Rudy cares about profits only. But his advice is sound for this one. Value your time more. Go out, explore, meet more people. Spend your money there. Do not dedicate your money in any hobby as a means of investment. Hobbies are always money pits first, and you will only recoup some of the value.
Why would anyone try to stop this when it's so funny to watch idiots invest so much in paper knowing full well this happens? It's hard to know what to gloat most over. This or shitty nft apes I don't recall the name of.
@@thechoki it's not the investors. this is just regular magic players with cards that they paid a high price for got nuked and wotc probably knew the whole time and didn't care. and why don't you invest in something else? you obviously care some amount about magic or you wouldn't be here, so now i can only think you're a troll who didn't own any of the banned cards and were salty about playgroups that played the card and now you're reveling in other people's misfortune. so... you probably kind of suck.
My question is - why do people even care about "rule" changes. Just ignore them, if they are ignored then they will change it back and nothing will happen.
@@MrThrond i just checked... The cheapest on cardmarket (english, 5th edition) is now 79euro.... Let's w8 one month and see how the supply will dry up. And what the price then will be... That's already an double in price since you checked 1 hour ago...
Love mtg, will always be a great memory from my childhood. However, the experience from the 90s to the modern era is so different. I truly hope it gets better but I don’t regret one bit ditching my collection in 2020.
@@johaadganor1684 The health of the format matters now? With so many releases every month, you'd think that the health of the format has become secondary to simply milking the cow for as long as they can.
@@leozmaxwelljilliumz3360 To be fair, the Lion's Eye Diamond was bad when it was printed. It took things like Bridge From Below and Dread Return and Narcomoeba to really break it, though even just flashback would get good. (I play the Hearth Elemental in a couple of decks for this same reason - set up reanimation targets and cheaper flashback spells like Lingering Souls and Unburial Rites.)
Bro it kinda sounds like this new group of players thinks that EDH is the only format available in mtg, and they didn't realize it's like mostly a borderline joke format made to be kitchen table for fun. Other formats don't even really respect us or take us seriously lmao Like they dont do deck checks or care if you proxy in most commander places man. This is kinda why so many people proxy this format. What we saw today is why real meta CEDH players basically demand you proxy and tell you to NOT buy the expensive cards even if you can afford them because they know how this goes. Modern, standard, pioneer you actually have to use the real cards as part of the rules but you're playing the wild west of mtg formats here, and in the wild west this type of thing can happen
@@joshhutchins6747have a guy in the playgroup that proxys. Yes you can tell. It's just ugly, but you do you. I don't have to look at your board and just enjoy mine 🤷♂️
We still make it up. The banlist used to just be cards we’d joke that made Sheldon salty and only had to respect it at the LGSs that cared about banlists. It’s a whole new monster now, all of reddit seems to think people only ever play pickup games at an LGS. I’d like to see the real numbers, I could be wrong but I wouldn’t be surprised if it isn’t 4 to 1. There’s twitter polls about the ban but who tf has a Twitter account anymore? I don’t.
If you’ve been collecting since the 90s you know how the singles market works. Go back to old issues of Inquest and Scrye and look at the Top 10s and what they were selling for then, and then what they’re going for now. Off the top of my head I can think of Two Headed Dragon, Cadaverous Bloom, Jesters Cap, Emperor Crocodile, Utopia Tree, Lin Sivvi, Absorb, so many cards that were selling for high dollar when they were contemporary, now you can get for like $1. Moral of the story, collect singles because you love it and for play.
Exactly, same here. Been collecting since 3rd edition, spending thousands every year...no more, all done. In the process of packing it all up and to shed it goes. Been wanting to get into buying precious metals for years but could never afford it. I can now...thanks wotc and FUCK OFF too. No more of my $$$ for you.
@@fallendeus Yup, and Haliburton got all those sweet government contracts legitimately with no shenanigans involving Dick Cheny. Also, corruption totally doesn't exist. Enron. Bank Bailouts. If you like your doctor you can keep your doctor. Can I interest you in a better health subscription?
I found ths gem in the FAQ: "5. Why didn’t you ban cards one at a time and see how that went? The decision to ban multiple cards at the same time (Dockside, Crypt, and Lotus) was based on the belief that it sends a stronger message about what we’re trying to achieve"🤣
They didn't want someone to have an explosive start. Land, Sol ring, arcane signet . Turn 2 now has 5 mana. Their argument is invalid. The RC should have an Actual player based voting system so Everyone can vote on bans
@@theundergrad5994 casuals player are happy that those cards are banned dont worry, the few "investors" crying are seen by most people as the same stupid NFT bros, people laught at them instead of feeling sorry
And I dont really see this as a win for 2X2 at all since it also has Dockside... Mana Vault has quite a bit more work to do if its supposed to even out the EV that has been lost by dockside plumetting.
When the storm surge from Helene mysteriously targets rudy's basement full of crypts and lotuses, will he use the pre- or post- ban replacement value for the insurance claim?
Yes. Over the past 5 years I've gone from casual games with friends to maybe playing twice a year because everyone has to have net decks for "tournaments".
@@CRACKINGPACKSMTG smothering is like 4 orders of magnitude worse than Rhystic. They won’t ban it unless they end up banning a bunch of Timmy’s first haymakers. Rhystic, sure.
Anymore I will proxy any card that costs more than $1. The max I will spend on any commander deck is $100. I play for fun, not to get rich off my collection in 20 years.
I deleted 40 plus mtg channels kept rudy and one anyone that deals with oldschool. Selling all my non 9394 cards and all rl cards . F this 😂 this is only the start . Guess im buying a new set of golf clubs
Nice, I've literally heard this once or twice a year since I started playing a decade ago 😅 it's never panned out. 99% of collections are safe from these types of swings, lots of cards are still going up every day
I understand the remorse and loss of everyone that had these cards, especially the lotus. But I honestly feel you had a large position is them and this is whats driving this vid, and the fact its a hot topic right now. I agree with you on all these topics and points you are bringing up. But also those cards were not healthy for the game. They were mistakes when they were made. i.e. Dockside and lotus and Nadu. Hasbro hasnt cared about anyone since the jump. I atleast felt Wotc used to. I bought proxies of these cards, planning on buying them when I had the funds. But maybe proxies are the way to go now for anything over 10$. I'm only out 2$ rather than over 200$. Food for thought. I know this doesn't go with your idea/mentallity on the game. But its better for the consumer as a whole for just getting these "Game Pieces" and playing. Love the vids, Cheers
I'm willing to pay more than 10-20 for actually interesting limited stuff, like a secret lair artist collab or whatever, but yes. No one should have been paying $80 for dockside unless they were playing at tournaments. Just proxy that shit.
WotC has been pricing their "premium" products according to the secondary market prices (which they officially ignore) for years. It's no coincidence that sets with "big" reprints had a higher booster price. So Rudy is completely right when he says that you can either have high booster prices because the cards you open are valuable, or you have cheap boosters with cheap game pieces. On that note: MH3 had fantastic EV. Opened a case of collectors, sold off loads of singles in the first week, made about 80% of my money back and kept an almost complete set for myself. Same with Bloomburrow. Now with Duskmourne I am struggling to reach 50%. Might be just unlucky pulls, but over a complete case that is not likely. So looks to me as a bad EV set, despite all the hype on the card strength.
It’s only a little funny because Yugioh players have to deal with this like every quarter (why I stopped playing and only play Magic). Happens to Magic once in 5-10 years and it’s apocalyptic. Tour Guide from the Underworld anyone ? 2011, new card is 600 bucks for a play set banned in a couple of months lol.
I agree with Rudy. I am not one to forget. I ran my own store for 8 years & closed with Covid 2020. I remember reducing the amount of MTG in my store because of how poorly WotC supported stores as a consumer I dont buy magic anymore. I still watch Rudy & laugh everytime WotC & Hasbro do things like this it happens so often I am glad I enjoy playing with what I have but refuse giving them another cent.
Just reminds of a video you made a really long time ago that literally said if you are trying to invest the only safe place is old sealed and reserved list cards, anything at is open to reprint is always open to getting crushed.
@@Surface48 Those bids are about to get canceled. People are listing foil borderless for $90 BIN and it'll probably go even lower at this rate. This card got absolutely destroyed.
Don’t forget the ancillary cards effected by this. Sylvans paradise, sea king blessing, and the alchemist blue card from onslaught are all going to zero cuz of the nadu ban. Mox opal is the next mana rock up in commander so it will probably climb in value; as you already mentioned mana vault, grim monolith will climb as well. Any clone effects (usually used in cEDH to target dockside) will drop in price, although only one was very expensive (the universes beyond one). I expect mox opal to get the most benefit in positive price action.
It's just a way to diversify and have fun. Lots of Timmy's dump into cardboard, but even rudy has stated multiple times you shouldn't be dumping money into this stuff unless you're already maxing 401k/ira, have real estate, etc.
This question, common as it is, fails to identify the 2 categories of people who “invest” in high end cards. You have the collector/rudy type people who speculate primarily, and you have the players who want to play powerful formats and buy expensive cards that hold value in order to do so. Basically the guys who have dual lands because they want to play with them and there’s a pretty stable market for them. A lot of us know the cost is absurdly high for these cards, but it used to be that even for non-reserved list evergreen staples, prices were stable for a long time. I do not buy cards anymore because I can’t afford to sink thousands of dollars into cardboard that is worthless in a few weeks. That’s why I quit Yugioh (as well as the absurd power creep). If players don’t have a lot of money to play the game in the first place (most everybody doesn’t, any the people who do often neglect their finances in some other way to get their cardboard fix), why would they waste money on expensive cards that could become worthless at a moment’s notice? Also, this comment is primarily focused on legacy/modern/pioneer players. You can roll up to a commander pod with a roll of TP with the names of cards written on each of the squares and ask the other Timmies to play with you and they will. This whole implosion is the funniest thing ever because everything in commander is made up and the points don’t matter.
Is this a call to get rid of card sleeves? I am sure card making companies would love that as the cards won't last so they can print replacements out the ass
Yhea, i don’t see why magic players are crying about it, the card is banned yet it still exist and see play in other formats so it remains as something with valor… Also I see funny how Hasbro make that card for probably cents or less and the greedy player base gave it a inflated price because of yes, you know a player base is weird when you buy cards first for an investment first and then playable valor second
It's because Magic the Gathering isn't like Yugioh. MtG is a luxury card game that actually has value whether you want to believe it or not. People are losing there minds because RC and WOTC did the one thing they should have never done.
@@joshuajinsu2559 that’s an elitist perspective. Commander exist for the game not investors. If cards being removed from legality affects those prices than it was a poor investment. Diversify your portfolio so you don’t take an L. The RC never promised they would never ban these cards and there should be no problem with removing cards from the format which should not be there.
The idea is to phase out the old cards, so with Fire design, you must acquire new ones to keep up. Hypothetically for those that play commander, you can just stop recognizing the formats current banned restricted list announcements.
All this means... Mana Vault Secret Lair. Mana Vault 12 different variations in next standard set. Mana Vault Hot Pockets. Well... maybe not the last one.
Day1: bawling on the internet because they banned your expensive cards Day2: time to buy more expensive cards! Timmy’s are the best entertainment ever lmfao 🙈
Imagine if stock brokers had the same vitrolic reaction when an investment went south. Looks to boeing oh shit that happened! If your a singles seller this is a harsh lesson. Invest in cards that are reasonably powerful and relatively niche (rooftop storm, starfield of nyx). Avoid investing in established generic powerhouses that can only stand to lose value. These days those cards are the most prone to losing value. Banning are more regular don't get caught with your pants down.
@@ThisHandleIsNotAvailable. WotC has never had control TO outsource. It has NEVER been in their hands. This isn't even the first time expensive strong cards were banned in commander. I'm guessing you haven't played or been involved for that long.
I haven't played against a Jeweled Lotus, but from the beginning I figured it was too powerful. Stayed away from picking it up because I felt like it would make my casual commander games unfun.
The affected young 30yo+ demographic". Im all for the conspiracy theories, specially the festival in a box one, but dont pull a "think of the kids" because they arent a part of this lol
If what Rudy is saying is true (and I believe it is), this is a home run class-action. One lawyer somewhere will take this to court. If you can prove that they knew the cards would get banned and still print them as marquee’s card, its clear deceptive practices.
Devils advocate here, maybe wizards didnt dump those packs because they knew lotus and crypt were gonna get banned, maybe they got banned because the committee knew a bunch of lotus and crypt got dumped and were gonna become more played. Just a thought.
Basically any new "special guest" that centers on a $100 plus card is immediately tanking to poverty levels and then immediately bought out. Consumer confidence is completely shattered with everything that is over like $50
No, I think the theythems who get mad at a guy for spouting basic financial facts because they waste their money on a Collectible Card game, but are upset that it is a collectible card game are.
Let's see - spend 200 plus dollars on uncollectible collectibles or take my wife to a nice dinner, go to the movies, and still have money left over for beer and if you are so inclined - mind altering substances :).
Something about the double dump and the shared toilet post-Taco, don't smell right. I think what Rudi described is technically only a squential dump and flush. A two cubicle, sequential double dump and flush would make it truly geometric and give use the post-Taco level of trauma and tears we smell right now. Best to hold your breath, back out, get fresh air. Never go back.
I'm not sure why you have to be a libertarian to be intelligent enough to know that corporations are not your friends, and the community is a made up feel good expression? Like, are you serious? Did you forget magic 30 timmy?
@@KyleTremblayTitularKtrey Dude, are you like, stupid? You do realize bans happen ALL THE TIME in Magic, right? You realize reprints happen, right? Cards gain and lose value all the fucking time and LGS have been dealing with it constantly. This is no different, holy god you people are stupid.
This would not be a problem if they printed those cards in commander precons just as sol ring everyone would have one of each if not 50 that is if you are looking for balance in game. Whats that? You like shorprint reprints to sell them at tripple the price? The company is not your friend and reprints should not be more than $20 even if they are staples.
Any opinion on Josh and Rachel from the command zone (largest WOTC sponsored edh channel) being on the RC advisory board while being paid directly by WOTC? Getting paid to shill is fine, but is it still so when you also have the power and advanced knowledge to control the market? Imo this situation would make even Martha Stewart blush at the level of insider trading potential.
@dcon1891 they can say that I know lol. Wotc has an employment contract where they have to report all sales and have freeze times to prevent insider trading. People still do, but at least there is an agreement. The RC and command zone don't have this at all... it's a bad look IMO to have a 3rd party freely altering the market by millions without any oversight while having sponsored influences advising their supposed independent decisions. It's bad optics to me at best, maybe I'm alone in that lol.
Yea, I'm thinking they just ruined what little trust alot of people had for awhile. I personally am stepping back for awhile, the constant releases, SLD, and now this.. Just time to hit the pause button.
I mean, rather than complaining that a group has so much influence over the cost of pieces of cardboard, people should be factoring that influence in to how volatile an investment is seen. The commander rules committee isn't a psyop, or a WotC plant; they're just a group of people with stated goals and stated methodology, neither of which includes protecting the monetary value of any of these cards. Getting mad at WotC for maybe printing these high value cards in recent sets expecting the bans to tank their value is one thing, but complaining because independent entities made decisions that negatively impacted your investment isn't reasonable in Any sphere. Cards whose value is solely propped up by Commander just need to be seen as inherently more risky than WotC controlled formats.
The RC is just a small group of boomer judges who play kitchen table commander on the weekend, that's it. The power they have WotC grants them - if you think the RC and Wizards didn't coordinate on the timing of this ban I think that's extremely gullible. Broadly I don't think the RC are bad guys or anything, they don't want money and they don't really want power - they just want to make the game fun. But if they want to exist in an official capacity then they have no choice but to play ball with WotC. If they don't WotC will just make their own internal commander rules committee and tell them to eat sand.
Time for wizards to release it as a chase card in the next modern or commander product. Then a secret lair, followed by making it an uncommon in the next modern/commander product. Then ban it. That's just how you do business.
Thankfully the 3 preorders I had for the festival in a box are now cancelled. Never ordering MTG product again, I understand some bans, but these were odd, especially the Mana Crypt, VERY unnecessary. I'm 100% proxy from here on out.
@@ctg4818 I was thinking too, without fast mana I bet card draw strategies become much more prevalent. Think about it, if you cant fast mana you can still draw cards to get ahead. One ring is on notice depending on how this goes as well. In that way I cnt believe Thoracle or the ring even made it through this ban.
@@ctg4818 i am personally not smart enough to know what should, and shouldnt go. However, I can see commom sense basis for all of this stuff being banned in the future as well. 🤔 Atleast according to the reasonimg they gave us. How fun is cards like Thoracle, ring, sphynx, rhystic, etc. This whole thing just feels like it could turn in to a rock slide. 🤣🤣 no pun intended.
"You can't double dump."
I can't be the only person that has stood up from the toilet, stomach churned, and sat back down.😅
speaking for a friend, you are not alone....
Too real
Change your diet omg
Hahahahah
pro tip, when you're having a tough session, lean back and forward to get things moving.
It's crazy how many videos I've heard Rudy say they don't care about you. It really should be on the packs like a cigarette warning
It's crazy if you think Rudy cares for you, he's the other side of the same coin
@@davidmorris6254 it is crazy if you think that.
@@davidmorris6254Rudy is in it for Rudy …. Which I can respect
Rudy cares about profits only. But his advice is sound for this one. Value your time more.
Go out, explore, meet more people. Spend your money there. Do not dedicate your money in any hobby as a means of investment.
Hobbies are always money pits first, and you will only recoup some of the value.
@@davidmorris6254 who the hell even said that, dude? 😂 you ok? lol
My proxy Mana Vault has retained 100% of its $00.75 value. Store of value? I think so!
75 cents? Brother my mana vault cost me like 3 cents with Staples printing 13 decks
@@GlassEater420 What about just printing the card from the internet is that allowed in the game?
Guess what, they work just as well for their intended purpose as GAME PIECES, that's what trading cards are.
@@NN-pe6ip Only with the bunko babes custom art
There's literally a million copies of this card it's been reprinted to oblivion.. the people buying the hype 😂
Fool me once…shame on Rudy. Fool me twice……..You can’t get fooled again.
there's a saying in Tennessee
Fool me once, it was Rudy
Fool me twice, Rudy had something to do with this
Fool me again, Rudy probably knew this would happen lol
@@sebastianraducu7850where they put food on their families
Same guy who’s telling me to buy crypto.
Yeaaaaahhhhh dun dun yeeaahahhhhh we wont get fooled again
Lack of regulation is the #1 most profitable thing about the cardboard industry
Stupendously funny that people care enough to get the government involved over cardboard.
Invest in something regulated though
Why would anyone try to stop this when it's so funny to watch idiots invest so much in paper knowing full well this happens?
It's hard to know what to gloat most over. This or shitty nft apes I don't recall the name of.
@@thechoki it's not the investors. this is just regular magic players with cards that they paid a high price for got nuked and wotc probably knew the whole time and didn't care. and why don't you invest in something else? you obviously care some amount about magic or you wouldn't be here, so now i can only think you're a troll who didn't own any of the banned cards and were salty about playgroups that played the card and now you're reveling in other people's misfortune. so... you probably kind of suck.
My question is - why do people even care about "rule" changes. Just ignore them, if they are ignored then they will change it back and nothing will happen.
3 seconds after I read the ban list I knew Mana Vault was going to spike.
Also assumed Grim and Basalt Monolith would see small blips.
Ancient Tomb, Chrome Mox, and Mox Amber are creeping up too.
Can’t wait for the 25$ expedition maps again!
I brought myself a Grim Monolith today, as I don't want to pay tomorrow's prices
city of traitors? ancient tomb?
Sell it after a while @@HeroShowsie
"You can't double dump"
"Dig a hole! Be a carrot! Fuck it!"
Some of your best one liners
"We can go to an F1 Race and hold hands, fuck it". LOL
2X2 Mana Vault on Cardmarket 30 day average is 45 EUR. Cheapest for sale now is 73 EUR. Shit is on.
@@MrThrond i just checked... The cheapest on cardmarket (english, 5th edition) is now 79euro....
Let's w8 one month and see how the supply will dry up. And what the price then will be...
That's already an double in price since you checked 1 hour ago...
Love mtg, will always be a great memory from my childhood. However, the experience from the 90s to the modern era is so different. I truly hope it gets better but I don’t regret one bit ditching my collection in 2020.
You mean to tell me that people who tear up their mana crypts and jeweled lotuses might be erratic people with impulse control issues?
Its always a risk when the playability of something is the reason for its value. If a card gets too expensive just proxy.
Commander was never a format that you had to worry about bans. They have never banned an expensive card.
@@daltonbrasier5491 Banning for the health of the format is more important than the artificial value of a card.
@@daltonbrasier5491 The power 9? Those weren't banned until 2005, 3 years after the first ban list.
@johaadganor1684 true, and you should say it.
@@johaadganor1684 The health of the format matters now? With so many releases every month, you'd think that the health of the format has become secondary to simply milking the cow for as long as they can.
Jeweled Lotus should never have been made in the first place. Mana Crypt was fun... Dunno.
Lions eye diamond should have never been made either but here we are with a $500 card😅
@@leozmaxwelljilliumz3360 To be fair, the Lion's Eye Diamond was bad when it was printed. It took things like Bridge From Below and Dread Return and Narcomoeba to really break it, though even just flashback would get good. (I play the Hearth Elemental in a couple of decks for this same reason - set up reanimation targets and cheaper flashback spells like Lingering Souls and Unburial Rites.)
Why buy any magic product again when you can just proxy and avoid the risk?
Because the first requirement with magic is being dumb with your money. I dont feel bad for these suckers
You could also just not spend multiple hundreds of dollars on a card that isn’t on the reserve list
Proxying for years and loving it, once sleeved no one can tell and no one cares
Bro it kinda sounds like this new group of players thinks that EDH is the only format available in mtg, and they didn't realize it's like mostly a borderline joke format made to be kitchen table for fun. Other formats don't even really respect us or take us seriously lmao
Like they dont do deck checks or care if you proxy in most commander places man. This is kinda why so many people proxy this format. What we saw today is why real meta CEDH players basically demand you proxy and tell you to NOT buy the expensive cards even if you can afford them because they know how this goes.
Modern, standard, pioneer you actually have to use the real cards as part of the rules but you're playing the wild west of mtg formats here, and in the wild west this type of thing can happen
@@joshhutchins6747have a guy in the playgroup that proxys.
Yes you can tell.
It's just ugly, but you do you. I don't have to look at your board and just enjoy mine 🤷♂️
Remember when it was called edh and we made that shit up as we went
There was always a ban list.
Imo these cards should've been banned day 1
We still make it up. The banlist used to just be cards we’d joke that made Sheldon salty and only had to respect it at the LGSs that cared about banlists. It’s a whole new monster now, all of reddit seems to think people only ever play pickup games at an LGS. I’d like to see the real numbers, I could be wrong but I wouldn’t be surprised if it isn’t 4 to 1. There’s twitter polls about the ban but who tf has a Twitter account anymore? I don’t.
Yeah, those were better days
And Wizards didn't puke cards straight into the "format", yeah. I miss those days of actually finding creative uses for cards that already existed.
@@SlongestKongest yeah instead they used them to sell tons of products before banning them. 😂
Your warning about the time wasted and how no one is calling us as individuals is very valuable. Please spread the word.
Have a good day folks
Remember to breathe through the stress
If you’ve been collecting since the 90s you know how the singles market works. Go back to old issues of Inquest and Scrye and look at the Top 10s and what they were selling for then, and then what they’re going for now. Off the top of my head I can think of Two Headed Dragon, Cadaverous Bloom, Jesters Cap, Emperor Crocodile, Utopia Tree, Lin Sivvi, Absorb, so many cards that were selling for high dollar when they were contemporary, now you can get for like $1. Moral of the story, collect singles because you love it and for play.
Amen to that. As I have been saying in others.
Hobbies are not investments first, you buy to have fun in mind, NOT to make money.
Right? If it wasn't printed before revised or isn't on the reserved list, you're not buying it for collectible value, plain and simple.
@@nothingbutstaticvery true
I packed up over 30 years worth of cards last night. Ill never sell them, but Im done buying and playing MTG.
Exactly, same here. Been collecting since 3rd edition, spending thousands every year...no more, all done. In the process of packing it all up and to shed it goes. Been wanting to get into buying precious metals for years but could never afford it. I can now...thanks wotc and FUCK OFF too. No more of my $$$ for you.
Golden rule for edh should be buy the cheap stuff and proxy the pricey stuff until they reprint it. No one can do a thing to stop you
For a ban? Overreacting much?
Bullshit. There's no way you're just boxing them up forever to neither play nor sell. You're obviously doing one or the other with them.
They will just ban mana vault next.
dont say the quiet part out loud timmy
NOSTRODAMUS?!
I hope so
Ding ding ding! Now you get the flowchart!
No, come on, pay attention to how this works. first they reprinte it a couple times then they ban it.
Optics are EVERYTHING, and WOTC is being super sketchy
WotC literally has nothing to do with the ban list in commander, that stuff is out of their hands.
@@fallendeusu regarded?
@@frychicken1337 Are you? The RC predates commander. It predates WotC even doing anything with commander by almost a decade.
@@fallendeus
Yup, and Haliburton got all those sweet government contracts legitimately with no shenanigans involving Dick Cheny.
Also, corruption totally doesn't exist.
Enron.
Bank Bailouts.
If you like your doctor you can keep your doctor.
Can I interest you in a better health subscription?
@go_rilla262 not everything is a conspiracy theory as much as you want it to be
I am so fucking disappointed by this. My desire to buy expensive cards is gone. Keeping what I have and not buying shit.
If the next masters set has a Mana Vault in it, we riot!
It won’t likely have it. Planning is always 1.5-3 years out.
I mean why not? It can still be played in Vintage no? We could get a another Vintage Master set.
Its so gonna happen
Will not make a difference WotC will just play Bubble Matrix.
And then they ban it 6 months later 😂
Taco futures in Florida are down big on this news. However, there are less toilet repairs planned.
Crazy how people see how easily the price can skyrocket and plummet then decide the best course of action is to buy into the hype LOL
I found ths gem in the FAQ:
"5. Why didn’t you ban cards one at a time and see how that went?
The decision to ban multiple cards at the same time (Dockside, Crypt, and Lotus) was based on the belief that it sends a stronger message about what we’re trying to achieve"🤣
My God that is terrible. That whole response was a spit in the face to collectors and players.
@@theundergrad5994"collectors" read "speculators"
Message definitely heard and we hate them.
They didn't want someone to have an explosive start. Land, Sol ring, arcane signet . Turn 2 now has 5 mana. Their argument is invalid. The RC should have an Actual player based voting system so Everyone can vote on bans
@@theundergrad5994 casuals player are happy that those cards are banned dont worry, the few "investors" crying are seen by most people as the same stupid NFT bros, people laught at them instead of feeling sorry
Im so on the verge to sell my whole collection.
I'll buy! You looking for 10, 20%? Since they're going to zero that's a pretty good deal
@@Consleazy naw, ill give that card away to a friend before i sell it at such a low value
@@shaunburns2179dude has both con and sleaze in their name says all you need to know about them 😂👌
People discovering cardboard is actually not worth more than cardboard. 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Double Masters 2022 sealed price has been slowly climbing in the last year 🤔
And I dont really see this as a win for 2X2 at all since it also has Dockside... Mana Vault has quite a bit more work to do if its supposed to even out the EV that has been lost by dockside plumetting.
When the storm surge from Helene mysteriously targets rudy's basement full of crypts and lotuses, will he use the pre- or post- ban replacement value for the insurance claim?
Dig a hole, be a carrot! Lol, my new favorite Rudy expression.
Haha!
Commander as a featured format is the worst thing that could have ever happened to MTG.
Yes. Over the past 5 years I've gone from casual games with friends to maybe playing twice a year because everyone has to have net decks for "tournaments".
Well that and universe beyond.
Completely the reason why I quit the game.
It ruins commander for those who love commander and it ruins magic for those, like me, who dislike commander.
How about those Commander Precons on last Modern Masters?
I personally don't give a single cent to Wotc since All Will Be One.
since they included WOE in the festival in a box, I wouldn’t be surprised if Rhsyic and Smothering are chopped next
@@CRACKINGPACKSMTG smothering is like 4 orders of magnitude worse than Rhystic. They won’t ban it unless they end up banning a bunch of Timmy’s first haymakers. Rhystic, sure.
Proxy bros report in
I am looking to sell all my cards and now only play with proxies
@@batch2109A lot of people have been doing that in my area.
Anymore I will proxy any card that costs more than $1. The max I will spend on any commander deck is $100. I play for fun, not to get rich off my collection in 20 years.
reporting losses of 0 dollars captain
@@bigdeuce66 My proxies cost $2 (high quality prints) so under that I rather just buy the real card.
Imagine playing Commander in 2024 and not proxying most of your deck
I deleted 40 plus mtg channels kept rudy and one anyone that deals with oldschool.
Selling all my non 9394 cards and all rl cards . F this 😂 this is only the start . Guess im buying a new set of golf clubs
Nice, I've literally heard this once or twice a year since I started playing a decade ago 😅 it's never panned out. 99% of collections are safe from these types of swings, lots of cards are still going up every day
I understand the remorse and loss of everyone that had these cards, especially the lotus. But I honestly feel you had a large position is them and this is whats driving this vid, and the fact its a hot topic right now. I agree with you on all these topics and points you are bringing up. But also those cards were not healthy for the game. They were mistakes when they were made. i.e. Dockside and lotus and Nadu.
Hasbro hasnt cared about anyone since the jump. I atleast felt Wotc used to.
I bought proxies of these cards, planning on buying them when I had the funds. But maybe proxies are the way to go now for anything over 10$. I'm only out 2$ rather than over 200$. Food for thought. I know this doesn't go with your idea/mentallity on the game. But its better for the consumer as a whole for just getting these "Game Pieces" and playing.
Love the vids,
Cheers
I'm willing to pay more than 10-20 for actually interesting limited stuff, like a secret lair artist collab or whatever, but yes. No one should have been paying $80 for dockside unless they were playing at tournaments. Just proxy that shit.
WotC has been pricing their "premium" products according to the secondary market prices (which they officially ignore) for years. It's no coincidence that sets with "big" reprints had a higher booster price. So Rudy is completely right when he says that you can either have high booster prices because the cards you open are valuable, or you have cheap boosters with cheap game pieces.
On that note:
MH3 had fantastic EV. Opened a case of collectors, sold off loads of singles in the first week, made about 80% of my money back and kept an almost complete set for myself.
Same with Bloomburrow.
Now with Duskmourne I am struggling to reach 50%. Might be just unlucky pulls, but over a complete case that is not likely. So looks to me as a bad EV set, despite all the hype on the card strength.
It’s only a little funny because Yugioh players have to deal with this like every quarter (why I stopped playing and only play Magic). Happens to Magic once in 5-10 years and it’s apocalyptic. Tour Guide from the Underworld anyone ? 2011, new card is 600 bucks for a play set banned in a couple of months lol.
I feel you, I feel you. Yugioh is the worst of the big three in balancing.
I agree with Rudy. I am not one to forget. I ran my own store for 8 years & closed with Covid 2020. I remember reducing the amount of MTG in my store because of how poorly WotC supported stores as a consumer I dont buy magic anymore. I still watch Rudy & laugh everytime WotC & Hasbro do things like this it happens so often I am glad I enjoy playing with what I have but refuse giving them another cent.
This is 100% because MTG refuses to stop power creeping.
Just reminds of a video you made a really long time ago that literally said if you are trying to invest the only safe place is old sealed and reserved list cards, anything at is open to reprint is always open to getting crushed.
Pulled a borderless Jeweled Lotus from a Festival Box. Was happy about. Was.
First time?
Wotc knew ans had no issues
Sell it on eb. Bids at $180+ currently
@@honestabe411 - of course not. Doesn't make it any better though.
@@Surface48 Those bids are about to get canceled. People are listing foil borderless for $90 BIN and it'll probably go even lower at this rate. This card got absolutely destroyed.
Don’t forget the ancillary cards effected by this. Sylvans paradise, sea king blessing, and the alchemist blue card from onslaught are all going to zero cuz of the nadu ban. Mox opal is the next mana rock up in commander so it will probably climb in value; as you already mentioned mana vault, grim monolith will climb as well. Any clone effects (usually used in cEDH to target dockside) will drop in price, although only one was very expensive (the universes beyond one). I expect mox opal to get the most benefit in positive price action.
Mox amber is seeing a huge uptick as well.
Genuine question, why not invest in like... stocks instead of cardboard?
It's just a way to diversify and have fun. Lots of Timmy's dump into cardboard, but even rudy has stated multiple times you shouldn't be dumping money into this stuff unless you're already maxing 401k/ira, have real estate, etc.
Most of us do both
This question, common as it is, fails to identify the 2 categories of people who “invest” in high end cards. You have the collector/rudy type people who speculate primarily, and you have the players who want to play powerful formats and buy expensive cards that hold value in order to do so. Basically the guys who have dual lands because they want to play with them and there’s a pretty stable market for them. A lot of us know the cost is absurdly high for these cards, but it used to be that even for non-reserved list evergreen staples, prices were stable for a long time. I do not buy cards anymore because I can’t afford to sink thousands of dollars into cardboard that is worthless in a few weeks. That’s why I quit Yugioh (as well as the absurd power creep). If players don’t have a lot of money to play the game in the first place (most everybody doesn’t, any the people who do often neglect their finances in some other way to get their cardboard fix), why would they waste money on expensive cards that could become worthless at a moment’s notice?
Also, this comment is primarily focused on legacy/modern/pioneer players. You can roll up to a commander pod with a roll of TP with the names of cards written on each of the squares and ask the other Timmies to play with you and they will. This whole implosion is the funniest thing ever because everything in commander is made up and the points don’t matter.
Is this a call to get rid of card sleeves? I am sure card making companies would love that as the cards won't last so they can print replacements out the ass
I have deeper knowledge of cardboard
Festival in a box speculation is a tremendous point!
I’m selling everything. I’m sick of getting burned.
As a yugioh player I just want to drop a first time meme here
Ikr. Yugioh cards have a shelf life.
Yhea, i don’t see why magic players are crying about it, the card is banned yet it still exist and see play in other formats so it remains as something with valor…
Also I see funny how Hasbro make that card for probably cents or less and the greedy player base gave it a inflated price because of yes, you know a player base is weird when you buy cards first for an investment first and then playable valor second
yeah look how good yugioh is doing lol
It's because Magic the Gathering isn't like Yugioh. MtG is a luxury card game that actually has value whether you want to believe it or not. People are losing there minds because RC and WOTC did the one thing they should have never done.
@@joshuajinsu2559 that’s an elitist perspective. Commander exist for the game not investors. If cards being removed from legality affects those prices than it was a poor investment. Diversify your portfolio so you don’t take an L. The RC never promised they would never ban these cards and there should be no problem with removing cards from the format which should not be there.
"The reign of people not related to OUR card game" has got to be the most ironic statement coming from him lmao.
The idea is to phase out the old cards, so with Fire design, you must acquire new ones to keep up.
Hypothetically for those that play commander, you can just stop recognizing the formats current banned restricted list announcements.
You know its a situation when Rudy post a video before noon.
Atleast in my timezone
Stay the course! Welcome to Poundtown, home of the Thunderdome
Love you matt
All this means... Mana Vault Secret Lair. Mana Vault 12 different variations in next standard set. Mana Vault Hot Pockets. Well... maybe not the last one.
What about the trees, the endless supply of banned proxies, and the person who kept a warehouse full
It was 100% planned. You cannot convince me otherwise.
The double dump got me flashing back to Super Troopers "I'm already pulled over! I can't pull over anymore!"
Dont forget the costco boxes with commander masters as the value product/booster- they 100% planned it.
Thanks for reminding me. That pack was one of the saving graces of those bundles, now it's just another product to pass by.
Damn I bought each version right before this shit dropped
My fiance got a jewelee lotus out of the bonus last week. Feels like a comedy skit
You bought magic boxes at Costco? Dude I can get a better deal from the guy who runs the hotdog stand out back I swear
Yeah, I pulled a jeweled lotus from that pack 😂
Wotc has too many of its eggs in the EDH basket. If Commander ever fails, it would ruin them. But hey, Wotc loves to shit where they eat.
Day1: bawling on the internet because they banned your expensive cards
Day2: time to buy more expensive cards!
Timmy’s are the best entertainment ever lmfao 🙈
Imagine if stock brokers had the same vitrolic reaction when an investment went south. Looks to boeing oh shit that happened!
If your a singles seller this is a harsh lesson. Invest in cards that are reasonably powerful and relatively niche (rooftop storm, starfield of nyx). Avoid investing in established generic powerhouses that can only stand to lose value.
These days those cards are the most prone to losing value. Banning are more regular don't get caught with your pants down.
The taco market is crashing!
Excellent points Rudy. I actually resubscribed because of this video. Sold out 2 years ago, really good decision.
Wizards has perfected the rug pull.
WotC literally has nothing to do with the ban list in commander, that stuff is out of their hands.
@@fallendeus
Very convenient to outsource the market manipulation and controversy to a 3rd party.
@@ThisHandleIsNotAvailable. WotC has never had control TO outsource. It has NEVER been in their hands. This isn't even the first time expensive strong cards were banned in commander. I'm guessing you haven't played or been involved for that long.
@@ThisHandleIsNotAvailable. Read a book and stop gaslighting
This is why I always sold my JLotus' the second I pulled em and traded them for Retro games. 1 format cards that are that pushed are bad investments
I Remember when Arcane Signet was $100 lol
I’m just going to keep using them
Gigachad
I traded in a mana vault to buy a dockside before the ban. Love to see it.
Oh you can double dump. You just can’t triple dump a double dump Lloyd.
What do you mean random people not related to your card game, these are prominent members of the community.
MTG is a game I play for fun. Couldn't be happier with the changes.
Me too
kay, but that is not enough for a collectible card game to last in the long term.
i bathe in speculator's tears! cry more!
Why? Rudy will still be more successful and all you did was pretend you are winning by mocking failure
@@fuwa9616 sweet, sweet, nerd rage, bring it!
I'll only play cockatrice and sharpie draft from now on.
It wasnt a disaster. Its probably one of the best things done for the health of the format in years.
I haven't played against a Jeweled Lotus, but from the beginning I figured it was too powerful. Stayed away from picking it up because I felt like it would make my casual commander games unfun.
Your the kind of guy who closes the fridge door with your hip.
@@robertmendez8383 thats amazing lol!
Same, honestly.
Right when they almost had consumer confidence back, they hit me right in the taco sack.
Getting a glimpse into this insane parallel make believe world is fascinating
whatever the situation, your sarcasm, analogy and figure of speech always wins my heart 😆😆😆
The affected young 30yo+ demographic".
Im all for the conspiracy theories, specially the festival in a box one, but dont pull a "think of the kids" because they arent a part of this lol
When mana vault was like $8-$10 for revised in 2007, I had an artist custoom.extend the art and love it. Love that card.
If what Rudy is saying is true (and I believe it is), this is a home run class-action. One lawyer somewhere will take this to court. If you can prove that they knew the cards would get banned and still print them as marquee’s card, its clear deceptive practices.
I predicted this 2 years ago. I sold both of my Jeweled Lotus copies last year for $100 each. My Mana Crypt is a proxy. I finally won this time.
Now Mana Vault is going up? Cool, I'll just order a $2 proxy of that, then.
Devils advocate here, maybe wizards didnt dump those packs because they knew lotus and crypt were gonna get banned, maybe they got banned because the committee knew a bunch of lotus and crypt got dumped and were gonna become more played. Just a thought.
If Mana Vault shows up as the next "special guest" in one of the next few upcoming sets, conspiracy becomes reality.
Basically any new "special guest" that centers on a $100 plus card is immediately tanking to poverty levels and then immediately bought out. Consumer confidence is completely shattered with everything that is over like $50
I feel like Rudy is exemplary of everything that is wrong with the magic comunity.
No, I think the theythems who get mad at a guy for spouting basic financial facts because they waste their money on a Collectible Card game, but are upset that it is a collectible card game are.
@fuwa9616 does it get exhausting trying to shoehorn a trans comment into litteraly every unrelated thing you talk about?
I literally just traded my left testicle for a Textured Jeweled Lotus last week.
Oh my FUGGIN
Okay so how many Mana Vaults is the other one worth?
Six months? I think everyone will have forgotten in six days. (Other than the outraged 1% screaming on the internet.)
Let's see - spend 200 plus dollars on uncollectible collectibles or take my wife to a nice dinner, go to the movies, and still have money left over for beer and if you are so inclined - mind altering substances :).
Stick to Pokemon and be safe
@@co_snowy Eww
Mate mind altering substances is this cardboard crack we call magic the gathering
@@co_snowy lol, yea pokemon is immune to a ban decision nuking card value since no one plays the game
Go to the movies? You must have terrible taste to actually think that going out to see a modern movie is a good experience.
11:08 is wild in x2 speed
Hahaha it really is 😂
So true
Something about the double dump and the shared toilet post-Taco, don't smell right.
I think what Rudi described is technically only a squential dump and flush. A two cubicle, sequential double dump and flush would make it truly geometric and give use the post-Taco level of trauma and tears we smell right now.
Best to hold your breath, back out, get fresh air. Never go back.
I quit magic the gathering! no MTg anymore!
Play Flesh and Blood man
Who knew that a libertarian Floridian would look down on community?
I'm not sure why you have to be a libertarian to be intelligent enough to know that corporations are not your friends, and the community is a made up feel good expression? Like, are you serious? Did you forget magic 30 timmy?
@@fuwa9616 if your community is “made up”, I feel bad for you son.
Can't we just tell the committee to f-off and create our own demand of cards?
For those of us that that have been buying booster boxes for last thirty years doing so has become very unappealing.
watching speculators cry about losing money and blame everyone else never gets old, no matter the domain
What speculators? Huh?
@@PopoTCG Do you know what channel you're watching right now?
By speculators you actually mean the local gsme stores and people who joined after covid or really like commander.
@@KyleTremblayTitularKtrey No, I mean speculators.
@@KyleTremblayTitularKtrey Dude, are you like, stupid? You do realize bans happen ALL THE TIME in Magic, right? You realize reprints happen, right? Cards gain and lose value all the fucking time and LGS have been dealing with it constantly. This is no different, holy god you people are stupid.
This would not be a problem if they printed those cards in commander precons just as sol ring everyone would have one of each if not 50 that is if you are looking for balance in game. Whats that? You like shorprint reprints to sell them at tripple the price? The company is not your friend and reprints should not be more than $20 even if they are staples.
Any opinion on Josh and Rachel from the command zone (largest WOTC sponsored edh channel) being on the RC advisory board while being paid directly by WOTC?
Getting paid to shill is fine, but is it still so when you also have the power and advanced knowledge to control the market? Imo this situation would make even Martha Stewart blush at the level of insider trading potential.
The CAG was not advised on the decision. Allegedly
@dcon1891 they can say that I know lol. Wotc has an employment contract where they have to report all sales and have freeze times to prevent insider trading. People still do, but at least there is an agreement. The RC and command zone don't have this at all... it's a bad look IMO to have a 3rd party freely altering the market by millions without any oversight while having sponsored influences advising their supposed independent decisions. It's bad optics to me at best, maybe I'm alone in that lol.
Yea, I'm thinking they just ruined what little trust alot of people had for awhile. I personally am stepping back for awhile, the constant releases, SLD, and now this.. Just time to hit the pause button.
I mean, rather than complaining that a group has so much influence over the cost of pieces of cardboard, people should be factoring that influence in to how volatile an investment is seen. The commander rules committee isn't a psyop, or a WotC plant; they're just a group of people with stated goals and stated methodology, neither of which includes protecting the monetary value of any of these cards. Getting mad at WotC for maybe printing these high value cards in recent sets expecting the bans to tank their value is one thing, but complaining because independent entities made decisions that negatively impacted your investment isn't reasonable in Any sphere. Cards whose value is solely propped up by Commander just need to be seen as inherently more risky than WotC controlled formats.
If they wanted money they would have bought moxen and then unbanned them lol
The real issue isn't the presumed value , the lost of in game value.
The RC is just a small group of boomer judges who play kitchen table commander on the weekend, that's it. The power they have WotC grants them - if you think the RC and Wizards didn't coordinate on the timing of this ban I think that's extremely gullible. Broadly I don't think the RC are bad guys or anything, they don't want money and they don't really want power - they just want to make the game fun. But if they want to exist in an official capacity then they have no choice but to play ball with WotC. If they don't WotC will just make their own internal commander rules committee and tell them to eat sand.
Time for wizards to release it as a chase card in the next modern or commander product. Then a secret lair, followed by making it an uncommon in the next modern/commander product. Then ban it. That's just how you do business.
hasbro doesn't want some of the money they want all of your money
Except they have nothing to do with the ban list for commander. WotC has no control over that.
You're an idiot if you think WOTC would let the RC ban these cards while actively selling them in their in-print rotation.
Thankfully the 3 preorders I had for the festival in a box are now cancelled. Never ordering MTG product again, I understand some bans, but these were odd, especially the Mana Crypt, VERY unnecessary.
I'm 100% proxy from here on out.
Mana vault getting banned next 😂😂
Ancient tomb also needs to go
@@ctg4818 I was thinking too, without fast mana I bet card draw strategies become much more prevalent. Think about it, if you cant fast mana you can still draw cards to get ahead. One ring is on notice depending on how this goes as well. In that way I cnt believe Thoracle or the ring even made it through this ban.
@@ctg4818 i am personally not smart enough to know what should, and shouldnt go. However, I can see commom sense basis for all of this stuff being banned in the future as well. 🤔 Atleast according to the reasonimg they gave us. How fun is cards like Thoracle, ring, sphynx, rhystic, etc. This whole thing just feels like it could turn in to a rock slide. 🤣🤣 no pun intended.