(Almost) My Top 10 FANTASY COMICS | A Dozen Honorable Mentions
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- Опубликовано: 28 фев 2020
- What is the point of making a list if not to test, push and stretch yourself? In this video I challenge myself to hold strict, and arbitrary, standards and eliminate a dozen 'almost but not quite' comics from my eventual Top 10 Fantasy Comics list (coming soon!)
I wander through what is fantasy, my issues with genre classification, and the difference between what I love to read and what I put in lists, and why. Take a walk through and let me know in the comments below what you would put on your list, and what you would not.
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Start these series or explore these books here (Amazon affiliate links (and spoilers!)
Saga amzn.to/2PxY9TG
Saga of the Swamp Thing amzn.to/39dIVei
Hellboy amzn.to/2I6g67A
Usagi Yojimbo amzn.to/3ckIrFq
Conan amzn.to/32FgQu2
Attack on Titan amzn.to/2PyzCOb
Adele Blanc Sec amzn.to/2wUr0el
Everything We Miss amzn.to/3clmUwc
Peter Pan amzn.to/2VuBsUi
Sleepless amzn.to/32CcNhW
Monstress amzn.to/2wZzCAA
The Twilight Children amzn.to/2PDndbX
He Man minicomics! amzn.to/3anc47f
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Music: Jimmy Fontanez, Media Right Productions from RUclips Audio Library.
#comics #fantasy #top10 #collection #graphicnovels 
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I discovered this channel a few weeks ago, and so far i watched all "shelves" videos and few more. Your presentation feels natural and passion for comics really shows. I like your attention to details and even more your selection of books. Thank you for all of your amazing videos and keep up the good work.
Thanks so much, that's really appreciated. A warm welcome and I hope you find a lot more to enjoy here!
@Maximilian Julian instablaster =)
Such a great and thought provoking conversation on genre classification! :)
I'm so glad you enjoyed it! To be continued, in the next video 🙂
Excellent 'almost' fantasy list! That's actually an interesting discussion on itself, the labeling and classification of comics and other things. I kind of have the same issues in my head, so I completely get your struggle to narrow it down to specific fantasy elements... But great list as usual, love how you break down the stories of the comics you talk about.
Thank you! My struggle, luckily, is only in the making of a list for a video, not the actual reading and enjoyment, so it's a fun kind of torture 😋
Wonderful video. Looking forward to your next one. And also the one I requested on Insta about Prince Valiant 😁
Thanks so much! More Valiant needed, and I'm on it!
I enjoyed your ‘almost’ list, and look forward to your top 10. The MoTU comics included with the action figures bring back some fond memories for me as well. Hearing of your father acquiring them for you and how that has stuck with you gets me right in the feels. I’m really enjoying your content and your thoughtful delivery. Keep up the good work!
Thank you so very much, comments like this really make my day, and - in turn - get ME right in the feels! 😀
Wow, great job as usual! I like when your videos "meander", it really shows that it is difficult to talk in a straightforward manner about something you're excited about. My top fantasy pics would include the Oz series, drawn by Skottie Young (love that guy's style); the most recent Elric books by Titan Comics - they have amazing art that bring to life one of fantasy's granddaddies. And there are two that, in my mind, are "honorary fantasy" - the Mouse Guard series and the imaginative and trippy "Prophet" books by Image.
Thank you!
And the Shanower/Young Oz books were strongly considered here, in particular for the art. Such tough competition though, and I think I ended up picking Peter Pan in the 'adaptation of a classic fantasy' category, in spite of my slight misgivings, just for the extra bit of 'new' being brought in. Maybe I'll rue that choice one day? 😋
I need to check out Elric, thanks for the tip. As for your honorary picks, watch this space! 😁
That story about the He-Man minicomics was lovely. Just so pure
Thank you ❤️
Yes this was the video series I was waiting for 😃
Really appreciate your work.
Glad you liked it! More to come.😁
I really enjoyed watching your thoughts and process on how you went about sifting through your immense library to end up with only 10 picks. To start with, like you said, assigning a genre to a creative work is not always a clear and obvious choice. And "fantasy" is maybe the hardest genre to pin down, as it touches on so many aspects of imagination: fables, folklore, heroic fantasy, sword and sorcery, epic sagas, weird tales, etc. I agree with and understand all the choices you've made, as you made excellent points on why you couldn't include them in your final picks. All of them great works on their own, and all of them with obvious fantasy elements in them. A good exemple you picked is USAGI YOJIMBO (a series I share your love for): it is not a series I would class as pure fantasy either, it has a lot to do with legends and folklore of japanese mythology, but it even more so inspired by true history and culture of the samurai period, it is also an adventure and action series, etc. Looking forward to your final picks!
Thank you sir! Of course good comics are good comics, irrespective of genre, but it's always fun to see how tightly or loosely we can wind our personal lists 🙂!
Your videos are so amazing!!! Please keep up the great work!!!
Thank you so much, lovely to have such enthusiasm and support!
I really enjoy these excursions in your choices! And, certainly for me, you surely don't need to apologize for those you've 'left off' your top ten. You've always given Usagi rave rave reviews, and right so, and I agree, actually, that I've never thought of Usagi as fantasy--to me, it's a historical comic! I mean, sure, bunny rabbits and rhinoceroses with swords but I see them as stand-ins for more "human"-looking characters and overall, there's lots more historical sense than fantasy for me. Each of your reasons for your other 'near-misses' make sense to me. While I tired of Saga, oh maybe by the third volume (I get singles), and Monstress really after issue 1, most everything else you mention here is one of my favorites, too--Twilight children, not mentioned often, I guess, IS terrific. But He-Man? Well, hey, you certainly make a good case for YOUR choice--and a great background story to your choice. So you're much too serious and grown-up, eh...heh heh heh, says you whilst talking about...your love of comics!
Thank you and I'm glad you enjoyed it. I often think the whys and wherefores of individual choices are vital to choices made in lists like this, and make a good excuse for a ramble on, yes, serious topics like comics! 😋
I have learned to trust your opinion since the three Daytripper episodes. (I purchased the TP, then upgraded to the Omnibus.) I was curious about the Peter Pan book in your bookcase, so searched your site and found it in your “Almost Top Ten Fantasy” program. Now I have the author’s name and will begin my search. A bonus for me in this video was hearing your happy memories of He-Man and the Masters of the Universe mini-comics. I wrote the stories on pages 793, 837, 849, 867 and 1057 in the book, plus named toys in the She-Ra and He-Man toy line. Keep up the great program. Phil White
Thank you so much, for both your kinds words here and for your work that was such an indelible part of my childhood! I'm thrilled that one search led you to this other discovery, and I hope you find plenty to enjoy in the various other videos I have up here as well. Happy viewing and thank you once again! 😁
“Murder is definitely a crime”
For the Love of Comics.
I love it.
😁
Loved this almost list! Your reasoning seems sound and there's a lot of good comics here that I understand why didn't make the final cut. I'm really looking forward to more disqualified books and the ones that made your final cut. I don't know what will make your list, but I can assume we'll be seeing some heavy hitters like Sandman and Fables. Arclight by Brandon Graham and Marian Churchland is a favourite of mine!
Viva las disqualified!
So glad you enjoyed this! I've read a couple of Brandon Graham books I've really enjoyed but never Arclight. You say I should look into that? 🙂
@@ftloc Absolutely. Churchland's artwork is gorgeous.
Hi, love the video and the list (I only knew about the first three, monstress and twilight). On a side note, did you read Fables (I just finished it and feel the first 75 issues make an amazing arc). I would personally recommend Descender (mostly si-fi but has some fantasy) and Blackbird (noir hidden fantasy world with amazing art). Looking forward to the top 10
Tha k you so much!
I love Fables and I really enjoyed Descender as well. I have not yet read Blackbird, only seen those lovely covers 🙂. I'm keeping an eye out for a TPB at a good price, fingers crossed!
So good to see you continue making videos!
I have the new absolute swamp thing, but should i also pick up the older hardcovers with original coloring? Im torn as the paper quality isnt great
Thank you! Feels good to be back, although I am also enjoying taking a bit more time to get the look and feel closer to the ideal in my head 😁
If you like the new colours, then you already have the finest production of this story. But if you don't (I for example, am not sold on them yet) all I can say is that I don't have any issues with the paper of the original HCs. Sure it feels a little 'old', but it's definitely part of the charm, it's better than the singles newsprint (at least to my untrained eyes) and I love the form factor of 6 volumes for the saga, to be quite honest.
I love this channel. I am going to start reading more graphic novels. What I love most about this channel is that the creator has a vast array of knowledge. I love doing research. I am so grateful that it's already done for me. LOL! I keep having too many lists of graphic novels to read. I will use this channel to start choosing from this channel. :) I'm very excited. I've been thinking of making BookTube content. How do I get started?
Thank you for such kind and generous words! It warms my heart to read this comment because I love the idea of discovering and rediscovering comics and all the different stories told in this medium. Long may your enjoyment of this channel continue!
great picks & now you really got me hooked for your actual top 10 ... and yes, fantasy is such a hodgepodge of a genre, really hard to define when it's not 100% dwarves and dragons with long beards etcetera - for an example I would never thought of Adele as being anything near to fantasy but of course you're right
and my, that Luke Pearson book looks wonderful!
Oh yes, Everything We Miss is a gem of a book, and I'm sure you'll love it if you get a chance to check it out!
I wonder if fantasy should be called a 'supergenre' since it seems to have perhaps the most subgenres nested within it?
So glad you liked the video!
Love the way you making list and love the you explain and why can't you make a video on Calvin and Hobbes complete
Haha definitely will happen, but I'm working my way up to it!
Looking at all the disqualifications I am surprised mouse guard didn't make the "almost" list. Because despite having a fantastic world building. The stories and the characters are more human I feel. (Or maybe I am forgetting the fantasy part of it).
Very prescient of you! There are more comics to come, including more disqualifications and honourable mentions. I hope you're strapped in for the long term! 😁
@@ftloc Ah yes. I forgot there are more disqualifications to come too. And certainly like always I look forward to it.
My first video of yours, really great list, really great points, really great video! Here's a subscription! Keep it up!
Much, much appreciated! Welcome to the channel and I hope you find plenty more here to enjoy!
What fun! Calling it now, Bone and Sandman will be in your top ten. One day Berserk will be as well, but I'm also calling that it won't be this time since I don't think you've read the entire run yet. Interested to see where Castle Waiting and Little Nemo fall in the spectrum, as well as seeing if there's anything I haven't heard of yet! (I kind of want to read those He-Man comics after this video.)
I'm resisting reacting 😐
@@ftloc Unrelated, but here's a quick heads up in case you hadn't heard of this yet and were ready to bleed even MORE money. I think we talked about this series before during your top ten SF video, but now it's being released in a format to match the Limited Edition Incal that you've done a video on previously. This one is also Limited Edition (run of 1500), so if you need self-justification you can just tell yourself it would be more expensive to get it later XD (as we do). ruclips.net/video/lhuzP84Wlf0/видео.html
Curse you sir, that looks gorgeous!
You're on a roll! Thanks for another great video!
Thanks so much! This was a particularly tough one, technically, so this is much appreciated! 😁
Very nice video, and i have those tardi adela both the volume and love tardi's work, mainly on the war and others like murder in the Street of paris, but the murder on the street of paris still not available in Amazon may on the market month of April
The Streets of Paris, Streets of Murder collection volume you refer to reprints Like a Sniper Lining up his Shot and Run Like Crazy, Run Like Hell, both adaptions of Manchette novels. However, there's a Nestor Burma mystery, following Fog on Tolbiac Bridge, called The Bloody Streets of Paris that has yet to be reprinted by Fantagraphics. That's based on a Leo Malet novel, just like Tolbiac Bridge. I wouldn't mind a shiny new copy of that!
@@ftlocyes the street of paris and murder of paris of tardi is still not available in Amazon, is there any other way to buy them
The second volume doesn't publish till August, but you may want to keep an eye out for the two volume box set scheduled for November! 😉
I love how you look so torn about disqualifying He-Man.
I still haven't gotten over it! 😁
Love your videos!!
Thanks so much! Long may that continue! 😁
Definitely this last was very interesting and some of them I read myself like monstress I really do think it's really great series but I can understand why did make your top 10 for fantasy.
And there's one or two of them that got me really intrigued because I've heard about them but the way you're talking about a big sound really good like Sleepless. That would definitely got my interest
Thank you and I'm so glad to hear that! If you do give Sleepless a shot, I'd love to know what you thought of it.
I have two more videos continuing this list (the shortlist and the actual Top 10) which I hope you'll enjoy too! 😁
@@ftloc 👍👍👍👍👍 I'll definitely give those list of look
To me, Monstress was a lesson in the dangers of being a fanboy. The first ten pages of vol.1 were absolutely outstanding: a subtle, dense introduction to what seemed like immensely ambitious fantasy worldbuilding. This was exactly the kind of comic book I had been waiting for! But it was not to be. To use fancy terminology, Monstress is psychological storytelling, concerned with the interiority of the main character, while I wanted sociological stroytelling, concerned with human and institutional relationships. Based on those first ten pages, I had developed preconceived notions of what Monstress was going to be. Sadly, the creators had different ideas.
I don't like the cat, a fan favourite, apparently.
Well, at the risk of being snide, if "Monstress" failed you there's always Urasawa Naoki's "Monster", which, while not a fantasy per se, is concerned with exactly what you seem to be attracted to.
@@haywoco2 that's one that been on MY list forever, just unable to find properly priced volumes...
This Naoki Urasawa fellow keeps popping up wherever I go. Well then, off to the summer reading list it goes!
@@vellu5000 Monster is one of the absolute best manga. Definitely worth it.
That's a really good analogy for genres, it actually applies in music and all other art forms.
Btw, have you ever read Corto Maltese comics?
Yes, I think what I feel about 'genre' can loosely apply to a lot of art forms, and that's the way I like to think of it best. When making a list, though, I try and restrict myself in as many ways as possible, just to spur discussion (and leave comics for other, future lists😁)
And I love Corto Maltese. You can catch a quick glimpse of my IDW volumes in my Shelf Seven video!
@@ftloc That's awesome, didn't really doubt you, but had to ask. Corto is probably my favorite comic ever, we have so much things in common and I admire his character so much. I really feel some kind of a personal connection to him, like he is actually real, and some kind of a lost brother or cousin haha. Hugo Prat is also a great guy and had an amazing life. I have five paperback issues, and all the rest of them in PDF. There's this comic publisher in my country that published Corto with hard cover and in color, they're definitely the most beautiful books in my collection. I recommend you to try to find them in color, (even in pdf) the unique watercolor style is just beautiful and unique. Cheers!
I would love to own some Corto Maltese in colour - I've seen some pictures and they look great. And I have Pratt's The Man from the Great North in a colour hardcover in English and I love the way that book reads. If only they would do the same for Corto Maltese but I don't think that's happening anytime soon, alas!
I was a very demanding naughty child; always demanding storybooks like Tintin, Chacha Chowdhuri, Fantom, Billu, Nante Fante (I am Bengali). When I was 7, I had high-grade jaundice which made me vomit everything. Soo weak could not lift my head, refused my favorite food. Seeing my condition my dad did what he had never done before- surprised me with the total set of He-Man Mini comics. I was published by Diamond comics in India ( 4 rupees each). My parents never surprised me before, It made me so happy. I totally indulged in the marvelously drawn world of He-Man. My pain and suffering from the disease were gone because of this book. Yes, Its nostalgia but we Indian kids know its true meaning. Dad left me 9 yrs ago, But the memory is still fresh. I already purchased the DHorse book you are holding as I lost those mini-comic books.
How lovely. And how similar our stories are, and we share such stories with hundreds if not thousands. I've lost count of how many 'my parents got me comics when I was sick' tales I've shared and had shared with me through the years. It's a curious and wonderful common experience. I lost my father just last month, and my deepest condolences for your loss and pain, which too I share.
I create my own tags on Goodreads and use it to track my books/comics. I leave reviews on Amazon and Goodreads to keep track of what I've read so far (the reviews help boost sales).
Those are excellent, and very generous, methods! I've never used Goodreads before viewers of this channel started sharing links, but I've often relied on Amazon reviews when trying new works for many, many years now.
New to this channel and love it
Welcome to the channel and I'm so thrilled you're enjoying it. Long may that continue! 🙂
Nostalgia is a weird thing. There are many comics of my childhood that I have zero intention of revisiting. Yet some of the absolute finest of the medium I was introduced to at a very young age, and continue to adore. To use toy commercial comics as an example, Simon Furman’s Transformers does little to me as an adult, while the first 90 issues or so of Larry Hama’s G.I Joe continue to be the finest long-running soap opera comic I have ever come across. I genuinely believe nostalgia is not the deciding factor of quality, yet there is no way to be sure. Maybe you could make a video about He-man, and nostalgia in general?
What a good idea, and you make some excellent points that I find myself almost completely in agreement with. It's also interesting to note how many masterpieces as well as pieces of nonsense I was introduced to as a child and may have similar nostalgia for, irrespective of current evaluation, just like you.
The joys Nd perils of nostalgia would be an excellent topic for a video, but I don't think I'm anywhere near that incisive, eloquent or technically accomplished enough to pull it off in the way that it deserves, at least now. Let me stew on that and one day I will definitely attempt it in a properly thoughtful way!
Cheers!
I think some might say you over analyze things,but to be honest I am guilty of the same thought process,and as such,really enjoy your in depth book reviews.
There is currently a fantasy Manga Series being reprinted by Dark Horse Comics in new Deluxe Oversize format called ‘Berserk’.
Vol 4 is actually being released later this month,three volumes to be released a year eventually releasing thirteen volumes.
Anyway if you are looking for material to review, I personally would really like to hear Your analysis and review of this series and each Deluxe book as released.
Either way good video,and good to see your Chanel up and running again. 🍻
Thank you! And haha, yes, I don't quite believe in 'over analyzing' because I feel discussion and analysis is a good thing and the reason I wanted to make RUclips videos. I mean, there are all kinds of approaches, and 'this was awesome, this was cool' is there aplenty in many channels, I wanted more talk! 😁
And I've gotten the first two Deluxes of Berserk, but not finished them yet. I'm not yet sure if I will stick to the whole series, but I'll know by the time I'm done with these.nyourbidea, though is a good one. If I can guarantee myself staying current with the releases, it's worth a shot. I'm just worri d that my buying doesn't follow proper schedules! 😁
For the Love of Comics
I am in a similar predicament.
I have purchased (but not yet read) Berserk Vol 1,2,3.
Although I have read many positive reviews on the series.
I have also been advised by fellow readers not to Judge the series on the material contained in the First two Volumes of Deluxes but to persevere through to volumes 3 & 4 (released later this month) as this is where apparently the Series comes into its own.
Either way I think your style of review and critical analysis would make an interesting review of the series (how ever far you get)
BTW I really appreciated the review you did of the Tintin 23 book collection.
Your review actually brought me back to the Tintin Books. 🤝
Tintin was the first Comic book series (after Astérix)that I read as a child which later led me in my very early teens to main stream Marvel & DC & independent comics,and your review reminded me of all the childhood Sunday’s I spent reading Astérix & Tintin and as such I have now added the Tintin Boxset to my Amazon cart and look forward to re-reading the books I remember and the few I missed,but in chronological Order.
Anyway keep up the Good Work 😏👍
@@claudiofrezza4862 thank you so much, and our childhood experiences with Tintin sound very similar! There were always gaps to be filled in then, and I don't think I read them in anywhere near chronological order 😁
Thank you for this video.
My pleasure!
Comics are such a cool medium...thanks, again. Now, do you like whiskey? And, coffee or tea? I'm a tea guy, myself and all whiskey is delicious. A little sip, whilst reading, is a high recommendation.....Love all your picks, same....Oh, I will recommend Comictropes, a great You Tube channel....Hellboy is so fun...Cheers!
I love both tea and coffee. As for whiskey...
ruclips.net/video/IySFQ5jYj1s/видео.html
Well spoken and intelligent!
Thank you, glad you liked it! I hope you get to check out the other two videos in this series as well!
For getting into Conan, I'd recommend starting with the original run of Savage Sword of Conan that began in 1974. Of course Savage Sword ran all the way to 1995 with 235 issues, but it's particularly the issues of the first few years that are highly regarded by fans. This is also where most of Robert E. Howard's original stories were put into comic form, whereas later on you get mostly new material of varying quality. Marvel is currently in the process of releasing some great hardcover omnibus editions, although you should be able to find the earlier Dark Horse paperbacks. Some of them are also available on Comixology.
You might get a particular kick out of the story 'People of the Black Circle', as this story partly revolves around the kingdom of Vendhya, the fictional version of India in Howard's psuedo-historical Hyborian world. It's based on an original novella by Howard of the same title.
Thanks so much - that sounds great! Marvel will be/ are reprinting the earliest Save Sword stories, you say? If so, I am am guessing that would be the most convenient way for me to source them (once this lockdown ends!) compared to hunting out older DH paperbacks here in India.
I'll also look up Pledge of the Black circle and where / when it appears! Thanks again, this gives me a very clear target, always great to have when faced with such an intimidating ocean of work.
So far there are three hardback omnibuses of SSoC published by Marvel, the fourth is coming out in a few days. I expect especially the first one to become hard to find in the near future. It's already unavailable on the UK Amazon, but is still in stock on the American one.
Also keep in mind that there have been two Conan comics that have run parallel: the aforementioned Savage Sword of Conan and one simply titled Conan the Barbarian. Conan the Barbarian was subject to the Comic's Code Authority (CCA), which regulates the contents of American comic books, whereas Savage Sword was not. This means Conan the Barbarian is a more kid friendly Conan, whereas Savage Sword has a darker tone with more adult content.
If you're interested in both, Marvel is also publishing omnibuses of the Conan the Barbarian comics. Just keep in mind Savage Sword of Conan and Conan the Barbarian were not the same comic.
To make matters more complicated, in a lot of countries (like mine) all the Conan comics were simply published as Conan the Barbarian, including translations of both Conan the Barbarian and Savage Sword comics. And today of course the re-imaginings of among others Kurt Busiek are all titled Conan the Barbarian, except until very recently when they started with another reboot titled Savage Sword of Conan!
I love fantasy fiction. I consider myself a reasonably omnivorous comic reader, but everything I personally collect has to have some kind of escapist element to it, so fantasy is obviously close to my heart.
I found the discussion of genres ironic, because almost everything that gets to be on my shelf is the top dog in a neat little genre box: best noir, best western, best melodrama and so on. Second best will not do.
While some works are indeed difficult to put in specific box, I find that categorizing really does work for the majority of comics. An otherwise excellent work will not get a place on my shelf if it shares too many genre trappings with, or is otherwise too similar to an even better work. It just would not feel right.
To use your example, a murder mystery is a subgenre of crime fiction. If and when I find a murder mystery comic that particularily tickles my fancy, it will exclude lesser murder mysteries from my collection. But not other types of crime fiction: police procedural, superhero, conspiracy thriller et cetera. A genre blend might also work, but like I said, I think those works are a minority.
And a particularily great work can and will distinguish itself by striking out and creating a completely new box for itself: best puns, best metacomic, best retro-scifi and so on.
So I wonder if your philosophy might even be a complete polar opposite from mine?
I have not read all of these works, and yes, genre lines are sometimes fuzzy, but:
Hellboy, Monstress, Sleepless, Attack on titan and Peter pan all all seem fairy tales/heroic fantasy, with Conan and He-man belonging to the sub-genre of swords and sorcery.
Saga is clearly space opera, which is essentially heroic fantasy but with sci-fi aesthetic.
Swamp thing, Twilight children and Everything we miss are all contemporary fantasy, or magical realism, where the fantastic elements are brought closer to our familiar world.
Usagi straddles the line between historical fiction and fantasy, while Adele straddles the line between detective story and fantasy. I have only briefly flipped trough Adele, and its aesthetic seemed a bit steampunky to me: it is on my to-read list.
Yes, you've hit the nail on the head by illustrating all of these as sub-genres within 'fantasy'. So since fantasy is a 'supergenre', a Top 10 Fantasy list would/should/could include all subgenres within it. Of course, there's also hybrids between genres - like sci-fi-fantasy (space opera or otherwise), horror-fantasy etc, so I think what I do for the sake of the list (and entertainment, and discussion) is keep all subgenres, but disqualify hybrids. Once again, this is irrespective of merit, and just to test and stretch myself in listmaking.
On further reflection, I think you are correct: genre mixing is more common and fluid than I thought.
I think I assign genres first and foremost based on the tone, mood and other emotional colour of the work. Spaceships and rayguns create a specific tonal tapestry for the author to play with, as do fantasy landscapes and monsters, or rainy back alleys and dingy nightclubs. But genre is more than just tone: it is also about theme and structure, at the very least.
Take my favorite comedy, for example: incisive, yet ultimately warm-hearted lampooning of people and their strange ways, unfailingly hilarious. Clearly, a comedy? It feels like a comedy! Well, I was thinking about it critically yesterday, and it turns out to be structured exactly like a heroic fantasy. Lone hero or a small group at most go on a journey to fix things, meet strange new people, places and challenges, triumph, come back home having learned new things. The author was not concerned with the emotions I associate with heroic fantasy: wonder, mystery, excitement, wanderlust. But that did not stop him from using its conventions as a structural scaffolding for his work! So, what genre is it?
So just because I firstly care about the tone and emotion of a work, and classify works based on that, does not mean the author has not mixed genres to arrive at that very emotion. And not always in an obvious way, either.
How interesting to think of tone and emotion as genre features. I think there are 'spectrums of classification' and I suppose I put tone/ emotion in a different spectrum or range than I do the trappings I usually associate with genre.
So, a story can be hopeful, happy, bleak, nihilistic, cruel, idealistic, and more , but those can combine with 'trappings' genre classification like sci-fi, historical fiction, fantasy (that have to do with setting) in various combinations.
So cyberpunk may be a subgenre within sci-fi, and perhaps one of the hallmarks of cyberpunk is bleakness. But sci-fi can itself be optimistic and utopian (say Star Trek) as much as it can be dark and gloomy. So why can't you can have a fun, anarchic, gleeful cyberpunk then, one that revels in freedoms and is joyous instead of bleak? I would still say it is sci fi in genre, cyberpunk in subgenre, and optimistic or comic in tone, if I were to use a product hierarchy/ metadata approach.
The issue gets interesting with labels like noir or mystery, where tone, delivery and atmosphere are definitely components of the genre/subgenre classification, but even there I believe we could have a noir comedy, or sci fi noir comedy satire.
Of course certain genres and subgenres are dominated by certain tones and emotions, but that's more a quantitative observation about what people have done and published and not so much about what could _possibly_ be part of the genre. Dominant factors (anecdotal, only 'true' till someone changes it) becoming defining hallmarks (broad strokes to classify for ease) is a bit of a slippery slope, a bit akin to people thinking 'comics' means 'superhero' just because of cultural popularity of association.
Well, I do think a system of tagging and metadata is noticeably more complicated and sophisticated than mine. Bring me a happy noir or a optimistic cyberpunk that captures my heart, and I will bluntly make a whole new genre box for it, simply because it would feel so radically different and new. A completely new animal, setting itself apart from what came before.
You have really got me thinking on what I collect and why. On further further reflection, "genre box" is maybe a bad term, and "ecological niche" would be better. Genre, subgenre, tone, worldview, and so on: skew these parameters enough and the work just might define a new ecological niche for itself, and a place on my shelf. Or don’t skew them, stick to what has been done before, in which case the work has to be outright better than the apex predator occupying the niche already.
You might be interested in Wittgenstein's concept of "Family Resemblance".
Have you read D.R. & Quinch? Also Marvel's "The Wonderful Wizard of Oz" 2009, 8 comic edition.
I have read DR and Quinch thanks to the 2000 AD collected volume, and i really enjoyed the Shanower Young Oz books. I wish there were more! 😁
I want to write comics like Monster Hunter International, Hellboy, Trese, and Wynonna Earp. A modern world with supernatural creatures and professional monster hunters who get paid to hunt them. But not all monsters are evil and some are good, but there's no moral dilemma about staking a vampire. Sorry for the long comment. 😬
Haha no such thing as too long a comment here on FtLoC! 😁
if you have a problem with genre, you might as well make a top 10 genre-defying comics list for everything that doesn't fit so well in certain bixes.
A Top 10 unclassifiable comics sounds like a great idea!. My previous thoughts along these lines came up with Top 10 WTF Comics, haha, and I'm sure there will be overlaps!
My guy you NEED to catch up on Attack on Titan. It's achieved the status of modern classic. Mind-bending storytelling.... should make it into your top 10 once you're up to date.
I know! The next colossal editions are long overdue on my shelf too!
Brom wrote his own version of Peter Pan called "The Child Thief". It's chapter in the book has it's own painting by the artist. It's a good read and Brom is a excellent artist.
Is this a prose novel? I will look it up - thanks for the recommendation!
@@ftloc It's a full on novel with chapter paintings by the author so it's not a graphic novel. It's more like the old kids books when they came with interior illustrations and it's a fairly dark take on Peter Pan. He also wrote "Krampus" that also comes with illustrations. In his version Santa Claus and Krampus are brothers vying for the spirit of Christmas and like the Krampus myths it's basically a horror story. They're fun reads if you like a new twist on a old tale.
Pan's Labyrinth is without a doubt one of my all-time favorites movies and I fully believe that it WASN'T in her head, for the simple fact that she received the piece of magical chalk from Pan and later Captain Vidal found and picked up that same chalk.
🙂 The density of that movie, which I consider a masterpiece, allows for it to be simply a piece of chalk that she used as a prop for her escaping mind that he finds. It's similar to a couple of other things I've seen, like the Fall, the ending of Mirrormask or even an episode of Buffy, but the most beautifully done of them all.
@@ftloc don't forget though that her room at the end was locked from the outside and she only escaped due to her chalk ;) I've never heard of Mirrormask or the Fall, I assume they're older?
To understand the distinction between murder mystery and crime thriller, you need to understand Hitchcock, who pretty much invented the thriller. The difference is that second word, mystery vs thriller. The 'whodunnit' was not an interesting genre to Hitchcock, he felt it was too cold and intellectual - you go through it more cerebrally, trying to figure out who the culprit is. Whereas the thriller is about suspense - crime thrillers are really just a kind of suspense thriller. Suspense is a different animal to mystery, it's emotional not cerebral. And this emotional aspect is what interested Hitchcock, so much so that it became part of his brand as the 'master of suspense'.
I completely agree with what you're saying, and am quite an admirer of Hitchcock, as well as John Buchan, and appreciate their contributions tremendously. My point here was not about the vocabulary as much as the insistence that all these genres somehow separate regions, instead of overlapping and intersecting broad-strokes descriptors. A mystery, even a whodunnit, can be thrilling and contain edge of seat suspense, excitement and anxiety, and that's why I feel insisting they are somehow mutually exclusive is just not an approach that appeals to me 😁
@@ftloc yes I also prefer the overlapping tags approach, sectioning doesn't work. Genre gets extraordinarily complex the deeper you look into it. Even apparently concrete genres like 'noir' and 'western' become fuzzy like a cloud when you try and nail down what they actually signify. Fantasy is the same, I mean David Lynch makes fantasy movies, of the dream-logic variety, but they're so unique to him we have to define them simply as Lynchian.
@@system-error Ah that's what I love about adjectives like Lynchian, Kafkaesque and Hitchcockian - not only do they celebrate a particularly forceful talent, but they also show how genres are fluid and dynamic and tools for artists more than boundaries!
@@ftloc true, although having that kind of success can also limit the artist in certain ways due to them becoming a 'brand' - for example Lynch has several unmade comedy scripts, he has a love for silly comedy that you can see in nearly all of his films, but it's generally ignored by the Lynchian critics and analysts when they define what is Lynchian. And conversely, when Mel Brooks was producing The Elephant Man, he hid his name on the poster in case audiences expected it to be a silly comedy because of the Mel Brooks name/brand being attached.
Kind of unrelated, but Your English is really great. Like your grammar is perfect. But your accent is so strong. I'm sorry I don't mean to be rude I just wanted to let you know. If nobody mentioned it you might not even notice it and try to fix it. I'm really sorry I hope I'm not being rude
I've been told my accent is British by Indians, it is American by British folks, that it is Indian by Americans. A man in a McDonalds once told me I sounded like I was from Jamaica, people have asked me where I was born, if I have mixed parentage, where I was educated and much, much more. All I have found is that it is much more about ears than the accent itself and I've been lucky enough to hear and understand everyone easily enough with just some attention, and been lucky enough to have such attention paid to me in turn. It's quite a lovely world out there.
I liked the idea of grabbing a drink before the meatier discussion began. Salud 🍻
Chin-chin! 😁
I am always wary of critical assesment of unfinished stories that have a grand arc. Once we finally reach the end of Saga sometime around 2035, I will read it all trough, but with some tempered expectations. Both Y the last man and Ex machina were absolute page turners, only to be marred by lackluster endings. Let’s hope this time will be different.
I don't know about Ex Machina (cause I haven't read it) but the ending to Y: The last man wasn't that bad (I thought it was bad at first but liked it on reread)
I was so angry with the end of Y, I really hated Brian K Vaughan for a while 🙂! But I've found myself grow to *really* like it, and admire the storytelling chops to stay 'true' to the story the way that ending does. Ex Machina, on the other hand, I just love, and am fine with ending. It feels classic and earned and inevitable and startling at the same time. Maybe I'm just a pushover for idealism filtered through that particular lens? 😁
So I think this topic merits further discussion, beyond just "Well, I hated the ending and that’s that." It has been a while since I read either work so I’m going from memory.
Y the last man, to me, is pretty hard sci-fi. It is our world, but with a twist. The connections to our society form the core of the drama and tension. The lynchpin of the finale is the israeli soldier who wants specifically to be killed by a man, and antagonizes poor Yorick because of this. I found this an unmotivated, out-of-the-left-field twist, because sexism does not work like that at all in our world. In a sexist mind, masculinity is performative, entirely dependant on power and status, of which Yorick has neither, and his y-chromosome does not change any of that. Logically, an authoritarian, sexist person like the israeli soldier would have been obsessed with the most powerful woman of the society, if anyone at all. Certainly not Yorick. I found the characterization inauthentic: it did not have the ring of truth for me.
The central character of Ex machina, smart and capable mayor whatshisname, is pulled in two directions: to be a do-gooder superhero, or to wield political power. In the end, after a climactic superhero confrontation where he saves the world, he shockingly severs all connections with his superhero side, becoming (sigh) vice-president to John McCain. The problem is, in this world superhero shenanigans clearly work, and are clearly the better method of dealing with the threats of the universe. And the mayor should know this better than anyone: he was there! He saved the world! The main character of the story becoming an eeevil villain is in itself not a bad twist. But it is quite undramatic if, doing so, he comes across as a bit of a moron.
So I find a common pattern here: Shocking climactic twists that feel unearned because they are entirely dependant on unbelievable characterization. The end result is a story that does not feel like it has as much dramatic weight to it as it could have had. I fear, when 2047 finally rolls around and the final issue of Saga is at hand, will we find out that Marko really was a secret agent all along, out to create the perfect biological hybrid weapon, leading to a tragic father-daughter confrontation, or somesuch?
@vellu5000 haha oh dear now I'll never get that ending out of my head while reading Saga 😁!
I think you make some fantastic points about both Y and Ex Machina, and I would read them in a similar way. But Alter's sexism is a blind one, vestigial from a gone world, and who Yorick really is doesn't matter to her blindness. She may well consider herself the most powerful woman in the world, but it still doesn't match up to a man?
And Mitchell Hundred becoming what he beheld may be a cliche on paper, but the execution was well done, I felt. Power could have muddled his judgement, and again what is obvious to you and me as readers in our omnipotence may not always be so to the characters on the page.
I think when I think of flaws in stories, I am less inclined toward absolute believability in the complete sense, even when argued with terms like internal logic and the world of the story. The arcs of singular, peculiar characters has to interest me and stick with me, and good stories do that in spite of how I would have behaved or the decision I would have made (however empathetic I may be) not come to pass.
That was a great run down . So in 2016 I bought Attack On Titan colossal volumes one thru three , finished the first two and completely abandoned volume three I will never go back and read it the series just left me dead and completely disillusioned unfortunately.
How interesting - why was that?
The attack on titan season 4 is amazing!
That's what I heard! Alas, I have still to get to it...
I urge you to check out Vault comics they mostly publish great fantasties
Vault TPBs are hard to come by here where I am. I loved the first two issues of These Savage Shores, and the first issues of Resonant were also quite engaging but I haven't read anything else. What would you recommend?
@@ftloc The Plot, Fearscape (my favourite) and Heathen
Also I should ask you,where do you buy your comics,you have a huge collection, I use Amazon but many stuff are out of stock
@@thecomicreadern4344 I've been buying stuff for a while, so many now defunct online sellers like A1 and Infibeam help me get many comics, especially second hand ones. Amazon's secondhand marketplace also was good for a while. These days they're only good for in print titles, so I have to rely on people traveling abroad and lugging back eBay and other purchases for me. I get by with a little help from my friends!
I read some Hellboy as a kid, and was not that impressed. It seemed like a collection of "cool" elements (Demons! Darkness! Nazis! Big gun!) without really melding together to form a compelling story or world. Looking to revisit it as an adult, what is the story arc that stands above the rest? A "golden age" of Hellboy?
I'm really a fan of the short stories in particular, maybe you could dip your toe in those waters thanks to the new omnibus collecting them all?
Why not Bone? 😲
It's the almost list! Watch this space! 😀
Lettering is a perfectly good reason to judge or partly judge a comic. A great deal of overly slick computer generated lettering really jars. The wrong type of lettering can ruin a comic for me.
I agree wholeheartedly heartedly. In fact, how much care is given to the letters often serves as shorthand for me when looking at indie, or self published, comics to quickly judge who's taking what they're doing seriously and who's not.
@@ftloc I was given a copy of Jonathan Hickman's Pax Romana some years ago as a birthday present. I opened the book and thought "Uurgh! I can't read this". I think I managed just 15 pages. The lettering was just so offensive to me. I particularly love Eddie Campbell's lettering and it's part of why I think he's a great artist along with his actual art and writing. All three are excellent to me. (Not a fan of his computer generated work though, I find it a bit naff).
I recommended fullmetal alchemist
"Berserk" should be included in your list. Just my opinion.
How interesting! Have you had a chance to check out the other two videos in this series - especially Part 1 here: ruclips.net/video/cWR21OTy27w/видео.html ?
😀
15:15 a manga fan ?
Sure! Although I've read far fewer manga than American or even European comics, some of my favourite comics of all time are manga. If interested, do check out my Lone Wolf and Cub videos ( ruclips.net/p/PLf2B7UoR9NKX07dUQ_6UjAkzUmHSmcxqZ ) as well as my Top 10 Sci Fi comics videos ( part of these List videos ruclips.net/p/PLf2B7UoR9NKVthCbMtOGfKlz_4vbJ4IVA )
Also, Shelf 8 and Shelf 12 in my Complete Comics Collection tours playlist ( ruclips.net/p/PLf2B7UoR9NKXZmUIzDgAp-41MzR9JW5zt ) have the majority of my small manga collection so far.
Cheers!
Sir please make videos in Hindi plzzz plzzz
I love talking to comics fans all over the world through my videos (apparently only 11% of my audience is from India, and even there not everyone speaks Hindi) which is why English is the choice for me.
Also, to be honest, I think I can best express myself in English, just as somebody else may better express themselves in some other language. The great thing about RUclips is that everything can be present as a choice for people.
I do hope you try out our videos even though they are in English!
@@ftloc thanks for responding me ♥️
I continue to be mystified by the critical praise for Loisel’s Peter Pan. I have read far too many "edgy" comic books, superhero and otherwise, to know when a work is substituting shocking elements for hard-earned emotional connection with the reader. I mean, Peter Pan’s mother literally gets killed by Jack the Ripper of all people. Are you sure you are not going to cut yourself on all that edge?
The storytelling is unmemorable and the artwork is lumpy and unappealing, save for some impressive landscape panels here and there.
I admired the cruelty, insufferability and selfishness of children presented so frankly, and the thrills of adventure and discovery going hand in hand with being blasé and flippant towards other wonders around you. The melodrama and episodic pacing were also well matched to the lazy, timeless feel of the adventure, all of which made it,for me, a superb adaptation and extension of the original book. Peter was a selfish, bratty and often cruel kid, as were many of the kids in that book. Tinker Bell was terrible! Wendy was a wet blanket and a bit of a precocious mother hen. But they all felt like real children, and the absence of absolute candy colouring, while being still magical, is what makes JM Barrie's book so special to me and what I think Loisiel gets really right.
But the stuff before Neverland I agree with you on, and while much of the art I find gorgeous and fitting to such an 'in-between kids and adults' tale there does remain some incongruity that I've not quite out my finger on. It may well be what you speak of, although I doubt I'll ever find it unattractive.
You've made a terrible mistake brother. Your Nausica set should be turned 180deg so we wont be able to see them missing from the shelf when they make to top ten vid
Hahah, oh well done. But let me ask you, have you watched my Top 10 Sci Fi Comics video? 😁
ruclips.net/video/4VgeoF4UVkM/видео.html
@@ftloc Aghh dang it I have. Wit matched and thwarted sir
No it doesn't.
Video starts at 3:59
This does not have top 10
That's why it's an 'almost'! 😁