Roundtable Discussion with Phil Johnson and Jim Osman
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- Опубликовано: 20 май 2021
- Jim Osman and Phil Johnson join Justin Peters for a roundtable discussion on the Prophetic Standard Statement, Modern Prophets, How God Speaks/Doesn't Speak, God Doesn't Whisper, and more.
“If you can’t tell Todd Bentley is a false prophet...you shouldn’t be allowed out of the house without adult supervision “ 😂😂😂😂👏👏👏 Justin Peters that’s just pure class
@@joshockey7447 Jo, Todd Bentley was raging about kicking old ladies in the face with his biker boot. Sometimes sarcasm is warranted. The Apostle Paul used it himself on several occasions. I do not often use it - but if there was ever an occasion that warrants it, this is.
@@JustinPetersMin I have never been slightly interested in what Todd Bentley brings to the table. Some believers are drawn to the novelty of the “unlikely” that God chooses to confound the “wise” with, but I was not one. Until it was published and he publicly displayed his infidelity and continued in it, he occupied the position of any other ministry who was trying to share the gospel, so I never heard him boasting about kicking old women in the face, but once he gave himself over to work iniquity, he became someone to warn others to stay away from. I understand he has a support system that endorses that behavior - the participants of which may have been sound at one time, but have chosen to leave the realm of godly judgment skills for some reason. Paul spoke of various types of apostates, not with sarcasm that I know of but certainly naming them, others he mentioned with weeping. The only scripture I can think of you might be referring to as justification for sarcasm may the one about “going all the way and cutting their private part off - not mere circumcision. Maybe that’s what your talking about I’m not sure. With regard to professing believers who have a form of godliness denying the power thereof, he simply instructed “from such turn away.” Some who are not cessationists might be confident regarding who they think those would be. Nevertheless, in my opinion, sarcasm was not the Apostle’s habit and such wit does little for the cause of truth. May the Lord bless us all in our pursuit to know Him and represent Him in truth. He says that If we want to do His will, we’ll know it. Thank you for responding to my comment. I seriously consider what you have to say.
@@joshockey7447 He absolutely did brag about kicking an elderly woman in the face. with his "biker boot" and even claimed that God told him to do so. I have it on video. I was at a meeting in which he kicked man with stage 4 colon cancer in the stomach. I witnessed that live. He was an alcoholic and was having an adulteress affair with a woman (Jessa) on his staff. ALL of this was going on right under the noses (literally) of some of the biggest names in the prophetic movement. These false prophets could not see what was happening literally under their very noses. They even prophesied over him during all of this and in so doing exposed themselves to be just as much of a false prophet as he.
I used to warn people that told me they were going to Bentley meetings. They would get so furious. This was about 5 years ago. One time about 15 people in the church came against me for warning people. Never judge the response people give you as success or failure. Remember how Steven was treated when he preached the truth? They stoned him.
Todd Bentley is demon possessed. V should do some good deeds to inf those demon slayer esp false self proclaimed apostle Kathryn Krick to cast it out or mayb Isaiah saldivar, vlad sachuk or Daniel Adams & a bunch of jokers etc
😂😂😂😂
I really thank God for you my fellow brethren in the Lord Jesus Christ for Holding up the Light of God...I really do see you brethren as gifts to the body as stated in Ephesians....God Bless You!!
I'm 4 chapters in on Jim Osman's book "God Doesn't Whisper" and it is awesome. Solid. Thank you.
I wanted to get that book!
"My sheep hear my voice" If you don't hear his voice how can you be his sheep? The bible doesn't say my sheep read my book.
This video should be retitled 'A roundtable discussion with dull religious spirits.'
@@peace2u947 God has recorded His voice in the Bible for us to use for all things. And scripture says that Jesus is the final mouthpiece, and the Canon is closed. There’s no way to work around what God has commanded in His Word, your ears may itch for signs and wonders, but it is not God who whispers to you. Gods Word is sufficient and the final authority. And any man that should seek to add to His scriptures will be damned. That should weigh very very heavy on your heart as you claim to “hear” God talking to you.
@@jaquirox6579 :"My yoke is easy and my burden is light" It sounds to me like something weighing heavy on your heart is a heavy burden inflicted from a religious mentality. God most certainly does whisper but it never contradicts his word it is like a harmonic strum to the tune of a beautiful singing voice. The two are in unison,not competing in any form.
We are made in God's image, we speak with vocal chords and so does our God. if God did not whisper then we certainly would not have the ability to whisper.
"Then i heard the voice of the Lord" Isaiah verse
Jesus walked and talked with Adam and Eve in the garden.
A christian without the christian practice of praying in tongues or coming into the truths of deliverance really lives below their calling as a follower of Christ. Justin Peters is heavily influenced from a driving religious spirit rooted in offence. His followers would be wise to reassess, repent, rebuke and unfollow!
@@peace2u947 Interesting response. You have ad hominemed, and attempted to change the subject drastically, without addressing anything of the topic at hand.
I don’t think this man’s comment is an appropriate place for you to try to pedal your charismatic heresy. I’m sure he would prefer for people responding to his post, to actually be talking about his inquiries.
If you are a legitimate Bible believing Christian, you submit and bend the knee 100% to Gods words, and His commands of us. Anything short of that, any twisting according to how you feel, or what you think you have experienced, is creating a false god, in your own image. Scripture is clear on the topic of prophesy, and I compel you to repent before God, for your sins against Him.
Also noteworthy, your attempt at the ad hominem and severely projecting onto me… failed miserably. And I find it hilarious that you types, always seem to say something like that. But your guesses and assumptions of where I come from are incorrect. So maybe give that Magic 8-Ball another shake.
“Evil and adulterous is a generation that seeks signs and wonders.”
Thank you for sharing. God bless you
I'm at the point that, the circus having gone on this long, this is on those congregations. They have itching ears and heap up teachers who give them warm fuzzies and "prophesy" straight from the optimist club. In a country run by marketing, if there's a customer base available, somebody will fill it.
What you've said reminds me of 2 Timothy 4:3-4, where we are warned by the apostle Paul that the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but after their own lusts they will raise up for themselves teachers, having itching ears and they will turn their ears away from the Truth and will turn to fables.
We have alot of false prophets in Nigeria and all over Africa pls God help us.
@@Seraphina_Elihu Found you again scrolling comments haha! I agree! :( it will be a scary day for the false teachers.
@@Seraphina_Elihu lol
You're absolutely right and as I read what you had to say, one particular passage that came to me was 2 Peter 2:1-2, where the apostle Peter warns that as there were false prophets who rose up among the people, so will there be false teachers among you who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them and bringing swift destruction on themselves and many will follow their pernicious ways, because of whom the Way of Truth will be blasphemed.
Even here in Zambia😔😔
@@ColonelHoganStalag13 No U.S or any other country teaching to be a demons . They are breeding their own .
My father was a charismatic pastor growing up, and now I'm the only one in my family who has left this movement and sought to know God only through His Word rather than chasing after signs and wonders. I'm incredibly grateful for Justin Peters and the other ministers and teachers who are willing to stand up to this seductive deception of the charismatic/full gospel/NAR movements.
It seems every time one of their "movement" names gets enough bad press to cut down on their financial donations, they come up with a new way to style themselves and sell the same old lies. There really is nothing new under the sun.
This was great to hear, Thanks gentleman
This was so helpful, thank you all. It felt very relaxed and was done at such a conversational pace that allowed for a lot of note taking and a few “aha” moments. More conversations around the table like these would be immensely helpful. Very well done- a resource I will be recommending to those with questions.
Hi Michaela - do you have a link or the title of his sermon by chance?
@@JustinPetersMin Michaela was talking about how helpful THIS video was. :) she suggested MORE videos like this one. With you and others around the table like this. Very helpful and informative things in this video! 🙏🏻👍🏻
@@LynneMadison0731 Oops - sorry! I just realized I replied to the wrong comment. Thank you for the heads up and thank you, Michaela, for your kind words of encouragement. Blessings to you both! :)
Justin, like Alan the polite leader always responds to the beautiful people
Justin I can honestly say that you evangelise to the charismatics and Pentecostals helping them to come out of that deception. I’m so thankful to the Lord for your service and faithfulness. Jim I am growing from your books that have helped to uproot the lies and plant truth. True pastoral teacher helping the Saints to grow in Grace. Phil sincerely appreciate your straight up no nonsense approach with wisdom and discernment. Praise the Lord Jesus Christ
Thank you so much for your kind words of encouragement, Jules. Much appreciated. Blessings to you and your family :)
AMEN 🙏 GUYS ,great talk , I have learned so much. I was brought up a Pentecostal. There you go, I HAVE NEVER HEARD MOST OF WHAT YOU TEACH EVER .!!😢❤
I so appreciate what you said about Wayne Grudem, because I was led astray by the OPC in both Wheaton and Crystal Lake. illinois about him as well as Tim Keller and John Piper when I was a new Christian. And I so appreciate Jim Osnan's conviction: I never heard such any such conviction in the spineless and man-pleasing OPC in either Crystal Lake or Wheaton, Illinois
Dang my internet went off when this was about to start😭just going to watch it now and its 2:30am I'm going to watch it till the end because I was excited to experience this live,love you justin,Jim and Phil in all you do for christ👏✝️❤
I wish I could have watched this live! But I will definitely be checking this out later!!! Thank you to all three of you for taking care of the body of believers. You three are true shepherds!!!
Brilliant. Excellent discussion. Thank you so much 🙏
Thank you Justin for doing what you do!
3 top notch Biblical teachers alive today. Praise and glory to God for the work they do! I really appreciate their humility and encouragement each time they speak
I not that familiar with Phil Johnson or the other Gentleman to Justin Peter's right, but I watch many of Justin's videos. He's a great Apologetic and very learned Bible scholar. I don't agree with every single thing ( non-salvation issues) he has spoke about but I would recommend Justin's videos to anyone. Very grateful for the way he calls out these false visits to Heaven, dreams , visions, people calling themselves prophets ( all rampant among the "Christian" church today). Very grateful for this man's ministry. Thanks Mr. Peters. I have learned a lot from you. God bless your ministry
Great discussion Gentlemen!
I love this sound biblical teaching on Prophets.
Thanks for sharing 😊
The deceived and the deceiving are often locked in a deadly embrace, which takes not the best, heartfelt words offered with the best of intensions by the most loving brothers and sisters in the Lord, but requires the supernatural intervention of God to shake such people from their death grips they have on their false and heretical doctrines. Pray for such interventions by our most holy, gracious, and merciful Father in heaven. Maranatha!
I never want Phil Johnson to grade my work. The man doesn't miss a thing
@SuperEmotionEngine Why would you feel the need to point out a persons faults?
@@schmuelbuckman9740 Because it shows Phil Johnson's humility and honesty with himself and with others
As someone who was dragged (quite against my will) to charismatic meetings night after night in the 70's as a child, I can say one thing I know for certain:
Charismatics CANNOT call a single person who "prophesies" from the Lord a false prophet. If they do, they indict themselves. Their concept of "the Spirit of God" moving or speaking is whatever imaginative thought that comes across their minds while thinking about anything or nothing at all. There ARE no rules. That's what God is to them: no rules. Therefore they cannot hold any one person's feet to the fire or they all go under. When I finally faced what I was dragged through back then, and read the Bible for the first time in my life at age 55, I realized something rather startling: the charismatic movement believes Satan is God.
Now, you'll not catch one of them ever admitting that or co-signing it. But without pointing it out that bluntly, just start with that concept, and all the rest of it falls into place. That's why God tells lies....or their god does.
Love your channel justin , subbed!!!!!
God has allowed the sin of pride to be on full display. And it is a teachable moment for all of us, one not to be missed.
Yes, their prophecies have been shown to be false, and yes, they have been revealed as false prophets (as well as false teachers), but God has also revealed their stiff-necked pride. I am just as prone to have such pride in myself and this is an opportunity for me to examine myself and ask the Holy Spirit how stiff-necked I am.
In what areas am I as unteachable as these prophets are? What sorts of things do I fiercely cling to instead of Jesus? Am I truly glorifying Christ or myself?
As I grow in sanctification, I am seeing just how insidious sin is. I am grateful to God for Justin Peters, Phil Johnson, Jim Osman, Chris Roseboro, Stephen Kozar, John MacArthur, and many many others present and in times past for their discernment and teaching. I am also thankful to God for revealing sin in such a clear and discernable way.
Looking forward to seeing this thank you Justin praying for you
Hey Valerie! Nice to see you here.💙 I am from the live stream with Spencer Smith 😊 I love Justin Peters as well 👍🏻
Mr Peters I can imagine you are a busy man, but I really need your help.! I've watched you for about 11/2 years now on a couple of these devices. Every since my family talked me to getting on the internet and I prayed about it for a long long time. After all the different ministers, preacher's, and going to almost all the different denominations/churches. Watching all these flat out lier's on TV for years and never gaining much but disbelief or besides how to study the word.! Because the more I studied and prayed the more desperately I needed the Lord!! Especially with all the confusion.With a bad up bringing and at 31 my health went bad and fast. It all effected me, my wife, and children. I need help finding like minded believers in a church family!! My heart/Spirit craves the fellowship I once thought I had. That's until I learned more of the word. Then it became totally hard to go to all the fake people and false preaching churches.!! Is there an email where I can reach out to you?? I really would appreciate it if you could lead me with a suggestion!!.. Also your prayers about it would be a blessing.!!. Sincerely your brother in Christ Brian Sr.
You can reach him Justin @justinpeters.org
If you give him your mail address he will send you 8 hours of teaching on context proving these are wolves.
@@sundelong2727 Thanks! I really don't need nothing to prove there are wolves. I've experienced it myself first hand.!!.
Hey Brian, I’m saying a prayer for you.
May I also encourage you? You are seeking, you know your need already. And the Lord says he will be found by those who diligently seek him, so I believe he’s got you - just keep on and don’t lose heart.
Prov 8:17. Deut 4:29. Luke11:9-10. Jer 29:13. And Matt 11:28-30 promises us rest.
Can’t say I knew all those by heart, but I remembered the truth and googled and found them for you. And thank you because I encouraged myself in there too.
God bless you, brother. I’m sure you’ll find a church family where truth is taught. Maybe online. If covid has taught me nothing else, it’s that fellowship is possible online! thank God for good teaching on the net.
@@bella-bee your advice to Brian is very beneficial but you need encourage him to be participating in the local church .
The reason European churches are destroying cause they were spectators instead of participator .
Last year when my church closed I was worshipped through online but it never the same .
My church has been open since last May and every Sunday people all over the different cities come worship together . I realize that participating worship in person is truly blessing.
If you go to Justin Peters' website, he does have a "church finder" that can help you find the nearest churches where a Master's Seminary graduate is teaching. He would probably give you similar advice as in his Marks of a church message on RUclips, which is to find the best church you can. That may involve a distance to travel, then go as frequently as you can and explain your situation to the elders there.
The hosts of The Remnant Radio program did a New Years Eve marathon going over the prophecies that were supposed to be for 2020, and they pointed to all of the falsehoods. It was a pretty good display of continuationists putting the feet of the “prophets” to the fire (and the only one I know of).
Great to see you all sitting together. Excellent presentation. Thank you.
What a joy to be amongst true preachers of the word of God....thoughrouly enjoyed this, from a lone voice crying in the wilderness of London England!!!
Hey buddy,
I was just trying to find a spot to send you a message, , so this is for justin,
I am so happy that I came across your channel,
People need better guidance.
Thank you so much for your work on this subject. The NAR movement is disgraceful and it's tearing apart families, mine included. It most certainly includes "doctrine of demons".
Sorry to hear about your family...😢🙏🏻. Mine too. Prayers for reconciliation in your family.
I pray that the Lord will bless you and your family!! I totally understand how it can rip apart a lot. I've had a lot of health issues and years ago I watched many of these lier's on TV day and night. I sent offerings, etc tried all that I found in scripture. When I asked why God wouldn't heal me it always my faith wasn't enough. Even though it only takes a mustard seed. I desperately needed healing!! It effected me my wife and definitely our children.! Still today one of our boy's says dad I told you that I would believe if God would heal you I would believe.! I was 31 and my wife and children missed a lot of normalcy from me and what I couldn't do no more etc..It took me some time to realize that I would never be healed physically. Emotionally, Mentally and Spiritually I'm better than ever!! I haven't had a home church or church family since.! I miss Fellowship with like minded people. Matter fact my spirit needs fellowship. Without my relationship with Christ I would've never made it this far. Although death tries to convince me from time to time that Christ doesn't care or love me or isn't real since I wasn't healed etc
Define "right relationship with God" That is my question to these NAR leaders
Thank you for being the voices of wisdom and sanity.
I so appreciate all your ministries and grateful for you introducing me to Jim. His book God Doesn’t Whisper was a game changer for me. I was in hyper charismatic churches for decades and even in full time ‘prophetic’ ministry (Yes, I was a false prophet!), and that book was like a slam dunk/ mic drop in the face of charismatic theology! Looking forward to getting a copy of Truth Or Territory.
Praise the Lord indeed.
Same for me it’s like I’m finally eating good bread and drinking fresh clean water. Jim’s books have been a game changer for me too. I’ve repented of my false prophecies. His mercy and grace is glorious
Acts 5:12 Now many signs and wonders were *regularly* done among the people *by* *the* *hands* *of* *the* *apostles* .
This is a good verse to cite when someone says the church today should mimic the church in Acts. Miracles were occurring on a regular basis but only by the hands of the apostles. Miracles and signs and wonders were not being performed by random believers.
I just read this passage this morning. I had never noticed this until this morning.
@@powersteamintl5986 Interesting isn't it? Also I never paid much attention to the full title of the book "The Acts of the Apostles" not "The Acts of the first Church".
@@powersteamintl5986 there are a couple more that specifically say it was at the hands of the apostles btw. 2:43, 14:3, and the most incredible one imo is 19:11
@@Seraphina_Elihu the "works" of the believer Jesus said would be greater than his because of the scope of the impact that believers were going to be inevitably greater that the personal ministry of Christ during his time on earth (which is not saying that what Christ accomplished is lesser because it's actually everything). To put it another way, Christs personal ministry was local to his region whereas the churches ministry is global (albeit because of Christ). I believe this is why Christ said in John 16:7,8 it is for your benefit that I leave you so the helper will come. Christ was truly God and truly man. He had physical bodily limitations because of his manhood whereas the Holy Spirit does not.
Also I believe Christ was referring to the greater works of proclaiming the gospel which is what leads to the eternal salvation of a soul. Physical healing is of some benefit obviously but if a person is physically healed by some miracle but they are not regenerated by the Holy Spirit through the proclamation of the gospel then it is in vain.
I don't dispute that God can carry out miracles through anyone at anytime. I am just pointing out that Acts only (which means it's not "my interpretation" but what the word says) records the miracles God was doing through people were a) being done exclusively at the hands of the apostles (Acts 2:43, 5:12) or men appointed by the apostles and b) were done with regularity (5:12). Have you wondered why God does miracles through his people? This led me to Exodus 4. God did miracles through Moses in order to validate to other men that Moses was truly speaking on behalf of God. This is the same reason for the apostles. The performed signs and wonders so that the hearers would know the message they were proclaiming (the gospel of Jesus Christ) was truly divine.
The conclusion is that while a believer can believe God can and will do miracles (of which the regeneration of a person dead in their sins is the greatest) there is no more need for "sign" gifts because a believer does not need to be validated as speaking on behalf of God since His divinely inspired word (written by the apostles and the prophets) is all we need to know what truth is (John 17:17). Wow that was longer than I anticipated it to be. Hope that helps answer the question you had. If it didn't let me know. Thanks!
@@Seraphina_Elihu No, not of the type that are recorded in scripture (raising from the dead, blind people seeing, lame walking, transporting from one place to another instantly etc). The whole "lower back pain" and "leg lengthening" healing is fake in my experience as it's almost always being performed in a specific environment (lots of music and a strong appeal to emotions drumming up people into fanaticism).
Again, I don't deny that real miracles (events that defy natural law) are happening as I have heard stories which I believe to be true but I am healthily skeptical of the false signs and wonders that are meant to deceive even the elect (as you already pointed out in 2 Thess). If you remember the purpose of signs and wonders (to validate the messenger) you can also begin to understand why false teachers feel the need to demonstrate miracles.....so that they will be validated to the listener and can gain credibility for their false teaching. So there is incentive in these last days for the false teacher to feel the need for miracles to be happening so that people will take them seriously. I've been fooled before and now I hope and pray that I would stay faithful to the scriptures and what Christ teaches us through them to help open the eyes of any who are deceived by those ravenous wolves.
Brilliant! Why has no one called Copeland out? No accountability. Statement is only useful when it's put into practice and doesn't have multiple loopholes.
I am embarassed to say that Copeland was my go-to preacher
@@GioTummy3463 😁 "I think a lot of people would relate to what you admitted. I grew up listening to him as a child, etc. Not now!!" 👍😎
I am not a charismatic, and I am deeply disturbed by Dr. Michael Brown and all those he endorses, but when Phil Johnson said that people who are lame or blind are not healed today, I think about the ministry of Faith Comes by Hearing. Morgan Jackson shares accounts of those reached through his ministry that completely contradict that claim.
I would councel, we can not be lax in our discernment, and need to question much. In this regard, it very well may be God's sovereign Will to heal the people discussed by Mr Jackson, but what is the proof he provides? What is the credible medical evidence? If in a very remote village, were there eye-witnesses? How many and who are they? Is it just Mr Jackson claiming this? These questions must be sufficiently answered if we are to even begin to scratch the surface of his claims.
@@Mary_Kraensel - hello, there are several episodes here at RUclips that Mr. Jackson has done on John Ankerberg's show. Just search "John Ankerberg, God's Word to the World." His ministry is the largest provider of audio Bibles in the world. I recommend watching some of those episodes. Almost all of them recount miracles, some more than others. It's an amazing ministry. As for medical evidences from another source, I'd point to Dr. Craig Keener's two-volume work on miracles, but that is expensive. However, Keener is one of many speakers in the video "Jesus of Testimony" here at RUclips. I recommend all of it, though I was disappointed to see Dr. Michael Brown appear in it briefly. However, he discusses the Hebrew texts and Biblical prophecy, not the wacky stuff that goes on today. As for healing, there is an interview in that video of an ex-policeman, Greg Spencer, who was healed of blindness. He provides all of the medical documentation. In the same video, Dr. Keener discusses different medical miracles that he lists in his books on miracles. (Dr. Keener discusses research into miracles around the 1:09:07 minute mark. After he finishes, just before the 1:13:00 minute mark, Greg Spencer begins his testimony of being healed of blindness and provides all the medical evidence. Here's the link to the video: ruclips.net/video/JAMODGaPRE8/видео.html ). Cessationists don't discount healing miracles, but they are quite skeptical of them to the point where any reports of them are typically disbelieved without extensive evidence. Fortunately, in third world countries unaffected by David Hume and secular atheists, and even Cessationists, miracles abound.
@@FriendOfChrist Hearsay is not admissible in a court. Over 5 billion people in the world own a cell phone. It shouldn't be that difficult to provide evidence if such an event indeed did happen. To date, there's never been a piece of evidence provided. Hearsay is not evidence. If someone was healed, it certainly wasn't due to Benny Hinn blowing on them. There's no question that God is the great physician, and all things are possible through him, but what Charasma is doing has nothing to do with God.
@@apostasiaelegcho5612 - I take it you didn't read what I wrote to Mary. You should keep Proverbs 18:13 in mind: He who answers a matter before he hears it, It is folly and shame to him." You certainly haven't looked at the volumes of evidence -- including pre and post MRI's, x-rays, and various other medical records provided by Dr. Craig Keener in his two volume work on miracles -- or you wouldn't have written what you did. Keener covers some of those documented miracles in the program I pointed Mary to, "Jesus of Testimony." I'll point you to it as well. However, that doesn't mean you'll view it. Were you aware that 70% of doctors believe in miracles? And that a large percentage of them state they have witnessed them in their practice? I often grieve that so many people have such a narrow view of God. Perhaps those people should move their gaze from God's feet. He might be quite a bit bigger than people think. But, as I said, I am not a charismatic and do not defend Michael Brown or all of the wacky antics that he endorses. However, I think that the God who parted the Red Sea and rose Jesus from the dead, is the same yesterday, today, and forever. (As scripture says.) There are no more apostles, but that does not mean there are no more genuine miracles, signs, and wonders. For example, these men dismiss the visions of Muslims in other countries who have seen Christ and have become Christians as a result. I do not dismiss their testimonies and changed lives. I think the majority of them are authentic. I think to deny these things is to deny a mighty move of God that brings Him great glory.
@@FriendOfChrist I did read your statement. I didn't write my reply for the purpose of quarreling with you. I watched an excerpt of the video you referred and did not see any evidence. I work in the field of forensics, so I'm well acquainted with what constitutes evidence. I don't discount the possiblity of miracles occurring, as I mentioned that all things are possible through God. I simply haven't seen any evidence for a miracle occuring in the 50 years I've been on earth. I'm a Christian. I'm also a skeptic. I required evidence before I became a Christian. I continue to require evidence for all things.
In conclusion, it's important to understand the distinction between God granting miracles and faith healers. The argument for cessation is directly relating to faith healers. I don't believe anyone is contesting the ability of God to grant miracles. What Benny Hinn does is most definitely a fraudulent activity for the purpose to gain wealth. There are a vast amount of Benny Hinn's who all gravitate towards the charasmatic movement, for a very good reason. The apostasy is among us, right now.
I also find it interesting that there is no current information available online for Greg Spencer from Roseburg, Oregon. Virtually all that exists is three articles from 2013-2016 which are all recycled articles. No Facebook, no current testimony, no current article. For such a large miracle to have taken place and no one has talked about it since that video was produced is quite interesting to me. If I recieved a miracle like he did, you wouldn't be able to shut me up about it. Men are inherently evil, which is why I'm a truth seeker, and rarely take man's word about anything.
A good discussion. I also liked Phil Johnson's use of the expression "Satanic tom-foolery."
I read "Satanic tomfoolery" in Phil's voice 😄
False prophecy is so clearly addressed in the Bible. Sign gifts don’t seem to be so clear. I don’t see anyone growing new arms and legs, but I have friends that believe in this. I have friends that believe it’s a matter of faith, but doesn’t that faith come from our Lord?
Well, any such healing occurs when it is God's sovereign Will to do so, and not because of anything Man does.
On the subject of apostleship and signs being a credibility test for them, am I correct in thinking that the early church apostles were all Jews? And is there anything in that if I am correct? In the sense that the Jewish people were gods chosen nation through which the gospel would come to the world, and Christ himself gave to the church these gifts of the apostles and the prophets etc.
Wonderful round-table discussion from leading theologians. Thank you. If I may, I'd say they can't solve a problem that doesn't exist, meaning them trying to hold themselves accountable. The real problem is that canon is closed and God isn't speaking to them. Even with all these standards they're right back where they started - blasphemy.
M P, your statement is clear as mud.
@@timcarlG Well if you took the time to think about it and perhaps just asked politely what I meant, I would say this: what I mean is them creating standards won't help. The root problem is that God isn't speaking to them in the first place. They're assuming God is speaking to them and their whole document is based on a severely faulty and blasphemous premise.
Thank you gentlemen.
Couldn't agree more with your critique of this nonsense statement.👏
Thank You Paster Peters for bettering my life with your teachings
Amen
Heeejjj Justiiinn Congrats for reaching 100k!! ❤❤❤❤
Kris Vallotton and Patricia King have now signed the Prophetic Standards Statement
Today in my bible study I read in Jeremia 28 how god killed the prophet whoclaimed to speak in the name of the lord but wasn't sent to do so. I wonder, what is different today so god doesn't punish all the false prophets?
Their day is coming. Matt 7.
Love every second. Can't get enough. Vermont is a very barren state. Gospel light is being snuffed as soon as it is lit. Tough sledding here. I thank God for Justin
🙏🙏 "God bless you!"
If God as put it into your heart to be a missionary or a pastor. Tell no one. So if someone comes along and tells you that God as laid it into their heart that the Lord as revealed to me that you are to go in to missionary field then you'll know it's of God 🙏
❤️🙏🏻
Christianity today is so fragmented and looney I can't even bring myself to go to any church any more. I stay home and watch guys like this.
May I encourage you to find a small group of Christians that meet in a home so you can be taught and share in worship and fellowship. Remember the words of Paul, "Forsake not the assembling of yourselves together." Christians need other Christians, especially for the times we are entering. -pastor
I feel like you do. It is hard to find a church that preaches the Word. Remember Christ died for His Church. Shed His precious blood for it. Don’t worry and keep looking. If you do you could just just listen to John MacArthur and a wonderful teacher you can do even with friends is Les Feldick and his
ministry is Thru The Bible I would be honored to study with you. My name is Glenda and I’m in the Atlanta area. God bless you. Maybe email ?
I totally agree with you and have been at that point for a long time. Although the fellowship is missing in my life!! We need to fellowship but it's hard to do when you can't find a church that's not teaching falsely etc in your area..!! I pray people like us find the correct place to be able to fellowship.!
I looked in my city for over 3 years straight, for a church to bring my family to. You have to try. And you’ll find a lot of bad ones. But just check them off the list, and try another. Grace to You website also has a helpful church finder. Or you can call them. But we have to obey Gods commands. And church is one of them. But God wouldn’t command u to do something impossible.
@@kittyhawk8414 So are you Pastor Kitty Hawk? 😂
Ya I noticed the chat ended right before it started
Reminds me of the corrupt ruling party in my country engaging in self-policing. Same old foxes in charge of the hen-house.
This is awesome. Thank you for addressing this!
I thank God for you , bold n faithful preachers in Christ Jesus, Justin, Phil n Jim. God bless n keep you guys mightily n I pray that God keep using you guys to wake every true n trusting believers to the preaching of false teachers. After listening to you brother Justin for 6 months, you fully affirmed my suspicion about some preachers (those whom u called out) n their teachings to be false prophets. Praise God.
I discovered Justin last year and a few months of Justin’s ministry has dealt with two decades of deception for me. I’m so thankful and relieved
@@JulietManx Amen! God is so good ! For me, sis. it was 6 years of receiving wrong teaching ! Hallelujah. We are set free by Lord who is eternally faithful n true! He knows who are following Him in spirit n truth! Praise God.
Praise the Lord x
The John 3:16 in what I'd call the satanic bible of the charismatics would be "Don't throw the baby out with the bath water." That's why they won't turn their backs on their prophets (also spelled "profits") or their faith healers. As long as they believe at least one person got healed or one prophecy came true all the rest of it is forgiveable.
Thank you for the biblically sound response much appreciated. This round table meeting was really helpful for me as I have only recently become cessationist as I seek to become more reformed to His Word.
This was excellent! Dream team 😀
Thank you for this discussion and video of it. Very good words here. I learned much!!!
Exceptional as always Thankyou for your faithfulness gentlemen
What lots of people (even pastors) don't (yet) understand.
God created us according to His own image and likeness. Godly.
Mankind/the first Adam fell. The image of God in man got lost. That's why there is all this predicament on earth (selfishness, greed, lust, wars, sicknesses, death, etc).
We are all born into that mess.
For the fall of man a perfect atoning sacrifice had to be made.... that is what God did in Christ.
With His own once and for all perefect sacrifice, He paid the debt for the fall of man for us, so we can be indwelled by His Spirit again and finally receive the divine life of the ages back, the first Adam let got of in the fall of man. An amazing act of grace and love by our creator.
That is what you see happening in Christ's first disciples. They too healed all and walked in unselfish love.
And yes.... that is still avaible today. The holy blood is in place, the Holy Spirit is here to give us understanding, power and transform us back to origin.
Not to be debated about, but to be embraced and be-come.
So: The Kingdom of God already came. Through Christ, in Spiritform, in those that understand.
Hence the divine healing miracles we experience.
God manifested in Christ to give us back the divine life mankind lost in the fall of Adam.
Christ, the exact image of the invisible God.
The image we were created after in Gen 1.
The image we lost in the fall of man.
The image that can be freely restored by Christ's blood and Holy Spirit working IN us.
What a plan. What a solution. What a love. What a God. Jesus is amazing.
It is the ultimate conclusion of the word and plan of God. God came full circle.
He Himself stooped down from glory to restore us back to original created value: Christlikeness. Walking in divine healing power and unselfish love.
Jesus, born of the Spirit of God, filled with the spirit of God. The "Son" of God, the incarnated word, God in the flesh.
For three years He healed all, raised the dead, casted out demons, controlled nature, spoke pure divine truth.
He said:
"Follow Me. If you see Me, you see the Father. The Father and I are one. The glory I have IN My Father, I give to you. It pleases the Father to give you His Kingdom/Holy Spirit/divine nature. I will send Holy Spirit, the same as Me, He will be IN you, guide you into truth and give you explosive power. The same miracles i do, you will do too, because you will understand that the Father is IN Me and I am IN you. Freely I give you My Kingdom/Holy Spirit/divine nature, heal the sick, raise the dead, cast out demons, freely I give, freely share" Etc, etc, etc.
I have experienced thousands of beautifull healing miracles through the power of Holy Spirit IN me already. Broken bones, cancers, covid, all kinds of infirmities healed in seconds. Demons manifesting and casted out by a simple "get out, in Jesus name".
Jesus. De name above all names. In Him all power and wisdom is sourced and.... He calls us one with Him. God in man and man in God again. C'mon Jesus!!
So.... again: God stooped down IN Christ to restore us back to Gen 1:27 were He said: "Let us make man according to our image and likeness and let them have authority.....": walk as Christ.
Christ, the exact image of the invisible God. The image we were created after and being restored to by His atoning blood for the fall of man and indwelling Holy Spirit.
You are free to receive this original divine life of the ages by Holy Spirit of Christ/God. Ask Him to guide you into truth. Read the Gospel of John and fall in love with your creator.
You are not made for the fall of man and its effects, but for the image/glory of God and to walk like Christ. Holy Spirit is the guide and transforming power that will get you there. Amazing grace.
A big leap in faith can be made when we start realizing we are already IN Christ, IN the last Adam.
Free from the fall! Loved! Growing into awareness of our new (yet old) godly identity. Changing by Holy Spirit. The most fullfilled life ever.
Paul healed all on Malta. He understood and wrote:
"As in the first Adam ALL died (lost the divine nature), so also ALL were made alive IN Christ to walk in Zoë (= divine life) again".
"IN Christ (the last Adam) we are co-cruisified (dead to the fall and its effects), co-raised (justified/made righteousness, holy, blameless, above reproach), co-seated (one with Him)"
"The fullness of deity dwells in Christ and YOU HAVE BEEN MADE COMPLETE IN HIM, who is the head of every principality and power".
So.... thank you Jesus! Thank you for redeeming me from the fall of man. Thank you for your Holy Spirit that makes this new (yet old) divine life come alive in me. You are amazing!
In the shadow of Peter the sick healed... He understood too and wrote:
"By Gods power (Holy Spirit) and knowing Christ, we have become partakers of the divine nature and have escaped the fall of man".
The divine life of the ages has been returned to us by Jesus once and for all perfect atoning sacrifice for the debt of the fall of man and His indwelling Holy Spirit in us. Jesus/God is amazing!!!
Ask Him to give you revelation and change you to the way it was before the fall of man: Christlikeness.
He will do so. For it is written: "the Spirit brings forth after His own kind".
"I have come to give you Zoë (divine life) in abundance...."
Sadly, this makes no sense to those who affirm the Prophetic Standard Statement, and/or todays modern/false prophets b/c
*unless one is indwelt with the Holy Spirit, the truth of scripture will be not be profitable, or adequate* [2 Tim 3 v16-17].
Excellent video gentlemen.
A message from "GOD" for Bob would be personal, predictive, prophecy and that is ridiculously dangerous.
God bless you Brothers in Christ
This is my type of fun on a Friday night! Excellent job, gents. Sola Scriptura.
Surely a prophetic oversight committee goes against the purpose of prophesy? A word from God versus a word from a committee?
Good point. This statement cannot have been crafted for the charismatics themselves, but either for gullible followers or for critics.
Is the Jerimiah Johnson signer Phil's son Jerimiah or another one?
Awesome!!!!!!!!!!
Thanks watchdog :)
Excellent teaching. 3 of my favourite saints.
Amen
I got bumped off chat for some reason were there issues. Great interview. It disappeared. Anyways watching replay. RUclips acting weird lately God bless
@We Stankin! okay. Thanks.
They believe that those who have the gift of prophecy need room to “grow into” their gift. So accuracy is often missed in that growth process. However if you trace that logic it makes God the giver of the gift unable to give and adequate gift to the believer. And then the one gifted to be the prophet has the potential to grow into the status of super prophet. And those who do must have tuned their frequency better than others.
God's gift does not need refining. When he gave the gift of healing to the apostles they healed perfectly according to God's will. They didn't need time to develop the gift.
Haha you can think whatever your theoretical christianity commends you.
@@TheJpep2424 they do.
Glory To GOD!!!
Geno Jennings !!!
Thanks brothers
What did you think about Kim Clement
👎!
Very insightful discussion, thank you. I had one thought when you addressed the "dissobedient" person still being able to prophesy. Balam and Saul both prophesied although they were being disobedient. Any thoughts
So if the five ministry gifts are foundational, are “pastors” and “teachers” and “evangelists” operating in a false position because the foundation has already been laid?
Ephesians 4, written in AD 61/62, lists the gifts of apostles, prophets, evangelists, and pastor-teachers given to the Church. Ephesians 2 defines apostle and prophets as foundational to the establishment of the Church. We know that the foundation of a building is laid only once. It is upon the foundation that the building is constructed. As such, we continue to need evangelists and pastor-teachers in the ongoing work of building upon the one foundation.
@@carolberubee That’s a good answer. My thoughts on it are similar - however, when Paul said he bore in his body the marks of an apostle, it seems that there are some men of God whose bodies also bear those marks of hazarding their lives for the cause of Christ - paying an unusual price in order to establish works in a given local and then go on to the next unreached place. As to prophets, I also think there may be some as well since why would God only eliminate the prophet? Also, it takes a hand to build something - and the 5-fold ministry is often paralleled to a hand. What kind of work can a three fingered hand do? It would be difficult at best and God does all things well.
@@joshockey7447 Thanks for your reply. I know you will agree that just because a Christian suffers persecution, he is not automatically regarded as an apostle. There's more to it than that.
First, all of the Apostles had the gifts of the Spirit, including healing, miracles, and tongues (2 Corinthians 12:12, Acts 1:26-2:4, 1 Corinthians 14:18).
Second, to be an Apostle, one must have personally seen Christ (Acts 1:21-26).
Paul was the last Apostle (1 Corinthians 15:8).
They did get one prophecy right however. The one about clear vision--but it is a bit more ironic than they would have preferred. Through getting literally all of 2020 wrong, they exposed themselves for who they are thus providing the clear vision that was desperately needed for many genuinely deceived believers.
@Justin Peters or anyone with an answer. In the church at Corinth, Paul the Apostle tells them that the prophecies given are to be judged - if there was no potential for error by the ones Paul says should desire the best gifts ie prophecy. Why would there be a need for judging it if their word could not have error....without being labeled a false prophet.
@@Seraphina_Elihu and possibly in the multiplicity of judges, there is accuracy based on the understood direction of the fellowship.
Thank you Justin for your ministry.
Where can I ask questions about certain topics? Both of Brother Peters. I’d also like the view of the Pastor on with you today. Thanks so much!! God Bless!
@Tricia Barnes Kootenai Community Church pastor Jim Osman in Sandpoint, ID he’s very solid in his teaching. 👍🙏
@@Savedbygrace22 my son Scott is a realtor in Sandpoint ID unfortunately he’s not saved I’m thankfu for Jim Osman & the Church for being in that community perhaps my son & family will be lead to Jim 🙏🎚
This was amazing! My wife and I knew it was happening all week and almost missed it. God bless you all and your individual ministries. Certainly are a blessing to my family and we thank you! Solus Christus
“Oh, why will they split hairs? Why don’t they see that this is just the one thing that they themselves need? They are good teachers, they are wonderful teachers, and I am so glad to have them here; but why will they not see that the baptism with the Holy Spirit is just the one touch that they themselves need?” - DL Moody
What miracles does the panel believe God has chosen to continue using?
Salvation. That's all that is needed.
@@apostasiaelegcho5612 That has always been true since the days of the Apostles. I did not ask what is needed. I asked what the panel believes God still uses.
@@apostasiaelegcho5612 Are you saying God no longer performs any miracles except the miracle of salvation? That position would be blatantly un-biblical. At least cessationists seem to try and allow some meager miracles.
@@michaelwener6455 No, that's not what I said at all.
@@apostasiaelegcho5612 Then can you tell me what miracles do cessationists believe God can still perform through His people?
Is the charismatic movement/Micheal Brown going to respond to your discussion? They need to be dealing with these false prophets.
And dealing with themselves first
Great discussion!
Roundtables are good. But at some point, we have to include some folks who think differently. Just to be fair, and so we actually get somewhere.
Well Dunce, would Todd Bentley scratch your itch?
@@timcarlG I'll check him out and get back to you, brother. He just might!
Ok, that's a no. But Todd White, maybe.
While certainly any and all prophecy is inerrant and infallible, it also seems clear in Scripture that not every prophecy is Scripture, such as the man who bound himself in Paul's girdle and prophesied about Paul. Obviously, that prophecy does appear in Scripture, but the straightforward read of the text indicates a kind of prophecy which is not Scripture. The difference is that Scripture is recorded for all, and God has made it obvious to all that the Scriptures are the Scriptures. A personal prophecy, like what Paul received, is not recorded for all and God does not make it obvious that personal prophecies are Scripture.
Maybe I'm somehow mistaken here, but this seems to be what Scripture indicates.
I am a person who did receive a miraculous physical healing, one that I could physically feel as the healing took place. I was at a church service, just a small church, wasn't a healing meeting or anything like that, just a regular church night. At that time I was the piano player/worship leader at another small church but something happened to my hand and the pain had me unable to play at the time There was a young man preaching and all of a sudden he stop talking and stopped and stared at me with a look of fear, he walked to where I was sitting and in a soft quiet voice he said , Ma'am, I don't know what is wrong with your arm (it was in a cast that could be removed to bathe) but God wants to heal it but you must first understand something. He didnt' do it in any proud boastful style, he was full of fear and confused as me. I didn't know how to react so I silently set through the rest of the service in silent prayer, when I got home my arm began to vibrate and I could feel what could be described as electricity running down my arm into my fingers. My hand was completely healed at that moment. There have been other times similar things have happened so I know God still works in miraculous ways but not in the way all these so called prophets and apostles claim. Just wanted to share. To God be the Glory, always.
Awesome testimony.
Well said and shared. Thankyou
Thankyou for addressing this
Thank you gentleman for your ministry.
Enjoyed this very much!
Prophetess Cindy Jacob's and Prophet Julius Subhi came to Asia to prophesy. They prophesy that Covid19 will disappear in April 2020.
Cindy refuses to sign the document in question aswell. At least that’s consistent
Do any of these so called charismatic leaders have any fear of God?
Kenneth Copeland is just a nasty person !!!
No
It’s all about money and greed. Can’t give that up!!
It's not just about money, it's also about ego and power.
My mantra as of 2020 is: POWER- MONEY-GREED is from Satan & that’s what is Ruling the WHOLE WORLD!!! That’s why we as Believers need each other to spread the TRUTH about Our SAVIOR JESUS CHRIST. These 3 men have spoken the TRUTH!! Thanks Be To GOD!
I don't get why some people here are uptight because they either nearly missed it or did miss it live...... what's the difference if you watch it now or then ??
Anyway...Good show, Gentlemen. Very thoughtful coverage of a very dangerous movement.
Every last signatory appears to have ‘taken the 5th’…🤦🏼♂️
Please do this again guys 🙂
First off I would like to say that when it comes to the Prosperity Ministry I believe and I agree with you guys 100% but then I disagree with you guys when you say that certain gifts are not used anymore the Bible does not back it up. @11:40 you say I do believe it’s Jim Osmond says that once the gift for filled what they are supposed to do they’re not used anymore but you would have to include teaching and preaching also because of the Lord is using me to teach someone and then I leave the conversations over the gift of teaching is not being used any more until the Lord wills it for me to teach someone else as the Lord uses someone to prophecy and or pray to the Lord tongues is the samething. The Lord uses them as he wills and once they’re done full feeling what the Lord wants to tell the person they’re not used again until the Lord wills it for somebody else to use it. how can you take out just to three gifts which the Holy Spirit never changes it’s the same yesterday today and forever and say that they’re no longer being used when God can use it whenever he wills them to use it? I understand why you think that way because of how much those gifts are being abused but all the gifts are being abused just as much when it comes to teaching and preaching. In first Corinthian‘s Paul explains all the gifts that are being used and they’re all for fullfeeling things that is of God‘s will all of them all the gifts and God can will people to use the same gift again for different purposes that is including tongues and prophecy and healing you can’t remove three gifts just because you don’t agree to being used. the word of God is clear about that and I know that being abused a lot but why can’t it be in the middle like teaching and preaching is there OK those gifts are being used for fullfilling and used again. it’s not going to be completely fulfilled until the second coming of Christ then none of the gifts will be needed anymore. I love you guys but when it comes to the gifts I will have to disagree when it comes to the prosperity ministries that you’re preaching on I one hundred percent agree with that! @13:29
1st Corinthians chp 14 verse 2 For one who speaks in Tongues does not speak to men but to God no one no one understands but in that his spirit he speaks mysteries.
It is kind of funny that you didn’t mention this Bible verse and no Paul was not saying that speaking in tongue will stop he was warning the church don’t abuse speaking in tongues just like don’t abuse prophecy don’t abuse teaching don’t abuse other gifts that’s all he was saying here. He would rather see
Prophecy for a edifies the church more than tongues. I also find it kind a wondering that prophecy is OK as long as it measures up to what you guys believe prophetcy should be like it can’t be the other way that’s not allowed. I’m going to say one more thing about this he said that it was a sign of an apostle and the apostle can put the gift on someone else that is OK but God for bid that the Holy Spirit does it the Holy Spirit have all the gifts including speaking in tongues prophecy and healing the Holy Spirit is the spirit of God and word of God says God never changes he is the same yesterday today and forever. I love them I agree with them when it comes to the prosperity ministry but they are changing the word also to make it benefit of what they believe instead of taking it straight out of the Bible what the word of God says. I agree with you Phill Johnson the gifts or not for everyone all the time the word of God says God spreads the GIfts to many people as he wills it. God bless you guys I love you and keep exposing the faults prophets.
Thanks guys for doing this
So “if” there are prophets today...and there are so many prophesying today, how do we determine the ones that we must listen to, and obey what they say as God himself spoke? Then how do I ensure that I get the words of theses prophets in order to obey it. And if I don’t ever hear the prophecy then How will I be in the loop of what God is requiring of us today? When you think it all through it is nuts.
Good question. Read and understand the Word and find biblically qualified pastors who are faithful to the Word.
Thank You men of GOD for a thought provoking insightful commentary for all Christians to hear.