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He said check performance on other reviewers!! 😂😂😂 Mate, you're the only guy in the world, AFAIK, presenting data as deep as you do and testing so accurately. Sadly, you're the only human being we can believe how a watch performs. If you don't test it we don't buy it.
Yeah, it's quite rare for someone to be the ONLY source of specific information. Most other reviews are "hey, this watch is beautiful, has a lot of functions, good battery. Buy it"
you're the most trustworthy smartwatch reviewer out there. i always check your reviews before buying one. i and many others really appreciate your deeply scientific review. thank you.
Hey Rob, can you try switching watches used on your left and right for different sessions or days. Just to make sure that the inaccuracy is not an issue with the particular device. Love your reviews, Keep them going. I am still waiting for your watch fit 3 full review.
Thanks for the detailed review. I watched both your videos. My suggestion would be to add the price into the assessment. If you're comparing a $60 device with a $600 device and the former is 10% less accurate, it's a pretty good deal for most people. A person who needs medical grade accuracy should be smart enough to know that budget devices in the market may not be the most suitable option.
Ele não costuma testar o mesmo dispositivo mais de uma vez, a não ser que o dispositivo tenha apresentado problemas e ele queira verificar se alguma atualização tornou as medições melhores.
That is why Garmin is still leading in terms of health tracking with two(plus one) useful data: Stress and Body Battery (And HRV on newer watches). Everything else is just a hit or miss. But then again, I sold my ForeRunner 255 because I feel my body: why need any gadget to show you how is your health? Waste of money...
Thanks for the update, Rob. This is precisely why people trust your reviews so much! Also, I've noticed that you don't do reviews of honor bands/smartwatches. Is there a particular reason? I've seen they have some very nice and cheap options but since they're no longer with Huawei I don't know if they're any good. Would be excellent having a review of some of their latest products.
Thank you for your research! I can suppose that because of left and right hands have a bit different thickness and you was using band with silicone strap - here is the reason of the difference. I also suppose that if you was using bands with nylon straps you would obtain more close results for right and left hand. I also think it explains why in a second session you get closer result - hands swell during exercises. I also noticed in you review that huawei watch fit3 you showed had a nylon strap, but as for manufacturer specs they both (band 9 and fit 3) has the same sensors which again makes me think that nylon strap and it accuracy to fit tight - is the case.
Interesting finding. Bet if you measure your blood pressure in both arms different positions, there is a difference. This could change the sensing, specially in mediocre watches. For me the Samsung 6 is HORRIBLE, doesn't pick HR or SAT in either hand. Cheers and keep the good work.
Love this detailed and honest review. Bought the band 9 recently and felt guilty after your first review. Now relieved. Will keep my band on my left wrist...until I can afford an Apple watch😂😂
Thank You for the review 🙂. But if you asked me a suggestion on how Huawei will be able to make their Smartwatch highly accurate is if they will collaborate with companies who makes medical grade devices.
Once again Rob, thank you. I'm guessing without a proper HR monitor to check the accuracy, I wouldn't know if the optimal placement should be on my right or left hand. This is an issue.
thanks Rob, bought the watch after ur initial review, happy with the heart rate reading it gives for my outdoor running, easy to connect to Strava, love the duration of sleep time (seems quite accurate even with the wake up times), I also feel that when I wear them on my left then my right, better reading on left.
Wow! Thank you so much for this video! The graphs were so helpful! Now I know to aim for other watches. The fitbit inspire 2 seems to be the one closest to my price range lol
This is pretty good!! I keep thinking about the Oneplus Watch 2, given how good it's battery is, and the interesting approach they have taken with the dual chip for the performance, I hope you will gain interest in trying it out and testing it out!! It seems a pretty good product!
What I love about fitbit is that they track overall calorie consumption during the day ,my question is what watches can do the same and which one have the most accurate data ?this might be another interesting session on your video
Using a Band 8 at the moment for swim tracking in a lap pool and its pretty good, with everything turned on except AOD, and 5 hrs swimming per week, still getting 7 days battery life.
Rob, please be wary of the power you hold. You are the only one doing what you are doing so your voice really has weight. Other reviewers dont matter almost hahaha
What is very interesting (I have Band 8 and Band 9 that I bought today and updated) Band 9 updates faster on screen. The heart rate. Like if one says 98 it is always Band 9 first. Tried to switch hands too, same
With the current data established for the left watch vs the right watch, you should swap the watches and do the tests again in order to determine if there is a quality issue between the two fitness watches or if there is simply a quality issue between your arms, lol.
right! 😄 Now I am wondering if this is related to you circulation on R/L wrists, have you tried with different persons using same R/L? Maybe now all watches measured previously could be bias too ... Anyway great job!
Hallo allereerst super bedankt voor je content! Het helpt enorm. Ik heb een concrete vraag, mocht je daar tijd voor hebben om op te antwoorden. Zelf heb ik een Fenix 7 en ik merk dat ik vooral veel waarde hecht aan de HRV en Body Battery functies. Weet je toevallig of er ook een budget wearable is met deze of soortgelijken functies?
2 месяца назад
Maybe you already answered in a previous video or in a comment but do you measure how tight you thighten the watches ? It would be a little unfair to loosen the bracelet a bit for one of the watches that you are testing. Thank you for your videos, you helped me buy the Amazfit Balance after my Huawei watch 3 pro stopped working for no reason and I realized the absence of GPS on the Band 8 was a problem to me.
Hi Rob, my own testing also differs from yours and also left-right hand gives a different results. For example Garmin watches works better for me than Huawei in terms of HR accuracy....that is the opposite of what you experience with them and I really don't know what to make of that...
1 its really hard to believe that human hands can be built different. 2 Cant wait reviews for upcoming samsung and pixel watches. 3 Now i like my band 8 even more =))
Hello Sorry but I've been watching a few (now recent) videos for a heart rate tracker and make sure which ones are more accurate If you don't mind can you please tell me a watch or appliance that is a better heart rate tracker My fitbit versa 2 seems to have a mind of its own
You can’t always do things all by yourself… because, with injuries or illness, it tends to false the final results … So I have a little doubts on results… Anyway, keep going and take some rest !
It seems that gt3 pro and fit 2 are still the best choice unless you don't care about Apple's battery life and you have an IOS phone. I have the band 8 that cost me 39 euro, except that the screen is not as big as Fit2 and not as good looking, there seems to be no other problems. I really hope they can make a watch with the same size screen as the fit3 and the same accurate sensor as the fit2. That might be perfect.
It is awesome that you do these tests. And i enjoy the videos. But, these are not enough to make a good decision. There seems to be a huge problem with these trackers. And they are not being addressed in this video. But a whole lot of people experience overheating issues with the huawei band 9 when they actually go outside and use it! And if i hadn't read the reviews on Amazon, i would have already bought one and regretted it. A fitness tracker should not overheat because someone is doing sports outside. It renders the whole tracker completely useless. Even if it had the most accurate sensors in the world. It would make it a complete waste of money.. So i would suggest you actually add some tests to your routine so you could in fact be the go to place to find a smartwatch or fitness tracker.
Vielleicht können Sie mir weiterhelfen eine gute, günstige, Android kompatible Smartwatch zu finden die ich mit Google fit und AOK Bonus Programm verbinden kann. Bisher hatte ich die Amazfit Bip u Pro. Seit ich aber Blutdruck Probleme habe suche ich eine Präzisere Smartwatch. Ich habe Huawei Fit 3 getestet aber Huawei Health ist nicht direkt mit Google Fit und dem AOK Bonus Programm zu koppeln. Man muss mit einen Drittanbieter synchronisieren. Dazu kommt das es anscheinend nicht sicher ist Huawei Programme und Geräte zu benutzen
@@michelhenrique88 well, it detects when I get into bed and out , the rest isn't accurate. It also illuminates sometimes when moving in my sleep which wakes me up if my hand is near my face! :)
@@LucaTake Screen brightness was set to automatic. It was darker then my old GT Runner. I habe compared them together in a direct sunlight. PS: Xiaomi band 9 is a kind between Huawei Band 9 and the GT Runner.
Not really. Fit 3 delivers the exact same heart rate data than a Garmin Fénix 7. And sleep tracking is way better, at least for duration. Sleep phases are not interesting to me as I cannot influence them anyway. I only need sleep duration to be accurate. GPS tracking is also similar. Fit 3 beats my Garmins quite easily especially for the price.
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Your reviews of actual performance are incredible! Unfortunately most people will not buy on accuracy and precision. But those of us who watch you really appreciate your work.
Swap the bands between left and right hands and measure again. This will help determine if the issue lies with the device or the difference between your hands.
Not to diss on your work which I follow since you re the only one doing these deep and accurate analysis, but for this comparison make sense you would have to do the herculious task of testing all the other watches on your left wrist, because probably they would perform better on the left aswell, so you would have another whole term of comparison in a general scale. Keep up the great work!
Thank you Rob ! So my conclusion is that... it's expected. There are low-end and high-end watches for a reason. I feel like we will never have much better watches regarding hearth-rate performances and sleep, or at least until a very long time. But imo hearth rate accuracy is more than enough for daily usage, as well as sleep tracking which in my case help my know when I fall asleep and when I wake up.
Not really, if you go to the Watch Fit 3 review, it's one of the top performers, closing in to the Apple watches, and soundly beating most Garmin watches that are way more expensive. Price != quality, it really comes down to case by case basis.
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He said check performance on other reviewers!! 😂😂😂 Mate, you're the only guy in the world, AFAIK, presenting data as deep as you do and testing so accurately. Sadly, you're the only human being we can believe how a watch performs. If you don't test it we don't buy it.
Right he is the only one atleast till date
100% true on that "if you don't test it we don't buy it" line because he's the sole reason I bought the Band 8 version
Yeah, it's quite rare for someone to be the ONLY source of specific information. Most other reviews are "hey, this watch is beautiful, has a lot of functions, good battery. Buy it"
Sad but true. For accuracy of health metrics, there is no one else
Agree! If there's a new smart watch on the market, there's only one guy i seek with the review.
This video is proof that you are one of the most honest people reviewing tech. Thank you ! Keep doing your excellent job!!
Thanks so much!
I agree
fr never thought someone would do so much research before presenting the video
you're the most trustworthy smartwatch reviewer out there. i always check your reviews before buying one. i and many others really appreciate your deeply scientific review. thank you.
Hey Rob, can you try switching watches used on your left and right for different sessions or days. Just to make sure that the inaccuracy is not an issue with the particular device. Love your reviews, Keep them going. I am still waiting for your watch fit 3 full review.
Thanks for the detailed review. I watched both your videos. My suggestion would be to add the price into the assessment. If you're comparing a $60 device with a $600 device and the former is 10% less accurate, it's a pretty good deal for most people. A person who needs medical grade accuracy should be smart enough to know that budget devices in the market may not be the most suitable option.
Hey, buddy. Thanks for the new video. Your job is very nice! A question: do you intend to try Huawei Watch Fit 3 again? Regards from Brazil 🇧🇷
He already did it
Ele não costuma testar o mesmo dispositivo mais de uma vez, a não ser que o dispositivo tenha apresentado problemas e ele queira verificar se alguma atualização tornou as medições melhores.
Its a drag that after all these years, health tracking watches havent evolved at all
😂 true..i have wasted well around 200$ till date on this crap. Especially on Xiaomi and Amzfit
@@PratikDeshmukh1well I got you beat lol I have a Apple Watch Series 8 and an ultra 1 also a Garmin Epix Pro and a Garmin Forerunner 965
@@PratikDeshmukh1 so around 3200 us dollars
Some devices are getting better, but it's a slow process over many years 🙂
That is why Garmin is still leading in terms of health tracking with two(plus one) useful data: Stress and Body Battery (And HRV on newer watches). Everything else is just a hit or miss. But then again, I sold my ForeRunner 255 because I feel my body: why need any gadget to show you how is your health? Waste of money...
Thanks for the update, Rob. This is precisely why people trust your reviews so much! Also, I've noticed that you don't do reviews of honor bands/smartwatches. Is there a particular reason? I've seen they have some very nice and cheap options but since they're no longer with Huawei I don't know if they're any good. Would be excellent having a review of some of their latest products.
I was really looking forward to the full episode! Thank you so much for this episode in particular and for all the work you do!🎉😮
Thank you for your research! I can suppose that because of left and right hands have a bit different thickness and you was using band with silicone strap - here is the reason of the difference. I also suppose that if you was using bands with nylon straps you would obtain more close results for right and left hand. I also think it explains why in a second session you get closer result - hands swell during exercises. I also noticed in you review that huawei watch fit3 you showed had a nylon strap, but as for manufacturer specs they both (band 9 and fit 3) has the same sensors which again makes me think that nylon strap and it accuracy to fit tight - is the case.
Interesting finding. Bet if you measure your blood pressure in both arms different positions, there is a difference. This could change the sensing, specially in mediocre watches. For me the Samsung 6 is HORRIBLE, doesn't pick HR or SAT in either hand. Cheers and keep the good work.
Love this detailed and honest review. Bought the band 9 recently and felt guilty after your first review. Now relieved. Will keep my band on my left wrist...until I can afford an Apple watch😂😂
Is there no chance you will review the scanwatch 2 at this point ? Really value your thoughts on all wearables the most 🙏🏽
+ 1 on this, I need a review for the scanwatch 2
Seriously please dude
we definitely need him to revisit Withings in general. Would love to know how they perform nowadays
Thank You for the review 🙂. But if you asked me a suggestion on how Huawei will be able to make their Smartwatch highly accurate is if they will collaborate with companies who makes medical grade devices.
I have been waiting for this video about my Huawei band 9, thanks Rob😊👌
Once again Rob, thank you. I'm guessing without a proper HR monitor to check the accuracy, I wouldn't know if the optimal placement should be on my right or left hand. This is an issue.
How about "racing" two Apple Watch SEs against each other on your left and right hand?
thanks Rob, bought the watch after ur initial review, happy with the heart rate reading it gives for my outdoor running, easy to connect to Strava, love the duration of sleep time (seems quite accurate even with the wake up times), I also feel that when I wear them on my left then my right, better reading on left.
What’s up man, how do you connected your huawei band 9 to strava?
@@jeanmikhailmendiola6913 there is a guide from the strava web
Oooh my band 6 screen is going to shits after several years. I'm in a market for a new one either the 9, the fit special edition or fit 3
Same
Same situation, what did u choose?
Please review the Muse S. we’ve seen all these wrist worn devices. Please do an EEG device.
Wow! Thank you so much for this video! The graphs were so helpful! Now I know to aim for other watches. The fitbit inspire 2 seems to be the one closest to my price range lol
This is pretty good!!
I keep thinking about the Oneplus Watch 2, given how good it's battery is, and the interesting approach they have taken with the dual chip for the performance, I hope you will gain interest in trying it out and testing it out!! It seems a pretty good product!
What I love about fitbit is that they track overall calorie consumption during the day ,my question is what watches can do the same and which one have the most accurate data ?this might be another interesting session on your video
Tracking calories is dated and proven useless.
Great review as always, could you maybe do some of the new amazfits? Balance maybe?
Hear rate test 2 is amazinggggg. Over than Watch Ultra Gen 2
Using a Band 8 at the moment for swim tracking in a lap pool and its pretty good, with everything turned on except AOD, and 5 hrs swimming per week, still getting 7 days battery life.
Rob, please be wary of the power you hold. You are the only one doing what you are doing so your voice really has weight. Other reviewers dont matter almost hahaha
This video makes Band 8 looks like a really good deal. Costs only like $25 on Aliexpress
What is very interesting (I have Band 8 and Band 9 that I bought today and updated) Band 9 updates faster on screen. The heart rate. Like if one says 98 it is always Band 9 first. Tried to switch hands too, same
Which of the two do you recommend for sleep monitoring?
Could you please review Suunto Race S? 🤩
With the current data established for the left watch vs the right watch, you should swap the watches and do the tests again in order to determine if there is a quality issue between the two fitness watches or if there is simply a quality issue between your arms, lol.
I suppose the left handed band monitored better due to the fact been closer to the heart area. By the way please do a review on the Honor watch 4!🙌
Your reviews are very helpful, thank you for that. Could you please do a review on Suunto watches?
Can we have the review for Mi Band 9 soon??
Would it be possible to do a 3rd rewiev of it, since the move to the newHarmonyOS 4.2 update ?
right! 😄 Now I am wondering if this is related to you circulation on R/L wrists, have you tried with different persons using same R/L? Maybe now all watches measured previously
could be bias too ... Anyway great job!
Hallo allereerst super bedankt voor je content! Het helpt enorm. Ik heb een concrete vraag, mocht je daar tijd voor hebben om op te antwoorden. Zelf heb ik een Fenix 7 en ik merk dat ik vooral veel waarde hecht aan de HRV en Body Battery functies. Weet je toevallig of er ook een budget wearable is met deze of soortgelijken functies?
Maybe you already answered in a previous video or in a comment but do you measure how tight you thighten the watches ?
It would be a little unfair to loosen the bracelet a bit for one of the watches that you are testing.
Thank you for your videos, you helped me buy the Amazfit Balance after my Huawei watch 3 pro stopped working for no reason and I realized the absence of GPS on the Band 8 was a problem to me.
Hi Rob, my own testing also differs from yours and also left-right hand gives a different results. For example Garmin watches works better for me than Huawei in terms of HR accuracy....that is the opposite of what you experience with them and I really don't know what to make of that...
Doctor Quantifier we expect the same test for the Galaxy fit 3 then lol
Which is the best "smart" watch for cycling? I am asking because I know you are also more a cyclist than a runner.
Suunto Race S …. Please 🙏
Xiaomi Band 8 Pro next? it has GPS, i'm really curious
Are you planning review for Ultra Human Ring Air?
Thanks for the update
Hope this video is real deal
When are you doing Withings scanwatch nova & scanwatch 2 tests?
Dude thank you its a big help
Awesome video. Thank you very much for this work
1 its really hard to believe that human hands can be built different. 2 Cant wait reviews for upcoming samsung and pixel watches. 3 Now i like my band 8 even more =))
Love your videos! Any chance you will review the Garmin Vivomove Trend? The Vivomove series hasn't received enough attention from your channel.
can you test HUAWEI WATCH 4 Pro please
I neeeeeed!
Hello
Sorry but I've been watching a few (now recent) videos for a heart rate tracker and make sure which ones are more accurate
If you don't mind can you please tell me a watch or appliance that is a better heart rate tracker
My fitbit versa 2 seems to have a mind of its own
thanks Rob.
If you have time, can you try honor band 9 / honor watch 4/honor watch gs 3/4/ honor choice watch? thanks so much!!!❤❤❤❤❤
Wait when did you do Huawei Watch Fit 3?😂
Have you changed devices on left and right hand?
Can you please kindly recommend what is the best oxygen monitor watch? Please need for health reason.
He has videos for best smartwatches in each category, just look it up
You can’t always do things all by yourself… because, with injuries or illness, it tends to false the final results … So I have a little doubts on results…
Anyway, keep going and take some rest !
What’s that mask you are wearing while cycling indoors?
Have you reviewed Xiaomi Smart Band 8 Pro?
It seems that gt3 pro and fit 2 are still the best choice unless you don't care about Apple's battery life and you have an IOS phone. I have the band 8 that cost me 39 euro, except that the screen is not as big as Fit2 and not as good looking, there seems to be no other problems. I really hope they can make a watch with the same size screen as the fit3 and the same accurate sensor as the fit2. That might be perfect.
I'm currently looking at Huawei band 8 or 9. I currently have a band 3pro and thinking about changing
It is awesome that you do these tests. And i enjoy the videos. But, these are not enough to make a good decision. There seems to be a huge problem with these trackers. And they are not being addressed in this video. But a whole lot of people experience overheating issues with the huawei band 9 when they actually go outside and use it! And if i hadn't read the reviews on Amazon, i would have already bought one and regretted it. A fitness tracker should not overheat because someone is doing sports outside. It renders the whole tracker completely useless. Even if it had the most accurate sensors in the world. It would make it a complete waste of money.. So i would suggest you actually add some tests to your routine so you could in fact be the go to place to find a smartwatch or fitness tracker.
Hope u can do Mi Band 9 review
You should test the new ones, amazfit amd the samsung one coming
Hi do you post this graphs on your website?
Vielleicht können Sie mir weiterhelfen eine gute, günstige, Android kompatible Smartwatch zu finden die ich mit Google fit und AOK Bonus Programm verbinden kann. Bisher hatte ich die Amazfit Bip u Pro. Seit ich aber Blutdruck Probleme habe suche ich eine Präzisere Smartwatch. Ich habe Huawei Fit 3 getestet aber Huawei Health ist nicht direkt mit Google Fit und dem AOK Bonus Programm zu koppeln. Man muss mit einen Drittanbieter synchronisieren. Dazu kommt das es anscheinend nicht sicher ist Huawei Programme und Geräte zu benutzen
Honor Band 9 Review? Thank You
GIVE HIM MORE STUFF!!
GIVE HIM MORE STUFF!!
GIVE HIM MORE STUFF!!
GIVE HIM MORE STUFF!!!
Agree with the sleep tracking, it only really knows when I physically get into bed and get out of bed. . So I no longer wear it at night.
Don't have good sleep accuracy?
@@michelhenrique88 well, it detects when I get into bed and out , the rest isn't accurate. It also illuminates sometimes when moving in my sleep which wakes me up if my hand is near my face! :)
Please, test Redmi Watch 4.
please do scientific review of redmi watch 4
How did you get raw data for this?
Please redo samsung galaxy 6 after few firmware updates to see where its at now plzzzz
Maybe Amazfit t-rex 2 / Ultra ??
so the trusleep technology by huawei is just some mumbo jumbo
Where are chapters?
omg nooo I just got the 8 yesterday bc of the video 😢 😢😢should I send it back and buy the 9 instead?
8 still looks beter
Do redmi watch4 pls 🙏🏻
Oneplus watch 2 please 🥹
Ultra human ring please
Xiaomi watch 2?
Why do you wear a mask when cycling indoors?
You mean my VO2 Max measuring device? The VO2 Master Analyzer?
@@TheQuantifiedScientist Oh I didn't realize what that was! Interesting!
Again, there is no software version with which the device was tested
HB8 still the Best
well, less sad now. Good. Not great, but good.
I had the band 9 for one week, but sent it back to Amazon, because the display was a kind too dark. Else its a really nice tracker.
even after setting the brightness up?
@@LucaTake Screen brightness was set to automatic. It was darker then my old GT Runner. I habe compared them together in a direct sunlight. PS: Xiaomi band 9 is a kind between Huawei Band 9 and the GT Runner.
Bro testing POLAR vs Band 9 , pls just skip this vid
huawai this year disapointing. Band 9 and the new watch fit 3 where trash
Not really. Fit 3 delivers the exact same heart rate data than a Garmin Fénix 7. And sleep tracking is way better, at least for duration. Sleep phases are not interesting to me as I cannot influence them anyway. I only need sleep duration to be accurate.
GPS tracking is also similar. Fit 3 beats my Garmins quite easily especially for the price.
They are trash compare to the previous generation but when compare with other competitors they still one of the best at their price point
@@Dangg1589I wondered about the Fit 2. It's on sale for 99€ here. You think I should get one? Can it play music while running?
Which one do you recommend exclusively for sleep monitoring: Huawei Band 8 or 9?
@@michelhenrique88 none.
If you want sleep tracking go for any apple device
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Which is more recommended for sleep monitoring: Huawei Band 8 or 9?
Have you reviewed Xiaomi Redmi Watch 4?
it is so bad don't buy it
Your reviews of actual performance are incredible! Unfortunately most people will not buy on accuracy and precision. But those of us who watch you really appreciate your work.
Thanks for the update!
Hope you can update Huawei watch fit 3 vidéo too! ❤
Can you do a comparison between huawei band 9 and Samsung fit 3.
surely swapping the watches over would have been worthwhile with such a large difference
Swap the bands between left and right hands and measure again. This will help determine if the issue lies with the device or the difference between your hands.
Left is closer to your heart, that's why good doctors measure everything on the left side as well.
Not to diss on your work which I follow since you re the only one doing these deep and accurate analysis, but for this comparison make sense you would have to do the herculious task of testing all the other watches on your left wrist, because probably they would perform better on the left aswell, so you would have another whole term of comparison in a general scale. Keep up the great work!
Thanks for the video Rob, would you do the same for huawei watch fit 3?
Thank you Rob !
So my conclusion is that... it's expected. There are low-end and high-end watches for a reason. I feel like we will never have much better watches regarding hearth-rate performances and sleep, or at least until a very long time. But imo hearth rate accuracy is more than enough for daily usage, as well as sleep tracking which in my case help my know when I fall asleep and when I wake up.
I compared the Huawei Fit 3 to my Garmin Fénix 7 Pro and there was absolutely no difference in the heart rate they detected while running.
Not really, if you go to the Watch Fit 3 review, it's one of the top performers, closing in to the Apple watches, and soundly beating most Garmin watches that are way more expensive. Price != quality, it really comes down to case by case basis.