Donna's husband, Shawn, was an especially nice character. He's clearly a good man, a caring and respectful husband and father, which does put him above many male characters in the series (or any series, really). He could have been just there in the background, with nothing to do, but what he does counts. Kudos to him.
I dunno if people actually find issue in this, but I can't help but feel unsatisfied with how the meta-crisis was resolved. It's such a massive plotpoint that has affected Donna for over a decade, and it feels cheap that Donna and Rose were just able to "let it go" and it's over just like that. I was expecting that the meta-crisis was going to be solved by the end of the three specials, not the first. Like the non-binary meta-crisis makes sense, Rose being subconsciously influenced by the meta-crisis to choose her new name, it works. But I was expecting that the meta-crisis has just stalled, giving them much more but still limited time. So I was hoping that was the inciting incident for The Doctor and Donna traveling again in the next two specials.
With you on the ease of the resolution on that. Maybe interfacing with the TARDIS or something, owing to the upgrades that seem to have happened with the Doctor's tech. Not counting the console's weakness vs coffee!!! OOPS
It felt a little lazy, writing wise. That and the monolog in the beginning were my least favorite parts. I think that the way it felt stereotypical after that great bit of writing with how Donna and Rose share the Meta-crisis made it feel even worse.
@@mickiee4206 100% agree. Them sharing the metacrisis was a great way to solve how Donna doesn't die. Just letting it go was just such a lazy and insulting solution to this 15 year old problem.
One moment that stood out for me was when Donna said how her daughter was rubbish at acting but didn't know how to tell her - like that in contrast with how Donna's mum wouldn't have taken a second thought before berating Donna for being bad at acting. The contrast between how Donna's mum treated her and how Donna treats, defends and supports Rose just hits hard. Small moments, but big impacts.
@@Lennonlover06 Sorry I should've clarified that I wasn't saying that specific example was Donna being supportive, I had moved on there to talk more generally about how Donna is supportive and defends her daughter. For example she's supportive of Rose's toy-making and helps her get stuff for it.
The moment that stood out for me is when Doctor Who went from being an innovative enjoyable science fiction show to a bland piece of state-funded propaganda.
My favourite part was when they pointed out that dr who presenting as male made it impossible for them to understand. Not them, the Dr. I thought I'd clarify in case the tense was needlessly confusing. And by they I mean Donna and her daughter.
It undermined her character. She is incapable of an act of generous charity because the being that gave her the money in the first place had infected her brain with HIS generosity. Another mistep I think.
@@Concreteowl I felt it was not that she wouldn't have donated the money (or a lot of it) or that she donated the money because he was secretly in her mind, affecting her, but that she felt inspired to be good by something or someone she couldn't quite pinpoint and that, once she remembered it was by her time with him, this annoyed her because their whole relationship is that she is the one companion that never felt the Doctor was this super perfect creature so better than her, and finding out she subconsciously was THIS admiring pissed her off.
I'm not enchanted by the new Tardis. ("I don't like it"). I liked a more moody, intimate, funky, steampunk feeling. The story was a bit glib with the metacrisis resolution, because Donna "letting it go" is not really part of who she is, and kind of a male/female stereotype. Saying a male presenting doctor wouldn't know that, just didn't work for me. I mean, she was mad that she gave away her money to be like him, which was perfect snarky Donna characterization and not at all about "letting it go". But without looking too deeply, it was fast-paced good fun.
@@dogblessamerica it should’ve been more of, it’s a mother-daughter thing you wouldn’t understand, make it more about family than gender although we know The Doctor has had a family in the past.
I suppose I get that they want to dissipate the metacrisis stuff so that we can get Donna as "ordinary but important" but I kind of low key wish we just ~had~ it, like spreading it out with her daughter just allowed it to work. I would have preferred without the "letting it go" but I can understand they feel the story needs to move in certain directions where the Doctor is still alone, as a Time Lord. I suppose conversely I'm not sure drawing the metacrisis as a fatal situation and agonizing over the cure would have been that rewarding of a story beat either, at least to me.
I don't believe they were implying he wouldn't know, just that it wouldn't occur to male presenting time lords that someone would just let it go.... And lets face it, if we're being honest with ourselves here.... (Deep breath) The Timelords have honestly been major shits when it comes to hogging and hoarding the power they have over time and space. Your *average* time lord, male presenting or otherwise would not generally just be like, 'yep I'm gonna give up all these perks.' They'd rather die first. See Rassilon, The Master, The Rani, The Valyard, etc... And its likely not occurred to the doctor except in situations where there was no other option... And even then he kept it in a fob watch, so, hanging on to the thing that will likely get you killed --entirely a timelord weakness that Donna and Rose are quite right in pointing out. You might have a statistically easier chance with a female timelord, especially if she had a child, see the Doctor's Mother...(Nice lady who seems to be on the way to be a weeping angel for rassilon anyone?) and do remember that the first version of the doctor was a little girl (as I recall mnetion during the RTD and Moffat eras), and you will find that over the regenerations gender can have a clouding effect on even timelords. Hoooooowever, Donna and Rose and, lets not forget our favorite Doctor River Song, were crucially, part human. Even River had to make that calculus beforehand to give up her regenerations to save the doctor... but she did it, once she was able to make that call. So Donna and Rose being part human/part timelord (pushes up glasses) metacrises, it makes perfect sense that they'd look at everything and go, 'yeah, lets give up the energy and bonuses, cause.. we'll live.' Now you could say that many men might have given up said power, but can you see Micky/Ricky, or (insert male companion here) giving it up? Sarah Jane, in a heartbeat. But then, woman. Jack Harkness, perhaps but he was Bi. So in the end, I don't think they were really far off. Yes the doctor is nonbinary, but the gender and sexuality effects from their species still have an effect to either elucidate or occlude blindspots. And we've also, lets not forget (pushes up glasses again) seen that for example, the Master, total bastard front to back, until.... he became Dr. Yana (But remember fob watch) but then.... oh then he became missy.... and missy... I rather liked. So gender and sexuality will affect a timelord to some degree. But lets also factor in something truly crucial to the whole mix. The doctordonna was SMARTER than the doctor. She made connections he never saw (See RTD first era). She was more clever and frightening in a lot of ways, and she had insights that he couldn't touch. This was one of them. Puts sonic down on podium. And that is the end of my dissertation, if it pleases the comment section. (breathes out, folds up glasses, and walks off to her little blue box for a drink.)
The new Tardis felt really reminiscent of the original Tardis combined with the Moffatt era, which worked for me. I liked it quite a bit. Awkward it almost immediately caught on fire.
TBH I thought that the arc around Rose was a touch bit heavy handed, but thats always been the tone of new Who when confronting issues surrounding marginalized identities. I don't think it quite hit the sweet spot that Nomi in Sense8 hit between honest representation without being too on the nose, but came close! Maybe even a close second. In any case, I'll take slightly overdone representation over none at all or negative representation. I do love, in both The Star Beast and Sense8, the little moments you get which you can only get when you have a trans actress playing a trans character, the moments when she won't even have a line to deliver, but just the expression on her face in response to something someone else said that is so subtle that I really don't think that any cis person could ever deliver.
They had me until the very last bit where they said the part about The Doctor being male presenting and not being able to understand how to let things go. Even if they had said something more along the lines of “after all this time you still don’t know how to let things go” would have made more sense to me. I just cringed a bit watching it. Everything else prior felt like it just fit, but that bit just wasn’t my favorite.
It's interesting to read on other review sites about how "woke" this episode is, from introducing a trans character to hinting that the Doctor is bisexual (or gay)... yet, the Doctor was outed for being bisexual LONG before this special! E.g. most interactions with Jack Harkness had a hint of sexual tension or attraction and no one was screaming "WOKE!!" back then. And Doctor who had other trans characters, some were alien, but the idea of transgender is nothing new in Doctor Who. Wonderful video Jessie, I was SO excited too watching this!
The annoying thing for me personally was that I actually quite enjoyed the episode but then those certain parts of the dialogue just felt so forced, that it harmed the flow of the narrative, it didn't work well within the context of the story and really felt like somebody else wrote it and then insisted on it being there. Also one thing my wife pointed out with the line "something a male presenting time lord just couldn't understand" is that, by their own logic, they're gender shaming him for being a man right? is that really the message they wanted to send? But then I loved the idea that Rose was non-binary, not so much in the gender sense but the idea that the doctor Donna was something so significant it etched itself into Donna's DNA and passed to her daughter, opening up the idea (to me atleast) that humans could eventually evolve into the timelords aswell, as there is now timelord DNA in the human gene pool. I thought they did a really good job of having diverse characters that made sense within the universe too, as all too often now they can end up feeling like a token after thought added in to appease people. On the whole I'll give it like a 6/10, actually excited for the next episode, which makes a change.
I just didn’t get the whole non-binary resolution - maybe I just couldn’t get around the dialogue, but it also felt a bit forced or clunky as a resolution - i feel like it could have just been that Rose inherited the meta-crisis, didn’t have to pull on a binary/non-binary thread. That being said, I too did like the moments like Sylvia’s confusion over terms, the reaction to the bullies, and Donna and Shaun’s loving support of Rose But yeah, that whole “male-presenting Time Lord” thing felt like it went a little above Donna’s normal teasing of the Doctor, and veered into weird man-bashing, especially considering the Doctor was JUST female
@@freefaller003 It was word play. Donna was going to die because all that informatiion, divided between her and the Doctor (in a binary form) was too much for Donna's mind, but having it "non-binary" but rather "ternary" (Donna, Doctor and Rose) solved the situation. But it wasn't all that clearly put.
I didn't like the "pronouns" scene...NOT because I'm against pronouns. I just thought it was a clunky scene that could have been handled a little better and still made the point. When the Doctor addressed the Meep as "he", Rose could have said, "How do we know the Meep is a he?" Instead of angrily asking "Why are we assuming male pronouns?" I mean, the Doctor kinda has met thousands of alien species and he used to be a woman. I didn't like making the Doctor ignorant of gender identity. Just a nit pick.
Ha, I thought it was saved royally by Meep, 'the definite artcie!' The Doctor isn't ignorant, he jumped straight across into that conversation; a reason the Doctor loves having companions is those alternative congugations, man. There was a Tom Baker episode going on about brains, but let's just go with the vibe that the Doctor's brain is so full there's a lot of relevancies to sift through. Economy of character tells us the most relevant thoughts to the Doctor sans companion are e.g. hostile/friendly, needs/sociability history/technology aspects. It's only in spare moments that the Doctor bears on emotionality, personality and other such factors without the input of their companions. You know what I said is true, because recall when it is not a spare moment, e.g. when the Doctor stares down a Dalek. The emotional crescendo actively stops the show. Emotionality and the Doctor is actually a thing writers over the years have struggled with. RTD did a naughty by playing with the emotionality of a character whose baseline is neurodivergent ace and I assume he has tinkered with it again in unaired scripts. And while it does annoy me when people do ace erasure on a character that I was vibing with, it's usually done to open up the character to more stories and that can be a good thing in the hands of a discerning writer. From a writing and show perspective every character needs some kind of thought economy associated with personality quirks of that particular character or it spoils the fun because you end up with a know-it-all-Mary-Sue and that annoys a lot more people than a little faux pas over pronouns. Though this convo kind of adds more to the 'male presenting' argument Donna put out later... I know this stuff is a work of art, but at some point I have to put down the subtext and just enjoy the thing. Thinking can be overrated.
i’m glad the “i’m always The Meep” line saved that scene. in my experience, no one ever went “why are you assuming pronouns?”. usually the person who’s being addressed with the wrong pronoun just corrects the one speaking, and the one speaking tries to adapt.
I agree, asking the question of "how do you know?" vs scolding would have made that conversation a bit more organic. Just have the Doctor being like "good point Rose, thanks. What do you go by?". Instead it came across a bit preachy and heavy-handed, which is what I think Chibnall's writing was bad for and Russell's series always managed to avoid in the past.
Angrily? I don't think you know what angrily sounds like, mate. She was just piping in, a little assertively. But that is not what an angry character looks like.
That's the problem... with the whole episode though. Half of it is just a hamfisted attempt at fitting those things over and over. There are more subtle and interesting ways to put those things in, maybe over more episodes would have worked better too. To me it felt they had a checkbox list of political things they had to mention/say or they wouldn't get the funding, and that was it.
I’ll be honest, to me, the ending, especially the non binary part, felt really forced and kinda tokeny to me, which is making me confused cuz I think the episode started off really well, especially with Donna and Rose’s relationship with each other and all the moments like with Donna saying that she’ll always stick up for Rose and correcting her mum when she accidentally misgendered Rose and all of that, I think all of that was really well done and I genuinely had no issues with the special until the very end, but then the end just felt so cheesy and corny and forced and I’m honestly still confused about it… but I’m really glad you and a lot of others seemed to have enjoyed it a lot, hopefully I can understand where you’re coming from after a couple of rewatches and enjoy it myself but for right now I’m just confused lol
The conversation about letting go of the meta-crisis felt a bit clunky (the dialogue was a *little* on the nose), but in hindsight, after the final episode I guess that the main thread of all three episodes was that the Doctor needs to learn to let go of the guilt and emotional burdens he's taken on (episode one - let go) and stop fixating on what he can't change (episode two - slowing down and calming your thoughts) and then finally episode 3 (play/taking a break, letting yourself heal)
Donna being the parent of a trans daughter resonates with me so much. My oldest came out to me as trans last year and it really touched my feels to watch Donna support Rose in a very similar way that I chose to support my own daughter-in-transition. I loved this show so much, it's one of my faves. There's moments of corny contrivance, but that's not unusual for Doctor Who going back 60 years.
Rose saying ‘Non-binary’ to Donna’s ‘binary’ felt a little strange to me (of course, yes, Rose may very well be female-presenting non-binary) but from the sci-fi angle, my brain had trouble reconciling it. Personally, I think her saying ‘trinary’ would have been more fitting, referring to the meta-crisis trinity of the Doctor, Donna, and Rose. The idea of ‘letting it go’, I didn’t really have a MASSIVE issue with (my reasoning is that now the meta-crisis is HALVED between Donna and Rose, the grip it has on their respective cortexes is less severe - think of it like trying to free yourself from being trapped under a heavy boulder, when the weight is reduced you might very well be able to push it off yourself), however - the small jab of it not being ‘something a male-presenting Timelord could understand’ felt a little unnecessary to say. That being said, I also agree with how on-point Donna’s adamant defence of Rose was in front of her bullies as well as her conversation with Sylvia in the kitchen - that felt so grounded and honest and human, perfect to go hand in hand with alien invasions and evil Meeps 👌🏻 THAT’S the duality that this show should carry on flaunting
I had the same issues. Haven't watched the video here yet, so perhaps something is said that will change my mind, but neither of those two lines seemed to fit with the scifi of the thing. That said, not every aspect of a sci-fi show must be sci-fi, but it almost felt like they were trying to "technobabble" transness in a way that didn't feel genuine to me. If much rather have had another of those really amazing human moments like in the kitchen. All that said, though, amazing episode, amazing representation, and if we're here squabbling over minutiae the excellent representation, then I'd say we're in an excellent place, y'know? :D
I agree that the "not something a male-presenting Timelord could understand" was the most heavy-handed part of the episode. That line actually makes gender more binary and immutable, counteracting the theme of much of the rest of the episode. Gender is not a prison, so I don't think there's anything that's *impossible* for a man to understand. Maybe statistically less likely to understand, but not impossible. Also, the Doctor is not human. He's incredibly wise and intelligent, and has seen and done more than we could ever imagine, so it seems strange to assert that there's something the Doctor can't understand. And, as we've seen the Doctor essentially is non-binary at his core. So, it's just really weird to assert that he would be unable to understand something because of the shape of his current body.
@electronics-girl and @elliotblabla I loved the episode, but I didn't understand "not something a male-presenting Timelord could understand" that bit. I was hoping maybe Jessie would say something that explained it to me. You all have come the closest saying it didn't make sense. It did feel wrong and limiting here.
That entire part kinda took me out of it too. It was a little to much in a short period of time to resolve consequences that lasted 15-years. And the jab at the end... well...I don't know why but to me it has abit of "Girls get it done-momment from Avengers Endgame"-vibes instead of "Girls get it done-momment from The Boys S2"-Vibes.
Yeah. Jessie pointed out how tokenizing and prop-like the representation in Chibnall's era could be and how it was nice to have this episode not be that. But between the "binary" thing and the "male-presenting timelord" line, the end of this episode felt very tokenizing to me as a trans woman. Or maybe a better way of putting it was that I felt a bit condescended to with how ham-fisted and unnecessary both were. Which sucked because the episode set up these themes so well with Rose, between the sequence with the bullies, the kitchen-scene and the scene with her friend. So it felt like an eye-rolly let-down at the end.
The part that got me the most was seeing 14 running through the new TARDIS like a child on a playground. If I was in his shoes, I would absolutely be doing that.
The splitting of the Metacrisis across generations is something that feels like it was cooked up on a fan forum years ago and I’m HERE for it. Love that Rose named herself *because* of the metacrisis, a truly inspired choice. Also love the Doctor continuing to misremember their gender (“that says mistress”).
Well of course it sounds like it was cooked up in a fan forum. Russell T Davies is perhaps the biggest Whovian of all time, and the writers have to be long time fans to keep from contradicting canon. In the original series that gained fame, "Queer as Folk", One of the two main lead characters, Simon, Is a HUGE "Doctor Who" fan, with every surviving episode on VHS (pre-DVD). K-9 makes an unexpected cameo, and Simon finally realizes the identity of his true love when the guy names all the actors who Played the Doctor in order. It turned out to be a huge success, in spite of some pretty graphic gay sex scenes which were shocking back then, and except for those who too young or raging homophobes, it's a very entertaining look back pre-grindr, when young guys went to the bars to hook up. And what was the first thing Russell T Davies with his new found fame & influence? He brought back "Doctor Who". I have to laugh when never satisfied whiney little incels proclaim "Doctor Who" has been ruined by that term they all use, but can never define: 'TOO WOKE'. Woke is what brought the Doctor back from oblivion. When pan-sexual Captain Jack Harkness became a companion for a few episodes, he would mostly flirt with Rose, but he also flirted with the Doctor, and a few times the Doctor flirted back.
@@quantumvideoscz2052the clue is in the name “psychic paper”. In the Twelve episode “Dark Water” he shows the psychic paper to Dr Chang who notes that there is alot of swearing to which Twelve responds that he has a lot of internalised anger. Therefore, stating that the Doctor is still forgetting his gender is a reasonable conclusion to draw in the scene with Donna’s husband even if you personally don’t see it that way.
I always took for granted that Jodie Whittaker's Doctor knew what they were talking about regarding the "fam" because Matt Smith's Doctor had experienced actually having one in the Ponds. You've just opened my eyes to the possibility that the Doctor was struggling to make that connection happen and it wasn't working out with Graham, Yasmin, and Ryan. I don't know if it was intentional. It would really have helped if their series had more consistent character writing between the humans. Also, it's really hard to tell the difference between the Doctor being socially compromised, the Doctor being too alien to read the room, and the Doctor just being distracted by their own thoughts and secrets.
Chris Chibnall's entire career has been about exploring characters and small cultures (like teams, families, or small towns/villages) that are slowly, but increasingly becoming disconnected from one another and hiding secrets from each other. That's undoubtedly a part of what Chibs was trying to do, but I don't think he could figure out how to do that while also playing in the Doctor Who sandbox at the same time. That said, I still enjoyed most of that era, mostly because of Jodie's charismatic performance, but also there's some great standalone episodes that don't try to dig into those stuff too much and it's good lighthearted fun. There's also a present theme about colonialism regarding the timelords that Chibs was also really trying to hit on that didn't quite land, but it's there. I think a better writer will pick up on that stuff down the line for sure though.
Did the “Get Woke Go Broke” crowd actually think the return of David Tennant, the 3D Tumblr Sexyman with an NB child and wears that “Leave trans kids alone, you absolute freaks” shirt with glee, actually bring it back from being “SJW”?
its a boring predictable woke fetish. oh look the black woman gives the doctor a "did you assume its gender" talk... nah thats it. they killed the franchise. gowokegobroke
@@quantumvideoscz2052 No that isn’t what I mean by “go woke, go broke” crowd, that is a good critiquing point about the “shame your a man now”, I mean people who will boycott on the dime of trans representation. But yeah it was weird as it would invalidate trans men, as clearly trans men have seen something that is more deeply relatable in the concept of masculinity, but most would have been passing as cis women for a good part of their lives, which means while they could’ve thought closer to a cis man, they still were perceived as a woman externally. Also, the Doctor is in a nutshell genderfluid, which kinda invalidates their gender identity of this point in their life, including upcoming 15th.
Honestly I hate the sonic screens. The sonic is already used as a crutch by the writers, its why they got rid of it in the 5th doctor era. I really hope the sonic screens will be like the saucer separation scene in encounter at far point. A cool set piece that looks super useful that we will never see again.
I love that in response to criticisms that _Doctor Who_ was becoming "too queer" they decided to make it more queer than ever before. I never dreamed that anyone would ever make a show like this, where a trans person would be central and _celebrated_ in the story! Where The Doctor would declare themself(selves?) both male and female and both and more! It's cliched to say at this point, but _I have never felt so seen._ I can't get over how thrilled I am with this return!
And you want to know what's even better? Knowing this is the first! "Start as you mean to go on." I am so here for the rest of this new rollercoaster ride!
I love this episode, as a trans gal myself I loved how inclusive it was and how it portrayed the struggles, It was very clunky at times tho, specifically with the asking of the names, like it's fine to ask that obvs but idk just the way it was said felt too robotic ig, and the ending.... Listen, It's putting down male presenting people, it's not right, I dont want a show to say that someone is wrong for being male, it literally goes against it's own message, RTD is trying to be inclusive but he just missed this time. Usually the companion is the one to help the doctor bc they're an arrogent time lord, it's a part of their race, but this time he's wrong because he's a man, it just feels so...... against it's own message, I'm kinda fine with the whole "the doctor is male, female none and all" bc timelords are just not bound by gender and stuff, but it also feels like Rose is non binary simply because of that, not because they chose to be, which just goes against the message.
Donna has always been my absolute favorite companion. A true platonic loving friendship without constantly dangling a carrot of a potential love story. Also like the fact that she complements the Dr so well without having to be as smart as him (other than the Dr Donna). Love Love Love their relationship and towards the end I teared up a bit. I liked how the parts that didn't make sense lined up later, like the car not getting damaged. Although there's a lot of "convenience" in Dr Who that somewhat annoys me with characters not actually figuring things out but rather things just falling into place for "reasons" that are never fully explained.
@@Lennonlover06 Maybe in most cases but with River Song, Rose, Claire, and Yaz they certainly implied that he/she was in love with them too. It was always silly that almost every random female human that ended up on the TARDIS would immediately fall in love with the Dr. even though he was an alien who never showed affection to anyone. Donna changed that and made it absolutely clear upfront that she was never going to feel that way towards him and it was super refreshing.
Donna has always been my least favourite but I think Catherine Tate was the best part of this episode. She's great at playing a protective mum. Looks like old Donna is back at the end though. Less great for me personally but I hope her fans enjoy it 🙂
I loved it. I kind of wish that when the Doctor called the Meep "he" that Rose would have instead asked what pronouns the Meep preferred rather than asking the Doctor why he assumed they were a he. The line about a male presenting Time Lord not understanding giving up power felt a touch clunky, but these are very minor nitpicks and my reaction is probably just a product of my own biases (which I work hard to address). Overall it was a brilliant return to form after Chibnall and a nice peek at where we might go.
I mean, as a trans woman, I have issues with the line as well (although, yeah, it's really a nitpick) and that's that it's not something a trans person would actually say? It feels based on "Don't assume my gender" stereotypes. Very much "trans person obviously written by a cis person" in that line. Fortunately, that was the ONLY line I noticed like that. Everything else was quite well done. What I *did* like is that, even though the Meep turns out to be evil, they never misgender the Meep. They call the Meep "the Meep" every time after that.
Those couple lines threw me off just a tiny bit as well, but I chalked it up to probably somebody cis trying. I can respect that even if it's a little clunky so long as it is sincere. I appreciate that Doctor Who is usually a lot better than other sections of the BBC on LGBTQ+ stuffs.
I love the scene where the Doctor hands the sonic screwdriver to Donna without even looking back. He knew she was there and would hold the sonic for him.
For me, the biggest tragedy of Donna’s mind wipe was that she went back to thinking that she was nobody special. The Doctor helping her refute that thinking once and for all (of course you matter, because you matter to me) was probably the most triumphant moment in the episode for me. I read The Star Beast in the 80s when Marvel reprinted some of the UK strips in the US, so I knew the “Meep Twist” going in. I would strongly recommend reading it anyway, as it’s some solid storytelling and some really good pre-Watchmen Dave Gibbons art.
It hurt. Back when it aired, clever American friends figured out how to watch DW early, while the rest of us had to wait months to see it on BBCA (ugh, getting the Christmas specials in July). So I had warning I'd be very upset about Donna.
Thinking a little more, esp while reading negative ish elsewhere. Just a couple thoughts. Donna is the best mom, just rewatched the kitchen scene & she takes my breath away. And Rose has such a wonderful family overall. Grandma’s a little confused, curious, loving, totally normal. Some folks seem to think all this is a political push for trans rights (though y’know, they can sure see it that way if they like, I fully support that view) but to me the “domestics” as I think the 9th would call it, is simply a bright view of what can happen positively in a loving accepting family with a trans child. It’s normal life, people. That there is exactly the kind of vision I want to see on my TV. As the mom of a trans daughter, I’m feeling massively included, supported and thrilled today. Never ever expected that! Yay for Who, Davies, Talalay, actors, and absolutely every creator on this ep. And like Donna I will absolutely descend on anyone who wants to fight me or denigrate my child or her friends. I happily accept the Donna power. Thx for the space here, feeling lots better 😅❤️
@@noseriouslyimserious4073 trans kids are like vegan cats we all know whos choice it was. Hopfully in the future these people can be charged with the child abuse they have brought on their poor confused children.
I loved that scene too. I'm trans and before my grandmothers passed away both tried to be supportive but neither fully understood and messed things up a lot. Like with Donna's mom it was never malicious and it was always an honest mistake from someone who really did love me, and nobody ever got mad at them for it. There's a huge difference between older relatives being bigoted and just not fully "getting it" and I love that they took the time to show that. This scene feels like it was written by a trans person or the parent of a trans person because it's something that actually does happen a lot
I felt watching it that the language they used was vague and tip-toey in the first half as if it was treating the identity of the character (and by extension the actress) as a mystery to be solved by the viewer. It felt like i was being asked to transvestigate the actress in a meta sense which rubbed me the wrong way. The finale also seemed written very confusingly, it describes the doctor and donna being two parts of a binary of the metacrisis and Rose being a non-binary balance to it, which just seems at odds with how she expresses gender as explicitly feminine. If you are confindently female being conflated with non-binary or genderfluid identities gives the appearance of a lack of knowledge and lumping everything south of "normal" into an otherizing group. If thats not what what they were going for and that they were saying 'the doctor is non-binary because of course they are' then it wasnt spelled out very clearly from my perspective, and it's also not true of what we know about the doctor who more closely represents gender fluidity. Again, your mileage may vary but i got the impression that the team was very confused about what they actually wanted to express beyond using progressive terminology and vaguely agressing the DR's relationship with gender
BTW, technically Rose Noble is not the first trans person in the Doctor Who universe. That distinction might actually go to Cleo Parker (played by Charlie Craggs) from the radio story, "Doctor Who: Redacted".
Casssandra the awesome face-skin lady was also trans though she only just slipped that in there. I feel like they did trans some timelords in the classics but that's just the vibe of my childhood memories. The General(?) towards the end of Capaldi's era also did the switch. I loved Capaldi's attitude toward the end, he really suited his electric guitar.
there are a few trans people in the audio stories - Eleanor Blake (the jabari countdown, 2018), Tania Bell (stranded, 2020-22) and Calypso Jonze (main range, 2020-21) are the ones i can think of off the top of my head, but there's probably more
A lot of things made me tear up and the disability representation was definitely one of those things. Even though it was a short moment with the stairs he went a step further to bring attention to not only disability but accessibility as well. I’m not in a wheelchair but I would not have been able to make it up those stairs. Sometimes I can’t make it up a regular flight of stairs. And she was a badass but not in an”inspiration, you can do anything!” type of way. Idk it just got me so emotional.
The instant they got in the elevator, I thought, "Oh, wait... there's an elevator after all. I bet that's going to be significant." And it was, just a few seconds later.
While I did enjoy the episode, what caught me off guard that was that it was a stand alone episode. Going into it I really thought these 3 specials were gonna be a big 3 parter really digging deep into dealing with Donnas condition and slowly regaining her memory. I can't help feeling a little bit cheapened by how quickly it was resolved and easily explained in just one episode. Especially since that the erasure of her memories was such an impactful moment back in the days, so I can't help feeling this took abit away from that. It did allow the next episode to be this wonderful return to a classic Tennant and Tate episode which I adore but I just can't get it out of my head that T.Davies resolved Donnas-story abit to quickly out of convenience.
I very much disliked the way they handled a lot of the trans stuff in the epsiode I'm not gonna lie, I thought the whole "we let it go" scene was terrible like it fundamentally misunderstands the doctor. The doctor is genderfluid!!! It sort of implied that being feminine presenting gives you an elevated level of emotional maturity. I hated the whole "you would understand if you were her" thing, as if the 13th and 14th doctors werent the same person? The doctor just spent a whole regeneration being feminine presenting and for Donna and Rose to be like "you could never understand" is SO invalidating. It's also just kind of sexist, like, why should they just let it go?? I love the idea of them embracing it and being half timelord. It was also just such a cop out story-wise and completely threw out all the emotional weight of Donna's memories being taken. Also the scene where a bunch of bullies shout Rose's deadname at her.... completely unnecessary, we did not need to know her dead name, the whole scene felt so mean-spirited. Like I have been shouted at and harrassed for being trans and I do not need to see that in every single piece of media with a trans person in it. And the whole "dont assume the meep's pronouns" thing felt way too self-congratulatory, like "hey guys we used an inclusive phrase!" without actually knowing how to apply that phrase/concept in the real world. I did however love Rose and Donna's relationship, they were very wholesome and Rose was a great character, even if she had a lot of wasted potential to be a cool half timelord.
Same. Granted, I'm non-binary and gender essentialism is a major trigger for me, so I'm very miffed that it showed up in Who and in such a way. But it also undermined the progressive intent that RTD clearly had with this episode. Which is quite odd from such a talented and sociopolitically aware writer. I wonder whether he was so focussed on sticking it to the bigots that he forgot to check whether some of the stuff he was saying *was* actually good stuff to say, or something.
I think it was a bit silly having the trans character win "because they're trans" rather than just having the trans character win because they do a cool/smart thing
Yeah it felt condescending and a bit insulting that RTD felt like he needed to go that far to be "inclusive" instead of just having a trans character be there and treating them just like all other characters. Imagine it was something like Rose being mixed race was the solution to the problem after all. Think of how much of a shitstorm that would cause. Also I felt like Rose was a pretty boring character that didn't have that much of a personality outside of "the trans character". They really should've written her better IMO
This episode was really good, The only thing I didn't really like is how easily they got rid of the doctor energy from both of them. It felt very much like a deus ex machina to me. if she could just let it go now why couldn't she just let it go then? it's the tragedy of her story. She is my favorite companion and to have her tragic story kind of just easily fixed was alittle disappointing. I think they could of found a much more interesting way to do it, I also liked how most of the themes weren't beat over your head like in jodie's run, The doctor imo in the past was always good at having serious themes and messages weaved in with clever writing which is what I think makes doctor who so special. This was a great return to form, Im sure some of that might be rooted in nostalgia but it was really good seeing them bounce off eachother again.
I think the entire reasoning that Donna and Rose were able to let the metacrisis go is because of Rose. Rose is someone who didn't just accept what she was given in terms of the gender society had assigned her based on characteristics she had no control over, she became someone else and let her previous identity go. It seems tied, if that makes sense.
@@ThatElfTorunn So if Donna's child was AFAB and transitioned into a boy, would this not have worked because the child was male presenting? It's clunky af and just insultingly bad
One thing I loved about the episode is that they showed Sylvia trying really, really hard to be a better mother, and not always succeeding. I love seeing realistic progress in situations like that.
David was who I wanted to be as a kid and I credit his portrayal of unabashed enthusiastic passion for the sheer joy at the complicated, insane, gorgeous nature of the universe and absolute blazing empathy for life and engaging with it as hard as you can with helping me avoid the worst sorts of thing you can want to be as a kid. I've been cosplaying my hero since I was in high school, and ever since Tennant stood up for trans people in the UK I've been so fucking happy every time I see the pinstripes and trench hanging on my door. He gave me something that's pulled me away from a lot that's bitter and hateful and gave me things to be proud of that I might have lost with a different hero, and I'm so happy he's standing up for what's right. I was worried his return would be pandering, that it would make me a little cynical about his portrayal of bravely choosing optimism in the face of tragedy, and instead I get to be happy to have more of my hero. This has meant so much to me, and I'm so happy we all get to share in that. The show is silly, and bad sometimes, but what's good about it means so much to me.
I thought this episode was pretty good, cope and seethe fascists, Russell T Davies will make the show even more woke than before. I do have one complaint in that the climax was too quickly and too neatly resolved but aside from that I think this episode proved that Davies still got it and I can't wait for the rest of the specials and Ncuti Gatwa's tenure as the Doctor next year.
I kinda agree. I really loved this episode. David tenant just slipped right back into the role and was just doing all of the doctor stuff. It was such a fun episode. I also do kinda agree that the ending conflict felt a bit too quickly finished. Like Donna's remembering and probably dying was quickly resolved and it kinda took the tension out but I loved all the other bits.
The anti wokes are really going to hate the actor playing the 15th Doctor! Black and Queer? Oh no, get your diapers on bigots it's going to be a bumpy ride! 😆
Doctor who ended really with Capaldi as Doctor woke was pure cringe. No one seethed as such, more laughed and simply didn't watch it. Box ticking to please a small minority of the confused brigade took over good writing.
Its not even funny though you’re destroying things people enjoy and can escape from during hard times you know true doctor fans but nah its doctor them/they now
Considering David Tennant as Crowley in Good Omens was how I figured out I was genderfluid, David being a genuinely supportive person to trans people has ment so much to me and I was definitely crying quite a bit with the conclusion of this episode.
Is it weird that I'm grateful that the 'outrage merchants' as you so cleverly put it were so deeply upset by this? Like... it's a feeling of "Good, stay mad, get out of the fandom. We don't want your bigotry here" despite the fact that I try very hard to not gatekeep.
I burst into tears when I saw the new Tardis set. The last five years have been rough for a lot of reasons, but the state of Doctor Who hit especially close to home. I hated not liking the show. This new bright, spacious, gorgeous control room felt like all my renewed hope and joy at the upcoming era manifested in architecture.
It's my headcanon that the bit with the Doctor running around the new console room was actually David's first sight of the set, they happened to have cameras rolling, and they just decided that was perfect. 😉
Had a couple of issues with it but overall I liked it. I don't have the same nostalgia for 10 and Donna as others so I didn't have that view. 1) Hated the end theme. 2) Some bad writing in having the Doctor explain the Donna thing pre-titles and then have the same exact explanation in the episode. Word for word. 3) This one may get people mad but I am trying to explain it the best way. I loved Rose and how they dealt with her and the issues she was having. I didn't like the whole wrap up of solving the Donna remembering things as just let it go and you wouldn't understand as you identify as male. Just didn't land right with me, I even thought what does it say about trans men. Could have done it differently. I hope people understand what I am saying. Really loved the new console room. Hope it stays. Had a bit of every room. The classic series, the round dome feel of 10, the stairs all over the place of Smith, the under the console of Capaldi. Not crazy about the round sci-fi doors but that is minor. I hope it stays/ Again over all I liked it. I really ca't wait for the 15th Doctor.
5:45 Not only was she a positive example of disability representation, but she ACTUALLY SAID "DON'T MAKE ME THE PROBLEM", it was great! We don't want to be infantilized, we understand that things have to be different. I though Donna's Mom (Sylvia?) asking if what she said about/to Rose was ok was great. Even who I talk to my cis-daughter, I have similar thoughts.
Its not just "theres a trans person" that people are annoyed by. Its how they went about it. I dont understand how hard it is to understand: dont tear down what people love to build up diverse characters. You dont need to say "youre an idiot because youre a male doctor" to make the point that the trans character figured something out. It was pointlessly petty and spiteful.
The 10th is my doctor so I’m bias towards anything he or the actor is in. Also Donna is one of my favorite tv supporting characters of all time. I liked the episode but that “ male presenting doctor wouldn’t understand “ and “ I’m more “ was cringy to me also just sexist as if your gender is more important than who you are. There a concept of gender moral superiority that I think is counter productive to equality. Loved that they showed the challenges Rose faced at being teased and Rose’s grandmother trying but still having challenges all felt organic. As far as disability representation the population deserves to betrayed as villains , heroes , greedy, selfless , paragons of morality and corrupt characters. They deserve to be represented as people just like everyone else.
The Sonic Screwdriver being able to draw “hard light” constructs reminded me of those Disney Channel idents where the performers drew the logo in the air with a “magic wand”…
I did feel the episode was a little rushed but I can absolutely see a certain type of Who fan absolutely loosing their minds, feck em, absolutely feck em, this is a Doctor for the people that need it.
Oh yes!!! I have a big grin on my face as I just finished it wow! It's so good seeing Donna and The Doctor again! I love the representation, that was brilliant! I love that and it makes sense! That Tardis interior looked so gorgeous, I just wanted to run around It as well. The Meep was very interesting, cool design, haven't read the story, but was entertained. I'm very curious to see where we go, but to understand why that face returned and where this is leading us. Excellent review and love the sonic!
The only moment that felt weird to me was Rose telling the Doctor that a male-presenting Time Lord wouldn't understand how to let go. The male-presenting 12th Doctor's last line was literally "Doctor, I let you go." So that moment was weird. But everything else was really damn good. Also, you know RTD is back because the Doctor reverses all of the structural damage to London by basically flipping a rewind switch. Physics and science be damned. 😂
I’m so jazzed, this was a brilliant episode. My hearts breaking with joy when I realised what Rose’s plush crochets were (in particular Satan). Mom Donna is best Donna
I loved The Star Beast! It was great to see Tennant and Tate back again. Yasmin Finney is a great edition. I had a smile on my face the entire episode! It was just so much fun! I do wish Fourteen was a little less like Ten. He’s supposed to be a different incarnation. I thought there was something fishy going on with The Meep and the Wreath Warriors. But I didn’t call The Meep being the villain and the Wreath Warriors being like intergalactic criminal court police. Miriam Margolyes was excellent as The Meep. I really like the way they both reactivated the meta-crisis with the “binary, binary, binary” glitch repetition and then solved the meta-crisis with it being male, female, binary, and non-binary. And that Rose inherited the meta-crisis. It was very reminiscent of River having Time Lord powers. But the meta-crisis solution of “let it go” just felt a little anticlimactic. The new TARDIS looks a little too clean and clinical. The TARDIS is alive. It should have a personality. And they are putting that Disney money to work with those fantastic VFX. If we do get that UNIT spin-off, I hope Shirley is in it.
I would like to see what makes 14 different from 10 but you've got to admit seeing Tennant just own that role once again as 10 radiates pure joy. That man loves being The Doctor to a degree where I would bet money he does The Doctor voice when on his own and thinking .
Damnit, now I’m imagining the B99 cast as Judson and Wrarth Warriors. And I’m also wondering which characters would be which species either thematically appropriate, or hilariously contrasting. Rosa as a Meep; Boyle as a Sontaran.
My wife saw this one before I did, and she complained that for a show that was trying so hard to be inclusive of gender identities, the ending seemed oddly gender-essentialist--that there would be things women instinctively understand that a "male-presenting Time Lord" couldn't, even if he WAS a woman quite recently, and also the way it gives Rose's trans-ness a peculiar science-fiction explanation instead of it just being a thing that people are. I finally did see it yesterday evening and I can see where she's coming from. But I also think your obvious delight at it, as representation, makes me feel a bit better about all that.
Kind of inspired-yet-clunky, maybe rushed but certainly fun and sweet, that's my RTD. It's amazing that this was the best visually the production has ever been, and it's for _Beep the Freaking Meep,_ of all things! Margolyes chewing it up! Amazing combo of puppet, suit, and animation work. I grew up with these comics from the 80s UK Doctor Who magazine so it's a trip to see some of that more fantastic stuff realized on television. This actually makes me 90% more confident that somebody would finally dare to try an episode with Frobisher - usually a shape-shifting penguin. Who is amazing.
Amazingly enough, it seems Americanizing Doctor Who with the giant mouse has…worked astonishingly well! See BBC, us Yanks get Who too…😅😁 Srsly though, I remember a time when a character like Beep the Meep was considered a strictly comics-only character as there was no way to properly show the character in live-action…now look at where we’re at, as Beep the Meep has made their live-action debut and it was WONDERFUL! 😍🥰😁 If this is what we can come to expect from a somewhat Americanized version of Doctor Who, then honestly SIGN ME UP! 😅😍🥰😁
So is the Meep saying the definite article "The" is the way to refer to him a callback to "Robot" where Tom Baker said he's the definite article as THE Doctor?
This was to me a very good story, well made and to hear the characters saying that the doctor is neither male nor female, but both and neither at the same time. Its a little bit like my own version of Merlin, who is also male, female, extremely old and extremely young at the same time.
Well the doctor was always male. Then turned into Jodie who is female. But Jodies version was no longer Doctor Who. I mean that's just being honest. The whole thing was more like a patronising "hey would like a go too little child?" He was always a he never established as a motherdite. On the plus side it was good comedy value though.
@@JAWS-dn8fm Before she even became the doctor there was two mentions of time lords changing to a woman. The time lord who was forcefully regenerated and the one outside the universe with the tattoo.
@@FishyFly If its part of the character and story but just not done before then great! I image given some of the takes of doctors who's cringy persona (Matt Smith for instance) some incarnations would be better suited with a female actress anyway. Thats why when it first aired I was looking forward to watching it. But what's with the genderless nonsense? Still either forms male or female. It's when it's used as a forced box ticking PC stunt over good story telling that it just becomes eye rollingly cringe.
@@JAWS-dn8fm While the forms individually are man or woman, the fact that the doctor as a singular character can switch between being a man and woman. If they weren't some kind of non-binary and were more cis the change would be dysphoric. So, if the doctor was just a man or just a woman it would functionally be a trans experience just for the whole being seen as what they aren't. Since they can change genders as easily as sex, they would be, in human terms, genderfluid or at least gender apathetic.
@@FishyFlyperhaps even agender since they have mentioned on a few occasions when it comes to gender that they don't care all that much I think capaldi mentioned it once with bill but I am not sure if I am misremembering
I did feel a bit like some of the representation was done with a heavy hand. And the scene towards the end with the "you wouldn't understand" was very cringe-worthy to me, especially with the lines said were just contradictory and has the vibes of TERFy bio-essentialism in a weird way? It felt like a conflating of 2nd, 3rd, and 4th wave feminist theory. The Meep being evil seemed way too obvious to me. Initially I was thinking that maybe they would suspect it being evil then it would turn out to be genuinely innocent at the end, but after so much time passed it was clear it was going to be evil. Also, Donna spilling coffee on the console at the end was so extremely telegraphed and took so long to happen, it made everything between her getting the coffee and spilling it drag as I was just waiting for it to happen. Also, I don't know if I fully felt the vibe of the Doctor and Donna... Maybe we'll get a vibe and chemistry back later on. I don't need or even want the same vibe they once had, as they're different people now, but I hope we see a more interesting dynamic for the next episode. I was kind of annoyed that the Doctor took like two minutes deliberating over giving her her memories back, and then the things she had to do with her knowledge weren't even that extensive. He easily could have coached her through it with the time remaining, lol. I expected it to be much more involved. I don't know, it's a silly CinemaSins style nickpick but some of those really stand out to me when they're this ridiculous. It was fine, overall. I enjoy Rose, I enjoy the new sonic powers and the new tardis interior, even if I tend to prefer the more dark and grisly feeling ones. Having one reminiscent of the first doctor is neat. Most of the writing was better overall.
I was disappointed Wilf didn't show up (yet?). Personally I was a bit disappointed by the TARDIS. It felt a bit too clean and empty to me but the light changing the colour is great. Maybe it will grow on me. Will we see where the doors go?
Wilf will be there. In E2 or E3. Sadly, actor that played him (Bernard Cribbins) died shortly after he finished filming his scenes :( So Doctor Who was his final role...which kind of fit's, since he played Doctor's companion back in 1960s! Yes, he played Doctor's companion in (now non canon) 1960s movie "Daleks' Invasion Earth 2150 A.D." :)
@@inquerion8867 What do you mean the now non-canon daleks movies. They have always been their own weird thing. The doctor is now a human called Dr Who played by Peter Cushing. I know it was his final role. I feel like the might not of quite filmed all they wanted too. Since he died not long after the announcement of David Tennant and Catherine Tate's return.
I would love to see where the doors go. We always get the sense that the TARDIS is enormous with many rooms, but most of the time we only ever see the one room.
I'm not sure I really saw much sound structure in Rose's story. Like, what exactly changed by the end that made her feel like she was "finally [herself]"? And I thought her main issue was just how people regularly othered her. Seemed like she knew who she was but just didn't feel welcome - not something that easily gets character arc'd away irl.
The metacrisis was used as a metaphor for her trans-ness. She "felt like she was from another planet" because she actually had the dormant mind of a time lord, just as she at one point felt weird about her gender because she was actually a nonbinary woman. When she lets the metacrisis go, her mind (time lord) and body (human) are finally one and the same, both human. Just as before her mind (nonbinary woman) and her body (once AMAB) once aligned into both being nonbinary woman.
@@kabobawsome Do you think that's adequatte plant and payoff? I'm trying to think what could've been missing that would've made me understand how this is a cathartic resolution for Rose, beyond the allegory angle. Maybe I need to watch it again. Probably missed a lot of things.
It was a little abrupt dramatically. It makes sense with Rose’s feelings of alienation being somewhat explained by the metacrisis etc. But the scene was played a little weird so it could feel like “did I miss something?” It wasn’t just that she was bullied or trans, she also mentioned sometimes feeling like an alien even beyond that. They set up a lot of things and tried to bring it all together in one sentence in an awkwardly chosen spot.
@@jackdavinci See, I understand the writer's incentive to hide the clues in plain sight, letting us all assume "I feel like an alien" isn't meant to be taken literally, but if it's meant to tie into the emotional catharsis at the end I think it's a little misguided. While it would have ruined the surprise, I think we needed to see things going on with Rose's head, coinciding with Donna feeling like "something's missing" so we'd know they're connected, somehow. Would've made for its own intrigue, making us wonder what it'd build to.
Loved this episode. My heart radiated with genderfluid joy. As a parent of a trans son, seeing my kid in full trans joy was a thing of beauty. May this episode give that joy for decades to come. That wheelchair was kickass. The subtle nods to the past was a good thread to the story. I swear Tony Stark designed the new U.N.I.T building. (Companions! Assemble.) I echo your review. Finally, what is up with cute yet malevolent critters beginning with the letter 'M' this year? (Lower Decks, I'm looking at you.)
Well the new versions aren't about story telling or about the real Doctor who any more, just a box ticking adventure to please the small minority of the alphabet brigade.
I loved the episode and had no real problems with any of the "wokeness" or whatever the haters are calling it. The one issue I have is the scene where Donna and Rose release the metacrisis energy feeling *forced*. It could have spent more time in the oven, so to speak. Like....the Doctor just regenerated from being a woman not long ago (from their perspective), so how is it that the Doctor wouldnt understand just because they're in a male body? 🤔 They arguably have a broader experience than anyone. I liked the explanation about how adding a third person wouldn't make it binary anymore, but what does that have to do with gender? I also like that The Meep is always The Meep. Hail to the Most High!
Correct me if I'm wrong (and I don't mean to be offensive I'm just confused) but up until now I always thought trans and nonbinary were two different things
Oof, ok... Let's be real for a moment, because that lecture moment about "how a male-presenting time lord doesn't let go easily" does sound mean, even agressive towards the Doctor and specially considering how the doctor has been able of leting his or her current incarnation go in order to be able to regenerate in the past, even if they struggled with the idea of radically changing and becoming someone else. They had let companions go on with their lives, not to mention that he has let them die and has honored their sacrifice and their memories. If we apply the same principle to how they (Donna and Rose, her daughter) got rid of the metacrisis energy, RTD could have written something like "Doctor, you should know better than anyone that regeneration can't be fighted, only accepted, and we accept to let it go" or something like that. Because seriously, the doctor is a millennial life form that has treated beings of all genders and non-genders throughout time and space and it is just NOW that he needed to be educated about it? Even after being a woman? It's not like he forgot that he was 13th or anything, that was just RTD puting a problem where there was none just like the davros issue. And the most absolute proof is how he reacted to the someones comment online that said in an ironic way how the cyberman might be a "hurtful" image to the users of artificial prostheses that needs to be changed. He simply mocked and that was it, if you ask me that doesn't seem like a very open mind thing to do.
I hope you either watched or get the chance to watch Doctor Who Unleashed Jessie! Having a Doctor Who Confidential reboot is wonderful, and it included an interview with Yasmin Finney and Russell T Davies about the character of Rose Noble and the importance of having representation on Doctor Who
When are we going to get a bald Doctor? I wonder if I cry, scream and spit a butt plug out too we'll get a doctor with male pattern balding? Oh no that's right, I don't feel every work of fiction and storytelling has to be all about me and can enjoy it regardless. Maybe he'll regenerate into a midget next! Oooh that would be so brave!🥰 He'd have an advantage against the Daleks though, they'd never see him coming!
@@DigiRangerScott I hope she does, for me Doctor Who Confidential was every bit as much as part of the Saturday tradition as Doctor Who itself was. Watching it as an adult and getting insight into the making of the show, from sets to costumes to writing, is so fun. Does a deep dive into individual episodes that I really appreciate.
It was everything you'd expect from Russell T Davies, David Tennant and Catherine Tate. While I've loved all eras of the show, their era was particularly magical. And it's a wonderful gift to the fans that the magic is BACK!
That's insane that there's a discourse around davros being disabled and losing disabled representation. His original representation was not disabled because he was the founder of the Daleks and in his prior reincarnation he was exactly like the Daleks but now if they keep his human form once the Daleks are made then yes he would be disabled. His original design was clearly a human Dalek hybrid if he doesn't become a human Dalek hybrid then that would devalue his value to the Daleks. He would be in Pierre and we need to be exterminated. This goes to my prior comment about how quality control and no respect for Canon exists because this is simply not just a character redesign this is a redesign that completely ignores the ideology of the Daleks. I do not see the Daleks taking orders from Adore Me human walking around on two legs. They would go exterminate exterminate exterminate davros!
I love the fact that the abilities of the sonic screwdriver are always focused on unlocking things and openning doors. But now we have abilities based on protecting the things you love, creating screens to get everyone to safety. And then those screens can also be used as another form of "unlocking", working as a computer screen to access knowledge in a database. Once again emphasising the non-violent, pro-growth and anti-destructive nature at the core of Doctor Who. Brilliant!
@@normietwiceremoved I'm not sure why you're upset, but I personally would like some technobabble to go with that new plot device and I'ma gonna try not to hold out for it.
I love your enthusiasm for the story. I'm writing my own review tomorrow so welcome your positive energy. I thought the reveal about Rose's garden shed and plush toys was terrific.
The Doctor being able to admit they love again is a leftover sentiment from 13 whom never ceased to talk about the things she loved in the universe. First Doctor of the "new Who" era that seemed to be healing from the Time War events and found that wonder and love in the galaxy again like they used to be. It's reflected in how 14 is portrayed now as opposed to how they were as 10.
I can't tell if I'm just emotionally stunted. Everyone else seems to have been bouncing in their seats with this episode but it was just kind of okay, for me?
My (hasn't figured out how yet but is totally) trans husband just watched this episode and then happily babbled at me about how happy it made him for 5 uninterrupted minutes! I'm getting the splashback of his trans joy, and anything that makes the daily mail mad is joyful for both of us!
Hi there. I hope it comes through by the fact I literally made an account on a burner that I'm uncomfortable sharing my own experiences to my name because of how much it's traumatized me, but I would be remiss to not say SOMETHING. ANYTHING. In response to this. As someone who medically has been through a lot of hormonal treatment for issues beyond my control (which is just like dysphoria, I am absolutely 100% of the belief that the cure for dysphoria is proper reinforcement of how they feel, and giving the finger to anyone who tries to deny them what makes them happy), this kind of talk... happens to me a lot. Now, I'm not trying to say you don't know your partner or anything, and it's important to track how those you care about feel... but describing someone you know as "not having figured it out yet"? I just hope you don't talk about your partner like that to your friends. I've had friends over the years call me an egg, insinuate they knew more about me than they did, I even had a partner try to convince me because I experienced dysphoria, or I like some girly things, that I was trans. I'm not. I've been through dysphoria, hell, I had A-cups due to the treatment I was on for a while, I asked myself that same question many others do at that age, and I've been through it all because of it. I'm a guy. I know I'm a guy, I don't WANT to be a girl, and there's a lot of trauma because of what happened to my body, what needed to happen to keep me alive, and how I felt then that makes me so, so uncomfortable, and angry, and so many other things when people insinuate my identity without knowing who I am or what I've been through. If your partner ends up being a husband? Fantastic (reference intended)! But, isn't it your job as a partner to not assume how they feel? To not make that decision for them? Do they KNOW you talk about them like this? I'd be upset. I WAS upset. I'm not saying that it's going to be the case for your partner but, my god, I remember that partner telling all my friends I was going to announce it any day now and they were sure. It literally brings me to tears thinking about it. I hope I'm wrong, I hope you guess right, but I also hope, in my heart, that you give them the space to decide this for THEMSELVES. Because that's what this should be about. Not you, how you feel, what YOU think. What THEY identify as. Don't guess, ask. Be like Rose, ask, don't assume. I hope you're having a brilliant day, and are enjoying the brand new Doctor Who content. As well, thank you for your time. I hope you and your partner stay together for as long as time continues forward for both of you.
Dispite all the clues being there it still took me years to come out to myself. Sometimes you stop yourself from knowing for all manner of reasons. Those who are truly closest to you can figure you out sometimes. Like, say, a spouse.
I identify as a strong robot. I've applied to the council for a grant to have my walls turned to polystyrene bricks so when I hit them my metallic hands don't bleed and the bricks can break. But they're bigots and won't supply me the grant😠 I like that Doctor Who is so inclusive but when they make the cybermen/people/persons as the bad guys it demonises machines like myself so Chibnall is a big fat bigot!! Though I love they did address my needs in the episode about being robophobic so I'm holding out some hope!🤞We will all fight normal people together!❤ peace out✌️🥰
Seeing rose shine up, and the gift they received at birth of remembering stuff they never saw, I was soooo excited ! And it made so much sense ! Tho I've been weirded out by the "girl power" resolution at the end, it was a great episode with a mostly nice conclusion ! I hope we will see more of Rose ! (why are you saying Rose Tyler in the video by the way? )
I too really liked this episode. The directing, dialogue and characterization all felt greatly improved and I want more. And bringing in Beep! A villain that go way back in Who but have not been on screen before, most suiting for 60th anniversary. And Gold is back, music is way better. It was not perfect, it felt a bit rushed and was too heavy on exposition for my taste, but to me those are small complaints compared to what have been before. Oh, and a TARDIS with filming angles! When it comes to gender, yeah I really liked how it was used in the story. It felt like some very classic gender magic and tying it to the Doctors complex and expansive nature was indeed interesting, I hope they do more with that. I was not a fan of the comments "It is a shame you are not a woman any more" and "Something a male-presenting Time Lord will never understand." I felt they went too far towards him of all people and where quite unnecessary, especially after they had been so interesting and lovely when it comes to gender representation.
The new Tardis is HUGE & gorgeous! & interesting that it’s super bright vs 13’s that was super dark. Both are hard to film though. I feel sorry for the cinematographers who have to try to light their faces despite all that backlighting! Still looks amazing though. More so in person I bet.
He probably briefly caught her up on the rest of what happened with the Master and Wilf, seeing as that's the last adventure she knew about and technically involved her to a degree (and obviously her grandfather), including his death and subsequent regeneration. As well as the other regenerations after, seeing as she also knew the he had been a woman as his last face.
It's always fun to see your takes on enjoyable new episodes from shows :) (I don't normally comment because I don't usually feel like I have anything to add). I also loved the episode. Having Tennant and Tate back was amazing. It hit the right balance of the usual Doctor Who silly, while also knowing when to take a moment seriously. Such unambiguously positive trans rep from one of the most popular shows from the UK feels like such an important (and bold) move that re-affirmed how happy I already was the RTD would be running the show again. As a multi-gendered individual who presents a variety of ways, I can't say I cared for the line about the Doctor not being able to understand because he was a 'male-presenting Time Lord.' Seemed rather essentialist in a way that ran counter to the rest of how gender was being handled. But overall, I think I can let it slide given it was very clear everyone involved was doing their best to handle trans representation well. I look forward to seeing how it goes from here.
"Outrage merchants" yeah, I'm sick of them. But it also happens on intellectual channels... they only have to say some nuanced detail could have been better and the bigots swarm the comments section like so many hateful flies.
Wheeeeee! I *loved* it! Actually got a little verklempt at the climactic “binary/non-binary” scene 🥰 It’s funny, just a couple days ago I ran across one of those ugly, bitter rants in the comments on another channel that was doing an “intro to Doctor Who” piece in prep for adding the show into its rotation-all about how that person refused to ever watch even a minute of the show with Jodie because of all the wokeness 🙄, but they were thrilled that it would be back on track in the upcoming incarnation. I like to think of that person kicking and screaming on the floor at this fabulous special. Not quite as fun as seeing Doctor Donna knocking it out of the park, but satisfying!
Lol indeed. It is a bit strange and potentially annoying to me that RTD used nonbinary in that fashion though because that's not what nonbinary is. Nonbinary is separate to male and female though can for many be placed on a spectrum between male and female, what it isn't is simply a combination of both. Plus Rose continues to use she/her pronouns after that point and so is not actually nonbinary? (Nonbinary people can use those pronouns but you'd expect them to add some form of nonbinary pronoun after explicitly saying she is nonbinary.) Fucking DUNE does a better job of nonbinary explanation and it was written by a homophobe who created the allegory accidentally! Paul is able to access both male and female elements which in the Dune universe given its strict nature of certain male and female traits means that Paul has to be nonbinary within the context of the story, he is neither male nor female but can access both.
@amylaneio try reading what I wrote, I explicitly stated that nonbinary people can use those pronouns. It's more here that nothing changes with Rose's character other than that, there is zero exploration of what it means for her despite explicitly stating that her view of herself has changed. P.S. I use He/they pronouns myself.
@@psoma_brufd Agreed. As a enby, I found RTD's use of nonbinary very frustrating and incorrect. It was very "I don't think that word means what you think it means..."
Gosh I love how David Tennant and Catherine Tate just slipped back into their roles like they have never left the show. Especially Tate, switching from pre-runaway bride Donna to the DoctorDonna in an instant was just... *chef's kiss*
Donna's husband, Shawn, was an especially nice character. He's clearly a good man, a caring and respectful husband and father, which does put him above many male characters in the series (or any series, really).
He could have been just there in the background, with nothing to do, but what he does counts. Kudos to him.
Tbh he was boring and had 0 character he was just a tagalong
The scene where he says "something smells good" is hilarious.
@@Donnagata1409 yeah but he had 0 character or personality
I dunno if people actually find issue in this, but I can't help but feel unsatisfied with how the meta-crisis was resolved. It's such a massive plotpoint that has affected Donna for over a decade, and it feels cheap that Donna and Rose were just able to "let it go" and it's over just like that.
I was expecting that the meta-crisis was going to be solved by the end of the three specials, not the first. Like the non-binary meta-crisis makes sense, Rose being subconsciously influenced by the meta-crisis to choose her new name, it works.
But I was expecting that the meta-crisis has just stalled, giving them much more but still limited time. So I was hoping that was the inciting incident for The Doctor and Donna traveling again in the next two specials.
With you on the ease of the resolution on that. Maybe interfacing with the TARDIS or something, owing to the upgrades that seem to have happened with the Doctor's tech. Not counting the console's weakness vs coffee!!! OOPS
It felt a little lazy, writing wise. That and the monolog in the beginning were my least favorite parts. I think that the way it felt stereotypical after that great bit of writing with how Donna and Rose share the Meta-crisis made it feel even worse.
@@mickiee4206 100% agree. Them sharing the metacrisis was a great way to solve how Donna doesn't die. Just letting it go was just such a lazy and insulting solution to this 15 year old problem.
One moment that stood out for me was when Donna said how her daughter was rubbish at acting but didn't know how to tell her - like that in contrast with how Donna's mum wouldn't have taken a second thought before berating Donna for being bad at acting. The contrast between how Donna's mum treated her and how Donna treats, defends and supports Rose just hits hard. Small moments, but big impacts.
@@Lennonlover06 Sorry I should've clarified that I wasn't saying that specific example was Donna being supportive, I had moved on there to talk more generally about how Donna is supportive and defends her daughter. For example she's supportive of Rose's toy-making and helps her get stuff for it.
The moment that stood out for me is when Doctor Who went from being an innovative enjoyable science fiction show to a bland piece of state-funded propaganda.
My favourite part was when they pointed out that dr who presenting as male made it impossible for them to understand. Not them, the Dr. I thought I'd clarify in case the tense was needlessly confusing. And by they I mean Donna and her daughter.
@@PhattyBolger You need a chocolatey drink and a little lie down there?
@@PhattyBolgerkinda ironic, when the BBC is pretty transphobic, and is under the thumb of the Tory government, itself pretty transphobic.
The moment where Donna realises that she gave the lottery money away was the funniest part for me.
It undermined her character. She is incapable of an act of generous charity because the being that gave her the money in the first place had infected her brain with HIS generosity. Another mistep I think.
@@Concreteowl I felt it was not that she wouldn't have donated the money (or a lot of it) or that she donated the money because he was secretly in her mind, affecting her, but that she felt inspired to be good by something or someone she couldn't quite pinpoint and that, once she remembered it was by her time with him, this annoyed her because their whole relationship is that she is the one companion that never felt the Doctor was this super perfect creature so better than her, and finding out she subconsciously was THIS admiring pissed her off.
@@Concreteowl I found it spot on - giving it ALL away was extreme and she could never give a good reason why she did it.
I'm not enchanted by the new Tardis. ("I don't like it"). I liked a more moody, intimate, funky, steampunk feeling. The story was a bit glib with the metacrisis resolution, because Donna "letting it go" is not really part of who she is, and kind of a male/female stereotype. Saying a male presenting doctor wouldn't know that, just didn't work for me. I mean, she was mad that she gave away her money to be like him, which was perfect snarky Donna characterization and not at all about "letting it go". But without looking too deeply, it was fast-paced good fun.
Yes the idea that "gender presentation" would affect the doctor's *perception* of anything seems to fly in the face of who the doctor *is*
@@dogblessamerica it should’ve been more of, it’s a mother-daughter thing you wouldn’t understand, make it more about family than gender although we know The Doctor has had a family in the past.
I suppose I get that they want to dissipate the metacrisis stuff so that we can get Donna as "ordinary but important" but I kind of low key wish we just ~had~ it, like spreading it out with her daughter just allowed it to work. I would have preferred without the "letting it go" but I can understand they feel the story needs to move in certain directions where the Doctor is still alone, as a Time Lord. I suppose conversely I'm not sure drawing the metacrisis as a fatal situation and agonizing over the cure would have been that rewarding of a story beat either, at least to me.
I don't believe they were implying he wouldn't know, just that it wouldn't occur to male presenting time lords that someone would just let it go.... And lets face it, if we're being honest with ourselves here.... (Deep breath)
The Timelords have honestly been major shits when it comes to hogging and hoarding the power they have over time and space. Your *average* time lord, male presenting or otherwise would not generally just be like, 'yep I'm gonna give up all these perks.' They'd rather die first. See Rassilon, The Master, The Rani, The Valyard, etc...
And its likely not occurred to the doctor except in situations where there was no other option... And even then he kept it in a fob watch, so, hanging on to the thing that will likely get you killed --entirely a timelord weakness that Donna and Rose are quite right in pointing out.
You might have a statistically easier chance with a female timelord, especially if she had a child, see the Doctor's Mother...(Nice lady who seems to be on the way to be a weeping angel for rassilon anyone?) and do remember that the first version of the doctor was a little girl (as I recall mnetion during the RTD and Moffat eras), and you will find that over the regenerations gender can have a clouding effect on even timelords.
Hoooooowever, Donna and Rose and, lets not forget our favorite Doctor River Song, were crucially, part human. Even River had to make that calculus beforehand to give up her regenerations to save the doctor... but she did it, once she was able to make that call. So Donna and Rose being part human/part timelord (pushes up glasses) metacrises, it makes perfect sense that they'd look at everything and go, 'yeah, lets give up the energy and bonuses, cause.. we'll live.'
Now you could say that many men might have given up said power, but can you see Micky/Ricky, or (insert male companion here) giving it up? Sarah Jane, in a heartbeat. But then, woman. Jack Harkness, perhaps but he was Bi.
So in the end, I don't think they were really far off. Yes the doctor is nonbinary, but the gender and sexuality effects from their species still have an effect to either elucidate or occlude blindspots. And we've also, lets not forget (pushes up glasses again) seen that for example, the Master, total bastard front to back, until.... he became Dr. Yana (But remember fob watch) but then.... oh then he became missy.... and missy... I rather liked. So gender and sexuality will affect a timelord to some degree.
But lets also factor in something truly crucial to the whole mix. The doctordonna was SMARTER than the doctor. She made connections he never saw (See RTD first era). She was more clever and frightening in a lot of ways, and she had insights that he couldn't touch.
This was one of them.
Puts sonic down on podium. And that is the end of my dissertation, if it pleases the comment section. (breathes out, folds up glasses, and walks off to her little blue box for a drink.)
The new Tardis felt really reminiscent of the original Tardis combined with the Moffatt era, which worked for me. I liked it quite a bit. Awkward it almost immediately caught on fire.
TBH I thought that the arc around Rose was a touch bit heavy handed, but thats always been the tone of new Who when confronting issues surrounding marginalized identities. I don't think it quite hit the sweet spot that Nomi in Sense8 hit between honest representation without being too on the nose, but came close! Maybe even a close second. In any case, I'll take slightly overdone representation over none at all or negative representation.
I do love, in both The Star Beast and Sense8, the little moments you get which you can only get when you have a trans actress playing a trans character, the moments when she won't even have a line to deliver, but just the expression on her face in response to something someone else said that is so subtle that I really don't think that any cis person could ever deliver.
They had me until the very last bit where they said the part about The Doctor being male presenting and not being able to understand how to let things go. Even if they had said something more along the lines of “after all this time you still don’t know how to let things go” would have made more sense to me. I just cringed a bit watching it. Everything else prior felt like it just fit, but that bit just wasn’t my favorite.
It's interesting to read on other review sites about how "woke" this episode is, from introducing a trans character to hinting that the Doctor is bisexual (or gay)... yet, the Doctor was outed for being bisexual LONG before this special! E.g. most interactions with Jack Harkness had a hint of sexual tension or attraction and no one was screaming "WOKE!!" back then. And Doctor who had other trans characters, some were alien, but the idea of transgender is nothing new in Doctor Who.
Wonderful video Jessie, I was SO excited too watching this!
The annoying thing for me personally was that I actually quite enjoyed the episode but then those certain parts of the dialogue just felt so forced, that it harmed the flow of the narrative, it didn't work well within the context of the story and really felt like somebody else wrote it and then insisted on it being there.
Also one thing my wife pointed out with the line "something a male presenting time lord just couldn't understand" is that, by their own logic, they're gender shaming him for being a man right? is that really the message they wanted to send?
But then I loved the idea that Rose was non-binary, not so much in the gender sense but the idea that the doctor Donna was something so significant it etched itself into Donna's DNA and passed to her daughter, opening up the idea (to me atleast) that humans could eventually evolve into the timelords aswell, as there is now timelord DNA in the human gene pool.
I thought they did a really good job of having diverse characters that made sense within the universe too, as all too often now they can end up feeling like a token after thought added in to appease people.
On the whole I'll give it like a 6/10, actually excited for the next episode, which makes a change.
Yeah, the "something a male presenting time lord just couldn't understand" was a really cringeworthy line in my opinion.
Agreed, in my opinion, that's the only thing I didn't vibe with.
I just didn’t get the whole non-binary resolution - maybe I just couldn’t get around the dialogue, but it also felt a bit forced or clunky as a resolution - i feel like it could have just been that Rose inherited the meta-crisis, didn’t have to pull on a binary/non-binary thread. That being said, I too did like the moments like Sylvia’s confusion over terms, the reaction to the bullies, and Donna and Shaun’s loving support of Rose
But yeah, that whole “male-presenting Time Lord” thing felt like it went a little above Donna’s normal teasing of the Doctor, and veered into weird man-bashing, especially considering the Doctor was JUST female
@@freefaller003
It was word play. Donna was going to die because all that informatiion, divided between her and the Doctor (in a binary form) was too much for Donna's mind, but having it "non-binary" but rather "ternary" (Donna, Doctor and Rose) solved the situation.
But it wasn't all that clearly put.
I didn't like the "pronouns" scene...NOT because I'm against pronouns. I just thought it was a clunky scene that could have been handled a little better and still made the point. When the Doctor addressed the Meep as "he", Rose could have said, "How do we know the Meep is a he?" Instead of angrily asking "Why are we assuming male pronouns?" I mean, the Doctor kinda has met thousands of alien species and he used to be a woman. I didn't like making the Doctor ignorant of gender identity. Just a nit pick.
Ha, I thought it was saved royally by Meep, 'the definite artcie!'
The Doctor isn't ignorant, he jumped straight across into that conversation; a reason the Doctor loves having companions is those alternative congugations, man. There was a Tom Baker episode going on about brains, but let's just go with the vibe that the Doctor's brain is so full there's a lot of relevancies to sift through. Economy of character tells us the most relevant thoughts to the Doctor sans companion are e.g. hostile/friendly, needs/sociability history/technology aspects.
It's only in spare moments that the Doctor bears on emotionality, personality and other such factors without the input of their companions. You know what I said is true, because recall when it is not a spare moment, e.g. when the Doctor stares down a Dalek. The emotional crescendo actively stops the show.
Emotionality and the Doctor is actually a thing writers over the years have struggled with. RTD did a naughty by playing with the emotionality of a character whose baseline is neurodivergent ace and I assume he has tinkered with it again in unaired scripts. And while it does annoy me when people do ace erasure on a character that I was vibing with, it's usually done to open up the character to more stories and that can be a good thing in the hands of a discerning writer.
From a writing and show perspective every character needs some kind of thought economy associated with personality quirks of that particular character or it spoils the fun because you end up with a know-it-all-Mary-Sue and that annoys a lot more people than a little faux pas over pronouns.
Though this convo kind of adds more to the 'male presenting' argument Donna put out later...
I know this stuff is a work of art, but at some point I have to put down the subtext and just enjoy the thing. Thinking can be overrated.
i’m glad the “i’m always The Meep” line saved that scene. in my experience, no one ever went “why are you assuming pronouns?”. usually the person who’s being addressed with the wrong pronoun just corrects the one speaking, and the one speaking tries to adapt.
I agree, asking the question of "how do you know?" vs scolding would have made that conversation a bit more organic. Just have the Doctor being like "good point Rose, thanks. What do you go by?". Instead it came across a bit preachy and heavy-handed, which is what I think Chibnall's writing was bad for and Russell's series always managed to avoid in the past.
Angrily? I don't think you know what angrily sounds like, mate. She was just piping in, a little assertively. But that is not what an angry character looks like.
That's the problem... with the whole episode though. Half of it is just a hamfisted attempt at fitting those things over and over. There are more subtle and interesting ways to put those things in, maybe over more episodes would have worked better too. To me it felt they had a checkbox list of political things they had to mention/say or they wouldn't get the funding, and that was it.
I’ll be honest, to me, the ending, especially the non binary part, felt really forced and kinda tokeny to me, which is making me confused cuz I think the episode started off really well, especially with Donna and Rose’s relationship with each other and all the moments like with Donna saying that she’ll always stick up for Rose and correcting her mum when she accidentally misgendered Rose and all of that, I think all of that was really well done and I genuinely had no issues with the special until the very end, but then the end just felt so cheesy and corny and forced and I’m honestly still confused about it… but I’m really glad you and a lot of others seemed to have enjoyed it a lot, hopefully I can understand where you’re coming from after a couple of rewatches and enjoy it myself but for right now I’m just confused lol
That was exactly the point I was trying to make in my comment, far less eloquently than you. Thank you!
The conversation about letting go of the meta-crisis felt a bit clunky (the dialogue was a *little* on the nose), but in hindsight, after the final episode I guess that the main thread of all three episodes was that the Doctor needs to learn to let go of the guilt and emotional burdens he's taken on (episode one - let go) and stop fixating on what he can't change (episode two - slowing down and calming your thoughts) and then finally episode 3 (play/taking a break, letting yourself heal)
Donna being the parent of a trans daughter resonates with me so much. My oldest came out to me as trans last year and it really touched my feels to watch Donna support Rose in a very similar way that I chose to support my own daughter-in-transition. I loved this show so much, it's one of my faves. There's moments of corny contrivance, but that's not unusual for Doctor Who going back 60 years.
Rose saying ‘Non-binary’ to Donna’s ‘binary’ felt a little strange to me (of course, yes, Rose may very well be female-presenting non-binary) but from the sci-fi angle, my brain had trouble reconciling it. Personally, I think her saying ‘trinary’ would have been more fitting, referring to the meta-crisis trinity of the Doctor, Donna, and Rose.
The idea of ‘letting it go’, I didn’t really have a MASSIVE issue with (my reasoning is that now the meta-crisis is HALVED between Donna and Rose, the grip it has on their respective cortexes is less severe - think of it like trying to free yourself from being trapped under a heavy boulder, when the weight is reduced you might very well be able to push it off yourself), however - the small jab of it not being ‘something a male-presenting Timelord could understand’ felt a little unnecessary to say.
That being said, I also agree with how on-point Donna’s adamant defence of Rose was in front of her bullies as well as her conversation with Sylvia in the kitchen - that felt so grounded and honest and human, perfect to go hand in hand with alien invasions and evil Meeps 👌🏻 THAT’S the duality that this show should carry on flaunting
I had the same issues. Haven't watched the video here yet, so perhaps something is said that will change my mind, but neither of those two lines seemed to fit with the scifi of the thing. That said, not every aspect of a sci-fi show must be sci-fi, but it almost felt like they were trying to "technobabble" transness in a way that didn't feel genuine to me. If much rather have had another of those really amazing human moments like in the kitchen.
All that said, though, amazing episode, amazing representation, and if we're here squabbling over minutiae the excellent representation, then I'd say we're in an excellent place, y'know? :D
I agree that the "not something a male-presenting Timelord could understand" was the most heavy-handed part of the episode. That line actually makes gender more binary and immutable, counteracting the theme of much of the rest of the episode.
Gender is not a prison, so I don't think there's anything that's *impossible* for a man to understand. Maybe statistically less likely to understand, but not impossible.
Also, the Doctor is not human. He's incredibly wise and intelligent, and has seen and done more than we could ever imagine, so it seems strange to assert that there's something the Doctor can't understand. And, as we've seen the Doctor essentially is non-binary at his core. So, it's just really weird to assert that he would be unable to understand something because of the shape of his current body.
@electronics-girl and @elliotblabla I loved the episode, but I didn't understand "not something a male-presenting Timelord could understand" that bit. I was hoping maybe Jessie would say something that explained it to me. You all have come the closest saying it didn't make sense.
It did feel wrong and limiting here.
That entire part kinda took me out of it too. It was a little to much in a short period of time to resolve consequences that lasted 15-years. And the jab at the end... well...I don't know why but to me it has abit of "Girls get it done-momment from Avengers Endgame"-vibes instead of "Girls get it done-momment from The Boys S2"-Vibes.
Yeah. Jessie pointed out how tokenizing and prop-like the representation in Chibnall's era could be and how it was nice to have this episode not be that. But between the "binary" thing and the "male-presenting timelord" line, the end of this episode felt very tokenizing to me as a trans woman. Or maybe a better way of putting it was that I felt a bit condescended to with how ham-fisted and unnecessary both were.
Which sucked because the episode set up these themes so well with Rose, between the sequence with the bullies, the kitchen-scene and the scene with her friend. So it felt like an eye-rolly let-down at the end.
The part that got me the most was seeing 14 running through the new TARDIS like a child on a playground. If I was in his shoes, I would absolutely be doing that.
Watching it like is this 14 or was that just David seeing the set for the first time? 😂
The splitting of the Metacrisis across generations is something that feels like it was cooked up on a fan forum years ago and I’m HERE for it. Love that Rose named herself *because* of the metacrisis, a truly inspired choice.
Also love the Doctor continuing to misremember their gender (“that says mistress”).
Oh! I didn’t pick up that “Rose” thing!
it also explains where she got the name "Rose" from, because that is something I had been wondering about.
@@quantumvideoscz2052 came here to say exactly that. He even groans and tells it to catch up.
Well of course it sounds like it was cooked up in a fan forum. Russell T Davies is perhaps the biggest Whovian of all time, and the writers have to be long time fans to keep from contradicting canon. In the original series that gained fame, "Queer as Folk", One of the two main lead characters, Simon, Is a HUGE "Doctor Who" fan, with every surviving episode on VHS (pre-DVD). K-9 makes an unexpected cameo, and Simon finally realizes the identity of his true love when the guy names all the actors who Played the Doctor in order. It turned out to be a huge success, in spite of some pretty graphic gay sex scenes which were shocking back then, and except for those who too young or raging homophobes, it's a very entertaining look back pre-grindr, when young guys went to the bars to hook up.
And what was the first thing Russell T Davies with his new found fame & influence? He brought back "Doctor Who". I have to laugh when never satisfied whiney little incels proclaim "Doctor Who" has been ruined by that term they all use, but can never define: 'TOO WOKE'. Woke is what brought the Doctor back from oblivion. When pan-sexual Captain Jack Harkness became a companion for a few episodes, he would mostly flirt with Rose, but he also flirted with the Doctor, and a few times the Doctor flirted back.
@@quantumvideoscz2052the clue is in the name “psychic paper”. In the Twelve episode “Dark Water” he shows the psychic paper to Dr Chang who notes that there is alot of swearing to which Twelve responds that he has a lot of internalised anger. Therefore, stating that the Doctor is still forgetting his gender is a reasonable conclusion to draw in the scene with Donna’s husband even if you personally don’t see it that way.
I always took for granted that Jodie Whittaker's Doctor knew what they were talking about regarding the "fam" because Matt Smith's Doctor had experienced actually having one in the Ponds. You've just opened my eyes to the possibility that the Doctor was struggling to make that connection happen and it wasn't working out with Graham, Yasmin, and Ryan. I don't know if it was intentional. It would really have helped if their series had more consistent character writing between the humans. Also, it's really hard to tell the difference between the Doctor being socially compromised, the Doctor being too alien to read the room, and the Doctor just being distracted by their own thoughts and secrets.
Chris Chibnall's entire career has been about exploring characters and small cultures (like teams, families, or small towns/villages) that are slowly, but increasingly becoming disconnected from one another and hiding secrets from each other.
That's undoubtedly a part of what Chibs was trying to do, but I don't think he could figure out how to do that while also playing in the Doctor Who sandbox at the same time.
That said, I still enjoyed most of that era, mostly because of Jodie's charismatic performance, but also there's some great standalone episodes that don't try to dig into those stuff too much and it's good lighthearted fun.
There's also a present theme about colonialism regarding the timelords that Chibs was also really trying to hit on that didn't quite land, but it's there. I think a better writer will pick up on that stuff down the line for sure though.
Did the “Get Woke Go Broke” crowd actually think the return of David Tennant, the 3D Tumblr Sexyman with an NB child and wears that “Leave trans kids alone, you absolute freaks” shirt with glee, actually bring it back from being “SJW”?
its a boring predictable woke fetish. oh look the black woman gives the doctor a "did you assume its gender" talk... nah thats it. they killed the franchise. gowokegobroke
@@quantumvideoscz2052 No that isn’t what I mean by “go woke, go broke” crowd, that is a good critiquing point about the “shame your a man now”, I mean people who will boycott on the dime of trans representation. But yeah it was weird as it would invalidate trans men, as clearly trans men have seen something that is more deeply relatable in the concept of masculinity, but most would have been passing as cis women for a good part of their lives, which means while they could’ve thought closer to a cis man, they still were perceived as a woman externally.
Also, the Doctor is in a nutshell genderfluid, which kinda invalidates their gender identity of this point in their life, including upcoming 15th.
Honestly I hate the sonic screens. The sonic is already used as a crutch by the writers, its why they got rid of it in the 5th doctor era. I really hope the sonic screens will be like the saucer separation scene in encounter at far point. A cool set piece that looks super useful that we will never see again.
Well, they did do saucer separation a few other times over the course of that Enterprise, but I agree that it should be a rare thing.
The sonic screens are established to take quite a long time to create. I suspect that will be the limiting factor.
@@godminnette2 which is also very strange..considering the tech involved in the tardis and the time lords techbase in general.
I love that in response to criticisms that _Doctor Who_ was becoming "too queer" they decided to make it more queer than ever before. I never dreamed that anyone would ever make a show like this, where a trans person would be central and _celebrated_ in the story! Where The Doctor would declare themself(selves?) both male and female and both and more! It's cliched to say at this point, but _I have never felt so seen._ I can't get over how thrilled I am with this return!
And you want to know what's even better? Knowing this is the first!
"Start as you mean to go on."
I am so here for the rest of this new rollercoaster ride!
I love this episode, as a trans gal myself I loved how inclusive it was and how it portrayed the struggles, It was very clunky at times tho, specifically with the asking of the names, like it's fine to ask that obvs but idk just the way it was said felt too robotic ig, and the ending.... Listen, It's putting down male presenting people, it's not right, I dont want a show to say that someone is wrong for being male, it literally goes against it's own message, RTD is trying to be inclusive but he just missed this time. Usually the companion is the one to help the doctor bc they're an arrogent time lord, it's a part of their race, but this time he's wrong because he's a man, it just feels so...... against it's own message, I'm kinda fine with the whole "the doctor is male, female none and all" bc timelords are just not bound by gender and stuff, but it also feels like Rose is non binary simply because of that, not because they chose to be, which just goes against the message.
Donna has always been my absolute favorite companion. A true platonic loving friendship without constantly dangling a carrot of a potential love story. Also like the fact that she complements the Dr so well without having to be as smart as him (other than the Dr Donna). Love Love Love their relationship and towards the end I teared up a bit. I liked how the parts that didn't make sense lined up later, like the car not getting damaged. Although there's a lot of "convenience" in Dr Who that somewhat annoys me with characters not actually figuring things out but rather things just falling into place for "reasons" that are never fully explained.
Same.
@@StephenMatrese Agree 100%
@@Lennonlover06 Maybe in most cases but with River Song, Rose, Claire, and Yaz they certainly implied that he/she was in love with them too. It was always silly that almost every random female human that ended up on the TARDIS would immediately fall in love with the Dr. even though he was an alien who never showed affection to anyone.
Donna changed that and made it absolutely clear upfront that she was never going to feel that way towards him and it was super refreshing.
Donna has always been my least favourite but I think Catherine Tate was the best part of this episode. She's great at playing a protective mum.
Looks like old Donna is back at the end though. Less great for me personally but I hope her fans enjoy it 🙂
I loved it. I kind of wish that when the Doctor called the Meep "he" that Rose would have instead asked what pronouns the Meep preferred rather than asking the Doctor why he assumed they were a he. The line about a male presenting Time Lord not understanding giving up power felt a touch clunky, but these are very minor nitpicks and my reaction is probably just a product of my own biases (which I work hard to address). Overall it was a brilliant return to form after Chibnall and a nice peek at where we might go.
I read Rose chastising the Doctor as a knee-jerk reaction caused by the bullying she was getting/alluded to earlier.
@@Dire_Pants I hadn't considered that. Good point!
I mean, as a trans woman, I have issues with the line as well (although, yeah, it's really a nitpick) and that's that it's not something a trans person would actually say? It feels based on "Don't assume my gender" stereotypes. Very much "trans person obviously written by a cis person" in that line.
Fortunately, that was the ONLY line I noticed like that. Everything else was quite well done.
What I *did* like is that, even though the Meep turns out to be evil, they never misgender the Meep. They call the Meep "the Meep" every time after that.
@@kabobawsome When you say cis person you mean male? I mean there is no cis in front of it.
Those couple lines threw me off just a tiny bit as well, but I chalked it up to probably somebody cis trying. I can respect that even if it's a little clunky so long as it is sincere.
I appreciate that Doctor Who is usually a lot better than other sections of the BBC on LGBTQ+ stuffs.
I love the scene where the Doctor hands the sonic screwdriver to Donna without even looking back. He knew she was there and would hold the sonic for him.
For me, the biggest tragedy of Donna’s mind wipe was that she went back to thinking that she was nobody special. The Doctor helping her refute that thinking once and for all (of course you matter, because you matter to me) was probably the most triumphant moment in the episode for me.
I read The Star Beast in the 80s when Marvel reprinted some of the UK strips in the US, so I knew the “Meep Twist” going in. I would strongly recommend reading it anyway, as it’s some solid storytelling and some really good pre-Watchmen Dave Gibbons art.
One of the few Who comics I ever read.
It hurt. Back when it aired, clever American friends figured out how to watch DW early, while the rest of us had to wait months to see it on BBCA (ugh, getting the Christmas specials in July). So I had warning I'd be very upset about Donna.
Thinking a little more, esp while reading negative ish elsewhere. Just a couple thoughts.
Donna is the best mom, just rewatched the kitchen scene & she takes my breath away. And Rose has such a wonderful family overall. Grandma’s a little confused, curious, loving, totally normal. Some folks seem to think all this is a political push for trans rights (though y’know, they can sure see it that way if they like, I fully support that view) but to me the “domestics” as I think the 9th would call it, is simply a bright view of what can happen positively in a loving accepting family with a trans child. It’s normal life, people. That there is exactly the kind of vision I want to see on my TV.
As the mom of a trans daughter, I’m feeling massively included, supported and thrilled today. Never ever expected that! Yay for Who, Davies, Talalay, actors, and absolutely every creator on this ep.
And like Donna I will absolutely descend on anyone who wants to fight me or denigrate my child or her friends. I happily accept the Donna power.
Thx for the space here, feeling lots better 😅❤️
How old is your daughter?
@@noseriouslyimserious4073 trans kids are like vegan cats we all know whos choice it was. Hopfully in the future these people can be charged with the child abuse they have brought on their poor confused children.
I loved that scene too. I'm trans and before my grandmothers passed away both tried to be supportive but neither fully understood and messed things up a lot. Like with Donna's mom it was never malicious and it was always an honest mistake from someone who really did love me, and nobody ever got mad at them for it. There's a huge difference between older relatives being bigoted and just not fully "getting it" and I love that they took the time to show that. This scene feels like it was written by a trans person or the parent of a trans person because it's something that actually does happen a lot
It's not Rose Tyler, it's Rose Temple-Noble.
Haha You caught that, too. 😅
LOL I just kept going "Noble" every time she said it. @@AlearaJL
I thought it was an adorable mistake. :D
I felt watching it that the language they used was vague and tip-toey in the first half as if it was treating the identity of the character (and by extension the actress) as a mystery to be solved by the viewer.
It felt like i was being asked to transvestigate the actress in a meta sense which rubbed me the wrong way.
The finale also seemed written very confusingly, it describes the doctor and donna being two parts of a binary of the metacrisis and Rose being a non-binary balance to it, which just seems at odds with how she expresses gender as explicitly feminine. If you are confindently female being conflated with non-binary or genderfluid identities gives the appearance of a lack of knowledge and lumping everything south of "normal" into an otherizing group.
If thats not what what they were going for and that they were saying 'the doctor is non-binary because of course they are' then it wasnt spelled out very clearly from my perspective, and it's also not true of what we know about the doctor who more closely represents gender fluidity.
Again, your mileage may vary but i got the impression that the team was very confused about what they actually wanted to express beyond using progressive terminology and vaguely agressing the DR's relationship with gender
BTW, technically Rose Noble is not the first trans person in the Doctor Who universe. That distinction might actually go to Cleo Parker (played by Charlie Craggs) from the radio story, "Doctor Who: Redacted".
Casssandra the awesome face-skin lady was also trans though she only just slipped that in there. I feel like they did trans some timelords in the classics but that's just the vibe of my childhood memories. The General(?) towards the end of Capaldi's era also did the switch. I loved Capaldi's attitude toward the end, he really suited his electric guitar.
there are a few trans people in the audio stories - Eleanor Blake (the jabari countdown, 2018), Tania Bell (stranded, 2020-22) and Calypso Jonze (main range, 2020-21) are the ones i can think of off the top of my head, but there's probably more
A lot of things made me tear up and the disability representation was definitely one of those things. Even though it was a short moment with the stairs he went a step further to bring attention to not only disability but accessibility as well. I’m not in a wheelchair but I would not have been able to make it up those stairs. Sometimes I can’t make it up a regular flight of stairs. And she was a badass but not in an”inspiration, you can do anything!” type of way. Idk it just got me so emotional.
That was good, so spot on!
One thing that might be coincidental, but it also might be an accessibility nod made visual, was the TARDIS interior. Ramps, no stairs.
@@koivunen2489 you’re so right how did I not pick up on that haha
She was absolutely fantastic! And the instant rapport she had with the Doctor was very charming, I hope we see a lot more of her.
The instant they got in the elevator, I thought, "Oh, wait... there's an elevator after all. I bet that's going to be significant." And it was, just a few seconds later.
While I did enjoy the episode, what caught me off guard that was that it was a stand alone episode. Going into it I really thought these 3 specials were gonna be a big 3 parter really digging deep into dealing with Donnas condition and slowly regaining her memory. I can't help feeling a little bit cheapened by how quickly it was resolved and easily explained in just one episode. Especially since that the erasure of her memories was such an impactful moment back in the days, so I can't help feeling this took abit away from that.
It did allow the next episode to be this wonderful return to a classic Tennant and Tate episode which I adore but I just can't get it out of my head that T.Davies resolved Donnas-story abit to quickly out of convenience.
I very much disliked the way they handled a lot of the trans stuff in the epsiode I'm not gonna lie, I thought the whole "we let it go" scene was terrible like it fundamentally misunderstands the doctor. The doctor is genderfluid!!! It sort of implied that being feminine presenting gives you an elevated level of emotional maturity. I hated the whole "you would understand if you were her" thing, as if the 13th and 14th doctors werent the same person? The doctor just spent a whole regeneration being feminine presenting and for Donna and Rose to be like "you could never understand" is SO invalidating. It's also just kind of sexist, like, why should they just let it go?? I love the idea of them embracing it and being half timelord. It was also just such a cop out story-wise and completely threw out all the emotional weight of Donna's memories being taken.
Also the scene where a bunch of bullies shout Rose's deadname at her.... completely unnecessary, we did not need to know her dead name, the whole scene felt so mean-spirited. Like I have been shouted at and harrassed for being trans and I do not need to see that in every single piece of media with a trans person in it.
And the whole "dont assume the meep's pronouns" thing felt way too self-congratulatory, like "hey guys we used an inclusive phrase!" without actually knowing how to apply that phrase/concept in the real world.
I did however love Rose and Donna's relationship, they were very wholesome and Rose was a great character, even if she had a lot of wasted potential to be a cool half timelord.
Same. Granted, I'm non-binary and gender essentialism is a major trigger for me, so I'm very miffed that it showed up in Who and in such a way. But it also undermined the progressive intent that RTD clearly had with this episode.
Which is quite odd from such a talented and sociopolitically aware writer. I wonder whether he was so focussed on sticking it to the bigots that he forgot to check whether some of the stuff he was saying *was* actually good stuff to say, or something.
I think it was a bit silly having the trans character win "because they're trans" rather than just having the trans character win because they do a cool/smart thing
Yeah it felt condescending and a bit insulting that RTD felt like he needed to go that far to be "inclusive" instead of just having a trans character be there and treating them just like all other characters. Imagine it was something like Rose being mixed race was the solution to the problem after all. Think of how much of a shitstorm that would cause.
Also I felt like Rose was a pretty boring character that didn't have that much of a personality outside of "the trans character". They really should've written her better IMO
This episode was really good, The only thing I didn't really like is how easily they got rid of the doctor energy from both of them. It felt very much like a deus ex machina to me. if she could just let it go now why couldn't she just let it go then? it's the tragedy of her story. She is my favorite companion and to have her tragic story kind of just easily fixed was alittle disappointing. I think they could of found a much more interesting way to do it, I also liked how most of the themes weren't beat over your head like in jodie's run, The doctor imo in the past was always good at having serious themes and messages weaved in with clever writing which is what I think makes doctor who so special. This was a great return to form, Im sure some of that might be rooted in nostalgia but it was really good seeing them bounce off eachother again.
Because she didn’t have a child then
I think the entire reasoning that Donna and Rose were able to let the metacrisis go is because of Rose. Rose is someone who didn't just accept what she was given in terms of the gender society had assigned her based on characteristics she had no control over, she became someone else and let her previous identity go. It seems tied, if that makes sense.
@@ThatElfTorunn So if Donna's child was AFAB and transitioned into a boy, would this not have worked because the child was male presenting? It's clunky af and just insultingly bad
I was very moved by how good and supportive of a mother Donna seems to be, especially knowing how hers used to be towards her.
One thing I loved about the episode is that they showed Sylvia trying really, really hard to be a better mother, and not always succeeding. I love seeing realistic progress in situations like that.
David was who I wanted to be as a kid and I credit his portrayal of unabashed enthusiastic passion for the sheer joy at the complicated, insane, gorgeous nature of the universe and absolute blazing empathy for life and engaging with it as hard as you can with helping me avoid the worst sorts of thing you can want to be as a kid.
I've been cosplaying my hero since I was in high school, and ever since Tennant stood up for trans people in the UK I've been so fucking happy every time I see the pinstripes and trench hanging on my door.
He gave me something that's pulled me away from a lot that's bitter and hateful and gave me things to be proud of that I might have lost with a different hero, and I'm so happy he's standing up for what's right.
I was worried his return would be pandering, that it would make me a little cynical about his portrayal of bravely choosing optimism in the face of tragedy, and instead I get to be happy to have more of my hero.
This has meant so much to me, and I'm so happy we all get to share in that.
The show is silly, and bad sometimes, but what's good about it means so much to me.
This episode really was: "Meep meep motherf***ers!"
I thought this episode was pretty good, cope and seethe fascists, Russell T Davies will make the show even more woke than before. I do have one complaint in that the climax was too quickly and too neatly resolved but aside from that I think this episode proved that Davies still got it and I can't wait for the rest of the specials and Ncuti Gatwa's tenure as the Doctor next year.
I kinda agree. I really loved this episode. David tenant just slipped right back into the role and was just doing all of the doctor stuff. It was such a fun episode. I also do kinda agree that the ending conflict felt a bit too quickly finished. Like Donna's remembering and probably dying was quickly resolved and it kinda took the tension out but I loved all the other bits.
The anti wokes are really going to hate the actor playing the 15th Doctor! Black and Queer? Oh no, get your diapers on bigots it's going to be a bumpy ride! 😆
Doctor who ended really with Capaldi as Doctor woke was pure cringe. No one seethed as such, more laughed and simply didn't watch it.
Box ticking to please a small minority of the confused brigade took over good writing.
@@JAWS-dn8fm except you guys still watch and obsess over it nonstop lmao
Yes but it is in the storyline as I don't take notice of woke stuff as too much action going on and it doesn't feel like it's rambed down throat.
I liked the physic paper not being updated yet. Also when Donna entered the ship saying "well that's enough running".
I’m going back to rewatch with subtitles, I think I missed a load of great bits!
Even the psychic paper has no idea what's going on xD
The psychic paper saying "mistress" was one of the funniest things in the whole episode.
Its not even funny though you’re destroying things people enjoy and can escape from during hard times you know true doctor fans but nah its doctor them/they now
Considering David Tennant as Crowley in Good Omens was how I figured out I was genderfluid, David being a genuinely supportive person to trans people has ment so much to me and I was definitely crying quite a bit with the conclusion of this episode.
Is it weird that I'm grateful that the 'outrage merchants' as you so cleverly put it were so deeply upset by this? Like... it's a feeling of "Good, stay mad, get out of the fandom. We don't want your bigotry here" despite the fact that I try very hard to not gatekeep.
Jessie Gender: I will defend David Tennant until I die!
Me: I'm pretty sure that's mutual, given Tennant's fierce defence of trans folks.
The Meep was just too cute. It felt calculated from its first scene for me. Very satisfying that it was all an act
I burst into tears when I saw the new Tardis set. The last five years have been rough for a lot of reasons, but the state of Doctor Who hit especially close to home. I hated not liking the show. This new bright, spacious, gorgeous control room felt like all my renewed hope and joy at the upcoming era manifested in architecture.
It's my headcanon that the bit with the Doctor running around the new console room was actually David's first sight of the set, they happened to have cameras rolling, and they just decided that was perfect. 😉
Also, the TARDIS brought back the Round Things for the New Old Doctor, which is rather sweet.
Had a couple of issues with it but overall I liked it. I don't have the same nostalgia for 10 and Donna as others so I didn't have that view.
1) Hated the end theme.
2) Some bad writing in having the Doctor explain the Donna thing pre-titles and then have the same exact explanation in the episode. Word for word.
3) This one may get people mad but I am trying to explain it the best way. I loved Rose and how they dealt with her and the issues she was having. I didn't like the whole wrap up of solving the Donna remembering things as just let it go and you wouldn't understand as you identify as male. Just didn't land right with me, I even thought what does it say about trans men. Could have done it differently. I hope people understand what I am saying.
Really loved the new console room. Hope it stays. Had a bit of every room. The classic series, the round dome feel of 10, the stairs all over the place of Smith, the under the console of Capaldi. Not crazy about the round sci-fi doors but that is minor. I hope it stays/
Again over all I liked it. I really ca't wait for the 15th Doctor.
Yeah, the end theme was…weird. Especially the fact it sounded so different from the theme in the opening credits.
5:45 Not only was she a positive example of disability representation, but she ACTUALLY SAID "DON'T MAKE ME THE PROBLEM", it was great! We don't want to be infantilized, we understand that things have to be different.
I though Donna's Mom (Sylvia?) asking if what she said about/to Rose was ok was great. Even who I talk to my cis-daughter, I have similar thoughts.
God, I am so thrilled that Donna got to make her own choice about her life! Seriously great episode and love ya, Jessie!
Its nit though donna sacrifice was meaningful now it’s destroyed :/
Yea. Just retcon everything great from the golden era for a higher ESG score.
Its not just "theres a trans person" that people are annoyed by. Its how they went about it. I dont understand how hard it is to understand: dont tear down what people love to build up diverse characters. You dont need to say "youre an idiot because youre a male doctor" to make the point that the trans character figured something out. It was pointlessly petty and spiteful.
We just exist. It was RTD's decision for this.
The 10th is my doctor so I’m bias towards anything he or the actor is in. Also Donna is one of my favorite tv supporting characters of all time.
I liked the episode but that “ male presenting doctor wouldn’t understand “ and “ I’m more “ was cringy to me also just sexist as if your gender is more important than who you are. There a concept of gender moral superiority that I think is counter productive to equality. Loved that they showed the challenges Rose faced at being teased and Rose’s grandmother trying but still having challenges all felt organic.
As far as disability representation the population deserves to betrayed as villains , heroes , greedy, selfless , paragons of morality and corrupt characters. They deserve to be represented as people just like everyone else.
Tennant has a nonbinary kid, so it makes sense why he's such a strong ally.
I respect trans people. I believe their deserve recognition in tv. Never would I disrespect entire community to elevate myself.
The Sonic Screwdriver being able to draw “hard light” constructs reminded me of those Disney Channel idents where the performers drew the logo in the air with a “magic wand”…
I did feel the episode was a little rushed but I can absolutely see a certain type of Who fan absolutely loosing their minds, feck em, absolutely feck em, this is a Doctor for the people that need it.
Oh yes!!! I have a big grin on my face as I just finished it wow! It's so good seeing Donna and The Doctor again! I love the representation, that was brilliant! I love that and it makes sense! That Tardis interior looked so gorgeous, I just wanted to run around It as well. The Meep was very interesting, cool design, haven't read the story, but was entertained. I'm very curious to see where we go, but to understand why that face returned and where this is leading us. Excellent review and love the sonic!
David Tennant is not only my favorite Doctor Who but he is a great actor. I've seen him in many other movies and TV shows.
For me Donna and her daughter being rude and disrespectful to the doctor spoilt the show
The only moment that felt weird to me was Rose telling the Doctor that a male-presenting Time Lord wouldn't understand how to let go.
The male-presenting 12th Doctor's last line was literally "Doctor, I let you go."
So that moment was weird. But everything else was really damn good.
Also, you know RTD is back because the Doctor reverses all of the structural damage to London by basically flipping a rewind switch. Physics and science be damned. 😂
THIS.
I swear he ripped off that switch from "Tak: The Hideous New Girl" XD
I’m so jazzed, this was a brilliant episode. My hearts breaking with joy when I realised what Rose’s plush crochets were (in particular Satan). Mom Donna is best Donna
She was a real mama bear as my sister would say.
The holograms and forcefields aren't new! Twelve did both! Fourteen just has different controls and interfaces and is using them in different ways.
I loved The Star Beast! It was great to see Tennant and Tate back again. Yasmin Finney is a great edition. I had a smile on my face the entire episode! It was just so much fun! I do wish Fourteen was a little less like Ten. He’s supposed to be a different incarnation. I thought there was something fishy going on with The Meep and the Wreath Warriors. But I didn’t call The Meep being the villain and the Wreath Warriors being like intergalactic criminal court police. Miriam Margolyes was excellent as The Meep. I really like the way they both reactivated the meta-crisis with the “binary, binary, binary” glitch repetition and then solved the meta-crisis with it being male, female, binary, and non-binary. And that Rose inherited the meta-crisis. It was very reminiscent of River having Time Lord powers. But the meta-crisis solution of “let it go” just felt a little anticlimactic. The new TARDIS looks a little too clean and clinical. The TARDIS is alive. It should have a personality. And they are putting that Disney money to work with those fantastic VFX. If we do get that UNIT spin-off, I hope Shirley is in it.
I would like to see what makes 14 different from 10 but you've got to admit seeing Tennant just own that role once again as 10 radiates pure joy. That man loves being The Doctor to a degree where I would bet money he does The Doctor voice when on his own and thinking .
@@oscarshedwick4862 I agree. I loved seeing Tennant back in the role. It was like watching Ten all over again. But that's partially my problem.
Also, if this anthology spin-off goes ahead, we need a sitcom-style episode of the Wrarth Warriors sharing a precinct with the Judoon.
Damnit, now I’m imagining the B99 cast as Judson and Wrarth Warriors.
And I’m also wondering which characters would be which species either thematically appropriate, or hilariously contrasting.
Rosa as a Meep; Boyle as a Sontaran.
Rose "Tyler" XD oopsies! you mean Rose Noble :) and yes, Trans representation
For the Win! 💙🏳⚧
My wife saw this one before I did, and she complained that for a show that was trying so hard to be inclusive of gender identities, the ending seemed oddly gender-essentialist--that there would be things women instinctively understand that a "male-presenting Time Lord" couldn't, even if he WAS a woman quite recently, and also the way it gives Rose's trans-ness a peculiar science-fiction explanation instead of it just being a thing that people are.
I finally did see it yesterday evening and I can see where she's coming from. But I also think your obvious delight at it, as representation, makes me feel a bit better about all that.
The whole thing was pure diarrhoea and not worthy of the original 1980 comic strip.
Kind of inspired-yet-clunky, maybe rushed but certainly fun and sweet, that's my RTD. It's amazing that this was the best visually the production has ever been, and it's for _Beep the Freaking Meep,_ of all things! Margolyes chewing it up! Amazing combo of puppet, suit, and animation work. I grew up with these comics from the 80s UK Doctor Who magazine so it's a trip to see some of that more fantastic stuff realized on television. This actually makes me 90% more confident that somebody would finally dare to try an episode with Frobisher - usually a shape-shifting penguin. Who is amazing.
Amazingly enough, it seems Americanizing Doctor Who with the giant mouse has…worked astonishingly well! See BBC, us Yanks get Who too…😅😁
Srsly though, I remember a time when a character like Beep the Meep was considered a strictly comics-only character as there was no way to properly show the character in live-action…now look at where we’re at, as Beep the Meep has made their live-action debut and it was WONDERFUL! 😍🥰😁
If this is what we can come to expect from a somewhat Americanized version of Doctor Who, then honestly SIGN ME UP! 😅😍🥰😁
So is the Meep saying the definite article "The" is the way to refer to him a callback to "Robot" where Tom Baker said he's the definite article as THE Doctor?
This was to me a very good story, well made and to hear the characters saying that the doctor is neither male nor female, but both and neither at the same time. Its a little bit like my own version of Merlin, who is also male, female, extremely old and extremely young at the same time.
Well the doctor was always male. Then turned into Jodie who is female.
But Jodies version was no longer Doctor Who. I mean that's just being honest. The whole thing was more like a patronising "hey would like a go too little child?" He was always a he never established as a motherdite.
On the plus side it was good comedy value though.
@@JAWS-dn8fm Before she even became the doctor there was two mentions of time lords changing to a woman. The time lord who was forcefully regenerated and the one outside the universe with the tattoo.
@@FishyFly If its part of the character and story but just not done before then great! I image given some of the takes of doctors who's cringy persona (Matt Smith for instance) some incarnations would be better suited with a female actress anyway. Thats why when it first aired I was looking forward to watching it. But what's with the genderless nonsense? Still either forms male or female. It's when it's used as a forced box ticking PC stunt over good story telling that it just becomes eye rollingly cringe.
@@JAWS-dn8fm While the forms individually are man or woman, the fact that the doctor as a singular character can switch between being a man and woman. If they weren't some kind of non-binary and were more cis the change would be dysphoric. So, if the doctor was just a man or just a woman it would functionally be a trans experience just for the whole being seen as what they aren't. Since they can change genders as easily as sex, they would be, in human terms, genderfluid or at least gender apathetic.
@@FishyFlyperhaps even agender since they have mentioned on a few occasions when it comes to gender that they don't care all that much I think capaldi mentioned it once with bill but I am not sure if I am misremembering
I did feel a bit like some of the representation was done with a heavy hand. And the scene towards the end with the "you wouldn't understand" was very cringe-worthy to me, especially with the lines said were just contradictory and has the vibes of TERFy bio-essentialism in a weird way? It felt like a conflating of 2nd, 3rd, and 4th wave feminist theory.
The Meep being evil seemed way too obvious to me. Initially I was thinking that maybe they would suspect it being evil then it would turn out to be genuinely innocent at the end, but after so much time passed it was clear it was going to be evil.
Also, Donna spilling coffee on the console at the end was so extremely telegraphed and took so long to happen, it made everything between her getting the coffee and spilling it drag as I was just waiting for it to happen.
Also, I don't know if I fully felt the vibe of the Doctor and Donna... Maybe we'll get a vibe and chemistry back later on. I don't need or even want the same vibe they once had, as they're different people now, but I hope we see a more interesting dynamic for the next episode.
I was kind of annoyed that the Doctor took like two minutes deliberating over giving her her memories back, and then the things she had to do with her knowledge weren't even that extensive. He easily could have coached her through it with the time remaining, lol. I expected it to be much more involved. I don't know, it's a silly CinemaSins style nickpick but some of those really stand out to me when they're this ridiculous.
It was fine, overall. I enjoy Rose, I enjoy the new sonic powers and the new tardis interior, even if I tend to prefer the more dark and grisly feeling ones. Having one reminiscent of the first doctor is neat. Most of the writing was better overall.
I was disappointed Wilf didn't show up (yet?).
Personally I was a bit disappointed by the TARDIS. It felt a bit too clean and empty to me but the light changing the colour is great. Maybe it will grow on me. Will we see where the doors go?
Yes, it felt like a futuristic airport concourse, empty in the middle of the night but still brightly lit.
Wilf will be there. In E2 or E3. Sadly, actor that played him (Bernard Cribbins) died shortly after he finished filming his scenes :(
So Doctor Who was his final role...which kind of fit's, since he played Doctor's companion back in 1960s!
Yes, he played Doctor's companion in (now non canon) 1960s movie "Daleks' Invasion Earth 2150 A.D." :)
@@inquerion8867 What do you mean the now non-canon daleks movies. They have always been their own weird thing. The doctor is now a human called Dr Who played by Peter Cushing.
I know it was his final role. I feel like the might not of quite filmed all they wanted too. Since he died not long after the announcement of David Tennant and Catherine Tate's return.
I would love to see where the doors go. We always get the sense that the TARDIS is enormous with many rooms, but most of the time we only ever see the one room.
I'm not sure I really saw much sound structure in Rose's story.
Like, what exactly changed by the end that made her feel like she was "finally [herself]"?
And I thought her main issue was just how people regularly othered her. Seemed like she knew who she was but just didn't feel welcome - not something that easily gets character arc'd away irl.
The metacrisis was used as a metaphor for her trans-ness. She "felt like she was from another planet" because she actually had the dormant mind of a time lord, just as she at one point felt weird about her gender because she was actually a nonbinary woman. When she lets the metacrisis go, her mind (time lord) and body (human) are finally one and the same, both human. Just as before her mind (nonbinary woman) and her body (once AMAB) once aligned into both being nonbinary woman.
@@kabobawsome Do you think that's adequatte plant and payoff?
I'm trying to think what could've been missing that would've made me understand how this is a cathartic resolution for Rose, beyond the allegory angle.
Maybe I need to watch it again. Probably missed a lot of things.
It was a little abrupt dramatically. It makes sense with Rose’s feelings of alienation being somewhat explained by the metacrisis etc. But the scene was played a little weird so it could feel like “did I miss something?” It wasn’t just that she was bullied or trans, she also mentioned sometimes feeling like an alien even beyond that. They set up a lot of things and tried to bring it all together in one sentence in an awkwardly chosen spot.
@@jackdavinci See, I understand the writer's incentive to hide the clues in plain sight, letting us all assume "I feel like an alien" isn't meant to be taken literally, but if it's meant to tie into the emotional catharsis at the end I think it's a little misguided.
While it would have ruined the surprise, I think we needed to see things going on with Rose's head, coinciding with Donna feeling like "something's missing" so we'd know they're connected, somehow.
Would've made for its own intrigue, making us wonder what it'd build to.
@@Mayeur000Donz they tried to fit too much into the episode for sure. I loved most of it, but parts of it felt a bit rushed.
Seeing Doctor Who reviews again feels like coming home
Loved this episode. My heart radiated with genderfluid joy. As a parent of a trans son, seeing my kid in full trans joy was a thing of beauty. May this episode give that joy for decades to come. That wheelchair was kickass. The subtle nods to the past was a good thread to the story. I swear Tony Stark designed the new U.N.I.T building. (Companions! Assemble.) I echo your review. Finally, what is up with cute yet malevolent critters beginning with the letter 'M' this year? (Lower Decks, I'm looking at you.)
Well the new versions aren't about story telling or about the real Doctor who any more, just a box ticking adventure to please the small minority of the alphabet brigade.
Did anyone else notice that Unit HQ looks like the Avengers Tower lol
I loved the episode and had no real problems with any of the "wokeness" or whatever the haters are calling it. The one issue I have is the scene where Donna and Rose release the metacrisis energy feeling *forced*. It could have spent more time in the oven, so to speak.
Like....the Doctor just regenerated from being a woman not long ago (from their perspective), so how is it that the Doctor wouldnt understand just because they're in a male body? 🤔 They arguably have a broader experience than anyone. I liked the explanation about how adding a third person wouldn't make it binary anymore, but what does that have to do with gender?
I also like that The Meep is always The Meep. Hail to the Most High!
Correct me if I'm wrong (and I don't mean to be offensive I'm just confused) but up until now I always thought trans and nonbinary were two different things
I also really liked the episode tho
Oof, ok... Let's be real for a moment, because that lecture moment about "how a male-presenting time lord doesn't let go easily" does sound mean, even agressive towards the Doctor and specially considering how the doctor has been able of leting his or her current incarnation go in order to be able to regenerate in the past, even if they struggled with the idea of radically changing and becoming someone else. They had let companions go on with their lives, not to mention that he has let them die and has honored their sacrifice and their memories.
If we apply the same principle to how they (Donna and Rose, her daughter) got rid of the metacrisis energy, RTD could have written something like "Doctor, you should know better than anyone that regeneration can't be fighted, only accepted, and we accept to let it go" or something like that. Because seriously, the doctor is a millennial life form that has treated beings of all genders and non-genders throughout time and space and it is just NOW that he needed to be educated about it? Even after being a woman? It's not like he forgot that he was 13th or anything, that was just RTD puting a problem where there was none just like the davros issue. And the most absolute proof is how he reacted to the someones comment online that said in an ironic way how the cyberman might be a "hurtful" image to the users of artificial prostheses that needs to be changed. He simply mocked and that was it, if you ask me that doesn't seem like a very open mind thing to do.
Well, my dear (may I say my dear?)... you opened my eyes. The dinosaurs in Jurassic Parc were trans. I will never watch that movie again. :D
I hope you either watched or get the chance to watch Doctor Who Unleashed Jessie! Having a Doctor Who Confidential reboot is wonderful, and it included an interview with Yasmin Finney and Russell T Davies about the character of Rose Noble and the importance of having representation on Doctor Who
I think she has to find a way because an international official Unleashed release hasn’t quite been made known
When are we going to get a bald Doctor? I wonder if I cry, scream and spit a butt plug out too we'll get a doctor with male pattern balding?
Oh no that's right, I don't feel every work of fiction and storytelling has to be all about me and can enjoy it regardless.
Maybe he'll regenerate into a midget next! Oooh that would be so brave!🥰
He'd have an advantage against the Daleks though, they'd never see him coming!
@@JAWS-dn8fm Oh do you want a tantrum Doctor?
@@DigiRangerScott Well having a tantrum and hissy fit obviously works!👍
@@DigiRangerScott I hope she does, for me Doctor Who Confidential was every bit as much as part of the Saturday tradition as Doctor Who itself was. Watching it as an adult and getting insight into the making of the show, from sets to costumes to writing, is so fun. Does a deep dive into individual episodes that I really appreciate.
It was everything you'd expect from Russell T Davies, David Tennant and Catherine Tate. While I've loved all eras of the show, their era was particularly magical. And it's a wonderful gift to the fans that the magic is BACK!
That's insane that there's a discourse around davros being disabled and losing disabled representation. His original representation was not disabled because he was the founder of the Daleks and in his prior reincarnation he was exactly like the Daleks but now if they keep his human form once the Daleks are made then yes he would be disabled. His original design was clearly a human Dalek hybrid if he doesn't become a human Dalek hybrid then that would devalue his value to the Daleks. He would be in Pierre and we need to be exterminated. This goes to my prior comment about how quality control and no respect for Canon exists because this is simply not just a character redesign this is a redesign that completely ignores the ideology of the Daleks. I do not see the Daleks taking orders from Adore Me human walking around on two legs. They would go exterminate exterminate exterminate davros!
I love the fact that the abilities of the sonic screwdriver are always focused on unlocking things and openning doors. But now we have abilities based on protecting the things you love, creating screens to get everyone to safety. And then those screens can also be used as another form of "unlocking", working as a computer screen to access knowledge in a database. Once again emphasising the non-violent, pro-growth and anti-destructive nature at the core of Doctor Who. Brilliant!
But it's not even the sonic screwdriver now 😢
@@normietwiceremoved I'm not sure why you're upset, but I personally would like some technobabble to go with that new plot device and I'ma gonna try not to hold out for it.
I love your enthusiasm for the story. I'm writing my own review tomorrow so welcome your positive energy. I thought the reveal about Rose's garden shed and plush toys was terrific.
The Doctor being able to admit they love again is a leftover sentiment from 13 whom never ceased to talk about the things she loved in the universe. First Doctor of the "new Who" era that seemed to be healing from the Time War events and found that wonder and love in the galaxy again like they used to be. It's reflected in how 14 is portrayed now as opposed to how they were as 10.
Fantastic representation of a trans character. I expected no less from RTD.
Loved it. ❤
This is the fan you have attracted , BBC!
Imagine how bad it will be when Tate and Tennant has gone?
RIP Dr Who
I love how we are all using this comment section to talk about doctor who, but also boost this video ✨
I can't tell if I'm just emotionally stunted.
Everyone else seems to have been bouncing in their seats with this episode but it was just kind of okay, for me?
I kind of feel that way, too.
Same. Pretty meh about it, tbh.
Nah you just aren't as into it as others and thats totally fine
My (hasn't figured out how yet but is totally) trans husband just watched this episode and then happily babbled at me about how happy it made him for 5 uninterrupted minutes! I'm getting the splashback of his trans joy, and anything that makes the daily mail mad is joyful for both of us!
Hi there. I hope it comes through by the fact I literally made an account on a burner that I'm uncomfortable sharing my own experiences to my name because of how much it's traumatized me, but I would be remiss to not say SOMETHING. ANYTHING. In response to this.
As someone who medically has been through a lot of hormonal treatment for issues beyond my control (which is just like dysphoria, I am absolutely 100% of the belief that the cure for dysphoria is proper reinforcement of how they feel, and giving the finger to anyone who tries to deny them what makes them happy), this kind of talk... happens to me a lot.
Now, I'm not trying to say you don't know your partner or anything, and it's important to track how those you care about feel... but describing someone you know as "not having figured it out yet"?
I just hope you don't talk about your partner like that to your friends. I've had friends over the years call me an egg, insinuate they knew more about me than they did, I even had a partner try to convince me because I experienced dysphoria, or I like some girly things, that I was trans.
I'm not. I've been through dysphoria, hell, I had A-cups due to the treatment I was on for a while, I asked myself that same question many others do at that age, and I've been through it all because of it. I'm a guy. I know I'm a guy, I don't WANT to be a girl, and there's a lot of trauma because of what happened to my body, what needed to happen to keep me alive, and how I felt then that makes me so, so uncomfortable, and angry, and so many other things when people insinuate my identity without knowing who I am or what I've been through.
If your partner ends up being a husband? Fantastic (reference intended)! But, isn't it your job as a partner to not assume how they feel? To not make that decision for them? Do they KNOW you talk about them like this? I'd be upset. I WAS upset. I'm not saying that it's going to be the case for your partner but, my god, I remember that partner telling all my friends I was going to announce it any day now and they were sure.
It literally brings me to tears thinking about it. I hope I'm wrong, I hope you guess right, but I also hope, in my heart, that you give them the space to decide this for THEMSELVES. Because that's what this should be about. Not you, how you feel, what YOU think. What THEY identify as. Don't guess, ask. Be like Rose, ask, don't assume.
I hope you're having a brilliant day, and are enjoying the brand new Doctor Who content. As well, thank you for your time. I hope you and your partner stay together for as long as time continues forward for both of you.
@@JohnJimbus Yo, I raised a slight eyebrow at this comment too, but then I realized I have zero context. You should left this one in the drafts
Dispite all the clues being there it still took me years to come out to myself.
Sometimes you stop yourself from knowing for all manner of reasons. Those who are truly closest to you can figure you out sometimes. Like, say, a spouse.
I identify as a strong robot. I've applied to the council for a grant to have my walls turned to polystyrene bricks so when I hit them my metallic hands don't bleed and the bricks can break. But they're bigots and won't supply me the grant😠
I like that Doctor Who is so inclusive but when they make the cybermen/people/persons as the bad guys it demonises machines like myself so Chibnall is a big fat bigot!! Though I love they did address my needs in the episode about being robophobic so I'm holding out some hope!🤞We will all fight normal people together!❤ peace out✌️🥰
Seeing rose shine up, and the gift they received at birth of remembering stuff they never saw, I was soooo excited ! And it made so much sense !
Tho I've been weirded out by the "girl power" resolution at the end, it was a great episode with a mostly nice conclusion ! I hope we will see more of Rose ! (why are you saying Rose Tyler in the video by the way? )
I too really liked this episode. The directing, dialogue and characterization all felt greatly improved and I want more. And bringing in Beep! A villain that go way back in Who but have not been on screen before, most suiting for 60th anniversary. And Gold is back, music is way better. It was not perfect, it felt a bit rushed and was too heavy on exposition for my taste, but to me those are small complaints compared to what have been before. Oh, and a TARDIS with filming angles!
When it comes to gender, yeah I really liked how it was used in the story. It felt like some very classic gender magic and tying it to the Doctors complex and expansive nature was indeed interesting, I hope they do more with that. I was not a fan of the comments "It is a shame you are not a woman any more" and "Something a male-presenting Time Lord will never understand." I felt they went too far towards him of all people and where quite unnecessary, especially after they had been so interesting and lovely when it comes to gender representation.
16:26 the glass also reminded me of the glass between 10 and Wilf in the booth when he knocked 4 times
I think if they just annoy the fan base a little bit more it will hit critical mass and become successful again.
The new Tardis is HUGE & gorgeous! & interesting that it’s super bright vs 13’s that was super dark. Both are hard to film though. I feel sorry for the cinematographers who have to try to light their faces despite all that backlighting! Still looks amazing though. More so in person I bet.
That's Disney money for you 😂
The only issue I had with this episode was Donna asking why this face came back. She had no idea that he regenerated since their time together.
I THINK she knew that because of the memories she received after she remembered everything. Could be wrong though.
@@jeremyadler9620 Why would she receive the Doctor’s memories? He didn’t regenerate when they were together.
@@richardvinsen2385, I was more thinking of when she regenerated, or at least, had some energy arrive out of her.
Agreed, that was weird… Maybe he told her as they were running down a corridor, and they cut the scene 😅
He probably briefly caught her up on the rest of what happened with the Master and Wilf, seeing as that's the last adventure she knew about and technically involved her to a degree (and obviously her grandfather), including his death and subsequent regeneration. As well as the other regenerations after, seeing as she also knew the he had been a woman as his last face.
It's always fun to see your takes on enjoyable new episodes from shows :) (I don't normally comment because I don't usually feel like I have anything to add).
I also loved the episode. Having Tennant and Tate back was amazing. It hit the right balance of the usual Doctor Who silly, while also knowing when to take a moment seriously.
Such unambiguously positive trans rep from one of the most popular shows from the UK feels like such an important (and bold) move that re-affirmed how happy I already was the RTD would be running the show again.
As a multi-gendered individual who presents a variety of ways, I can't say I cared for the line about the Doctor not being able to understand because he was a 'male-presenting Time Lord.' Seemed rather essentialist in a way that ran counter to the rest of how gender was being handled. But overall, I think I can let it slide given it was very clear everyone involved was doing their best to handle trans representation well.
I look forward to seeing how it goes from here.
"Outrage merchants" yeah, I'm sick of them. But it also happens on intellectual channels... they only have to say some nuanced detail could have been better and the bigots swarm the comments section like so many hateful flies.
This episode was an absolute joy as an enby doctor who fan!! I'm actually buzzing
Wheeeeee! I *loved* it! Actually got a little verklempt at the climactic “binary/non-binary” scene 🥰
It’s funny, just a couple days ago I ran across one of those ugly, bitter rants in the comments on another channel that was doing an “intro to Doctor Who” piece in prep for adding the show into its rotation-all about how that person refused to ever watch even a minute of the show with Jodie because of all the wokeness 🙄, but they were thrilled that it would be back on track in the upcoming incarnation. I like to think of that person kicking and screaming on the floor at this fabulous special. Not quite as fun as seeing Doctor Donna knocking it out of the park, but satisfying!
Lol indeed. It is a bit strange and potentially annoying to me that RTD used nonbinary in that fashion though because that's not what nonbinary is. Nonbinary is separate to male and female though can for many be placed on a spectrum between male and female, what it isn't is simply a combination of both. Plus Rose continues to use she/her pronouns after that point and so is not actually nonbinary? (Nonbinary people can use those pronouns but you'd expect them to add some form of nonbinary pronoun after explicitly saying she is nonbinary.)
Fucking DUNE does a better job of nonbinary explanation and it was written by a homophobe who created the allegory accidentally! Paul is able to access both male and female elements which in the Dune universe given its strict nature of certain male and female traits means that Paul has to be nonbinary within the context of the story, he is neither male nor female but can access both.
it's almost like Davies hasn't got a clue @@psoma_brufd
@@psoma_brufd There are plenty of non-binary people who use she/her or he/him.
@amylaneio try reading what I wrote, I explicitly stated that nonbinary people can use those pronouns. It's more here that nothing changes with Rose's character other than that, there is zero exploration of what it means for her despite explicitly stating that her view of herself has changed.
P.S. I use He/they pronouns myself.
@@psoma_brufd Agreed. As a enby, I found RTD's use of nonbinary very frustrating and incorrect. It was very "I don't think that word means what you think it means..."
Gosh I love how David Tennant and Catherine Tate just slipped back into their roles like they have never left the show. Especially Tate, switching from pre-runaway bride Donna to the DoctorDonna in an instant was just... *chef's kiss*
Tate and Tennant knocked it out of the park, every interaction was perfection ❤
The Doctor is non-binary and this has been canon since 2017. It's much too late for anyone to get upset about it.