and since it's less comfy you go a bit slower and experience more. The only downside with the 250/300cc is that's it's not a "fun" bike. It's only very practical. It does not inspire "playing around" in the dirt at all. So I will look for some more punch in the engine. And perhaps the 500 EXC is too extreme for me. Search goes on.
Great video - thanks! I just turned 9,600 miles on my CRF450RL - recently road down the coasts of OR and CA - the perfect sized bike for the trip. With the new ECU, exhaust and other mods it does compete with the KTM 500. I downsized from the T7 and have considered switching to the Husky 701. But for now, I’m happy with the 450 and still learning to ride it to potential off road.
Had they made a Rally version of it, and upscaled the 300 engine rather then detune the RX engine , aka make an sub 150kg Africa Single- I would sell the 690E, even though that is the most hillarius bike I have ever owned.
I just sold my CRF 450L. It is very tall and very twitchy - wonderful for blasting through the desert but not good for slow going trails. Waiting for my Kove 450 Rally to arrive. It's heavier but I think it will be a better fit: more fuel capacity, ABS, and longer maintenance intervals. Also, not as twitchy and doesn't have the tendency to stall. While Honda has a great reputation for dependability, the CRF 450L seems to have a few issues, most of which can be solved with aftermarket ECU and exhaust, throttle tamer and seat. This brings the cost of the bike up significantly. It's a MX bike at its core and my attempts to turn it into a light adventure bike was a waste of money and time. That John T Young ended up getting a KTM 890 R in addition to his 450L (which he modified substantially) evinces its limitations.
I've got the 450L and a Tiger 900 - similar to JTY. There's just no one perfect bike. For BDR/dirt riding the 285lbs of the 450L is IMO a way better choice than a 500lb ADV.
It's a nice bike for sure, but Honda doesn't sell it in Europe. Then even if they did, the Husqvarna 701/KTM 690 make more sense. The maintenance schedule would be the killer for me.
No Cush Hub only rubber damped sprockets.
700km in one day with my 450l no problem. It goes like a train at 140kmh ,the Ktm also flames out. The weight is about the same after the muffler is swapped for a decat. The 450 l is a desert racer ktm is for forest. The more you ride the 450l you learn to simply keep the revs up a little bit.
The 450L could have been cool, but they didn't change enough from the R and X models. Too lightly sprung, hard seat, tiny gas tank. The twitchy throttle and flameouts were pretty annoying, and in order to fix everything I just mentioned it cost a lot of extra money on top of the cost of the bike. I think Honda should have focused more on road-worthiness. Let KTM have the title of best off roader while making a much more well-rounded bike.
I love my crf300rally 😊
I think Honda stuffed by first releasing this bike as a 25 hp chocked up version in some countries and then a 45 hp version in other countries. That created a lot of confusion. Buyers then needed to change ECU, pipe etc to make it run properly. In Australia it only lasted about 1 year before they cancelled it. If they made a slightly heavier version with 5000 km oil changes, 12 litre tank, that ran properly, it would have been so successful.
Yes absolutey yiu are rignt. The must invest in more serious product marketing 😅
They must....
the CRF is a bit heavy for a dual sport but not really a lightweight adv capable machine because of the crazy short service interval... so I'm not exactly sure what I'd do with one that I'd not rather have a ktm 500 (or similar 250lb lighter bike) for on the one end or a 690/701 (or similar 350lb/>3000 mile service interval bike) for on the other end.
I was upgrading from the DRZ (last year) and honestly CRF450 wasn't even on the list, as I was aware of it's problems and the price was only 300 USD less then the 690/701.
Had one, good bike. Needs a bigger fuel tank, Honda needs to address the fueling issues that still persist on the RL model, and it needs a true dual sport motor with longer intervals rather than a detuned motocross motor. Just my opinion.
One of Honda’s odd moves. A ‘parts bin special’ hastily hybridised to fill a gap in their range, rather than carefully thought out from scratch. Too many compromises.
This is a really interesting vid. I was originally looking for a CRF300 for Caroline, but at the back end of covid there was a massive waiting list for them, so I looked for a CRF450, but they weren’t selling them here at that moment……. And that’s how I ended up with the 701. I’ve never regretted it, it’s so good, especially on tight mountain tarmac, but it’s a tad tall for Caroline….. so not perfect for the original purpose. Maybe a CRF should come back on the list for her. She can pick up the FE350, but it’s still very tall.
We finally have a little rain here today……it looks like north Wales outside, so that should mean the mountains are finally open again with a reduced fire risk. Best I get enduro fit again! 😃
Add a Throttle Tamer and a 3rd Party ECU to remediate the flameout problem, the on/off throttle while adding some horses.
Comparing $5500 bike with 270cc engine to $12000 bike with 500cc engine? You can't be serious ... As for changing oil, most Japanese bikes have way too long oil changing intervals. My xt250 is 4k miles but, full syn oil is trash after 1-2 thousand if you do off roading. Super Tenere is ridiculous 8k miles intervals. I don't think I would push beyond 4k unless riding on highway at 65mph. I'm using syn oil on all my bikes.
In Australia, there weren't many options for bikes you could register and ride from home into the singletrack. Mine had ecu and exhaust so I thought it was great.
Love mine. All stock. Taking me above 13,000' in Colorado, some technical Black Hlls riding and the Ozarks. Never had said flame out issues. They only time it dies is when i do something dumb. Clutch work os a beautiful thing. 😊
1,500 trouble free miles on my 2023.
Honda needed a replacement for the XR650L. They succeeded except for the engine service intervals and flame out issue, both fixable. Opinion about the 450L will improve over time, even if Honda fails to make these changes.
great bike im sure its just that the competition its up against is better i think ? for all of the reasons you listed why wouldnt i buy a ktm350exc or if for longer trips a 690/husky701 instead ??
Well firstly the 450L isn’t pitched against the the EXCs really, it was more a stand alone bike, a proper dual sport bike, the 450 RX and the 450X are more the competitor to them. The 450L is about 15kg lighter than the 690/701s, so with luggage on they are far more agile and nimble on the trail. They put foam in the swing arm and made it longer than the RX and X to give it better road manners. I race my 450L and always beating guys in the British Rally champs on all sizes of EXCs so really at the end of the day it’s about the rider not the bike to a certain degree. And also, far more importantly, if you love the look of the Honda but can’t stand the look of the KTMs or the Huskies, then it an easy choice. Everyone is different, we all like different things.
@@twowheeledadventuresuk2739 hey i agree i wasnt throwing shade at your bike of choice !! LoL i dont care about the looks of a machine so much and i dont race anything but the time anymore so for me for the small diff in price the 690 or 701 would make a better all around dual sport/adventure/touring mount , im on a 901 now but my next bike will probably be back to a 1cyl for lower weight , i also have a 300xcw that i honestly havent ridden in a long time
good news is in todays world you cant buy a 'bad' machine and for us long time dual sport/Adv bike guys we have never ever had so many great choices before like we do now , the industry kind of ignored us and gave us leftovers until fairly recently @@twowheeledadventuresuk2739
I really like how mine runs down the backroads but so fat and heavy off road
have you heard of a Dr 650 Suzuki samurai the best jack of cards dual sport motorcycle , o just 7k .
It was supposed to be the modern DR-Z 400. Or a lighter, mor nimble 690 Enduro. It wasn't, like it should have been a 45hp premium version of the CRF300L.
It's not street worthy enough for a good dual sport and it's not up with the KTM Performance but got basically the same service requirements.
ok i'll try to explain it for you, the 450l is derived from a motocross bike they changed some things to mask the traits of a motocross bike that make it unsuitable as a dual sport bike such as. detuning the aggressive power delivery, addressing the short engine top end life = valves piston rings etc, added wider ratio gearbox and cush drive to keep the gearbox which is now weaker alive a bit longer (6 gears stuffed in the space intended for 5) added a skirt to the piston to reduce oil consumption that would see the bike consume all it's own oil at highway speeds, softened the suspension for slow speed traction and comfort.
so the crf450l still falls into the same category as the other mx derived 450's such as the wr450, klx450, rmx450z and it's predecessor the crf450x all of which were mx bikes made street legal and all of them aren't true dual sports because they aren't truly capable of doing road and trail. what they are is play bikes for someone that requires a street legal bike for their riding area but doesn't actually intend to do any road riding apart from a short transport down the road to a different trail.
where the honda 450l failed miserably is it lost the appeal as a play bike that the crf450x had. it lost it's power but it's still maintenance intensive with 1000km oil changes, it still has poor fuel range and lacks ability to carry luggage. it doesn't run properly to meet emissions and requires $$ for retuning before it's even rideable.
the reason why it flopped in australia and honda had to dump remaining stock at cost and pull the bike from sale. was they couldn't sell it, it had less power than the drz400e it weighed the same amount with less fuel and oil capacity, cost more, wasn't even in the same realm for reliability and maintenance or luggage carrying ability. there was already a bike from 20 years ago that was better in almost every way and way better as a whole.
wr450's still sell well in australia as play bikes, honda could've stayed there as well instead they built a bike that just didn't work it lost all appeal for what it started out as the crf450r and had no ability to adequately do what they morphed it into.
and i wouldn't say i hate it, it doesn't even warrant that kind of emotion it's just irrelevant as a bike.
I like and I think it's a good bike to make some mods, it's a real dual sport, to make it as an adventure bike it's a different story, but that American guy John T prove it can be done.
But in Europe now only used, they didn't go further of the Euro 4 specs, the japonese don't care anymore, and the example is the Fantic with Yamaha engine street legal, and no more WR street legal...
Who is shopping for both the Africa Twin and the CRF450RL? The two bikes are aimed at two completely different classes of rider from different age groups and fitness categories looking for entirely different motorcycling experiences. Lengthy luggage-laden road tours (Alcan Highway) vs. shorter trips mostly offroad (BDR sections). One is a comfort-seeking rider, the other a performance-seeking rider. BMW GS bikes are better than the AT. The KTMs are better than the RL. John T. Young, while great, is an outlier.
the crf300 has terrible suspension, I recently rode it and it's worse than bad. 450 is a different league, more expensive but worth it, it's a pity it's not available in Europe.
Realistically the 690/701 platform is probably the best choice if your budget is high enough, if not, then get a DR650 and mod the shit out of it.
I would still love to see Honda make a 450 rally model but the unfortunate truth is that they probably never will because it will undercut the sales of the Africa Twin, the same thing is true for a factory 690 or 701 rally, it'll undercut the sales of the 890+ models. I think if Honda could get the service intervals lower, then they'd have a killer machine. KTM/Husky will always have the dark cloud of "bad reliability" hanging over their heads regardless of the truth. And with them beginning to outsource the manufacturing of even some of their premium models, a 450 Rally that is made in Japan would be incredibly appealing, and probably very competitive with the Kove 450 Rally. Honestly the Honda name alone would probably cause it to blow the Kove out of the water in terms of sales.
I think the most realistic hope would be a 490 Enduro R, and aftermarket if you want it to rally. Still would probably only happen if emissions killed the 690. Or maybe the new 390 won't be a heavy road piece of crap, and will compete with the 300 Rally. 😃
Its the service intervals that have killed this bike. I think if it was more like 6k then thats a really usable duel sport. I opted for the 701, which is epic, however, id love it to be 30kg lighter
Very interesting and Very informative thanks.
Unless you REALLY want to rip it off road, buy the rally and spend a few grand on it to make it fit your style. Then use the other few grand you saved to buy good riding gear. Just sayin.
Not even on the list. Husqvarna 501 is on my radar. Orange has to be the worst colour.