The Number One rule that my climbing instructors always said: You have to turn back as soon as things start to go wrong. They should Turn back the moment they realize they we're on the wrong trail.
Yes. They should have turned back when they realized they were on the wrong trail. They could have hiked the correct trail another day. The construction confused them. They should have cut their losses and just decided to have a fun day. There is also no way I would hike with a headache. That’s torture. I also wouldn’t hike by myself or let someone hike by themselves with a headache, but I get migraines. I can’t imagine letting someone hike with a headache in that terrain.
One characteristic of people whose personality is high in trait "openness", which includes adventurous explorative people such as hikers, is that they tend to be overly optimistic. That goes hand in hand with wanting new unknown experiences. If you believe things will go wrong then you wouldn't be so eager to explore. Trait "conscientiousness" combats this to some extent. Conscientious people are like doomsday preppers. They expect things to go wrong and want to prepare for it meticulously. They tend to overestimate both the likelihood of a worst case scenario happening, as well as the severity of what the worst case scenario could actually be. It's pretty clear that the people in this story are high openness and not high in conscientiousness. They didn't prep at all and ignored things going wrong time after time. Your advice is nice but only applies to people conscientious enough to heed it. And those are the people that don't need your advice in the first place. The people who need to smarten up are prevented from doing so by their distorted personality traits, which in these stories, is usually really high openness and lack of traits that would temper it.
I was told by my dehydrated hiking partner to go on without her. I refused. Had I separated from her and something bad happened to her, I don't know if I could live with myself
Good for you, and I would feel the same. I don't have any personal goals that are worth leaving a friend, or even someone I know like that. It's not like you are able to put someone in a taxi and send them safely home! :C
Rule number 1: Don't leave your hiking partner. Rule number 2: If you're thinking it will be okay to leave your hiking partner, refer to rule number 1.
My dad raised us hiking in the Sandia Mountains. He always ALWAYS said to turn back long before you hit the exhausted state, because what you go up, you must walk back down. Never get seperated. The only time you push yourself is in an emergency and then you pick a direction and KEEP GOING no matter what.
Man. This case has always haunted me. I live in Colorado and hiked that area in 1995. Over the years I've hiked with people that were not able to continue on and I did not hesitate to abort the hike and turn around. The mountains will always be there for another day. Never ever separate, have plenty of gear and turn around if necessary...
Its likely BOTH hikers got foggy brain from hiking at high altitude. That’s when the stick together plan got mushy and things can quickly go mortally wrong:( Experienced hikers train for high altitude and/or hike in groups who stick together. Hubby and I had experience once at twilight hiking beautiful Mtn Division huts near Vail Pass Colo and we were rushing to get back b4 dark, at high altitude we misread our maps w fuzzy brain! Luckily we found our way down back to our car b4 pitch dark. We shd’ve departed earlier/ hiked w more experienced hikers.
I've been in that situation numerous times over the decades, even had a job guiding inexperienced hikers in moderately challenging areas for few seasons, and agree separating raises risks but doing so can be manageable if they stay on a substantial trail or better yet just find a comfortable place to wait on the trail for the group to return, but that is assuming they have water and aren't ill. However directing an inexperienced hiker who is out of water and possibly suffering from the altitude to bushwhack across high elevation terrain they don't know to meet on a trail they've never seen is beyond reckless.
Eric knew she was exhausted, inexperienced and poorly equipped, he never should have left her alone no matter what she said. On failing to do that he should have told her to stay where she was and he would come back and get her and then go down together, not tell her to make her way alone across a boulder field to find another trail on an unknown mountain
See, that indicates how Ill Equipped HE was to guide someone up the mountain. This was one 'fairly' experienced hiker, guiding a rookie. One of the most dangerous people on earth, are those who know some, but not enough. They don't know what to do in a crisis.
@@anonymike8280 Not in a Wilderness Situation , and especially NOT with an incapacitated person. All experts agree: you stay put. Get word to officials of your location, and do what you can to stay warm,... but in one place where you can be easily seen. He didn't contact authorities UNTIL AFTER she was missing. Rangers could have hiked up to bring her food and water, then guided her back down. They could have used a helicopter to fly her out, get IV fluids into her on the way to the hospital. The first thing he should have done was contact authorities, and advise them of the situation. See, that's what I mean: he didn't know enough about crisis situations to follow the protocols.
@@Objective-Observer You have a point. But how can you stay put when you have no means of communication and you are in a place where others are not likely to come by? In that case, your option is to retreat. In any case, the gist of my argument is that when you have a group, and a crisis comes up, the group has to act together. Or, if it is large enough, it can split up. But if it splits up, it has to split up in a rational and objective-oriented manner. There's a reason why a ship has a captain. I am not sure in that situation that Michelle Vanek should be thought of as having been incapacitated. She managed to get somewhere on her own. If the pair had returned the way they came, she would have survived and maybe even recovered without intervention. My sources say, carry a personal locator beacon and even a satellite phone. Myself, I stay away from the wilds and stay on the roads. Nature and hiking rails are not a neutral zone. I hate to say this, but your assessment is the product of bumper sticker reasoning. Using all caps impresses no one. I've worked as a newspaper reporter and I have an M.A. in English literature. Graduate students in liberal arts subjects do a lot of writing. I know of what I speak.
Something is not right at all with that and I believe he had in the past hiked this. Why didn’t he talk with her the night before and tell her everything she must take. She was inexperienced and such and disoriented. Why in the world would he let her out of his site. Any normal and understanding person would have stopped and the both of them would start heading back down. There are things not known that I believe he knows. Maybe he had an accomplice.Something is very wrong with this. If there was someone working with him. This person could have told her he would help her get back down but instead leading her estray. Her husband said there was nothing between them. But no one knows for sure. It doesn’t add up. I pray the truth finally comes out.
A team of friends that I was leading were within 50 feet of the summit of a 12,000 ft mountain with only one fairly easy belay left. Two of the four team members were not confident enough to take the steep snow slope and wanted to turn around while one member wanted to continue. I forced us to all turn around. I still haven’t summited this mountain - someday. Never leave anyone behind without someone to help them - we literally saw teams leaving guys with likely cases of HAPE or HACE at camps on Denali because staying with them would prevent them from summiting. No mountain is worth the life of you or your friends.
Exactly! This is the kind of attitude that experience brings. Every step on a mountain is borrowed, groups need to be willing to turn around, together with no questions asked. If a climber’s attitude is that they will summit no matter what, the risk of catastrophe increases. This is because they will push themselves past exhaustion past good decision-making, past dehydration, etc etc. until they are more prone to making a mistake or having a fall. In the mountains, especially very tall and steep mountains, one mistake or one mishap is often the difference between surviving and death.
It depends... If you're this close, and a summit is within the abilities of some members of the group and and outside the abilities of other members, I don't see a problem in splitting if the less able group members use the time to rest for a while. In fact: the question from my perspective would not be about splitting up (is it really splitting up, if the summit is just 50ft away?), but about the safety of the last stretch. If some members of the group find a stretch too dangerous, is it really within the abilities of the others or have they fallen victim of gethereitus? And as a side note: it is always difficult to interpret videos like this, as we only watch the examples where it went wrong on RUclips.
@@stefangr1 Well, @jimmysmith8231 was very clear about the situation: he would have had to leave two people alone who were less experienced than himself and who were not confident enough to go on, without anyone experienced enough to stay with them. It definitely is your responsibility as a group leader to never do that, not even for the ten minutes or so that might have been sufficient to bring the other group member to the summit and back. What Jimmy did was exactly the kind of responsible behaviour that i have been taught in my own group leader courses in the Alpine Club, and i believe it is what is universally taught. Speculating whether the one group member who wanted to go on was actually capable enough is really beside the point here. It's the totally normal job of a group leader to judge whether they, as the group leader, can guarantee the safety of every group member (in this case, using a climbing rope in the proper way) even if a group member should happen to make some mistake. Of course, the group leader must also make sure to not lead group members into situations where they are utterly out of their depth. There isn't the slightest indication that @jimmysmith8231 neglected any of these responsibilities - to the contrary, him saying that he judged the final belay as "fairly easy" indicates that he did his due diligence and properly compared the difficulty of the climb to the capabilities of the group ahead of time. To get back to the Holy Cross case, deciding to go on after hiking into the wrong trail was obviously a massive case of irresponsibility; the only sane option would have been to turn back, go home, and postpone the hike to another day. At the point where the two separated, the only sane option would obviously have been for the more experienced hiker to focus on safely getting the less experienced one down from the mountain, by the easiest and fastest way possible, and doing nothing except what is strictly required for that goal.
I disagree - leaving two less experienced team members for the ambitions of one is not a good idea. While 50’ may seem to be no bid deal, I have seen people take a long, long time to climb a similar distance.
I'll never forget Anne Marie Potton who took a daytrip to the Peak of Whistler Mountain in late fall back in the early '90s, I think. Its a very busy chairlift access tourist attraction, easy road out to Roundhouse Lodge. This young lady disappeared with no trace that day. A light snow fell in higher elevation that night. All searches were futile, the entire mountain was combed. RCMP were suspicious of foul play. The winter came and went, and in late spring, a lifty noticed raven activity a few meters down the glacier side of the peak, (and when I say glacier - its a tiny one, barely anything left of it at all). They had found her. The poor girl had attempted to climb down the glacier for her return hike very late in the day - which was a very bad idea. She fell, then slipped into a very small crevasse, broke her leg. She was covered, and hidden all Winter by the skiff that fell the night she disappeared. This story just confirms that the mountains can kill you whenever they want, and can hide you where no one will ever find you in ten seconds flat.
Agree with most of these comments! Solid video. Was he saying ' Altitude' with an accent,not familiar with it? Sounded like 'All-ti-....' . Was it just me?
Decide on a turnaround trigger before you start. For example, if we aren't at summit by X time or we aren't at this landmark by Y time automatic turnaround. And remember when calculating your turnaround trigger to factor how much time and energy you're going to need to have in the tank to get back to the trailhead.
Time is SO mision-critical, as is basic orienteering. Before approach, they should have realized the trail mistake within a few miles. VERY "inexperienced" and uneducated mistake. Trails aren't sidewalks, and these parks aren't suburbia.
Hiking the Appalachian trail a very red faced, disoriented and confused young woman passed US as WE rested. Something told me to talk to her and WE could all see she needed help. Water, shade and snacks helped. Her group finally caught up to her about 2 hours later. I will always feel like WE saved that person's life. Update: so many people replied that I want to say thank you. I was not alone and I'm not sure she would have stopped had I been. It was our GROUP that convinced her to just sit in the shade and share a cool drink and relax, together WE would figure things out. ✌️🌎🌍🌏💚
I was stricken with altitude sickness skiing at around 10,000'. I was not acclimated to the altitude at the time and dehydrated from heavy drinking. Going from sea level on the East Coast to the peaks of Utah within 24 hours was a huge mistake. Adding in heavy drinking and dehydration to the equation; a total rookie and careless mistake. It was the best day ever with fresh powder, low winds, and falling snow. I was halfway through my run when I noticed a pretty bad cramp in my right calf, then my left. Next thing I know, the cramps had creeped up my legs into my arms, and my head was pounding and I was disoriented and confused. My whole body was shutting down, so I got to the base as quickly as possible and tore off my boots. That was the last controlled movement I made. I sat like a statue, barely able to make a sound. Tears streamed down my face from the pain and frustration of being paralyzed. People were all around me, but no one noticed that I was in trouble because I couldn't alert them. I sat alone for 2 hours before a guy noticed that I hadn't moved in a while and he asked me if I was ok. I could barely whisper to him that I couldn't move. Fear for my life flashed across his face and he immediately alerted ski patrol who rushed me to the hospital to deliver oxygen to my lungs and brain and get me out of the altitude danger zone. My point is, altitude sickness is nothing to toy with. It's possible that Michelle could hear people calling out to her, but altitude sickness impairment restrained her ability to call back. RIP, Michelle.
Thank you for your explanation, I had no idea that one could be so severely affected, and by the sounds of things a lot of experienced hikers have never been affected by altitude sickness either. To understand it like you have told, will prepare anyone for the worst possible outcome, and hopefully save lives in future. Maybe hikers should all be made to take a safety course, before hiking up mountains, in a similar way that skippers are licenced to operate vessels at sea. Thank you.
@@bikeforsale7205 You're so right. I was naive to altitude sickness and had never experienced anything outside of light-headedness prior to this situation. To be honest, even when the paralysis hit me, I still didn't know it was altitude sickness. You raise such an excellent point about education. At the very least, there should be signs located on trails and maybe even at western airports bulleting the symptoms, risks, and what to do. The 2 hours I sat alone, but with people buzzing all around me, but not paying attention to me, was a bad situation in the sense I could have died then. Thankfully, that nice guy took notice and knew what was wrong even when I didn't. I may have had a much different outcome had I skied deeper in the back country that day.
Altitude sickness sounds similar to nitrogen narcosis. Have you ever done scuba diving in the ocean? If you go too deep, too quick, then you can become really badly affected by too much nitrogen in your blood. This can be very dangerous as you would normally be 20 - 30 meters deep, with impaired judgement and reasoning., comparible to your experience.
I’m not buying any of it . After 18 years that boot had probably been dragged from pillar to post by numerous animals. I doubt its location has any relevance to where her body is located. There’s too many questions that can’t be answered that should be answered. She had never been there before. She was completely unprepared for this kind of hike. Her experienced partner didn’t even ensure that she had the proper supplies required for this kind of hike. In fact, he knew she didn’t and took her anyway. He obviously didn’t care! She was feeling cruddy before they even left with probable altitude sickness, yet he took her anyway. Any experienced hiker would have called off the hike immediately, and opted for a hike she was more comfortable with and more prepared for. And then there’s all the really sketchy stuff. When she started feeling like she couldn’t go on any longer why would he just leave her alone in very unfamiliar wilderness territory? Why would he not have them both relax for a bit, have a bite and then turn around and go back? Or if it’s absolutely imperative (it’s not) that he summit the mountain why wouldn’t he just tell her to stay right where she was and he’d summit and be right back? Why send her on her way instead of safely hiking out together? Why would any hiker tell a novice hiker who’d never been there before to hike out on her own? On a trail she’d never been on before? In a direction she hadn’t come from? All while feeling sick and disoriented, without any overnight camping gear, and without enough, if any, food and water? Why would any hiker, experienced or not, point a sick and unprepared FRIEND into the thick wilderness and just send her on her way like that? By herself? So I’m not buying any of it. I don’t care where they found that boot. After 18 years it could’ve legitimately ended up in Mexico! It proves absolutely nothing. Any search and rescue crew would tell you that animals will move every and any part of a body and its clothing from the original site. And the longer the time passes the farther and farther away from the original site the items become. So why anyone is attributing any importance to the location of this boot in relationship to where she ended up is beyond me. I think her friend is good for this. There’s too many screwed up things that any hiker on the planet at any level of experience would ever do. No experienced hiker would’ve ever done any of the things this guy did. And no friend would’ve done them either. I have my own theory and suspicion about what happened, but I’ll keep it to myself. But there’s no way any of what he says occurred actually occurred. As a woman whose hiked enough I can tell you that there’s absolutely no way on the planet that if I’m feeling sick and disoriented, and I don’t have any overnight gear, and barely any food or water that you’re pointing me off in some unknown direction in the middle of nowhere with no one around and telling me to make my own way back. No way!! And if anyone has made this “friend” feel really uncomfortable over the last 20 years I’m glad! Keep doing it. It may be the only way you’re going to get to the truth.
As someone who grew up in Colorado specifically a mountain town the rule hiking or going anywhere in the woods was never leave the group or anyone behind we came up together we are coming down together. If we take 50 breaks on the way down but we all get home then we take 50 breaks
My father is from a mountain town and both he and his parents have instilled in me and my brothers utmost respect for the mountains. Even otherwise low mountain terrain can be very dangerous for people, let alone a single person struggling already with fatigue. I cannot believe her partner agreed to leave her alone.
I grew up in Colorado and still live there. I've spent many hours alone in the mountains below and above timberline. Injury is really the only thing I ever worried about. Almost all the places I went had a register at the trail head where you could sign in so others would know if you did not return by the date you expected to. I once helped a man that was going to climb the north face of Blanca Peak. He was stuck in the road and my friend and I helped him get his car out of the way. Two weeks later I was on the zig zag trail into the South Huerfano and saw someone below me walking up the road. I looked through my binos and saw the same man. He was dressed in white shirt, black slacks and dress shoes carrying two suit cases. A week later the rescue squad found him dead on the north face of the peak. That face is 2200 feet basically vertical. I believe he was number 19 of the folks that have died there. Don't mess with mother nature.
You say it was too late to turn back, it's never too late to turn back. As long as you have breath in your lungs and your legs are working it's never to late to turn back. - that's where their real mistake was, is once they realized on the wrong trail they didn't immediately turn back. - and as far as calling that guy experienced, obviously he was not experienced at all, number one rule is you never separate from you buddy or make on the fly adjustments to your planned route. Again mistake #1 didn't turn back immediately once realizing on WRONG trail. #2 separated from buddy, while buddy has already made the statement they can not continue, if they can not continue then neither can you because you can't leave your buddy.... but even worse is the reasons he stated she couldn't continue wasnt because she sprained an ankle... no it was from altitude sickness..... any experienced hiker knows anyone suffering from altitude sickness is not in their right frame of mind. You DONT LEAVE THEM ALONE AND YOUR #1 PRIORITY IS TO GET THEM DOWN AS QUCKLY AS SAFELY POSSIBLE. Experienced my butt. Knew just enough to get her into some serious trouble, costing her the ultimate price.
He said it was too late to turn around and and still reach the summit, which it was. And being experienced doesn't mean you always make wise decisions.
Yeah...the idea that they were "already on the trail" so they did not want to turn back is on BOTH hikers. Ego's kill people every moment of every single day.
@@cbrashsorensen Yeah, the woman who was suffering from altitude sickness and dehydration (your man Kyle left that out) was CLEARLY in a position to make rational decisions.
@@AdelicowsEXACTLY my thought. You can be very experienced but still stupid but had incredible luck escaping a tragity. Sounds nonsensible but in my profession its seen all the time. Time nor frequency doesnt make you good. Being good at what you do makes you good. Talking to people who have been along for the ride can give input on a persons behavior. If they tend to be reckless and violate the basics thats a giant red flag. And guaranteed, you'll be at the bottom of his priority list.
He mentions that there were signs that the high altitude was affecting her at ~ 8:35 time point. He mentions it again at ~ 10:03 after also previously mentioning that she was out of water, etc., at that point.
I read a newspaper article on this story that said the construction in the parking lot had porta pots set up in front of the easier trail entrance so it wasn't easy to spot from the parking lot if you didn't know where it was because all you would notice is porta pots. Also the guy who was mentioned at the end of the video also said that the rock field she was crossing has areas of run off before it meets the main easier trail that can look like a trail down if you aren't familiar with the main trail. He thinks that's probably what happened with her that she may have thought she found the trail and followed it down. Splitting up was obviously a huge mistake, but at worst as the experienced hiker of the group, he should have told her to stay there and he'd come back down after summitting and then they would both go across the rock field to the other trail together. I can't believe he would tell a novice hiker to leave an established trail and cross a long rock field to find another trail that neither one of them were familiar with. Such a heartbreaking story.
Yeah,I feel he bares some responsibility here. He was the experienced one and should have known better than to just let her go it alone. Such a shame,that one bad decision cost this lady her life
Yeah I agree, she was sick anyways, why not just have her relax for a few minutes so she would be ready to go down when he got back. He was obviously not that experienced if he didn't know better.
She should have just sat down, let him summit, then he could have come back to her and they could have hiked off together. Sounds like both of them were inexperienced Hikers.
The thing about summits... people get fixated on it. Its no good to reach a summit dead exhausted/broken and requiring a helo or strapping ranger to carry you down. Personally in my hiking experience I've had to turn back from summits before. It sucks to have to give in to your body but once you start taking a rest stop every 3 steps it's time to turn back and focus on your conditioning. Seen a lot of people ditch their partners who are flagging so they can get the summit. It's a dirty deal.
Echoing the thought that it was never too late to turn around together. It's only a ~2 hour drive from Denver, and the mountain will always be there. My husband took a coworker hiking at Vesper Peak in WA one day, and they couldn't find the summit due to extremely limited visibility. His coworker wanted to push on, but my husband, the more experienced hiker, refused. They turned around together that day, and returned a couple weeks later for a successful attempt. Don't separate from your original party, yall. These kinds of stories are sad :(
Vesper? I've climbed that several times. You should look up the case of missing hiker Sam Sayers - never found, creepy. It actually inspired me to finally volunteer for Search and Rescue.
@@ohsweetmystery At the point where they realized they were on the wrong trail - absolutely. Turn around and go home was a no-brainer at that point. However, situations do exist where it actually is too late to turn around - even though getting into such a situation usually means you have already made a long series of mistakes before reaching that point. For example, at the point where they finally separated, it actually *was* too late for turning back. If she was unable to make it up the last 300 ft, she was definitely much too weak to make it back all the very long way they had come, which included multiple ascents and descents of smaller summits along the crest they had followed. Judging from the map, by that point, going on was actually the only chance to get her off the mountain - either via the summit or via the western flank of the mountain, then down the northern ridge. It's hard to judge from only the map which one would have been easier and/or safer, summit or flank, but by that point, it had to be either one or the other. Actually, turning back *way* before the point where turning back is no longer an option is one among the various major principles of risk management...
My brother was a sheriff’s deputy and lead search and rescuer. I’m talking rappelling out of helicopters into swollen rivers search and rescue. When he was first married and prior to children, he and his wife went hiking with a couple who were friends of a friend. They swore to my brother they were experienced hikers, as my brother and sister in law were. They lied. They had a route planned where they would split up as 2 couples and go to two different vantage points. That was planned prior to the hike beginning and the other couple swore they were experienced. The day of the hike they set off as planned, but night came on and they were still missing, they should have met up 4 hours prior to dusk. My brother had to make his wife remain in place and if they weren’t back in 2 hours, she was to go for help. My brother somehow found the couple, completely lost, and made it safely back. Once down the mountain, my brother let them know how dangerous the situation has been and cut off all future contact. People often make stupid decisions that do not aid their continued survival.
Your anecdote might be relevant if that's what happened in this case. Eric Sawyer knew Michelle Varner had minimal high-altitude experience. Eric had climbed 38 of the 58 fourteeners, including Mount of the Holy Cross. He wasn't just her partner, he was her guide. He abandoned her in his quest to get to the summit, and she died. Her mistake was trusting him.
@benhurn8277 I don't think they care about your opinion, Mr. Personal Responsibility. The people involved in the search for her, most of whom were volunteers, certainly don't. Michelle Vanek wasn't a "thrill seeker." She was a triathlete and a marathon runner who wanted to try something new. She wasn't going for Everest, ffs. Eric Sawyer, a longtime friend of the family, wasn't just her partner, he was her guide. He'd climbed 38 of the 58 fourteeners, including Mount of the Holy Cross. He ignored every sign of her distress in his pursuit of the summit and abandoned her. She died as a result. Her mistake was trusting someone who didn't value her life.
There are thousands of very experienced hikers that have never been near a mountain, much less climbed it or one or its skirts. People overestimate their skill levels all the time and drown, die on the side of a mountain from various reasons, or dehydrate in the desert. I wish they would be more honest with themselves or their guides, but its a common human weakness.
The mountains will always be there, don’t hesitate to turn around, especially if you have hikers who are not as strong as you are. Don’t ever separate, especially with inexperienced people. It’s a truly sad story.
Yeah, Eric telling her to "cut across" the mountain to get on the easier trail was just unbelievably stupid. These are two people who couldn't even find the right trailhead out of 2 options while in the parking lot. I think they where both suffering from altitude sickness 😮
This kid does a great job. He really seems to study and prepare before his stories. He remains pretty neutral which is always great. He's a decent, cogent storyteller. Give him a listen and maybe subscribe. I did, and have. I'm probably a picky, contrarian scrooge truth be known but I thoroughly enjoy his channel.
As a person who has been wrongly accused by cops on two separate occasions, let me make it clear that if they suspect you, they really *want* you to be the person who’s guilty
I have backpackers and mountaineering for over 50 years. The number one consideration is knowing the experience and competence of your team members. If you know that everyone is very experienced and has proper gear, splitting up is usually not a problem in easier circumstances. I have done it many times, and my friends do not worry if I split off. I have also done this activity solo. When mountaineering, I would only split up if someone wants to stop and wait for the return. Not a problem unless the person is in distress. You never split up and leave someone in distress alone. The rules change if you bring along inexperienced people. You never split up and leave them alone. I have turned around many times when an inexperienced person wants to stop and go down. It's what you must expect when you bring them along. This jerk split up with an inexperienced and ailing companion.
I agree he is a jerk. They literally started the climb w her having a headache. Then they failed to turn back when they realized they were on the difficult path. I hope this guy lives w massive guilt.
Great input and I agree. I'd like to add, Eric's friend may have stated, "he hasn't a malicious bone in his body", but Eric's actions toward an ailing friend were those of a thoughtless, self-centered fool.
Please, please, be self-reliant, personally engaged and stop looking for mommy and daddy’s hands. Be adult. Be real. Take FULL responsibility for yourself. That’s a superb place to start before expecting another to cover your ass. It’s a established hiking trail. Not a black forest with werewolves.
My friend’s 22 year old son will be hiking the Appalachian trail in March. He’s never hiked before and I’m worried for him more than my friend. She just brushes it off and says ‘he’ll be fine’! However, I’m hearing more and more about hikers being harmed from foul play.
The first signs of altitude sickness that I have experienced first hand is a head ache that only gets worse the longer you remain at that altitude. My limit is 7500 feet approximately and the moment that I descended about a thousand feet, the head ache vanished. Most experience Altitude sickness at over 8 thousand feet. Altitude sickness can cause death and people don't realize how serious this can be. Symptoms: Headache, vomiting, feeling tired, trouble sleeping, dizziness, and more serious complications can include High-altitude pulmonary edema, high-altitude cerebral edema. People who shrug this off can be in for a serious life threatening problem and degree of fitness has really nothing to do with it. The cause is the rapid decrease in oxygen due to rapid decrease in oxygen levels. Ascending more slowly may help some people but car drives into the mountains are pretty rapid ascents. I am a firm believer that as a hiker my first responsibility is to the people that I am hiking with or others on the trail that may need help. The hike becomes secondary at that point and should for all. So, the man hiking with her should have never left her and assumed that she could begin descending alone. And being that this was her first time climbing, I believe that should have ended the conversation about him continuing. Safety should always be number one. It is sad but he will have to live with this. It is sadly common today for people to leave others on the mountain that are slower hikers. I have experienced that myself on at least one occasion and it was not a good feeling being left 3 miles into the back country that is Grizzly bear country is not a good feeling. I would say, pick hiking partners wisely!!
When my husband and I got married his brother lived in Golden Colorado and we took our honeymoon there. The 2nd day there, we camped on Mt. Princeton (a 14er) @ about 10 thousand feet elevation, we got up the next morning and started out. We made it within 100 ft of the summit and I quit….. So I stayed back on a huge mass of boulders while the group went on up. It was right on the trail up and back so everyone passed right by me. I did get very nervous because it seemed like everyone has passed going down, except my husband, his brother and a couple more people. So I was thinking I’d have to head down by myself. Finally they did arrive and I swore than that I’d never part ways from the group again. Sorry this happened.
You did the right thing, the rest of the group did not! I can’t believe that even you’re husband let you stay there alone. Are you still married to him?
Reaching the top was not that important. Before you got to the boot, my first thought was that she fell from a great height stumbling alone and sick in the dark. My second thought was that a misleader wasted a bunch of resources on a wild goose chase based on a huge assumption about which way she went. My third thought was if her friend knew she was physically struggling at that height, he needed to abandon whatever he was doing to walk her down that mountain as soon as she started struggling. He may not have had a malicious bone, but he certainly had some selfish ones.
So sorry for what Michelle had gone through in her last days, terrifying 😔 Her four kids must have gone through hell not knowing what has happened to her for such a long time 😥
@@itchysheets1222 Exactly! But you hear it all the time when parents wind up dead after participating in high-risk activities for whatever recognition from others they can get out of it because I'm quire sure, most of these high-risk takers wouldn't do it if they were the last people on the planet. I found it really disturbing that all a lot of people cared about after the recent death of a YT "star" who crashed and burned while performing his jet suit stunt (not to mention he filmed his demise) was all about him and I had to search through some 15 articles into the story, just to find out if he'd left any children behind. They were more of an after-thought w/only general condolences to his "loved ones" while everyone sang the father's praises as an awesome high-risk star even though he left four children behind to suffer the loss of their father who was busy trying to set records and make a name for himself.
@@isabellind1292 wow that was such a good point! that makes me sick. Women do stuff like this too, but I will say, especially for shitty partners who are men-not much changes for them once they become a father-unlike for the mother. So they just keep on living their same life, never even realizing there’s so much more to a deeper connection to your children. They are you. And you are everything to them. Your choices in life have to reflect that. Or you’re just a shitty person, not even a parent.
@@itchysheets1222 But these women know what they sign up for when they knowingly marry risk-takers or whatever their partner's passions in life are. They both make the choice whether or not their children will be their priorities or not and it's completely irresponsible to have a child if either party doesn't want to put their children's needs above theirs. It's a deal breaker! I doubt it's any consolation to a child that their parent wasn't in their life for all the milestones when people say "Yeah but at least they died doing what they loved to do!" I'm sure your children would feel very safe and secure knowing they are your priority!💓🌺
I got left in my group of friend's dust in the Porkies a few years back. It was starting to get dark, and I was unable to continue without help. I came to a fork in the trail and wasn't sure where to go, so luckily I turned back to a clearing to make camp if necessary. My friend showed up about 5 minutes later. He was yelling my name, but in the undulating terrain, I didn't hear him until he crested the adjacent hill to me. He carried my pack for me and led me to our campsite a full 2 miles farther. I was angry with them, but at the same time, I knew they'd be looking for me. Had I taken the wrong turn, I might have been on one of these videos.
You've ALWAYS got to think of what could go wrong. ALWAYS. It's good you're aware of this now. It will help your survival in everyday life, as well as in hiking.
As an experianced hiker that has taken my fair share of novices out for their first real backcountry eperiance, I feel that one way or another much of the blame falls on Eric for sending her off on her own. In this situation, an individule will minimal hiking expereiance, fatigued, and possibly suffering the affects of altitude should have been escortd down. The summit will be ther another day. Regardless of what she said, there is no way he should have left her. Man up Eric accept some responsability for what ever happened after you sepatated.
👏 Same sentiment as never leaving the slowest hiker at the back 😤 achieving your “goal” of distance etc is not as important as the lives of others around you
1000 percent agree. I feel that was some crazy neglect. I think he is responsible and I think the national park system needs to hold people accountable when they take someone else hiking?? He made her go further when he should’ve taken her back. He was fine so he didn’t care about her he cared about reaching the top.
Yes. And why, pray tell, did he not check on her supplies, water, food, emergency back up gear and rations? He should have done this from the get go. Something is just not right for him to be so careless about a novice "friend".
How tragic. I am not a hiker but I am somewhat a survivalist. I cannot imagine undertaking any trek like this without some form of shelter and minimal survival gear...ounces be damned.
@@TheQueenOfSheba Indeed. They even have them now where they are a tube tent.. My guess is, one would be willing to pay $10,000 for a can of Sterno and an emergency blanket if stranded those conditions. I almost froze to death when I was young. Had I not carried my one burner in my hunting pack, I would have.
If you’re a survivalist, better become a hiker. Sometimes your survival depends on the ability to move fast, with all your survivsl stuff on your back.
Buying items light enough to successfully carry on a long high altitude extreme uphill day hike adds a huge financial burden. Many people literally can't carry enough stuff if they have to carry cheap (heavy) gear
@@no_peace A survival mylar tube tent cost $20. A survival blanket cost less than a dollar and a survival sleeping bag cost $14 and weighs 2 oz. A Sterno Wick 6 hour canned heat is $4.00 and weighs 11.5 oz. For less than $35 and approx. 13 oz. you get to live. Sounds like a bargain to me. Secondly, if you cannot afford to properly and safely equip yourself you should not embark on a mountaineering adventure.
That Eric dude ...smh.....he was experienced and should have never left her out there on her own. In fact, they should have turned around as soon as they realized they went the wrong way!!
I'm always amazed that there are so many people who will volunteer to hike up mountains or other treacherous terrain or places. It's such a show of humanity to use your skills and experience to help. They deserve all the respect and gratitude they can get.
We have a tram and it froze up on the tracks a couple years ago. Those people were stuck hundreds of feet up in the air and a team hiked up the mountain, climbed the tram tower, rappelled out onto the cables, and helped everyone down out of the car in extremely cold winter weather.
@@leelaural No. From practical experience, on a mountain hike, the majority of people who are exhausted and don't want to go on say stupid things like "go on, i will wait here, i shall be just fine" - it's a fundamental thing you have to learn as a group leader to *never* give in to that, no matter how much the exhausted group member begs you. Really, mountain safety 101. 😞
Its never to late to turn around, attitude sickness is like being drunk and leads to confusion and bad decisions. Never ever split up with your hiking party!
Turn around!! Summit fever kills more climbers than just about anything. In 2003, a friend and I were climbing Devils Tower in Wyoming. He was one move from the top, but had mistakenly taken the wrong route on the last pitch. He tried to do the move to get to the final anchor but was too tired after climbing over 800 feet, and to add to that, the protection was not very good at this point in the climb. We decided to forget the summit and just come back another day. We rappelled back down and took the next day off to rest. The following day, we started an hour earlier, took more food and water and less equipment, and made it to the summit without any problems. My friend beat himself up for years thinking he had failed me, because he didn't get to the summit on the first try, but he had actually shown great leadership by making the correct decision considering the circumstances, and probably kept us from needing rescue at almost 800 feet on the side of that tower.
Kyle, I really like your conversational style, your research of the cases, and lack of dramatic music on your videos. I hike a lot, mostly alone, and I have been drawn to these stories over the years. It seems that no matter how much I already knew about a particular incident, you add valuable insight and information to the story.
A couple & their baby & dog died in Calif from dehydration. Dog couldve gone to a stream to get water yet loyal to the very end. They didnt even bring enough water for 1 person I believe. They even dropped their fob on the trail so if they got to the vehicle even...😢
Our first 14er attempt in Colorado was Mt of the Holy Cross. We totally missed the trailhead. Did a bit of bushwacking and then decided that was enough fun for one day. Pretty sure we made the exact same mistake. We enjoy bushwhacking so it was nothing that gave us any concern. But, there is not a mountain in Colorado that is safe for inexperienced hikers. I have never gone back. My husband did several years later. I've personally had some bad experiences in the mountains of Colorado. That could have turned out very badly. I thank my Guardian Angel for keeping me safe. Not going to be able to finish watching this. This hits too close to home for me. So very sad that her hiking partner had such little care for her or her safety.
We have many of these same concerns here in the beautiful but treacherous alpine region of northern Delaware. BTW, ^the image at 11:20 in this video is actually stock footage of north Wilmington De. Our highest peak is Iron Hill, which reaches the lofty heights of well over 9,900(centimeters)! Yes, supplemental O2 is mandatory. 😁
Mt. Democrat isn't bad at all (for a Colorado 14er), but I still got a headache when I climbed it as a teen. Now I just prefer to enjoy the views of Colorado's highest peaks from alpine meadows & beautiful mountain lakes.
All of the 14ers are fairly easy hikes, I've hiked much more difficult trails on the east coast for sure. But, once the weather turns or you veer off trail, all bets are off. If you are unprepared with food or water, do not know how to recognize the early signs of altitude sickness or did not bring anything for staying overnight, you are pretty much screwed and every single 14er can turn deadly.
Kyle, this story is worth considering: (2014) Human remains discovered near Middle Anthracite Creek have been identified as missing hiker Sherri O. Ahlbrandt of Littleton, Colo. Ahlbrandt was reported missing in August after hiking in the Oh Be Joyful/Daisy Pass area. There had been no signs of the 54-year-old woman until last week, when a hunting party delivered some of her belongings to the Mt. Crested Butte Police. She separated from her group in a cold fog up an easy trail (Lived there then) because they were all exhausted... so she decided to quickly bag the top off the pass. Raining, foggy, cold... she literally got turned around and went off the other side / the wrong side of the trail. Hunters found her remains far, far away from the pass, in a very desolate area between Crested Butte and Marble, Colorado.
It is good to have a goal, but it is not good to be obsessed with achieving it, especially when you put your life, or the life of others, in danger. What a sad end for a wife and mother. And for so many years, without a physical clue. I am glad they found the boot. May her family be at peace.
can concur altitude sickness. I climbed a Rocky Mountain peak, but could not summit. I was within sight of the summit. The altitude sickness was a powerful adverse influence.
@@sabrinatscha2554confusion, headache, shortness of breath, lethargy, bad decision making, lack of urgency or inability to understand you're in danger. Sometimes migraine. Tourists tend to sit on the trail and illogically insist they're going to rest. The best thing you can do is get that person downhill. At very high elevation you can get HACE or HAPE and have a brain or lung embolism.
@@sabrinatscha2554 symptoms are headache, nausea, general fatigue, dizziness, sometimes trouble seeing clearly, and a general unwell feeling. I had altitude sickness when I drove from Illinois up into a Colorado ski town. It also makes it hard to sleep and recover and is just generally not fun. It's your body freaking out because it doesn't have as much oxygen as it's used to.
5:55 another big takeaway is that it is never too late to turn around. If a route is too difficult, too hard to follow, or you’re just not feeling up to the challenge-for any reason, it is _always_ acceptable to turn around. It is so much better to bail on a goal in the attempt and be able to come back another day than to die (or even have an harrowing trip, or need to be rescued) trying to meet that goal.
It has never occurred to me before that any of the old shoes or boots I've seen out in remote places in the mountains might be connected with a missing hiker. So I learned something here.
I always wonder where they're from and how they got there, and I've seen A LOT of shoes, mostly just one of a pair, occasionally the pair. All sizes and types.
If it were me, I'd take a picture and pull up the GPS coordinates off my phone or Garmin menu, or add a pin on your mapping app. Couldn't hurt to message whatever park authority.
@@lh3540 Yeah, probably a good idea to mark the spots and report, just in case. You'd think there would be more publicity about missing hikers, but around here anyway, there isn't.
Well in this case the point might have been the trail they were supposed to be on that they could connect with at the summit (that was less than a few hundred yards away) was WAY easier and shorter. They chose the vastly harder and longer trail initially.
Places where it can be too late to turn around: a circular route or a through route where you've already passed the halfway point and the terrain in front is not significantly worse than that behind you. Places where it's never too late to turn back: out and back hikes. 😅
Before GPS, my backpacking partner and I missed a branch in the trail. The 2-foot high trail sign marking the branch had rotted and fallen into the brush. Three miles later our trail faded into nothing. Luckily we found a stream that started at the lake we should have been headed for. Following that stream, we made it to our destination the hard way. On our way back, three days later, we found the broken trail sign. How easy that day would have been had that sign not fallen.
I find it hard to understand why her hiking partner Eric, knowing she was inexperienced & possibly suffering from altitude sickness, did not insist on accompanying her down the trail. After all he was an experienced hiker, who had climbed trails in this region before. He must have been aware as to how badly Michelle was suffering, that she was struggling to keep up with him & that there was the possibility that she wouldn't be able to make it down unaided. As the more experienced hiker, he should have turned around & gone back with her. I also don't understand as to why Eric didn't check that Michelle had brought enough water, food & the proper gear with her? It just seems really suspicious that Eric took a hiker who had no experience of hiking in high altitude on a trail that would be difficult for her, in a bad weather season. In my opinion, Eric is partially to blame for Michelle's death.
I’ve lead lots of individuals and groups on mountain climbs. At the trailhead BEFORE we head out I establish some rules. One is that we leave together, we hike/climb together and return together. Another is a turnaround time. And September on 14footers definitely requires a beefed up day pack.
There's literally no reason that Eric should have continued on. NO MATTER WHAT. Ditching your hiking partner (especially when they are not experienced) is unbelievable .
I don't think it's fair to blame just him. They both hold some responsibility, and honestly? I can see how in the moment they thought this was okay, even if it was a bad decision.
@@KyleHatesHikingI feel like there are many cases like this - but ended more happily. You always think nothing bad will happen, this land is full of hikers, and we are capable, and yatta yatta. Let this case be a lesson.
At the very least, he should have summitted and joined her right back where he left her, instead of trying to get her to navigate alone while sick. That's the part that annoys me.
I couldn't do what her friend did... 1) I'd make sure I had a minimum equipment list for any hiking buddy, especially considering she was completely inexperienced, I'd make it clear that without the equipment we'd not be doing the planned hike. Perhaps a much shorter easier hike to assess any hiking buddy's abilities,and it'd be a great introduction. 2) altitude sickness or not, Michelle was obviously not at 100%, so perhaps a short hike to assess how affected she was by it. 3) I wouldn't care what she said about carrying on the hike without her, I'd stop the hike and return with her. As the experienced 'leader' of the hike I'd feel responsible for my partner's safety, especially considering I let them proceed on the hike without appropriate equipment. Of course we've also had other fatalities and disappearances with the reverse outcome...the lead hiker going on ahead and disappearing. Hiking alone will always be more hazardous...
Agree. Why on earth would he tell her and why would she attempt to go back down alone? Why didnt she just stay in place and wait for him to return and they would go down together? It doesn't make sense to me. Just stay and wait, sit down.
@@halfdome4158 She wanted to cross to the other trail over the boulder field, while he was going to find the head of the second trail at the summit and meet her there. At least that was my understanding. Based on the location of the shoe, she didn't find that second trail.
@@halfdome4158 Even that would have been a very bad idea, almost as bad as what they did: (1) Up 300 ft and down again after a long day typically takes 30 minutes, or at least 20 minutes when you are really strong. Sitting in the cold alone at 13.700 ft altitude for half an hour without food, water, but with suspected altitude sickness? Really? (2) Waiting (even if they are not cold or in pain) generally makes people uncomfortable and sometimes causes them to do stupid things, especially when not feeling well, and in such a situation, which clearly already was an almost-emergency, it feels as if time is moving extremely slowly. People who actually manage to wait very often say afterwards: "I became more and more afraid and started to wonder whether something had happened to you and whether you would come back at all." Don't put someone into such a distressing position, ever. (3) The hike they originally intended was already a serious challenge given her experience. They did a much longer and more difficult hike already, so they were almost certainly massively behind schedule. So even if she had been perfectly fine, wasting yet another half hour might have been a bad idea - they still had to get down from the mountain before dark, and she was very clearly in a bad condition, so there was no knowing how long that might take. (4) From where they were, the shortest way down was actually *over the summit* (look at the map!). That's certainly no excuse for separating, but it does explain why Eric did not want to go to the summit and come back. The way back to her would have been 180° the opposite direction of where he had to go for going home, so one can kind of see how the idea of meeting up on the other side of the summit might have entered his head. Of course, it was still a stupid idea, and acting on it sheer madness.
As a Triple Crowner, I think the most important thing in the mountains is mitigating risks. In order to do that, you must educate yourself about such risks before such a trip. Skill sets such as map and compass are of utmost importance in the mountains but can be learned anywhere. Don't wait until you are lost to pull out the map, regularly check the map to verify your location and direction to prevent being lost. Self reliance is one of the joys of the mountains for me. I did not find this joy by always hiking with a partner. I studied routes I wanted to hike and learned the risks; avalanche, long waterless stretches, altitude sickness, snowfields... and planned accordingly. I also would not have left an inexperienced hiker to navigate cross country on a high rocky peak solo. Either turn around or tag peak and return to a waiting companion to lead them to safety. If you accept a partner, take responsibility for them, as they should for you. Pick a partner carefully for mountain adventure.
Shocking that adults could ever attempt a hike like this without adequate provisions or an emergency kit and knowledge for an unplanned overnight stay.
Hey Kyle. I've never been a hiker and at this point I'm barely a walker most days due to some wicked osteoarthritis in my lower back and neuropathy that makes me have intense, debilitating cramps in my legs if I walk too far. But I really enjoy your videos! I feel like you're taking me to places that would be impossible for me to go on my own. I'm like a vicarious hiker, I guess. You've got an engaging personality, a wealth of knowledge through experience, and you're funny as heck. I think a million subs is definitely an attainable goal! Can't wait to see you get there!
Haha love this! I hope your osteoarthritis and neuropathy doesnt get any worse from here on and i hope that you continue to have these amazing hiking experiences with kyle online❤
Don't leave your hiking buddy behind. Its called the buddy system for a reason. Stay with her, let here catch her breath and rest for a bit, then see if she wants to continue. It said he made it to the summit early so no rush. But, why even tell her to start back down if the summit was so close? If its so close tell her to stay put, rest, catch your breath or whatever. Absolutely no need to send her off.
A lot of people would rather risk disaster than spend 2 or 3 hundred bucks on a GPS. Also, thinking maps are optional is a mistake. A GPS with no maps in it can get you into as much trouble as get you out. I'm referring to today, not 20 yrs ago.
There have been a few cases of missing hikers being swallowed up by rockslides. One young woman was only discovered about 2-years later because her boot, with her foot still in it, was seen sticking out of a shale pile. That said, as soon as a hiking partner complains about a headache it is time to turn around and try another day with the requisite altitude adjustment time factored in. Even then, once you use up half your water it is time to turn around. There is no shame.
I can’t believe how experienced her friend is and let her go out with that little of fear AND let her go by herself when she was logistically and evidently dehydrated. You need the same amount if water to make it out as you hiked in with typically.
It’s pretty ambitious for experienced hikers to tackle those heights. You never know how your body will handle the altitude each time you go. Never separate, all go forward or all turn back.
I subscribed, in my youth I to was a avid hiker, I reached the summit of Mount Whitney, I hiked John Muir tail through the Sierra over several summers, it was surreal to sit where John Muir sat, and see with my own eyes what he described in his writings.
I was on a search and rescue team in Arizona for 10 years. During that time I have knowledge of several searches which were unsuccessful in finding lost hikers or bodies which were in fact well within the search area. The problem is that most of the volunteer searchers end up following the same trail as dozens of other searchers, usually because they do not have the necessary off-trail navigation skills. They do fine following the trail in front of them, but not so when off trail. As I looked at the map (20:12 in the video) I could immediately see that the Angelica couloir would be an enticing route for an inexperienced hiker to follow if she missed the trail. So I wonder why none of the hundreds of searchers went there? Surely some of the searchers had the necessary navigation skills to do that. Probably it would require an overnight bivouac and/or a helicopter drop-off to search that area.
You ALWAYS have enough time to turn around on a trail and go back down! Listen to your body, know your limits because even identical twins don't have the exact same body. If one wants to stop and go back down, you ALL go back down. In hiking, rock climbing, and spelunking, you NEVER go alone and you can always try again, but you can't if you're dead.
If you take someone with you, and you leave them behind, you are responsible for them. And what happens. Never ever leave anyone alone or let them do such things alone, experienced or not. Doesn’t matter if the laws support this… you should never think it’s okay to do this. Stay together.
As kids growing up in the Colorado mountains in the late '40's and 50's, we were taught never to go off into the woods by ourselves! Someone sure dropped the ball with her.
I read a number of comments about the fact that she said “go on without me; I’m heading back down”. And I agree 💯%. Imagine leaving someone you care about - in that terrain, in all that wilderness, a well conditioned athlete, and yet beaten by exhaustion and possibly mountain sickness - so that you can finish your goddamn hike! Put yourself in that position. It is unimaginable to me that I would say “are you sure? Okay, well 🤷🏻♂️… I’ll see you around”. Whether this guy killed or simply left her, his duplicity is only a matter of degrees. He has no doubt earned every measure of scorn and suspicion coming to him… throughout his life. That may sound harsh. But people with character simply do not leave their “wingman” for any reason.
I had a goal for years to do a trail outside of telluride. Finally made it happen last year on a solo trip. It was 3 lakes to get too moderately difficult 8miles with significant elevation gain. I came prepared with overnight supplies in case the worst happened even tho the plan was only a day hike. Once i got to the second lake i noticed clouds rolling in that were questionable. The trail itself wasnt super busy. The last stretch was less than a mile up but was all exposed. What did i do? Stopped enjoyed the scenery and told myself its okay that i didnt finish the trail id been planning and waiting to do for years. I appreciated the beauty and difficulty i had already seen. Ate my snack and took a long break, then TURNED AROUND and went back down to the trail head. My thoughts were not disappointment i didnt finish, but the adventure getting to that point. And that the mountain will always be there. It gave me a reason to come back and try again with a friend or my husband. Something to look forward to. My safety was more important than finishing to the ending point. I always play it safe vs "finishing" thats where soooo many ppl make this bad mistake. Always trust your gut. If its telling you dont do it or turn around. Do it. Dont ignore it. This is so sad for everyone involved. I hope the family finds closure one of these days.
This comment shoes you are a humble , intelligent woman and you have the ability to see the sunshine behind the clouds..(i just made that up. Lol😂)..but it's true...hood luck on your adventures moving forward
The bigger lesson than your BIG lesson, IMO is to turn around if you see you're on a trail too difficult for you. That seems to be the problem here, and where their lack of experience really shows: they couldn't bring themselves to turn around and leave their goal for another day.
I wish more “hiking influencers” showed themselves turning around when they felt like a trail was unsafe, or they weren’t feeling 100 per cent that day
I can't help but notice that the vast majority of all these hiking deaths and tragedies occur when someone is hiking alone. The old adage they taught us in Boy Scouts will save your life. Always hike with a buddy.
5:53 I think the biggest take away of far too many "adventures gone wrong" is "It's never too soon or too late to turn around" or "to turn back" or "to return to base" or what have you. There is always another day, another time to either go on that or a similar adventure.
Altitude Sickness is real and no joke. Healthy, hydrated, fit and relaxed did not prevent my experiencing altitude sickness. All it took was one step closer to 13,000 ft. to nearly pass out. The only warning was feeling a little tired. Retreating a couple of feet back made a world of a difference to feeling better and being conscious. Some members of my group kept hiking and one stayed with me. Hard lesson learned with the right companion!
I've heard about this one before, but I didn't know that one of her shoes had been found. At least there's maybe a bit of closure for her family and friends 😢 I'm of the mind tho that her hiking partner should not have left her, and should have just turned around at the point where she was lagging behind and he had to help her. Bagging a peak is not so important as your friend's life! The mountain isnt going anywhere, go back and try again when you're better prepared!
I had never heard stories of people mysteriously going missing while hiking prior to the last several years. Prior to hearing these stories, I would have told the person I was with go ahead and summit since he was so close and not worried that it. Now that I know how many people disappear while alone, I would insist on staying together.
This was a really challenging one to watch. The experienced hiking partner should feel sick and I'm sure he does. So many questions. How do you let someone go up the mountain ill prepared like that. The moment he realized she didn't have enough water or food for the round trip it's turn around time. The moment he realized she was feeling sick, it's turnaround time. The moment she was struggling to keep up, it's turn around time. And HOW do you leave someone like that. She has no food or water and can't go any further due to sickness and you not only leave her but tell her to wonder off to a "meeting place"? At the very least (and this is till horrible) you tell her to stay right there and you pop up to the summit and return. You could see this if it was two brand new hikers going up together but an experienced hiker to let this happen? What exactly needed to happen for this guy to turn around? What if she had busted her leg? Well, lets keep going, I'm sure you can walk it off. Too many coincidences here. I call BS.
At the 5:34 mark you say it is too late to turn back. Nay, nay, not a chance. it is NEVER too late to turn back, for NO ONE is moving that mtn next week! Error #2: Pushing on when their supplies & energy was depleted Error #3: Splitting up the "group". Just know that trouble doesn't happen at just one moment. Instead, it is a series of choices (bad choices) and events (events that happen due to bad choices) that will place a hiker in trouble.
I live on a mountaintop and it's only about 800ft above sealevel. Even here the fog rolls in within minutes and weatherchanges happen just as fast. But we learn mountain - safety rules in kindergarten. Must be done when you live in a country like Norway. Still we rescue tourists in droves every summer. Luckily we also have cell coverage in almost 100% of our country. So you won't be stuck on a mountaintop or in the wilderness with no way to get help. ❤🇧🇻
Now,doesn't her guide name some responsibility here? If she was unwell and didn't know where she was going,why on earth did he choose to just let her go off alone?? That just doesn't make any sense to me. He should have known better. How sad!
10:55 Michelle "crossed a boulder field" to connect with another trail. For whatever reason, boulder fields feature prominently in mysterious disappearances in alpine areas and National Parks in the United States. It is probably a good idea to avoid them whenever possible.
This was still Eric's fault. Being the more "experienced" hiker you think he would have known to not let someone sick hike down the mountain by themselves.
I lived in Denver for 5 years back in the mid 90's. We took some visitors up Guanella Pass and decided to hike one of the trails. I can't remember, exactly, but I think it may have been the Square Tops Lake trail, which ends at 13,930 feet. Talk about altitude sickness! I ended up having to stop before reaching the top, because I was literally seeing spots. Being above the timberline though, you could see all around. I told my husband and friends to go on, I was parking it right where I was and would see them when they came back. I did not go hiking off on my own. Later, when I was in better physical shape I went back and could get all the way to the top (though high up, it wasn't a hard or long trek). I was so stinking proud of myself. I would recommend hiking up that high if you ever can. It was completely silent, and you could see forever. But be in shape and have alternate plans!
@@CJK57 Once he stopped answering questions, oh yeah! His story should have been a simple one, "She wasn't feeling well, she said she was walking back, and who knows where she went." There must have been a lot of holes in his testimony for him to be questioned enough clam up all a sudden & get lawyered-up. If my good friend disappears I would be cooperating to the fullest until we found her.
@REB4444 you may find yourself cooperating into a prison term. The cops are not your friend, they aren't trying to help anyone, they want to close the case and often times don't care who pays for it regardless of guilt or innocence. If they can make something stick, they will.
@@REB4444 I think the point was that he DID provide all that information yet police kept going after the foul play angle since they hadn’t found her. So he did the logical thing and said he wouldn’t answer any more questions and got an attorney. The police are not your friends.
Altitude sickness has affected me every time I have flown into Denver to vacation in Colorado. The times I have driven into Colorado has allowed my body to adjust to the altitude and avoid the level 10 headaches and nausea.
I grew up in Colo Springs, but after living at sea level for decades all that altitude acclimation is long gone. Even when I drive back out there, The altitude renders me prostrate and gasping,
I can say this… i have 22 peaks in GNP … And back country skied there and surrounding area … That guy should never have left her especially to cut across non trail to find trail . Sooooo easy to miss the trail even when experienced! Does not matter what she said . Thats why its sooooo important to have partners who won’t abandon you in thier zeal to summit ! I was fortunate to have had great partners. I’ll shut up now .
New respect for ppl who deal with altitude….i went skiing in big bear this weekend, a few years since i last did it. I felt nauseous and drowsy after, miserable the whole way down the mountain (thankfully i wasnt driver). I didnt realize it was altitude sickness until later; I thought I hadnt eaten enough. I took one bite of food and felt nauseous. Ugh it’s horrible.
The best advice to my son was "the mountains will be there next time". AT thru hiker 2018. His first attempt 2017 was changed due to heavy snow in the 100 mile wilderness and that was May. His partner want to continue going deeper in the snow. Zack heard my voice in his head and turned around.
The Number One rule that my climbing instructors always said: You have to turn back as soon as things start to go wrong. They should Turn back the moment they realize they we're on the wrong trail.
Absolutely, especially with an inexperienced hiker expressing altitude sickness.
Brilliant advice. 9/10 these stories wouldn’t exist if more people adhered to this rule.
Yes. They should have turned back when they realized they were on the wrong trail. They could have hiked the correct trail another day. The construction confused them. They should have cut their losses and just decided to have a fun day. There is also no way I would hike with a headache. That’s torture. I also wouldn’t hike by myself or let someone hike by themselves with a headache, but I get migraines. I can’t imagine letting someone hike with a headache in that terrain.
One characteristic of people whose personality is high in trait "openness", which includes adventurous explorative people such as hikers, is that they tend to be overly optimistic. That goes hand in hand with wanting new unknown experiences. If you believe things will go wrong then you wouldn't be so eager to explore.
Trait "conscientiousness" combats this to some extent. Conscientious people are like doomsday preppers. They expect things to go wrong and want to prepare for it meticulously. They tend to overestimate both the likelihood of a worst case scenario happening, as well as the severity of what the worst case scenario could actually be.
It's pretty clear that the people in this story are high openness and not high in conscientiousness. They didn't prep at all and ignored things going wrong time after time. Your advice is nice but only applies to people conscientious enough to heed it. And those are the people that don't need your advice in the first place. The people who need to smarten up are prevented from doing so by their distorted personality traits, which in these stories, is usually really high openness and lack of traits that would temper it.
Yes
I was told by my dehydrated hiking partner to go on without her. I refused. Had I separated from her and something bad happened to her, I don't know if I could live with myself
Good for you, and I would feel the same. I don't have any personal goals that are worth leaving a friend, or even someone I know like that. It's not like you are able to put someone in a taxi and send them safely home! :C
Dehydration can be a killer! The person dehydrated becomes delirious & wanders!
Yes, they could always try again another time! Why risk the life of a friend to "check off a 14'er"?
THEN JUST SHOOT YOURSELF THEN. LOTS DO EVERY YEAR!
SASQUATCH KILLED HER.
Rule number 1: Don't leave your hiking partner. Rule number 2: If you're thinking it will be okay to leave your hiking partner, refer to rule number 1.
Rule 1 hike alone trust no one
My thinking exactly @MsMyHouse
I always hike alone. I always have though. I know it's not smart but I enjoy the solitude
@@colbornfarms4849 hahaha!
There’s no “let’s split up gang!” In hiking.
I went to high school with her, she was a really nice person and she always had that smile on her face in your picture.
Who do you and your friends blame?
💔❤️🙏🏻🌷
❤
My dad raised us hiking in the Sandia Mountains. He always ALWAYS said to turn back long before you hit the exhausted state, because what you go up, you must walk back down. Never get seperated. The only time you push yourself is in an emergency and then you pick a direction and KEEP GOING no matter what.
Man. This case has always haunted me. I live in Colorado and hiked that area in 1995. Over the years I've hiked with people that were not able to continue on and I did not hesitate to abort the hike and turn around. The mountains will always be there for another day. Never ever separate, have plenty of gear and turn around if necessary...
Great point! "The mountains will always be there for another day." Also for another month. moreover for another year!
You're the guy people should choose as hiking partner, not that other guy.
Never to late to turn around
Its likely BOTH hikers got foggy brain from hiking at high altitude. That’s when the stick together plan got mushy and things can quickly go mortally wrong:( Experienced hikers train for high altitude and/or hike in groups who stick together. Hubby and I had experience once at twilight hiking beautiful Mtn Division huts near Vail Pass Colo and we were rushing to get back b4 dark, at high altitude we misread our maps w fuzzy brain! Luckily we found our way down back to our car b4 pitch dark. We shd’ve departed earlier/ hiked w more experienced hikers.
I've been in that situation numerous times over the decades, even had a job guiding inexperienced hikers in moderately challenging areas for few seasons, and agree separating raises risks but doing so can be manageable if they stay on a substantial trail or better yet just find a comfortable place to wait on the trail for the group to return, but that is assuming they have water and aren't ill. However directing an inexperienced hiker who is out of water and possibly suffering from the altitude to bushwhack across high elevation terrain they don't know to meet on a trail they've never seen is beyond reckless.
Eric knew she was exhausted, inexperienced and poorly equipped, he never should have left her alone no matter what she said. On failing to do that he should have told her to stay where she was and he would come back and get her and then go down together, not tell her to make her way alone across a boulder field to find another trail on an unknown mountain
See, that indicates how Ill Equipped HE was to guide someone up the mountain. This was one 'fairly' experienced hiker, guiding a rookie. One of the most dangerous people on earth, are those who know some, but not enough. They don't know what to do in a crisis.
@@Objective-Observer A good basic rule in a crisis is that the first option you should consider is retreat, and, if that option is available, take it.
@@anonymike8280 Not in a Wilderness Situation , and especially NOT with an incapacitated person. All experts agree: you stay put. Get word to officials of your location, and do what you can to stay warm,... but in one place where you can be easily seen. He didn't contact authorities UNTIL AFTER she was missing. Rangers could have hiked up to bring her food and water, then guided her back down. They could have used a helicopter to fly her out, get IV fluids into her on the way to the hospital. The first thing he should have done was contact authorities, and advise them of the situation.
See, that's what I mean: he didn't know enough about crisis situations to follow the protocols.
@@Objective-Observer You have a point. But how can you stay put when you have no means of communication and you are in a place where others are not likely to come by? In that case, your option is to retreat.
In any case, the gist of my argument is that when you have a group, and a crisis comes up, the group has to act together. Or, if it is large enough, it can split up. But if it splits up, it has to split up in a rational and objective-oriented manner. There's a reason why a ship has a captain.
I am not sure in that situation that Michelle Vanek should be thought of as having been incapacitated. She managed to get somewhere on her own. If the pair had returned the way they came, she would have survived and maybe even recovered without intervention.
My sources say, carry a personal locator beacon and even a satellite phone. Myself, I stay away from the wilds and stay on the roads. Nature and hiking rails are not a neutral zone.
I hate to say this, but your assessment is the product of bumper sticker reasoning. Using all caps impresses no one. I've worked as a newspaper reporter and I have an M.A. in English literature. Graduate students in liberal arts subjects do a lot of writing. I know of what I speak.
Something is not right at all with that and I believe he had in the past hiked this. Why didn’t he talk with her the night before and tell her everything she must take. She was inexperienced and such and disoriented. Why in the world would he let her out of his site. Any normal and understanding person would have stopped and the both of them would start heading back down. There are things not known that I believe he knows. Maybe he had an accomplice.Something is very wrong with this. If there was someone working with him. This person could have told her he would help her get back down but instead leading her estray. Her husband said there was nothing between them. But no one knows for sure. It doesn’t add up. I pray the truth finally comes out.
A team of friends that I was leading were within 50 feet of the summit of a 12,000 ft mountain with only one fairly easy belay left.
Two of the four team members were not confident enough to take the steep snow slope and wanted to turn around while one member wanted to continue.
I forced us to all turn around.
I still haven’t summited this mountain - someday.
Never leave anyone behind without someone to help them - we literally saw teams leaving guys with likely cases of HAPE or HACE at camps on Denali because staying with them would prevent them from summiting.
No mountain is worth the life of you or your friends.
Exactly! This is the kind of attitude that experience brings. Every step on a mountain is borrowed, groups need to be willing to turn around, together with no questions asked. If a climber’s attitude is that they will summit no matter what, the risk of catastrophe increases. This is because they will push themselves past exhaustion past good decision-making, past dehydration, etc etc. until they are more prone to making a mistake or having a fall. In the mountains, especially very tall and steep mountains, one mistake or one mishap is often the difference between surviving and death.
And if it is, you would be a worthless friend to take anywhere, probably take too many chips from the bag types
It depends... If you're this close, and a summit is within the abilities of some members of the group and and outside the abilities of other members, I don't see a problem in splitting if the less able group members use the time to rest for a while. In fact: the question from my perspective would not be about splitting up (is it really splitting up, if the summit is just 50ft away?), but about the safety of the last stretch. If some members of the group find a stretch too dangerous, is it really within the abilities of the others or have they fallen victim of gethereitus? And as a side note: it is always difficult to interpret videos like this, as we only watch the examples where it went wrong on RUclips.
@@stefangr1 Well, @jimmysmith8231 was very clear about the situation: he would have had to leave two people alone who were less experienced than himself and who were not confident enough to go on, without anyone experienced enough to stay with them. It definitely is your responsibility as a group leader to never do that, not even for the ten minutes or so that might have been sufficient to bring the other group member to the summit and back. What Jimmy did was exactly the kind of responsible behaviour that i have been taught in my own group leader courses in the Alpine Club, and i believe it is what is universally taught.
Speculating whether the one group member who wanted to go on was actually capable enough is really beside the point here. It's the totally normal job of a group leader to judge whether they, as the group leader, can guarantee the safety of every group member (in this case, using a climbing rope in the proper way) even if a group member should happen to make some mistake. Of course, the group leader must also make sure to not lead group members into situations where they are utterly out of their depth. There isn't the slightest indication that @jimmysmith8231 neglected any of these responsibilities - to the contrary, him saying that he judged the final belay as "fairly easy" indicates that he did his due diligence and properly compared the difficulty of the climb to the capabilities of the group ahead of time.
To get back to the Holy Cross case, deciding to go on after hiking into the wrong trail was obviously a massive case of irresponsibility; the only sane option would have been to turn back, go home, and postpone the hike to another day. At the point where the two separated, the only sane option would obviously have been for the more experienced hiker to focus on safely getting the less experienced one down from the mountain, by the easiest and fastest way possible, and doing nothing except what is strictly required for that goal.
I disagree - leaving two less experienced team members for the ambitions of one is not a good idea.
While 50’ may seem to be no bid deal, I have seen people take a long, long time to climb a similar distance.
I'll never forget Anne Marie Potton who took a daytrip to the Peak of Whistler Mountain in late fall back in the early '90s, I think. Its a very busy chairlift access tourist attraction, easy road out to Roundhouse Lodge. This young lady disappeared with no trace that day. A light snow fell in higher elevation that night. All searches were futile, the entire mountain was combed. RCMP were suspicious of foul play. The winter came and went, and in late spring, a lifty noticed raven activity a few meters down the glacier side of the peak, (and when I say glacier - its a tiny one, barely anything left of it at all). They had found her. The poor girl had attempted to climb down the glacier for her return hike very late in the day - which was a very bad idea. She fell, then slipped into a very small crevasse, broke her leg. She was covered, and hidden all Winter by the skiff that fell the night she disappeared. This story just confirms that the mountains can kill you whenever they want, and can hide you where no one will ever find you in ten seconds flat.
Altitude sickness is crippling, both physically and mentally. They should have turned around together.
Yes, we know 😊
There's always time to turn back, especially if it's downhill, but your buddy should go with you. Altitude sickness is nothing to mess with.
It definitely messes with your judgment, as well.
It definitely can screw up your thinking. I've had it a couple times
Seems a many of these stories are due to someone not staying with their friend. Dude sounds like an ass. Never hike with an ass. :)
Agree with most of these comments! Solid video. Was he saying ' Altitude' with an accent,not familiar with it? Sounded like 'All-ti-....' . Was it just me?
Exactly! It is never acceptable to allow a member of your party who is struggling enough to want to turn around, to go back on their own.
Decide on a turnaround trigger before you start. For example, if we aren't at summit by X time or we aren't at this landmark by Y time automatic turnaround. And remember when calculating your turnaround trigger to factor how much time and energy you're going to need to have in the tank to get back to the trailhead.
And if one person needs to be propped up by the other, it's time to turn around!
And don't start off on a 5,000 ft hike with a headache.
Play it by ear , take it as it comes , react to the action . But remember ,...death is always right there , closer than you realize
Exactly! Agree ahead of time and check in with each other periodically.
Time is SO mision-critical, as is basic orienteering. Before approach, they should have realized the trail mistake within a few miles. VERY "inexperienced" and uneducated mistake. Trails aren't sidewalks, and these parks aren't suburbia.
Hiking the Appalachian trail a very red faced, disoriented and confused young woman passed US as WE rested. Something told me to talk to her and WE could all see she needed help. Water, shade and snacks helped. Her group finally caught up to her about 2 hours later. I will always feel like WE saved that person's life. Update: so many people replied that I want to say thank you. I was not alone and I'm not sure she would have stopped had I been. It was our GROUP that convinced her to just sit in the shade and share a cool drink and relax, together WE would figure things out. ✌️🌎🌍🌏💚
You did!!!
I say you did.
I too, believe you saved her life. Good job. 👍
Thank you for helping that woman! God bless you! 🙏
Sounds like you’re her guardian angel- she is lucky to be alive today!!!🙂
I was stricken with altitude sickness skiing at around 10,000'. I was not acclimated to the altitude at the time and dehydrated from heavy drinking. Going from sea level on the East Coast to the peaks of Utah within 24 hours was a huge mistake. Adding in heavy drinking and dehydration to the equation; a total rookie and careless mistake. It was the best day ever with fresh powder, low winds, and falling snow. I was halfway through my run when I noticed a pretty bad cramp in my right calf, then my left. Next thing I know, the cramps had creeped up my legs into my arms, and my head was pounding and I was disoriented and confused. My whole body was shutting down, so I got to the base as quickly as possible and tore off my boots. That was the last controlled movement I made. I sat like a statue, barely able to make a sound. Tears streamed down my face from the pain and frustration of being paralyzed. People were all around me, but no one noticed that I was in trouble because I couldn't alert them. I sat alone for 2 hours before a guy noticed that I hadn't moved in a while and he asked me if I was ok. I could barely whisper to him that I couldn't move. Fear for my life flashed across his face and he immediately alerted ski patrol who rushed me to the hospital to deliver oxygen to my lungs and brain and get me out of the altitude danger zone. My point is, altitude sickness is nothing to toy with. It's possible that Michelle could hear people calling out to her, but altitude sickness impairment restrained her ability to call back. RIP, Michelle.
❤ God bless you, thankful ur okay and thank u 4 that perspective!
Thank you for your explanation, I had no idea that one could be so severely affected, and by the sounds of things a lot of experienced hikers have never been affected by altitude sickness either. To understand it like you have told, will prepare anyone for the worst possible outcome, and hopefully save lives in future. Maybe hikers should all be made to take a safety course, before hiking up mountains, in a similar way that skippers are licenced to operate vessels at sea. Thank you.
@@Shannon-ig4bd Thank you so much!
@@bikeforsale7205 You're so right. I was naive to altitude sickness and had never experienced anything outside of light-headedness prior to this situation. To be honest, even when the paralysis hit me, I still didn't know it was altitude sickness. You raise such an excellent point about education. At the very least, there should be signs located on trails and maybe even at western airports bulleting the symptoms, risks, and what to do. The 2 hours I sat alone, but with people buzzing all around me, but not paying attention to me, was a bad situation in the sense I could have died then. Thankfully, that nice guy took notice and knew what was wrong even when I didn't. I may have had a much different outcome had I skied deeper in the back country that day.
Altitude sickness sounds similar to nitrogen narcosis. Have you ever done scuba diving in the ocean? If you go too deep, too quick, then you can become really badly affected by too much nitrogen in your blood. This can be very dangerous as you would normally be 20 - 30 meters deep, with impaired judgement and reasoning., comparible to your experience.
I’m not buying any of it . After 18 years that boot had probably been dragged from pillar to post by numerous animals. I doubt its location has any relevance to where her body is located. There’s too many questions that can’t be answered that should be answered. She had never been there before. She was completely unprepared for this kind of hike. Her experienced partner didn’t even ensure that she had the proper supplies required for this kind of hike. In fact, he knew she didn’t and took her anyway. He obviously didn’t care! She was feeling cruddy before they even left with probable altitude sickness, yet he took her anyway. Any experienced hiker would have called off the hike immediately, and opted for a hike she was more comfortable with and more prepared for. And then there’s all the really sketchy stuff. When she started feeling like she couldn’t go on any longer why would he just leave her alone in very unfamiliar wilderness territory? Why would he not have them both relax for a bit, have a bite and then turn around and go back? Or if it’s absolutely imperative (it’s not) that he summit the mountain why wouldn’t he just tell her to stay right where she was and he’d summit and be right back? Why send her on her way instead of safely hiking out together? Why would any hiker tell a novice hiker who’d never been there before to hike out on her own? On a trail she’d never been on before? In a direction she hadn’t come from? All while feeling sick and disoriented, without any overnight camping gear, and without enough, if any, food and water? Why would any hiker, experienced or not, point a sick and unprepared FRIEND into the thick wilderness and just send her on her way like that? By herself? So I’m not buying any of it. I don’t care where they found that boot. After 18 years it could’ve legitimately ended up in Mexico! It proves absolutely nothing. Any search and rescue crew would tell you that animals will move every and any part of a body and its clothing from the original site. And the longer the time passes the farther and farther away from the original site the items become. So why anyone is attributing any importance to the location of this boot in relationship to where she ended up is beyond me. I think her friend is good for this. There’s too many screwed up things that any hiker on the planet at any level of experience would ever do. No experienced hiker would’ve ever done any of the things this guy did. And no friend would’ve done them either. I have my own theory and suspicion about what happened, but I’ll keep it to myself. But there’s no way any of what he says occurred actually occurred. As a woman whose hiked enough I can tell you that there’s absolutely no way on the planet that if I’m feeling sick and disoriented, and I don’t have any overnight gear, and barely any food or water that you’re pointing me off in some unknown direction in the middle of nowhere with no one around and telling me to make my own way back. No way!! And if anyone has made this “friend” feel really uncomfortable over the last 20 years I’m glad! Keep doing it. It may be the only way you’re going to get to the truth.
Your absolutely right I agree with you totally
bro created a whole ass book
Paragraph breaks are your friends
Have you considered experimenting with using paragraphs when you write?
I couldn't help but think that the boot may have been moved by scavengers or other forces
As someone who grew up in Colorado specifically a mountain town the rule hiking or going anywhere in the woods was never leave the group or anyone behind we came up together we are coming down together. If we take 50 breaks on the way down but we all get home then we take 50 breaks
My father is from a mountain town and both he and his parents have instilled in me and my brothers utmost respect for the mountains. Even otherwise low mountain terrain can be very dangerous for people, let alone a single person struggling already with fatigue.
I cannot believe her partner agreed to leave her alone.
I grew up in Colorado and still live there. I've spent many hours alone in the mountains below and above timberline. Injury is really the only thing I ever worried about. Almost all the places I went had a register at the trail head where you could sign in so others would know if you did not return by the date you expected to. I once helped a man that was going to climb the north face of Blanca Peak. He was stuck in the road and my friend and I helped him get his car out of the way. Two weeks later I was on the zig zag trail into the South Huerfano and saw someone below me walking up the road. I looked through my binos and saw the same man. He was dressed in white shirt, black slacks and dress shoes carrying two suit cases. A week later the rescue squad found him dead on the north face of the peak. That face is 2200 feet basically vertical. I believe he was number 19 of the folks that have died there. Don't mess with mother nature.
@@russellkeeling4387How bizarre ... the way the man was dressed but he was hiking and carrying suitcases ? What ?
@@gardensofthegods Very weird, two suitcases? full of....money? dumping a body...? Anybody cultivating any 'crops' in the area?
I thought that @@gardensofthegods
You say it was too late to turn back, it's never too late to turn back. As long as you have breath in your lungs and your legs are working it's never to late to turn back. - that's where their real mistake was, is once they realized on the wrong trail they didn't immediately turn back. - and as far as calling that guy experienced, obviously he was not experienced at all, number one rule is you never separate from you buddy or make on the fly adjustments to your planned route. Again mistake #1 didn't turn back immediately once realizing on WRONG trail. #2 separated from buddy, while buddy has already made the statement they can not continue, if they can not continue then neither can you because you can't leave your buddy.... but even worse is the reasons he stated she couldn't continue wasnt because she sprained an ankle... no it was from altitude sickness..... any experienced hiker knows anyone suffering from altitude sickness is not in their right frame of mind. You DONT LEAVE THEM ALONE AND YOUR #1 PRIORITY IS TO GET THEM DOWN AS QUCKLY AS SAFELY POSSIBLE. Experienced my butt. Knew just enough to get her into some serious trouble, costing her the ultimate price.
He said it was too late to turn around and and still reach the summit, which it was. And being experienced doesn't mean you always make wise decisions.
Yeah...the idea that they were "already on the trail" so they did not want to turn back is on BOTH hikers. Ego's kill people every moment of every single day.
@@cbrashsorensen Yeah, the woman who was suffering from altitude sickness and dehydration (your man Kyle left that out) was CLEARLY in a position to make rational decisions.
@@AdelicowsEXACTLY my thought. You can be very experienced but still stupid but had incredible luck escaping a tragity. Sounds nonsensible but in my profession its seen all the time. Time nor frequency doesnt make you good. Being good at what you do makes you good. Talking to people who have been along for the ride can give input on a persons behavior. If they tend to be reckless and violate the basics thats a giant red flag. And guaranteed, you'll be at the bottom of his priority list.
He mentions that there were signs that the high altitude was affecting her at ~ 8:35 time point. He mentions it again at ~ 10:03 after also previously mentioning that she was out of water, etc., at that point.
I read a newspaper article on this story that said the construction in the parking lot had porta pots set up in front of the easier trail entrance so it wasn't easy to spot from the parking lot if you didn't know where it was because all you would notice is porta pots. Also the guy who was mentioned at the end of the video also said that the rock field she was crossing has areas of run off before it meets the main easier trail that can look like a trail down if you aren't familiar with the main trail. He thinks that's probably what happened with her that she may have thought she found the trail and followed it down.
Splitting up was obviously a huge mistake, but at worst as the experienced hiker of the group, he should have told her to stay there and he'd come back down after summitting and then they would both go across the rock field to the other trail together. I can't believe he would tell a novice hiker to leave an established trail and cross a long rock field to find another trail that neither one of them were familiar with. Such a heartbreaking story.
Yeah,I feel he bares some responsibility here. He was the experienced one and should have known better than to just let her go it alone. Such a shame,that one bad decision cost this lady her life
Yeah I agree, she was sick anyways, why not just have her relax for a few minutes so she would be ready to go down when he got back. He was obviously not that experienced if he didn't know better.
Possibly SHE insisted on leaving because she was feeling SO sick.
Everyone’s responsible for themselves when they’re hiking .. you can’t put the responsibility of everyone’s well being on one person.
She should have just sat down, let him summit, then he could have come back to her and they could have hiked off together. Sounds like both of them were inexperienced Hikers.
The thing about summits... people get fixated on it. Its no good to reach a summit dead exhausted/broken and requiring a helo or strapping ranger to carry you down. Personally in my hiking experience I've had to turn back from summits before. It sucks to have to give in to your body but once you start taking a rest stop every 3 steps it's time to turn back and focus on your conditioning.
Seen a lot of people ditch their partners who are flagging so they can get the summit. It's a dirty deal.
Eric is the exact type of hiking "partner" to avoid at all costs.
Echoing the thought that it was never too late to turn around together.
It's only a ~2 hour drive from Denver, and the mountain will always be there.
My husband took a coworker hiking at Vesper Peak in WA one day, and they couldn't find the summit due to extremely limited visibility.
His coworker wanted to push on, but my husband, the more experienced hiker, refused. They turned around together that day, and returned a couple weeks later for a successful attempt.
Don't separate from your original party, yall. These kinds of stories are sad :(
The mountain will always be there. But mistakes on a mountain can lead to fatalities so easily.
Seemed dumb to say they couldn't turn around. Of course turning around and going back is always an option.
@@ohsweetmysteryThat was my thought too.
Vesper? I've climbed that several times. You should look up the case of missing hiker Sam Sayers - never found, creepy. It actually inspired me to finally volunteer for Search and Rescue.
@@ohsweetmystery At the point where they realized they were on the wrong trail - absolutely. Turn around and go home was a no-brainer at that point.
However, situations do exist where it actually is too late to turn around - even though getting into such a situation usually means you have already made a long series of mistakes before reaching that point.
For example, at the point where they finally separated, it actually *was* too late for turning back. If she was unable to make it up the last 300 ft, she was definitely much too weak to make it back all the very long way they had come, which included multiple ascents and descents of smaller summits along the crest they had followed.
Judging from the map, by that point, going on was actually the only chance to get her off the mountain - either via the summit or via the western flank of the mountain, then down the northern ridge. It's hard to judge from only the map which one would have been easier and/or safer, summit or flank, but by that point, it had to be either one or the other.
Actually, turning back *way* before the point where turning back is no longer an option is one among the various major principles of risk management...
My brother was a sheriff’s deputy and lead search and rescuer. I’m talking rappelling out of helicopters into swollen rivers search and rescue. When he was first married and prior to children, he and his wife went hiking with a couple who were friends of a friend. They swore to my brother they were experienced hikers, as my brother and sister in law were. They lied. They had a route planned where they would split up as 2 couples and go to two different vantage points. That was planned prior to the hike beginning and the other couple swore they were experienced. The day of the hike they set off as planned, but night came on and they were still missing, they should have met up 4 hours prior to dusk. My brother had to make his wife remain in place and if they weren’t back in 2 hours, she was to go for help. My brother somehow found the couple, completely lost, and made it safely back. Once down the mountain, my brother let them know how dangerous the situation has been and cut off all future contact. People often make stupid decisions that do not aid their continued survival.
Yes...cut off contact. Your life is valuable.
Your anecdote might be relevant if that's what happened in this case. Eric Sawyer knew Michelle Varner had minimal high-altitude experience. Eric had climbed 38 of the 58 fourteeners, including Mount of the Holy Cross. He wasn't just her partner, he was her guide. He abandoned her in his quest to get to the summit, and she died. Her mistake was trusting him.
@benhurn8277 I don't think they care about your opinion, Mr. Personal Responsibility. The people involved in the search for her, most of whom were volunteers, certainly don't. Michelle Vanek wasn't a "thrill seeker." She was a triathlete and a marathon runner who wanted to try something new. She wasn't going for Everest, ffs. Eric Sawyer, a longtime friend of the family, wasn't just her partner, he was her guide. He'd climbed 38 of the 58 fourteeners, including Mount of the Holy Cross. He ignored every sign of her distress in his pursuit of the summit and abandoned her. She died as a result. Her mistake was trusting someone who didn't value her life.
There are thousands of very experienced hikers that have never been near a mountain, much less climbed it or one or its skirts. People overestimate their skill levels all the time and drown, die on the side of a mountain from various reasons, or dehydrate in the desert. I wish they would be more honest with themselves or their guides, but its a common human weakness.
@benhurn8277you sound like a muppet.
The mountains will always be there, don’t hesitate to turn around, especially if you have hikers who are not as strong as you are. Don’t ever separate, especially with inexperienced people. It’s a truly sad story.
Yeah, Eric telling her to "cut across" the mountain to get on the easier trail was just unbelievably stupid. These are two people who couldn't even find the right trailhead out of 2 options while in the parking lot. I think they where both suffering from altitude sickness 😮
Remarkably stupid and brainless
It’s suspicious to say the least.
Her trust in Eric was horribly misplaced, regardless of his motives.
Considering she said go ahead without me because she couldn’t take another step.
This kid does a great job. He really seems to study and prepare before his stories. He remains pretty neutral which is always great. He's a decent, cogent storyteller. Give him a listen and maybe subscribe. I did, and have. I'm probably a picky, contrarian scrooge truth be known but I thoroughly enjoy his channel.
evoking your right to an attorney is the first thing ANYBODY should do regardless of innocence or guilt.
Sorry to do this, but it's invoke not evoke.
You are absolutely correct. Often times completely innocent people can find themselves in trouble if they talk to a person who suspects them.
LMFAO
@@ronnietexanhahahaha don’t be sorry thanks for the correction
As a person who has been wrongly accused by cops on two separate occasions, let me make it clear that if they suspect you, they really *want* you to be the person who’s guilty
I have backpackers and mountaineering for over 50 years. The number one consideration is knowing the experience and competence of your team members. If you know that everyone is very experienced and has proper gear, splitting up is usually not a problem in easier circumstances. I have done it many times, and my friends do not worry if I split off. I have also done this activity solo.
When mountaineering, I would only split up if someone wants to stop and wait for the return. Not a problem unless the person is in distress. You never split up and leave someone in distress alone.
The rules change if you bring along inexperienced people. You never split up and leave them alone. I have turned around many times when an inexperienced person wants to stop and go down. It's what you must expect when you bring them along.
This jerk split up with an inexperienced and ailing companion.
I agree he is a jerk. They literally started the climb w her having a headache. Then they failed to turn back when they realized they were on the difficult path. I hope this guy lives w massive guilt.
Great input and I agree. I'd like to add, Eric's friend may have stated, "he hasn't a malicious bone in his body", but Eric's actions toward an ailing friend were those of a thoughtless, self-centered fool.
@@janelleanderson6744 well said !!
Absolutely! You always look after the team.
People....please, stop separating while hiking.
I disagree. Delicious people , please keep splitting up in the woods. Remember you can cover more area that way. - Sincerely Bigfoot
@@brendonnashca😄😄😄
“Let’s split up”, are when horror movies gets real.
@@brendonnashca Is that you Harry?💓🦍💓
Please, please, be self-reliant, personally engaged and stop looking for mommy and daddy’s hands. Be adult. Be real. Take FULL responsibility for yourself. That’s a superb place to start before expecting another to cover your ass.
It’s a established hiking trail. Not a black forest with werewolves.
My friend’s 22 year old son will be hiking the Appalachian trail in March. He’s never hiked before and I’m worried for him more than my friend. She just brushes it off and says ‘he’ll be fine’! However, I’m hearing more and more about hikers being harmed from foul play.
Lots of creeps in that srea
Tell him if someone seems really, really nice, be extra, EXTRA careful.
He needs to CARRY. And get the training to do so SAFELY. To know first aid and to study stories of hikers’ mistakes or emergency situations.
The first signs of altitude sickness that I have experienced first hand is a head ache that only gets worse the longer you remain at that altitude. My limit is 7500 feet approximately and the moment that I descended about a thousand feet, the head ache vanished. Most experience Altitude sickness at over 8 thousand feet.
Altitude sickness can cause death and people don't realize how serious this can be. Symptoms: Headache, vomiting, feeling tired, trouble sleeping, dizziness, and more serious complications can include High-altitude pulmonary edema, high-altitude cerebral edema. People who shrug this off can be in for a serious life threatening problem and degree of fitness has really nothing to do with it. The cause is the rapid decrease in oxygen due to rapid decrease in oxygen levels. Ascending more slowly may help some people but car drives into the mountains are pretty rapid ascents.
I am a firm believer that as a hiker my first responsibility is to the people that I am hiking with or others on the trail that may need help. The hike becomes secondary at that point and should for all. So, the man hiking with her should have never left her and assumed that she could begin descending alone. And being that this was her first time climbing, I believe that should have ended the conversation about him continuing. Safety should always be number one. It is sad but he will have to live with this.
It is sadly common today for people to leave others on the mountain that are slower hikers. I have experienced that myself on at least one occasion and it was not a good feeling being left 3 miles into the back country that is Grizzly bear country is not a good feeling. I would say, pick hiking partners wisely!!
When my husband and I got married his brother lived in Golden Colorado and we took our honeymoon there. The 2nd day there, we camped on Mt. Princeton (a 14er) @ about 10 thousand feet elevation, we got up the next morning and started out. We made it within 100 ft of the summit and I quit….. So I stayed back on a huge mass of boulders while the group went on up. It was right on the trail up and back so everyone passed right by me. I did get very nervous because it seemed like everyone has passed going down, except my husband, his brother and a couple more people. So I was thinking I’d have to head down by myself. Finally they did arrive and I swore than that I’d never part ways from the group again. Sorry this happened.
😂
Sorry that your HUSBAND and FRIENDS thought leaving you behind was a good idea.
You need a new husband 🤷♀️ 😂 jj x
You did the right thing, the rest of the group did not! I can’t believe that even you’re husband let you stay there alone. Are you still married to him?
Yes, once you separate yourself from the "group" who knowswhat might happen and it can be very scary.
Reaching the top was not that important. Before you got to the boot, my first thought was that she fell from a great height stumbling alone and sick in the dark. My second thought was that a misleader wasted a bunch of resources on a wild goose chase based on a huge assumption about which way she went. My third thought was if her friend knew she was physically struggling at that height, he needed to abandon whatever he was doing to walk her down that mountain as soon as she started struggling. He may not have had a malicious bone, but he certainly had some selfish ones.
So sorry for what Michelle had gone through in her last days, terrifying 😔 Her four kids must have gone through hell not knowing what has happened to her for such a long time 😥
I can’t imagine putting myself in danger like that as a mother. Totally unnecessary. I don’t separate from my people in public, much less wilderness.
@@itchysheets1222 Exactly! But you hear it all the time when parents wind up dead after participating in high-risk activities for whatever recognition from others they can get out of it because I'm quire sure, most of these high-risk takers wouldn't do it if they were the last people on the planet.
I found it really disturbing that all a lot of people cared about after the recent death of a YT "star" who crashed and burned while performing his jet suit stunt (not to mention he filmed his demise) was all about him and I had to search through some 15 articles into the story, just to find out if he'd left any children behind.
They were more of an after-thought w/only general condolences to his "loved ones" while everyone sang the father's praises as an awesome high-risk star even though he left four children behind to suffer the loss of their father who was busy trying to set records and make a name for himself.
@@isabellind1292 wow that was such a good point! that makes me sick. Women do stuff like this too, but I will say, especially for shitty partners who are men-not much changes for them once they become a father-unlike for the mother. So they just keep on living their same life, never even realizing there’s so much more to a deeper connection to your children. They are you. And you are everything to them. Your choices in life have to reflect that. Or you’re just a shitty person, not even a parent.
@@itchysheets1222 But these women know what they sign up for when they knowingly marry risk-takers or whatever their partner's passions in life are. They both make the choice whether or not their children will be their priorities or not and it's completely irresponsible to have a child if either party doesn't want to put their children's needs above theirs. It's a deal breaker!
I doubt it's any consolation to a child that their parent wasn't in their life for all the milestones when people say "Yeah but at least they died doing what they loved to do!"
I'm sure your children would feel very safe and secure knowing they are your priority!💓🌺
Amen
I got left in my group of friend's dust in the Porkies a few years back. It was starting to get dark, and I was unable to continue without help. I came to a fork in the trail and wasn't sure where to go, so luckily I turned back to a clearing to make camp if necessary. My friend showed up about 5 minutes later. He was yelling my name, but in the undulating terrain, I didn't hear him until he crested the adjacent hill to me. He carried my pack for me and led me to our campsite a full 2 miles farther. I was angry with them, but at the same time, I knew they'd be looking for me.
Had I taken the wrong turn, I might have been on one of these videos.
I don’t naturally think of what could go wrong. This channel is teaching me a lesson.
You've ALWAYS got to think of what could go wrong. ALWAYS. It's good you're aware of this now. It will help your survival in everyday life, as well as in hiking.
As an experianced hiker that has taken my fair share of novices out for their first real backcountry eperiance, I feel that one way or another much of the blame falls on Eric for sending her off on her own. In this situation, an individule will minimal hiking expereiance, fatigued, and possibly suffering the affects of altitude should have been escortd down. The summit will be ther another day. Regardless of what she said, there is no way he should have left her. Man up Eric accept some responsability for what ever happened after you sepatated.
Agreed! His ego got in the way. Caring for your friend is more important then reaching the summit.
Facts
👏 Same sentiment as never leaving the slowest hiker at the back 😤 achieving your “goal” of distance etc is not as important as the lives of others around you
1000 percent agree. I feel that was some crazy neglect. I think he is responsible and I think the national park system needs to hold people accountable when they take someone else hiking?? He made her go further when he should’ve taken her back. He was fine so he didn’t care about her he cared about reaching the top.
Yes. And why, pray tell, did he not check on her supplies, water, food, emergency back up gear and rations? He should have done this from the get go. Something is just not right for him to be so careless about a novice "friend".
How tragic. I am not a hiker but I am somewhat a survivalist. I cannot imagine undertaking any trek like this without some form of shelter and minimal survival gear...ounces be damned.
I feel like there’s very light stuff you can bring, like a foil blanket for a tent, stuff like that.
@@TheQueenOfSheba Indeed. They even have them now where they are a tube tent.. My guess is, one would be willing to pay $10,000 for a can of Sterno and an emergency blanket if stranded those conditions. I almost froze to death when I was young. Had I not carried my one burner in my hunting pack, I would have.
If you’re a survivalist, better become a hiker. Sometimes your survival depends on the ability to move fast, with all your survivsl stuff on your back.
Buying items light enough to successfully carry on a long high altitude extreme uphill day hike adds a huge financial burden. Many people literally can't carry enough stuff if they have to carry cheap (heavy) gear
@@no_peace A survival mylar tube tent cost $20. A survival blanket cost less than a dollar and a survival sleeping bag cost $14 and weighs 2 oz. A Sterno Wick 6 hour canned heat is $4.00 and weighs 11.5 oz. For less than $35 and approx. 13 oz. you get to live. Sounds like a bargain to me. Secondly, if you cannot afford to properly and safely equip yourself you should not embark on a mountaineering adventure.
That Eric dude ...smh.....he was experienced and should have never left her out there on her own. In fact, they should have turned around as soon as they realized they went the wrong way!!
Funny how Eric wanted an attorney and didn't want to co operate with the cops after she disappeared.Yeah suspicious to me.
You haven't dealt with women 😅😅
I realized I was lost on a trail one no cell reception, turned back right away
@@parthsavyasachi9348 we could tell you haven't met a single one 😂
@@cheeryberrie by the sound of it you are another one who has never met a woman.
I'm always amazed that there are so many people who will volunteer to hike up mountains or other treacherous terrain or places. It's such a show of humanity to use your skills and experience to help. They deserve all the respect and gratitude they can get.
One of the ways humans can be very good to each other.
We have a tram and it froze up on the tracks a couple years ago. Those people were stuck hundreds of feet up in the air and a team hiked up the mountain, climbed the tram tower, rappelled out onto the cables, and helped everyone down out of the car in extremely cold winter weather.
The guy in the tent seems like he could have been a poacher. This explains the shotgun, blood and refusal to be identified.
Did he kill her?
You call someone a murderer because of the way they cook their eggs??? Thats some new jack sh**
@@MattL-dl2suLOL
But her climbing buddy is at fault , he left her alone, when she was sick. What sort of friend does that.
The summit! It's the most important thing in the world. No friendship or responsibility is even near that. I'm going, I must reach the summit!
I'm sure she insisted he go on, insisted....give him a little slack.....
Have you ever tried to convince someone, (generally a woman) not to do something, especially when they are determined to do something, LOL!
@@leelaural No. From practical experience, on a mountain hike, the majority of people who are exhausted and don't want to go on say stupid things like "go on, i will wait here, i shall be just fine" - it's a fundamental thing you have to learn as a group leader to *never* give in to that, no matter how much the exhausted group member begs you. Really, mountain safety 101. 😞
@@leelauralOh poor Eric was so under the dominance of this Karen that he was forced to summit although he didn't want to.
Yeah right. She forced him.
Its never to late to turn around, attitude sickness is like being drunk and leads to confusion and bad decisions. Never ever split up with your hiking party!
Inexperienced, unprepared and sick. Separating was the wrong decision.
You need a lot of water climbing mountains.
And when you’re not climbing.
Turn around!!
Summit fever kills more climbers than just about anything.
In 2003, a friend and I were climbing Devils Tower in Wyoming. He was one move from the top, but had mistakenly taken the wrong route on the last pitch.
He tried to do the move to get to the final anchor but was too tired after climbing over 800 feet, and to add to that, the protection was not very good at this point in the climb.
We decided to forget the summit and just come back another day.
We rappelled back down and took the next day off to rest.
The following day, we started an hour earlier, took more food and water and less equipment, and made it to the summit without any problems.
My friend beat himself up for years thinking he had failed me, because he didn't get to the summit on the first try, but he had actually shown great leadership by making the correct decision considering the circumstances, and probably kept us from needing rescue at almost 800 feet on the side of that tower.
Kyle, I really like your conversational style, your research of the cases, and lack of dramatic music on your videos. I hike a lot, mostly alone, and I have been drawn to these stories over the years. It seems that no matter how much I already knew about a particular incident, you add valuable insight and information to the story.
It’s amazing how unprepared they were when it comes to vital supplies and just knowing which way to go after planning for it for that long. Crazy!
A couple & their baby & dog died in Calif from dehydration. Dog couldve gone to a stream to get water yet loyal to the very end. They didnt even bring enough water for 1 person I believe. They even dropped their fob on the trail so if they got to the vehicle even...😢
That blows my mind. @@spicyirwin5835
Good, clear telling of a sad story, Kyle. Thanks for bringing this to our attention.
Our first 14er attempt in Colorado was Mt of the Holy Cross. We totally missed the trailhead. Did a bit of bushwacking and then decided that was enough fun for one day. Pretty sure we made the exact same mistake. We enjoy bushwhacking so it was nothing that gave us any concern. But, there is not a mountain in Colorado that is safe for inexperienced hikers.
I have never gone back. My husband did several years later.
I've personally had some bad experiences in the mountains of Colorado. That could have turned out very badly. I thank my Guardian Angel for keeping me safe.
Not going to be able to finish watching this. This hits too close to home for me. So very sad that her hiking partner had such little care for her or her safety.
We have many of these same concerns here in the beautiful but treacherous alpine region of northern Delaware. BTW, ^the image at 11:20 in this video is actually stock footage of north Wilmington De. Our highest peak is Iron Hill, which reaches the lofty heights of well over 9,900(centimeters)! Yes, supplemental O2 is mandatory. 😁
Mt. Democrat isn't bad at all (for a Colorado 14er), but I still got a headache when I climbed it as a teen. Now I just prefer to enjoy the views of Colorado's highest peaks from alpine meadows & beautiful mountain lakes.
All of the 14ers are fairly easy hikes, I've hiked much more difficult trails on the east coast for sure. But, once the weather turns or you veer off trail, all bets are off.
If you are unprepared with food or water, do not know how to recognize the early signs of altitude sickness or did not bring anything for staying overnight, you are pretty much screwed and every single 14er can turn deadly.
@@LisaKnobel
Really, you can suffer significant altitude sickness at around 14,000 feet of altitude?
@@Lifetalk849
I don't know....... At this point, I'd avoid any mountain named after democrats or republicans! Maybe I'd climb Mt. Libertarian. Lol
The stories you cover are so intriguing!!! And I find myself looking for the plotted hikes, from most of your stories!!
Kyle, this story is worth considering: (2014) Human remains discovered near Middle Anthracite Creek have been identified as missing hiker Sherri O. Ahlbrandt of Littleton, Colo. Ahlbrandt was reported missing in August after hiking in the Oh Be Joyful/Daisy Pass area. There had been no signs of the 54-year-old woman until last week, when a hunting party delivered some of her belongings to the Mt. Crested Butte Police.
She separated from her group in a cold fog up an easy trail (Lived there then) because they were all exhausted... so she decided to quickly bag the top off the pass. Raining, foggy, cold... she literally got turned around and went off the other side / the wrong side of the trail. Hunters found her remains far, far away from the pass, in a very desolate area between Crested Butte and Marble, Colorado.
Mistake #1: Calling any trail that is not in a city park "easy". No such thing.
It is good to have a goal, but it is not good to be obsessed with achieving it, especially when you put your life, or the life of others, in danger. What a sad end for a wife and mother. And for so many years, without a physical clue. I am glad they found the boot. May her family be at peace.
Very good point. Too much overachievement going on.
I think moving the goal from the summit to the end of the hike in the parking lot would benefit a lot of overachievers.
Way to blame the victim.
can concur altitude sickness. I climbed a Rocky Mountain peak, but could not summit. I was within sight of the summit. The altitude sickness was a powerful adverse influence.
Interesting. What are the symptoms?
@@sabrinatscha2554confusion, headache, shortness of breath, lethargy, bad decision making, lack of urgency or inability to understand you're in danger. Sometimes migraine. Tourists tend to sit on the trail and illogically insist they're going to rest. The best thing you can do is get that person downhill. At very high elevation you can get HACE or HAPE and have a brain or lung embolism.
@@sabrinatscha2554 symptoms are headache, nausea, general fatigue, dizziness, sometimes trouble seeing clearly, and a general unwell feeling. I had altitude sickness when I drove from Illinois up into a Colorado ski town. It also makes it hard to sleep and recover and is just generally not fun. It's your body freaking out because it doesn't have as much oxygen as it's used to.
5:55 another big takeaway is that it is never too late to turn around. If a route is too difficult, too hard to follow, or you’re just not feeling up to the challenge-for any reason, it is _always_ acceptable to turn around. It is so much better to bail on a goal in the attempt and be able to come back another day than to die (or even have an harrowing trip, or need to be rescued) trying to meet that goal.
1) it's never too late to turn around. 2) always stick together.
Such a heartbreaking story. May she rest in peace. Also, floored he told her to go on her own and that they separated.
Separating in such an extreme situation when staying together and helping each other can be life saving? Totally insane!
Suspicious is what it is.
It has never occurred to me before that any of the old shoes or boots I've seen out in remote places in the mountains might be connected with a missing hiker. So I learned something here.
I think it's unlikely that someone just threw them away.
If you are hiking, you dont want to carry extra weight and don't take a spare pair of boots.
I always wonder where they're from and how they got there, and I've seen A LOT of shoes, mostly just one of a pair, occasionally the pair. All sizes and types.
If it were me, I'd take a picture and pull up the GPS coordinates off my phone or Garmin menu, or add a pin on your mapping app. Couldn't hurt to message whatever park authority.
@@lh3540 Yeah, probably a good idea to mark the spots and report, just in case. You'd think there would be more publicity about missing hikers, but around here anyway, there isn't.
@@Lee-tt2yb I know. It's weird, isn't it?
There is no such thing as "too late to turn around".
Yeah... They had time to go forward but not back? How are they doing math?
Well in this case the point might have been the trail they were supposed to be on that they could connect with at the summit (that was less than a few hundred yards away) was WAY easier and shorter. They chose the vastly harder and longer trail initially.
It was too late to go back and start over and still make the summit. Agreed, "Too late to turn around" is a strange way to put it.
Places where it can be too late to turn around: a circular route or a through route where you've already passed the halfway point and the terrain in front is not significantly worse than that behind you.
Places where it's never too late to turn back: out and back hikes. 😅
Before GPS, my backpacking partner and I missed a branch in the trail. The 2-foot high trail sign marking the branch had rotted and fallen into the brush. Three miles later our trail faded into nothing. Luckily we found a stream that started at the lake we should have been headed for. Following that stream, we made it to our destination the hard way. On our way back, three days later, we found the broken trail sign. How easy that day would have been had that sign not fallen.
I find it hard to understand why her hiking partner Eric, knowing she was inexperienced & possibly suffering from altitude sickness, did not insist on accompanying her down the trail. After all he was an experienced hiker, who had climbed trails in this region before. He must have been aware as to how badly Michelle was suffering, that she was struggling to keep up with him & that there was the possibility that she wouldn't be able to make it down unaided. As the more experienced hiker, he should have turned around & gone back with her. I also don't understand as to why Eric didn't check that Michelle had brought enough water, food & the proper gear with her? It just seems really suspicious that Eric took a hiker who had no experience of hiking in high altitude on a trail that would be difficult for her, in a bad weather season. In my opinion, Eric is partially to blame for Michelle's death.
I’ve lead lots of individuals and groups on mountain climbs. At the trailhead BEFORE we head out I establish some rules. One is that we leave together, we hike/climb together and return together. Another is a turnaround time. And September on 14footers definitely requires a beefed up day pack.
There's literally no reason that Eric should have continued on. NO MATTER WHAT. Ditching your hiking partner (especially when they are not experienced) is unbelievable .
I don't think it's fair to blame just him. They both hold some responsibility, and honestly? I can see how in the moment they thought this was okay, even if it was a bad decision.
@@KyleHatesHikingI agree
@@KyleHatesHikingI feel like there are many cases like this - but ended more happily. You always think nothing bad will happen, this land is full of hikers, and we are capable, and yatta yatta. Let this case be a lesson.
At the very least, he should have summitted and joined her right back where he left her, instead of trying to get her to navigate alone while sick. That's the part that annoys me.
🗯Yeah, I was thinking that too!... I mean, How do they know if she even went there that day?!., and he could've thrown that shoe out there.🤷🏽♀ js.
I couldn't do what her friend did...
1) I'd make sure I had a minimum equipment list for any hiking buddy, especially considering she was completely inexperienced, I'd make it clear that without the equipment we'd not be doing the planned hike. Perhaps a much shorter easier hike to assess any hiking buddy's abilities,and it'd be a great introduction.
2) altitude sickness or not, Michelle was obviously not at 100%, so perhaps a short hike to assess how affected she was by it.
3) I wouldn't care what she said about carrying on the hike without her, I'd stop the hike and return with her. As the experienced 'leader' of the hike I'd feel responsible for my partner's safety, especially considering I let them proceed on the hike without appropriate equipment.
Of course we've also had other fatalities and disappearances with the reverse outcome...the lead hiker going on ahead and disappearing. Hiking alone will always be more hazardous...
Agree. Why on earth would he tell her and why would she attempt to go back down alone? Why didnt she just stay in place and wait for him to return and they would go down together? It doesn't make sense to me. Just stay and wait, sit down.
@@halfdome4158 She wanted to cross to the other trail over the boulder field, while he was going to find the head of the second trail at the summit and meet her there. At least that was my understanding. Based on the location of the shoe, she didn't find that second trail.
@@halfdome4158 Even that would have been a very bad idea, almost as bad as what they did: (1) Up 300 ft and down again after a long day typically takes 30 minutes, or at least 20 minutes when you are really strong. Sitting in the cold alone at 13.700 ft altitude for half an hour without food, water, but with suspected altitude sickness? Really? (2) Waiting (even if they are not cold or in pain) generally makes people uncomfortable and sometimes causes them to do stupid things, especially when not feeling well, and in such a situation, which clearly already was an almost-emergency, it feels as if time is moving extremely slowly. People who actually manage to wait very often say afterwards: "I became more and more afraid and started to wonder whether something had happened to you and whether you would come back at all." Don't put someone into such a distressing position, ever. (3) The hike they originally intended was already a serious challenge given her experience. They did a much longer and more difficult hike already, so they were almost certainly massively behind schedule. So even if she had been perfectly fine, wasting yet another half hour might have been a bad idea - they still had to get down from the mountain before dark, and she was very clearly in a bad condition, so there was no knowing how long that might take. (4) From where they were, the shortest way down was actually *over the summit* (look at the map!). That's certainly no excuse for separating, but it does explain why Eric did not want to go to the summit and come back. The way back to her would have been 180° the opposite direction of where he had to go for going home, so one can kind of see how the idea of meeting up on the other side of the summit might have entered his head. Of course, it was still a stupid idea, and acting on it sheer madness.
As a Triple Crowner, I think the most important thing in the mountains is mitigating risks. In order to do that, you must educate yourself about such risks before such a trip. Skill sets such as map and compass are of utmost importance in the mountains but can be learned anywhere. Don't wait until you are lost to pull out the map, regularly check the map to verify your location and direction to prevent being lost. Self reliance is one of the joys of the mountains for me. I did not find this joy by always hiking with a partner. I studied routes I wanted to hike and learned the risks; avalanche, long waterless stretches, altitude sickness, snowfields... and planned accordingly. I also would not have left an inexperienced hiker to navigate cross country on a high rocky peak solo. Either turn around or tag peak and return to a waiting companion to lead them to safety. If you accept a partner, take responsibility for them, as they should for you. Pick a partner carefully for mountain adventure.
Shocking that adults could ever attempt a hike like this without adequate provisions or an emergency kit and knowledge for an unplanned overnight stay.
Hey Kyle. I've never been a hiker and at this point I'm barely a walker most days due to some wicked osteoarthritis in my lower back and neuropathy that makes me have intense, debilitating cramps in my legs if I walk too far. But I really enjoy your videos! I feel like you're taking me to places that would be impossible for me to go on my own. I'm like a vicarious hiker, I guess. You've got an engaging personality, a wealth of knowledge through experience, and you're funny as heck. I think a million subs is definitely an attainable goal! Can't wait to see you get there!
Hello, my fellow armchair hiker!
Haha love this! I hope your osteoarthritis and neuropathy doesnt get any worse from here on and i hope that you continue to have these amazing hiking experiences with kyle online❤
Don't leave your hiking buddy behind. Its called the buddy system for a reason. Stay with her, let here catch her breath and rest for a bit, then see if she wants to continue. It said he made it to the summit early so no rush. But, why even tell her to start back down if the summit was so close? If its so close tell her to stay put, rest, catch your breath or whatever. Absolutely no need to send her off.
This reminds me of how different things were 20 years ago. Yes, there was GPS but not as widely available as it is now.
Exactly, I learned to drive when gps started to be available for cars and it sucked!
A lot of people would rather risk disaster than spend 2 or 3 hundred bucks on a GPS. Also, thinking maps are optional is a mistake. A GPS with no maps in it can get you into as much trouble as get you out. I'm referring to today, not 20 yrs ago.
There have been a few cases of missing hikers being swallowed up by rockslides. One young woman was only discovered about 2-years later because her boot, with her foot still in it, was seen sticking out of a shale pile. That said, as soon as a hiking partner complains about a headache it is time to turn around and try another day with the requisite altitude adjustment time factored in. Even then, once you use up half your water it is time to turn around. There is no shame.
It's never too late to turn around when you realize you are going the wrong way.
I can’t believe how experienced her friend is and let her go out with that little of fear AND let her go by herself when she was logistically and evidently dehydrated. You need the same amount if water to make it out as you hiked in with typically.
Rule number 1, IT'S NEVER TO LATE TO TURN AROUND!
If altitude sickness keeps you from turning around, it literally IS too late for to turn around?
Thanks for reminding us to be safe and careful at all times!it is so easy to get hurt,lost or disoriented in the wilderness.
It’s pretty ambitious for experienced hikers to tackle those heights. You never know how your body will handle the altitude each time you go.
Never separate, all go forward or all turn back.
I subscribed, in my youth I to was a avid hiker, I reached the summit of Mount Whitney, I hiked John Muir tail through the Sierra over several summers, it was surreal to sit where John Muir sat, and see with my own eyes what he described in his writings.
I was on a search and rescue team in Arizona for 10 years. During that time I have knowledge of several searches which were unsuccessful in finding lost hikers or bodies which were in fact well within the search area. The problem is that most of the volunteer searchers end up following the same trail as dozens of other searchers, usually because they do not have the necessary off-trail navigation skills. They do fine following the trail in front of them, but not so when off trail. As I looked at the map (20:12 in the video) I could immediately see that the Angelica couloir would be an enticing route for an inexperienced hiker to follow if she missed the trail. So I wonder why none of the hundreds of searchers went there? Surely some of the searchers had the necessary navigation skills to do that. Probably it would require an overnight bivouac and/or a helicopter drop-off to search that area.
You ALWAYS have enough time to turn around on a trail and go back down! Listen to your body, know your limits because even identical twins don't have the exact same body. If one wants to stop and go back down, you ALL go back down. In hiking, rock climbing, and spelunking, you NEVER go alone and you can always try again, but you can't if you're dead.
If you take someone with you, and you leave them behind, you are responsible for them. And what happens.
Never ever leave anyone alone or let them do such things alone, experienced or not.
Doesn’t matter if the laws support this… you should never think it’s okay to do this.
Stay together.
As kids growing up in the Colorado mountains in the late '40's and 50's, we were taught never to go off into the woods by ourselves! Someone sure dropped the ball with her.
I read a number of comments about the fact that she said “go on without me; I’m heading back down”. And I agree 💯%.
Imagine leaving someone you care about - in that terrain, in all that wilderness, a well conditioned athlete, and yet beaten by exhaustion and possibly mountain sickness - so that you can finish your goddamn hike!
Put yourself in that position. It is unimaginable to me that I would say “are you sure? Okay, well 🤷🏻♂️… I’ll see you around”.
Whether this guy killed or simply left her, his duplicity is only a matter of degrees. He has no doubt earned every measure of scorn and suspicion coming to him… throughout his life. That may sound harsh. But people with character simply do not leave their “wingman” for any reason.
I had a goal for years to do a trail outside of telluride. Finally made it happen last year on a solo trip. It was 3 lakes to get too moderately difficult 8miles with significant elevation gain. I came prepared with overnight supplies in case the worst happened even tho the plan was only a day hike. Once i got to the second lake i noticed clouds rolling in that were questionable. The trail itself wasnt super busy. The last stretch was less than a mile up but was all exposed. What did i do? Stopped enjoyed the scenery and told myself its okay that i didnt finish the trail id been planning and waiting to do for years. I appreciated the beauty and difficulty i had already seen. Ate my snack and took a long break, then TURNED AROUND and went back down to the trail head. My thoughts were not disappointment i didnt finish, but the adventure getting to that point. And that the mountain will always be there. It gave me a reason to come back and try again with a friend or my husband. Something to look forward to. My safety was more important than finishing to the ending point. I always play it safe vs "finishing" thats where soooo many ppl make this bad mistake. Always trust your gut. If its telling you dont do it or turn around. Do it. Dont ignore it. This is so sad for everyone involved. I hope the family finds closure one of these days.
This comment shoes you are a humble , intelligent woman and you have the ability to see the sunshine behind the clouds..(i just made that up. Lol😂)..but it's true...hood luck on your adventures moving forward
The bigger lesson than your BIG lesson, IMO is to turn around if you see you're on a trail too difficult for you. That seems to be the problem here, and where their lack of experience really shows: they couldn't bring themselves to turn around and leave their goal for another day.
I wish more “hiking influencers” showed themselves turning around when they felt like a trail was unsafe, or they weren’t feeling 100 per cent that day
Eric Sawyer wasn't inexperienced. He'd already climbed 38 of the 58 fourtneers, including Mount of the Holy Cross.
I can't help but notice that the vast majority of all these hiking deaths and tragedies occur when someone is hiking alone. The old adage they taught us in Boy Scouts will save your life. Always hike with a buddy.
I guess she thought he was a buddy.
Have you gotten your fourteenth covid booster yet?
@@ohsweetmystery It doesn't take 14 boosters to know not to hike alone? Sorry to burst your bubble.
@@ohsweetmystery does covid cause brainrot too? Looks like you caught one 😂
5:53 I think the biggest take away of far too many "adventures gone wrong" is "It's never too soon or too late to turn around" or "to turn back" or "to return to base" or what have you. There is always another day, another time to either go on that or a similar adventure.
Altitude Sickness is real and no joke. Healthy, hydrated, fit and relaxed did not prevent my experiencing altitude sickness. All it took was one step closer to 13,000 ft. to nearly pass out. The only warning was feeling a little tired. Retreating a couple of feet back made a world of a difference to feeling better and being conscious. Some members of my group kept hiking and one stayed with me. Hard lesson learned with the right companion!
Yes, it's strange how it is completely random; I have friends who were in much better shape than me have to turn around as well.
I've heard about this one before, but I didn't know that one of her shoes had been found. At least there's maybe a bit of closure for her family and friends 😢
I'm of the mind tho that her hiking partner should not have left her, and should have just turned around at the point where she was lagging behind and he had to help her. Bagging a peak is not so important as your friend's life! The mountain isnt going anywhere, go back and try again when you're better prepared!
I had never heard stories of people mysteriously going missing while hiking prior to the last several years. Prior to hearing these stories, I would have told the person I was with go ahead and summit since he was so close and not worried that it. Now that I know how many people disappear while alone, I would insist on staying together.
Once again we see you never leave a partner in distress..
This was a really challenging one to watch. The experienced hiking partner should feel sick and I'm sure he does. So many questions. How do you let someone go up the mountain ill prepared like that. The moment he realized she didn't have enough water or food for the round trip it's turn around time. The moment he realized she was feeling sick, it's turnaround time. The moment she was struggling to keep up, it's turn around time. And HOW do you leave someone like that. She has no food or water and can't go any further due to sickness and you not only leave her but tell her to wonder off to a "meeting place"? At the very least (and this is till horrible) you tell her to stay right there and you pop up to the summit and return. You could see this if it was two brand new hikers going up together but an experienced hiker to let this happen? What exactly needed to happen for this guy to turn around? What if she had busted her leg? Well, lets keep going, I'm sure you can walk it off. Too many coincidences here. I call BS.
At the 5:34 mark you say it is too late to turn back.
Nay, nay, not a chance. it is NEVER too late to turn back, for NO ONE is moving that mtn next week!
Error #2: Pushing on when their supplies & energy was depleted
Error #3: Splitting up the "group".
Just know that trouble doesn't happen at just one moment. Instead, it is a series of choices (bad choices) and events (events that happen due to bad choices) that will place a hiker in trouble.
I live on a mountaintop and it's only about 800ft above sealevel. Even here the fog rolls in within minutes and weatherchanges happen just as fast. But we learn mountain - safety rules in kindergarten. Must be done when you live in a country like Norway. Still we rescue tourists in droves every summer. Luckily we also have cell coverage in almost 100% of our country. So you won't be stuck on a mountaintop or in the wilderness with no way to get help. ❤🇧🇻
Now,doesn't her guide name some responsibility here? If she was unwell and didn't know where she was going,why on earth did he choose to just let her go off alone?? That just doesn't make any sense to me. He should have known better. How sad!
10:55 Michelle "crossed a boulder field" to connect with another trail. For whatever reason, boulder fields feature prominently in mysterious disappearances in alpine areas and National Parks in the United States. It is probably a good idea to avoid them whenever possible.
Exactly what I was thinking
Hats off to all the volunteer rescuers.
This was still Eric's fault.
Being the more "experienced" hiker you think he would have known to not let someone sick hike down the mountain by themselves.
I lived in Denver for 5 years back in the mid 90's. We took some visitors up Guanella Pass and decided to hike one of the trails. I can't remember, exactly, but I think it may have been the Square Tops Lake trail, which ends at 13,930 feet. Talk about altitude sickness! I ended up having to stop before reaching the top, because I was literally seeing spots. Being above the timberline though, you could see all around. I told my husband and friends to go on, I was parking it right where I was and would see them when they came back. I did not go hiking off on my own. Later, when I was in better physical shape I went back and could get all the way to the top (though high up, it wasn't a hard or long trek). I was so stinking proud of myself. I would recommend hiking up that high if you ever can. It was completely silent, and you could see forever. But be in shape and have alternate plans!
You would NEVER leave your partner if you can tell she was already struggling, let alone have her cross some boulders. Very suspicious.
So you think Eric had something to do with her disappearance too?
@@CJK57 Once he stopped answering questions, oh yeah! His story should have been a simple one, "She wasn't feeling well, she said she was walking back, and who knows where she went." There must have been a lot of holes in his testimony for him to be questioned enough clam up all a sudden & get lawyered-up. If my good friend disappears I would be cooperating to the fullest until we found her.
@REB4444 you may find yourself cooperating into a prison term. The cops are not your friend, they aren't trying to help anyone, they want to close the case and often times don't care who pays for it regardless of guilt or innocence. If they can make something stick, they will.
@@REB4444 I think the point was that he DID provide all that information yet police kept going after the foul play angle since they hadn’t found her. So he did the logical thing and said he wouldn’t answer any more questions and got an attorney. The police are not your friends.
@@JimYeatsA lot of other hikers have cooperated with the police in other cases of disappearances without requesting an attorney.
Altitude sickness has affected me every time I have flown into Denver to vacation in Colorado. The times I have driven into Colorado has allowed my body to adjust to the altitude and avoid the level 10 headaches and nausea.
I grew up in Colo Springs, but after living at sea level for decades all that altitude acclimation is long gone. Even when I drive back out there, The altitude renders me prostrate and gasping,
I can say this… i have 22 peaks in GNP …
And back country skied there and surrounding area …
That guy should never have left her especially to cut across non trail to find trail .
Sooooo easy to miss the trail even when experienced!
Does not matter what she said .
Thats why its sooooo important to have partners who won’t abandon you in thier zeal to summit !
I was fortunate to have had great partners.
I’ll shut up now .
New respect for ppl who deal with altitude….i went skiing in big bear this weekend, a few years since i last did it. I felt nauseous and drowsy after, miserable the whole way down the mountain (thankfully i wasnt driver). I didnt realize it was altitude sickness until later; I thought I hadnt eaten enough. I took one bite of food and felt nauseous. Ugh it’s horrible.
The best advice to my son was "the mountains will be there next time". AT thru hiker 2018. His first attempt 2017 was changed due to heavy snow in the 100 mile wilderness and that was May. His partner want to continue going deeper in the snow. Zack heard my voice in his head and turned around.