@@SimoneBellomonteIf you mean people falling out of it randomly, that was basically the only major "buff" she got for like the first 9 months of the game.
She still has bad hitboxes on a few moves (sthk, crhp, run Lk) and last season they buffed the hitbox of level 3 but it can still miss after using Qcfhp into qcflp mid screen. Also I swear they keep subtly nerfing her at the same time. I used to be able to drive reversal into spray can, doesn't work at all now. Qcfhp or qcfpp used to setup fjhp crossup Bhk easily now it's way harder to do. There's more but they aren't listed and I can't remember all of them.
Her actual problem is she existing in the game instead of a Karin, Ibuki, Mika or even Rose/Menat. the character itself 3D model visuals, animations and SFX, are beyond fixing
This patch is like Capcom saying, "We really miss the Season 1 top tiers, we apologize for the inconvenience this may have caused." And when we say: "Ok, what about the bottom tiers?" They say: "What do you mean?"
Finaly. People are finally seeing what I've been saying for the past year. Personally, i still cannot believe this. Capcom really doesn't care and I hate saying that.
@@EAprimayou are blowing this way out of proportion. "Capcom doesn't care" is just making baseless assumptions. If they didn't care, they wouldn't be doing a mid-season patch at all and would be doing what season 1 was. And none of the buffed characters are as good as they were in season 1 overall, not even close. The only thing with this patch is that it doesn't significantly change the meta like the end-of-season patches do, which was probably their intention.
My best guess is that the "good" characters are in a solid enough place that Capcom feels their ""problems"" can be fixed with smaller changes like this. Stuff like Lily, Manon, Honda, etc all probably require some amount of "back to the drawing board" which might be a bit much of an ask for a smaller patch like this.
Yeah, people are very quick to argue the game's worst characters must get attention first before touching the better ones, but these changes are easier to design on shorter notice. IMO their main priority with this patch is trying to balance these character's *movesets,* less so their overall strength.I wouldn't be surprised if things like the JP 2HP buff might've been motivated by data telling them that JPs aren't using it much for anti air anymore, for example.
They need to retire E Honda for the next SF and make his disciple the sumo representative. A character this bad at top level and soo toxic at low and mid level cant be healthy for the game
@@benross9174 I think it was broski that said SF6 shouldn't have had all the world warrior characters; definitely not both blanka and honda, and dhalsim is "in the wrong game" (i.e. badly suited to relentless attacking style of the game).
Marisa would have been an easy buff, like just revert the armor change that nerfed her at high level, when she was already bad at high level. Because it’s somewhat of an advanced technique that they nerfed (reacting to DI and other armored moves with a full quarter circle to go into stance, rather than a single Button press) It’s a targeted change too that only buffs her at the level she is weakest (her high health and damage output on big mistakes by your opponent make her decent at mid level and good at low level).
They always have their darlings, Ken, Chun, Akuma, Bison and now Luke are consistently strong across every game. But in 6 what really stands out to me is that a lot of the newcomers have some stupid gimmick that makes them very hard to balance (Lily with Spire, Manon with Medals, Jamie with Drinks) so they're just scared of doing anything with them.
But thge Japanese are complaining about these changes. They agree or saying the same thing as the majority of the west. These changes and planning are bad.
@@EAprima in what corner of the internet have you seen that. Cus Jiyuna and pro players from Japan have been talking about nerfs to Gief for a while. So it’s not the Masters players saying that for sure
To me the Bison scissors change was not intended to make the move more punishable, but to make it so that Bison has a harder time trying to spacing trap you afterwards in ranges where a punish isn't possible, thus the patch note talking about Bison continuing pressure after blocked scissors.
I love that I read the notes was like hmm, saw Manon highlighted and then saw it was just a modern combo change. I wasn’t expecting anything but that was a bit rough. And the. Seeing some of the worst MUs get a buff it was weird. Capcom and JP seem to hate grapplers so much, why are they in the game at this point
All the pros that main Luke just need to drop him every few months so Capcom can just buff him more. Can't have the face of the game not getting picked in the big tourneys
I mean most of the Luke players all went abandon ship to Akuma and some of the characters that gotten buff in the previous patch all went to them. Mena for 1 went to playing Zangief soon after.
I will say for the drive reversal changes, even if you've got a high damage punish for drive reversal like Akuma, it might be more worthwhile to go for the throw anyway just for the full 1 bar of drive gauge damage it does. It does at least equalize the equation somewhat, as I can see *any* character going for throw punish, even if they can get better damage elsewhere.
It depends on the situation, see if you want higher damage or drive gauge damage. But that still doesn't change the problem of the drive reversal design, the "privileged" characters have option to go for much higher damage punish combo
It's also a buff to grapplers, who already had a great damaging -6 punish, now they'll be more confident using the H version every time instead of sometimes hedging with the L one.
To be honest this update tracks with most balance changes capcom has made in the past 5 years. They have never really cared about weak characters being weak (like SFV Zangief), in smaller balance patches they have always prioritized adjusting characters who have gotten significantly better/worse.
@@vasilykiselev6285 I think he still can with the obnoxiously timed juggle combo from sa2… ya know, the one that takes you manually timing each drive rush perfectly? Yeah that one he can still break 6k… I think lol they broke his fucking legs man feels bad
@@THE_REEEE_KING yea, no he cannot, only charged dropkick maybe, but if you have enough time to jump on the counter you can do another combo in to lvl3 that does around 6200
@@Zarock01 I’d rather have the corner carry of Ken and his corner pressure than a command grab doing insane damage. Also, Manon would like a word about having a command grab with insane damage and how beneficial that is in tier placement.
@@Zarock01 if only they nerfed the command grab damage and gave headbutt like 10% scaling gief would feel in my opinion a lot more fair to fight against and for me more fun to play, im not the kind of guy to downplay my character i just hate how the big slow grappler does 5700 on punish counter in a game where everyone else does close to 7k
If DR became -4 on block I feel like Dhalsim would find himself in situations where he needed to cr.lp (5 frame) to punish it lmao. His punish game is atrocious at times but it is what it is.
25% initial scaling for Gief hits hard. Only positive is off of drive rush or punish counter I think you can sweep afterwards for OKI. And his jumping headbutt hitbox got buffed so it hits crouching characters easier and I believe it got expanded slightly forward as well.
It's bonkers on two fronts - 1. Gief is linear as heck to begin with. 2. Deejay, JP and Luke are top tier characters that doesn't need any buffing at all!
A good setup, that was very hard to do previous patch, is after OD lariat. You do drive rush head butt, take about 3 steps, and then on connection you get 2 headbutt. Now granted it does a lot less damage but is way easier to land now that it is +8
Akuma can still do SA1 while his OD fireball is on-screen (to punish jumps, etc), the bug was that he could throw a regular fireball while OD was out. Although I'm not sure when that was ever applicable since the OD is usually too fast
I think another notable aspect of the bison "nerf" is it's a bit harder for him to spacing trap, if you cant punish scissor kick you can go for a further reaching move that will check him reliably, not great but it's... something.
As a Luke main in season 1 coming into S2, the nerfs to his crouching lights and medium punch were his most impactful changes. Lots of his previous strings blocking or counter hit no longer worked, which made him awkward to use and far less consistent. The dmg nerfs were deserved, but taking away his best tools from close range had some unintended changes to his pressure. I mean, the Capcom notes even state it as such. So these changes for Luke make a lot of sense to me.
They are most likely testing big Lily and Manon changes. Lily has a very degenerative play style atm. Giving her a small change/buff won’t change that. I think Capcom isn’t sure what to change yet.
@@KingOfDarknessAndEvil her kit was very poorly thought out to begin with, an unga bunga character centered around just one move with no sauce. I don't know wtf they where expecting tbh.
Bizarre patch process, but this will lead to speculation that next time around that the characters not affected this time around will be more heavily considered next time around.
I feel like the other thing the drive reversal change helps with is it universally gives every character a meterless side switch punish. I've had a lot of times where I cornered my opponent n whenever they tried to get out I just did drive reversal to force them back in, now if you try smth like that u could end up giving up the corner.
IMO Luke needed some nerfs before all the new characters got introduced for S1 start of S2. Now there's so much better options (Akuma, Ed), that Luke buffs matter very little anyways.
This patch doesn’t feel like it’s own update to me, so much as it feels like a follow up to the Season 2 patch. It is a bizarre way to tackle the games balance considering that, whilst more characters are closer in strength than ever, the gap between those characters and those outside is still massive
They didn't revert JP's scaling after amnesia, which was a big S1 advantage. Having an anti-air that loses or trades at best was pretty infuriating. People learned they could jump on him with impunity. A little clue into the "weirdness" of patches like this - devs secretly don't actually care about balance for its own sake. It's almost always an exercise in responding to and manipulating player psychology. They care much more about characters being fun to play and will prioritize changes that fulfill that goal first.
what ?! hellstab into lvl 2 is the hardest input in the game hence why you don't even see it a lot even from the most popular Gief's out there not reliable and easy to drop
weird patch for sure, hopefully next patch is more substantial/touches on the weaker characters, right now it feels like honda, lily, manon, marisa, jamie are being forgotten about when theres definitely improvements to be made to them, i know people have a lot of varied thoughts on buffing vs. nerfing more but i think the game will be more enjoyable if they work on making the low tiers better before looking at the high tiers
@SkeebleMan-sg9oi I mean, there is a abime between "this game is perfectly balanced as all things should be and every match-up is 50/50" and "MvC2". No one has said that SF6 is perfectly balanced, but since the year 1 patch it falls in "pretty balanced, but the low tiers really need help".
@@AsAboveSoBelow-g7dtarry is pretty fun. Linking with light kick a lot feels nice, but still figuring out what allows shoulder bash to link to jabs and sometimes it doesn't
I think Dhalsim could use that lvl 1 change to actually chip easier, since grey health counts for chip damage if you take them low enough, easier chip without spending lvl 3
I somewhat see the vision in wanting to see Luke, JP and Dee Jay as more competitive choices in top level play despite the fact they aren't bad even with the nerfs. That being said, this is a really fucking weird patch to do mid season. Extremely significant changes for several characters, but some characters just remain completely untouched. Its a very clearly unbalanced balance patch that feels really weird to be so suddenly plopped out. Not much we can do but keep yelling about how dumb Bipson and Rashid are for the next big patch.
Wonder if they did these buffs first because its easier to predict what theyll do. They have all the data for things like giving JP antiair again. While something like letting Jamie drink more vs buffing his normals would require more testing. Tbh personally i just want some dmg nerfs on Bison and Akuma asap.
I think we need JP to be strong. Having JP as a strong meta pick really cements him as a strong villain. We need to be seeing him as much as we see Bison. Bison being this strong during JP’s weakest season overshadowed JP way too much.
Honestly wish they would have done less buffs this patch, mainly to Ed. And idk how I feel about the Drive Reversal change, I liked the variety before, but throw is a pretty weak punish so alright. Btw DRev needs to be at least -5 on block so you don't lose your turn if you're in burnout. I'm not expecting major until the 6mo patch, anyway. So I'm not bothered by lack of buffs to the low tiers. This was more of a S2 patch revision than a standalone patch by itself.
With the headbutt nerf now I'm just not sure what they think Geif should be doing? Head butt or SPD was the mix up and it was a mojour element of punish combos.
@HellecticMojo not really what I was asking. Just combos starting from lights are really expensive for poor damage, and headbut was an important starter and component of geifs actual damage combos. It's not that there's anything to replace it with. So SPD is our damage? But then where's the other threat?
Another day of basking in the benefits of maining Capcom's favorite Akuma didn't sneak by the without nerfs, he was holding Capcom's hand while they slapped Gief with them
@@dragonic22 Have you read the patch notes? Invincibility to aerial normals from frame 2. In case that hasn't clicked for you. That means a year and a day to react and cleanly beat any jump attempt.
@@Ronin8300 First off, its only on the arm. And It says 2nd ACTIVE frame, not second frame. It's not the frame 2 full body aerial normal invincible anti air you think it is
@dragonic22 Look, I'm not explaining this with the intention of arguing with you. Test it yourself. With those properties JP has virtually perfect antiair. And that is completely obnoxious for a character with his capacity to zone and damage output. In my estimation a poor decision for character balance. But have fun JP players....
I don't really get why Cammy of all character needs nerfs?, I haven't seen one person complain about her, now if we were talking about the DLC misters then yeah, only Akuma and Bison feel like they need to be brought down a notch
I wonder if Capcom will ever realize no one in their right mind likes Luke and the only reason he's somewhat "popular" is because he's been busted since SFV (and now just normalized)
@@charlieharrington9555 Yeah not gonna judge, I just don't get why someone would like some generic looking dude with Karen hair and Popeye arms wearing a What-a-buger shirt whom also has one of the most derivative storylines and plays like a shoto variant.
A street fighter 6 patch that buffed JP and nerfed Gief really just proved that capcoms balance philosophy of this game is just whatever is funny gets a pass
There are two different reasons I think the changes are happening the way they are. The first is that the unchanged characters need bigger sweeping changes that aren't going to be doable in small patches like this. IMO the more likely thing is that Gief being strong simply caused more people to do the game than people joining because of it. Gief players likely weren't not playing the game because he was bad. Grappler mains tend to play the grappler regardless of how strong they are. But I can see a world where people were legit leaving the game because of Zangief being frustrating to play against. I think the new DLC characters starting with Akuma have all been very strong, all probably top 5 (including Terry, though obviously we have no data yet) means Capcom is using updates to Increase players. People may not like to hear it but companies pay attention to things like play data, and it plays a real role in game balance. I think it's easy to see why Grappler are bad in like, every game. Bevause of the one thing that ties every fg company, they're businesses above all else. I'm willing to bet in all games, grapplers are simply hated more than they're loved. Slightly tangent, I think Broski's statement about shoto players being disloyal is relevant here. IMO each shoto release so far, (Luke in SF5, Akuma as the first Shoto DLC, and now Terry) are either clearly better, or at least evenly matched for high tier with slight weaknesses or strengths in either direction. Shot players are going to buy that DLC if it has a shoto better than the one they play or at least MIGHT. If any were clearly worse, they'd lose shoto bucks.
I disagree, while casuals make up the majority the Akuma boom was because he's always been an extra popular character. My time with smash has shown me people like the big punching bags like Geif because they can mash more, it's the zoners they can't stand. Ironically Akuma and JP are some of the best at that and they're Capcom favorites. Casuals also don't know shit about frame data and are getting gobbled up by scissor kick, I feel like that's more likely to cause a rage drop than getting grappled.
Probably some truth to this. Although if this was the main reasoning then damage nerf for Akuma would make sense and Bison dmg would be gutted. Also Bison scissor kick would have been nerfed too since that is a scrub killer and good at high tier play too.
@@Substantial-hf1rm Heavies in smash are not at all comparable to grapplers. Heavies in smash have been unplayable for most of series, that's only been slightly fixed in Ultimate. Maybe late smash 4 bowser and DK, and Ultimate DK you could argue because of crazy early grab kills. But none of them are especially crazy up close or make you guess like grapplers do in traditional fighters
As a Gief player, I'm not too mad about the nerfs. It actually makes a lot of setups easier and more consistent. BUT I am mad about the JP buffs and the Bison non-nerf. JP was already an annoying matchup but now it's just nightmare land.
My only major disappointment is that there's nothing for Ryu OR a notable nerf for Akuma, I like playing both but ever since Akuma dropped ESPECIALLY with his better fireballs I feel like I'm throwing if I play Ryu, at least when it was just Ryu vs Ken vs Luke it's not like Ken's fireball was just better and Luke's being instant didn't make it always better since sometimes you want a slow fireball, now Akuma just has the typical shoto fireball but it comes out faster and can be charged, it's kinda insane how I can throw out an uncharged fireball against any shoto's ex fireball and still have time to block the ex fireball
22:16 this also makes drive rush headbutt (which you usually get from a counter hit 2mp) able to combo into a sweep. Not sure if this is even remotely useful, but that might’ve been the idea.
@@SimoneBellomonte the drive system and punish counter affecting the frames of each move the same helps so much, allows you to build your own offense.. I was a Tekken nerd in 7 hate the “aggressive” style, would be fine if movement was strong. Everyone is plus all the time unlike SF6 where you need to DR to get plus frames usually Edit: got to platinum with Akuma and just bought a hitbox love SF6
they made Luke the poster boy and then realized that he needs to be among the strongest characters to be relevant since almost no one actually likes him
Picture this: Dalsim makes you lose all your meter (which he can do kind of easy) and your low on health. Yeah he’s going to chip the crap out of you and maybe get the kill.
![Blox Fruits Dragon Rework Update [Full Stream]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/EqDAp8udhm0/mqdefault.jpg)
biggest winner of this patch is probably Terry, I think you can move him out of unplayable tier on your old tierlist
No Manon buffs. Can’t have shit in Paris
Did they fix her SA2 yet?
@@SimoneBellomonte they did that a few patches ago iirc
@@SimoneBellomonteIf you mean people falling out of it randomly, that was basically the only major "buff" she got for like the first 9 months of the game.
@@meatwadisgod well her back HP is +1 since season 2, but I don't think the sa2 is consistent and she's still sewer tier.
Actually you can. Just swim in the Seine :)
Kimberly will be the captain falcon of this game. Constant buffs that never once address her actual problems.
She still has bad hitboxes on a few moves (sthk, crhp, run Lk) and last season they buffed the hitbox of level 3 but it can still miss after using Qcfhp into qcflp mid screen. Also I swear they keep subtly nerfing her at the same time. I used to be able to drive reversal into spray can, doesn't work at all now. Qcfhp or qcfpp used to setup fjhp crossup Bhk easily now it's way harder to do. There's more but they aren't listed and I can't remember all of them.
Her actual problem is she existing in the game instead of a Karin, Ibuki, Mika or even Rose/Menat. the character itself 3D model visuals, animations and SFX, are beyond fixing
@@SadiCWIn32exe god forbid we get a hot black woman in the game
@@SadiCWIn32exeStreet fighter fans when new character
@@SadiCWIn32exePLEASE explain this take in a way that doesn't make it into a race thing, I'm dying to hear it.
This patch is like Capcom saying, "We really miss the Season 1 top tiers, we apologize for the inconvenience this may have caused."
And when we say: "Ok, what about the bottom tiers?"
They say: "What do you mean?"
And then when Marisa asked to get the same treatment, Capcom said no.
Finaly. People are finally seeing what I've been saying for the past year. Personally, i still cannot believe this. Capcom really doesn't care and I hate saying that.
@@EAprimayou are blowing this way out of proportion. "Capcom doesn't care" is just making baseless assumptions. If they didn't care, they wouldn't be doing a mid-season patch at all and would be doing what season 1 was. And none of the buffed characters are as good as they were in season 1 overall, not even close. The only thing with this patch is that it doesn't significantly change the meta like the end-of-season patches do, which was probably their intention.
Capcom reinstates the Season 1 top tiers but Chun missed the bus
@@NebulaOak Actually they said fuck no
My best guess is that the "good" characters are in a solid enough place that Capcom feels their ""problems"" can be fixed with smaller changes like this.
Stuff like Lily, Manon, Honda, etc all probably require some amount of "back to the drawing board" which might be a bit much of an ask for a smaller patch like this.
Dhalsim could be fixed by making his long range pokes safe IMO
Yeah, people are very quick to argue the game's worst characters must get attention first before touching the better ones, but these changes are easier to design on shorter notice.
IMO their main priority with this patch is trying to balance these character's *movesets,* less so their overall strength.I wouldn't be surprised if things like the JP 2HP buff might've been motivated by data telling them that JPs aren't using it much for anti air anymore, for example.
They need to retire E Honda for the next SF and make his disciple the sumo representative. A character this bad at top level and soo toxic at low and mid level cant be healthy for the game
@@benross9174 I think it was broski that said SF6 shouldn't have had all the world warrior characters; definitely not both blanka and honda, and dhalsim is "in the wrong game" (i.e. badly suited to relentless attacking style of the game).
Marisa would have been an easy buff, like just revert the armor change that nerfed her at high level, when she was already bad at high level. Because it’s somewhat of an advanced technique that they nerfed (reacting to DI and other armored moves with a full quarter circle to go into stance, rather than a single Button press) It’s a targeted change too that only buffs her at the level she is weakest (her high health and damage output on big mistakes by your opponent make her decent at mid level and good at low level).
WIND! SPINNING MIXER! OOH HAHA! CYCLONE! SPINNING MIXER! OOH HAHA! I SUMMON GREAT DESSERT STORM! OOH HAHA! SPINNING MIXER! OOH HAHA! SUPER RASHID KICK!
RAGING WIND! COME TO ME!
It's the same shit with over and over.
What the hell happened to Rashid man? He was so cool in the last game
i can hear this comment
I guess Capcom just has certain characters they want to be better than others.
They always have their darlings, Ken, Chun, Akuma, Bison and now Luke are consistently strong across every game.
But in 6 what really stands out to me is that a lot of the newcomers have some stupid gimmick that makes them very hard to balance (Lily with Spire, Manon with Medals, Jamie with Drinks) so they're just scared of doing anything with them.
This is unsurprising, to me, at least. And they’ve done a mostly beautiful job of it. With the notable exception of a few DLC dudes, of course.
It is what it is. I main Jamie and Manon. At this point, I know what I signed up for.
Such as, dlc
Yes, literally. Considering, the balance is pretty great. There are strong characters of every archetype.
This comment only affects Dee Jay.
XD
This reply only affects Dee Jay
Honestly this feels like CapCom only listens to the Japanese meta. They’ve been talking up Gief and begging for Luke buffs
Capcom historically always had, they’re nearing Wargaming levels of favoritism
But Ed buffs? Why?
@@user-et3xn2jm1uEd's actually pretty popular in Japan
But thge Japanese are complaining about these changes. They agree or saying the same thing as the majority of the west. These changes and planning are bad.
@@EAprima in what corner of the internet have you seen that. Cus Jiyuna and pro players from Japan have been talking about nerfs to Gief for a while. So it’s not the Masters players saying that for sure
Capcom did this to hurt me personally
I think they hurted tons of us.
@EAprima yes indeed
They don't even care about you bro 😂😂😂😂
Yes. My uncle works at Capcom and he said this was specifically meant to hurt Jorgec224.
This almost seems like the buffs and nerfs was specifically region influenced and not the whole community in its entirety.
The drive reversal change is a big buff for manon cuz she wants HP grab. Now it’ll be consistent instead of maybe
good point, but who drive reversals manon? XD
@@DeathDasein Manon does 🥴
Many ppl were expecting a balance patch because Capcom said there would be a balance patch
This is the "we are filled with regrets" patch
God awful patch overall. Buffing JP and Luke who were and have always been in the upper half of the cast is just a gigantic slap in the face.
To me the Bison scissors change was not intended to make the move more punishable, but to make it so that Bison has a harder time trying to spacing trap you afterwards in ranges where a punish isn't possible, thus the patch note talking about Bison continuing pressure after blocked scissors.
This is what I thought as well
Yes it was, bison could do 3 lights into scissors ob and a sizeable part of the roster couldn't punish it. That shit was braindead af
Tbh this makes sense if they’re working on bigger changes for the other characters, and wanted to push some of the smaller stuff out the door.
I love that I read the notes was like hmm, saw Manon highlighted and then saw it was just a modern combo change. I wasn’t expecting anything but that was a bit rough. And the. Seeing some of the worst MUs get a buff it was weird. Capcom and JP seem to hate grapplers so much, why are they in the game at this point
All the pros that main Luke just need to drop him every few months so Capcom can just buff him more. Can't have the face of the game not getting picked in the big tourneys
not the luke boycott
I mean most of the Luke players all went abandon ship to Akuma and some of the characters that gotten buff in the previous patch all went to them. Mena for 1 went to playing Zangief soon after.
@@akilcharles3473 I think that was more a protest over the Blanka nerfs on Mena's part. Could be wrong
*Laughs in Ryu being low tier for 80% of SFV*
I will say for the drive reversal changes, even if you've got a high damage punish for drive reversal like Akuma, it might be more worthwhile to go for the throw anyway just for the full 1 bar of drive gauge damage it does. It does at least equalize the equation somewhat, as I can see *any* character going for throw punish, even if they can get better damage elsewhere.
It depends on the situation, see if you want higher damage or drive gauge damage. But that still doesn't change the problem of the drive reversal design, the "privileged" characters have option to go for much higher damage punish combo
It's also a buff to grapplers, who already had a great damaging -6 punish, now they'll be more confident using the H version every time instead of sometimes hedging with the L one.
To be honest this update tracks with most balance changes capcom has made in the past 5 years. They have never really cared about weak characters being weak (like SFV Zangief), in smaller balance patches they have always prioritized adjusting characters who have gotten significantly better/worse.
Like Marisa?
Gief cannot break 6k barrier now without pc jump and ca, thats some great balancing
@@vasilykiselev6285 I think he still can with the obnoxiously timed juggle combo from sa2… ya know, the one that takes you manually timing each drive rush perfectly? Yeah that one he can still break 6k… I think
lol they broke his fucking legs man feels bad
@@THE_REEEE_KING yea, no he cannot, only charged dropkick maybe, but if you have enough time to jump on the counter you can do another combo in to lvl3 that does around 6200
If only he had access to a command grab doing insane damage.
@@Zarock01 I’d rather have the corner carry of Ken and his corner pressure than a command grab doing insane damage. Also, Manon would like a word about having a command grab with insane damage and how beneficial that is in tier placement.
@@Zarock01 if only they nerfed the command grab damage and gave headbutt like 10% scaling gief would feel in my opinion a lot more fair to fight against and for me more fun to play, im not the kind of guy to downplay my character i just hate how the big slow grappler does 5700 on punish counter in a game where everyone else does close to 7k
If DR became -4 on block I feel like Dhalsim would find himself in situations where he needed to cr.lp (5 frame) to punish it lmao. His punish game is atrocious at times but it is what it is.
They could just expand the hurtbox like the throw thing and it would make it consistent
25% initial scaling for Gief hits hard. Only positive is off of drive rush or punish counter I think you can sweep afterwards for OKI. And his jumping headbutt hitbox got buffed so it hits crouching characters easier and I believe it got expanded slightly forward as well.
It's bonkers on two fronts - 1. Gief is linear as heck to begin with. 2. Deejay, JP and Luke are top tier characters that doesn't need any buffing at all!
@@EAprima deejay got nerfed pretty hard last patch and JP not having a decent anti-air I understand. The Luke buff was 100% unnecessary
A good setup, that was very hard to do previous patch, is after OD lariat. You do drive rush head butt, take about 3 steps, and then on connection you get 2 headbutt. Now granted it does a lot less damage but is way easier to land now that it is +8
Akuma can still do SA1 while his OD fireball is on-screen (to punish jumps, etc), the bug was that he could throw a regular fireball while OD was out. Although I'm not sure when that was ever applicable since the OD is usually too fast
I think another notable aspect of the bison "nerf" is it's a bit harder for him to spacing trap, if you cant punish scissor kick you can go for a further reaching move that will check him reliably, not great but it's... something.
The game still seems centralized around either really degenerate damage or having a really degenerate level 2.
Oh boy. If I hadn't already stopped playing due to injury, this would be the patch that made me do it.
As a Luke main in season 1 coming into S2, the nerfs to his crouching lights and medium punch were his most impactful changes. Lots of his previous strings blocking or counter hit no longer worked, which made him awkward to use and far less consistent. The dmg nerfs were deserved, but taking away his best tools from close range had some unintended changes to his pressure. I mean, the Capcom notes even state it as such. So these changes for Luke make a lot of sense to me.
Thanks!
The bison change was for clarity probably so that players are no longer “not grasping the situation”
They are most likely testing big Lily and Manon changes. Lily has a very degenerative play style atm. Giving her a small change/buff won’t change that. I think Capcom isn’t sure what to change yet.
that's some major copium
@@penguinmaster16one can hope
Game has been out for over a year and they still aren't sure wtf to do with her lol
@@penguinmaster16 Randuum would say otherwise, he's been killing it on the online circuit with Manon winning tournaments with her.
@@KingOfDarknessAndEvil her kit was very poorly thought out to begin with, an unga bunga character centered around just one move with no sauce. I don't know wtf they where expecting tbh.
Bizarre patch process, but this will lead to speculation that next time around that the characters not affected this time around will be more heavily considered next time around.
I feel like the other thing the drive reversal change helps with is it universally gives every character a meterless side switch punish. I've had a lot of times where I cornered my opponent n whenever they tried to get out I just did drive reversal to force them back in, now if you try smth like that u could end up giving up the corner.
IMO Luke needed some nerfs before all the new characters got introduced for S1 start of S2. Now there's so much better options (Akuma, Ed), that Luke buffs matter very little anyways.
This patch doesn’t feel like it’s own update to me, so much as it feels like a follow up to the Season 2 patch. It is a bizarre way to tackle the games balance considering that, whilst more characters are closer in strength than ever, the gap between those characters and those outside is still massive
They nerfed Jamie by a bug fix (ok it was only 75 damage but still)
They didn't revert JP's scaling after amnesia, which was a big S1 advantage. Having an anti-air that loses or trades at best was pretty infuriating. People learned they could jump on him with impunity. A little clue into the "weirdness" of patches like this - devs secretly don't actually care about balance for its own sake. It's almost always an exercise in responding to and manipulating player psychology. They care much more about characters being fun to play and will prioritize changes that fulfill that goal first.
JP was just on vacation
I think the JP 2HP means only the arm have AA s like Manon whereas before it was his entire upper body and led to ridiculously consistent AAs.
*Cries in muscle mommy sadness*
When's the actual balance patch coming?
Appreciate the breakdown. Thanks broski!
what ?! hellstab into lvl 2 is the hardest input in the game hence why you don't even see it a lot even from the most popular Gief's out there not reliable and easy to drop
The fixed guile, but in exchange they get to insult every other player.
weird patch for sure, hopefully next patch is more substantial/touches on the weaker characters, right now it feels like honda, lily, manon, marisa, jamie are being forgotten about when theres definitely improvements to be made to them, i know people have a lot of varied thoughts on buffing vs. nerfing more but i think the game will be more enjoyable if they work on making the low tiers better before looking at the high tiers
This has been said every patch for a year and a half now. But people will call me a scrub for saying the game isnt balanced
I WAS ABOUT TO COMMENT THE SAME TJING LMFAO@@SkeebleMan-sg9oi
@SkeebleMan-sg9oi I mean, there is a abime between "this game is perfectly balanced as all things should be and every match-up is 50/50" and "MvC2". No one has said that SF6 is perfectly balanced, but since the year 1 patch it falls in "pretty balanced, but the low tiers really need help".
As a Marisa player, I think its time I take a break from SF6 . Held out hope for to long.😭
Sub terry, that's my plan as a marisa player.
@@AsAboveSoBelow-g7dtarry is pretty fun. Linking with light kick a lot feels nice, but still figuring out what allows shoulder bash to link to jabs and sometimes it doesn't
@@Crouton-spacing dependent. And it's a link instead of a buffer.
Just drop her
I would like it if all Dee Jay’s attacks did 10,000 damage per hit without scaling. It wouldn’t be enough but it’s a work in progress.
This has got to be one of the crappiest balance patches outside dbfz in years.
What’s wrong with the Dbfz patches?
@@charlieharrington9555 they butchered the game with each successive update starting around lab coat 21
I think Dhalsim could use that lvl 1 change to actually chip easier, since grey health counts for chip damage if you take them low enough, easier chip without spending lvl 3
I somewhat see the vision in wanting to see Luke, JP and Dee Jay as more competitive choices in top level play despite the fact they aren't bad even with the nerfs. That being said, this is a really fucking weird patch to do mid season. Extremely significant changes for several characters, but some characters just remain completely untouched. Its a very clearly unbalanced balance patch that feels really weird to be so suddenly plopped out. Not much we can do but keep yelling about how dumb Bipson and Rashid are for the next big patch.
Please Menard, win a championship with Ken now, PLEASE
Is Bison's throw box still closer to you after Scissors?
Wonder if they did these buffs first because its easier to predict what theyll do. They have all the data for things like giving JP antiair again. While something like letting Jamie drink more vs buffing his normals would require more testing. Tbh personally i just want some dmg nerfs on Bison and Akuma asap.
I think we need JP to be strong. Having JP as a strong meta pick really cements him as a strong villain. We need to be seeing him as much as we see Bison. Bison being this strong during JP’s weakest season overshadowed JP way too much.
Honestly wish they would have done less buffs this patch, mainly to Ed. And idk how I feel about the Drive Reversal change, I liked the variety before, but throw is a pretty weak punish so alright. Btw DRev needs to be at least -5 on block so you don't lose your turn if you're in burnout.
I'm not expecting major until the 6mo patch, anyway. So I'm not bothered by lack of buffs to the low tiers. This was more of a S2 patch revision than a standalone patch by itself.
Bison's scissors are still balanced like they're a charge move despite not being one thanks to modern.
I’m convinced every time Capcom employees go to work, they are required to spit on a picture of Jamie to gain entry.
"Is this an out of season April's fools joke?"
With the headbutt nerf now I'm just not sure what they think Geif should be doing? Head butt or SPD was the mix up and it was a mojour element of punish combos.
You still do headbutt because it's plus. Only real usage change is the knee for demanding spacing
@HellecticMojo not really what I was asking. Just combos starting from lights are really expensive for poor damage, and headbut was an important starter and component of geifs actual damage combos. It's not that there's anything to replace it with. So SPD is our damage? But then where's the other threat?
@@josephmcgivern2735 SPD is the damage option.
Thx for the update, it kinda sucks that we don’t get to see replays from prior versions. Really bummer - why Capcom?
The bison nerf was really good for Chun li players. St LK to Mk legs would drop half the time. Not anymore though.
Another day of basking in the benefits of maining Capcom's favorite
Akuma didn't sneak by the without nerfs, he was holding Capcom's hand while they slapped Gief with them
I dont like the drive reversal nerf. Seems like a sterilization of the mechanic. Which sf6 doesnt need more of.
Same, I’d rather just those specific characters without a 6 frame medium get the throw punish instead of making it universal across the board
play the neutral
JP gets back that war crime of a crouch fierce. Seriously, Capcom...
Man, have you even tested it?
@@dragonic22 Have you read the patch notes? Invincibility to aerial normals from frame 2. In case that hasn't clicked for you. That means a year and a day to react and cleanly beat any jump attempt.
@@Ronin8300 First off, its only on the arm. And It says 2nd ACTIVE frame, not second frame. It's not the frame 2 full body aerial normal invincible anti air you think it is
@dragonic22 Look, I'm not explaining this with the intention of arguing with you. Test it yourself. With those properties JP has virtually perfect antiair. And that is completely obnoxious for a character with his capacity to zone and damage output. In my estimation a poor decision for character balance. But have fun JP players....
It’s crazy how jp players act like the zoner that fights full screen is entitled a one button dp to keep you from closing the gap.
I don't really get why Cammy of all character needs nerfs?, I haven't seen one person complain about her, now if we were talking about the DLC misters then yeah, only Akuma and Bison feel like they need to be brought down a notch
I think he's just exaggerating. It's personally one of he's worst match ups
I wonder if Capcom will ever realize no one in their right mind likes Luke and the only reason he's somewhat "popular" is because he's been busted since SFV (and now just normalized)
Nah Luke’s cool speak for yourself
@@charlieharrington9555 Yeah not gonna judge, I just don't get why someone would like some generic looking dude with Karen hair and Popeye arms wearing a What-a-buger shirt whom also has one of the most derivative storylines and plays like a shoto variant.
Someone high at capcom is a ken main and akuma as pocket istg💀
Facts. What a weird patch
I swear to God. Ken will always be top 5 😭😭😭
if this is what the patch looks like, I'm pretty sure everyone is "high at Capcom"
@@Switcheroo4542 Facts
@@TheFGC_Terminatorlet’s hope so 😊
A street fighter 6 patch that buffed JP and nerfed Gief really just proved that capcoms balance philosophy of this game is just whatever is funny gets a pass
It’s actually: “What will the Fortnite players like?”
@@HashTheGrapplerbro what are you on about 😂
As a Gief main… we’re basically biting our nails every time there’s a server update 😬
Don’t worry, they will just keep nerfing him until nobody plays him. Fortnite players don’t like command grabs
The nerf on Gief was fair, when capcom gave him a faster startup on lariat or something good to AA...
There are two different reasons I think the changes are happening the way they are.
The first is that the unchanged characters need bigger sweeping changes that aren't going to be doable in small patches like this.
IMO the more likely thing is that Gief being strong simply caused more people to do the game than people joining because of it. Gief players likely weren't not playing the game because he was bad. Grappler mains tend to play the grappler regardless of how strong they are. But I can see a world where people were legit leaving the game because of Zangief being frustrating to play against. I think the new DLC characters starting with Akuma have all been very strong, all probably top 5 (including Terry, though obviously we have no data yet) means Capcom is using updates to Increase players.
People may not like to hear it but companies pay attention to things like play data, and it plays a real role in game balance. I think it's easy to see why Grappler are bad in like, every game. Bevause of the one thing that ties every fg company, they're businesses above all else. I'm willing to bet in all games, grapplers are simply hated more than they're loved.
Slightly tangent, I think Broski's statement about shoto players being disloyal is relevant here. IMO each shoto release so far, (Luke in SF5, Akuma as the first Shoto DLC, and now Terry) are either clearly better, or at least evenly matched for high tier with slight weaknesses or strengths in either direction. Shot players are going to buy that DLC if it has a shoto better than the one they play or at least MIGHT. If any were clearly worse, they'd lose shoto bucks.
Yeah, fair enough. Balancing a fighting game is so darn difficult. :/
I disagree, while casuals make up the majority the Akuma boom was because he's always been an extra popular character. My time with smash has shown me people like the big punching bags like Geif because they can mash more, it's the zoners they can't stand. Ironically Akuma and JP are some of the best at that and they're Capcom favorites.
Casuals also don't know shit about frame data and are getting gobbled up by scissor kick, I feel like that's more likely to cause a rage drop than getting grappled.
Probably some truth to this. Although if this was the main reasoning then damage nerf for Akuma would make sense and Bison dmg would be gutted. Also Bison scissor kick would have been nerfed too since that is a scrub killer and good at high tier play too.
@@Substantial-hf1rm Heavies in smash are not at all comparable to grapplers. Heavies in smash have been unplayable for most of series, that's only been slightly fixed in Ultimate.
Maybe late smash 4 bowser and DK, and Ultimate DK you could argue because of crazy early grab kills. But none of them are especially crazy up close or make you guess like grapplers do in traditional fighters
I think a new player would fucking hate playing against JP way more than against zangief.
You're not the only one who was hoping they'd tweak Great Desert Storm. 😞
As a Gief player, I'm not too mad about the nerfs. It actually makes a lot of setups easier and more consistent. BUT I am mad about the JP buffs and the Bison non-nerf. JP was already an annoying matchup but now it's just nightmare land.
Would Drive Reversal being -4 on block make it too safe?
does capcom know what capcom is doing?
I am fine with the forward mk zangief nerf but why did they kill Forward Heavy Punch again 😭
Hmph. Why does Capcom hate Gief so much, I wonder.
AKI Buff let's gooo
My only major disappointment is that there's nothing for Ryu OR a notable nerf for Akuma, I like playing both but ever since Akuma dropped ESPECIALLY with his better fireballs I feel like I'm throwing if I play Ryu, at least when it was just Ryu vs Ken vs Luke it's not like Ken's fireball was just better and Luke's being instant didn't make it always better since sometimes you want a slow fireball, now Akuma just has the typical shoto fireball but it comes out faster and can be charged, it's kinda insane how I can throw out an uncharged fireball against any shoto's ex fireball and still have time to block the ex fireball
This is the Smash Bros Nintendo balance update 😂😂😂😂😂😂
i also read it wrong and thought ed’s super meter gain was reduced by 80%. was mad at work all day for no reason 😂
Lol
All these changes and they choose to bully Gief and leave Rashid alone. There is no justice
Tbf that zangief stuff was kinda obnoxious lol
@@Crouton-Oh yeah but the instant win tornado wasn't?
@@cosmic5665not that much since it's metered at least.
Meter doesn't justify a super being a win condition
@@cosmic5665 oh no yeah that's annoying too lol
As a Luke main i approve the luke buffing
Dang no more double lvl 2 super corner combo for Ed.
22:16 this also makes drive rush headbutt (which you usually get from a counter hit 2mp) able to combo into a sweep. Not sure if this is even remotely useful, but that might’ve been the idea.
How did akuma and ken not get nerfed
This game is amazing, so happy I jumped ship from Tekken (8 isn’t as fun to play) 😂
Ikr, Street Fighter has the most genius design with the Drive System, it gives every1 equal options, Tekken only rewards aggressives. 💀
@@SimoneBellomonte the drive system and punish counter affecting the frames of each move the same helps so much, allows you to build your own offense..
I was a Tekken nerd in 7 hate the “aggressive” style, would be fine if movement was strong.
Everyone is plus all the time unlike SF6 where you need to DR to get plus frames usually
Edit: got to platinum with Akuma and just bought a hitbox love SF6
@@Guitar-Dogkeep going bro you’ll be Master Rank in no time!
@@Aguibeee that’s the goal, struggling to pick a character that isn’t Akuma.
Waiting for Oro to get announced 😂
Bought SF5 just to play Oro
Same here. Tekken 8 basically turns into Strive when heat is activated. But I'm positive the game will get better with time just like 7
they made Luke the poster boy and then realized that he needs to be among the strongest characters to be relevant since almost no one actually likes him
To be fair, somebody has to be the...sole bad guy...of the SF 6 meta.
I'll be here all week.
Terry’s got sauce
Oh yeah this is Capcom saying, Zangief cant be in the tournaments.
Picture this: Dalsim makes you lose all your meter (which he can do kind of easy) and your low on health. Yeah he’s going to chip the crap out of you and maybe get the kill.
shhhhhh 🤫
JP making moves
I think Dhalsim level 1 got buffed on block because it was minus 15 before
another day another patch where jamie receives no meaningful buffs while luke gets the goods.
It’s sad. I was looking forward to Mena playing more Gief but now he’s probably just gonna go back to Luke instead
He said bison on twitter
Better Luke than going Akuma like usage rate for this character is annoyingly large. And besides he won CPT with this character.
Mena’s gief was so fun to watch
Capcom: "Luke, JP, DJ are too weak, we need to buff them."
Jamie, Honda, Marisa, Lily players: "You say what??"
Got into this game in Season 2 and mained JP. Very excited to actually experience a consistent anti air and hopefully get master rank
His cr.hp isn't why you're not in master
he didnt say that
@@mattoi_ I'm just being mean
😂😂😂😂😂@@riotstamp
@@riotstampthat unnironically could be correct lol.
Broski you should consider becoming an voice actor 18:15
I think you should go back to JPeak