I understand its a lot of work but it's always so rad when tier lists show clips of what they're talking about, like "oh yeah fleet edgeguarding with nair very nice" and then show us a clip of fleet edgeguarding with nair, it helps both entertainment and informative value Again, I think most channels that can afford to do this have a dedicated editor, so no pressure. Ima still watch every upload :D
I think it depends on the situation. If you parry the up special then it removes is invincibility after grabbing ledge allowing you to instant down strong
@ in the video I saw, they would crouch cancel > instant d strong. Obviously parry is better if you can get it, but if you are in a situation where you have to guess on timing at all then you should just cc (based on what I saw).
Yo I like this list a lot- especially with kragg ranno wrastor top 3 and maypul down low. I do think that even if clairen isn’t super free she’s still probably better than fleet overall, just super consistent with great mobility and insane defense. I also think wrastor is top one even in plat, a lot of his stuff isn’t that hard for someone in this range to pick up on and since he’s hard to confirm on, his weight isn’t that much of an issue if you don’t run into things and play keepaway. Plus killing is easy with edgeguarding (nair so good bro) and up b oos. He definitely plummets anywhere below plat tho.
Love this focus, almost everyone playing is below plat! Would love to know if any significant differences for silver and below, e.g. Orcane might be hard to recover with at that level idk.
In my opinion, maypul is probably one of the worst if not the worst character in the game. Her combos can be DIed and she has like three kill confirms, one needing a hard read, one requiring setup with plant, and one that can be DIed.
As a plat zetterburn, I can confirm he sucks. At release, he felt busted, but after people have learned how to adapt, it feels like you need to spend the whole game outplaying in neutral. That with having limited kill confirms makes him need to rely on hard reads often for kills.
I like having Maypul lower than most tier lists, but I have a hard time justifying her below Zetter. Maybe it’s just the way Zetter players tend to play, but I feel like that character is so much easier to edgeguard than Maypul. Sure it’s easier for Zetter to find kills, but I feel like Maypul is much better in neutral
I think Maypul is less than the S-tier that everyone places her at, and I think that ranking is just RoA1 bias plus the fact that she hypothetically has insane combo strings. That said, Maypul at D-tier is insane and that's absolutely your Ranno bias showing through. Maypul is defined by being a rushdown character, and yet almost all of Ranno's normal buttons are faster and with more reach which makes it really hard for her to do much to him in neutral. She's easily A/B tier; Ranno is just a bad matchup for her imo, and she actually has one of the better matchups against Kragg. Also I would genuinely place Orcane as top 3. He has fantastic recovery, fantastic normals, and fantastic stage control. Literally the only thing he sort of has trouble with is kills, and even that's better than Maypul or Forsburn or other characters who have much more serious trouble with kills.
Orcane feels like he has really polarizing matchups. Absolutely dunks on the big body characters and struggles a lot with disjoints. Just doesn’t feel like there is anything you can use to approach, since you lose to disjointed moves which coincidentally also clear your bubbles and beat out the projectile. I have to play so safe in neutral against clairens, and forsburn fstrong is matchup defining. If they don’t chase you blindly it’s hard to get hits. I’m p bad tho so grain of salt.
Noooo Forsburn :( I still can’t play this game but I plan to main Fors when I do and this is sad, but I’m just hoping this’ll be an ego boost when I actually learn to play him and do well with him.
Im always hovering at top of gold and bottom of plat. I play ranno. Clairen is my hardest matchup. I feel like shes just a wall i can never get in on. I probably just need to play more in the air and use more needles.
I think clairen is Ramos hardest matchup as well. I think you have to play the patient game and throw lots of needles. If a clairen hit your shield with anything other than jab or dtilt you can usually punish it
IDK why I have so much trouble with Zetter but I think that's my worst matchup with every character. Wrastor would be my other least favorite to encounter. Can barely stay in silver. People in bronze are moonwalking and 0-60% combos all the time. And yes, i'm trying my best to DI appropriately.
Most characters in the game also have raw tilts or Aerials that kill. Foresburn literally just has back air besides a at ledge jab still at high percents. He's just so easy to avoid getting killed by..
I am actually surprised wrastor is that high. I am not in plat... im not even ranked (I have some weird anxiety about ranked even though I know I'd most likely start in gold) but from my experience on unranked or with friends wrastor is good but not top of A tier good.
16:07 im trying to pick up Ranno right now do you have any tips on how to consistently back air in neutral without fucking up your movement it feels very awkward to me right now
There is a technique called "Reverse Aerial Rush" which allows you to consistently approach with back air. You can look up tons of tutorials on YT for how to do in Smash Ultimate but the inputs are the exact same for Rivals.
One thing that I find really good besides stuff like wavedash back is pivot shield to turn around safely in neutral. You can do a sliding pivot or a dash back pivot, both are good and neither are very hard. Then you can drop shield or bair out of it immediately. Also learn to moonwalk, it’s actually pretty useful in this game.
To do an instant bair, I slide my thumb from jump to attack. And I also add a RAR in sometimes too. Feel free to watch my movement guide for more info on that
@@Flindo911 only works at some percents and is dependent on stage positioning and matchup. Definitely is pretty good though for sure that is why she is a top character
She might be #1 in like silver or maybe even gold but in plat she has to work super hard to kill. Forward or back throw into f strong isn't super reliable since it depends on % and DI, and other than that she can really struggle to kill. She also doesn't have a ton a good out of shield options or quick get off me moves so she can get rushed down pretty bad by characters with better frame data. She's still super good, just not easy.
I would put maypul last honestly, yeah shes good in neutral but not being able to kill until 100%+ is ass in a game where everyone can kill you around 60-70%
Here's what I think about Forsburn as a lowly 1k player. I think as a character, Forsburn is probably rough but the people playing him are the ones who have the best movement and the best fundamentals. These players aren't being hard carried by their character (motions at Kragg and Clairen[Yes, Clairen is baby mode. Her frame data is overwhelming for mortals and 'knowing' her confirms is generally optional for all but the optimal strings]), so the players themselves are all monsters :P
I think kragg is good but not as broken as people always say. His disadvantage is still very bad, his out of shield game is not good. And you can gimp his recovery, its just different than other characters. He is rock solid, does probably to much damage out of uptilt, but I wouldnt say he is so much better than Ranno and Fleet, just easier to play which matters for tournaments, but yea
I dont get why people think his disadvantage is bad when he can spawn pillar any time he is above you which is an extra thing you have to think about every time
@ I means I have no data on Kragg in low divisions. Many seem to suggest he’s better in low divisions but I personally don’t know if I feel that way. I’m personally complete crap, and low gold/high silver is currently where my rank is fluctuating. I main Zetter and feel that matchup is probably disproportionately good for Zetter when compared to his matchup vs other top tiers. At the very least I grok it better, and so my win rate vs Kragg is well over 50%. Regardless, his performance at high level tournaments seems to suggest he is by far the best character in the game for the pros.
I understand its a lot of work but it's always so rad when tier lists show clips of what they're talking about, like "oh yeah fleet edgeguarding with nair very nice" and then show us a clip of fleet edgeguarding with nair, it helps both entertainment and informative value
Again, I think most channels that can afford to do this have a dedicated editor, so no pressure. Ima still watch every upload :D
Honestly man you could've told me this was a regular tier list and I still would've agreed.
wit maypul down there
Just a tip I saw about Lox, don’t worry about parry timing, just crouch cancel his up special, no timing required
I think it depends on the situation. If you parry the up special then it removes is invincibility after grabbing ledge allowing you to instant down strong
@ in the video I saw, they would crouch cancel > instant d strong. Obviously parry is better if you can get it, but if you are in a situation where you have to guess on timing at all then you should just cc (based on what I saw).
@ interesting! I’ll have to try this out!
Yo I like this list a lot- especially with kragg ranno wrastor top 3 and maypul down low.
I do think that even if clairen isn’t super free she’s still probably better than fleet overall, just super consistent with great mobility and insane defense.
I also think wrastor is top one even in plat, a lot of his stuff isn’t that hard for someone in this range to pick up on and since he’s hard to confirm on, his weight isn’t that much of an issue if you don’t run into things and play keepaway. Plus killing is easy with edgeguarding (nair so good bro) and up b oos. He definitely plummets anywhere below plat tho.
Love this focus, almost everyone playing is below plat! Would love to know if any significant differences for silver and below, e.g. Orcane might be hard to recover with at that level idk.
Dropping a like on this video because as a Platnium Maypul I like to feel all my complaints echo'd back to me LMAO
In my opinion, maypul is probably one of the worst if not the worst character in the game. Her combos can be DIed and she has like three kill confirms, one needing a hard read, one requiring setup with plant, and one that can be DIed.
As a plat zetterburn, I can confirm he sucks. At release, he felt busted, but after people have learned how to adapt, it feels like you need to spend the whole game outplaying in neutral. That with having limited kill confirms makes him need to rely on hard reads often for kills.
Oh my god adorable kitty!
Love the video 🐐
I like having Maypul lower than most tier lists, but I have a hard time justifying her below Zetter. Maybe it’s just the way Zetter players tend to play, but I feel like that character is so much easier to edgeguard than Maypul. Sure it’s easier for Zetter to find kills, but I feel like Maypul is much better in neutral
I think Maypul is less than the S-tier that everyone places her at, and I think that ranking is just RoA1 bias plus the fact that she hypothetically has insane combo strings. That said, Maypul at D-tier is insane and that's absolutely your Ranno bias showing through. Maypul is defined by being a rushdown character, and yet almost all of Ranno's normal buttons are faster and with more reach which makes it really hard for her to do much to him in neutral. She's easily A/B tier; Ranno is just a bad matchup for her imo, and she actually has one of the better matchups against Kragg.
Also I would genuinely place Orcane as top 3. He has fantastic recovery, fantastic normals, and fantastic stage control. Literally the only thing he sort of has trouble with is kills, and even that's better than Maypul or Forsburn or other characters who have much more serious trouble with kills.
Orcane has big trouble with disadvantage and escaping. And also massive issues dealing with disjointed hitboxes such as swordies.
Orcane feels like he has really polarizing matchups. Absolutely dunks on the big body characters and struggles a lot with disjoints.
Just doesn’t feel like there is anything you can use to approach, since you lose to disjointed moves which coincidentally also clear your bubbles and beat out the projectile. I have to play so safe in neutral against clairens, and forsburn fstrong is matchup defining. If they don’t chase you blindly it’s hard to get hits. I’m p bad tho so grain of salt.
Noooo Forsburn :(
I still can’t play this game but I plan to main Fors when I do and this is sad, but I’m just hoping this’ll be an ego boost when I actually learn to play him and do well with him.
Honestly he’s still cracked. This game is insanely well balanced and any character can do well
@ I’ve heard as much, hoping it holds up for me🤞
Yeah but as a forsburn main it's just way easier for other characters to be cracked than it is for forsburn
Im always hovering at top of gold and bottom of plat. I play ranno. Clairen is my hardest matchup. I feel like shes just a wall i can never get in on. I probably just need to play more in the air and use more needles.
I think clairen is Ramos hardest matchup as well. I think you have to play the patient game and throw lots of needles. If a clairen hit your shield with anything other than jab or dtilt you can usually punish it
IDK why I have so much trouble with Zetter but I think that's my worst matchup with every character. Wrastor would be my other least favorite to encounter.
Can barely stay in silver. People in bronze are moonwalking and 0-60% combos all the time. And yes, i'm trying my best to DI appropriately.
Low key i think all lists for this game only need 3 tiers
Most characters in the game also have raw tilts or Aerials that kill. Foresburn literally just has back air besides a at ledge jab still at high percents. He's just so easy to avoid getting killed by..
Maypul doesn't struggle to kill. Mayp can kill Lox with a random smash attack at 93% on stage.
@@dahuterschuter mostly what I meant was that maypul struggles to find kills easily. Landing a random smash attack can be pretty difficult sometimes
I am actually surprised wrastor is that high. I am not in plat... im not even ranked (I have some weird anxiety about ranked even though I know I'd most likely start in gold) but from my experience on unranked or with friends wrastor is good but not top of A tier good.
16:07 im trying to pick up Ranno right now do you have any tips on how to consistently back air in neutral without fucking up your movement it feels very awkward to me right now
There is a technique called "Reverse Aerial Rush" which allows you to consistently approach with back air. You can look up tons of tutorials on YT for how to do in Smash Ultimate but the inputs are the exact same for Rivals.
One thing that I find really good besides stuff like wavedash back is pivot shield to turn around safely in neutral. You can do a sliding pivot or a dash back pivot, both are good and neither are very hard. Then you can drop shield or bair out of it immediately.
Also learn to moonwalk, it’s actually pretty useful in this game.
To do an instant bair, I slide my thumb from jump to attack. And I also add a RAR in sometimes too. Feel free to watch my movement guide for more info on that
I legit dont know how you can have a plat and below tier list and not put clairen #1
I really value easy kill confirms and sometimes i think clairen can struggle to find kills. It is so easy to find kills with ranno and kragg
@ forward throw, back throw smash attack
@@Flindo911 only works at some percents and is dependent on stage positioning and matchup. Definitely is pretty good though for sure that is why she is a top character
She might be #1 in like silver or maybe even gold but in plat she has to work super hard to kill. Forward or back throw into f strong isn't super reliable since it depends on % and DI, and other than that she can really struggle to kill. She also doesn't have a ton a good out of shield options or quick get off me moves so she can get rushed down pretty bad by characters with better frame data. She's still super good, just not easy.
I would put maypul last honestly, yeah shes good in neutral but not being able to kill until 100%+ is ass in a game where everyone can kill you around 60-70%
Here's what I think about Forsburn as a lowly 1k player.
I think as a character, Forsburn is probably rough but the people playing him are the ones who have the best movement and the best fundamentals. These players aren't being hard carried by their character (motions at Kragg and Clairen[Yes, Clairen is baby mode. Her frame data is overwhelming for mortals and 'knowing' her confirms is generally optional for all but the optimal strings]), so the players themselves are all monsters :P
lol you're so coping
I think kragg is good but not as broken as people always say. His disadvantage is still very bad, his out of shield game is not good. And you can gimp his recovery, its just different than other characters. He is rock solid, does probably to much damage out of uptilt, but I wouldnt say he is so much better than Ranno and Fleet, just easier to play which matters for tournaments, but yea
This is for plat and below though right? So kragg should be ranked a little higher than you might rank him overall
I dont get why people think his disadvantage is bad when he can spawn pillar any time he is above you which is an extra thing you have to think about every time
@@trombonegamer14except Kragg is by far the best performing character in high level tournament play… Hard to say he’s some kind of pub stomper.
@ethangilworth7891 I don't see how Kragg performing well at a top level prevents him from being even better against lower level players.
@ I means I have no data on Kragg in low divisions. Many seem to suggest he’s better in low divisions but I personally don’t know if I feel that way.
I’m personally complete crap, and low gold/high silver is currently where my rank is fluctuating. I main Zetter and feel that matchup is probably disproportionately good for Zetter when compared to his matchup vs other top tiers. At the very least I grok it better, and so my win rate vs Kragg is well over 50%.
Regardless, his performance at high level tournaments seems to suggest he is by far the best character in the game for the pros.
Kragg is definitely a top character but I think there are other contenders. I don’t think he’s untouchable.
whack