Brilliant. I got a clon guitar pedal kit with what claimed to be GE 1N34A diodes. They distorted but sounded like shat. Sure enough, this test proved they are fakes. Real 1N34A purchased from a reputable parts vendor showed 1.6uA, just as you state, and the pedal now sounds awesome. thanks again.
Wow and thanks! My interest in electronics started in the 60's building a crystal radio with a germanium diode. I never knew this detail. One thing I found out the hard way - The *forward* voltage drop of Schottky diodes increase quite a bit as the *forward* current increases. Sometimes greater than Silicon diodes.
Nope... A BAT85 (DO-35 package as in the video, generic switching Schottky diode) has a leak current of 2µA at 25 Volt. A 1N4148, generic silicon switching diode even lower at .025µA at 20V. ( RTFM 😂 ). Of course leaking goes up proportional to the size of the device.
@@TheBoomtown4 No. He was measuring current. The meter indicated 0.002 mA so he said "two thousandths of a milliamp". I pointed out that it's more conventional to call it out by it's singular (more than 1) units, in this case two microamps (2μA). Capacitance was never discussed and not relevant in the demonstration. I can only guess that you're not familiar with the Greek letter mu (μ), a prefix for micro, being used with values other than capacitance (μF). It is used with other values such as voltage (μV), current (μA) and others as well.
@@treasuretotrash2067 What is the difference between micro amps and milliamps? a MilliAmpere(s) mA is 1/1000 of an Ampere a Micro Ampere uA is 1/1000000 of an Ampere.
Only matters one way or the other depending on the job you want them to do, anyway. Some guys that build crystal radios have clips for the detector so they can select the best diode from their stash, in any case. Don't trash vintage electronics then without scanning the circuit boards or handwired circuits for glass diodes you can salvage.
I think they are almost all 1N5711s really. There may be some attempts at making real ones that didn't work. I did a comparison in a video on my channel. ruclips.net/video/5y7I7G_a3Qo/видео.html If you find a better option, you may want to tell others who are doing xtal radio stuff.
A generally okay method but going through my drawer of Schottky diodes, I found some with leakage currents as high as 5uA as well. My genuine 1N34A have leakage currents from .7uA to 5uA
I just started building and already investing in my sources and testing all my parts, I also read the average shelf life is only 2 years on things like electrolytic caps, maybe you could do a video on the effects of older parts also? I dont understand how the circuit can last decades in product but is rated this way.
There are several modes of electrolytic capacitor failure. There's the failure of the dielectric and the failure of the electrolyte. Each is caused by different things. How a part is used will determine its longevity.
I would consider any electrolytic capacitor that had a shelf life of only two years to be of defective manufacture. I have some electrolytic capacitors, made by reputable vendors, that have been in storage for 60 years and they are still good. Having said that, it is always a good idea to increase the voltage slowly at the first use of any electrolytic capacitor that has been in storage for a long time. The slow increase gives the insulating layer time to re-form. An initial rapid onset of voltage can produce a destructive current through the layer that is intended to be insulating. For more detail, see, for instance, the video, "Reforming Capacitors - Everything you wanted to know".
@@AustinMics ok, so it's an older technology correct? I presume people are looking for this to add color to their audio instruments/equipments such as amplifier.
fakes are modern and have MUCH less spread in tolerances. Point contact germaniums were all over the place and often have 20% variance, even in the same batch
I tried testing using the battery test and 200 ma test ADC and i get 00.0 guess i have a fake germanium diode… but it is reading at 279 when switch to diode test
It's my experience that NOS Germaniums are unpredictable and unrepeatable relative to modern Schottky diodes. In a drive pedal, I've come to rely on the repeatability of $0.10 Schottkys over a real batch of NOS 1N34A's that vary widely, and cost $0.75 each. My opinion. Your mileage may vary.
If you want repeatibility, the modern schottkeys are better. Germaniums will have much softer clipping and will therefore sound different (less high freq harmonics)
Schottky diodes can be made to work ruclips.net/video/5y7I7G_a3Qo/видео.html The leakage current of the 1N34 can be effectively replaced by a 2K resistor It works better than the not very good 1N34 I have but not as well as the really good one. 1N34 diodes vary in parameters
@@shahid3520 If the fake one is something like the 1N5711 then it seemed to me that the selectivity was about the same. What makes you think it comes out better? Remember that I am adding a 2K loading resistor to make up for the lack of leakage. If you have a good explanation, I would like to know it. More selectivity is a good thing if we can get it.
@@kensmith5694 5 years ago I made a magnetic loop crystal radio antenna and tried all kind of diodes, germanium diodes gave better sound quality but the selectivity was poor, I posted a comment on a video ' How to discern Germanium-Diodes from Schottky-Diodes' by KainkLabs, here is the comment : @shahid3520 5 years ago I used a fake Germanium diode sold as 1N34 which in reality is a Schottky diode, it gave excellent selectivity much better than true germanium diodes OA90, OA81 and a diode with two black rings. I tested them on a magnetic loop which is based on your design but made it 12% larger. Also tested 18 SWG and 175X46AWG litz wire, satisfied with both but the later much more expensive. There is a powerful local signal which was strongly interfering with two close weak AM radio signals. With germanium diodes I was unable to stop the interference but with the fake schottky diode the problem has been solved, stations tune very sharply. There is some loss of sound quality but still satisfactory.
@@kensmith5694 Please find and watch the video by KainkaLabs You can read my comment there and also this explanation by KainkaLabs ' How to discern Germanium-Diodes from Schottky-Diodes' @KainkaLabs 6 years ago Germanium diodes have a dynamic resistance of only a few kOhms. Thereby they load the tank-circuit much too much so that the voltage breaks down. The remedy in the old days was that the voltage and (high) impedance of the tank-circuit was transformed down to match the dynamic impedance of the crystal-/germanium.diode and of the typically 2x2kOhm headphones behind them. Disadvantage: When transforming down the reception voltage you loose weak stations because every semiconductor-material needs at least a voltage of around 25mV to rectify at room-temperaure! (This is governed by the laws of physics and can´t be changed except by cooling down the diode down to sub-zero temperatures.) Schottky-diodes have a much higher dynamic impedance and are matched much better to the high impedance of a tank-circuit (in resonance). Thereby you don´t need to transform down the tank-circuit and have much a better result in receiving low-level stations. So Schottky-diodes make a much better use of the reception-voltage of the tank-circuit. I will explain this in great detail in a future video series which will be named "Mythbusting Crystal-Radios" or something like that. 99% of the information you find on the internet concerning crystal-radios is totally wrong. And the first myth is that germanium diodes are better than Schottky or Silicon diodes because they have a lower "turn-on" or "knee" voltage...
![GEEK TIMË [OFFICIAL AUDIO]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/ry-6RvkH880/mqdefault.jpg)
Brilliant. I got a clon guitar pedal kit with what claimed to be GE 1N34A diodes. They distorted but sounded like shat. Sure enough, this test proved they are fakes. Real 1N34A purchased from a reputable parts vendor showed 1.6uA, just as you state, and the pedal now sounds awesome. thanks again.
E chord is everthing 😎
I could tell that the small one was not a point contact Germanium by sight. Looks like a silicon switching diode.
Wow and thanks! My interest in electronics started in the 60's building a crystal radio with a germanium diode. I never knew this detail. One thing I found out the hard way - The *forward* voltage drop of Schottky diodes increase quite a bit as the *forward* current increases. Sometimes greater than Silicon diodes.
Brilliant and straight to the point. I love it.
Can always series them with a current limiting resistor and read the voltage drop across the diode.
schottky diodes usually have a higher leakage current, sometimes in the mA even, I think what you have there is a general purpose silicon diode
Nope... A BAT85 (DO-35 package as in the video, generic switching Schottky diode) has a leak current of 2µA at 25 Volt. A 1N4148, generic silicon switching diode even lower at .025µA at 20V. ( RTFM 😂 ). Of course leaking goes up proportional to the size of the device.
I'm shocked and my key take away from this is I ode you my current gratitude.
It's okay to say 2μA.
Isn’t that capacitance? Microfarads?
@@TheBoomtown4 No. He was measuring current. The meter indicated 0.002 mA so he said "two thousandths of a milliamp". I pointed out that it's more conventional to call it out by it's singular (more than 1) units, in this case two microamps (2μA). Capacitance was never discussed and not relevant in the demonstration. I can only guess that you're not familiar with the Greek letter mu (μ), a prefix for micro, being used with values other than capacitance (μF). It is used with other values such as voltage (μV), current (μA) and others as well.
@@KJ6EAD oh yeah, so used to looking for microfarads that I just look for the micro symbol on multimeter. Carry on
2mA*
@@treasuretotrash2067 What is the difference between micro amps and milliamps?
a MilliAmpere(s) mA is 1/1000 of an Ampere a Micro Ampere uA is 1/1000000 of an Ampere.
Only matters one way or the other depending on the job you want them to do, anyway. Some guys that build crystal radios have clips for the detector so they can select the best diode from their stash, in any case. Don't trash vintage electronics then without scanning the circuit boards or handwired circuits for glass diodes you can salvage.
Are they valuable? I have lots of OA81 etc salvaged decades ago
As an old time ham. I can look at them and tell you the big one is Germanium and the little one is a Silicon high speed diode, not a Schottky.
Not everyone has the life-long experience you do, so I made this video.
A BAT85 (Schottky) has the same package. 2µA leak at 25V.
@@AustinMicsI don't think you must have a lifelong experience to spot a germanium diode visually
Based on all the low ratings on Amazon it looks like all of the 1N34 diodes on Amazon are crap.
I think they are almost all 1N5711s really. There may be some attempts at making real ones that didn't work.
I did a comparison in a video on my channel.
ruclips.net/video/5y7I7G_a3Qo/видео.html
If you find a better option, you may want to tell others who are doing xtal radio stuff.
They also offer fake Schottky diodes that are standard silicon diodes. I had a batch of fake BAT85s
A generally okay method but going through my drawer of Schottky diodes, I found some with leakage currents as high as 5uA as well. My genuine 1N34A have leakage currents from .7uA to 5uA
So is the manufacturer claiming that it's a 1N34?
Yes
Not sure if this is conclusive test - schottky diodes can be quite leaky.
IV trace would be a more definitive, if that would even matter tho.
I just started building and already investing in my sources and testing all my parts, I also read the average shelf life is only 2 years on things like electrolytic caps, maybe you could do a video on the effects of older parts also? I dont understand how the circuit can last decades in product but is rated this way.
There are several modes of electrolytic capacitor failure. There's the failure of the dielectric and the failure of the electrolyte. Each is caused by different things. How a part is used will determine its longevity.
I would consider any electrolytic capacitor that had a shelf life of only two years to be of defective manufacture. I have some electrolytic capacitors, made by reputable vendors, that have been in storage for 60 years and they are still good. Having said that, it is always a good idea to increase the voltage slowly at the first use of any electrolytic capacitor that has been in storage for a long time. The slow increase gives the insulating layer time to re-form. An initial rapid onset of voltage can produce a destructive current through the layer that is intended to be insulating. For more detail, see, for instance, the video, "Reforming Capacitors - Everything you wanted to know".
The forward voltage drop of a germanium is around 0.2 volts rather than the 0.6 volts of a regular silicon diode. Not sure about schottky
Schottkys are also around 0.2V - that's the point.
How can the fake have tighter specification?
Ge diodes are well-known for leakage current. Silicon is the better diode for most applications.
@@AustinMics ok, so it's an older technology correct? I presume people are looking for this to add color to their audio instruments/equipments such as amplifier.
fakes are modern and have MUCH less spread in tolerances. Point contact germaniums were all over the place and often have 20% variance, even in the same batch
So how do i set my meter?? For current to do the same test…just a beginner .. sorry..
Craftsman 82141 meter
Page 12:
c.searspartsdirect.com/mmh/lis_pdf/OWNM/L0908450.pdf
@@AustinMics thank you so much!! Your awesome sir👍👍
I tried testing using the battery test and 200 ma test ADC and i get 00.0 guess i have a fake germanium diode… but it is reading at 279 when switch to diode test
So the stripe side is the positive or the negative side?? Some diode may have stripe on both side?
Current flows in the direction of the stripe. Stripes on each end? You'll need to measure with your meter to determine polarity.
Nice
which is better ?
It's my experience that NOS Germaniums are unpredictable and unrepeatable relative to modern Schottky diodes. In a drive pedal, I've come to rely on the repeatability of $0.10 Schottkys over a real batch of NOS 1N34A's that vary widely, and cost $0.75 each. My opinion. Your mileage may vary.
@@AustinMics i see. thanks.
If you want repeatibility, the modern schottkeys are better. Germaniums will have much softer clipping and will therefore sound different (less high freq harmonics)
I seen this on Amazon.
👍👍
Point contact Germanium diodes are probably the best for RF use ( crystal radios ? ) ....... DAVE™ 🛑
Germanium has a fine wire in S shape.
Not all germanium diodes are point-contact types; some are "gold-bonded" and have no fine wire.
I think - DC biased silicon diodes, led's like a "gernanium diodes" :D
So, I guess the fake is better than Real!!!!
Both have their uses.
Depends on their usage, I have a booster circuit uses both.
Why would you buy anything from China? Just stick with Digi-Key or Mouser.
Because germanium diodes are outdated and arent sold from professional distributors, but they are still used in some audio applications
Schottky diodes can be made to work
ruclips.net/video/5y7I7G_a3Qo/видео.html
The leakage current of the 1N34 can be effectively replaced by a 2K resistor
It works better than the not very good 1N34 I have but not as well as the really good one.
1N34 diodes vary in parameters
Actually the fake 1N34A schottky diodes work better in crystal radios, they give much better selectivity.
@@shahid3520 If the fake one is something like the 1N5711 then it seemed to me that the selectivity was about the same. What makes you think it comes out better? Remember that I am adding a 2K loading resistor to make up for the lack of leakage. If you have a good explanation, I would like to know it. More selectivity is a good thing if we can get it.
@@kensmith5694 5 years ago I made a magnetic loop crystal radio antenna and tried all kind of diodes, germanium diodes gave better sound quality but the selectivity was poor, I posted a comment on a video ' How to discern Germanium-Diodes from Schottky-Diodes' by KainkLabs, here is the comment :
@shahid3520
5 years ago
I used a fake Germanium diode sold as 1N34 which in reality is a Schottky diode, it gave excellent selectivity much better than true germanium diodes OA90, OA81 and a diode with two black rings. I tested them on a magnetic loop which is based on your design but made it 12% larger. Also tested 18 SWG and 175X46AWG litz wire, satisfied with both but the later much more expensive. There is a powerful local signal which was strongly interfering with two close weak AM radio signals. With germanium diodes I was unable to stop the interference but with the fake schottky diode the problem has been solved, stations tune very sharply. There is some loss of sound quality but still satisfactory.
@@kensmith5694 For a good selective crystal radio we would need a high Q LC tank and a diode that does not over loads the tank circuit.
@@kensmith5694 Please find and watch the video by KainkaLabs
You can read my comment there and also this explanation by KainkaLabs ' How to discern Germanium-Diodes from Schottky-Diodes'
@KainkaLabs
6 years ago
Germanium diodes have a dynamic resistance of only a few kOhms. Thereby they load the tank-circuit much too much so that the voltage breaks down.
The remedy in the old days was that the voltage and (high) impedance of the tank-circuit was transformed down to match the dynamic impedance of the crystal-/germanium.diode and of the typically 2x2kOhm headphones behind them.
Disadvantage: When transforming down the reception voltage you loose weak stations because every semiconductor-material needs at least a voltage of around 25mV to rectify at room-temperaure!
(This is governed by the laws of physics and can´t be changed except by cooling down the diode down to sub-zero temperatures.)
Schottky-diodes have a much higher dynamic impedance and are matched much better to the high impedance of a tank-circuit (in resonance).
Thereby you don´t need to transform down the tank-circuit and have much a better result in receiving low-level stations.
So Schottky-diodes make a much better use of the reception-voltage of the tank-circuit.
I will explain this in great detail in a future video series which will be named "Mythbusting Crystal-Radios" or something like that.
99% of the information you find on the internet concerning crystal-radios is totally wrong.
And the first myth is that germanium diodes are better than Schottky or Silicon diodes because they have a lower "turn-on" or "knee" voltage...
CAT WHISKER ON GALENA IS A MUCH BETTER OPTION
Not for a guitar pedal.
You can never trust those kooky chinese