Basic summary: at that sort of temperature, you get cementite (pretty unwanted carbide) forming - hold it at the temp for long enough and you get too much cementite forming, and it will migrate to the boundaries of the steel grain and screw it all up. So it will still register as hard, but cementite has a terrible crystal structure which causes the brittleness.
Just to see if I fully understood it, that would mean then that tempering hardenable steels to anything above bronze to below blue will get that type of brittleness due to the changed crystalline structure. I personally have tempered to a purple for 50 min using my forge thinking that it would soften the very hardened steel and it does. Is there a specific time frame for when it turns to cementite. Is it possible to temper between 500 - 600f using other methods to avoid that formation in the steel? Would love to know. I used spring steel, maybe the alloys in it prevent it from happening? Just trying to get my head around doing it correctly as springs are tempered within those ranges as far as I know to make them springy. Hope you don't mind all those questions.
No prob thanks for getting back to me. Maybe someone else knows. I think it would pose a very helpful question for a vid. Well Walter what you think? Anyone?
When you were warning about the danger of inhaling bad things I swear I heard you say “I have a respirator, and I’m a Jedi Master so it won’t effect me” lol. Great video. I love your style of teaching.
You were the first knife maker I ever watched and you have taught me almost everything I know about knife making and now I’m making and selling my own thanks to you! Your such an inspiration and have made thousands of people become bladesmiths like you Thank you so much man!
Mr. Sorrels, What is the longest machete that you have ever made. Also, what are the differences and draw backs to them? I have been watching your videos for a while and enjoy them as well as the skill that you put into your work. Johnny
4 lanyard tubes would be a touch lighter and can still be flared in an arbor press for a good mechanical fastener, especially with these type handle materials!! Wood cracks easily with flared pins...
You might want to look into the safety of handling CF dust. It appears to have some of the same properties as asbestos and that’s all kind of bad. I’ve been advising my friends to be very careful (tyvek bunny suit, gloves and respirator, a full dust-down of the shop afterwards and hepa air circulator) since I’m planning to live another decade, maybe 2, I’ve gone back to using stuff like bog oak and ebony and got rid of my CF.
Awesome! Question on the scales: Would it be possible to epoxy the carbon fiber, micarta, and O1 all at the same time as sort of an "all at once" handle assembly and still get a good result or is that frowned upon? Thanks!
EffnShaShinko I tried that I my very first knife build and it worked but it was MESSY. I think assembling the scale parts first is a much better method
Question, is it possible to cold forge an edge bevel on a knife? I know for a scythe the edge is sharpened using a peening technique. Wondered if in a bind you could make a knife with a hard edge without fire? NB- this is not a question of optimal or best way to do something.
Walter: I've seen some videos where the blacksmith tempers very fast using a red hot piece of steel, sliding it over the spine at a certain speed, so that "blue" patina from quenching turns "beige". It looks like it requires some mastering, but it might be useful for larger blades, what do you think?
BTW, as to your sponsor... I really like the small quantity, squeeze bottle approach to packaging the epoxy: I will definitely be trying them out. The syringe type applicators are OK, but one can get in trouble pretty fast if one tries to be stingy, and save the unused portion for any length of time. I have thrown out a lot of gelled syringes. I will feel OK about storing those squeeze bottles in the freezer for the long term. R
Been missing your videos Walter, great to see one pop up in my feed! Nice simple video as well, a little different to what we've seen before. Did you actually end up bevelling the blade or did you just sharpen it at the end from flat?
nice. using the quench finish as the finish really does look great. good to know about the hazards of working with carbon fiber. and the effects of tempering temperatures (how that's not a simple linear thing).
Awesome Walter, thanks for making this, you are the king! Question: for this length of blade (and similar longer blades), does a horizontal quench tank make it less likely to warp? Meaning, being able to go edge first rather than tip first? Is it more likely to warp from the quench as it moves up the blade? Or does it not make much / any difference if you're quick, like you are? I ask just from curiosity of my own testing AND that I need to build a better quench tank soon.
I'd really just prefer to make one out of box section, like Walter has here - cheap & effective. I've never had a blade warp when quenching horizontally, but I am mostly in the 10-7inch mark - but they are often thin as well (kitchen knives). I have to do a 12" blade shortly and so need to build a new quench tank... want to future proof it!
I was under the impression that warp takes place during the quench and not during the tempering. I know that you can sometimes fix a warp during tempering, but it has to be done carefully as the metal is brittle. Would be interesting to know though.
always orient your horizontal quench tank to absolute NORTH. get a compass and face the blade tip NORTH, as the blade loses its magnetic field at heat treat temp. The warping takes place as the blade tries to pull NORTH as the magnetic field returns. CNC machine not required.
What is a decent thickness for general small knife making, if I were to order some 1084 for example? For now I’m not forging. I got 3/16 first and my first knife is pretty thick (full tang, it’s heavy duty so that’s nice, but it takes far too much grinding and waste). Would you say 1/8 is too thin? I’m thinking about getting some 1/8 because they’re out of stock in the size in between (should be 5/32 I guess, 0.156 or so).
RobSchneiderIsAStapler RobSchneiderIsAStapler all of this is very dependant on what the knife will be used for. In order from thin to thick you want roughly: 0.07-.125 for small EDC or kitchen knives (very slicy blades like an Opinel) 0.125-0.15 for general purpose knives like woodworking and meat Processing 0.15-.25 for heavier use blades like choppers and camp knives. Most of my blades are less than 10" long blades and I almost never go over 0.15". A lot of makers like to make thick and bulky "tank knives" but I feel that cutting ability is more important so I run mine thinner.
Adam Steffen I’m not sure how Walter does it, but I either hand sand it to 400 or so and stop for a satin/matte finish, or run it up to 1000 and then buff for a shiny finish
I was about to ask the same question. I think I've seen this software being used by Alec Steele as well, but I dont know what it is. Looks like something from MS.
First time I heard that tempering between 500 - 600 on high carbon steels makes them brittle. Could if you don't mind explain that some more? Thanks.
Basic summary: at that sort of temperature, you get cementite (pretty unwanted carbide) forming - hold it at the temp for long enough and you get too much cementite forming, and it will migrate to the boundaries of the steel grain and screw it all up. So it will still register as hard, but cementite has a terrible crystal structure which causes the brittleness.
Just to see if I fully understood it, that would mean then that tempering hardenable steels to anything above bronze to below blue will get that type of brittleness due to the changed crystalline structure. I personally have tempered to a purple for 50 min using my forge thinking that it would soften the very hardened steel and it does. Is there a specific time frame for when it turns to cementite. Is it possible to temper between 500 - 600f using other methods to avoid that formation in the steel? Would love to know. I used spring steel, maybe the alloys in it prevent it from happening? Just trying to get my head around doing it correctly as springs are tempered within those ranges as far as I know to make them springy. Hope you don't mind all those questions.
Work With Nature I'm no metallurgist - I'm a chemist, who did do some physical chemistry as well.
I think we already went past my level of knowledge!
No prob thanks for getting back to me. Maybe someone else knows. I think it would pose a very helpful question for a vid. Well Walter what you think? Anyone?
i don't think you can use different method of heating to avoid cementite phase,look up steel phase diagram
When you were warning about the danger of inhaling bad things I swear I heard you say “I have a respirator, and I’m a Jedi Master so it won’t effect me” lol. Great video. I love your style of teaching.
... Man, you covered a LOT of ground here.
Any newbies should watch, and re-watch this video. Thanks for another great video.
R
Mr. Sorrells looking at Your job is always great pleasure.
my pleasure
I love the look of the handle, after shaping it.
The carbon fiber really pops.
You were the first knife maker I ever watched and you have taught me almost everything I know about knife making and now I’m making and selling my own thanks to you! Your such an inspiration and have made thousands of people become bladesmiths like you
Thank you so much man!
Mr. Sorrels,
What is the longest machete that you have ever made. Also, what are the differences and draw backs to them?
I have been watching your videos for a while and enjoy them as well as the skill that you put into your work.
Johnny
4 lanyard tubes would be a touch lighter and can still be flared in an arbor press for a good mechanical fastener, especially with these type handle materials!! Wood cracks easily with flared pins...
Buen trabajo viejo, seguí con los vídeos. Saludos desde argentina city
So this Machete is also good for the Zombie Apocalypse
I saw you flexing that blade. You’re ready for Forged in Fire again.
Larry Bair they didn’t let him do the tempering on his own blade the last time. Not being argumentative, just stating.
the tempering didn't cause the break. failures happen.
What seasons he on man??
Is this your son who helped you in the katana quenching video??? HE'S AN ADULT NOW???! wow time flies.
You might want to look into the safety of handling CF dust. It appears to have some of the same properties as asbestos and that’s all kind of bad. I’ve been advising my friends to be very careful (tyvek bunny suit, gloves and respirator, a full dust-down of the shop afterwards and hepa air circulator) since I’m planning to live another decade, maybe 2, I’ve gone back to using stuff like bog oak and ebony and got rid of my CF.
Awesome! Question on the scales: Would it be possible to epoxy the carbon fiber, micarta, and O1 all at the same time as sort of an "all at once" handle assembly and still get a good result or is that frowned upon? Thanks!
EffnShaShinko I tried that I my very first knife build and it worked but it was MESSY. I think assembling the scale parts first is a much better method
Don’t do anything to seal the carbon fiber?
Question, is it possible to cold forge an edge bevel on a knife? I know for a scythe the edge is sharpened using a peening technique. Wondered if in a bind you could make a knife with a hard edge without fire? NB- this is not a question of optimal or best way to do something.
What 3d program do you use for the designs?
Great teaching/instructing style. Much appreciated. not that I'm ever likely to make a machete, but it's good to know the basics.
Best looking machete I’ve ever seen typical craftsmanship from Walter
Hi Mr. Sorrels, I'm considering making a camp chopper out of an old farriers rasp. What are your thoughts/feelings on that particular blade?
Walter: I've seen some videos where the blacksmith tempers very fast using a red hot piece of steel, sliding it over the spine at a certain speed, so that "blue" patina from quenching turns "beige". It looks like it requires some mastering, but it might be useful for larger blades, what do you think?
BTW, as to your sponsor... I really like the small quantity, squeeze bottle approach to packaging the epoxy: I will definitely be trying them out. The syringe type applicators are OK, but one can get in trouble pretty fast if one tries to be stingy, and save the unused portion for any length of time. I have thrown out a lot of gelled syringes.
I will feel OK about storing those squeeze bottles in the freezer for the long term.
R
Awesome looking blade. I learn something with every video I Watch.
Love the rustic scale finish on this machete. Not so much on other blades, but it surely works for this application.
Very sad - where did the denim shirts go...is this the REAL Walter?????
Ian Murphy 😆 I noticed that too.
Walter Sorrells, I learned alots from watching your video clip
Been missing your videos Walter, great to see one pop up in my feed! Nice simple video as well, a little different to what we've seen before. Did you actually end up bevelling the blade or did you just sharpen it at the end from flat?
Can you show the best way to drill holes for taper tangs without a mill, say, just using a drill press? Thanks
This is the hand tool I use most in my yard.... I think it would be great to have one that I made... thanks for the inspiration!
Soft and brittle at higher tempring temperature? What is this guy talking about?
Hmm Walter, how do you know
nice. using the quench finish as the finish really does look great. good to know about the hazards of working with carbon fiber. and the effects of tempering temperatures (how that's not a simple linear thing).
thx Walter...I always love your real world humor!........"Slather it on"......:)
the machete you slowed sharpening, is not the same machete as you showed as the finished product.
Who disliked this video??? I can’t believe someone disliking this video!.
Looks very similar to the shape and style used in Central America.
Just wanted to let you know that none of your new videos were popping up on my feed. They finally started showing up again
1.5mm thick? wow that is thin
Beautiful job!!
Very enjoyable. Thanks for taking the time to create these videos.
What computer program are you using to come up with your templates?
You are one funny dude. Love it when you talked about the fire show when your oil tempering caught fire. 👍
This is nice, but can you make a cable Damascus SoupFork for me?
Is anyone else here because they got a machete from the nite folk in rdr2
That is one sexy tool. Bob is a lucky guy. I love your videos, man!
Awesome Walter, thanks for making this, you are the king! Question: for this length of blade (and similar longer blades), does a horizontal quench tank make it less likely to warp? Meaning, being able to go edge first rather than tip first? Is it more likely to warp from the quench as it moves up the blade? Or does it not make much / any difference if you're quick, like you are? I ask just from curiosity of my own testing AND that I need to build a better quench tank soon.
Richard Harris Very good question, I’d like to know that too.
I'd really just prefer to make one out of box section, like Walter has here - cheap & effective. I've never had a blade warp when quenching horizontally, but I am mostly in the 10-7inch mark - but they are often thin as well (kitchen knives). I have to do a 12" blade shortly and so need to build a new quench tank... want to future proof it!
I was under the impression that warp takes place during the quench and not during the tempering. I know that you can sometimes fix a warp during tempering, but it has to be done carefully as the metal is brittle. Would be interesting to know though.
Croaker SAB yes I am asking about the quench here, not the tempering :)
always orient your horizontal quench tank to absolute NORTH. get a compass and face the blade tip NORTH, as the blade loses its magnetic field at heat treat temp. The warping takes place as the blade tries to pull NORTH as the magnetic field returns.
CNC machine not required.
Finally a goold old Walter Sorrels movie!
Sa parle trop !!!
Was peening the pins over really necessary if you were just going to grind them off? Seems pointless.
Adam Theriault they expand within the hole too
What is a decent thickness for general small knife making, if I were to order some 1084 for example? For now I’m not forging. I got 3/16 first and my first knife is pretty thick (full tang, it’s heavy duty so that’s nice, but it takes far too much grinding and waste). Would you say 1/8 is too thin? I’m thinking about getting some 1/8 because they’re out of stock in the size in between (should be 5/32 I guess, 0.156 or so).
RobSchneiderIsAStapler RobSchneiderIsAStapler all of this is very dependant on what the knife will be used for. In order from thin to thick you want roughly:
0.07-.125 for small EDC or kitchen knives (very slicy blades like an Opinel)
0.125-0.15 for general purpose knives like woodworking and meat Processing
0.15-.25 for heavier use blades like choppers and camp knives.
Most of my blades are less than 10" long blades and I almost never go over 0.15". A lot of makers like to make thick and bulky "tank knives" but I feel that cutting ability is more important so I run mine thinner.
I use 1/8” for most smaller knives, 4” blades and under. 3/16 is overkill for most applications
Show us more and tell us less.
what grit do you use for grinding? btw nicely done
Where can I buy one of these?
Curious how you finished the carbon fiber. Is it a simple oil or do you have to resin it?
Adam Steffen I’m not sure how Walter does it, but I either hand sand it to 400 or so and stop for a satin/matte finish, or run it up to 1000 and then buff for a shiny finish
U have list in forged in fire
Another great how to :)
Name of the Program hes using for designing ?
Fusion 360
Fantastic skill and talent ATB
Walter, what CAD software do you use?
I was about to ask the same question. I think I've seen this software being used by Alec Steele as well, but I dont know what it is. Looks like something from MS.
Great video!
Perfect!
first comment
sweet job
good luck
Second comment
What a beaut.