Politics is part of life and the point that Klavan makes is that nobody should be cancelled for art. Beauty has moved and will continue to move people even if you don't like the story.
If a story is propaganda then I guess we are all propagandists for just even imagining a hierarchy of values and the end result of thay thinking is the rejection of stories and order in our world and beauty itself in the end, what kind of short sighted thinking is that?
Art is a reflection of culture and culture flows into politics. Therefore, they are related. If limit expression through art then you limit freedom of conscience
Yes but there are some things we should reject because of the effect it has on us, ugly buildings cause us to become detached from where we live and can devastate communities (this is slight exaggeration but apporopiate) as communities are often specific, I agree beauty in of itself is amazing and can be good I think the point Nic is making is that story enhances it, a lot of beautiful churches and mosques, and Shinto shrines are often beautiful even more so than normal because they attach themselves to a story or a canon of beauty in other words
Nic, I'm not an artist but I think you are dead wrong when you say that "beauty by itself is just not good enough" and explain to us that MOST painters lack a plot or narrative to their work. First, who are you to critique the works of "most" artists? Does the work of Jackson Pollack, Claude Monet, Georgia O'Keefe, or Gustav Klimt (to name just a few) lack value or substance just because it invites the viewer to enjoy blurry water lilies, labial blooms, geometric abstractions, or "splatters of paint" on canvas? Can we dismiss the works of Picasso, Dali, or Warhol because we think melting clocks and soup cans are "stupid"? BEAUTY is in the eye of the beholder - it's color, texture, depth, flow - it doesn't have to "mean" anything! I used to just sit and stare at a lava lamp or Christmas lights on a tree when I was a kid (no, I wasn't high) - just beautiful! You have become an intellectual snob, an artistic elitist with your man bun and "oil ground prepared linen" telling the rest of us what we should and shouldn't be creating or enjoying. Please rethink your stance on this. ART and MUSIC are the most primal forms of human expression - how it makes us FEEL is the whole and only point!
Agree! I'm a musician (I also paint, but music is my main art form), and if we were to translate the views expressed by Nic and the other Nerdrum students the only "true" form of music would be classical music, played by classically trained musicians. Sure classical music is wonderful, and Bach is one of my favorite composers of all time. But to say all modern music sucks would be an extremely ignorant thing to say. I play a lot of free improvised music, music that perhaps would be equivalent of an abstract expressionist painting. But to perform this kind of music well I'm helped by my five years of studying music on a high level. Everything, whether it's abstract or figurative has its own craft, its own techniques. I've tried painting some abstract stuff, but I can't do it (unfortunately). I could however paint a fairly good portrait. Nic and the the other students of Nerdrum more or less copy him. Nerdum has a unique voice, but from what I've seen not very many of his students have, and they don't seem to care to much about that, which of course is fine. But I think to be human is to explore, to find new ways to do things.
A few years ago, I saw a large, nearly empty white canvas, with an incomplete, wonky semicircle outline in the middle selling for about ten grand. I'm willing to bet at least that much that this self-promoter posing as an artist not only isn't cancelled, but sells much work to this day. Marketing, connections and political clout count a great deal more than decent content. Whether it's the semicircle thing or the multicolored busy work, both artists deserve to display and sell their work to anyone interested in them. Neither are my taste, but that's irrelevant. This is America. If Andy Warhol can make it as an artist, anyone can--if political biases stay out of it.
Seeing artists attack artists is like listening to the conversations happening around you while having a poo in a high school bathroom. So, is Banksy's art contained within the finite timeline in which it was created?
Huh? What does that even mean? Banksy is a high-end graffiti artist - WTF does "finite timeline" have to do with anything? Are we talking quantum mechanics or general space-time relativity here? Just listen to yourself - you people slay me...
@@dankamp2872 I can’t control how to receive my message, and if it takes your mind there, so be it. You said when an artist creates art with a political agenda in mind it limits the art’s ability to be timeless. Again, I write, draw, and perform. But, because I wouldn’t want to be placed in the same carton as most of the pretentious idiots that wear the artist label as loud as possible, I find it hard to do so. It’s just another form of hypocritical intolerance. The message you were trying to ridicule was about how anyone that doesn’t send a certain message than they will be attacked by…well, watch the video again while sitting in front of a mirror.
@@pequod6504 "You said when an artist creates art with a political agenda in mind it limits the art’s ability to be timeless." Um, I didn't actually say anything like that. Your reply is gibberish fueled by hashish, ecstasy, or psilocybic mushrooms. The VIDEO that I watched while SOBER was an elitist attack on artists who apparently don't have the approved "narrative" or "plot" to go with their material - my premise of "beauty for beauty's sake" is both valid and correct. What I asked YOU was to clarify whatever the f-ck you were babbling on about Banksy. You didn't make any sense then, and you are making less sense now.
@@dankamp2872 I think you’re a little too close to it, man. Btw, I am always sober. Anyway, it’s ok that you don’t get it. Others do. And others will. Such is life. Such is art. God bless, brother. Artists put themselves out there, and that leaves a piece of them vulnerable to criticism. You did the same, with what most of your audience, as you have clearly scene in the responses, thought was pretentious babble passing itself off as something more than more white noise. It’s bound to happen. Don’t lose sleep over it. I doubt anyone else will.
You know what sucks? It's that you don't even try. You never try to understand the Art you deem "nonsensical". If it dosen't ahere to standards from the classical period, you're out. It's so closed minded.
How can storytelling be missing in a beautiful work of art? Really if someone painted a landscape and it was beautiful, what is the story from a viewer's perspective other than that the artist was there to witness something uniquely beautiful. Shouldn't art speak for itself.
People get blacklisted or punished in the workplace for speaking out about political issues in public, or online. You don't have to make "conservative art" (nobody does that), to get blacklisted as an artist, who's also conservative. All you have to do is Tweet the "wrong opinion", and all of the sudden activists are calling your workplace, harassing advertisers etc. You're not allowed to be pro-police. You're not allowed to disagree with sex change operations for children. You're not allowed to disagree with facilitating heroin addicts who shoot dope in the middle of the street, without being accused of racism etc. It's not the work itself that gets conservatives blacklisted. They're simply having opinions on other issues that are taking place in their community, and activists will attack their place of work, or write hit pieces about them, slandering and defaming their character. If you don't know how this works, that's okay. But, Klavan does know how this works, so in this instance he knows more than you.
Niko, if you make a bunch of straw-man arguments like this and polite society rolls their eyes at you and correctly choses to ignore then no you haven't been "blacklisted".
@@NikoBased What's 2015 have to do with anything? This is just the billiionth iteration of the same old reactionary grift: artist with no talent gets ignored and pulls the "I'm being cancelled" card. It's pathetic.
@@markhamilton7291 Because you're not listening. People are telling you what's happening to them, and you're simply calling them all "crazy" or you tell them they're pathetic. That's the problem. We are way past that. If you want to ignore what all of these people are telling you, and shrug them off as paranoid or crazy, you're free to do so. If you want to better understand what people are experiencing, and help solve problems, I would recommend listening. You have no idea what these people are going through because it's not happening to you. How would you like it if you were assaulted on your way to work on Monday, and everybody said you were just looking for attention, and you were pathetic? That's essentially what you're doing by refusing to listen to people when they share what's happening to them. You're the problem.
What a stupid argument. By now everyone should know that room in big NY galleries is made available for whatever abstract artist the gallery owners wager they'll make the most money representing. It's then bought by extremely wealthy people purely for it's resale value, and rarely for any other reason. If you get into a "Big gallery in NY" it's through who you know and can ingratiate yourself with.
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
Politics is part of life and the point that Klavan makes is that nobody should be cancelled for art. Beauty has moved and will continue to move people even if you don't like the story.
Beauty can move people but if it’s properly placed where it belongs within an overarching story it’s significantly more powerful
@@NicThurman Is there a fine line here between story and propaganda? Maybe the latter is a distraction to conveying meaningful character and story?
If a story is propaganda then I guess we are all propagandists for just even imagining a hierarchy of values and the end result of thay thinking is the rejection of stories and order in our world and beauty itself in the end, what kind of short sighted thinking is that?
"'Beauty is truth' and 'truth beauty' therefore the guilty party is life for being neither 'beautiful' nor 'true'".
- Douglas Adams
Art is a reflection of culture and culture flows into politics. Therefore, they are related. If limit expression through art then you limit freedom of conscience
Politics is a subset and not as timeless
I feel like there is nothing more timeless than conveying philosophy or ideas through art.
Yes but there are some things we should reject because of the effect it has on us, ugly buildings cause us to become detached from where we live and can devastate communities (this is slight exaggeration but apporopiate) as communities are often specific, I agree beauty in of itself is amazing and can be good I think the point Nic is making is that story enhances it, a lot of beautiful churches and mosques, and Shinto shrines are often beautiful even more so than normal because they attach themselves to a story or a canon of beauty in other words
Nic, I'm not an artist but I think you are dead wrong when you say that "beauty by itself is just not good enough" and explain to us that MOST painters lack a plot or narrative to their work. First, who are you to critique the works of "most" artists? Does the work of Jackson Pollack, Claude Monet, Georgia O'Keefe, or Gustav Klimt (to name just a few) lack value or substance just because it invites the viewer to enjoy blurry water lilies, labial blooms, geometric abstractions, or "splatters of paint" on canvas? Can we dismiss the works of Picasso, Dali, or Warhol because we think melting clocks and soup cans are "stupid"? BEAUTY is in the eye of the beholder - it's color, texture, depth, flow - it doesn't have to "mean" anything! I used to just sit and stare at a lava lamp or Christmas lights on a tree when I was a kid (no, I wasn't high) - just beautiful! You have become an intellectual snob, an artistic elitist with your man bun and "oil ground prepared linen" telling the rest of us what we should and shouldn't be creating or enjoying. Please rethink your stance on this. ART and MUSIC are the most primal forms of human expression - how it makes us FEEL is the whole and only point!
I couldn't agree with this more! Beauty is valuable all on its own.
Agree! I'm a musician (I also paint, but music is my main art form), and if we were to translate the views expressed by Nic and the other Nerdrum students the only "true" form of music would be classical music, played by classically trained musicians. Sure classical music is wonderful, and Bach is one of my favorite composers of all time. But to say all modern music sucks would be an extremely ignorant thing to say. I play a lot of free improvised music, music that perhaps would be equivalent of an abstract expressionist painting. But to perform this kind of music well I'm helped by my five years of studying music on a high level. Everything, whether it's abstract or figurative has its own craft, its own techniques. I've tried painting some abstract stuff, but I can't do it (unfortunately). I could however paint a fairly good portrait. Nic and the the other students of Nerdrum more or less copy him. Nerdum has a unique voice, but from what I've seen not very many of his students have, and they don't seem to care to much about that, which of course is fine. But I think to be human is to explore, to find new ways to do things.
A few years ago, I saw a large, nearly empty white canvas, with an incomplete, wonky semicircle outline in the middle selling for about ten grand. I'm willing to bet at least that much that this self-promoter posing as an artist not only isn't cancelled, but sells much work to this day. Marketing, connections and political clout count a great deal more than decent content. Whether it's the semicircle thing or the multicolored busy work, both artists deserve to display and sell their work to anyone interested in them. Neither are my taste, but that's irrelevant. This is America. If Andy Warhol can make it as an artist, anyone can--if political biases stay out of it.
That might have been my awful college professor
@@noname-nu6oo I hope you didn't get a bad grade for doing something worthwhile and pretty.
@@megalopolis2015 exactly and he was a bad teacher. He used to get students in circles to talk bad about other student's work behind their backs.
@@noname-nu6oo Ew. That's unprofessional, discouraging, and yucky, overall. I'm sorry you went through that.
@@megalopolis2015 Thank you, yea for sure.
Seeing artists attack artists is like listening to the conversations happening around you while having a poo in a high school bathroom. So, is Banksy's art contained within the finite timeline in which it was created?
O.K. best reply!
Huh? What does that even mean? Banksy is a high-end graffiti artist - WTF does "finite timeline" have to do with anything? Are we talking quantum mechanics or general space-time relativity here? Just listen to yourself - you people slay me...
@@dankamp2872 I can’t control how to receive my message, and if it takes your mind there, so be it. You said when an artist creates art with a political agenda in mind it limits the art’s ability to be timeless. Again, I write, draw, and perform. But, because I wouldn’t want to be placed in the same carton as most of the pretentious idiots that wear the artist label as loud as possible, I find it hard to do so. It’s just another form of hypocritical intolerance. The message you were trying to ridicule was about how anyone that doesn’t send a certain message than they will be attacked by…well, watch the video again while sitting in front of a mirror.
@@pequod6504 "You said when an artist creates art with a political agenda in mind it limits the art’s ability to be timeless." Um, I didn't actually say anything like that. Your reply is gibberish fueled by hashish, ecstasy, or psilocybic mushrooms. The VIDEO that I watched while SOBER was an elitist attack on artists who apparently don't have the approved "narrative" or "plot" to go with their material - my premise of "beauty for beauty's sake" is both valid and correct. What I asked YOU was to clarify whatever the f-ck you were babbling on about Banksy. You didn't make any sense then, and you are making less sense now.
@@dankamp2872 I think you’re a little too close to it, man. Btw, I am always sober. Anyway, it’s ok that you don’t get it. Others do. And others will. Such is life. Such is art. God bless, brother. Artists put themselves out there, and that leaves a piece of them vulnerable to criticism. You did the same, with what most of your audience, as you have clearly scene in the responses, thought was pretentious babble passing itself off as something more than more white noise. It’s bound to happen. Don’t lose sleep over it. I doubt anyone else will.
You know what sucks? It's that you don't even try. You never try to understand the Art you deem "nonsensical". If it dosen't ahere to standards from the classical period, you're out. It's so closed minded.
How can storytelling be missing in a beautiful work of art? Really if someone painted a landscape and it was beautiful, what is the story from a viewer's perspective other than that the artist was there to witness something uniquely beautiful. Shouldn't art speak for itself.
I agree with you!
David's 'Death of Marat' is very political and timeless as are a number of his other paintings.
Murder is a very different subject from partisan drama
People get blacklisted or punished in the workplace for speaking out about political issues in public, or online. You don't have to make "conservative art" (nobody does that), to get blacklisted as an artist, who's also conservative. All you have to do is Tweet the "wrong opinion", and all of the sudden activists are calling your workplace, harassing advertisers etc. You're not allowed to be pro-police. You're not allowed to disagree with sex change operations for children. You're not allowed to disagree with facilitating heroin addicts who shoot dope in the middle of the street, without being accused of racism etc. It's not the work itself that gets conservatives blacklisted. They're simply having opinions on other issues that are taking place in their community, and activists will attack their place of work, or write hit pieces about them, slandering and defaming their character. If you don't know how this works, that's okay. But, Klavan does know how this works, so in this instance he knows more than you.
Niko, if you make a bunch of straw-man arguments like this and polite society rolls their eyes at you and correctly choses to ignore then no you haven't been "blacklisted".
Aside from that, that painting was dogshit.
@@markhamilton7291 I’m not going back to 2015 to explain this stuff to you man. We are way past this
@@NikoBased What's 2015 have to do with anything? This is just the billiionth iteration of the same old reactionary grift: artist with no talent gets ignored and pulls the "I'm being cancelled" card. It's pathetic.
@@markhamilton7291 Because you're not listening. People are telling you what's happening to them, and you're simply calling them all "crazy" or you tell them they're pathetic. That's the problem. We are way past that. If you want to ignore what all of these people are telling you, and shrug them off as paranoid or crazy, you're free to do so. If you want to better understand what people are experiencing, and help solve problems, I would recommend listening. You have no idea what these people are going through because it's not happening to you. How would you like it if you were assaulted on your way to work on Monday, and everybody said you were just looking for attention, and you were pathetic? That's essentially what you're doing by refusing to listen to people when they share what's happening to them. You're the problem.
What a stupid argument. By now everyone should know that room in big NY galleries is made available for whatever abstract artist the gallery owners wager they'll make the most money representing. It's then bought by extremely wealthy people purely for it's resale value, and rarely for any other reason. If you get into a "Big gallery in NY" it's through who you know and can ingratiate yourself with.
Should we place surrealism artist in the name modern art . They are like the combine of both tradition and modern art .
this is not surrealism, you need to learn about surrealism ruclips.net/video/sdBaS8fgwNs/видео.html