The thing that always got me is that they never recorded a goodbye message. In a lot of cases of people missing for quite some time with recording devices they record something. I would think at least one of them would have recorded or even written it in a text so if the worst happened and they weren’t found there would be something to their families. But, these girls didn't do that. That leads me to believe they weren't able to.Just this one point by itself makes me think foul play and then when you add in all the other things it’s so suspicious that something bad happened.
Missy Bevers, Liz Barraza, Karlie Guse, The Springfield 3, Brianna Maitland, Brian Shaffer, Daniel Robinson, Jelani Day, Lars Mittank, Summer Wells, , Asha Degree are just a few of my all time weirdest cases.
I love Mysteriously Mysterious! I can't help but think of how frightened and panicked these young women must have felt and that is heartbreaking.. i hope the mystery of what happened to them is solved.
I feel a little conflicted about reviewing cases. I'd like to figure it out, but I also feel bad because it involves knowing how they were feeling. So I question what it means about myself that I explore the mystery.
This case has always bothered me. Not so much that I think foul play was involved, but mostly just knowing how horrible this was for them. It's so hard to really apply logic to scenarios like this adequately. I know we like to assign a third party to senseless deaths to try to add some sense to them. It's horrible to think of the fear they would have felt. No one ever wants to assign blame to victims, it hurts the heart too much to think they could be the very figures that caused their own demise. If I were to guess, though, about the night photos by that time, they would have been paranoid and on the edge of delirium. The photos at night may be out of fear of predators. Real or imagined. Of course, like anyone else, all I can do is guess. If you are going to go hiking in your own backyard and especially in foreign areas, don't treat it lightly. Plan as if you are absolutely going to make a mistake and get lost, but try your best not to. I just don't know what to think here. RIP ladies.
2 girls going alone to well anywhere long term hiking trips 3rd world nations etc. is bloody insane let alone white girls in non white countries, what a shame on there fathers, no I'm not victim blaming here, in addition to this very dangerous false "empowerment" ignorant mindset/mentality increasingly activists courts and da's no longer executing convicted pedos rapists and murderer's anymore like ever simply adds to this disastrous combo, a dang avoidable tragic shame all around. Now I get 99 percent of people will think what i said is despicable, but what's more important acknowledging the truth and reality or virtue signaling? I dont want this to happen to innocent women and so I will tell the truth on this and to them bottom line ya know.
In one of the pictures, of the "SOS marker", it clearly captures the gray unpadded strap of a backpack that wasn't theirs. Theirs was black and padded.
it does. it's a picture of them at the caldera hot springs during the time when they were supposed to be missing in the jungle. the guys they're with were the ones that abducted them.
I see this crime briefly has big purpose and days gonna prove that if it's escalated , it's an organised organ trafficking crime and kriss kremers and lissane froon have faced many creepy things by different people
You'd think if someone was sophisticated enough to permanently remove an image and possibly manipulate meta data, they'd rename the files to not leave a gap.
They would still be taking a huge chance leaving the camera for forensic experts to work on, But they did so the photo likely neven contained evidence against them, if it even once existed.
@@seancidy6008 idk if the picture had the guys on it. Could've just been a pic of the girls. Either way, keeping the stuff intact allows them to perpetuate the "missing in the jungle" narrative. Which is exactly why Panamanian officials had to delete that picture and doctor/rearrange others to try to give that narrative more credence
I might be confused in the timeline, but that photo of strawberry blonde hair - - anybody else notice how clean that hair looks? Does not look like the hair of somebody who'd been wandering around in the jungle for a week. It's not greasy or sweaty or dirty in the least. Yeah, the deletion of photo #508 really does keep people from being satisfied with any of the official rulings. Great job on this case!
I don’t think that those girls had died in that forest. I think that their bones were putted there so people think that the last place they were was there. As a south american woman I probably wash my hair one day yes and another day no or when is too hot its humid the scalp stay oily and moist. I can wake up everyday at 06:00 wash my hair even if I don’t go at the beach, and stay at the A.C because of humidity it electrifies at afternoon or at the end of the day. I saw the photo with only her hair and Belive it or not but if those girls had been on that trail (which I doubt they were) even if for 2 to 3 hours her hair would not be clean and loose.
It always struck me wrong that neither girl wrote any memo on their phones. Both had kept a diary that they wrote everyday, so why didn't they write? 🤷♂️
In the end, I think they let themselves be trapped by the arrival of night. After photo 508, I think Lisanne dropped her camera on the ground or in the water. Making it unusable. Despite everything, they continued a little on the trail and at one point they decided to go back but they saw that the light was dropping very quickly in certain portions since we are in the tropics and the sun rises at 6:00 in the morning and goes to bed at 6:00 p.m. all year round. They are therefore on their way back but they realize that they need at least two or three hours of walking and a large part of this walk will have to take place at night. They worry because they know the places they have already passed and know that without a flashlight, in the dark of night, it is very difficult and distressing. That’s when they try to call for help, if only to say where they are because they didn’t tell anyone in the end. They just said they were going for a walk. But impossible to contact anyone: no network. At that moment, they were not injured, nor pursued by anyone, just anxious at the idea of returning at night. The wisest thing would have been to land somewhere in open ground and resolve to spend the night there and leave the next morning at first light. In a video, the mother of Kriss who came on the trail explains that she is absolutely sure that if one of the girls had been injured, they would have stayed on the trail and waited. The problem actually is that he There was no injury or other, only from being trapped by the time and the arrival of night, and also from not having warned anyone. I think that by trying to retrace the path at night, she had a high chance of getting lost, falling, slipping, etc. Which at night reinforces the seriousness of the situation. So they get lost. And the second catastrophe arrives, no one knows where they went or more precisely, no one knows that they continued beyond the Mirador, towards the North on the path. So by the time we organize the research, a lot of time will pass. And we will have to wait until April 6 for research to be done on the other side of the Mirador. That is to say that the girls got lost, that they continued to move during these 6 days, if only to try to find a place with a little network. And obviously in 6 days, without food or very little (?), without water except that of the river (risk of diarrhea that one of the girls already had not long before during the stay), without being able to make a fire. Fear, anxiety, stress, exhaustion...etc. When the search begins beyond the Mirador, the girls are already in a bad state in my opinion. On April 8, they have been in the jungle for 7 days! It is said that you can survive 3 minutes without breathing, 3 days without drinking and 3 weeks without eating. I think they were in the state of people who go on hunger strike. They must have remained in bed, half lucid. One may be more affected than the other. On the night of April 8, they heard noise, perhaps light signals in the sky or something else coming from the search teams. I think Lisanne understands that you have to try something to stand out. They are obviously in no condition to scream or anything. So she takes out the camera which she had put to dry and which she had not tried to get it working again since. And it works again. This is possible if the device fell into water and was quickly removed from the water. In time he can works again. So she decides to use it to make flash shots towards the sky. Obviously it takes photos at the same time but the goal is the flash. She is exhausted and at the same time held by the hope of being seen. She awkwardly directs the flash towards the ground a few times which causes her to accidentally take a photo of Kriss' hair who is probably lying sleepy next to her or her head on Lisanne's legs. But it doesn't work, the noises and signals go away. The only hope for days has vanished. We didn't see them. I think they end up dying of exhaustion and hunger. Not necessarily at the same time. Subsequently, the rainy season set in, causing rivers to swell and causing flooding. Their bodies were carried away by the waves, disintegrating as they decomposed.... RQ / *Contrary to what has often been said, the bag was dirty and damp when they found it. The items they contained were also damp and the devices were unusable. The Dutch experts had difficulty using them; it was easier with SD cards. *The fact that the young women took off their bras appears normal considering the conditions in which they were (heat, humidity, etc.). *The shorts again were not found dry and folded neatly on a stone. It was dirty, wet and with holes. *There have never been 70 pin code attempts in 1 day as has been said. In fact it was the Dutch experts who determined that since the phone was put into service, there had been 70 unsuccessful pin code attempts. That is to say that since the girl had been using her cell phone, it had happened to her 70 times of making a mistake when typing your code. *There has never been a scrap of human flesh found with bones, which seemed impossible as decomposition would have made it disappear very quickly. In fact this scrap of flesh was analyzed and it was beef.
The four suspicious deaths of the young men directly related to the case in the ensuing days to come - including the taxi driver, the son of Guide F, and the two youg men pictured with Kris and Lisanne at the waterfall - are clear indication that the young women's disappearance was the result of foul play. The fact that each of the four young men's deaths had been ruled "accidental" despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary strongly suggests that authorities were dead set on sweeping the entire ordeal under the rug even to the point of eliminating any future investigations and inquiries into the related subsequent deaths, indicating that authorities were unwilling to risk any chance of someone uncovering damning information that would contradict the nation's offical stance on the women's deaths. A cover-up is further suggested by the death threats and bullying received by the parents of Kris when they attempted to pursue their own investigation with the help of 16 Dutch detectives and 8 scent dogs. The fact that they were ambushed by authorities wielding machetes as they approached the entrance to the trail and threatened to be killed unless they dropped the investigation and accepted the stafe ruling adds to the cerfainty of foul play. The fact that subsequent investigations by amateurs and writers were also met with the same threats indicates that whatever happened to Kris and Lisanne will remain a mystery forever until someone at some point gets drunk and reveals too much to the wrong people - or the right people.
Put the FBI on that! The girls were from Neatherlands. Is that right? FBI works overseas for decades. The govermant of Neatherlands should make an agreement with US govermant about this case. To open for investigation and documentary. I would love that!
I'm thinking a backpack was possibly accidentally left behind at some point. With all those important documents, food, water-they would backtrack & find it.
Personaly i find cases that just get abandonend more shocking than this truly mysterious case. Like for example the case of Brianna Wells,a 17 year old girl from a upper middle class family that was found beaten up and shot dead and then dumped in a trash alley in Tempe a bunch of years ago. Post mortem even the local police participated in character assassination rather than in solving the case. There is no timeline,no motive,no suspects,no nothing. And everybody - except her friends - tryng to forget... Its a perfect example on how you get away with murder. And sadly her case isnt the only one. Usualy those are cases that blib once on the media and then its never heard or seen from again.
Four months ago, the You Tube channel "The Pianistra Puzzle" explained how and why the night pictures came to be. This can be found in their video entitled "Return to the Night Location." They also show four different possible routes taken by the girls after the crossed over the continental divide in their video entitled "What Happened to Kris Kremers and Lisanne Froon?" Between these two videos, almost all of the questions regarding what happened to Kris and Lisanne can be answered. I believe the girls continued on the trail after the summit because they had learned there were waterfalls further on. I believe they took the route entitled "Option 2" in the latter video. I believe they got to the first cable bridge and attempted to cross it. Here, one or both were hurt seriously in the attempt. The injury (or injuries) was great enough to cause the first 112 call. I think the girls limped back to the "second paddock" hoping that the open area of the paddock would aid in an unobstructed signal. Here is where the second unsuccessful emergency call was made. The girls then powered off their phones to save battery and hunkered down for the night. In the morning I believe they headed back up the trail that they had come down, hoping to gain a signal at a higher elevation. At this point I believe they made a mistake that sealed their fate. Instead of going back up the trail the way they had come, they went off onto the trail that branches off to the southeast (this junction is labelled as El Coco on the map.) From there they continued to Rio Mamei. By this point they would have known they had made a wrong turn and they were in fact lost. I believe the girls could hear the search helicopters and knew people were looking for them. Ultimately, I believe they used the camera after moonset to try to create a light beacon hoping that someone, somewhere would see it. After this, I believe Kris passed away. Lisanne took her phone and continued on until she lost her footing and died on the rocks of the Rio Mamei. Finally, both bodies and their possessions were washed downstream during the rainy season. The bodies were shredded by the current and the rocks and Kris's shorts and the back pack came to rest where they did.
With all of my sympathy, respect, grief, and condolences for these young women's loved ones, I would humbly make the following observations and remarks: 1. There are many adventurous people around the world. 2. Especially the social media encourages many people to try something "wild" at least once in a while. 3. Too many people get too excited about adventurous trips abroad without thinking carefully about them. 4. Too many tourists embark on trips abroad without preparing carefully enough for them culturally. 5. Too many tourists visit other countries without knowing any local languages. 6. Too many tourists are unprepared for negative surprises. 7. Too many tourists rely on their good luck. 8. Too many people think only casually about their trips' potential problems. 9. Too many people think only casually about their trips' potential dangers. 10. Too many people want to "copy" or to try out many adventures and other activities which they see or watch on the Internet and/or on the TV. That all being written, R.I.P., dear Kris and Lisanne. May God comfort and bless your many loved ones, friends, acquaintances, and followers! Have a wonderful and blessed spring and summer 2024!
The night time photos, I wonder if someone was trying to draw attention to themselves for rescue or trying to scare a predator away. We may never really know. I can’t imagine what horrible things they encountered. Prayers to the families.
I think the night photos were the girls trying to see where they were going. I have an iphone and it’s hard to recall how to bring up the flashlight on the phone. I also think both girls fell from a cliff or high area and they were gravely injured. They had no idea where they were once they went off trail.
There were no search parties or planes in the mountains in the early hours on any days, nevermind in the rain. Search planes don't fly over mountains at night in the rain. Neither lady appears to have even used their phone torches either. The pics were likely taken for giggles by a third party just to mess around.
The "Tour Guide" was always a chief suspect to outsiders who looked into the case and also for people and especially young woman who were there prior to Kris Kremers & Lisanne Froon.
Who were the 2 Dutch guys they met in Panama?? Is there a chance they met them to go hiking?? It seems the most obvious to me. Hope this case is solved!
The El pianista trail is not treacherous nor dangerous. In fact it is surrounded by such thick jungle that you can’t get off the trail even if you wanted to. This is confirmed by Kris’s parents too, who went out and hiked the trail themselves shortly after the girls went missing. The monkey bridges and fast flowing rivers are further down the trail, where they were not supposed to be in the first place.
Indeed. It's impossible to fall off the trail. The brush would stop you. Nor could they have reached the first monkey bridge by the time the first emergency call was made. If an accident, surely they would have utilised the bras as a bandage, strapping or padding? It's common sense. They didnt. The bras were in the backpack.
In the end, I think they let themselves be trapped by the arrival of night. After photo 508, I think Lisanne dropped her camera on the ground or in the water. Making it unusable. Despite everything, they continued a little on the trail and at one point they decided to go back but they saw that the light was dropping very quickly in certain portions since we are in the tropics and the sun rises at 6:00 in the morning and goes to bed at 6:00 p.m. all year round. They are therefore on their way back but they realize that they need at least two or three hours of walking and a large part of this walk will have to take place at night. They worry because they know the places they have already passed and know that without a flashlight, in the dark of night, it is very difficult and distressing. That’s when they try to call for help, if only to say where they are because they didn’t tell anyone in the end. They just said they were going for a walk. But impossible to contact anyone: no network. At that moment, they were not injured, nor pursued by anyone, just anxious at the idea of returning at night. The wisest thing would have been to land somewhere in open ground and resolve to spend the night there and leave the next morning at first light. In a video, the mother of Kriss who came on the trail explains that she is absolutely sure that if one of the girls had been injured, they would have stayed on the trail and waited. The problem actually is that he There was no injury or other, only from being trapped by the time and the arrival of night, and also from not having warned anyone. I think that by trying to retrace the path at night, she had a high chance of getting lost, falling, slipping, etc. Which at night reinforces the seriousness of the situation. So they get lost. And the second catastrophe arrives, no one knows where they went or more precisely, no one knows that they continued beyond the Mirador, towards the North on the path. So by the time we organize the research, a lot of time will pass. And we will have to wait until April 6 for research to be done on the other side of the Mirador. That is to say that the girls got lost, that they continued to move during these 6 days, if only to try to find a place with a little network. And obviously in 6 days, without food or very little (?), without water except that of the river (risk of diarrhea that one of the girls already had not long before during the stay), without being able to make a fire. Fear, anxiety, stress, exhaustion...etc. When the search begins beyond the Mirador, the girls are already in a bad state in my opinion. On April 8, they have been in the jungle for 7 days! It is said that you can survive 3 minutes without breathing, 3 days without drinking and 3 weeks without eating. I think they were in the state of people who go on hunger strike. They must have remained in bed, half lucid. One may be more affected than the other. On the night of April 8, they heard noise, perhaps light signals in the sky or something else coming from the search teams. I think Lisanne understands that you have to try something to stand out. They are obviously in no condition to scream or anything. So she takes out the camera which she had put to dry and which she had not tried to get it working again since. And it works again. This is possible if the device fell into water and was quickly removed from the water. In time he can works again. So she decides to use it to make flash shots towards the sky. Obviously it takes photos at the same time but the goal is the flash. She is exhausted and at the same time held by the hope of being seen. She awkwardly directs the flash towards the ground a few times which causes her to accidentally take a photo of Kriss' hair who is probably lying sleepy next to her or her head on Lisanne's legs. But it doesn't work, the noises and signals go away. The only hope for days has vanished. We didn't see them. I think they end up dying of exhaustion and hunger. Not necessarily at the same time. Subsequently, the rainy season set in, causing rivers to swell and causing flooding. Their bodies were carried away by the waves, disintegrating as they decomposed.... RQ / *Contrary to what has often been said, the bag was dirty and damp when they found it. The items they contained were also damp and the devices were unusable. The Dutch experts had difficulty using them; it was easier with SD cards. *The fact that the young women took off their bras appears normal considering the conditions in which they were (heat, humidity, etc.). *The shorts again were not found dry and folded neatly on a stone. It was dirty, wet and with holes. *There have never been 70 pin code attempts in 1 day as has been said. In fact it was the Dutch experts who determined that since the phone was put into service, there had been 70 unsuccessful pin code attempts. That is to say that since the girl had been using her cell phone, it had happened to her 70 times of making a mistake when typing your code. *There has never been a scrap of human flesh found with bones, which seemed impossible as decomposition would have made it disappear very quickly. In fact this scrap of flesh was analyzed and it was beef.
@@JM-lu8nn Many problems with your theory. 1. The trail is pretty well used every day, particularly in the afternoon, according to people who have walked it. Yet nobody saw Kris and Lisanne that first afternoon? In your theory (that they were putting safety first) they would have remained by the trail that first afternoon and evening. So why no sighting of them, even the next days when you say they were moving around? They would have stuck to the trail if they were safety conscious like in your scenario. 2. Doubtful they would have each only tried the emergency number just once, even if they didnt initially panic. They didn't even try to phone Miriam, their host. 3. The next morning, seeing as they survived the night they would (in your scenario) have felt more relief as daylight has come and would have all day to retrace their steps. Why then call the emergency number again in the morning if there is no emergency, and not at least also try to phone Miriam to tell her the situation? 4. Lisanne dropped the phone and it wouldn't work for a whole week, but magically worked again on April 8th when she was able to take masses of photos of....... absolutely nothing. Not even a selfie or anything showing them both clearly or even alive? 5. There were no night searches on April 8th. Search parties do not search mountainous terrain in the middle of the night in the rain. It is pointless, impossible risks putting the searchers in danger. They suspend operations and start again in the morning. 6. The backpack did not indicate it had been out in the elements for months in all weathers and the person who found it said it wasn't there the day before. 7. The bras showed no indication of being used after day one, either as a bandage, strapping or padding or being used as rudimentary pillows each night. They were not used for anything of the sort. 8. No pending WhatsApp messages, no pending SMS messages, no messages of any kind. And why take lots of night pictures of silly cryptic nonsense designed to deepen the mystery, instead of turning the video function on and just TALK? 9. To believe Kris and Lisanne got lost and stayed lost, doing none of the things they should have logically done is to insinuate both were stupid and ignorant young women, and I don't believe that to be the case. Not at all.
@@lyndoncmp5751 1/ Many poeple on that trail after mirador ? Really ? But then we have evidence with photos that they have been on the trail that day and that they go beyond Mirador. So i dont think theres so many poeple using the trail and as we are sure that they were on the trail, it would mean that all those poeple that you pretend uing the trail, they all lie and dont want to say they have seen the girl ? What is say is that when they have decided to come back to Bokete, they have seen that the light is decreasing very fast . And then realise that night will come quickly but they still have hours to walk to come back. What i say is that they didnt wait on the trail after the phone call. I t would have been the best thing to do to stay all nihgt long on the trail waiting for morning. But i think they have decided to try to come back despite of the night. They didnt want to remain stuck on the trail by night then they try to come back. And then , happen something, wrong direction or accident because they dont see clearly the trail. Then they get lost and maybe fall somewhere after not rrealizing that they are not on the trail anymore cause the night. 2/ When they realise the night is coming faster and they are still Hours of walk from the mirador, then they try to use phone to call emergency. They are not injury , nobody is after them, they are just realising thath wlkingon the trail by night is not easy, will be very slow, and then they want to tell wherer they are. Cause they never told anybody where they went. But as soon as they have seen that theres no connection, they just think, cause they are clever, no need , we have no signal. Lets walk as fast as we cas to come back as soon as we can to mirador cause in mirador, you can have signal. 3/ They get lost trying to come back on the trail by night. They know theres no signal , why shoud they try to call without signal ? Now they are lost and maybe wounded, better to save telephone battery. 4/ Am not talking about the phone, am talking about the camera. Lisanne use the camera after 7 days as i explain why. They do not use the phone to make photos or selfie cause they are clever. No need to waste battery for nothing. They have no equipment, nothing . But the only thing that can link them with the civilisation is those 2 smartphone. And when they left Bokete, they didnt recharge the battery 100%. 5/ There were searches during the night of the 7th to the 8th with the launch of signal rockets. A Sinaproc team remained on one of the sites all night and sent out call and light signals. 6/ fake information , It is not true. The bag was dirty and wet. And all item inside the bag was also wet. 7/ So ? I am sure that due to the conditions of life those 2 girsl were, it is very normal that they dont keep their bra. 8/ Lisanne have seen during the light signal sent by the reasearch team Sinaproc. She then try to use the camera NOT to take photos, but to try to us the flash hoping that someone could see the flash light in the middle of the darkness. Thats why she mainly put the camera in the direction of the sky . She didnt want to make any photos but to show the reasaerch team where they are wiht the flash light. Why trying SMS or whatsapp when no signal : they try to save battery. 9/They were not supide at all. They just make the wrong decision according to me not to tell exactly where they went. They have decided to go for pianista at the last minute, wihtout equipement, and even to go beyond the mirador . According to me , again, thats why they try to come back despite of the night , cause nobody knew where they are and no signal to call anyone. They have survived many days but when the reasaech team start to go beyond the Mirador, it was already vary late , many days after, and girls were already exhausted. I blame the shool who delete them for one week cause after that, both girl decide to find things to do at the last minute and they dont have time to prepare and talk with poeple that could have told them advice regarding trail . Just took a look in website and they went to ¨Pianista " like you go for shopping in summer.
@lyndoncmp5751 1/ Many poeple on that trail after mirador ? Really ? But then we have evidence with photos that they have been on the trail that day and that they go beyond Mirador. So i dont think theres so many poeple using the trail and as we are sure that they were on the trail, it would mean that all those poeple that you pretend uing the trail, they all lie and dont want to say they have seen the girl ? What is say is that when they have decided to come back to Bokete, they have seen that the light is decreasing very fast . And then realise that night will come quickly but they still have hours to walk to come back. What i say is that they didnt wait on the trail after the phone call. I t would have been the best thing to do to stay all nihgt long on the trail waiting for morning. But i think they have decided to try to come back despite of the night. They didnt want to remain stuck on the trail by night then they try to come back. And then , happen something, wrong direction or accident because they dont see clearly the trail. Then they get lost and maybe fall somewhere after not rrealizing that they are not on the trail anymore cause the night. 2/ When they realise the night is coming faster and they are still Hours of walk from the mirador, then they try to use phone to call emergency. They are not injury , nobody is after them, they are just realising thath wlkingon the trail by night is not easy, will be very slow, and then they want to tell wherer they are. Cause they never told anybody where they went. But as soon as they have seen that theres no connection, they just think, cause they are clever, no need , we have no signal. Lets walk as fast as we cas to come back as soon as we can to mirador cause in mirador, you can have signal. 3/ They get lost trying to come back on the trail by night. They know theres no signal , why shoud they try to call without signal ? Now they are lost and maybe wounded, better to save telephone battery. 4/ Am not talking about the phone, am talking about the camera. Lisanne use the camera after 7 days as i explain why. They do not use the phone to make photos or selfie cause they are clever. No need to waste battery for nothing. They have no equipment, nothing . But the only thing that can link them with the civilisation is those 2 smartphone. And when they left Bokete, they didnt recharge the battery 100%. 5/ There were searches during the night of the 7th to the 8th with the launch of signal rockets. A Sinaproc team remained on one of the sites all night and sent out call and light signals. 6/ fake information , It is not true. The bag was dirty and wet. And all item inside the bag was also wet. 7/ So ? I am sure that due to the conditions of life those 2 girsl were, it is very normal that they dont keep their bra. 8/ Lisanne have seen during the light signal sent by the reasearch team Sinaproc. She then try to use the camera NOT to take photos, but to try to us the flash hoping that someone could see the flash light in the middle of the darkness. Thats why she mainly put the camera in the direction of the sky . She didnt want to make any photos but to show the reasaerch team where they are wiht the flash light. Why trying SMS or whatsapp when no signal : they try to save battery. 9/They were not supide at all. They just make the wrong decision according to me not to tell exactly where they went. They have decided to go for pianista at the last minute, wihtout equipement, and even to go beyond the mirador . According to me , again, thats why they try to come back despite of the night , cause nobody knew where they are and no signal to call anyone. They have survived many days but when the reasaech team start to go beyond the Mirador, it was already vary late , many days after, and girls were already exhausted. I blame the shool who delete them for one week cause after that, both girl decide to find things to do at the last minute and they dont have time to prepare and talk with poeple that could have told them advice regarding trail . Just took a look in website and they went to ¨Pianista " like you go for shopping in summer.
The shorts were not found folded neatly on a rock. It’s unclear how this piece of misinformation got started, but the error has been corrected multiple times, in multiple places. This case is fraught with misinformation and errors. I think it’s the main reason it comes across sounding so mysterious. Not that it makes it any less terrifying for the girls and traumatic for their families, but it’s one of those situations that makes pretty perfect and logical sense when Occam’s Razor and its premise is applied,
have been through this hundred times drove me nuts, what annoys me is one or both where alive when the search started, they went unprepared, what gets me is it's not a very nice track, screams where herd by a French couple coming from the track, a helicopter pilot said he thought he saw Skellington's on the side of the stream ?the bag clothes turned up after the reward was posted. could a child of been playing with the flash on the camera? I think that's when they search went further down the track, that guide who seems to pop up everywhere, and seems to dictate to the police the media, and he took the mother and father up the track think he found the boot, it drove me nuts best documentary for this is by a Dutch girl it's in 4 parts . lot of hearsay BS regarding this?
On one picture we can see paper used to make a SOS sign and a small handmade miror on a rock. But my question is... You also see a grey band in the front. I have a hard time to place that on any of the girls posessions, they where seen with on the other pictures from the start of the trail. What is this grey band from?
Dutch Authorities can talk to the german secretary of the language school who fled Panama once the girls disappeared Don t tell me she doesn t want to talk about it Check if these pictures weren t photoshopped Big doubts about these pictures Many say the pictures were tampered with
@@doriangray5750 they 1000% were. they had all the details for this trip ironed out 6 months in advance. then when the girls get there, all of a sudden they don't have boarding for them? these girls were dead the moment they got on that plane to Panama.
We hate not knowing. It’s the worst thing for our psyche. I just hope the girls didn’t suffer. I’m curious if there have been any more accidents or evidence of foul play reported in the area where they disappeared.
There’s an excellent multi-episode podcast about this case, an investigative reporter who talked with the mother of one of the several young men who later showed up unalived in suspicious circumstances. The young man allegedly told his mom everything because he was scared for his life. The girlfriend of one of the men allegedly sought asylum in Costa Rica. I don’t think I’m permitted to link to other channels / sites. Search for lost in Panama.
After watching many videos and reading lots about the case the most likely theory imo is abduction for the purpose of organ harvesting, and if so means they were alive for several days after being abducted at the swimming pool area presumably.
Yes lots of other mysterious deaths in the area. Conversely nobody else has ever got lost and remained lost on that trail either before or after nevermind two people together. It's basically impossible to get lost there.
Watched many podcast on these poor girls. You did a really great job, keep up the good work. I was a little put off to post this, because last time I did, I was threatened with loss of YT. Well, I’m gonna throw this out there, you do your own research. If you believe in psychics,I know a lot of people don’t. There is a woman, excellent psychic, her name is Slone Bella. She has a YT channel, does many readings. She has a podcast regarding the girls. Be prepared, it’s absolutely terrible, so beware. God bless the girls.
People have so many opinions on this but their camera doesn’t show any foul play whatsoever this is most baffling has to be foul play no way the photo was deleted yet the camera left there that makes no sense at all
The behavior of modern Americans in particular, and in this case Europeans, has irked me for some time. Young folks just saunter all over the globe assuming they have the right and the ability to go anywhere. I highly object. The conditions that existed before Western exploration are pretty much still there. It’s not Disneyland. In addition, many of these remote places harbor people living in severe poverty, most of whom have no education at all. The areas are dangerous. Don’t overestimate your abilities.
Why Osman died ? Why his mother has to make up a story to hurt the gang's reputation and his own son ? What was her motive and what she want ? I do not understand ?
I do too In one of the photos the guide was doing the thumbs up pose I think he had them so the same pose in some of their photos I think he was compensated by either bringing them to a tribe for cannibalism or he killed them himself He spent an hour in their room afterwards with their host after they disappeared fiddling with their computer
If they were a 14 hour walk away,the helicopter would of found them fast,the parents stated that they would never of walked down a cliff face.the bag was immaculate.how?why?camera had been down stream but still worked?
I see this crime briefly has big purpose and days gonna prove that if it's escalated , it's an organised organ trafficking crime and kriss kremers and lissane froon have faced many creepy things by different people
It was the Panamanian police that downloaded the SD card. They're the ones who deleted the missing photo, either deliberately or accidentally. We'll never know which.
I don't know if I'm the only one but just to let you know: I'm getting seriously motion-sick from the video playing on the green screen in the background, It's like sitting in a driving car in the wrong direction. Maybe you could consider switching to something else (unless it's only me having these issues). I appreciate your face, but I'm gonna put you on audio only now.
there are people in that village know the truth,and i born in the caribean,my friends in south and central america will all tell ypou they were murderd
While I am heartbroken for these poor girls and their families, I'm also wondering why they would set off on an "adventure" like this without someone who knew the terrain, had a better plan B just on case they got lost or broke a leg etc. Cell phone coverage would've been non existent for the most part and let's not forget these are young women who are capable yes but not exactly built for a hike thru a jungle with unknown pitfalls and strange people who may want to harm them. They see 2 naive, trusting, women set off into a jungle and some assholes get ideas- it just stinks of foul play to me and some of these countries could give 2 shits what happens to European or American tourists
Simply I see this crime briefly has big purpose and days gonna prove that if it's escalated , it's an organised organ trafficking crime and kriss kremers and lissane froon have faced many creepy things by different people
They were clearly placed there to be found. In the entire decade since, no other body parts of items of clothing have turned up, likely because the rest of the bodies were somewhere else entirely. Only smallish body parts found. Parts easily transported in a small day backpack. No spinal columns, rib cages, femurs or skulls etc were ever found.
@@markusmaier2277 the bones are bleached. there is no DNA to be found. even if they did find DNA, they'd need a suspect. DNA isn't just going to tell them who it belongs to.
Great presentation John. Long time fan. One question, Are you in a wagon? Seriously though this is hard to do what you're doing on these types of vids. Hats off.
Another great podcast presentation however I researched other sources number one the 77 attempts to get into the phone we're performed over the lifespan of the phone not those couple days number two they can and Camera is noted for skipping a picture mechanically that is in other words it's not necessarily true that a picture was deleted I'm just giving you some different perspectives I learned a great deal from the Elisa lamb case not everything is As It Seems she lifted the latch to climb into the water tank in those girls wandered off it's very very easy to get lost you can step 10 ft off a trail and not know where you're going they were never familiar with the area and if you clearly go down the other side of the Hill there's a lot more trails so the obvious conclusion would be they became lost why would a Sinister person leave the backpack to be discovered with money in it? That's just my humble opinion thanks again for a wonderful presentation
If they got lost and perished, where are the rest of the bones and clothes? Why were kris' pelvic bone bleached white and not the others? Also why would a criminal keep evidence of the girls at his property instead of leaving it in the forrest?
Did photo 509 even exist? If it did it would seem very strange for the killers to leave the camera and stake so much on it not being recoverable by experts. It was certainly a double homicide, and everyone knows who did it. That guide had a reputation long before Kris and Lisanne went to Panama.
yes, it existed. it was a picture they took of themselves at caldera hot springs with the group of guys that abducted them. there was no risk, because the police deleted the picture themselves.
I'm probably not the first to think of this but if they were conscious and not too far away, wouldn't they be yelling and making noise to attract searchers instead of playing around with the camera and phones?
It sucks, there are places all around the globe that would be fun to visit/see...but sadly, most of the world is mean and dangerous. Im a grown man and there are places that i wont go or will never set foot in again because of past experiences. Fact of the matter is, young women need to realize, you cant just venture into a lot of countries expecting to be ok as we've seen it again and again, too many end up missing or worse. Most places are not as friendly as your backyard......
@@no_peace tell me you never looked at statistics without telling me you never look at statistics. Even if they did fall and get hurt, I guarantee they weren't properly prepared for the environment they were going into...happens all the time.
I agree completely these days there is just craziness everywhere in the world. These girls obviously were not prepared for much at all no food not much water and no guide they should have had a guide lead them especially with them being so unfamiliar with the area. I think they got lost and succumbed to the elements after perhaps hurting themselves by accident I don’t think there is any foul play people love to say there is foul play whenever someone goes missing or is found dead. Not good
@@robbieracer3294Agree 100% and as a woman, wouldn't walk the Pianista or choose Boquete, Panama as a vacation destination. I'd have second thoughts no matter who I was going with and a quick spin around Google maps is all I need. All the window are covered with security bars and fencing. "Tourist Welcome Center" with security bars over its windows is a bit ominous. This is aside from any unexpected issues an unprepared hiker would encounter on any trail.
There is absolutely no proof that the picture got deleted by a glitch. In fact this type of camera is not known to do so. There are a lot of people that studied this specific camera and came to the conclusion that a glitch is highly unlikely. Do not talk about misinformation and spread some yourself. By the way, you are right about the fact that the backpack was wet, with dirt inside and the phones were ruined, they had to restore them in order to get the data etc. A lot of times people talk about the backpack being in pristine condition, this is indeed not true.
@@liou1369 you are suffering from confirmation bias. there is no proof that it got deleted sure- but- there were experiments with cameras that got dropped and pics got deleted. So where is your evidence for murder?
@@liou1369 I did not. I said that there could be a glitch which is unlikely but at the same time possible, and that was shown even with the exact same model.
@@markusmaier2277 No, you said, the photo got deleted by a glitch when they fell, word for word🤣 No exactly, there isn,t evidence for any scenario, not that they got lost, injured and perished or that they were murdered. I have my opinion but nothing more then that and you have yours. How do you see the fact that they not left a message on the phone(s) or camera?
@@liou1369 As often mentioned, in a survival scenario you dont do that. Leaving a goodbye message would be a sign of resignation psychologically. Whats more, the first concern was to save battery which was running low.
Er, what the hell is going on at 9:39 - the picture with two red circles? I rotated the picture 180 degrees, aka upside down and actually frightened myself by what is in the dark red circle. It looks like a face… but not … is anyone else seeing this!?!
One more thing about the missing photo the dog blue.... now if there was a dog around you know those girls would have taken 50 photos of the dog there are no pictures of the dog which tells me the government possibly did not release all the photos however I'm clearly convinced those poor girls became lost and disoriented
I think it was only a tragic accident. The fact someone was trying to get in contact with emergency services. If they were murdered then why was someone trying to get in contact with emergency services. If they were murdered whoever murdered them would definitely not phone the police.
It cannot be said whether it was murder or an accident. But many questions are answered. About Feliciano or the ominous photo in the lake. It's really very interesting and I can recommend it to anyone who is interested in the fate of Kris and Lisanne.
@@Sandoz-tq7qj It cannot be said whether it was murder or an accident. But many questions are answered. About Feliciano or the ominous photo in the lake. It's really very interesting and I can recommend it to anyone who is interested in the fate of Kris and Lisanne.
If I would look for more answers I would start with the receptionist (from school) I guess . Who left Panamá and went back to Germany to Live with her parents as she says.
It bugs me that people keep saying they got lost . It’s definitely was foul play . Tourist should be protected rather than ignore the red flags , a lot of tourist disappeared in the same area , not so long ago a female tourist was murdered .
Again, another video that is nothing new!!! You should watch some videos on this topic so you can pronounce words right. Pianista means piano. The trail is like keys on a piano.
Move on instead of insulting John because he didn't cover a case YOU prefer. This case is unsolved & could use some fresh eyes. You're re beyond rude. 👎
@Galaxie08 Do you see a comment section?! I do so why don't you move on.!!! Everyone under the sun has done videos about this topic, and I've watched too many to count. This guy is way behind the times, and he can't pronounce words properly. It's my right to leave a comment if you don't like it. Keep scrolling!!!! Maybe you should watch more videos about this topic and get back to me!!! Ha!!!!
@@michelleschandorff7238 Maybe you should show just an ounce of human decency instead of the mindset that you can say whatever you want on social media as there are no consequences. This is not your channel, and 'this guy' has a name, and you're not John's boss. I'm sure no one forces you to watch channels you don't like. You saw the title--you're tired of this particular case: MOVE ON!! Bye! 👋
@Galaxie08 LQTMS 🤣😂🤣 Didn't say I was tired of the case. I'm just tired of people repeating themselves... I thought maybe there was new news, but NO... Go watch more of this guy's videos and bug off!!!
The unanswered question is why did the school not want them? Was the school offer(?) a ruse for something else? Or was strange behaviour a cue to them not being employed? If indeed they were behaving oddly. A lot of ' orange' objects being highlighted in their photos which I found a bit odd. Some sort of cult?
@@LiquidShivaz I knew of William of Orange. Can't say I personally know of Orange flags at soccer as I don't generally watch such sport-with the exception of some extreme ones, very rarely Rugby & Cricket if something amazing happens in the match. 🥝🇳🇿 I still think they are highlighting that particular pinky 'coral' like orange hue for some reason whether for 'National' identity or Cultic reasons? Lots of these 'missing' person cases have quite a bit of 😜 Kali tongue 'invocations' going on don't they? Or is that behaviour also ubiquitous now amongst younger people? Perhaps all the 👅 emojis confirm this now. Yes, could be that 'other' meaning.
@@rickh3714 All I said is very easy to find on Google. I really have not the slightest clue as of what you mean about Kali tongue, that emoji here is not connected to Kali. As I'm Dutch myself I'm pretty aware about this case, and their people. There is no religion, or cults involved here. Sure we use the devilshorns if we feel cheeky, we use the tongue emoji when having a blast Yay! You're referring to something that's housing in your head, not irl as of in the case.
I'll answer those questions for you. The school did want them, just not for teaching. The school was the first part of the organ harvesting ring. They ironed out the details for this trip 6 months prior, then when the girls get there, all of a sudden they don't have boarding for them. They suggested the person that they ended up rooming with. That was the first step to start tracking them in preparation for abduction. The reddish/orange bits you're seeing are pieces of the balloons that were at the caldera hot springs, which they went to with the gang of guys that abducted them.
The thing that always got me is that they never recorded a goodbye message. In a lot of cases of people missing for quite some time with recording devices they record something. I would think at least one of them would have recorded or even written it in a text so if the worst happened and they weren’t found there would be something to their families. But, these girls didn't do that. That leads me to believe they weren't able to.Just this one point by itself makes me think foul play and then when you add in all the other things it’s so suspicious that something bad happened.
Maybe they had hope that they would survive, be saved, or were running on so much adrenaline that that wasn't a thought
Ooof, I wouldn't have thought of that one, but from a social psychology perspective, that makes sense. @no_peace
💯 they were murdered
@@NickyBlue99 The troll is back! ruclips.net/video/rdNVlQq6Lno/видео.html
Wow what a great point!
This one is easily in my top 5 of strangest cases. Everything about it is bizarre.
I agree
What the other 4 strangest cases beside this ??
Missy Bevers, Liz Barraza, Karlie Guse, The Springfield 3, Brianna Maitland, Brian Shaffer, Daniel Robinson, Jelani Day, Lars Mittank, Summer Wells, , Asha Degree are just a few of my all time weirdest cases.
Yogurt shop murders
@@AwakenYourself-xv1mq This one and Jennifer Kesse are the top two that I personally can’t get out of my head.
I love Mysteriously Mysterious! I can't help but think of how frightened and panicked these young women must have felt and that is heartbreaking.. i hope the mystery of what happened to them is solved.
Mysteriously Mysterious?
@@scottcantdance804 😂
I feel a little conflicted about reviewing cases. I'd like to figure it out, but I also feel bad because it involves knowing how they were feeling. So I question what it means about myself that I explore the mystery.
Fun fact - the Kramers family own the Kreamy Kram doughnut franchise.
Thanks for your dedication on the cases you do. You have a big heart and you make a difference! 😊
Small correction. They did not live and work in Amsterdam but in Amersfoort a town a bit more to the east.
This case has always bothered me. Not so much that I think foul play was involved, but mostly just knowing how horrible this was for them. It's so hard to really apply logic to scenarios like this adequately. I know we like to assign a third party to senseless deaths to try to add some sense to them. It's horrible to think of the fear they would have felt. No one ever wants to assign blame to victims, it hurts the heart too much to think they could be the very figures that caused their own demise. If I were to guess, though, about the night photos by that time, they would have been paranoid and on the edge of delirium. The photos at night may be out of fear of predators. Real or imagined. Of course, like anyone else, all I can do is guess. If you are going to go hiking in your own backyard and especially in foreign areas, don't treat it lightly. Plan as if you are absolutely going to make a mistake and get lost, but try your best not to. I just don't know what to think here. RIP ladies.
2 girls going alone to well anywhere long term hiking trips 3rd world nations etc. is bloody insane let alone white girls in non white countries, what a shame on there fathers, no I'm not victim blaming here, in addition to this very dangerous false "empowerment" ignorant mindset/mentality increasingly activists courts and da's no longer executing convicted pedos rapists and murderer's anymore like ever simply adds to this disastrous combo, a dang avoidable tragic shame all around. Now I get 99 percent of people will think what i said is despicable, but what's more important acknowledging the truth and reality or virtue signaling? I dont want this to happen to innocent women and so I will tell the truth on this and to them bottom line ya know.
It does sound so horrible… can’t imagine their pure fear.
Just don't go.
Yes, I have often thought the same concerning this case
They were murdered
Haven't watched the channel in awhile but great to find this video and see you're still going strong on here
There is absolutely no way that the girls got lost. Photo 509 is the key to the case.
yep. and photo 509 is a picture they took of themselves at caldera hot springs with the guys that ultimately abducted them
No. They fell and the camera had a glitch
Horrific story...😢
There are even more mysterious deaths related to this case. I hope the truth will come out one day...
Weren't the taxi driver and other people the girls spent time in Panama murdered/mysterious deaths?
In one of the pictures, of the "SOS marker", it clearly captures the gray unpadded strap of a backpack that wasn't theirs. Theirs was black and padded.
Love the work you do & so great full for all the work you do thank you so much to you.
This is so terrible. My heart goes out to their families and friends.
Very strange case the missing picture 509 might hold the answer to this mystery.
it does. it's a picture of them at the caldera hot springs during the time when they were supposed to be missing in the jungle. the guys they're with were the ones that abducted them.
This is truly one of the scariest and most disturbing story ever. No matter how many times I listen to it. I feel so sorry for these girls 😢
I see this crime briefly has big purpose and days gonna prove that if it's escalated , it's an organised organ trafficking crime and kriss kremers and lissane froon have faced many creepy things by different people
You'd think if someone was sophisticated enough to permanently remove an image and possibly manipulate meta data, they'd rename the files to not leave a gap.
Would it be possible for future AI recovery programmes to retrieve remnants of photo 509, dya know? I'm not a tech head so I have no idea
They would still be taking a huge chance leaving the camera for forensic experts to work on, But they did so the photo likely neven contained evidence against them, if it even once existed.
@@seancidy6008 Panama police deleted the picture because it went against their narrative of the girls being lost in the jungle
@@JSwanKilowJ Well that would mean that the killer deliberately left the camera knowing there was a picture of them with their victims in it.
@@seancidy6008 idk if the picture had the guys on it. Could've just been a pic of the girls. Either way, keeping the stuff intact allows them to perpetuate the "missing in the jungle" narrative. Which is exactly why Panamanian officials had to delete that picture and doctor/rearrange others to try to give that narrative more credence
Best presentation of this case I’ve ever heard
I might be confused in the timeline, but that photo of strawberry blonde hair - - anybody else notice how clean that hair looks? Does not look like the hair of somebody who'd been wandering around in the jungle for a week. It's not greasy or sweaty or dirty in the least. Yeah, the deletion of photo #508 really does keep people from being satisfied with any of the official rulings. Great job on this case!
I don’t think that those girls had died in that forest. I think that their bones were putted there so people think that the last place they were was there. As a south american woman I probably wash my hair one day yes and another day no or when is too hot its humid the scalp stay oily and moist. I can wake up everyday at 06:00 wash my hair even if I don’t go at the beach, and stay at the A.C because of humidity it electrifies at afternoon or at the end of the day. I saw the photo with only her hair and Belive it or not but if those girls had been on that trail (which I doubt they were) even if for 2 to 3 hours her hair would not be clean and loose.
It always struck me wrong that neither girl wrote any memo on their phones. Both had kept a diary that they wrote everyday, so why didn't they write? 🤷♂️
In the end, I think they let themselves be trapped by the arrival of night.
After photo 508, I think Lisanne dropped her camera on the ground or in the water. Making it unusable. Despite everything, they continued a little on the trail and at one point they decided to go back but they saw that the light was dropping very quickly in certain portions since we are in the tropics and the sun rises at 6:00 in the morning and goes to bed at 6:00 p.m. all year round.
They are therefore on their way back but they realize that they need at least two or three hours of walking and a large part of this walk will have to take place at night. They worry because they know the places they have already passed and know that without a flashlight, in the dark of night, it is very difficult and distressing.
That’s when they try to call for help, if only to say where they are because they didn’t tell anyone in the end. They just said they were going for a walk.
But impossible to contact anyone: no network.
At that moment, they were not injured, nor pursued by anyone, just anxious at the idea of returning at night. The wisest thing would have been to land somewhere in open ground and resolve to spend the night there and leave the next morning at first light. In a video, the mother of Kriss who came on the trail explains that she is absolutely sure that if one of the girls had been injured, they would have stayed on the trail and waited. The problem actually is that he There was no injury or other, only from being trapped by the time and the arrival of night, and also from not having warned anyone.
I think that by trying to retrace the path at night, she had a high chance of getting lost, falling, slipping, etc. Which at night reinforces the seriousness of the situation.
So they get lost. And the second catastrophe arrives, no one knows where they went or more precisely, no one knows that they continued beyond the Mirador, towards the North on the path. So by the time we organize the research, a lot of time will pass. And we will have to wait until April 6 for research to be done on the other side of the Mirador. That is to say that the girls got lost, that they continued to move during these 6 days, if only to try to find a place with a little network. And obviously in 6 days, without food or very little (?), without water except that of the river (risk of diarrhea that one of the girls already had not long before during the stay), without being able to make a fire. Fear, anxiety, stress, exhaustion...etc. When the search begins beyond the Mirador, the girls are already in a bad state in my opinion.
On April 8, they have been in the jungle for 7 days! It is said that you can survive 3 minutes without breathing, 3 days without drinking and 3 weeks without eating. I think they were in the state of people who go on hunger strike. They must have remained in bed, half lucid. One may be more affected than the other.
On the night of April 8, they heard noise, perhaps light signals in the sky or something else coming from the search teams. I think Lisanne understands that you have to try something to stand out. They are obviously in no condition to scream or anything. So she takes out the camera which she had put to dry and which she had not tried to get it working again since. And it works again. This is possible if the device fell into water and was quickly removed from the water. In time he can works again. So she decides to use it to make flash shots towards the sky. Obviously it takes photos at the same time but the goal is the flash.
She is exhausted and at the same time held by the hope of being seen. She awkwardly directs the flash towards the ground a few times which causes her to accidentally take a photo of Kriss' hair who is probably lying sleepy next to her or her head on Lisanne's legs.
But it doesn't work, the noises and signals go away. The only hope for days has vanished. We didn't see them.
I think they end up dying of exhaustion and hunger. Not necessarily at the same time.
Subsequently, the rainy season set in, causing rivers to swell and causing flooding. Their bodies were carried away by the waves, disintegrating as they decomposed....
RQ / *Contrary to what has often been said, the bag was dirty and damp when they found it. The items they contained were also damp and the devices were unusable. The Dutch experts had difficulty using them; it was easier with SD cards.
*The fact that the young women took off their bras appears normal considering the conditions in which they were (heat, humidity, etc.).
*The shorts again were not found dry and folded neatly on a stone. It was dirty, wet and with holes.
*There have never been 70 pin code attempts in 1 day as has been said. In fact it was the Dutch experts who determined that since the phone was put into service, there had been 70 unsuccessful pin code attempts. That is to say that since the girl had been using her cell phone, it had happened to her 70 times of making a mistake when typing your code.
*There has never been a scrap of human flesh found with bones, which seemed impossible as decomposition would have made it disappear very quickly. In fact this scrap of flesh was analyzed and it was beef.
Your theory is possible . Do you mean nothing to do with the taxi driver, Feliciano and the gang ?
The four suspicious deaths of the young men directly related to the case in the ensuing days to come - including the taxi driver, the son of Guide F, and the two youg men pictured with Kris and Lisanne at the waterfall - are clear indication that the young women's disappearance was the result of foul play. The fact that each of the four young men's deaths had been ruled "accidental" despite
overwhelming evidence to the contrary strongly suggests that authorities were dead set on sweeping the entire ordeal under the rug even to the point of eliminating any future investigations and inquiries into the related subsequent deaths, indicating that authorities were unwilling to risk any chance of someone uncovering damning information that would contradict the nation's offical stance on the women's deaths.
A cover-up is further suggested by the death threats and bullying received by the parents of Kris when they attempted to pursue their own investigation with the help of 16 Dutch detectives and 8 scent dogs. The fact that they were ambushed by authorities wielding machetes as they approached the entrance to the trail and threatened to be killed unless they dropped the investigation and accepted the stafe ruling adds to the cerfainty of foul play. The fact that subsequent investigations by amateurs and writers were also met with the same threats indicates that whatever happened to Kris and Lisanne will remain a mystery forever until someone at some point gets drunk and reveals too much to the wrong people - or the right people.
Put the FBI on that! The girls were from Neatherlands. Is that right? FBI works overseas for decades. The govermant of Neatherlands should make an agreement with US govermant about this case. To open for investigation and documentary. I would love that!
I'm thinking a backpack was possibly accidentally left behind at some point. With all those important documents, food, water-they would backtrack & find it.
Personaly i find cases that just get abandonend more shocking than this truly mysterious case.
Like for example the case of Brianna Wells,a 17 year old girl from a upper middle class family that
was found beaten up and shot dead and then dumped in a trash alley in Tempe a bunch of years ago.
Post mortem even the local police participated in character assassination rather than in solving the case.
There is no timeline,no motive,no suspects,no nothing. And everybody - except her friends - tryng to forget...
Its a perfect example on how you get away with murder. And sadly her case isnt the only one.
Usualy those are cases that blib once on the media and then its never heard or seen from again.
Four months ago, the You Tube channel "The Pianistra Puzzle" explained how and why the night pictures came to be. This can be found in their video entitled "Return to the Night Location." They also show four different possible routes taken by the girls after the crossed over the continental divide in their video entitled "What Happened to Kris Kremers and Lisanne Froon?" Between these two videos, almost all of the questions regarding what happened to Kris and Lisanne can be answered. I believe the girls continued on the trail after the summit because they had learned there were waterfalls further on. I believe they took the route entitled "Option 2" in the latter video. I believe they got to the first cable bridge and attempted to cross it. Here, one or both were hurt seriously in the attempt. The injury (or injuries) was great enough to cause the first 112 call. I think the girls limped back to the "second paddock" hoping that the open area of the paddock would aid in an unobstructed signal. Here is where the second unsuccessful emergency call was made. The girls then powered off their phones to save battery and hunkered down for the night. In the morning I believe they headed back up the trail that they had come down, hoping to gain a signal at a higher elevation. At this point I believe they made a mistake that sealed their fate. Instead of going back up the trail the way they had come, they went off onto the trail that branches off to the southeast (this junction is labelled as El Coco on the map.) From there they continued to Rio Mamei. By this point they would have known they had made a wrong turn and they were in fact lost. I believe the girls could hear the search helicopters and knew people were looking for them. Ultimately, I believe they used the camera after moonset to try to create a light beacon hoping that someone, somewhere would see it. After this, I believe Kris passed away. Lisanne took her phone and continued on until she lost her footing and died on the rocks of the Rio Mamei. Finally, both bodies and their possessions were washed downstream during the rainy season. The bodies were shredded by the current and the rocks and Kris's shorts and the back pack came to rest where they did.
With all of my sympathy, respect, grief, and condolences for these young women's loved ones, I would humbly make the following observations and remarks: 1. There are many adventurous people around the world. 2. Especially the social media encourages many people to try something "wild" at least once in a while. 3. Too many people get too excited about adventurous trips abroad without thinking carefully about them. 4. Too many tourists embark on trips abroad without preparing carefully enough for them culturally. 5. Too many tourists visit other countries without knowing any local languages. 6. Too many tourists are unprepared for negative surprises. 7. Too many tourists rely on their good luck. 8. Too many people think only casually about their trips' potential problems. 9. Too many people think only casually about their trips' potential dangers. 10. Too many people want to "copy" or to try out many adventures and other activities which they see or watch on the Internet and/or on the TV. That all being written, R.I.P., dear Kris and Lisanne. May God comfort and bless your many loved ones, friends, acquaintances, and followers! Have a wonderful and blessed spring and summer 2024!
Were they murdered ? What is your theory ?
They fell victim to an undercover psychopath. Not the forest (where people live and keep cattle, it is by no means a jungle).
The night time photos, I wonder if someone was trying to draw attention to themselves for rescue or trying to scare a predator away. We may never really know. I can’t imagine what horrible things they encountered. Prayers to the families.
Yes. It could be either way.
I think the night photos were the girls trying to see where they were going. I have an iphone and it’s hard to recall how to bring up the flashlight on the phone. I also think both girls fell from a cliff or high area and they were gravely injured. They had no idea where they were once they went off trail.
Or someone else taking the pics, trying to make it look like the girls were still alive on those days ….
@@m.h.6499 Bingo.
There were no search parties or planes in the mountains in the early hours on any days, nevermind in the rain. Search planes don't fly over mountains at night in the rain.
Neither lady appears to have even used their phone torches either.
The pics were likely taken for giggles by a third party just to mess around.
The "Tour Guide" was always a chief suspect to outsiders who looked into the case and also for people and especially young woman who were there prior to Kris Kremers & Lisanne Froon.
Very odd that he went rummaging through their room and didn't notify the police until much later.
Dat klopt niet.
@@antirefo870 It was him and his son. He was absent from the early searches.
9:43
the year is wrong - it states 2013 when this happened in 2014
maybe just a settings error but still
the bag and clothes turned up after the reward was posted ?
Who were the 2 Dutch guys they met in Panama?? Is there a chance they met them to go hiking?? It seems the most obvious to me. Hope this case is solved!
The El pianista trail is not treacherous nor dangerous. In fact it is surrounded by such thick jungle that you can’t get off the trail even if you wanted to. This is confirmed by Kris’s parents too, who went out and hiked the trail themselves shortly after the girls went missing. The monkey bridges and fast flowing rivers are further down the trail, where they were not supposed to be in the first place.
Indeed. It's impossible to fall off the trail. The brush would stop you. Nor could they have reached the first monkey bridge by the time the first emergency call was made. If an accident, surely they would have utilised the bras as a bandage, strapping or padding? It's common sense. They didnt. The bras were in the backpack.
In the end, I think they let themselves be trapped by the arrival of night.
After photo 508, I think Lisanne dropped her camera on the ground or in the water. Making it unusable. Despite everything, they continued a little on the trail and at one point they decided to go back but they saw that the light was dropping very quickly in certain portions since we are in the tropics and the sun rises at 6:00 in the morning and goes to bed at 6:00 p.m. all year round.
They are therefore on their way back but they realize that they need at least two or three hours of walking and a large part of this walk will have to take place at night. They worry because they know the places they have already passed and know that without a flashlight, in the dark of night, it is very difficult and distressing.
That’s when they try to call for help, if only to say where they are because they didn’t tell anyone in the end. They just said they were going for a walk.
But impossible to contact anyone: no network.
At that moment, they were not injured, nor pursued by anyone, just anxious at the idea of returning at night. The wisest thing would have been to land somewhere in open ground and resolve to spend the night there and leave the next morning at first light. In a video, the mother of Kriss who came on the trail explains that she is absolutely sure that if one of the girls had been injured, they would have stayed on the trail and waited. The problem actually is that he There was no injury or other, only from being trapped by the time and the arrival of night, and also from not having warned anyone.
I think that by trying to retrace the path at night, she had a high chance of getting lost, falling, slipping, etc. Which at night reinforces the seriousness of the situation.
So they get lost. And the second catastrophe arrives, no one knows where they went or more precisely, no one knows that they continued beyond the Mirador, towards the North on the path. So by the time we organize the research, a lot of time will pass. And we will have to wait until April 6 for research to be done on the other side of the Mirador. That is to say that the girls got lost, that they continued to move during these 6 days, if only to try to find a place with a little network. And obviously in 6 days, without food or very little (?), without water except that of the river (risk of diarrhea that one of the girls already had not long before during the stay), without being able to make a fire. Fear, anxiety, stress, exhaustion...etc. When the search begins beyond the Mirador, the girls are already in a bad state in my opinion.
On April 8, they have been in the jungle for 7 days! It is said that you can survive 3 minutes without breathing, 3 days without drinking and 3 weeks without eating. I think they were in the state of people who go on hunger strike. They must have remained in bed, half lucid. One may be more affected than the other.
On the night of April 8, they heard noise, perhaps light signals in the sky or something else coming from the search teams. I think Lisanne understands that you have to try something to stand out. They are obviously in no condition to scream or anything. So she takes out the camera which she had put to dry and which she had not tried to get it working again since. And it works again. This is possible if the device fell into water and was quickly removed from the water. In time he can works again. So she decides to use it to make flash shots towards the sky. Obviously it takes photos at the same time but the goal is the flash.
She is exhausted and at the same time held by the hope of being seen. She awkwardly directs the flash towards the ground a few times which causes her to accidentally take a photo of Kriss' hair who is probably lying sleepy next to her or her head on Lisanne's legs.
But it doesn't work, the noises and signals go away. The only hope for days has vanished. We didn't see them.
I think they end up dying of exhaustion and hunger. Not necessarily at the same time.
Subsequently, the rainy season set in, causing rivers to swell and causing flooding. Their bodies were carried away by the waves, disintegrating as they decomposed....
RQ / *Contrary to what has often been said, the bag was dirty and damp when they found it. The items they contained were also damp and the devices were unusable. The Dutch experts had difficulty using them; it was easier with SD cards.
*The fact that the young women took off their bras appears normal considering the conditions in which they were (heat, humidity, etc.).
*The shorts again were not found dry and folded neatly on a stone. It was dirty, wet and with holes.
*There have never been 70 pin code attempts in 1 day as has been said. In fact it was the Dutch experts who determined that since the phone was put into service, there had been 70 unsuccessful pin code attempts. That is to say that since the girl had been using her cell phone, it had happened to her 70 times of making a mistake when typing your code.
*There has never been a scrap of human flesh found with bones, which seemed impossible as decomposition would have made it disappear very quickly. In fact this scrap of flesh was analyzed and it was beef.
@@JM-lu8nn
Many problems with your theory.
1. The trail is pretty well used every day, particularly in the afternoon, according to people who have walked it. Yet nobody saw Kris and Lisanne that first afternoon? In your theory (that they were putting safety first) they would have remained by the trail that first afternoon and evening. So why no sighting of them, even the next days when you say they were moving around? They would have stuck to the trail if they were safety conscious like in your scenario.
2. Doubtful they would have each only tried the emergency number just once, even if they didnt initially panic. They didn't even try to phone Miriam, their host.
3. The next morning, seeing as they survived the night they would (in your scenario) have felt more relief as daylight has come and would have all day to retrace their steps. Why then call the emergency number again in the morning if there is no emergency, and not at least also try to phone Miriam to tell her the situation?
4. Lisanne dropped the phone and it wouldn't work for a whole week, but magically worked again on April 8th when she was able to take masses of photos of....... absolutely nothing. Not even a selfie or anything showing them both clearly or even alive?
5. There were no night searches on April 8th. Search parties do not search mountainous terrain in the middle of the night in the rain. It is pointless, impossible risks putting the searchers in danger. They suspend operations and start again in the morning.
6. The backpack did not indicate it had been out in the elements for months in all weathers and the person who found it said it wasn't there the day before.
7. The bras showed no indication of being used after day one, either as a bandage, strapping or padding or being used as rudimentary pillows each night. They were not used for anything of the sort.
8. No pending WhatsApp messages, no pending SMS messages, no messages of any kind. And why take lots of night pictures of silly cryptic nonsense designed to deepen the mystery, instead of turning the video function on and just TALK?
9. To believe Kris and Lisanne got lost and stayed lost, doing none of the things they should have logically done is to insinuate both were stupid and ignorant young women, and I don't believe that to be the case. Not at all.
@@lyndoncmp5751
1/ Many poeple on that trail after mirador ? Really ? But then we have evidence with photos that they have been on the trail that day and that they go beyond Mirador. So i dont think theres so many poeple using the trail and as we are sure that they were on the trail, it would mean that all those poeple that you pretend uing the trail, they all lie and dont want to say they have seen the girl ?
What is say is that when they have decided to come back to Bokete, they have seen that the light is decreasing very fast . And then realise that night will come quickly but they still have hours to walk to come back.
What i say is that they didnt wait on the trail
after the phone call. I t would have been the best thing to do to stay all nihgt long on the trail waiting for morning. But i think they have decided to try to come back despite of the night. They didnt want to remain stuck on the trail by night then they try to come back. And then , happen something, wrong direction or accident because they dont see clearly the trail. Then they get lost and maybe fall somewhere after not rrealizing that they are not on the trail anymore cause the night.
2/ When they realise the night is coming faster and they are still Hours of walk from the mirador, then they try to use phone to call emergency. They are not injury , nobody is after them, they are just realising thath wlkingon the trail by night is not easy, will be very slow, and then they want to tell wherer they are. Cause they never told anybody where they went. But as soon as they have seen that theres no connection, they just think, cause they are clever, no need , we have no signal. Lets walk as fast as we cas to come back as soon as we can to mirador cause in mirador, you can have signal.
3/ They get lost trying to come back on the trail by night. They know theres no signal , why shoud they try to call without signal ?
Now they are lost and maybe wounded, better to save telephone battery.
4/ Am not talking about the phone, am talking about the camera. Lisanne use the camera after 7 days as i explain why. They do not use the phone to make photos or selfie cause they are clever. No need to waste battery for nothing. They have no equipment, nothing . But the only thing that can link them with the civilisation is those 2 smartphone. And when they left Bokete, they didnt recharge the battery 100%.
5/ There were searches during the night of the 7th to the 8th with the launch of signal rockets. A Sinaproc team remained on one of the sites all night and sent out call and light signals.
6/ fake information , It is not true. The bag was dirty and wet. And all item inside the bag was also wet.
7/ So ? I am sure that due to the conditions of life those 2 girsl were, it is very normal that they dont keep their bra.
8/ Lisanne have seen during the light signal sent by the reasearch team Sinaproc. She then try to use the camera NOT to take photos, but to try to us the flash hoping that someone could see the flash light in the middle of the darkness. Thats why she mainly put the camera in the direction of the sky . She didnt want to make any photos but to show the reasaerch team where they are wiht the flash light.
Why trying SMS or whatsapp when no signal : they try to save battery.
9/They were not supide at all. They just make the wrong decision according to me not to tell exactly where they went.
They have decided to go for pianista at the last minute, wihtout equipement, and even to go beyond the mirador .
According to me , again, thats why they try to come back despite of the night , cause nobody knew where they are and no signal to call anyone.
They have survived many days but when the reasaech team start to go beyond the Mirador, it was already vary late , many days after, and girls were already exhausted.
I blame the shool who delete them for one week cause after that, both girl decide to find things to do at the last minute and they dont have time to prepare and talk with poeple that could have told them advice regarding trail . Just took a look in website and they went to ¨Pianista " like you go for shopping in summer.
@lyndoncmp5751
1/ Many poeple on that trail after mirador ? Really ? But then we have evidence with photos that they have been on the trail that day and that they go beyond Mirador. So i dont think theres so many poeple using the trail and as we are sure that they were on the trail, it would mean that all those poeple that you pretend uing the trail, they all lie and dont want to say they have seen the girl ?
What is say is that when they have decided to come back to Bokete, they have seen that the light is decreasing very fast . And then realise that night will come quickly but they still have hours to walk to come back.
What i say is that they didnt wait on the trail
after the phone call. I t would have been the best thing to do to stay all nihgt long on the trail waiting for morning. But i think they have decided to try to come back despite of the night. They didnt want to remain stuck on the trail by night then they try to come back. And then , happen something, wrong direction or accident because they dont see clearly the trail. Then they get lost and maybe fall somewhere after not rrealizing that they are not on the trail anymore cause the night.
2/ When they realise the night is coming faster and they are still Hours of walk from the mirador, then they try to use phone to call emergency. They are not injury , nobody is after them, they are just realising thath wlkingon the trail by night is not easy, will be very slow, and then they want to tell wherer they are. Cause they never told anybody where they went. But as soon as they have seen that theres no connection, they just think, cause they are clever, no need , we have no signal. Lets walk as fast as we cas to come back as soon as we can to mirador cause in mirador, you can have signal.
3/ They get lost trying to come back on the trail by night. They know theres no signal , why shoud they try to call without signal ?
Now they are lost and maybe wounded, better to save telephone battery.
4/ Am not talking about the phone, am talking about the camera. Lisanne use the camera after 7 days as i explain why. They do not use the phone to make photos or selfie cause they are clever. No need to waste battery for nothing. They have no equipment, nothing . But the only thing that can link them with the civilisation is those 2 smartphone. And when they left Bokete, they didnt recharge the battery 100%.
5/ There were searches during the night of the 7th to the 8th with the launch of signal rockets. A Sinaproc team remained on one of the sites all night and sent out call and light signals.
6/ fake information , It is not true. The bag was dirty and wet. And all item inside the bag was also wet.
7/ So ? I am sure that due to the conditions of life those 2 girsl were, it is very normal that they dont keep their bra.
8/ Lisanne have seen during the light signal sent by the reasearch team Sinaproc. She then try to use the camera NOT to take photos, but to try to us the flash hoping that someone could see the flash light in the middle of the darkness. Thats why she mainly put the camera in the direction of the sky . She didnt want to make any photos but to show the reasaerch team where they are wiht the flash light.
Why trying SMS or whatsapp when no signal : they try to save battery.
9/They were not supide at all. They just make the wrong decision according to me not to tell exactly where they went.
They have decided to go for pianista at the last minute, wihtout equipement, and even to go beyond the mirador .
According to me , again, thats why they try to come back despite of the night , cause nobody knew where they are and no signal to call anyone.
They have survived many days but when the reasaech team start to go beyond the Mirador, it was already vary late , many days after, and girls were already exhausted.
I blame the shool who delete them for one week cause after that, both girl decide to find things to do at the last minute and they dont have time to prepare and talk with poeple that could have told them advice regarding trail . Just took a look in website and they went to ¨Pianista " like you go for shopping in summer.
The shorts were not found folded neatly on a rock. It’s unclear how this piece of misinformation got started, but the error has been corrected multiple times, in multiple places.
This case is fraught with misinformation and errors. I think it’s the main reason it comes across sounding so mysterious. Not that it makes it any less terrifying for the girls and traumatic for their families, but it’s one of those situations that makes pretty perfect and logical sense when Occam’s Razor and its premise is applied,
Oraganzied crime has secretly been noticed by the public later on after 400 people were considered missing. In the province of chiniqí.
have been through this hundred times drove me nuts, what annoys me is one or both where alive when the search started, they went unprepared, what gets me is it's not a very nice track, screams where herd by a French couple coming from the track, a helicopter pilot said he thought he saw Skellington's on the side of the stream ?the bag clothes turned up after the reward was posted. could a child of been playing with the flash on the camera? I think that's when they search went further down the track, that guide who seems to pop up everywhere, and seems to dictate to the police the media, and he took the mother and father up the track think he found the boot, it drove me nuts best documentary for this is by a Dutch girl it's in 4 parts . lot of hearsay BS regarding this?
On one picture we can see paper used to make a SOS sign and a small handmade miror on a rock. But my question is... You also see a grey band in the front. I have a hard time to place that on any of the girls posessions, they where seen with on the other pictures from the start of the trail. What is this grey band from?
Bullshit!
Kris was sticking out her tongue in that photo
Dutch Authorities can talk to the german secretary of the language school who fled Panama once the girls disappeared
Don t tell me she doesn t want to talk about it
Check if these pictures weren t photoshopped
Big doubts about these pictures
Many say the pictures were tampered with
If she's implicated, it could show the school itself was running an entrapment enterprise
@@doriangray5750 Whether implicated or not, a serious investigation MUST HEAR her version
@@doriangray5750 they 1000% were. they had all the details for this trip ironed out 6 months in advance. then when the girls get there, all of a sudden they don't have boarding for them? these girls were dead the moment they got on that plane to Panama.
We hate not knowing. It’s the worst thing for our psyche. I just hope the girls didn’t suffer. I’m curious if there have been any more accidents or evidence of foul play reported in the area where they disappeared.
There was another fair skinned woman that was abducted either a little before or a little after this event. She escaped and found help on the trail.
There’s an excellent multi-episode podcast about this case, an investigative reporter who talked with the mother of one of the several young men who later showed up unalived in suspicious circumstances. The young man allegedly told his mom everything because he was scared for his life. The girlfriend of one of the men allegedly sought asylum in Costa Rica. I don’t think I’m permitted to link to other channels / sites. Search for lost in Panama.
That area they went missing in had 56 women disappear or murdered just in 2016 alone
After watching many videos and reading lots about the case the most likely theory imo is abduction for the purpose of organ harvesting, and if so means they were alive for several days after being abducted at the swimming pool area presumably.
Yes lots of other mysterious deaths in the area. Conversely nobody else has ever got lost and remained lost on that trail either before or after nevermind two people together. It's basically impossible to get lost there.
This is one of the top cases of all time that for me is so unsettling ...
Watched many podcast on these poor girls. You did a really great job, keep up the good work. I was a little put off to post this, because last time I did, I was threatened with loss of YT. Well, I’m gonna throw this out there, you do your own research. If you believe in psychics,I know a lot of people don’t. There is a woman, excellent psychic, her name is Slone Bella. She has a YT channel, does many readings. She has a podcast regarding the girls. Be prepared, it’s absolutely terrible, so beware. God bless the girls.
People have so many opinions on this but their camera doesn’t show any foul play whatsoever this is most baffling has to be foul play no way the photo was deleted yet the camera left there that makes no sense at all
Photo 509 holds the key to the case
The behavior of modern Americans in particular, and in this case Europeans, has irked me for some time. Young folks just saunter all over the globe assuming they have the right and the ability to go anywhere. I highly object. The conditions that existed before Western exploration are pretty much still there. It’s not Disneyland. In addition, many of these remote places harbor people living in severe poverty, most of whom have no education at all. The areas are dangerous. Don’t overestimate your abilities.
Why Osman died ? Why his mother has to make up a story to hurt the gang's reputation and his own son ? What was her motive and what she want ? I do not understand ?
Wow ! 10 years 😢…. So so sad … I feel it was the tour guide
I do too
In one of the photos the guide was doing the thumbs up pose
I think he had them so the same pose in some of their photos
I think he was compensated by either bringing them to a tribe for cannibalism or he killed them himself
He spent an hour in their room afterwards with their host after they disappeared fiddling with their computer
If they were a 14 hour walk away,the helicopter would of found them fast,the parents stated that they would never of walked down a cliff face.the bag was immaculate.how?why?camera had been down stream but still worked?
I believe they were kidnapped on the way back down the el pianista trail,i watched the henry theory,it made sense,r.i.p girls.
10 years... Wow. I hope we find out what happened someday. Has anyone considered that maybe an animal was playing with the camera?
Yes, monkeys are smart 🐒enough to use the camera 📸
Well, if that is the case, how would the animal put it back in the backpack? And the head photo was very intentionally taken. So, no!
I see this crime briefly has big purpose and days gonna prove that if it's escalated , it's an organised organ trafficking crime and kriss kremers and lissane froon have faced many creepy things by different people
there's a young woman being protected by the government. she basically knows exactly what happened and they're working on building a case
It was the Panamanian police that downloaded the SD card. They're the ones who deleted the missing photo, either deliberately or accidentally. We'll never know which.
Wrong it was a glitch when they fell.
@@markusmaier2277 🤔
@@sadakamber5843 ruclips.net/video/rdNVlQq6Lno/видео.htmlsi=PCMw1caYqpl7F8Cr
I don't know if I'm the only one but just to let you know: I'm getting seriously motion-sick from the video playing on the green screen in the background, It's like sitting in a driving car in the wrong direction. Maybe you could consider switching to something else (unless it's only me having these issues). I appreciate your face, but I'm gonna put you on audio only now.
I feel like I'm driving in reverse...😅
It is annoying.
sunlicht
in the sunlicht on bastinetos wiht five young men and two girls on the car next to the driver it is on you tup 2014
Yeah, that moving background made me dizzy. I just put in my earbuds, and couldn't look at the screen.
Untill now i was following this case,
What do you think has happened to them ?
there are people in that village know the truth,and i born in the caribean,my friends in south and central america will all tell ypou they were murderd
While I am heartbroken for these poor girls and their families, I'm also wondering why they would set off on an "adventure" like this without someone who knew the terrain, had a better plan B just on case they got lost or broke a leg etc. Cell phone coverage would've been non existent for the most part and let's not forget these are young women who are capable yes but not exactly built for a hike thru a jungle with unknown pitfalls and strange people who may want to harm them. They see 2 naive, trusting, women set off into a jungle and some assholes get ideas- it just stinks of foul play to me and some of these countries could give 2 shits what happens to European or American tourists
They were killed honestly 😢
Simply I see this crime briefly has big purpose and days gonna prove that if it's escalated , it's an organised organ trafficking crime and kriss kremers and lissane froon have faced many creepy things by different people
There actually isn't a sign on the top of the mirador warning hikers to turn around and go back.
I think there is end of trail sign somewhere there, not sure how it was back then.
This mystery has captivated me. The one photo is a pic of orbs. Not a good sign.
What does “manipulated remains “ mean?
In other videos I've seen on this case, it was reported that some of the bone fragments appeared bleached.
They were clearly placed there to be found. In the entire decade since, no other body parts of items of clothing have turned up, likely because the rest of the bodies were somewhere else entirely. Only smallish body parts found. Parts easily transported in a small day backpack. No spinal columns, rib cages, femurs or skulls etc were ever found.
@@lyndoncmp5751 No killer would risk that his DNA would be found on the bones. No foul play
@@markusmaier2277 the bones are bleached. there is no DNA to be found. even if they did find DNA, they'd need a suspect. DNA isn't just going to tell them who it belongs to.
So sad.
So sad and senseless. They had their whole life ahead. RIP Lisanne and Kris.🌻 Not sure what happened.😢
Two well educated girls are used to writing. I cant understand, they didint write any words. Very suspicious
Great presentation John. Long time fan. One question, Are you in a wagon? Seriously though this is hard to do what you're doing on these types of vids. Hats off.
Well, darn.
I was excited and hoping for new information, but this was just a regurgitation of everything we've known for years
It's seriously mysterious
@@tuckerburk8499 What's that supposed to mean? It's meaningless to me.
Another great podcast presentation however I researched other sources number one the 77 attempts to get into the phone we're performed over the lifespan of the phone not those couple days number two they can and Camera is noted for skipping a picture mechanically that is in other words it's not necessarily true that a picture was deleted I'm just giving you some different perspectives I learned a great deal from the Elisa lamb case not everything is As It Seems she lifted the latch to climb into the water tank in those girls wandered off it's very very easy to get lost you can step 10 ft off a trail and not know where you're going they were never familiar with the area and if you clearly go down the other side of the Hill there's a lot more trails so the obvious conclusion would be they became lost why would a Sinister person leave the backpack to be discovered with money in it? That's just my humble opinion thanks again for a wonderful presentation
If they got lost and perished, where are the rest of the bones and clothes? Why were kris' pelvic bone bleached white and not the others? Also why would a criminal keep evidence of the girls at his property instead of leaving it in the forrest?
@@cheebees I agree with you I'm simply speculating
I think they got lost
@@no_peace I completely agree and they were most likely washed out to sea
You can't get lost on that trail tho. It is impossible to just "step off" of it
Did photo 509 even exist? If it did it would seem very strange for the killers to leave the camera and stake so much on it not being recoverable by experts. It was certainly a double homicide, and everyone knows who did it. That guide had a reputation long before Kris and Lisanne went to Panama.
yes, it existed. it was a picture they took of themselves at caldera hot springs with the group of guys that abducted them. there was no risk, because the police deleted the picture themselves.
I thought I knew what I thought. Now I’m intrigued and confused.
I'm probably not the first to think of this but if they were conscious and not too far away, wouldn't they be yelling and making noise to attract searchers instead of playing around with the camera and phones?
Right. They were not there or already dead.
They are from my country the Netherlands
OVER Produced! Enjoyed initial videos..
I didnt mind the background🤷♀️
It sucks, there are places all around the globe that would be fun to visit/see...but sadly, most of the world is mean and dangerous. Im a grown man and there are places that i wont go or will never set foot in again because of past experiences. Fact of the matter is, young women need to realize, you cant just venture into a lot of countries expecting to be ok as we've seen it again and again, too many end up missing or worse. Most places are not as friendly as your backyard......
@@no_peace tell me you never looked at statistics without telling me you never look at statistics. Even if they did fall and get hurt, I guarantee they weren't properly prepared for the environment they were going into...happens all the time.
Agree. I think this country was not the same as what they were used to in the Netherlands. And they didn’t know.
I agree completely these days there is just craziness everywhere in the world. These girls obviously were not prepared for much at all no food not much water and no guide they should have had a guide lead them especially with them being so unfamiliar with the area. I think they got lost and succumbed to the elements after perhaps hurting themselves by accident I don’t think there is any foul play people love to say there is foul play whenever someone goes missing or is found dead. Not good
Did you even watch the footage? Kris her parents walked the trail and said it was a very well marked easy trail.
@@robbieracer3294Agree 100% and as a woman, wouldn't walk the Pianista or choose Boquete, Panama as a vacation destination. I'd have second thoughts no matter who I was going with and a quick spin around Google maps is all I need. All the window are covered with security bars and fencing. "Tourist Welcome Center" with security bars over its windows is a bit ominous. This is aside from any unexpected issues an unprepared hiker would encounter on any trail.
Second and from the Netherlands!
A lot of misinformation here. The backpack was wet and the phones were damaged. The photo got deleted by a glitch when they fell.
There is absolutely no proof that the picture got deleted by a glitch. In fact this type of camera is not known to do so. There are a lot of people that studied this specific camera and came to the conclusion that a glitch is highly unlikely. Do not talk about misinformation and spread some yourself.
By the way, you are right about the fact that the backpack was wet, with dirt inside and the phones were ruined, they had to restore them in order to get the data etc. A lot of times people talk about the backpack being in pristine condition, this is indeed not true.
@@liou1369 you are suffering from confirmation bias. there is no proof that it got deleted sure- but- there were experiments with cameras that got dropped and pics got deleted. So where is your evidence for murder?
@@liou1369 I did not. I said that there could be a glitch which is unlikely but at the same time possible, and that was shown even with the exact same model.
@@markusmaier2277 No, you said, the photo got deleted by a glitch when they fell, word for word🤣 No exactly, there isn,t evidence for any scenario, not that they got lost, injured and perished or that they were murdered. I have my opinion but nothing more then that and you have yours. How do you see the fact that they not left a message on the phone(s) or camera?
@@liou1369 As often mentioned, in a survival scenario you dont do that. Leaving a goodbye message would be a sign of resignation psychologically. Whats more, the first concern was to save battery which was running low.
Why the girls have no umbrella ?
Er, what the hell is going on at 9:39 - the picture with two red circles? I rotated the picture 180 degrees, aka upside down and actually frightened myself by what is in the dark red circle. It looks like a face… but not … is anyone else seeing this!?!
Most of them were someone pointing the camera up at the sky at nothing and you can see the top of the trees.
One more thing about the missing photo the dog blue.... now if there was a dog around you know those girls would have taken 50 photos of the dog there are no pictures of the dog which tells me the government possibly did not release all the photos however I'm clearly convinced those poor girls became lost and disoriented
I think it was only a tragic accident. The fact someone was trying to get in contact with emergency services. If they were murdered then why was someone trying to get in contact with emergency services. If they were murdered whoever murdered them would definitely not phone the police.
Was there something supernatural involved??
After seeing the picture at 9:39 in this video I really do wonder…
NO
Please, stop with the nonsense
Read the new book "Lost in Panama" from Christian Hardinghaus and Annette Nenner. It's very very good!!!!
What conclusion the book made ?
It cannot be said whether it was murder or an accident. But many questions are answered. About Feliciano or the ominous photo in the lake. It's really very interesting and I can recommend it to anyone who is interested in the fate of Kris and Lisanne.
@@chrissy5964what did they write about the lake photo?
@@markusmaier2277 read the book!!! 😉
@@Sandoz-tq7qj It cannot be said whether it was murder or an accident. But many questions are answered. About Feliciano or the ominous photo in the lake. It's really very interesting and I can recommend it to anyone who is interested in the fate of Kris and Lisanne.
ruclips.net/video/Nc5BZah_lYM/видео.html
If I would look for more answers I would start with the receptionist (from school) I guess . Who left Panamá and went back to Germany to Live with her parents as she says.
Have to agree with background. I listened like a podcast until he showed photos. It’s annoying.
It bugs me that people keep saying they got lost . It’s definitely was foul play . Tourist should be protected rather than ignore the red flags , a lot of tourist disappeared in the same area , not so long ago a female tourist was murdered .
ring camera and ring door camera
First yo
Unfortunately it's quite possible they were murdered, dismembered and threw in the river 😢
Again, another video that is nothing new!!! You should watch some videos on this topic so you can pronounce words right. Pianista means piano. The trail is like keys on a piano.
Move on instead of insulting John because he didn't cover a case YOU prefer.
This case is unsolved & could use some fresh eyes.
You're re beyond rude. 👎
@Galaxie08 Do you see a comment section?! I do so why don't you move on.!!!
Everyone under the sun has done videos about this topic, and I've watched too many to count. This guy is way behind the times, and he can't pronounce words properly.
It's my right to leave a comment if you don't like it. Keep scrolling!!!!
Maybe you should watch more videos about this topic and get back to me!!! Ha!!!!
@@michelleschandorff7238 Maybe you should show just an ounce of human decency instead of the mindset that you can say whatever you want on social media as there are no consequences.
This is not your channel, and 'this guy' has a name, and you're not John's boss.
I'm sure no one forces you to watch channels you don't like.
You saw the title--you're tired of this particular case: MOVE ON!!
Bye! 👋
@Galaxie08 LQTMS 🤣😂🤣
Didn't say I was tired of the case. I'm just tired of people repeating themselves... I thought maybe there was new news, but NO...
Go watch more of this guy's videos and bug off!!!
way can looking no body and looking on the men
??
lol people always ignore the obvious. The indigenous tribes in the jungle own the jungle.
there is a lot of BS and false information repeated in this video
The unanswered question is why did the school not want them? Was the school offer(?) a ruse for something else?
Or was strange behaviour a cue to them not being employed? If indeed they were behaving oddly. A lot of ' orange' objects being highlighted in their photos which I found a bit odd. Some sort of cult?
No honey, orange is the colour of the the nation. Look up kingsday or any international soccer game of The Netherlands
@@LiquidShivaz
I knew of William of Orange. Can't say I personally know of Orange flags at soccer as I don't generally watch such sport-with the exception of some extreme ones, very rarely Rugby & Cricket if something amazing happens in the match.
🥝🇳🇿
I still think they are highlighting that particular pinky 'coral' like orange hue for some reason whether for 'National' identity or Cultic reasons?
Lots of these 'missing' person cases have quite a bit of 😜 Kali tongue 'invocations' going on don't they? Or is that behaviour also ubiquitous now amongst younger people? Perhaps all the 👅 emojis confirm this now. Yes, could be that 'other' meaning.
@@rickh3714 All I said is very easy to find on Google. I really have not the slightest clue as of what you mean about Kali tongue, that emoji here is not connected to Kali.
As I'm Dutch myself I'm pretty aware about this case, and their people.
There is no religion, or cults involved here. Sure we use the devilshorns if we feel cheeky, we use the tongue emoji when having a blast Yay!
You're referring to something that's housing in your head, not irl as of in the case.
I'll answer those questions for you. The school did want them, just not for teaching. The school was the first part of the organ harvesting ring. They ironed out the details for this trip 6 months prior, then when the girls get there, all of a sudden they don't have boarding for them. They suggested the person that they ended up rooming with. That was the first step to start tracking them in preparation for abduction. The reddish/orange bits you're seeing are pieces of the balloons that were at the caldera hot springs, which they went to with the gang of guys that abducted them.
Background awful.. don't use again please
Play dumb games & get dumb prizes
zip it troll
except they weren't playing games. they were being targeted
Maybe it's just me, but imo the photo of the back of Kris' head looks as though it's not connected to a body...anyone else see that, or am I way off?