This guy was given so much more time and respect than Corbyn. He's not wrong about everything, but he is wrong about quite a lot, and I think you would've done well to challenge him a little more.
@@mystic_mimi21I know what you mean, but I think that if you allow certain things to be said without any pushback or verification, you, to some degree, legitimise whatever is being said
@@somebloke2238 Well that can't be true, you can also have a person being interviewed on the merits of what they are saying as their own opinion, perspective, and valued as such rather than being pushed towards by what is "right" and what is "wrong" as you so deftly and intricately put it... And my question to you - Why should he be challenged immediately before being listened to? Why not be listened to and asked to clarify his statements, as he has been in this interview? To have it your way would lead to a complete death of freedom of speech by asphyxiation.
While I'd also like more pushback, I can see value in allowing these ghouls to express their opinion in full, so we can see exactly what they're all about. The downside is that it gives them carte blanche to spout propaganda that they know is false and don't believe, but are aware of it being useful to muddy the waters to forward their agenda. It's a double edges sword.
He forgot to mention that many of the people on the march are Jews. Many Jews oppose the Israeli response. Conflating criticism of Israeli war crimes with support for Hamas' terrorism is utter nonsense. Both are obviously wrong. People condemned Hamas' attack when it happened and now they are condemning Israel's over response because that is what is happening now. Im not sure this guy accurately represents the Jewish community otherwise he would be discuss all the differing opinions within in it, including those of anti-Zionist Jews. He nearly mentions them but then interrupts himself : 19:49 . Pointing out that Hamas' killed 1000 innocent civilians does not justify Israel killing another 9000 in response. Pointing that out isnt Jihadism or anti-Semitism. Its just human compassion. Many Jews condemn both of those attrocities. Why doesnt this guy? He just glosses over it. It isnt hard. Just say that killing innocent citizens is wrong. Its wrong when Hamas kills 1000 and its wrong when Israel responds by killing another 9000. Nothing to do with Jihadism or anti Semitism.
@@anti-genocide I don't think that is relevant. Hamas' attack was horrendous, sickening and inexcusable. However, the Israeli media response was not only to express their justified outrage, they also spread misinformation. It seems there were no decapitated babies. So why did the Israeli government spread that lie? To distract from their disproportionate response that they knew was actually going to really result in thousands of dead children. This guy's argument of 'Other countries get away with being evil so why can't Israel? Anyone who criticises them is a hypocrite' is laughably bad. I like many, I criticise all governments for their crimes - including my own. Pure propaganda. Condescending twerp.
@@ads13924How so? Because its people calling out in support of Palestinian civilians or for peace in general who are frequently told that they're just terrorist supporters.
@@django3422 Because it's not actual peace that is asked for. What happens to the Hostages? Do hamas get to keep them? You will probably say no... but then how do you get them back?
Just popping in to say that the population of gaza is not Hamas. There is a bit of a difference, also that nothing will ever happen towards a peaceful solution unless all settlements in the west bank are unilaterally pulled back from.
The quote in the thumbnail of this video is absurd. The same impulse that leads many to empathise with the human suffering of civilians in Gaza or the oppression in the West Bank is the same impulse that informs the horror we feel at the industrial scale destruction of Jewish life by the Nazis. Just because the suffering and oppression of Palestinians is being enacted by the state of Israel, should we then just allow it? Could we turn off our empathy for other humans even if we wanted to? It's so obviously not an anti-Semitic impulse. Just a human one.
Its a shame the empathy doesn't seem to extend to UK citizens who are hostages. No protests for them, no calls for Hamas to give them back even though its been made explicitly clear this all ends when the hostages are released. I guess its *safer* to criticize Israel. I wonder how much you would demand Israel stop if you were the one being abused in the "care" of Hamas. Its a mystery.
I dont know about you, but the horror I feel at the German genocide of the Jews, has less to do with 'a lot of people died' and quite a lot more to do with WHY those people died. I do not feel the same emotion when I think about the loss of life in combat or indirectly due to combat in ww2, or under the stalinist famines and purges, or even the civilian deaths in Iraq and Afghanistan. The palestinian civilians dying in gaza are not dying in a systematic plan to kill all Palestinians via genocide, but as collateral damage in the goal of destroying Hamas. If you cant see a moral and ethical distinction in that, I dont know what to say. Israel has the capability to at any time enact a genocide and expulsion of all Palestinians from gaza and the west Bank, but not the intent; hamas/PIJ/Hezbollah/Iran have the intent, but not the means.
@@LeoRikimaru I appreciate the place you're coming from but that also lacks context. While Hamas militants still controlled some kibbutzes in Southern Israel after the horrific attack on October 7th, the IDF course of action was to immediately bomb Gaza. It wasn't to shore up and take back control of their lands in the first place. Israeli government position at the start was they didn't want to negotiate. The first two hostages released were American citizens that were negotiated out by Qatar. The next two were released by Hamas with the aid of international aid groups present. Netanyahu held a televised meeting with a supposed family member of one of the hostages to have them say their support for the bombing campaign, that person was later revealed to not be a family member of any of the tragic hostages. In Israel itself, many family members of the hostages have been calling for an end to the attacks on Gaza. I cannot and will not justify any of the atrocities committed by Hamas on October 7th but the reason the protests are calling for a ceasefire is because the UK sends support to Israel in their efforts of ethnic cleansing. Do you think the UK would be able to have any remote influence on Hamas in the same way it very slightly could towards Israel? I'm not saying that under any delusions of the UK being a strong power in the world anymore, but our government is aiding and abetting the war crimes Israel are committing at this moment in time. Again, I feel for Israeli citizens and the larger Jewish community, a considerable amount of the latter also support the emancipation for Palestine. I can't comment on their grief and how best they should react to any of the marches for a cease-fire. It's not my place to judge their pain. I do wish that Hamas would release the hostages, but I also want Israel to work towards that diplomatically. There are so many more points I could talk about with regards to how dastardly the Israeli government is, and how they deliberately conflate Zionism to Judaism so any criticisms of their actions are immediately tarred as being anti-Semitic. I won't bombard it all in one comment but I'm open to having a discussion if you are on a platform of your choice. I hope if you have read this reply all the way through that I do not hold any negativity towards you, I just think you're missing important context as to why that whataboutism is not helpful here.
@@LeoRikimaru So if the comment suggests empathy for ALL Human beings that are being harmed or suffering, why would you give it this narrowminded enterpretation? Is it because that is how you categorise people? Clearly someone living in the UK protests against the failings of the UK government. You don't need to chastice the UK government for not caring about dead or kidnapped Israelis when they clearly already do.
Yup, unlike in Iraq, we have pretty much real time video of what’s happening. We know what settlers, the IDF, Israelis and Israeli leaders believe. We know their motivations.
@@LCOF It's also made many of of us go much deeper into history than ever before. I would add, though, that many Israelis don't fall in line with the rest. Peace is the only possible route to security.
I wonder what footage he have seen to make his judgement on the marches. I haven't seen the majority of people chanting what he said. Instead they were chanting ceasefire. I did see a very small group (rightfully arrested many by MET) chanting Hamas rhetoric but 95% was marching for ceasefire. The ignorance on his part is mind blowing. The march organisers made it very clear that 7th of Oct was a massacre by Hamas. Him telling they had made no signs of condemning just falls into the abyss. Begs the question if he is independent at all in judging this conflict.
Drinking game time. Take a sip of beer every time he:- Says something racist, or that could be construed as racist. Says something slanderous/libellous. Makes an assertion with zero evidence to back it up. Talks friendship with people, who a hundred years ago would have viewed him in a very different light.
That included us in England who regulary burnt jewish people alive & other varied and inventive punishments from about 1190 through to roughly 1275 when Edward I expelled anyone of the jewish faith from England. There's a fair bit of history here that shapes modern jewish thinking, & that's a fair few centuries before we broach the subject of pogroms during the 20th century.
@@samt7351I'm going to go ahead and take a guess that he was referring to the repeated justifications of genocide, the false equivalence of Hamas and Palestinians, and the double standards repeatedly made between the value of an Israeli life versus that of a Palestinian life.
Yes and this is not about religion, its about USA power and its access and control of oil and gas, Isreal is an outpost of the USA serving this purpose. The genocide of East Timorese eg was by Indoensia a Muslim country backed by the USA. Its not religion. The nuts in Isreal think it is and are attempting to manipulate this context to their advantage. Behind it all is the uSA as aggressor, read Naom Comsky for well sourced facts to back all this up.
Really because the Soviet Union and Russia are very much fascist states considered on the far left. (Yes and the USSR was very much ethnonationalist by deporting minorities to Siberia and resettling areas with ‘white’ Russians and promoting Russian culture).
It doesn't matter which direction you travel on the political scale, go too far and you will end up a fascist, fascism is not exclusive to the far right. The key elements are censorship, threats of violence and acts of violence and both sides engage in cancel culture, threats and violence
His summary of the far left supporting jihad is a crass misrepresentation of why I think people on the left feel empathy for the oppressed. For example, many on the left feel sympathy with trump supporters, just like they feel sympathy for average palestinians. Doesnt mean they support Trump or support Hamas. You can feel sympathy for the oppression that feeds a mindset, without supporting their conclusion.
Islam is the most clever religion, islam will use liberal left when they are minority when they get majority they will wipeout left to implement shariah law
I actually cannot believe how hard this guy crumbled and just allowed genocidal anti semetic and racist comments from this IDF soldier. Yuck it’s so “wolley” ?!! You’re supposed to be a journalist not a host. Keep the chin stroking up though good job on looking serious.
Not to you, but the other replies... Stop sealioning. If you can't work it out then an explanation is just an invitation to have our intelligences insulted further. Killing x10 people that were killed initially is bad. "pUhLeAsE eXPlAiN".
@@Dan-lg4bs Palestine had a strong secular movement in the form of the PLO and had united the people with a lot of support. What followed was the skewed Oslo Accords, the assassination of Yitzhak Rabin at the hands of an Israeli Nationalist, and the deliberate delay by Benjamin 'Bibi' Netanyahu to let the Oslo Accords time out. That was despite the overwhelming skew towards Israel that the Accords provided. I know this is a huge ask, but I would like to know how you feel about Nelson Mandela. In particular with regards to how the fight for emancipation for black people under that apartheid regime in South Africa.
I find it refreshing. It's good to hear someone giving their side in full, instead of the interviewer wasting half the time indulging their egos by interrupting and point-scoring.
@@ftumschkchallenging obvious bullshit is not point scoring. It’s journalistic integrity. You can let someone speak at length and at the same time challenge.
@@Bucketheadhead ... what, and take up half the runtime with the _presenter's_ views? Besides, since much of it IS obvious bullshit, I don't see there was much point in Oli pointing it out... unless to gratify our OWN egos that we, too, were clever enough to spot the crap when it appeared. That's what echo chambers are for, after all, but thankfully this interview was the antithesis of an echo chamber, and it's a legitimate approach to journalism. Rather than constantly challenge, I think it can be useful if the guest is allowed to give their side in full, if only on the basis of the saying that "if give a man enough rope and he'll hang himself".
@@ftumschk It is entirely possible to challenge someone’s position concisely and let the other person speak at length. This is so ridiculously obvious I can’t believe I need to point it out.
@@ftumschkYou're immediately conflating calling out lies with the presenter simply giving their opinion. That is not the point at all. It's about highlighting when false information is used to try and make a point. That's it. Because content like this IS how many people learn about what is happening. That's why news media exists. What you're arguing for is how we end up with the invasion of Iraq.
@hansgruber9093 his argument was: "Right wingers did the war in Iraq, so now lefties can't protest against the Israeli genocide". As you can see, it is an utterly incoherent position to take.
He's claiming there was no protest when the RAF bombed ISIS in Iraq in 2017/2018, which I believe is largely true, certainly no protesting on the scale we're seeing now.
@@jacobweddell2438 First he referensed the invasion of Iraq after 9/11, in 2003. It was preceded by a massive worldwide protest on 15 february 2003. @30.20
One of the things I hate about the two state solution is that Israel gets to pretend they are fighting against another state. They have all the power, this is closer to an insurgency in a purposely underfunded underdeveloped region rather than state vs state warfare. In a single state, ethnic violence on this scale would be seen as a complete failure of the state rather than "a complicated issue between 2 states".
A state being more powerful than another is not indicative of whether the other is a state or not. The State of Palestine is a legal entity on the international stage, irregardless of whether it has formally declared independence or not.
What I dislike about the two state solution is that whilst Israel would comply with this arrangement, the Hamas terrorists would not. They have a sworn goal of the destruction of Israel and the utter destruction of all Jews worldwide. Why then would anybody who takes an objective viewpoint image that Hamas would allow a two state solution to work? It is because of Hamas and other islamic wrongdoers that Israel is forced to take a hard line in defending itself and as in any war, innocent people are unintended casualties. If Hamas did not use the tactics that it does - including using innocent people as human shields, then the current war against Hamas would not be in progress and no innocent people - on either side - would be being hurt or killed. The two state solution would only serve the Hamas terrorists in their goal of the destruction of Israel and I could never, ever support that.
This is weak from PoliticsJOE and Oli, If you're going to do serious interviews then prep and understand the lies your interviewee will bring to the table. Oli just let him rant and say things that are 100% bullshit, barely any push back on bare faced lies by Simon
I have a feeling Olli and PoliticsJoe are partaking in the dumbest game of 'we're giving both sides an equal say' ever devised. Apparently the fears of people living in leafy parts of London should carry more weight than the actual fears women and children in Gaza have of being blown to bits.
@@MyFluXx He's lying at 03:10 about the context of the marches, as there is no anti-Jewish sentiment at any march, he purposefully ignores that there is in fact a large Jewish Bloc at these marches but that won’t fit his narrow narrative. 06:48 Again lies about what is being chanted at marches, lies about what The River to the Sea means, lies when he says there is no call for peace, they’re god damn ceasefire matches. Then goes further and says the people organising the marches have links to Hamas… has no evidence for this though. 09:08 somehow Jake categorically knows what 100s of thousands of people haven’t been appalled by what happened on the 7th. I mean he couldn’t possibly know, so just makes up a statement saying they haven’t. 14:25 He lies about there not being anti-war marches against the illegal war in Iraq. I can’t be bothered to listen to any more of his bad faith arguments, however it’s no surprise that he is the editor of the Jewish Chronical as paper that keeps losing IPSO complaints because it keeps lying and libelling people. For the small size of the publication, it has an alarming number of IPSO complaints which have been upheld. In late 2021 it was found to have breached code of practice 33 times in just 3 years.
@@vdubber252k1. Clearly there is anti-Jewish sentiment - we’ve seen increase in anti-Semitic actions up 1350% - we’ve heard genocidal chants, we’ve had interviews and sermons in mosques calling for Jews to be killed. 2. You keep claiming large Jewish bloc - what do you define as large 50 Jews? They are certainly the minority of Jews in the country by a long way. 3. ‘River to sea’ is a genocidal chant used by the PLO - you can’t to claim it means something else. You going to pretend a swastika means something else because you say so 😂 4. We’ve seen 100,000’s over the world chanting intifada and jihad - not hard to make that inference. 5. Now you’re being utterly duplicitous - he wasn’t referring to the invasion of Iraq but to specifically to ISIL/Daesh being bombed in Mosul killing 11000 civilians - there was no march specifically calling that out as genocide or disproportionate or calling for a ceasefire with ISIL. Again sorry that your luxury beliefs were hurt.
While this is nice to see that someone can interview someone they don't agree with in a polite manner, you should have picked him up on the many lies he told and falsehoods he was saying
Actually watching this again, letting him speak highlights how wrong he is. This is great journalism . Drilling down into what he is saying shows his views are paper thin, especially the moronic claim more Left you are the more likely you are to support jihad.
Well one would be that Gaza isn't occupied so the Palestinians aren't occupied. What's the reason they are locked in a tiny slither of land? Can they leave, are they tightly controlled by Israel. Are their lands still occupied. Yes. So to use this as an argument that Israel isn't occupying them is a massive lie and is pretty shameful It's like taking over someone's house and letting them live in the attic. You say they can do what they want in the attic so why are they moaning
@@C1ayd0n82 The amount of money Hamas has received from Iran could have easily been spent on infrastructure, water, gas, basic necessities. Instead they spend it all on weapons. They even pulled up pipes to convert into weaponry. Yes there's a huge wall. Israel sees that as their protection, for some reason the rest of the world sees this as a prison despite not being contained. Yes Israel controls their water, simply because Palestine unfortunately has leaders that refuse to do anything economical or sustainable with the money they receive. And then of course we have the issue of Hamas using civilians as a shield. If you think Israel oppresses Palestine, then you should conclude that Hamas oppress them even more. If you want to deal with Israel interference then you should conclude Hamas should go first. There isn't a chance in hell that a 2 state solution could ever be resolved while groups such has Hamas still has reign on Palestine. A group that outright calls for the genocide of Jews.
@@C1ayd0n82 That is not occupation. That is guaranteeing the safety of Istraeli citizens. Or would you claim not having built the fence would have prevented terror attacks by Hamas? As he said, they are on an aquifer, they could have built the infrastructure. You know which part of Palestine is occupied, yes the part that Jordania illegally occupied for several decades.
I much prefer this approach of allowing people to lay out their arguments in full to the hysteria, gainsaying and sixth-form political tantrums we get from the likes of Novara and Owen Jones.
Why does he hold this perception that there was there less of an outcry about the Hamas slaughter of Jewish people? Because of the speed and scale of retaliation by Israel; the indiscriminate slaughter of innocent people. The relative numbers: the eye for the eye? 1400 deaths versus 13000 deaths.
Do you believe military power should be wielded as an eye for an eye? Should it not be wielded as a tool to accomplish specific tasks? Is it the fault of the Israelis that hamas commits war crimes by building bases, tunnels, and military infrastructure underneath and inside hospitals, schools, residential buildings, and launches unguided rockets indiscriminately at population centers, from population centers, that they take civilian hostages? That they try to prevent their own people from fleeing to cynically use them as human shields as ammunition to be used in the battle for social media sympathy? That they steal fuel from hospital generators for their own use? Would you live with it?
@@samwise1790Victim blaming too? You've got all the hits. Tell me, if the IDF can't defeat Hamas why do you expect the Palestinian civilians to just turf them out?
@@django3422I mean i get that the IDF shouldn’t be bombing areas in Gaza indiscriminately. They also shouldn’t be invading and pushing people south. However if the IDF cannot target any terrorist infrastructure due to the slightest chance of there being any civilian casualties then you’re basically telling them to sit back and wait for another October 7th. It is undeniable that Hamas has intentionally intertwined itself with the civilian population. The density of Gaza has obviously already significantly increased the rate at which casualties occur. My point though is that basically the only way that the IDF can engage with Hamas from what I’ve seen from the pro-Palestinian side is with whatever the Israeli equivalent of Navy Seal Team 6 is(if they’re not outright anti-Semitic enough to support Hamas outright). Because apparently anything that’s less concentrated and high skill than that is simply unacceptable in war which is entirely unfair to Israel. Hamas keeps on firing rockets and committing their own war crimes against both their own people and Israel which are only stopped by the technology difference between the two sides and people expect Israel to only engage in the most restrained manner possible.
@@karmaascendant3936 I do find this an oversimplification and a view that pretends like the IDF are honest actors. I'm sorry, but those who think Hamas pose any significant threat to Israel either have no context of the region or they're willfully ignorant. It's like comparing a kid with a stone vs a trained soldier in a tank. And if you don't believe that, ask yourself this: In the last month we've seen an IDF that has enough intelligence and real time information to destroy tunnels buried beneath refugee camps, command centres hidden within schools and hospitals, and even kill a Hamas terrorist being treated in an ambulance, yet on October 7 2,000 Hamas terrorists managed to gather in Gaza, PARAGLIDE over the wall with some of the most advanced detection technology in the world running it -- and let's be clear, paragliding is something that takes a fair number of minutes where you are visible in the air, 2,000 people! -- and then it takes the IDF over six hours to respond before they even know what's happening. There's only two believable conclusions you can come to if you consider those facts: Either A) The IDF allowed the attack on October 7 to go ahead, and considering we know Egypt warned Israel of something coming at least 2 days before, that should be a serious consideration Or B) The IDF aren't targetting Hamas operations at all, but are just using Hamas as the excuse to target Palestinian civilian structure because their goal is to mass murder Palestinians and has nothing to do with Hamas at all. And the sad reality is, there is a very, very high chance that both those statements are true. And honestly, it's quite surprising that there are still people out there defending Israel's actions in light of the countless interviews with Israeli politicians or political representatives who, quite frankly, do themselves no favours in appearing completely unhinged if they get even a breath of pushback on their actions.
The situation of religious Muslims in France is EXACTLY the same of Jews all the 19th and early 20th century . I think part of those supporters of Israel do so because they hate Muslims and Arabs , I've witnessed that up close
@@_covfefe and yet, when was the last time there was a crusade? A holy war? Crucifixion of enemies of Judaism or Christianity? Beheadings? Suicide bombings? Executions of heretics, apostates, atheists? Religiously justified sex slavery? And on and on. I reject entirely that there is any moral equivocation between Islam and Christianity/judaism, and I'm an avowed atheist.
Don't make a false equivalance between Judaism and Islam. There is no concept of Jihad, which is what he is talking about, not Islam, in Judaism. There simply isnt a cognate. You're generalising what he's saying.
I just learned from Jake Wallis Simons that two wrongs do make a right. So I have been in error all these years. This is great news I can now wreak any revenge I want on anyone I can reach. And almost no challenge from Oli.
Great now previously descent channels are giving even more air time to the antisemism smear against socialist. This guy and his newspaper have worked tirelessly for years to prevent any progressive change in UK. Given an unchallenged platform. Shame on you all.
Yes. Thank goodness Novara Media are around to whole heartedly support the pro-palestine protests... and to express purely hypothetical but extremely reluctant "professional curiosity" for Israeli vigils held for the UK hostages when asked if Bastani would show the same interest in them. Such lovely people. They really have their priorities in order; palestine>hamas>israel>UK.
I di not realise Joe Poltics did this, this vame up via the you tube rot, I have subscribed in the past though. I watch Novara in preference but this was in my face. I refused to watch it as I suspected the Isreali a scum bag and from the comments..good choice. Thanks.
Unlike Novara Media, which is viewer funded, JOE was rescued from financial collapse by a company called Greencastle Capital, whose chief holds appointments with other companies including advising on oil exploitation in Africa. If you're interested in a leftist project, Novara's journalism is built upon foundations in greater alignment with their cause.
I was quite disappointed with Oli's apparent inability to provide pushback to some of these arguments. I understand and appreciate that he made great attempts to be empathetic and decent, but I'm dismayed at the number of the unhinged talking points Simons was able to just state unopposed.
@@ftumschk I agree with you certainly. It's important to hear people out and I do appreciate that the guests are given the breathing room to voice their opinions in a non-hostile environment. I do however also think it's important to follow up those complete arguments with an equally complete counterpoint.
@@yesno9374 That's what I'd expect in a debate or cross-examination, for sure, but I think Oli's style works well. God knows, there are plenty of channels catering for the more confrontational kind of interview, so I welcome this alternative approach.
@@ftumschkAs a journalist, you should be in pursuit of truth. If you're interviewing someone you believe to be lying or twisting that truth then you really should call that out.
@@django3422 It's also a legitimate journalistic technique to allow the interviewee to set out THEIR "truth" in full, and the fuller the better. That way, we get a more comprehensive picture of what their stance really is. If, say, Owen Jones had conducted this interview, half of the air-time would have been taken up by the _interviewer_ giving their well-known version of THEIR "truth", and we'd have learned a whole lot less. Interviews can benefit from being more Socratic than didactic, and that is what Oli did here. Consequently, I got to know more about where the _interviewee_ was coming from than I would otherwise, even if I didn't agree with him.
His view of the situation is as myopic as that of the other side. People like him, on both sides, will drive this brutal cycle of violence onwards forever.
Very interesting interview. It reminds me of a BBC HardTalk interview with an Israeli spokesperson in the 1990's, as actually hearing him presenting his warped fascist view of the world and what kind of racist atrocities he gladly justified, changed my previously pro-Israeli stance to a more critical.
"...as far as I know Israel is doing it's best to follow the rules of law..." The lack of push back on so many elements of what Jake Wallis said in this interview was surprising and deeply disappointing. And how dare he suggest those on the left are sympathizers and enablers of Jihadis. Most of us abhor Jihadism and state violence with equal passion, and instead wish to see resolution based on dialogue, humanitarianism, and co-existence.
Biden had at least warned Israel not to repeat their mistakes made in 'The War On Terror.' Jake seems to be saying Israel should be allowed to knowingly do the same. Biden knows that the US also did so knowingly.
Terrible interview. So much could have been challenged. Why is the media not giving a voice to the thousands of Uk Jews who are marching, demanding a ceasefire, negotiated agreements and the end to occupation. If these marches were violent the police would have grounds to ban. The majority of those marching are calling for peace and justice.
What he says at 11:30 is so insane it's actually baffling. No, bombing civilians is never just, Israel doesn't have the right to wage war on whoever it deems is deserving. It's not the mature position, it's not reasonable, and worst of all it's not defensible. If you think Israel's actions can be justified by "tragic necessity," it follows that Hamas' actions can be too. So it should be all the more obvious neither is justifiable. The Hamas attack did not give Israel the right to bomb Gaza to the ground. It doesn't matter how heinous those attacks were, that doesn't ever mean civilians deserve to die. The fact it's happened in the past doesn't justify it now, because it was evil then. I don't get a free pass to kill everyone I deem responsible for harming me. How he can just sit there and so coldly accept that "the means justify the ends" is appalling. He is no different from the leaders of Hamas. Evil.
@@ads13924Which means that Palestinians should defend themselves and respond with an attack whether through Hamas or another Intifada...or do you suggest that Palestinians should always accept getting killed and displaced with no right of defence whatsoever? Before Oct the 7th, this year, hundreds of Palestinian in the west bank, including children, were shot dead! There is no Hamas there! Shouldn't they defend themselves, or what solution do you exactly suggest? Regardless, do you see this vicious cycle of aggression? Why do you think that is?
The cognitive dissonance is insane! The UN and other Human Rights experts have clearly said Israel is breaking international law, they are in breach of The Geneva protocols.
I refuse to watch him. My bet is he does not put it the context of genocide by Isreal over the last 75 yrs against a helpless victim, the Palestinains. This is just an excuse for more colonial expansion, the Zionist project. Thanks, I agree.
Some points raised by JWS went so insufficiently challenged, that they were essentially calling the night day and the day night, so much so that it undermined the point have having a second person in the video - just let the guy sit in front of the camera for 40 mins giving token concessions to the barbarity being carried out on innocent civilians by the Israeli government and pouring all the scorn on the barbarity being carried out by Hamas. Both are truly awful, but this video was basically 40 mins of unchalleneged "gaza isnt and hasn't been an open air prison for years" which is just poor journalism. Don't get me wrong, I support the show and the work the team does, but this was a miss. It happens, but it wont change my core opinion of guys.
Just read the introduction to his Israelophobia book there on Google Books. He makes all the usual points about atrocities in Syria never generating the same level of protest - he says all over the world but only seems concerned about specifics in the UK and USA. Doesn’t mention money and arms though, funny that.
Thi si is a silly argument by him and others. The Uk govermewnt does not provide military support and political support to the state of Syria, the Uk goverment does provide these things to Israel. Therfore it's not an analageous comparision. People protest in the Uk againts the UKs facilitation of Isralis war crimes.
@@Cronhour what war crimes has Israel committed in this war, specifically? I'd advise you actually read what international law says about it, rather than what you feel constitutes a war crime. Hint: bombing a hospital when the hospital is used for hostile purposes, is not a war crime: precisely the opposite is true. Also, civilian casualties while striking a legitimate military target is also not a war crime (it is not good, and tragic, but not a war crime); specifically targeting civilians IS a war crime, but good luck finding evidence of that which isnt a 'trust me bro' from Hamas, a terrorist organization, which has already lied about things like the hospital attack which turned out to be their own failed rocket.
@@samwise1790 even if you want to abjectly deny the bombing of the hospitals and refugee camps as not being war crimes, collective punishment in the way that Palestinians in the Gaza Strip are being denied most of their food, water, and electricity is a war crime. I'll even give you leeway on that if you really want to deny that it constitutes a war crime. Many sources have documented Israeli forces having used White Phosphorus in their bombing of the Gaza Strip. The use of White Phosphorus is categorically deemed a war crime. No ifs, ands, or buts about it. So even with all the extremely generous leeway given, Israel are committing war crimes and should be compelled to stop. For what it's worth, I don't agree with any of the justifications that Israel has used for their bombing of civilian targets like hospitals, refugee camps, bakeries, or schools. IDF constantly lies again and again. There are so many occasions to be drawn upon for their lies but the one that is arguably most recent that wasn't marred by the fog of war is the murder of Shireen Abu-Akleh. I'll go into details of that if you request me to but no sane people should come away from that thinking the IDF are in any way trustworthy when it comes to their strikes. Edit: missed the part about you saying it was categorically a Hamas misfired rocket. I suppose you believe the audio tape to be definitive proof, despite many experts debunking that. Some experts have also stated that the explosion caught by footage would not track with the smaller munition size that Hamas has. That also disregards Israel having threatened to bomb the hospital days before. The distrust of Palestinian death toll after that bombing was due to a misunderstanding by Al Jazeera news in the immediate aftermath, where they mistook a doctor at the hospital as saying 500 victims were killed, as opposed to 500 victims injured by that bomb. The death numbers from Hamas's health ministries have always historically been considered reliable unlike IDF narratives that have often been misleading at best, outright falsified at worst.
Sorry, but those arguments about what "we" did in World War 2 and Iraq are weak as fuck. It's whataboutery. The things "we" did were horrific, but does that make what Israel's government is doing right now correct or proportionate? It also seems that he's implying there were no protests against the Iraq War or acts that took place during it, which is just faftually wrong. And shit, he's just said there's no occupation in Gaza. Christ. Oh no, he is saying you could argue it's an occupation but most people who are anti Zionist actually think the whole of Palestine is occupied. Source: trust me bro And now he's off on some metaphorical tangent about abortion and complaining about the UK and US again. I cant watch this further. It's not a "double standard" to think that Israel is committing an atrocity right now, just because the UK has a dreadful foreign policy record - i think those things are bad as well! Both things can be true!
The double standard he's referring to is the ability to hold Israel to account rather than the UK to account - he is describing a power dynamic whereby it is much easier to hold Israel to account, and the steepness of that curve is accellerated by anti-semitism. That's his argument.
The jewish Chronicle is famous for it's lack of standards and has breached IPSo guidelines a shocking number of times. Besided presiding over a famously partisan and inaccurate paper of abuse he also wrote racist meassages on Twitter then lied about it on National television when on Question time. He is a bad faith actor and should not be taken seriously.
@@chdolan3530 Centrism is the death of debate. And the "two sides are equal arguement" is a dangerous falacy that enables more divisive views more air time than they otherwise should have. This man is clearly a partisan and the interviewer barely pushed his talking points. This is NOT balanced journalism.
@@adammitxhell2932 Most of us have our own uncritical lenses, and we don't always need gobby RUclipsrs to tell us how to think. There's certainly room for interviews where guests are allowed to elaborate their argument, and the audience can draw their own conclusions. I much prefer this interviewing style than that in which the interviewer is hell bent on getting _their_ views across by scoring undergraduate-level political points.
12:00 yes lets just ignore the geneva convention, without understanding that the reason it exists was because of events like that. Civis can just get fucked.
Are you actually going to bring up the reason this is happening the brutality of Israel since 1948 im shocked you are giving him a free unchallenged platform
Much prefer this type of journalism, that allows people to express their opinions in full, rather than combatative narrativising echo chambers - not all platforms are for being challenged - some are for being listened to. And you should listen to views you dont agree with, interrogate why you dont agree with them, and then you yourself will have a more robust opinion.
Could the same about any person who shows support for their indigenous homeland. Am I to assume you take issue with Indian or Pakistani Brits being pro the country of their heritage ?
Afaiu the wife of the SNP leader has only rarely been allowed in the country Gaza to see her dr brother & he isn’t allowed much/ any travel out. I think that is what meant by it being a prison.
I take severe issue with the sledgehammer and ham fisted idea that the more left you are, the more you support Jihadis. By the same logic, the more right leaning you are, the more you support Nazis, which whilst seemingly plausible in the simpletons populist mind, it disgustingly ignores the context and nuance that is peoples political beliefs to fit his own profound belief and desperate need of being right. The idea that it's one or the other and not a spectrum is where this, i suspect knowingly pig headed view comes from
The support he then explained, if you'd listened, was that there is an anti-capitalist, anti-western, anti-imperailist strain within the left that dovetails with Jihadism because of its complete adherence to ideology, rather than reality; using that ideology to shape their reality first. The difference is in the concept of a utopia that these political positions wish to create. That's what he's saying.
Really? Lets say one of your relatives was killed in the bombing the IRA carried out in say Warrington? Would you be supportive of the IRA if you were in that position?
Dresden line, every Isreali governement official has spouted that out. Do they not have any new lines. You would be hard pushed to find anyone that would consider most of WW1 and WW2 actions no to be war crimes. The whole point is never again is not using a Countries past war crimes as hall pass for yours.
Pro racist you mean why would have him on the show to spread his vile crap .. he had to apologise on bbc question time about his comments didn’t hear you mention that or confronted him about his comments ..
I agree with the analogy of Israel was born 75 years ago. No one in their right mind should accept killing a 75 year old. But that 75 year old needs to stop being greedy and wanting to benefit from oppressing their neighbour and grabbing things they do not own. It is time for that 75 year old to accept the legal boundries and borders of their ownership and to stop citing 3000 year old scripture. This is not civlised, nor secular, nor 'western' ideals.
This is the problem, everyone who has a opinion that you don't agree with you label them the usual name calling to shut the conversation down, when in reality the left are the real fascists, the government are not right wing they are told what to do to cause division, you might not like it but you and I are both the same
@@stujujitwingfut5192 This is literally what you're doing! I've tried to engage you in discussion and you're shutting it down, name calling and labelling"fascist."
@@stujujitwingfut5192 I know. Everything we are told is actually the opposite. People who believe in social democracy are the real fascists. Indiscriminate bombing of civilians is the right to self defense. Matching for an armistice on armistice day is hate etc. etc.
this man has been given a platform to say '' ocupation, whatever that is, it's not occupied''... and you have sat and listened to him lie. i'm unsubscribing i cannot listen.
JC would even call Netanyahu "My friend". It is, and always has, used that in all his dealings over the years. Please don't interpret the phrase out of context.
@SK-ei4cm It is JC's common greeting. He would use it for Labour or Conservative. Has he ever met Netanyahu? He is a concillatory character, met Arafat, and many other leaders. He brokered peace in Northern Ireland long before Blair got involved. Those critics never understood his stances nor his efforts. Definitely not anti-semitic but anti-Zionist as are many Jews.
@@alanmansell4297 you say he’s conciliatory yet he only meets one side ?? How many Israeli leaders has he met ? Also what peace did Corbyn broker in NI? He solely met republicans and was an ardent supporter of republicanism in NI.
@@alanmansell4297 also you say it’s his common greeting ? How come he never referred to his politics opponents by that moniker yet was content to use it for those who advocate the extermination of the Jews
Neither did the IRA, yet if one of your relatives had been killed in lets say the Warrington bombing, perhaps you're a relative of 3yr old Jonathon Ball who sadly lost his life courtesy of the IRA? What would your reaction be? Would you go all kumbaya? Or would you think the IRA needed taking care of by whatever means necessary?
@markmaher4548 I was hilighting his reasons for this genocide as being the same as the war between Germany and the UK , and how did the fighting stop between the IRA and the UK come about it wasn't the British dropping huge bombs on hospitals, schools and church's
@@markmaher4548 but the northen ireland conflict ended through negotiated peace and the end of British occupation. we didn't kill 10000 of them in a couple of weeks and flatten half of Dublin in the 80s did we? IF you want to end terrorism then you need to adress the cause of Terrorism, which is predominatly occupation. Btw I grew up near warrington, went there every weekend and was near the Arndale centre when that went off. Your argument is one supporting the murder of Kids
Paragraph 139 of the international court of justice advisory opinion on the legality of the wall dated 2004 makes it clear that Israel does not have the right of self defence under article 51 of the UN charter in relation to attacks that emanate from within g occupied territory that it controls. Gaza is occupied territory. “The Court recalls that Annex I to the report of the Secretary-General states, however, that, according to Israel: "the construction of the Barrier is consistent with Article 51 of the Charter of the United Nations, its inherent right to self-defence and Security Council resolutions 1368 (2001) and 1373 (2001)". Article 51 of the Charter, the Court notes, recognizes the existence of an inherent right of self-defence in the case of armed attack by one State against another State. However, Israel does not claim that the attacks against it are imputable to a foreign State. The Court also notes that Israel exercises control in the Occupied Palestinian Territory and that, as Israel itself states, the threat which it regards as justifying the construction of the wall originates within, and not outside, that territory. The situation is thus different from that contemplated by Security Council resolutions 1368 (2001) and 1373 (2001), and therefore Israel could not in any event invoke those resolutions in support of its claim to be exercising a right of self-defence. Consequently, the Court concludes that Article 51 of the Charter has no relevance in this case. The Court considers further whether Israel could rely on a state of necessity which would preclude the wrongfulness of the construction of the wall. In this regard, citing its decision in the case concerning the Gabcikovo-Nagymaros Project (Hungary/Slovakia), it observes that the state of necessity is a ground recognized by customary international law that "can only be invoked under certain strictly defined conditions which must be cumulatively satisfied" (L.C.J. Reports 1997, p. 40, para. 51), one of those conditions being that the act at issue be the only way for the State to guard an essential interest against a grave and imminent peril. In the light of the material before it, the Court is not convinced that the construction of the wall along the route chosen was the only means to safeguard the interests of Israel against the peril which it has invoked as justification for that construction. While Israel has the right, and indeed the duty to respond to the numerous and deadly acts of violence directed against its civilian population, in order to protect the life of its citizens, the measures taken are bound to remain in conformity with applicable international law. Israel cannot rely on a right of self-defence or on a state of necessity in order to preclude the wrongfulness of the construction of the wall. The Court accordingly finds that the construction of the wall, and its associated régime, are contrary to international law.”
@@mwd331 because the easy ride they gave this guy compared to their treatment of pro-Palestinian guests belies either a pro-Apartheid bias, or cowardice when it comes time to speak truth to power. Either deserves an unsubscribe.
Great idea to invite him. Lost opportunity though to have a real discussion. They more or less let him pontificate unopposed. PJoe just lost a lot of impact on me.
If Israel wants to stop the hate, they could start by listening to the many Jewish people, including those that are actual victims of the holocaust, and start working toward peace. Acknowledging their neighbors as equal would be a good start.
How is "from the river to the sea, Palestine will be free" regarded as anti-semitic, but its OK for Netanyahu to say "“Between the sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty.” (founding charter for the Likud party).
Dipsh1t Likud adopted the genocidal PLO slogan in their charter which they got rid off. No one is going to pretend it’s ok for that to be said buddy - just admit it’s a genocidal chant whoever uses it.
You guys fell off so, so hard trying to cover this situation when it's so obviously beyond your comfort zone. Are you going to have a hardline ani-Israel Islamist on too? If not, wtf is the point of this show discussing issues beyond Andrew Marr Westminster sh**? No real moral voice and no 'balance' - worst of both worlds.
OK. Let's say for a second that instead of Jewish people, this military action against Palestinians was being caried out by country of Jamaicans or Māori. Is the contention that the woke Palestinian protestors wouldn't be as critical? That's there is some uniquely Jewish aspect of this ethnic cleansing that we wokies are criticising? What a load of bollocks.
The ethnic cleansing in the middle east is the one of the Jewish people from every country in the middle east. That is a fact that is based in reality.
You're imagining a contrived example that is divorced from any sense of reality to prove a logical point that also doesn't make sense. Yes, there is an anti-semitic element to anti-israel, pro-palestine support, and you'd be a fool to ignore it - the very ignorance of the alliance the hard left blindly make, that he's also claiming. There is a much steeper curve to criticism of Israel than there is criticism of any western nation. Why do you think this is?
Yup - you weren’t as critical for the Tibetans, Uyghurs or Yemenis. Where were the outrage marches for Darfur - didn’t exist. No left media outlet is covering the ethnic cleansing of 1.7million Afghans occurring right now. You’re right you’re a load of bollocks mate.
Overall very interesting interview, and good to air the thought out opinions of someone with a differing standpoint who is still clearly compassionate. A bit more pushback would have been welcome, in particular to the tacit suggestion that atrocities in Dresden, Afghanistan, Iraq, and lack of popular protest against Uighur imprisonment means that protesting the war is misguided and somehow an expression of support for hamas.
Havent watched it but you have saved my time as this is what I suspected .... he a scum bag criminal sitting in a suit in a nice office defending the indefencible, genocide of the Palestinainas by the Israelis, just like the Nazis did to the Jews....a scum bag.
My big concern about these protests which make me feel like they are being coordinated is the fact no one protests china’s actual genocide against the Uighurs in Xinjiang or against Azerbaijan for its ethnic cleansing of Armenians recently. Not justifying anything and Israel needs to pull out and come up with a real plan while Hamas also need to be punished for its crimes. I don’t know how and I’m glad me and you reading this aren’t making those decisions
Does the Uk goverment provide military and political support to either if the states carrying these out? It's not an analageous situation. IF the UK goverment facilitated either of these acts then protest against the UK state would be valid. The UK state does facilitate Israels war crimes and genocide,. It does this though Military support, it does this through finacial support, and it does this through political coverage. Your argument is naive or dishonest. I'm hoping it's the first one.
Well the UK government does support the Azeri state through purchasing its oil and gas from Baku. This is then invested into the Azeri military which has committed these crimes. I don’t know how much but Baku was one of the places which benefits most from western nations purchasing their oil and gas. China is china hit you could argue the neoliberal western investment of China has provided them the resources to commit this act. I know Uighur Muslims and they told me what’s happening in xinjiang and it’s so sad. Highly recommend watched a vice documentary on it if you have the chance!
@@ads13924 I think all genocide and ethics clensing is abhorrent. However I'm not a Chinese or Azerbaijan citizen and unless I'm mistake we don't provide military, financial or political support to either action. Infact our government has openly criticized China. You pretending this is an analogous situation is dishonest. The fact that you do it to support warcrimes is abhorrent.
At first I was kind of annoyed at Oli. He could have easily left, gone to the fridge and got a beer, come back, go on his phone for a bit and taken a nap. It would have had a greater impact on the trajectory of the conversation than just nodding along and every now and again going: "That's so thought provoking! Tell us more about how the left are privileged idiot jihadis." But then I realised the more you let this guy speak the more he is at ease to express his actual opinions. And then you have a far more accurate picture of his politics.
I'm all for "hearing from the other side" and "speaking to people you disagree with" but what was the purpose of this and why was this such a grovelling interview???
This guy was given so much more time and respect than Corbyn. He's not wrong about everything, but he is wrong about quite a lot, and I think you would've done well to challenge him a little more.
I would agree, but that isn’t the style of JoePol, more novara. More conversation than debate. They do this with a lot of speakers or guests.
@@mystic_mimi21I know what you mean, but I think that if you allow certain things to be said without any pushback or verification, you, to some degree, legitimise whatever is being said
Maybe we've found an algorithm that allots time based on intellect and open mindedness!
@@somebloke2238 Well that can't be true, you can also have a person being interviewed on the merits of what they are saying as their own opinion, perspective, and valued as such rather than being pushed towards by what is "right" and what is "wrong" as you so deftly and intricately put it...
And my question to you - Why should he be challenged immediately before being listened to? Why not be listened to and asked to clarify his statements, as he has been in this interview? To have it your way would lead to a complete death of freedom of speech by asphyxiation.
While I'd also like more pushback, I can see value in allowing these ghouls to express their opinion in full, so we can see exactly what they're all about. The downside is that it gives them carte blanche to spout propaganda that they know is false and don't believe, but are aware of it being useful to muddy the waters to forward their agenda. It's a double edges sword.
He forgot to mention that many of the people on the march are Jews. Many Jews oppose the Israeli response. Conflating criticism of Israeli war crimes with support for Hamas' terrorism is utter nonsense. Both are obviously wrong. People condemned Hamas' attack when it happened and now they are condemning Israel's over response because that is what is happening now. Im not sure this guy accurately represents the Jewish community otherwise he would be discuss all the differing opinions within in it, including those of anti-Zionist Jews. He nearly mentions them but then interrupts himself : 19:49 .
Pointing out that Hamas' killed 1000 innocent civilians does not justify Israel killing another 9000 in response. Pointing that out isnt Jihadism or anti-Semitism. Its just human compassion. Many Jews condemn both of those attrocities. Why doesnt this guy? He just glosses over it. It isnt hard. Just say that killing innocent citizens is wrong. Its wrong when Hamas kills 1000 and its wrong when Israel responds by killing another 9000. Nothing to do with Jihadism or anti Semitism.
Even Israel admits two thirds of those killed were Israeli military and idf actually killed some of their own people.
I think he like many Isrealis don't consider Palestinians as humans . Otherwise they won't have festival music near people in permanent suffering
@@anti-genocide on land they fiched from Palestinians
@@anti-genocide a music festival for peace.. nice1 troll account
@@anti-genocide I don't think that is relevant. Hamas' attack was horrendous, sickening and inexcusable. However, the Israeli media response was not only to express their justified outrage, they also spread misinformation. It seems there were no decapitated babies. So why did the Israeli government spread that lie? To distract from their disproportionate response that they knew was actually going to really result in thousands of dead children.
This guy's argument of 'Other countries get away with being evil so why can't Israel? Anyone who criticises them is a hypocrite' is laughably bad. I like many, I criticise all governments for their crimes - including my own.
Pure propaganda.
Condescending twerp.
" if you disagree with me then you agree with them " - all tyrants ever
Ironically, this entire comment section is representation of your comment
@adelle9025 You might want to look inward and ask yourself why you find yourself in such a tiny minority.
@@NivekJSmithis there something wrong with minorities ?
@@ads13924How so? Because its people calling out in support of Palestinian civilians or for peace in general who are frequently told that they're just terrorist supporters.
@@django3422 Because it's not actual peace that is asked for. What happens to the Hostages? Do hamas get to keep them? You will probably say no... but then how do you get them back?
Just popping in to say that the population of gaza is not Hamas. There is a bit of a difference, also that nothing will ever happen towards a peaceful solution unless all settlements in the west bank are unilaterally pulled back from.
The quote in the thumbnail of this video is absurd. The same impulse that leads many to empathise with the human suffering of civilians in Gaza or the oppression in the West Bank is the same impulse that informs the horror we feel at the industrial scale destruction of Jewish life by the Nazis. Just because the suffering and oppression of Palestinians is being enacted by the state of Israel, should we then just allow it? Could we turn off our empathy for other humans even if we wanted to? It's so obviously not an anti-Semitic impulse. Just a human one.
Its a shame the empathy doesn't seem to extend to UK citizens who are hostages.
No protests for them, no calls for Hamas to give them back even though its been made explicitly clear this all ends when the hostages are released.
I guess its *safer* to criticize Israel.
I wonder how much you would demand Israel stop if you were the one being abused in the "care" of Hamas. Its a mystery.
Wise words. Respect.
I dont know about you, but the horror I feel at the German genocide of the Jews, has less to do with 'a lot of people died' and quite a lot more to do with WHY those people died. I do not feel the same emotion when I think about the loss of life in combat or indirectly due to combat in ww2, or under the stalinist famines and purges, or even the civilian deaths in Iraq and Afghanistan. The palestinian civilians dying in gaza are not dying in a systematic plan to kill all Palestinians via genocide, but as collateral damage in the goal of destroying Hamas. If you cant see a moral and ethical distinction in that, I dont know what to say.
Israel has the capability to at any time enact a genocide and expulsion of all Palestinians from gaza and the west Bank, but not the intent; hamas/PIJ/Hezbollah/Iran have the intent, but not the means.
@@LeoRikimaru I appreciate the place you're coming from but that also lacks context. While Hamas militants still controlled some kibbutzes in Southern Israel after the horrific attack on October 7th, the IDF course of action was to immediately bomb Gaza. It wasn't to shore up and take back control of their lands in the first place. Israeli government position at the start was they didn't want to negotiate. The first two hostages released were American citizens that were negotiated out by Qatar. The next two were released by Hamas with the aid of international aid groups present. Netanyahu held a televised meeting with a supposed family member of one of the hostages to have them say their support for the bombing campaign, that person was later revealed to not be a family member of any of the tragic hostages. In Israel itself, many family members of the hostages have been calling for an end to the attacks on Gaza.
I cannot and will not justify any of the atrocities committed by Hamas on October 7th but the reason the protests are calling for a ceasefire is because the UK sends support to Israel in their efforts of ethnic cleansing. Do you think the UK would be able to have any remote influence on Hamas in the same way it very slightly could towards Israel? I'm not saying that under any delusions of the UK being a strong power in the world anymore, but our government is aiding and abetting the war crimes Israel are committing at this moment in time.
Again, I feel for Israeli citizens and the larger Jewish community, a considerable amount of the latter also support the emancipation for Palestine. I can't comment on their grief and how best they should react to any of the marches for a cease-fire. It's not my place to judge their pain. I do wish that Hamas would release the hostages, but I also want Israel to work towards that diplomatically.
There are so many more points I could talk about with regards to how dastardly the Israeli government is, and how they deliberately conflate Zionism to Judaism so any criticisms of their actions are immediately tarred as being anti-Semitic. I won't bombard it all in one comment but I'm open to having a discussion if you are on a platform of your choice. I hope if you have read this reply all the way through that I do not hold any negativity towards you, I just think you're missing important context as to why that whataboutism is not helpful here.
@@LeoRikimaru So if the comment suggests empathy for ALL Human beings that are being harmed or suffering, why would you give it this narrowminded enterpretation? Is it because that is how you categorise people? Clearly someone living in the UK protests against the failings of the UK government. You don't need to chastice the UK government for not caring about dead or kidnapped Israelis when they clearly already do.
Apparently, we are not allowed to believe our own eyes, ears and minds anymore, or call for Peace without being labelled.
Yup, unlike in Iraq, we have pretty much real time video of what’s happening. We know what settlers, the IDF, Israelis and Israeli leaders believe. We know their motivations.
@@LCOF It's also made many of of us go much deeper into history than ever before. I would add, though, that many Israelis don't fall in line with the rest. Peace is the only possible route to security.
I think if they keep telling a great big lie over and over then we will start believing these criminals.
@@LCOF Do you really? What are their motivations please?
@@Solid_Soup Israeli's who are zionists want the land for themselves. It's pretty straight forward. Go watch the Israeli documentary Tantura.
This guy needed to be challenged more in this interview
I wonder what footage he have seen to make his judgement on the marches. I haven't seen the majority of people chanting what he said. Instead they were chanting ceasefire. I did see a very small group (rightfully arrested many by MET) chanting Hamas rhetoric but 95% was marching for ceasefire. The ignorance on his part is mind blowing. The march organisers made it very clear that 7th of Oct was a massacre by Hamas. Him telling they had made no signs of condemning just falls into the abyss. Begs the question if he is independent at all in judging this conflict.
Well this is an unhinged title before anything else starts.
his "it's your own fault we're commiting warcrimes" argument is batshit.
Same stuff rhe NAzis used in occupied France for same response to resistance.
Where did he say that?
Except it's the argument of every abuser--you made me hurt you.
@@magieread5846Yeah it’s straight up “look what you made me do” logic. Twisted af when applied to 2.4 million people.
Drinking game time. Take a sip of beer every time he:-
Says something racist, or that could be construed as racist.
Says something slanderous/libellous.
Makes an assertion with zero evidence to back it up.
Talks friendship with people, who a hundred years ago would have viewed him in a very different light.
That included us in England who regulary burnt jewish people alive & other varied and inventive punishments from about 1190 through to roughly 1275 when Edward I expelled anyone of the jewish faith from England. There's a fair bit of history here that shapes modern jewish thinking, & that's a fair few centuries before we broach the subject of pogroms during the 20th century.
Sorry what did he say was racist then ?
@@samt7351 much of muslim culture is in the grip of a death cult? ''Many'' of them brainwashed
@@samt7351I'm going to go ahead and take a guess that he was referring to the repeated justifications of genocide, the false equivalence of Hamas and Palestinians, and the double standards repeatedly made between the value of an Israeli life versus that of a Palestinian life.
@@NivekJSmithproof of that ? Show me a quote where he said “genocide” was ok
I'm humanist, all life is equally important. All religions are created by man.
Yes and this is not about religion, its about USA power and its access and control of oil and gas, Isreal is an outpost of the USA serving this purpose. The genocide of East Timorese eg was by Indoensia a Muslim country backed by the USA. Its not religion. The nuts in Isreal think it is and are attempting to manipulate this context to their advantage. Behind it all is the uSA as aggressor, read Naom Comsky for well sourced facts to back all this up.
Poppycock. Whilst most religions are man made. True religion was established by god with the genesis of mankind.
The more right wing you are then the closer you are to fascism
Really because the Soviet Union and Russia are very much fascist states considered on the far left. (Yes and the USSR was very much ethnonationalist by deporting minorities to Siberia and resettling areas with ‘white’ Russians and promoting Russian culture).
It doesn't matter which direction you travel on the political scale, go too far and you will end up a fascist, fascism is not exclusive to the far right. The key elements are censorship, threats of violence and acts of violence and both sides engage in cancel culture, threats and violence
And retardation
Fascism transcends the Left v Right paradigm.
@@evolassunglasses4673 No it doesn't it's right wing
His summary of the far left supporting jihad is a crass misrepresentation of why I think people on the left feel empathy for the oppressed.
For example, many on the left feel sympathy with trump supporters, just like they feel sympathy for average palestinians. Doesnt mean they support Trump or support Hamas.
You can feel sympathy for the oppression that feeds a mindset, without supporting their conclusion.
This. Totally this. I wish I could explain my leftist views as concisely as you just did.
Trump supporters and jihadists are very very different kettles of fish.
Islam is the most clever religion, islam will use liberal left when they are minority when they get majority they will wipeout left to implement shariah law
It’s not every day that you have your intelligence and humanity insulted so thoroughly.
I actually cannot believe how hard this guy crumbled and just allowed genocidal anti semetic and racist comments from this IDF soldier. Yuck it’s so “wolley” ?!! You’re supposed to be a journalist not a host. Keep the chin stroking up though good job on looking serious.
Please explain.
@@therichieboy read between the lines, dippy.
What exactly are you insulted by?
Not to you, but the other replies...
Stop sealioning. If you can't work it out then an explanation is just an invitation to have our intelligences insulted further.
Killing x10 people that were killed initially is bad. "pUhLeAsE eXPlAiN".
This Jake muppet then he’s about to get a lot of lawsuits for defamation.
The more right-wing you are, the closer you are to sociopathy.
You’re beyond help, just like those ‘’gays for Palestine’’ lol
@@Dan-lg4bs You're upset because they won't let you join?
@@hg82metchicken for KFC
@@Dan-lg4bs Palestine had a strong secular movement in the form of the PLO and had united the people with a lot of support. What followed was the skewed Oslo Accords, the assassination of Yitzhak Rabin at the hands of an Israeli Nationalist, and the deliberate delay by Benjamin 'Bibi' Netanyahu to let the Oslo Accords time out. That was despite the overwhelming skew towards Israel that the Accords provided.
I know this is a huge ask, but I would like to know how you feel about Nelson Mandela. In particular with regards to how the fight for emancipation for black people under that apartheid regime in South Africa.
spot on
Olly failing to push back at all. Disappointing.
I find it refreshing. It's good to hear someone giving their side in full, instead of the interviewer wasting half the time indulging their egos by interrupting and point-scoring.
@@ftumschkchallenging obvious bullshit is not point scoring. It’s journalistic integrity. You can let someone speak at length and at the same time challenge.
@@Bucketheadhead ... what, and take up half the runtime with the _presenter's_ views?
Besides, since much of it IS obvious bullshit, I don't see there was much point in Oli pointing it out... unless to gratify our OWN egos that we, too, were clever enough to spot the crap when it appeared. That's what echo chambers are for, after all, but thankfully this interview was the antithesis of an echo chamber, and it's a legitimate approach to journalism.
Rather than constantly challenge, I think it can be useful if the guest is allowed to give their side in full, if only on the basis of the saying that "if give a man enough rope and he'll hang himself".
@@ftumschk It is entirely possible to challenge someone’s position concisely and let the other person speak at length. This is so ridiculously obvious I can’t believe I need to point it out.
@@ftumschkYou're immediately conflating calling out lies with the presenter simply giving their opinion.
That is not the point at all. It's about highlighting when false information is used to try and make a point. That's it.
Because content like this IS how many people learn about what is happening. That's why news media exists. What you're arguing for is how we end up with the invasion of Iraq.
Did this guy claim there was no protest when we went to Iraq?
He did indeed. Those millions of "Leftists" trying to prevent war by protesting apparently didn't say a word.
Are you dense? He himself said he was on the Iraq protest.
@hansgruber9093 his argument was:
"Right wingers did the war in Iraq, so now lefties can't protest against the Israeli genocide".
As you can see, it is an utterly incoherent position to take.
He's claiming there was no protest when the RAF bombed ISIS in Iraq in 2017/2018, which I believe is largely true, certainly no protesting on the scale we're seeing now.
@@jacobweddell2438 First he referensed the invasion of Iraq after 9/11, in 2003. It was preceded by a massive worldwide protest on 15 february 2003. @30.20
One of the things I hate about the two state solution is that Israel gets to pretend they are fighting against another state. They have all the power, this is closer to an insurgency in a purposely underfunded underdeveloped region rather than state vs state warfare. In a single state, ethnic violence on this scale would be seen as a complete failure of the state rather than "a complicated issue between 2 states".
Well said.
A state being more powerful than another is not indicative of whether the other is a state or not. The State of Palestine is a legal entity on the international stage, irregardless of whether it has formally declared independence or not.
What I dislike about the two state solution is that whilst Israel would comply with this arrangement, the Hamas terrorists would not. They have a sworn goal of the destruction of Israel and the utter destruction of all Jews worldwide. Why then would anybody who takes an objective viewpoint image that Hamas would allow a two state solution to work?
It is because of Hamas and other islamic wrongdoers that Israel is forced to take a hard line in defending itself and as in any war, innocent people are unintended casualties. If Hamas did not use the tactics that it does - including using innocent people as human shields, then the current war against Hamas would not be in progress and no innocent people - on either side - would be being hurt or killed.
The two state solution would only serve the Hamas terrorists in their goal of the destruction of Israel and I could never, ever support that.
@@bonghead6621but totally wrong.
Yet paradoxically Israel at the same time claims Palestine is not a place, and lots of Zionist types claim Palestinians are not a real people.
Disappointing, painful to watch. Challenge him?
That’s not really his style, he treated corbyn and others with opposite views the same
This is weak from PoliticsJOE and Oli, If you're going to do serious interviews then prep and understand the lies your interviewee will bring to the table. Oli just let him rant and say things that are 100% bullshit, barely any push back on bare faced lies by Simon
I have a feeling Olli and PoliticsJoe are partaking in the dumbest game of 'we're giving both sides an equal say' ever devised. Apparently the fears of people living in leafy parts of London should carry more weight than the actual fears women and children in Gaza have of being blown to bits.
List a couple of the lies? I would be interested in looking into them further
@@MyFluXx He's lying at 03:10 about the context of the marches, as there is no anti-Jewish sentiment at any march, he purposefully ignores that there is in fact a large Jewish Bloc at these marches but that won’t fit his narrow narrative.
06:48 Again lies about what is being chanted at marches, lies about what The River to the Sea means, lies when he says there is no call for peace, they’re god damn ceasefire matches. Then goes further and says the people organising the marches have links to Hamas… has no evidence for this though.
09:08 somehow Jake categorically knows what 100s of thousands of people haven’t been appalled by what happened on the 7th. I mean he couldn’t possibly know, so just makes up a statement saying they haven’t.
14:25 He lies about there not being anti-war marches against the illegal war in Iraq.
I can’t be bothered to listen to any more of his bad faith arguments, however it’s no surprise that he is the editor of the Jewish Chronical as paper that keeps losing IPSO complaints because it keeps lying and libelling people. For the small size of the publication, it has an alarming number of IPSO complaints which have been upheld. In late 2021 it was found to have breached code of practice 33 times in just 3 years.
@@vdubber252k1. Clearly there is anti-Jewish sentiment - we’ve seen increase in anti-Semitic actions up 1350% - we’ve heard genocidal chants, we’ve had interviews and sermons in mosques calling for Jews to be killed.
2. You keep claiming large Jewish bloc - what do you define as large 50 Jews? They are certainly the minority of Jews in the country by a long way.
3. ‘River to sea’ is a genocidal chant used by the PLO - you can’t to claim it means something else. You going to pretend a swastika means something else because you say so 😂
4. We’ve seen 100,000’s over the world chanting intifada and jihad - not hard to make that inference.
5. Now you’re being utterly duplicitous - he wasn’t referring to the invasion of Iraq but to specifically to ISIL/Daesh being bombed in Mosul killing 11000 civilians - there was no march specifically calling that out as genocide or disproportionate or calling for a ceasefire with ISIL.
Again sorry that your luxury beliefs were hurt.
@@vdubber252k much appreciated
While this is nice to see that someone can interview someone they don't agree with in a polite manner, you should have picked him up on the many lies he told and falsehoods he was saying
Actually watching this again, letting him speak highlights how wrong he is. This is great journalism . Drilling down into what he is saying shows his views are paper thin, especially the moronic claim more Left you are the more likely you are to support jihad.
And what would these be?
Well one would be that Gaza isn't occupied so the Palestinians aren't occupied. What's the reason they are locked in a tiny slither of land? Can they leave, are they tightly controlled by Israel. Are their lands still occupied. Yes. So to use this as an argument that Israel isn't occupying them is a massive lie and is pretty shameful
It's like taking over someone's house and letting them live in the attic. You say they can do what they want in the attic so why are they moaning
@@C1ayd0n82 The amount of money Hamas has received from Iran could have easily been spent on infrastructure, water, gas, basic necessities. Instead they spend it all on weapons. They even pulled up pipes to convert into weaponry. Yes there's a huge wall. Israel sees that as their protection, for some reason the rest of the world sees this as a prison despite not being contained. Yes Israel controls their water, simply because Palestine unfortunately has leaders that refuse to do anything economical or sustainable with the money they receive. And then of course we have the issue of Hamas using civilians as a shield. If you think Israel oppresses Palestine, then you should conclude that Hamas oppress them even more. If you want to deal with Israel interference then you should conclude Hamas should go first. There isn't a chance in hell that a 2 state solution could ever be resolved while groups such has Hamas still has reign on Palestine. A group that outright calls for the genocide of Jews.
@@C1ayd0n82 That is not occupation. That is guaranteeing the safety of Istraeli citizens. Or would you claim not having built the fence would have prevented terror attacks by Hamas?
As he said, they are on an aquifer, they could have built the infrastructure.
You know which part of Palestine is occupied, yes the part that Jordania illegally occupied for several decades.
he's trolling us, right?
this is embarrassing from politicsjoe
Agreed 👍👍👍👍👍
Very disappointed in Joe .🇵🇸🇵🇸🇵🇸🇵🇸🇵🇸🇵🇸
THIS GUY?! REALLY?! come on JOE, for heaven's sake, do better, please!
I much prefer this approach of allowing people to lay out their arguments in full to the hysteria, gainsaying and sixth-form political tantrums we get from the likes of Novara and Owen Jones.
C’mon they had a proven antisemite (Corbyn) on earlier in the week . They have all sorts on Joe
@@ftumschk Me too.
Why does he hold this perception that there was there less of an outcry about the Hamas slaughter of Jewish people? Because of the speed and scale of retaliation by Israel; the indiscriminate slaughter of innocent people. The relative numbers: the eye for the eye? 1400 deaths versus 13000 deaths.
Do you believe military power should be wielded as an eye for an eye? Should it not be wielded as a tool to accomplish specific tasks? Is it the fault of the Israelis that hamas commits war crimes by building bases, tunnels, and military infrastructure underneath and inside hospitals, schools, residential buildings, and launches unguided rockets indiscriminately at population centers, from population centers, that they take civilian hostages? That they try to prevent their own people from fleeing to cynically use them as human shields as ammunition to be used in the battle for social media sympathy? That they steal fuel from hospital generators for their own use? Would you live with it?
@@samwise1790Victim blaming too? You've got all the hits.
Tell me, if the IDF can't defeat Hamas why do you expect the Palestinian civilians to just turf them out?
@@django3422I mean i get that the IDF shouldn’t be bombing areas in Gaza indiscriminately. They also shouldn’t be invading and pushing people south. However if the IDF cannot target any terrorist infrastructure due to the slightest chance of there being any civilian casualties then you’re basically telling them to sit back and wait for another October 7th.
It is undeniable that Hamas has intentionally intertwined itself with the civilian population. The density of Gaza has obviously already significantly increased the rate at which casualties occur.
My point though is that basically the only way that the IDF can engage with Hamas from what I’ve seen from the pro-Palestinian side is with whatever the Israeli equivalent of Navy Seal Team 6 is(if they’re not outright anti-Semitic enough to support Hamas outright). Because apparently anything that’s less concentrated and high skill than that is simply unacceptable in war which is entirely unfair to Israel. Hamas keeps on firing rockets and committing their own war crimes against both their own people and Israel which are only stopped by the technology difference between the two sides and people expect Israel to only engage in the most restrained manner possible.
@@karmaascendant3936 Your attempt to boil the choice down to "kill civilians or do nothing" is weak and holds no water.
@@karmaascendant3936 I do find this an oversimplification and a view that pretends like the IDF are honest actors. I'm sorry, but those who think Hamas pose any significant threat to Israel either have no context of the region or they're willfully ignorant. It's like comparing a kid with a stone vs a trained soldier in a tank. And if you don't believe that, ask yourself this:
In the last month we've seen an IDF that has enough intelligence and real time information to destroy tunnels buried beneath refugee camps, command centres hidden within schools and hospitals, and even kill a Hamas terrorist being treated in an ambulance, yet on October 7 2,000 Hamas terrorists managed to gather in Gaza, PARAGLIDE over the wall with some of the most advanced detection technology in the world running it -- and let's be clear, paragliding is something that takes a fair number of minutes where you are visible in the air, 2,000 people! -- and then it takes the IDF over six hours to respond before they even know what's happening.
There's only two believable conclusions you can come to if you consider those facts:
Either A) The IDF allowed the attack on October 7 to go ahead, and considering we know Egypt warned Israel of something coming at least 2 days before, that should be a serious consideration
Or B) The IDF aren't targetting Hamas operations at all, but are just using Hamas as the excuse to target Palestinian civilian structure because their goal is to mass murder Palestinians and has nothing to do with Hamas at all.
And the sad reality is, there is a very, very high chance that both those statements are true. And honestly, it's quite surprising that there are still people out there defending Israel's actions in light of the countless interviews with Israeli politicians or political representatives who, quite frankly, do themselves no favours in appearing completely unhinged if they get even a breath of pushback on their actions.
Does this muppet know who the occupier is?
Of course, it's the Gazan's who are occupying Israeli land.
Interesting, but what a soft interview. Is Oli looking for a job at the Jewish Chronicle?
Showed the same respect for Corbyn
That's a fair point, but I don't think Corbyn made so many questionable statements that should have been challenged.
@@nicholasbethell2921 he hides it better these days
Surprised you invited this man on. If he had said about Judaism, what he said about Islam, you most certainly would not.
The situation of religious Muslims in France is EXACTLY the same of Jews all the 19th and early 20th century . I think part of those supporters of Israel do so because they hate Muslims and Arabs , I've witnessed that up close
Interesting to note that it is quite impossible to say about modern Judaism or Christianity, what he said about Islam. Food for thought.
@@samwise1790 I suggest you read the Talmud/Torah etc. Remember Bibi's Amelek commentary?
@@_covfefe and yet, when was the last time there was a crusade? A holy war? Crucifixion of enemies of Judaism or Christianity? Beheadings? Suicide bombings? Executions of heretics, apostates, atheists? Religiously justified sex slavery? And on and on. I reject entirely that there is any moral equivocation between Islam and Christianity/judaism, and I'm an avowed atheist.
Don't make a false equivalance between Judaism and Islam. There is no concept of Jihad, which is what he is talking about, not Islam, in Judaism. There simply isnt a cognate. You're generalising what he's saying.
Special pleading for Israeli exceptionalism time again is it?
I just learned from Jake Wallis Simons that two wrongs do make a right. So I have been in error all these years. This is great news I can now wreak any revenge I want on anyone I can reach. And almost no challenge from Oli.
Great now previously descent channels are giving even more air time to the antisemism smear against socialist. This guy and his newspaper have worked tirelessly for years to prevent any progressive change in UK. Given an unchallenged platform. Shame on you all.
A lot of words which boil down to "the ends justify the means, even when the means are killing people and those people mostly civilians".
Look at his face and body language, blushing at explaining that tweet. He’s a liar.
A sum bag is what he is, if I meet him I will show him what a woke is and it wont be pretty.
How very virtuous of you ! Calling him a liar - do you profess to be one of those so called "body language" experts?
@@joanhendry5749the tweet was screenshotted and shared, he is lying through his teeth.
@@joanhendry5749 I’ve got eyes mate
Interesting how you seem to platform Pro Israeli voices more so than Palestinian ones. Glad there is Novara Media.
Yes. Thank goodness Novara Media are around to whole heartedly support the pro-palestine protests... and to express purely hypothetical but extremely reluctant "professional curiosity" for Israeli vigils held for the UK hostages when asked if Bastani would show the same interest in them.
Such lovely people. They really have their priorities in order; palestine>hamas>israel>UK.
I di not realise Joe Poltics did this, this vame up via the you tube rot, I have subscribed in the past though. I watch Novara in preference but this was in my face. I refused to watch it as I suspected the Isreali a scum bag and from the comments..good choice. Thanks.
Unlike Novara Media, which is viewer funded, JOE was rescued from financial collapse by a company called Greencastle Capital, whose chief holds appointments with other companies including advising on oil exploitation in Africa.
If you're interested in a leftist project, Novara's journalism is built upon foundations in greater alignment with their cause.
Novara seem to have much better takes on this issue
@@briancrowther3272lol so your position is: I won’t listen to anyone who doesn’t 100% agree with my views - like a typical red fascist
I was quite disappointed with Oli's apparent inability to provide pushback to some of these arguments.
I understand and appreciate that he made great attempts to be empathetic and decent, but I'm dismayed at the number of the unhinged talking points Simons was able to just state unopposed.
Why? Personally, I welcome the fact that guests are given a chance to give their arguments in full, even if I don't always agree with them.
@@ftumschk I agree with you certainly. It's important to hear people out and I do appreciate that the guests are given the breathing room to voice their opinions in a non-hostile environment. I do however also think it's important to follow up those complete arguments with an equally complete counterpoint.
@@yesno9374 That's what I'd expect in a debate or cross-examination, for sure, but I think Oli's style works well. God knows, there are plenty of channels catering for the more confrontational kind of interview, so I welcome this alternative approach.
@@ftumschkAs a journalist, you should be in pursuit of truth. If you're interviewing someone you believe to be lying or twisting that truth then you really should call that out.
@@django3422 It's also a legitimate journalistic technique to allow the interviewee to set out THEIR "truth" in full, and the fuller the better. That way, we get a more comprehensive picture of what their stance really is. If, say, Owen Jones had conducted this interview, half of the air-time would have been taken up by the _interviewer_ giving their well-known version of THEIR "truth", and we'd have learned a whole lot less.
Interviews can benefit from being more Socratic than didactic, and that is what Oli did here. Consequently, I got to know more about where the _interviewee_ was coming from than I would otherwise, even if I didn't agree with him.
Great book is The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine by Ilam Pappe.
This was infuriating - shame on you Ollie for not pushing back on his purposefully inflammatory statements
His view of the situation is as myopic as that of the other side.
People like him, on both sides, will drive this brutal cycle of violence onwards forever.
Very interesting interview. It reminds me of a BBC HardTalk interview with an Israeli spokesperson in the 1990's, as actually hearing him presenting his warped fascist view of the world and what kind of racist atrocities he gladly justified, changed my previously pro-Israeli stance to a more critical.
"...as far as I know Israel is doing it's best to follow the rules of law..." The lack of push back on so many elements of what Jake Wallis said in this interview was surprising and deeply disappointing. And how dare he suggest those on the left are sympathizers and enablers of Jihadis. Most of us abhor Jihadism and state violence with equal passion, and instead wish to see resolution based on dialogue, humanitarianism, and co-existence.
He lost me at Dresden. PoliticsJoe may have lost me for letting him go unchallenged at that point.
Biden had at least warned Israel not to repeat their mistakes made in 'The War On Terror.'
Jake seems to be saying Israel should be allowed to knowingly do the same.
Biden knows that the US also did so knowingly.
Terrible interview. So much could have been challenged. Why is the media not giving a voice to the thousands of Uk Jews who are marching, demanding a ceasefire, negotiated agreements and the end to occupation. If these marches were violent the police would have grounds to ban. The majority of those marching are calling for peace and justice.
What he says at 11:30 is so insane it's actually baffling. No, bombing civilians is never just, Israel doesn't have the right to wage war on whoever it deems is deserving. It's not the mature position, it's not reasonable, and worst of all it's not defensible.
If you think Israel's actions can be justified by "tragic necessity," it follows that Hamas' actions can be too. So it should be all the more obvious neither is justifiable.
The Hamas attack did not give Israel the right to bomb Gaza to the ground. It doesn't matter how heinous those attacks were, that doesn't ever mean civilians deserve to die. The fact it's happened in the past doesn't justify it now, because it was evil then.
I don't get a free pass to kill everyone I deem responsible for harming me.
How he can just sit there and so coldly accept that "the means justify the ends" is appalling. He is no different from the leaders of Hamas. Evil.
War was waged, and they are now entitled to defend themselves. These are the realities of the world we live in
@@ads13924Which means that Palestinians should defend themselves and respond with an attack whether through Hamas or another Intifada...or do you suggest that Palestinians should always accept getting killed and displaced with no right of defence whatsoever?
Before Oct the 7th, this year, hundreds of Palestinian in the west bank, including children, were shot dead! There is no Hamas there! Shouldn't they defend themselves, or what solution do you exactly suggest?
Regardless, do you see this vicious cycle of aggression? Why do you think that is?
The cognitive dissonance is insane! The UN and other Human Rights experts have clearly said Israel is breaking international law, they are in breach of The Geneva protocols.
@@ads13924the right to defend does not extend to occupiers.
I refuse to watch him. My bet is he does not put it the context of genocide by Isreal over the last 75 yrs against a helpless victim, the Palestinains. This is just an excuse for more colonial expansion, the Zionist project. Thanks, I agree.
Some points raised by JWS went so insufficiently challenged, that they were essentially calling the night day and the day night, so much so that it undermined the point have having a second person in the video - just let the guy sit in front of the camera for 40 mins giving token concessions to the barbarity being carried out on innocent civilians by the Israeli government and pouring all the scorn on the barbarity being carried out by Hamas. Both are truly awful, but this video was basically 40 mins of unchalleneged "gaza isnt and hasn't been an open air prison for years" which is just poor journalism. Don't get me wrong, I support the show and the work the team does, but this was a miss. It happens, but it wont change my core opinion of guys.
Just read the introduction to his Israelophobia book there on Google Books. He makes all the usual points about atrocities in Syria never generating the same level of protest - he says all over the world but only seems concerned about specifics in the UK and USA. Doesn’t mention money and arms though, funny that.
Thi si is a silly argument by him and others. The Uk govermewnt does not provide military support and political support to the state of Syria, the Uk goverment does provide these things to Israel. Therfore it's not an analageous comparision. People protest in the Uk againts the UKs facilitation of Isralis war crimes.
@@Cronhouran interesting way to explain your feigned outrage
@@ads13924 that's not a refutation of my argument, which is logical in the face of his false analogy.
@@Cronhour what war crimes has Israel committed in this war, specifically? I'd advise you actually read what international law says about it, rather than what you feel constitutes a war crime. Hint: bombing a hospital when the hospital is used for hostile purposes, is not a war crime: precisely the opposite is true. Also, civilian casualties while striking a legitimate military target is also not a war crime (it is not good, and tragic, but not a war crime); specifically targeting civilians IS a war crime, but good luck finding evidence of that which isnt a 'trust me bro' from Hamas, a terrorist organization, which has already lied about things like the hospital attack which turned out to be their own failed rocket.
@@samwise1790 even if you want to abjectly deny the bombing of the hospitals and refugee camps as not being war crimes, collective punishment in the way that Palestinians in the Gaza Strip are being denied most of their food, water, and electricity is a war crime. I'll even give you leeway on that if you really want to deny that it constitutes a war crime. Many sources have documented Israeli forces having used White Phosphorus in their bombing of the Gaza Strip. The use of White Phosphorus is categorically deemed a war crime. No ifs, ands, or buts about it. So even with all the extremely generous leeway given, Israel are committing war crimes and should be compelled to stop.
For what it's worth, I don't agree with any of the justifications that Israel has used for their bombing of civilian targets like hospitals, refugee camps, bakeries, or schools. IDF constantly lies again and again. There are so many occasions to be drawn upon for their lies but the one that is arguably most recent that wasn't marred by the fog of war is the murder of Shireen Abu-Akleh. I'll go into details of that if you request me to but no sane people should come away from that thinking the IDF are in any way trustworthy when it comes to their strikes.
Edit: missed the part about you saying it was categorically a Hamas misfired rocket. I suppose you believe the audio tape to be definitive proof, despite many experts debunking that. Some experts have also stated that the explosion caught by footage would not track with the smaller munition size that Hamas has. That also disregards Israel having threatened to bomb the hospital days before. The distrust of Palestinian death toll after that bombing was due to a misunderstanding by Al Jazeera news in the immediate aftermath, where they mistook a doctor at the hospital as saying 500 victims were killed, as opposed to 500 victims injured by that bomb. The death numbers from Hamas's health ministries have always historically been considered reliable unlike IDF narratives that have often been misleading at best, outright falsified at worst.
I simply could not watch past 15 minutes and sit through his lies and misleading arguments while Olly is there agreeing and not pushing back.
Now imagine how this would have gone if LowKey was doing the interviewing. That guy would fall apart and walk out.
Funny and so true 😊
Only made it through 4mins !!🇵🇸
@@otpflynn5848 Too long
@@LCOFlowkey😂😂😂😂
Sorry, but those arguments about what "we" did in World War 2 and Iraq are weak as fuck. It's whataboutery. The things "we" did were horrific, but does that make what Israel's government is doing right now correct or proportionate?
It also seems that he's implying there were no protests against the Iraq War or acts that took place during it, which is just faftually wrong.
And shit, he's just said there's no occupation in Gaza. Christ.
Oh no, he is saying you could argue it's an occupation but most people who are anti Zionist actually think the whole of Palestine is occupied. Source: trust me bro
And now he's off on some metaphorical tangent about abortion and complaining about the UK and US again.
I cant watch this further. It's not a "double standard" to think that Israel is committing an atrocity right now, just because the UK has a dreadful foreign policy record - i think those things are bad as well! Both things can be true!
There isn't an occupation in Gaza 😅 oh god,
The double standard he's referring to is the ability to hold Israel to account rather than the UK to account - he is describing a power dynamic whereby it is much easier to hold Israel to account, and the steepness of that curve is accellerated by anti-semitism. That's his argument.
It’s an apartheid state why didn’t you question him on that considering every human rights organisation states that and also about Ben Gavir
Every one? You sure about that?
The jewish Chronicle is famous for it's lack of standards and has breached IPSo guidelines a shocking number of times. Besided presiding over a famously partisan and inaccurate paper of abuse he also wrote racist meassages on Twitter then lied about it on National television when on Question time. He is a bad faith actor and should not be taken seriously.
I normally find JOE's on site reporting insightful but some of their recent studio stuff is woeful.
You can do better than this.
They did a Corbyn interview as well if you don't won't balance watch Owen Jones or Novora or on the other side GB News. I don't want an echo chamber.
@@chdolan3530 Centrism is the death of debate. And the "two sides are equal arguement" is a dangerous falacy that enables more divisive views more air time than they otherwise should have.
This man is clearly a partisan and the interviewer barely pushed his talking points. This is NOT balanced journalism.
@@adammitxhell2932 Disagree completely partisanship has destroyed debate in that you can't accept that the other side might be right.
@@chdolan3530 Belive whatever you want, I don't care. Just know that fascism thrives on people viewing their rhetoric through an uncritical lens.
@@adammitxhell2932 Most of us have our own uncritical lenses, and we don't always need gobby RUclipsrs to tell us how to think. There's certainly room for interviews where guests are allowed to elaborate their argument, and the audience can draw their own conclusions. I much prefer this interviewing style than that in which the interviewer is hell bent on getting _their_ views across by scoring undergraduate-level political points.
why are you giving this ringpiece air?
12:00 yes lets just ignore the geneva convention, without understanding that the reason it exists was because of events like that. Civis can just get fucked.
Are you actually going to bring up the reason this is happening the brutality of Israel since 1948 im shocked you are giving him a free unchallenged platform
Looks like he has an unchallenged opportunity to spout rubbish.
Much prefer this type of journalism, that allows people to express their opinions in full, rather than combatative narrativising echo chambers - not all platforms are for being challenged - some are for being listened to. And you should listen to views you dont agree with, interrogate why you dont agree with them, and then you yourself will have a more robust opinion.
@@Solid_Soup yes but we get this Zionist view all the time on mainstream media
I'm fucking sick of people comparing Dresden to Gaza. The Geneva Convention was drawn up to stop repeating history!
these comments bout to be popcorn material
No dead or harmed friends or family? What, unlike the vast majority of British Palestinians?
JWS is so pro-Israel thar he lives in Britain. He reminds me of expatriates who live in Spain, don't learn Spanish and don't unerstand the locals
Could the same about any person who shows support for their indigenous homeland. Am I to assume you take issue with Indian or Pakistani Brits being pro the country of their heritage ?
Afaiu the wife of the SNP leader has only rarely been allowed in the country Gaza to see her dr brother & he isn’t allowed much/ any travel out. I think that is what meant by it being a prison.
I cant watch anymore, goodnight .. .. ..
I take severe issue with the sledgehammer and ham fisted idea that the more left you are, the more you support Jihadis. By the same logic, the more right leaning you are, the more you support Nazis, which whilst seemingly plausible in the simpletons populist mind, it disgustingly ignores the context and nuance that is peoples political beliefs to fit his own profound belief and desperate need of being right. The idea that it's one or the other and not a spectrum is where this, i suspect knowingly pig headed view comes from
Don’t use pig in an analogy for a Jewish or Muslim person please.
The support he then explained, if you'd listened, was that there is an anti-capitalist, anti-western, anti-imperailist strain within the left that dovetails with Jihadism because of its complete adherence to ideology, rather than reality; using that ideology to shape their reality first. The difference is in the concept of a utopia that these political positions wish to create. That's what he's saying.
People are not supporting Hamas they support PALESTINE🇵🇸 #freepalestine
So Zionism therefore = ?
= Jesus will come back 😂
Absolute nonsense.
Really? Lets say one of your relatives was killed in the bombing the IRA carried out in say Warrington? Would you be supportive of the IRA if you were in that position?
Dresden line, every Isreali governement official has spouted that out. Do they not have any new lines. You would be hard pushed to find anyone that would consider most of WW1 and WW2 actions no to be war crimes. The whole point is never again is not using a Countries past war crimes as hall pass for yours.
Really? Platforming this islsmophobe? Very disappointed
disappointing interview you didn't hold him to account for many of his half truths and lies
Pro racist you mean why would have him on the show to spread his vile crap .. he had to apologise on bbc question time about his comments didn’t hear you mention that or confronted him about his comments ..
I agree with the analogy of Israel was born 75 years ago. No one in their right mind should accept killing a 75 year old. But that 75 year old needs to stop being greedy and wanting to benefit from oppressing their neighbour and grabbing things they do not own. It is time for that 75 year old to accept the legal boundries and borders of their ownership and to stop citing 3000 year old scripture. This is not civlised, nor secular, nor 'western' ideals.
The more right wing you are the closer you are too... well all manner of horrors
The more right wing you are the closer you are to becoming aware of the hate that is created by the deluded left
@@stujujitwingfut5192 we have a right wing government actively sowing hate. Can you explain what you mean? I would like to understand.
This is the problem, everyone who has a opinion that you don't agree with you label them the usual name calling to shut the conversation down, when in reality the left are the real fascists, the government are not right wing they are told what to do to cause division, you might not like it but you and I are both the same
@@stujujitwingfut5192 This is literally what you're doing!
I've tried to engage you in discussion and you're shutting it down, name calling and labelling"fascist."
@@stujujitwingfut5192 I know. Everything we are told is actually the opposite. People who believe in social democracy are the real fascists. Indiscriminate bombing of civilians is the right to self defense. Matching for an armistice on armistice day is hate etc. etc.
this man has been given a platform to say '' ocupation, whatever that is, it's not occupied''... and you have sat and listened to him lie. i'm unsubscribing i cannot listen.
This is an awful set of takes. Poor from Politics Joe having hate mongers on.
JC would even call Netanyahu "My friend".
It is, and always has, used that in all his dealings over the years.
Please don't interpret the phrase out of context.
Is their an instance of him doing this (or any Israeli PM) ?
@SK-ei4cm It is JC's common greeting. He would use it for Labour or Conservative. Has he ever met Netanyahu? He is a concillatory character, met Arafat, and many other leaders. He brokered peace in Northern Ireland long before Blair got involved. Those critics never understood his stances nor his efforts. Definitely not anti-semitic but anti-Zionist as are many Jews.
@@alanmansell4297 you say he’s conciliatory yet he only meets one side ?? How many Israeli leaders has he met ?
Also what peace did Corbyn broker in NI? He solely met republicans and was an ardent supporter of republicanism in NI.
@@alanmansell4297 also you say it’s his common greeting ? How come he never referred to his politics opponents by that moniker yet was content to use it for those who advocate the extermination of the Jews
@@SK-ei4cmCasting doubt from a place of complete ignorance is a pretty weak move.
Unsubbed, this was beyond the pale.
Omg is this real the Palestinians do not have tanks ,or planes or the most up to date military hardware
Neither did the IRA, yet if one of your relatives had been killed in lets say the Warrington bombing, perhaps you're a relative of 3yr old Jonathon Ball who sadly lost his life courtesy of the IRA? What would your reaction be? Would you go all kumbaya? Or would you think the IRA needed taking care of by whatever means necessary?
@markmaher4548 I was hilighting his reasons for this genocide as being the same as the war between Germany and the UK , and how did the fighting stop between the IRA and the UK come about it wasn't the British dropping huge bombs on hospitals, schools and church's
@@markmaher4548 but the northen ireland conflict ended through negotiated peace and the end of British occupation. we didn't kill 10000 of them in a couple of weeks and flatten half of Dublin in the 80s did we? IF you want to end terrorism then you need to adress the cause of Terrorism, which is predominatly occupation. Btw I grew up near warrington, went there every weekend and was near the Arndale centre when that went off. Your argument is one supporting the murder of Kids
Ha my comment was deleted.
Censorship at its finest 👌
Oh!! Let me cancel my left wing membership and join the Tory party as a matter of urgency!! What right-wing nonsense is this now? 😐
Paragraph 139 of the international court of justice advisory opinion on the legality of the wall dated 2004 makes it clear that Israel does not have the right of self defence under article 51 of the UN charter in relation to attacks that emanate from within g occupied territory that it controls. Gaza is occupied territory.
“The Court recalls that Annex I to the report of the Secretary-General states, however, that, according to Israel: "the construction of the Barrier is consistent with Article 51 of the Charter of the United Nations, its inherent right to self-defence and Security Council resolutions 1368 (2001) and 1373 (2001)".
Article 51 of the Charter, the Court notes, recognizes the existence of an inherent right of self-defence in the case of armed attack by one State against another State. However, Israel does not claim that the attacks against it are imputable to a foreign State. The Court also notes that Israel exercises control in the Occupied Palestinian Territory and that, as Israel itself states, the threat which it regards as justifying the construction of the wall originates within, and not outside, that territory.
The situation is thus different from that contemplated by Security Council
resolutions 1368 (2001) and 1373 (2001), and therefore Israel could not in any event invoke those resolutions in support of its claim to be exercising a right of self-defence. Consequently, the Court concludes that Article 51 of the Charter has no relevance in this case.
The Court considers further whether Israel could rely on a state of necessity which would preclude the wrongfulness of the construction of the wall. In this regard, citing its decision in the case concerning the Gabcikovo-Nagymaros Project (Hungary/Slovakia), it observes that the state of necessity is a ground recognized by customary international law that "can only be invoked under certain strictly defined conditions which must be cumulatively satisfied" (L.C.J. Reports 1997,
p. 40, para. 51), one of those conditions being that the act at issue be the only way for the State to guard an essential interest against a grave and imminent peril. In the light of the material before it, the Court is not convinced that the construction of the wall along the route chosen was the only means to safeguard the interests of Israel against the peril which it has invoked as justification for that construction. While Israel has the right, and indeed the duty to respond to the numerous and deadly acts of violence directed against its civilian population, in order to protect the life of its citizens, the measures taken are bound to remain in conformity with applicable international law.
Israel cannot rely on a right of self-defence or on a state of necessity in order to preclude the wrongfulness of the construction of the wall. The Court accordingly finds that the construction of the wall, and its associated régime, are contrary to international law.”
Israel haven’t occupied Gaza since 2005 so that’s irrelevant now
@@SK-ei4cmGaza is still considered occupied territory by the UN as Israel controls its borders and skies. It’s is not sovereign by any measure.
These people do exactly the same that they complain about
He said ‘woke’ I instantly disagree with his message
cant lie you guys are moving kind of mad right now.
this is outrageous - goodbye politics joe
Why? Its important to listen to this man's views, including his bigotry. Even if you disagree with it. It's how you don't end up in an echo chamber.
i agree - it's the lack of real challenge that i found unacceptable @@mwd331
@@mwd331 because the easy ride they gave this guy compared to their treatment of pro-Palestinian guests belies either a pro-Apartheid bias, or cowardice when it comes time to speak truth to power.
Either deserves an unsubscribe.
Ok bye
Why is YT's automoderation software for Comments so bad_glitchy!!!
Great idea to invite him.
Lost opportunity though to have a real discussion.
They more or less let him pontificate unopposed.
PJoe just lost a lot of impact on me.
I admire your interview. The way he squirmed when he couldn't fall back on antisemitism was absolutely beautiful. The subtext says it all.
If Israel wants to stop the hate, they could start by listening to the many Jewish people, including those that are actual victims of the holocaust, and start working toward peace. Acknowledging their neighbors as equal would be a good start.
How is "from the river to the sea, Palestine will be free" regarded as anti-semitic, but its OK for Netanyahu to say "“Between the sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty.” (founding charter for the Likud party).
Dipsh1t Likud adopted the genocidal PLO slogan in their charter which they got rid off. No one is going to pretend it’s ok for that to be said buddy - just admit it’s a genocidal chant whoever uses it.
You guys fell off so, so hard trying to cover this situation when it's so obviously beyond your comfort zone. Are you going to have a hardline ani-Israel Islamist on too? If not, wtf is the point of this show discussing issues beyond Andrew Marr Westminster sh**? No real moral voice and no 'balance' - worst of both worlds.
"Israelophobia"? I see we're just making things up now. What next? Fascistophobia? Apartheidophobia?
OK. Let's say for a second that instead of Jewish people, this military action against Palestinians was being caried out by country of Jamaicans or Māori.
Is the contention that the woke Palestinian protestors wouldn't be as critical? That's there is some uniquely Jewish aspect of this ethnic cleansing that we wokies are criticising?
What a load of bollocks.
The ethnic cleansing in the middle east is the one of the Jewish people from every country in the middle east. That is a fact that is based in reality.
You're imagining a contrived example that is divorced from any sense of reality to prove a logical point that also doesn't make sense. Yes, there is an anti-semitic element to anti-israel, pro-palestine support, and you'd be a fool to ignore it - the very ignorance of the alliance the hard left blindly make, that he's also claiming. There is a much steeper curve to criticism of Israel than there is criticism of any western nation. Why do you think this is?
Yup - you weren’t as critical for the Tibetans, Uyghurs or Yemenis. Where were the outrage marches for Darfur - didn’t exist. No left media outlet is covering the ethnic cleansing of 1.7million Afghans occurring right now. You’re right you’re a load of bollocks mate.
@@artnull13 my government is helping to fund those.
@@DavidHeffron78 oh so you’re Pakistani- good for you
Overall very interesting interview, and good to air the thought out opinions of someone with a differing standpoint who is still clearly compassionate. A bit more pushback would have been welcome, in particular to the tacit suggestion that atrocities in Dresden, Afghanistan, Iraq, and lack of popular protest against Uighur imprisonment means that protesting the war is misguided and somehow an expression of support for hamas.
Havent watched it but you have saved my time as this is what I suspected .... he a scum bag criminal sitting in a suit in a nice office defending the indefencible, genocide of the Palestinainas by the Israelis, just like the Nazis did to the Jews....a scum bag.
Clearly compassionate? Dafuq? 😂
Disappointed at the lack of pushback in this. I get you're interviewing and don't agree with him but its a bit much this.
Thank you for allowing the other side to explain their perspective; you have restored my faith in alternative left media.
Love that Joe are covering all sides of this. Top journalism. Might not agree with it but it's good to hear different views.
I've never heard of soo much Islamaphobic and Isreali talking points for this "journalist"
My big concern about these protests which make me feel like they are being coordinated is the fact no one protests china’s actual genocide against the Uighurs in Xinjiang or against Azerbaijan for its ethnic cleansing of Armenians recently.
Not justifying anything and Israel needs to pull out and come up with a real plan while Hamas also need to be punished for its crimes. I don’t know how and I’m glad me and you reading this aren’t making those decisions
Does the Uk goverment provide military and political support to either if the states carrying these out? It's not an analageous situation. IF the UK goverment facilitated either of these acts then protest against the UK state would be valid. The UK state does facilitate Israels war crimes and genocide,. It does this though Military support, it does this through finacial support, and it does this through political coverage. Your argument is naive or dishonest. I'm hoping it's the first one.
Well the UK government does support the Azeri state through purchasing its oil and gas from Baku. This is then invested into the Azeri military which has committed these crimes. I don’t know how much but Baku was one of the places which benefits most from western nations purchasing their oil and gas. China is china hit you could argue the neoliberal western investment of China has provided them the resources to commit this act. I know Uighur Muslims and they told me what’s happening in xinjiang and it’s so sad. Highly recommend watched a vice documentary on it if you have the chance!
@@Cronhourinteresting excuse for you lack of any interest in these atrocities. Noone is buying it though
@@EarlofSalop none of this is analogous of the UKs military and political support for the state of Israel.
@@ads13924 I think all genocide and ethics clensing is abhorrent. However I'm not a Chinese or Azerbaijan citizen and unless I'm mistake we don't provide military, financial or political support to either action. Infact our government has openly criticized China.
You pretending this is an analogous situation is dishonest. The fact that you do it to support warcrimes is abhorrent.
You do you. (As you should be free to do)
At first I was kind of annoyed at Oli. He could have easily left, gone to the fridge and got a beer, come back, go on his phone for a bit and taken a nap. It would have had a greater impact on the trajectory of the conversation than just nodding along and every now and again going: "That's so thought provoking! Tell us more about how the left are privileged idiot jihadis." But then I realised the more you let this guy speak the more he is at ease to express his actual opinions. And then you have a far more accurate picture of his politics.
Exactly. Couldn't agree more.
15000 American Jews stood for Palestine so this narrative is not going to stick 😂
I'm all for "hearing from the other side" and "speaking to people you disagree with" but what was the purpose of this and why was this such a grovelling interview???
Clearly they are aware of the nuance. The complexity. And thank god. The country has gone terrorist supporting crazy
The grovelling is obscene - lacklustre interviewing...