That presentation was very good ! I did not know why the Lackawanna Cutoff was discontinued. I am looking foreward to seeing it being reopened again. Thank You !
Gordon: Since making it, the various commenters continue to drop gems about the reason for closing. People are so knowledgeable -- so much more than I am. Still, I do my best to share what little I learn even as I continue to find new things. Some of these are not pleasant. I've just made 3 1/2 videos about antisemitism. Not a happy topic. Hard to believe it has been coming out of the woodwork lately. Regards, Mike
Dino: Thanks for the compliment, but, and there's always a "but," no credit is due. The world is filled with things that amaze - from the small to the huge. No matter where you look it's that way. Today I just posted about wanting to go swimming, and the little story shared with me when I couldn't. Enjoy.
Chuck's series is incredible, but what I do is for a different purpose: practical lessons to remind: you help yourself when you help others. That written, thank you for the compliment, but it is easy to add something new to our understanding of history. Am just about to post my #130. Each picture I added led me into an hour of research because there is just so much that is interesting. Stay safe!
The fills are still incredible to contemplate. On the Cutoff--apparently no speed restrictions around curves, no slow-downs on hills, double track, Wow! What a vision. I watch Chuck Walsh's uploads on the Cut-off too. I think he's up to #20.
The fills are impossible for me to imagine anyone coming up with the idea -- and then making it a reality. Almost more difficult to imagine is that they walked away from it; giving it away to be used for fill elsewhere. Glad it was saved; hope it will be put to good use. The sort of thing that make American Great! Chuck's videos are part of what I used to make my videos. Thanks for watching. My latest is about the French attempt to build a canal across Panama. Incredible in a different way.
You all prolly dont give a damn but does anyone know a trick to get back into an Instagram account..? I stupidly lost my account password. I appreciate any tips you can offer me
@Briggs Malcolm i really appreciate your reply. I found the site on google and im trying it out atm. I see it takes quite some time so I will get back to you later with my results.
@@BeMoreBetter The EL continued on until the 1991 selling assets. Con Job bought the east end of the railroad for 600 million dollars. The Erie was worth more dead than running so Wall Street killed it and made a fortune doing it. I had one share to follow what happened. I still have my last EL check for 15 cents from 1992 Con Job only bought the assets. They wanted nothing to do with the money EL owed and the pollution they left behind.
I've always been fascinated by the Iron Horse. You'd think the remaining infrastructure could have been reused. Am working on a trilogy about Grand Central Terminal. I keep finding more information that is interesting.
Thanks for the compliment. Making each is a learning experience for me. Then there are comments from guys like Pat Kruger -- and the learning continues. The later videos are far better than the earlier ones -- another way I'm learning. But don't forget, these are intended to remind: Get better, by making others so. Tell me what you think of the next ones.
You make good points, but ignore one other important reason: After the Erie/Lackawanna merger in 1960, the dominant management team was mostly from the Erie. Whenever duplicate trackage had to be trimmed down, it was always the Lackawanna trackage that got the ax, even though the Lackawanna physical plant was generally in better shape than Erie. Years later, in the Conrail era, an ex-Erie official admitting that abandoning the Cutoff was a huge mistake.
Great information on the New Jersey cutoff on the Lackawanna railroad. I have on my coffee table the book Trackside around Scranton, PA 1952 to 1976. It has short stories on the railroads before Conrail. The Lehigh Valley where 7 members of my family worked on it out of Coxton Yard. My paternal grandfathers longtime friend worked on the Lackawanna which became the Erie Lackawanna on my 7th. Birthday October 17,1960. I'm an N scale model railroaded & my model railroad is the Pacific West Coast.
Chris: You and I were both born in 1953, but, and there's always a "but," it is my plan to be 29 on my next birthday. Thanks for the compliment. RRs are amazing. They made America. I just posted my second video on NYC's GCT. It has an invisible 17.5 foot tall statue outside it. Invisible. Hope you enjoy it. I grew up above the Williamstown Valley -- about 100 miles to your south.
Thank you for this information. I’m a fan of this railroad. Didn’t know that the n mine accident and the hurricane really did them in. Thanks. What a beautiful railroad.
Talked to some former Conrail employees that went back to the E- L days. They tell me that the traffic in the early 70's was being moved to the Greenwood Lake - Boonton line while the Erie side was being downgraded from double to single track. With the grades in Great Notch and Little Falls in addition to the passenger trains the people along the line were going batshit crazy and a wreck in Montclair was the deciding factor in moving traffic towards the Erie side. The Ford plant in Mahwah was still going at the time and those auto parts in and finished cars out are what saved the tier back then
The complexity of the story continues to amaze me. That was only 50 years ago, and so getting insight from those involved at the time is still possible. Thank you for sharing. Mike
Garth: Thanks for the compliment. Am not a Railroad expert, but it seems the infrastructure that was built should be preserved for future uses. The cutoff would cost a billion dollars to rebuild (in today[s money). The idea that they were going to dismantle it astounds. Mike
At 2:27 is CR 6669 formerly EL 3638. I saw 3638 once as EL. I would catch 6669 many times. All still in red/white/blue. CR 6670 is the only surviving SDP45 in the USA.
It is always a pleasure to "meet" people who are so much more knowledgeable about so many subjects than I... and there are so many things to know! Enjoy your day, and thank you. Mike
Thank you for such a nice note. it is always a pleasure to read that others are leaning and enjoying what I do -- hopefully, that I'm doing better as time goes by. Stay safe!
It's never going to happen. They missed multiple opportunities 25 years ago to get this boondoggle of a project done. The cost is going to be astronomical to rebuild all the track signal and PTC for minimal ridership.
Terrific summary of the demise of the Cutoff and the mighty EL. When any of you out there have the time and resources,, visit Scranton, PA and Steamtown National Historic Park and enjoy the roundhouse and ongoing yard work by restored Alcos and other classic locomotives. Thanks.
Thanks for the compliment. Steamtown is wonderful. One amazing thing it has is a loco cut in half -- lengthwise -- to show how it works. Thanks for reminding me. The pictures of the busy area in the 1950s compared to the quiet one decades later are sad.
Mike just revisited this site where you discuss the cutoff. Funny in today’s world I see a renaissance in rail travel. It is exciting! America and Canada have beautiful scenery seen from the railroad. The adventure of traveling by train to faraway places may again be happening. Imagine traveling to Chicago on a newly rebuilt Twentieth Century limited train outfitted with the exact same livery as they did in the thirties and forties with the streamlined J on the front end. The red carpet in Grand Central station as well. Or the long slant nosed E6 GM diesel pulling the orange blossom special to Florida.
Garth??? At this time of the Birth of Christ, you touch upon something important... to look and marvel at the world around us... including the people in our lives... and not just family, but, and there's always a "but," friends and neighbors. In fact, my sixth book (WIP, like books 3, 4, and 5) is some Rules of Life -- like the one that says, "Take care of your team." Your team are your people. If you go into a store, you are a shopper of that store. All other shoppers are your people. Now, repeat this in every instance of your life. You have lots of people to enjoy. Am now doing some videos to try and deal with antisemitism. On my list for later, are some Victorian-Era Railroad Bridges. So much to see and marvel at. Have a Blessed Christmas. Mike
My dad always told me stories of the Knox mine disaster his grandfather was a politician and went to go see it with him and watched the train cars get sucked into the hole and remembered people telling him the river will flow into it forever
Glad the video reminded you of family. The research into the video was a shock and a surprise. Found out so much that explained my summers on Bick Lick Mountain, near the Coal Mine Tunnel.
Crazy that Tunkhannock actually featured anti aircraft batteries during wartime. It was vital, and obviously such a massive marvel of engineering wouldn’t be fast or easy to replace if destroyed.
Thanks for the information. Did not know about the anti-aircraft batteries. Did read that German spies went after Grand Central Terminal's power converters. All they needed was a handful of sand in them to ruin them. The spies were captured. Hope you have a great 2024! Mike
Erie and Lackawanna merged and shifted most of the freight to the Erie line. Erie Lackawanna sold the right of way section for rt 80 to be built. It could have kept one track but chose to sell the whole right away for 2 million dollars. They were broke and needed the money.
Nice work!!! Live in SW Florida. A nice girl named Irma came through 17 months ago and changed a lot of things. Now to help the dog burn off some energy.
Her arrival was almost apocalyptic. I hope that you and yours were not harmed. The afterwards of these disasters show so many helping others. It is what humans do, yet, I still feel compelled to remind with my videos: you help yourself each time you help another person. The political craziness around us is insane (and I never talk politics.) Miss my dog. A beagle. Sweet.
You sir (or lady) are so kind. Am pleased that you have learned. But, and there is always a 'but,' what do you think is a practical lesson from this video? My goal is always to provide something practical, and then a reminder: help others, it helps you too. Thank you.
The severing of the Boonton Branch around Garret Mountain by Erie Lackawanna also did not help. Heavy freight trains now had to battle the grade on the Greenwood Lake Line at Great Notch in Little Falls. Then of course later on Conrail was formed which now had several lines going generally the same way.
Unlimited super highway building finished them off. While they paid taxes for the state to build these roads. No investment in rails of course. NJ Transit is a bare bones operation. And Jersey City Terminal remains closed. The only bright part of the story is all the railroad ferry routes are back.
Railroads will always have a role in transportation. The underlying technology is changing: steam, Diesel, Electric...Magnetic Levitation. It will be interesting to watch its evolution.
@@BeMoreBetter It's west of Scranton and without a passenger train it's the middle of no where. It's below a Mountain in a gorge that is poisoned from a frack operation above. Hey K Mc Coy go back and look for the turn table pit that's just east of the tower to turn the branch trains from Montrose. It's really out in the middle of nowhere. The passenger trains really zipped thru here. I think the track west of Scranton had Automatic Train Control so they could do more than 79mph every day every train.
@@Westerner78 Hey Hilary voter, there is NO poisoning from any fracking going on in n.e. Pa. If you had any sense of direction, Alford is north, not west of Scranton. I drink the water from Alford pond and also fish there. Please stay in the inner city and drink your fine lead filled water. That nowhere you are talking about is not far at all from Binghamton or Scranton.
Another reason was the Erie Lackawanna abandoning the Boonton branch which was the most efficient connection between the Lackawanna Cut-Off and New York City. This meant that they needed to use slower track to get to the Cut-Off which defeated the purpose of having such a high-speed rout.
Have never "heard" that suggestion. Will think about it. Am looking at the world as it was around 1800 -- Lord Nelson and battleships. Equally fascinating to me. So much to learn everywhere. The sharing is one thing. Learning from others is another. Thank you.
When I first learned that the Pequest fill was to be removed, it amazed me. That it is now being restored seems wonderful. Infrastructure to support future needs.
Yes, the one guy working on it might be laid off soon. Service to Port Jervis and Spring Valley might be discontinued soon. The blue states been shorted by the Federal Government so red states can have the money. It's a mess so alots of services to us will be cut. The super rich that used to ride the trains goes to work on ZOOM. Business trains are dead for now. The only thing left is necessary and leisure travel and they don't want that. It's not the business plan .
Another factor in the abandonment of the Jersey Cut-Off was the fear by ConRail that the Delaware and Hudson Railroad would be granted operating rights over it to access Northern New Jersey to create competition. Pull up the tracks and you have no way for another railroad to compete with you.
On the ladder of life if you don't improve and educate yourself the view at the top never changes! Think about that! I go through the viaduct in Andover quite often. US 206 goes under it there. I always wondered why did they build such a high level track! It's got to be at least 100 feet high at that point! Now I know!
Love the saying! Regarding the Pequest fill -- a thing of wonder that could not be completed today. A thing of wonder that cannot be seen except by the air, and even then, it just looks like a long, green park. It's height is amazing! Happy New Year!
Janice: Good morning from New Jersey! Hoped you liked what I did. My couple of videos on it started after I discovered one of the abandoned viaducts, the Hainsburg. I I recently did three on Grand Central Terminal. For more about the Lackawanna Cutoff, there is a series by Chuck Walsh. He's the expert. - Mike
Here I am sitting in Springfield Station's Waiting Room bloviating comfortably about things of which I know little while the "Conrail Naysayers" and their ilk are doing less than nothing and many entrepreneurs like Mr. DelaPiscoli (my pal...) are out there trying to make a thousand flowers bloom and occasionally succeeding. A perfect example is the current concept of the "Lackawanna Cut-off" revival's chances which would have been ever so much easier had Conrail not exercised its "scorched earth" policy so many years ago and ripped up so many, many miles of likely marginally useful rails but it would have made their replacement (not to mention - gasp! - double-tracking...) at least a little easier. You see, I’ve seen this so many times closer to home and certainly a few times by remote-control where Conrail had scrapped or “condemned by neglect” so much of their territory that was no longer profitable for them (in the short term) while making it impossible or very costly to find alternate uses of their rights-of-way for others strictly out of fear that someone might have a better idea and then pose a risk to Conrail’s virtual monopoly in many areas while ignoring the overall good to the very citizen-constituents they are “supposed” to serve. Contrail was not conceived in a vacuum. They (and Norfolk Southern and CSX, their successors) were handed relatively valuable franchises to control so much of the northern and midwest US railroad mileage at inception and weren’t given anything but carte-blanche to dissipate and destroy so much of that mileage at their whim with no (effective) oversight by Congress and their designated regulators.
Mike, could you create a video about the California Zephyr? I rode the full line in 2004 both ways. If the video takes 15 or 30 minutes to cover it, I'll watch the whole thing! -Chris
@@BeMoreBetter It's the once a day train that avoids the major citiies on it's route of Peoria and Des Moines . Yet sells out even during covid. Because of private rooms and outside air in the cars. October 1st it's being cut by Trump to only 3 days aweek. So they can cut ridership more and lose more money and knock it off.
@@Westerner78 Am fairly sure President Trump is not involved in the scheduling of trains; That written, I typically try to avoid things political -- only about 10 weeks until the election. This election is an important one given the differences between the parties.
@@BeMoreBetter No Trump of Trump airlines and his airline friends just got a 50 billion bailout this spring which will run out October 1st. Amtrak now is taking action on shutting down most of the rail system to only 3 days aweek. With 32 million customers last year that depend on Amtrak. Mostly on the one train a day routes that Trump is in charge of shutting down. He knows the actions the company is taking. Florida services are already cut back. It happened in July, package express service ends in about 10 days. If Trump gets back in the trains will be gone by April 2021. As the bankrupt states can not maintain social services. The state trains will disappear too. Then lots more track will be ripped up. Like what happened when the National Limited came off and the Broadway Limited. Scrap sales of equipment will follow quickly.
Warren: Thanks for the compliment. Mr. Walsh has a wonderful amount of information. His command of detail astounds (and now that he is retired...) His purpose is different than mine, which is to share something interesting, that teaches, and reminds "help someone. I helps you too." My way to make the world better.
@@BeMoreBetter Too bad Chuck to my knowledge never rode it like me . I rode it about 40 times at least and sometimes at over 100mph when the train was late. Management expected this performance from engineers. Who were at the top of the seniority roster. The best of the railroad. Or their bosses would get on kick them out of the seat and really go! The cut off was built for long distance services. It was a big mistake for the Lackawanna not to build into New York and put their trains into Hudson Terminal (World Trade Center) and on to Brooklyn. Connecting with the Long Island Railroad at their Brooklyn Terminal. When the mail went to GM trucks it was the end. They bankrupted the whole coast to coast national rail system in 1967 ending cross country mail by passenger rail it's still on the trucks.
the Lackawanna could have been a super rail road but the following problems got in the way bad grades on both sides of Scranton Pa needed helper services to get out of town. Dansville Ny grade was also very tought
@@BeMoreBetter The Pocono main has ONE freight a day and the agreement when the state of New Jersey bought the CUT OFF property from the Atlantic City mob guy. (Not Trump) FORBIDS FREIGHT TRAINS!
Will the Buffalo - NYC link become reinvigorated? Certainly, it was a superhighway back when built. The infrastructure remains amazing, e.g. the Tunkhannock Viaduct.
@@BeMoreBetter The business is there. Most riders in the Empire corridor are not going all the way to NY. Like most drivers on I-90 are not going to NY. There is alot of short distance travel in between. The state subsidizes or has programs make hourly bus service possible. That stops at the train stations that are bus- rail centers. Train fares due to under funding are higher than bus. Limited rail service timed for only the New York City market . Limits use. The bus company's get lots of benefits from public stations, public roads and grants to run and tax free fuel.
The expanded D&H bought the "other side" of the cutoff, from Scranton to Binghamton, and they were eying the Pocono Mountain Route covetously. That would have been REAL competition, and Conrail couldn't have THAT. CR removed the NY Cutoof rails despite a court order not to do so.
Thank you for sharing. So much to learn. Have been reading about the hard coal regions, and found the "Jedoo Tunnel." Amazing! Americans built so much to build this nation. God bless it.
Appalachia continues to be depressed from losing all that work. Hard working men and women. My grandfather had a "bootleg" coal mine -- probably just a hole he dug down until he found the vein. How dangerous was that?
@@BeMoreBetter Machines have replaced miners. Those dangerous jobs that are left will be done with super robots. Not miners, that buy oil and gas for heat in their homes and expect everyone else to buy expensive coal with ash.
Garth: Hard to understand how any of these huge constructs can be erased -- but they are, all the time. The Lackawanna Cutoff was to be removed for fill in another project. That is was not is a relief. In the decades -- even centuries ahead -- there will be other changes. I hope we all are here to discuss them.
I remember this comment, because it is such a nice one (others should mimic you in my opinion -- lots of others). I'll swear I replied, but his morning, RUclips has it in my newly-discovered "haven't responded to comment" list, so let me thank you again!!!
Patrick: Thank you for the compliment. Truth be told, so much of the story was new to me; their discovery during the research amazed -- and people are still giving me new facts. I film today, #119. The subject is a little different from #91's railroads. BE SAFE DURING THIS PANDEMIC!!!
Given the enormous growth of the region abandoning (vs simple shutdown) of such infrastructure was stupid and foreseeably so! Every commuter on a train is one less car choking the roads. Rail built the northeast long before cars were common. Done right it's convenient (I loved sleeping en-route), energy-efficient and a vital enhancer to regional infrastructure.
That's one of the things that fascinated me with the story. At one point, the entire bypass' was to be removed, and transported to be used as fill. The infrastructure that was built at such a high cost cannot be replicated and should be reused when possible.
Just call it Lackawanna airlines ....get all the money you need and more. Trump just gave the airline industry 50 billion dollars this spring for ZOMBIE companies. They depend on business travel and it's gone to ZOOM! The necessary named long distance trains that serve the rest of the country with the highest remaining revenue and passengers they are cutting to only 3 days aweek on October 1st. So it's not about money!
@@BeMoreBetter Not highways and airports they get unlimited hundreds of billions of dollars to work with. All their projects are just a matter of when not if. Airports now have funding if there wasn't an other plane out of them for years and years. Airlines just got 50 billion dollars in bailouts. Amtrak got ONE! Just enough to keep going until most of it is shut down. "It's going to be great! "
@@Westerner78 Probably as RR's are viewed as Yesterday's Technology. The need to interconnect using high-speed ground transport is becoming ever more obvious.
Brian: I found the Hainesburg Viaduct by accident, the research became video #90. Video #91 answers why the cut-off was abandoned to the best of my knowledge at the time, so I don't understand your comment -- sorry about that. Since then, others have added other factors, and I thank them.
Like from a wheel's hub, the Railroads leaving NYC are sort of like spokes. East leads to Long Island, North east toward New England, North to NY State, South to Baltimore, West has toward Philadelphia and Buffalo (SW & NW). Just too many routes for the traffic that was left. A Conrail person might answer more clearly.
@@BeMoreBetter Too many super highways, now over loaded with traffic. The highway lobby says the answer is always more highways. The spread between road taxes 74 billion on the Federal level and the last highway bill of 200 billion is made up with bonds. The railroads were even taxed to pay the interest on the TAX FREE highway bonds. Bonds to build the cut off were taxed! The last train ran in Jan 4th 1970. I went west on it to Chicago and on to Milwaukee on Jan 2nd. Railroad bonds went into default and the companies bankrupt. Con Job was a Wall Street answer to get rid of competition and raise rates. Without investing in trains. Just airports, roads and ports. NO TRAINS.
You are more knowledgable than about I about the line. I envy that you traveled it. But (and the's always a 'but,') your point abour overcrowded car routes makes alternate Rail Lines even more possible.
@@BeMoreBetter I know but powerful lobbies control the government. More traffic and traffic jams make them money! Plus they validate the claim for more roads. At any price!
Well, yes this is some of the story. Erie & DLW merged 10/17/60. Both were in shaky financial shape, hence the merger. They ran both routes the Erie via Port Jervis and the DLW. They favored the Erie at first, then shifted in the 70's to the DLW. What really killed the Cut-Off was New Jersey. Conrail had the LV,NYC,PRR and EL all going to Buffalo. Well,you don't 4 routes from NYC to Buffalo. So they picked the NYC,from North Jersey to Albany and then west. No grades,it had on-line business and Selkirk is the major yard for New England and NY/NJ. The others are pretty much gone,servered or shortlines. Now New Jersey. New Jersey heavily taxes railroad property it's one of the reasons CNJ,was bankrupt by 1967. In the USRA plan,rationalizing rail routes was key. Density,on line business,population etc was all evaluated. Unfortunately the Cut-Off while a great piece of engineering didn't measure up. Conrail did use it until 1978. By then the rehab of the NYC,allowed them to discontinue using the Cut-Off. So it was really modern day reality, that ended it. Regarding the re-opening. I don't know if it's worth it for just 3 trains each way a day. I would rather see it extended to Binghamton or Buffalo. I know everyone is excited about this, but these questions need to be answered. The ridership figures look a little high at 480,000 a year on 6 trains a day. You can't build a railroad and walk away. It needs to be maintained,on a regular basis,track,signals,bridges etc. It has no signals or PTC, or even dispatching,that will be necessary costs with everything else.
What a clear, reasoned, and logical presentation of "the rest of the story". For me, I "found" two viaducts that had been abandoned -- over the Delaware and the Hainsburg. That led to the Cutoff and thence to more history. Thank you so much! Mike
@BeMoreBetter I'm glad you found my response so enlightening. Northeast railroad is a complex subject. I've been railfanning since the 70's. I've seen Pre-Conrail,Conrail and post Conrail. There is a really good back called the 'Men Who Loved Trains'by Rush Loving it goes into this way more than I can. I try to take a measured approach to why the railroads do what they do. I look at it in the time it was occurring. Economics change over the years.
Ray: I'll put that book down onto my "When I get a chance." Am right now reading "Antisemitism - A Very Short Introduction " by Steven Beller. Eye-opening, but not fun. Research for another in my response to the 10/7 attacks that murdered so many in Israel. Thanks, Mike@@RaymondTroth-cf3if
Dave: You are not the first to point this out. The answer is that history has so much in it that it is easy to miss things. Sometimes I am able to sandwich material I find after filming into the video. Hope you learned something else non-the-less. We will see if the cutoff ever becomes operational again. I hope it does. Mike
@@BeMoreBetter Took her name from a old boxcars that passed her home when New Jersey had freight trains on routes of NJ Transit today,. NJ Transit the billion dollar bus company that runs a few rail lines.
Greyhound and Martz I can assure you are dead set against any restoring of the Lackawanna Route. They benefit from any government programs and road improvements and they don't want competition nor sharing of any government funding. Use your head! Plus the commuter airlines to Scranton they have government grants, traffic control etc. The trains disappeared when the mail was put on GM trucks.
When after 30 years Portland, Maine got passenger trains back. The DOWNEASTER service. Bus ridership went UP. Portland, Me. Is the size of Scranton and the same distance to Boston as Scranton is to NY. It had 800,000 riders before the virus.
@@Westerner78 Feel free to call me Mike. Am working on BMB #140 & 141. They are about the story of how RRs came from. I grew up on the side of Big Lick mountain in Pa. Huge coal mine. RRs born from Coal Mines.
@@BeMoreBetter Yup that's true. I believe the early ones were far back as the 1500's. They found the mules could pull more if the mine carts were up out of the mine mud on wooden rails. They also used people to shove and pull the carts of coal. Then some one hopped on and found they were fun to ride too!
One eyed hacker: First, I hope you have both eyes. My right eye has little vision. Second, your answer might be correct, but, and there's always a 'but,' mine has a bunch of more interesting detail. Third, tell me what you think of my video on how RRs were invented. Video #117. ruclips.net/video/ih6zZCcL9zA/видео.html Thanks, Mike
Thanks for the comment. Many have told me that the decision was not "engineering" but rather to favor one company over the other. That might be true, but the factors I list are true also.
The inventiveness seen in the steam engines was wonderful; but technology finds better ways always. Phoebe Snow rode the road of anthracite because her clothes would stay white. Thanks for watching.
@@BeMoreBetter Until General Motors bought into the railroads for good rates and to make sure they bought their diesels. Then GM lobbied the government to put the last of the mail on their trucks. And take it off the trains. That bankrupted the private rail system. In 1967. A cut back downsized underfunded Amtrak was the result. 4 years later.
Such a big handsome man, and so passionate about the topic at hand. I just love watching your warm smile and the enthusiastic way in which you express yourself. Killer smile, too! I just watched this and know of what you are speaking: ruclips.net/video/qWlcaZ8MtVs/видео.html
What a comment! You could have added that I have the body of a Greek God -- Bacchus (aka, Dionysus) -- which is well concealed under my layers of fat. I do enjoy many of my videos -- not those touching difficult topics, though. Those are an obligation, not a pleasure. Still, I doubly thank you as the video link you shared reminded of forgotten things -- with other videos to be found from it. Thank you and continue enjoying exploring. Mike
@@SWExplore (Steve). There is (was) a big stairway next to the beautiful waiting room in Hoboken's Train station. I "accidentally" went up it, and through one of the many doors preventing further access (possibly following an employee). Beyond, there is a huge expanse -- almost as if it were another waiting room. The far wall had still the ferry destinations and schedules -- of boats which had not sailed in decades. It was the top-level for the ferry's. Many preferred the top level vs. the bottom. History is such a surprise when unexpectedly encountered. Stay well. Mike
@@BeMoreBetter Mike (you big handsome Adonis!), I wished you had recorded your accidentally wandering up to the top level to other waiting room. To have seen the decades-old destination schedules would have been such a wonderful sight. In the video link that I had shared earlier, I could see that the ferry labeled 'Scranton' did have two levels; now it makes sense that one would have been able to alight from either the upper or lower level of the ferry.
@@SWExplore Steve: Worked in NYC, Jersey City, etc. back a while. Stevens Institute of Technology in Hoboken was one of my schools. Retired now, it would have been wonderful to film so much from back then. My research for my books, talks, articles and videos amazes... and saddens. People were sometimes so smart... and stupid. How to maximize my impact is another question. Need a cute kitten. Mike
That presentation was very good ! I did not know why the Lackawanna Cutoff was discontinued. I am looking foreward to seeing it being reopened again. Thank You !
Gordon: Since making it, the various commenters continue to drop gems about the reason for closing. People are so knowledgeable -- so much more than I am. Still, I do my best to share what little I learn even as I continue to find new things. Some of these are not pleasant. I've just made 3 1/2 videos about antisemitism. Not a happy topic. Hard to believe it has been coming out of the woodwork lately. Regards, Mike
"Until it was dwarfed- DWARFED!!!"
Love the passion. It makes me excited to keep watching.
Dino: Thanks for the compliment, but, and there's always a "but," no credit is due. The world is filled with things that amaze - from the small to the huge. No matter where you look it's that way. Today I just posted about wanting to go swimming, and the little story shared with me when I couldn't. Enjoy.
I thought I knew everything about the Cutoff, having watched Chuck Walsh's series. But I still learned from this.
Chuck's series is incredible, but what I do is for a different purpose: practical lessons to remind: you help yourself when you help others. That written, thank you for the compliment, but it is easy to add something new to our understanding of history. Am just about to post my #130. Each picture I added led me into an hour of research because there is just so much that is interesting. Stay safe!
The fills are still incredible to contemplate. On the Cutoff--apparently no speed restrictions around curves, no slow-downs on hills, double track, Wow! What a vision. I watch Chuck Walsh's uploads on the Cut-off too. I think he's up to #20.
The fills are impossible for me to imagine anyone coming up with the idea -- and then making it a reality. Almost more difficult to imagine is that they walked away from it; giving it away to be used for fill elsewhere. Glad it was saved; hope it will be put to good use. The sort of thing that make American Great! Chuck's videos are part of what I used to make my videos. Thanks for watching. My latest is about the French attempt to build a canal across Panama. Incredible in a different way.
You all prolly dont give a damn but does anyone know a trick to get back into an Instagram account..?
I stupidly lost my account password. I appreciate any tips you can offer me
@Benson Ryker Instablaster ;)
@Briggs Malcolm i really appreciate your reply. I found the site on google and im trying it out atm.
I see it takes quite some time so I will get back to you later with my results.
@Briggs Malcolm It worked and I now got access to my account again. I'm so happy!
Thanks so much you really help me out!
Erie Lackawanna was folded into Conrail at the last minute. Conrail already had a system plan by that time, and it didn't include the EL system.
That's a perspective I'd never considered. There are so many people who know so much. Thank you.
@Eugene StonerThat part of the history is new to me. Thank you!
@@BeMoreBetter The EL continued on until the 1991 selling assets. Con Job bought the east end of the railroad for 600 million dollars. The Erie was worth more dead than running so Wall Street killed it and made a fortune doing it. I had one share to follow what happened. I still have my last EL check for 15 cents from 1992 Con Job only bought the assets. They wanted nothing to do with the money EL owed and the pollution they left behind.
One reason Conrail didn't want to use the Cutoff is that the Morris & Essex Branch is electrified, and the catenary is too low for double stacks.
Apx 60 percent of el.was kept by conrail
I was quite young when the Eerie Locowana was dismantled in Indiana. It came though Huntington. As well as the Wabash RR. I do miss them both. 😕
I've always been fascinated by the Iron Horse. You'd think the remaining infrastructure could have been reused. Am working on a trilogy about Grand Central Terminal. I keep finding more information that is interesting.
I actually learned a lot from this video
Thanks for the compliment. Making each is a learning experience for me. Then there are comments from guys like Pat Kruger -- and the learning continues. The later videos are far better than the earlier ones -- another way I'm learning. But don't forget, these are intended to remind: Get better, by making others so. Tell me what you think of the next ones.
You make good points, but ignore one other important reason: After the Erie/Lackawanna merger in 1960, the dominant management team was mostly from the Erie. Whenever duplicate trackage had to be trimmed down, it was always the Lackawanna trackage that got the ax, even though the Lackawanna physical plant was generally in better shape than Erie. Years later, in the Conrail era, an ex-Erie official admitting that abandoning the Cutoff was a huge mistake.
Albert: Had never heard that detail. Thank you for the addition. Mike
Great information on the New Jersey cutoff on the Lackawanna railroad. I have on my coffee table the book Trackside around Scranton, PA 1952 to 1976. It has short stories on the railroads before Conrail. The Lehigh Valley where 7 members of my family worked on it out of Coxton Yard. My paternal grandfathers longtime friend worked on the Lackawanna which became the Erie Lackawanna on my 7th. Birthday October 17,1960. I'm an N scale model railroaded & my model railroad is the Pacific West Coast.
Chris: You and I were both born in 1953, but, and there's always a "but," it is my plan to be 29 on my next birthday. Thanks for the compliment. RRs are amazing. They made America. I just posted my second video on NYC's GCT. It has an invisible 17.5 foot tall statue outside it. Invisible. Hope you enjoy it.
I grew up above the Williamstown Valley -- about 100 miles to your south.
Thank you for this information. I’m a fan of this railroad. Didn’t know that the n mine accident and the hurricane really did them in. Thanks. What a beautiful railroad.
My grandfather was a hard coal miner; I knew nothing of what happened. Was amazed to have learned of the disaster.
Talked to some former Conrail employees that went back to the E- L days. They tell me that the traffic in the early 70's was being moved to the Greenwood Lake - Boonton line while the Erie side was being downgraded from double to single track. With the grades in Great Notch and Little Falls in addition to the passenger trains the people along the line were going batshit crazy and a wreck in Montclair was the deciding factor in moving traffic towards the Erie side. The Ford plant in Mahwah was still going at the time and those auto parts in and finished cars out are what saved the tier back then
The complexity of the story continues to amaze me. That was only 50 years ago, and so getting insight from those involved at the time is still possible. Thank you for sharing. Mike
Mike a great job! These cutoffs should be reopened. They should have been put in mothballs rather than being dismantled! No vision!
Garth: Thanks for the compliment. Am not a Railroad expert, but it seems the infrastructure that was built should be preserved for future uses. The cutoff would cost a billion dollars to rebuild (in today[s money). The idea that they were going to dismantle it astounds. Mike
At 2:27 is CR 6669 formerly EL 3638.
I saw 3638 once as EL.
I would catch 6669 many times. All still in red/white/blue.
CR 6670 is the only surviving SDP45 in the USA.
It is always a pleasure to "meet" people who are so much more knowledgeable about so many subjects than I... and there are so many things to know! Enjoy your day, and thank you. Mike
I ran a greaser cart on the Erie Lackawanna RR back in 1970-72 out of Deposit NY
A railfan, like me, is much less knowledgeable about Operations than employees. I am always amazed at the details the get shared. Thanks.
That's awesome!
Your videos are great. My son and I learn lots and enjoy the presentation
Thank you for such a nice note. it is always a pleasure to read that others are leaning and enjoying what I do -- hopefully, that I'm doing better as time goes by. Stay safe!
The Lackawanna Cutoff project needs to get it completed anytime soon!
All good things come to those who wait.
It's never going to happen. They missed multiple opportunities 25 years ago to get this boondoggle of a project done. The cost is going to be astronomical to rebuild all the track signal and PTC for minimal ridership.
Terrific summary of the demise of the Cutoff and the mighty EL. When any of you out there have the time and resources,, visit Scranton, PA and Steamtown National Historic Park and enjoy the roundhouse and ongoing yard work by restored Alcos and other classic locomotives. Thanks.
Thanks for the compliment. Steamtown is wonderful. One amazing thing it has is a loco cut in half -- lengthwise -- to show how it works. Thanks for reminding me. The pictures of the busy area in the 1950s compared to the quiet one decades later are sad.
Mike just revisited this site where you discuss the cutoff. Funny in today’s world I see a renaissance in rail travel. It is exciting! America and Canada have beautiful scenery seen from the railroad. The adventure of traveling by train to faraway places may again be happening. Imagine traveling to Chicago on a newly rebuilt Twentieth Century limited train outfitted with the exact same livery as they did in the thirties and forties with the streamlined J on the front end. The red carpet in Grand Central station as well. Or the long slant nosed E6 GM diesel pulling the orange blossom special to Florida.
Garth???
At this time of the Birth of Christ, you touch upon something important... to look and marvel at the world around us... including the people in our lives... and not just family, but, and there's always a "but," friends and neighbors. In fact, my sixth book (WIP, like books 3, 4, and 5) is some Rules of Life -- like the one that says, "Take care of your team." Your team are your people. If you go into a store, you are a shopper of that store. All other shoppers are your people. Now, repeat this in every instance of your life. You have lots of people to enjoy.
Am now doing some videos to try and deal with antisemitism. On my list for later, are some Victorian-Era Railroad Bridges. So much to see and marvel at.
Have a Blessed Christmas.
Mike
Truly enjoyed your enjoyment!!
Hope you enjoyed the content, too. For me, each video is a learning experience and is thus a pleasure. Have a great New Year.
My dad always told me stories of the Knox mine disaster his grandfather was a politician and went to go see it with him and watched the train cars get sucked into the hole and remembered people telling him the river will flow into it forever
Glad the video reminded you of family. The research into the video was a shock and a surprise. Found out so much that explained my summers on Bick Lick Mountain, near the Coal Mine Tunnel.
Crazy that Tunkhannock actually featured anti aircraft batteries during wartime. It was vital, and obviously such a massive marvel of engineering wouldn’t be fast or easy to replace if destroyed.
Thanks for the information. Did not know about the anti-aircraft batteries. Did read that German spies went after Grand Central Terminal's power converters. All they needed was a handful of sand in them to ruin them. The spies were captured. Hope you have a great 2024! Mike
Erie and Lackawanna merged and shifted most of the freight to the Erie line. Erie Lackawanna sold the right of way section for rt 80 to be built. It could have kept one track but chose to sell the whole right away for 2 million dollars. They were broke and needed the money.
Love that the learning goes on and on. Thanks for the information. - Mike
Nice work!!!
Live in SW Florida. A nice girl named Irma came through 17 months ago and changed a lot of things. Now to help the dog burn off some energy.
Her arrival was almost apocalyptic. I hope that you and yours were not harmed. The afterwards of these disasters show so many helping others. It is what humans do, yet, I still feel compelled to remind with my videos: you help yourself each time you help another person. The political craziness around us is insane (and I never talk politics.) Miss my dog. A beagle. Sweet.
Loved the video. Very informative. You sir have earned a like and gained a subscriber!
You sir (or lady) are so kind. Am pleased that you have learned. But, and there is always a 'but,' what do you think is a practical lesson from this video? My goal is always to provide something practical, and then a reminder: help others, it helps you too. Thank you.
I like this guy, he's neat.
What a nice compliment. Thank you!
The severing of the Boonton Branch around Garret Mountain by Erie Lackawanna also did not help. Heavy freight trains now had to battle the grade on the Greenwood Lake Line at Great Notch in Little Falls. Then of course later on Conrail was formed which now had several lines going generally the same way.
The railroad system is so complex! Thanks for adding to the decision making mix. The learning is fun. I appreciate you sharing. Happy New Year!
Unlimited super highway building finished them off. While they paid taxes for the state to build these roads. No investment in rails of course. NJ Transit is a bare bones operation. And Jersey City Terminal remains closed. The only bright part of the story is all the railroad ferry routes are back.
Save the Alford Station and Towers! Great Video!
Thank you, but am confused. What are the Alford Station and Towers? I can only find an 1848 station that is no longer used in England.
Railroads will always have a role in transportation. The underlying technology is changing: steam, Diesel, Electric...Magnetic Levitation. It will be interesting to watch its evolution.
@@BeMoreBetter It's west of Scranton and without a passenger train it's the middle of no where. It's below a Mountain in a gorge that is poisoned from a frack operation above. Hey K Mc Coy go back and look for the turn table pit that's just east of the tower to turn the branch trains from Montrose. It's really out in the middle of nowhere. The passenger trains really zipped thru here. I think the track west of Scranton had Automatic Train Control so they could do more than 79mph every day every train.
@tom kat What bus line or oil company do you work for?
@@Westerner78 Hey Hilary voter, there is NO poisoning from any fracking going on in n.e. Pa. If you had any sense of direction, Alford is north, not west of Scranton. I drink the water from Alford pond and also fish there. Please stay in the inner city and drink your fine lead filled water. That nowhere you are talking about is not far at all from Binghamton or Scranton.
Another reason was the Erie Lackawanna abandoning the Boonton branch which was the most efficient connection between the Lackawanna Cut-Off and New York City. This meant that they needed to use slower track to get to the Cut-Off which defeated the purpose of having such a high-speed rout.
Have never "heard" that suggestion. Will think about it. Am looking at the world as it was around 1800 -- Lord Nelson and battleships. Equally fascinating to me. So much to learn everywhere. The sharing is one thing. Learning from others is another. Thank you.
Yes visit Pennsylvania it's the most beautiful place it's so ancient!
Yes, it is a beautiful State... so are all the others. The challenge is to visit them all... and even harder, to prioritize which first.
the Lackawanna Cutoff is being rebuilt by NJ transit ! :)
When I first learned that the Pequest fill was to be removed, it amazed me. That it is now being restored seems wonderful. Infrastructure to support future needs.
@@BeMoreBetter Yes one guy is working on the whole thing it will be done in 3033 Martz Trailways says
Hopefully before then; but all progress is appreciated.
Yes, the one guy working on it might be laid off soon. Service to Port Jervis and Spring Valley might be discontinued soon. The blue states been shorted by the Federal Government so red states can have the money. It's a mess so alots of services to us will be cut. The super rich that used to ride the trains goes to work on ZOOM. Business trains are dead for now. The only thing left is necessary and leisure travel and they don't want that. It's not the business plan .
@@Westerner78 nice lie and bull 🐂💩. Every one knows blue states can't manage money 💰
Another factor in the abandonment of the Jersey Cut-Off was the fear by ConRail that the Delaware and Hudson Railroad would be granted operating rights over it to access Northern New Jersey to create competition. Pull up the tracks and you have no way for another railroad to compete with you.
So many comments; so much information that played a role! Thank you.
On the ladder of life if you don't improve and educate yourself the view at the top never changes! Think about that!
I go through the viaduct in Andover quite often. US 206 goes under it there. I always wondered why did they build such a high level track! It's got to be at least 100 feet high at that point! Now I know!
Love the saying! Regarding the Pequest fill -- a thing of wonder that could not be completed today. A thing of wonder that cannot be seen except by the air, and even then, it just looks like a long, green park. It's height is amazing! Happy New Year!
Hello from Kansas 🇺🇸
Janice: Good morning from New Jersey! Hoped you liked what I did. My couple of videos on it started after I discovered one of the abandoned viaducts, the Hainsburg. I I recently did three on Grand Central Terminal. For more about the Lackawanna Cutoff, there is a series by Chuck Walsh. He's the expert. - Mike
I’ve always wanted to visit the abandoned nj transit trains there
Didn't know there were abandoned trains there; the tracks were pulled up. Always learning here.
Here I am sitting in Springfield Station's Waiting Room bloviating comfortably about things of which I know little while the "Conrail Naysayers" and their ilk are doing less than nothing and many entrepreneurs like Mr. DelaPiscoli (my pal...) are out there trying to make a thousand flowers bloom and occasionally succeeding.
A perfect example is the current concept of the "Lackawanna Cut-off" revival's chances which would have been ever so much easier had Conrail not exercised its "scorched earth" policy so many years ago and ripped up so many, many miles of likely marginally useful rails but it would have made their replacement (not to mention - gasp! - double-tracking...) at least a little easier.
You see, I’ve seen this so many times closer to home and certainly a few times by remote-control where Conrail had scrapped or “condemned by neglect” so much of their territory that was no longer profitable for them (in the short term) while making it impossible or very costly to find alternate uses of their rights-of-way for others strictly out of fear that someone might have a better idea and then pose a risk to Conrail’s virtual monopoly in many areas while ignoring the overall good to the very citizen-constituents they are “supposed” to serve. Contrail was not conceived in a vacuum. They (and Norfolk Southern and CSX, their successors) were handed relatively valuable franchises to control so much of the northern and midwest US railroad mileage at inception and weren’t given anything but carte-blanche to dissipate and destroy so much of that mileage at their whim with no (effective) oversight by Congress and their designated regulators.
A very different "Big Picture" perspective. Thank You. Mike
The CNJ also went through this same area up towards Scranton
Didn't know that. Thanks
@BeMoreBetter Your welcome, The CNJ freight depot is still there and the JC worked with the Reading to get traffic into the area
Mike, could you create a video about the California Zephyr? I rode the full line in 2004 both ways. If the video takes 15 or 30 minutes to cover it, I'll watch the whole thing!
-Chris
Chris: Thanks for the suggestion. Have to confess, I don't know much about the Zephyr, but have put it on my list of futures.
@@BeMoreBetter It's the once a day train that avoids the major citiies on it's route of Peoria and Des Moines . Yet sells out even during covid. Because of private rooms and outside air in the cars. October 1st it's being cut by Trump to only 3 days aweek. So they can cut ridership more and lose more money and knock it off.
@@Westerner78 Am fairly sure President Trump is not involved in the scheduling of trains; That written, I typically try to avoid things political -- only about 10 weeks until the election. This election is an important one given the differences between the parties.
@@BeMoreBetter No Trump of Trump airlines and his airline friends just got a 50 billion bailout this spring which will run out October 1st. Amtrak now is taking action on shutting down most of the rail system to only 3 days aweek. With 32 million customers last year that depend on Amtrak. Mostly on the one train a day routes that Trump is in charge of shutting down. He knows the actions the company is taking. Florida services are already cut back. It happened in July, package express service ends in about 10 days. If Trump gets back in the trains will be gone by April 2021. As the bankrupt states can not maintain social services. The state trains will disappear too. Then lots more track will be ripped up. Like what happened when the National Limited came off and the Broadway Limited. Scrap sales of equipment will follow quickly.
Good job! Mention Chuck Walsh's work sometime soon. Thanks.
Warren: Thanks for the compliment. Mr. Walsh has a wonderful amount of information. His command of detail astounds (and now that he is retired...) His purpose is different than mine, which is to share something interesting, that teaches, and reminds "help someone. I helps you too." My way to make the world better.
@@BeMoreBetter Too bad Chuck to my knowledge never rode it like me . I rode it about 40 times at least and sometimes at over 100mph when the train was late. Management expected this performance from engineers. Who were at the top of the seniority roster. The best of the railroad. Or their bosses would get on kick them out of the seat and really go! The cut off was built for long distance services. It was a big mistake for the Lackawanna not to build into New York and put their trains into Hudson Terminal (World Trade Center) and on to Brooklyn. Connecting with the Long Island Railroad at their Brooklyn Terminal. When the mail went to GM trucks it was the end. They bankrupted the whole coast to coast national rail system in 1967 ending cross country mail by passenger rail it's still on the trucks.
The railroads are an important part of "America First".
An excellent observation! Thank you. Mike
True reason, nobody wanted to pay for a boiler tech on the lift bridge at Rutherford on the Passaic river...
Sad
Have never heard that. Thank you.
the Lackawanna could have been a super rail road but the following problems got in the way bad grades on both sides of Scranton Pa needed helper services to get out of town. Dansville Ny grade was also very tought
Just recently learned of all its NY-Chicago competition, too
would freight train's use the rail line of it gets rebuilt ?
You would think that will be in the plans. It seems to make sense.
@@BeMoreBetter The Pocono main has ONE freight a day and the agreement when the state of New Jersey bought the CUT OFF property from the Atlantic City mob guy. (Not Trump) FORBIDS FREIGHT TRAINS!
Will the Buffalo - NYC link become reinvigorated? Certainly, it was a superhighway back when built. The infrastructure remains amazing, e.g. the Tunkhannock Viaduct.
@@BeMoreBetter The business is there. Most riders in the Empire corridor are not going all the way to NY. Like most drivers on I-90 are not going to NY. There is alot of short distance travel in between. The state subsidizes or has programs make hourly bus service possible. That stops at the train stations that are bus- rail centers. Train fares due to under funding are higher than bus. Limited rail service timed for only the New York City market . Limits use. The bus company's get lots of benefits from public stations, public roads and grants to run and tax free fuel.
Interesting bus vs. rail explanation. Thank you
Britain's Great Central met the same date.. Fastest , most modern , best grades and curvature no grade crossings etc etc.
Am not familiar with it. Is it the Grand Central Railway Company founded in 2000??? Mike
The expanded D&H bought the "other side" of the cutoff, from Scranton to Binghamton, and they were eying the Pocono Mountain Route covetously. That would have been REAL competition, and Conrail couldn't have THAT. CR removed the NY Cutoof rails despite a court order not to do so.
Thank you for sharing. So much to learn. Have been reading about the hard coal regions, and found the "Jedoo Tunnel." Amazing! Americans built so much to build this nation. God bless it.
Wow
Yes.
5:10. 10,000 jobs, man that had to hurt the coal mining industry.
Appalachia continues to be depressed from losing all that work. Hard working men and women. My grandfather had a "bootleg" coal mine -- probably just a hole he dug down until he found the vein. How dangerous was that?
@@BeMoreBetter Machines have replaced miners. Those dangerous jobs that are left will be done with super robots. Not miners, that buy oil and gas for heat in their homes and expect everyone else to buy expensive coal with ash.
Sure hope Chuck gets to see it restored before he dies!
Garth: Hard to understand how any of these huge constructs can be erased -- but they are, all the time. The Lackawanna Cutoff was to be removed for fill in another project. That is was not is a relief. In the decades -- even centuries ahead -- there will be other changes. I hope we all are here to discuss them.
This is honestly the most engaging train history video I have seen yet. Great delivery style.
Please do more of them.
I remember this comment, because it is such a nice one (others should mimic you in my opinion -- lots of others). I'll swear I replied, but his morning, RUclips has it in my newly-discovered "haven't responded to comment" list, so let me thank you again!!!
This was interesting
Patrick: Thank you for the compliment. Truth be told, so much of the story was new to me; their discovery during the research amazed -- and people are still giving me new facts. I film today, #119. The subject is a little different from #91's railroads. BE SAFE DURING THIS PANDEMIC!!!
Given the enormous growth of the region abandoning (vs simple shutdown) of such infrastructure was stupid and foreseeably so! Every commuter on a train is one less car choking the roads. Rail built the northeast long before cars were common. Done right it's convenient (I loved sleeping en-route), energy-efficient and a vital enhancer to regional infrastructure.
What a wonderful perspective of the situation! Darn. When I return to this subject, I will use this. Brilliant!!! Thank you. Mike.
Can’t imagine how costly it would be to construct the Cutoff in today’s currency
That's one of the things that fascinated me with the story. At one point, the entire bypass' was to be removed, and transported to be used as fill. The infrastructure that was built at such a high cost cannot be replicated and should be reused when possible.
Just call it Lackawanna airlines ....get all the money you need and more. Trump just gave the airline industry 50 billion dollars this spring for ZOMBIE companies. They depend on business travel and it's gone to ZOOM! The necessary named long distance trains that serve the rest of the country with the highest remaining revenue and passengers they are cutting to only 3 days aweek on October 1st. So it's not about money!
@@Westerner78 It is sad how the infrastructure of the Nation has deteriorated in the past 50 years, and that's a fact!
@@BeMoreBetter Not highways and airports they get unlimited hundreds of billions of dollars to work with. All their projects are just a matter of when not if. Airports now have funding if there wasn't an other plane out of them for years and years. Airlines just got 50 billion dollars in bailouts. Amtrak got ONE! Just enough to keep going until most of it is shut down. "It's going to be great! "
@@Westerner78 Probably as RR's are viewed as Yesterday's Technology. The need to interconnect using high-speed ground transport is becoming ever more obvious.
I thought you were going to answer why the Cut-off was abandoned. Simply click-bait!
Brian: I found the Hainesburg Viaduct by accident, the research became video #90. Video #91 answers why the cut-off was abandoned to the best of my knowledge at the time, so I don't understand your comment -- sorry about that. Since then, others have added other factors, and I thank them.
He starts listing reasons it was abandoned at 2:30
If it was such a fast line, with lighter degree curves, why wasn't it kept if even by another road instead of inferior routes?
Like from a wheel's hub, the Railroads leaving NYC are sort of like spokes. East leads to Long Island, North east toward New England, North to NY State, South to Baltimore, West has toward Philadelphia and Buffalo (SW & NW). Just too many routes for the traffic that was left. A Conrail person might answer more clearly.
@@BeMoreBetter Too many super highways, now over loaded with traffic. The highway lobby says the answer is always more highways. The spread between road taxes 74 billion on the Federal level and the last highway bill of 200 billion is made up with bonds. The railroads were even taxed to pay the interest on the TAX FREE highway bonds. Bonds to build the cut off were taxed! The last train ran in Jan 4th 1970. I went west on it to Chicago and on to Milwaukee on Jan 2nd. Railroad bonds went into default and the companies bankrupt. Con Job was a Wall Street answer to get rid of competition and raise rates. Without investing in trains. Just airports, roads and ports. NO TRAINS.
You are more knowledgable than about I about the line. I envy that you traveled it. But (and the's always a 'but,') your point abour overcrowded car routes makes alternate Rail Lines even more possible.
@@BeMoreBetter I know but powerful lobbies control the government. More traffic and traffic jams make them money! Plus they validate the claim for more roads. At any price!
Advanges do stand out; e.g., where infrastructure exists.
Well, yes this is some of the story. Erie & DLW merged 10/17/60. Both were in shaky financial shape, hence the merger. They ran both routes the Erie via Port Jervis and the DLW. They favored the Erie at first, then shifted in the 70's to the DLW. What really killed the Cut-Off was New Jersey. Conrail had the LV,NYC,PRR and EL all going to Buffalo. Well,you don't 4 routes from NYC to Buffalo. So they picked the NYC,from North Jersey to Albany and then west. No grades,it had on-line business and Selkirk is the major yard for New England and NY/NJ. The others are pretty much gone,servered or shortlines. Now New Jersey. New Jersey heavily taxes railroad property it's one of the reasons CNJ,was bankrupt by 1967. In the USRA plan,rationalizing rail routes was key. Density,on line business,population etc was all evaluated. Unfortunately the Cut-Off while a great piece of engineering didn't measure up. Conrail did use it until 1978. By then the rehab of the NYC,allowed them to discontinue using the Cut-Off. So it was really modern day reality, that ended it. Regarding the re-opening. I don't know if it's worth it for just 3 trains each way a day. I would rather see it extended to Binghamton or Buffalo. I know everyone is excited about this, but these questions need to be answered. The ridership figures look a little high at 480,000 a year on 6 trains a day. You can't build a railroad and walk away. It needs to be maintained,on a regular basis,track,signals,bridges etc. It has no signals or PTC, or even dispatching,that will be necessary costs with everything else.
What a clear, reasoned, and logical presentation of "the rest of the story". For me, I "found" two viaducts that had been abandoned -- over the Delaware and the Hainsburg. That led to the Cutoff and thence to more history. Thank you so much! Mike
@BeMoreBetter I'm glad you found my response so enlightening. Northeast railroad is a complex subject. I've been railfanning since the 70's. I've seen Pre-Conrail,Conrail and post Conrail. There is a really good back called the 'Men Who Loved Trains'by Rush Loving it goes into this way more than I can. I try to take a measured approach to why the railroads do what they do. I look at it in the time it was occurring. Economics change over the years.
Ray: I'll put that book down onto my "When I get a chance." Am right now reading "Antisemitism - A Very Short Introduction " by Steven Beller. Eye-opening, but not fun. Research for another in my response to the 10/7 attacks that murdered so many in Israel. Thanks, Mike@@RaymondTroth-cf3if
How can you do a video about the reasons the Cut Off was abandoned and NEVER EVER (!) MENTION ConRail??
Dave: You are not the first to point this out. The answer is that history has so much in it that it is easy to miss things. Sometimes I am able to sandwich material I find after filming into the video. Hope you learned something else non-the-less. We will see if the cutoff ever becomes operational again. I hope it does. Mike
That sounds similar to The Milwaukee Road bankruptcy
The Milwaukee Road was an amazing RR. Three years to get to the Pacific! Electrification!!! Thanks for reminding me of it. Mike
You've covered my 4 favorite viaducts. Thank you.
Railroad structures have always amazed and delighted me. There are so many of wonder. I plan to do others in time. Mike
It just happens they are geographically nearby me. There are so many others that are amazing, which I plan to get to eventually. Still, thank yoy!
William Truesdale the Father of the Cutoff!!
True. Good memory!
I thought Phoebe Snow was real. She had a few hit songs.
A singer born Phoebe took "Snow" as her last name. She had a hit in 1975, called "Poetry Man". The train pre-dated her -- being first used in 1900.
@@BeMoreBetter Took her name from a old boxcars that passed her home when New Jersey had freight trains on routes of NJ Transit today,. NJ Transit the billion dollar bus company that runs a few rail lines.
Greyhound and Martz I can assure you are dead set against any restoring of the Lackawanna Route. They benefit from any government programs and road improvements and they don't want competition nor sharing of any government funding. Use your head! Plus the commuter airlines to Scranton they have government grants, traffic control etc. The trains disappeared when the mail was put on GM trucks.
Competition by buses is real; but where the rail infrastructure exists, that helps. Its a complicated system, that's for sure.
@@BeMoreBetter Funny thing when Amtrak started May 1st 1971 . Over 600 trains were discontinued. BUS RIDERSHIP WENT DOWN!
When after 30 years Portland, Maine got passenger trains back. The DOWNEASTER service. Bus ridership went UP. Portland, Me. Is the size of Scranton and the same distance to Boston as Scranton is to NY. It had 800,000 riders before the virus.
@@Westerner78 Feel free to call me Mike. Am working on BMB #140 & 141. They are about the story of how RRs came from. I grew up on the side of Big Lick mountain in Pa. Huge coal mine. RRs born from Coal Mines.
@@BeMoreBetter Yup that's true. I believe the early ones were far back as the 1500's. They found the mules could pull more if the mine carts were up out of the mine mud on wooden rails. They also used people to shove and pull the carts of coal. Then some one hopped on and found they were fun to ride too!
0:26 because conrail became a piece of crap not wanting to run trains but to get rid of as much track as possible
One eyed hacker: First, I hope you have both eyes. My right eye has little vision. Second, your answer might be correct, but, and there's always a 'but,' mine has a bunch of more interesting detail. Third, tell me what you think of my video on how RRs were invented. Video #117. ruclips.net/video/ih6zZCcL9zA/видео.html Thanks, Mike
the Lackawanna cutoff was killed because conrail decided to do so in favor of pen central employees!!
Thanks for the comment. Many have told me that the decision was not "engineering" but rather to favor one company over the other. That might be true, but the factors I list are true also.
The NJ cutoff is coimg back.
The many comments here have been an education. Am looking forward to yours becoming a reality. Mike
steam is king
The inventiveness seen in the steam engines was wonderful; but technology finds better ways always. Phoebe Snow rode the road of anthracite because her clothes would stay white. Thanks for watching.
@@BeMoreBetter Until General Motors bought into the railroads for good rates and to make sure they bought their diesels. Then GM lobbied the government to put the last of the mail on their trucks. And take it off the trains. That bankrupted the private rail system. In 1967. A cut back downsized underfunded Amtrak was the result. 4 years later.
Why?
Because of the auto industry.
Simple.
And planes. New transportation modes have their place, but do require investments, including infrastructure.
Why no creamery's?
I love Blue Bell Dairys' milk and goods... It's Pennslyvania, for Christs' sake.
New Jersey, where I live, was also known for its milk products -- sent each morning to NYC. Don't know how they got there.
@@BeMoreBetter pipeline? Or by tanker truck
Such a big handsome man, and so passionate about the topic at hand. I just love watching your warm smile and the enthusiastic way in which you express yourself. Killer smile, too! I just watched this and know of what you are speaking:
ruclips.net/video/qWlcaZ8MtVs/видео.html
What a comment! You could have added that I have the body of a Greek God -- Bacchus (aka, Dionysus) -- which is well concealed under my layers of fat. I do enjoy many of my videos -- not those touching difficult topics, though. Those are an obligation, not a pleasure. Still, I doubly thank you as the video link you shared reminded of forgotten things -- with other videos to be found from it. Thank you and continue enjoying exploring. Mike
@@BeMoreBetter Thank you, Mike! I have subscribed and have liked not only this video but a few of your other presentations. Steve
@@SWExplore (Steve). There is (was) a big stairway next to the beautiful waiting room in Hoboken's Train station. I "accidentally" went up it, and through one of the many doors preventing further access (possibly following an employee). Beyond, there is a huge expanse -- almost as if it were another waiting room. The far wall had still the ferry destinations and schedules -- of boats which had not sailed in decades. It was the top-level for the ferry's. Many preferred the top level vs. the bottom. History is such a surprise when unexpectedly encountered. Stay well. Mike
@@BeMoreBetter Mike (you big handsome Adonis!), I wished you had recorded your accidentally wandering up to the top level to other waiting room. To have seen the decades-old destination schedules would have been such a wonderful sight. In the video link that I had shared earlier, I could see that the ferry labeled 'Scranton' did have two levels; now it makes sense that one would have been able to alight from either the upper or lower level of the ferry.
@@SWExplore Steve: Worked in NYC, Jersey City, etc. back a while. Stevens Institute of Technology in Hoboken was one of my schools. Retired now, it would have been wonderful to film so much from back then. My research for my books, talks, articles and videos amazes... and saddens. People were sometimes so smart... and stupid. How to maximize my impact is another question. Need a cute kitten. Mike
Thanks to stupid Conrail
The vision of so long ago literally shaped the landscape. Those who worked so hard are still, looking down at their work with pride.
That's terrible
Time and technology passes. This bypass is so impressive, am delighted they are trying to reopen it.
@@BeMoreBetter that's good
@@mariahhaarstick591 We'll see what happens in the future with the cutoff.
@@BeMoreBetter yup
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,make videos in the future out of camera...............................................
Apologies, but I don't understand what you are trying to convey Mike