Journalistic Integrity
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- Опубликовано: 18 сен 2024
- Is journalistic integrity about telling the truth, or about faithfully representing one side of the story? Or is both fine, provided the audience knows which one it is?
3kliksphilip's Cloud9 HenryG video: • HenryG talked to me ab...
See the By the Numbers 149 video here: • Return Of By The Numbe...
I love how they cant believe that youre a nice guy
Edit: sending hate to these guys just shows that you arent any better yourself, so be nice everyone
That can tell you a lot about a person.
do keep in mind that both of them have been actively participating in esports and even gaming industry in general for more than 10 years. they've seen and had to deal with more (especially in the older esports times) not just disingenuous, but straight up evil, clout & money chasing fucks than almost anybody else.
@@dirty_chanterellenot a fair reason to act so childish though
It's because they believe everyone's like them and in their world niceness is not a real thing
@@davidvagnell6317 Nah. They do it for the views.
Funny to see how their only argument shown is "This guy can't be THAT nice irl, it must be an act or a paid promotion"
Shows a lot about themselves
then proceeds to talk about how nice he was at dreamhack. Very silly of Thorin
It's out of context, he did clarify that he didn't think it was malicious
The clips shown are a bit misleading if you didn't watch the whole thing. They were only pointing out how through philips pisitive nature the interview wasn't exactly asking any hard questions and pribably more of an easy pr opportunity for cloud 9. Given the world of bullshit they are coming from this purely positive coverage is certainly something unusual and if it were anyone else probably would have been paid for
Someone saying "he can't be that nice" has a similar feeling to when you're accused of hacking just because you're having a good game.
Honestly Philip, your content is one of the last online island where I feel the content produced is genuine and actually well thought, built and, organised.
You never assume bad or good from anything, but try to stay neutral and share concerns of yours.
That is what makes your content unique and what keeps me, and many others I believe, always happy to watch any of your videos, however weird and amazing it may be.
I don't often comment but idk, I just wanted to share that for you.
how do i like a comment more than once without breaking tos, because i like yours a lot
same
3kliksphilip is the most down to Earth guy
ill always watch every video of his, in the belief that it'll be fair concise and informative
I second this!
"3clipsphilip has one of the weirdest ways of talking"
Ah yes, the fabled 3clipsphilip.
And also... coming from THORIN of all people
@@sorenslothe "itwosfockinpaidyafockincuntimtalkingibberishyurblockedontwittermatefockinrightinnit" ~Thorin i guess, can't really understand what he's saying
I, for one, appreciate your way of talking. Much more than people's who exclaim HOLY SHIT in forceful excitement or claim that things they *think* are true are "hundred percent" before immediately realizing there's evidence to the contrary...
Yes, and the way he speaks makes the content very clear too. It's more centered around logic rather than hype, which I enjoy.
You say that like over exaggeration is the opposite of how Philip speaks. No hate against him but he has an odd manor of speaking, that's just reality.
For the longest time, i thought all british people spoke like phillip. As a non native english speaker, it helps to make the content clearer so i like that
@I'm just a worm He literally shows RL saying that in this video. Are you daft?
imagine being so nice that people actually can't believe that someone can be THIS nice
keep it up philip
They only say that to justify their own kindergarten-style personal attacks out of nowhere. "Weird way of talking" he pukes in the mic. What a bunch of losers.
those clips are MEGAAAA out of context
They were actually not being serious through out that part, they were roasting Kliks not actually being rude abt him.
Phil is so nice he didn't jab thorin, he just mildly pinched him
I wish I was more like Phil, don't really have that restraint. And I'm more surprised that Thorin the clown still get views.
From where Phil is usually at, this still felt like a smash in the face...makes you respect him holding back all the time even more.
Hey now, Philip paraphrasing and condensing Thorin's content? I'd watch both Thorin's original video AND Philip's paraphrasing, anyday.
Aw fuck, I can't believe you've done this
I never thought that kliksphillip way of speaking was weird, for someone that was learning English you spoke so well and so clearly that I thought all English people spoke like you... If only it was real
i know, right? thorin was basically accusing philip of being well-spoken.
he speaks like an educated person, something thorin and rich seem to not be
Eating while watching a kliksphilip video, living my best life.
Maximum comfort
phil provides great content that i can have in the background or when i'm actively watching i love it too!
@@RajA-jw7dd unfortunately, no
"No one's that nice!" awww
That was greatly odd
Telling ey?
Thorin wouldnt know “being Nice” if it hit him in the face. Fucking idiot.
Actually there are. And they are the ones asking you to get into the van, drink this kool-aid, or asking you to report on your friends/family to the "authorities".
No one, is that nice. No one.
@@nopenope1510 this comment is kinda sad :(
Two men claiming Philip sounds like a paid shill, while having half their screen filled with a Patreon link and NordVPN ad is really funny to me
They never claimed it was paid, they said it was weird that henryg wasn't even in that "interview" and it felt like it was paid promotion but he would had to disclose it so it wasn't, they made some jokes about format of it and that's it
@@altzu implied what?
@@RikitoG implied that philip was paid by C9
learn to take jokes, you'll have more fun in life
@@RikitoG you can stop licking that ginger's boot now mate
Duncan thinks kliksphilip talk weird? I find Philips voice very calming
Thorin voice is 5 times more weird
Thorin has the sort of accent that makes a Brummy wince
the way thorin talks is soo weird, he sounds like he is always malding
them not beeing able to believe that someone is "that nice" speaks more about them then about yourself. I love how you always give insight in your thoughts in a very well structured and profound way. Thank you for your work :)
They both have rough childhoods, despite which they managed to succeed. Doesn't excuse them, but it makes their beliefs more understandable.
I follow all 3. This feels like a massive culture clash that could be cleared up by a simple chat and a drink.
Fighting might get a load of views for all parties involved but I don't think it's going to help anything else.
@@MrDucktastic If they're repulsed by nice guys, there's no fix :D All they can go on is that Philip should have known his video would send hate their way.
@@prawtism I would say that RL & Thorin have had to contend with a lot of horrible elements compared to Phillip. I'm not holding it against them to be a little bitter and mistrusting. For example, RL has spent the past month getting death threats because he had the audacity to criticise Navi, he's currently having to work with the FBI over match fixing in NA CSGO etc. He doesn't do himself any favours and he's a bit self destructive but he does good work.
Meanwhile Phillip makes nice wholesome content exploring games. RL & Thorin spend their time working in an esports scene filled with charlatans and cheaters. I guess the lesson is stay away from esports and keep your sunny disposition. ^_^
It's interesting to see how people saw that video as a puff piece, and don't complain about tv interviews. Of course a guy involved with cloud9 is going to be positive about cloud9 when asked.
No... we complain about those videos.
60 minutes just did one of those "TV interviews" that you're talking on Hunter Biden... 3klicks comes off as no different.
Just a fluffer, schilling out for other's he doesn't know in an attempt to get some fame himself.
I love the clip at the end. It’s so needlessly mean to The point of being comical
He has a looooong history of being a PoS.
Homophobic "jokes", as in insults, to people working in the esports industry. Racist comments about polish people when the major was hosted there a few years back. Often interacted with blatant white nationalists on twitter.
I'm leaving a lot out because I don't bother making room for people like him, but seriously I don't know how the fuck he has any respect in the community.
Also funny, he made League of Legends esports content when he's barely played the game and seriously didn't understand it, was a running joke.
@@L1vingAshlar any examples of interacting with white nationalists?
The polish joke was making fun of poland as living place not polish people but ok
So you're saying he wanted to get into league and made some content and he was just begining to understand the game in the process? madness indeed
@@RikitoG Bro you're not doing yourself any favours by defending this kinda behaviour
@@Otzkar what exactly im defending? im asking to provide proof that he supports white nationalists
Love that asking for proof and correcting false statements is now defending someone
Thorin saying others have a weird way of talking is like dog poo telling you that you smell bad.
It's insane how despite how careful you are with the words you use in order for your intentions never to be misunderstood, some people will just ignore them and make assumptions. It's also insane, in a positive manner, how calm you can remain to that. I really appreciate your way of speaking, you are as honest as you can be.
6:27 LOL! The irony!
Imagine a Geordie talking about using a "weird way of talking"!
@@thunderslug1066 Indeed. There are always some.
he's from sunderland no?
@@timmasters1195 Close enough, they're all filthy southerners tae me!
Eh, those reprobates (The likes of Shields anyway) are all the same to me and whose only purpose in life is shit-talking everybody else with their inhuman tongue. And somehow being smug about the only thing going for them in their wretched lives is claiming northwesterners and Yorkshire folk are somehow not 'northern enough' and they are the only northerners to ever exist. (Iirc Philip is southwestern, I know, but that aforementioned thing really ticks me off and I felt like I had to mention)
Also in retrospect I hope it doesn't come across as an attack on all northeasterners as there's quite a few who are sound
Philip's voice is so soothing and even drives me to speak in a well-spoken, if with a broad accent, manner and I will actively put it out there. And I am not even saying this because I have been a big fan of his for a long time. Also who tf cares if he can be a bit awkward at times?? Lots of us are.
Philip never stop making videos, I really enjoy them and you are really talented. Thanks for all your great videos and keep going 🙏
Imagine having an accent like Duncan and still have the nerves to make fun of how other people speak.
Your personality and the way you speak is why we watch your videos. I don't care all that much about cs updates etc but i still enjoy every video you upload
I literally don't play CS, I don't want to play CS, but I watch every video Philip uploads because I like his content/personality/voice. It's also interesting to hear his thoughts about stuff like game development and mapping (especially game dev, cuz it's fascinating how he uses what seems like a relatively basic and outdated engine to make such complex games)
thorin: "eas got a weeeeaaaairdest waes o fokin' toakin' "
having met 3kliksphilip 3 times at the same major I can attest that he really is that nice irl
lul at the roast at the end.
Duncan Shields, a man known around the world for having a dreadful voice and accent, laughs at someone else's way of talking. Nice
I rewatched the cloud 9 video , literally the majority (60-70%) of sentences contain 'he' or HenryG.
I hear nothing but straight talking facts
Imagine being "flamed" for being too nice of a person. What a joke. Keep doing you, Philipio.
It's also super weird to hear him talk about your way of talking like that. Such a weird take. You're very pleasant to listen to!
I still don't understand how you called your own music depressing (reference, one of the music kit vids). I've always liked your music every time I've heard it, and now knowing there's an alternate perspective to it, I still can't find it. Also, I learned some things just by watching this. Like, how there are assumptions by association when someone's voice is used irregardless of context. I may or may not be guilty of this myself, but I was certainly not aware about this... logical process?.. until now. Thank you by the way :)
You where one of the first international youtubers to use english subtitles for ALMOST all your videos, and back then my english skills wern't that great. But thanks to you I've learned alot. Out of topic but I'd thank you for that and that I never EVER doubt about your integrity.
Both Richard Lewis and Thorin are very opinionated people, so they can't fathom how a person can be this neutral, I presume. Regardless, it's wrong to berate someone the way RL & Thorin did simply because you don't understand their POV.
6:32 LMAO
you're just a genuine nice guy
Didnt think RLewis and Thooorin would react that way after seeing your video, I do not feel you came off as a shill at all, I never have with a single video. Ridiculous reaction from the both of them. Thank you for being you, Philip.
Thorin is an interesting personality. He describes himself as the 'esport historian', yet is extremely assertive and always pushes for his narratives. He produces a lot of content that are precious (for instance, he interviews older esport players, which is really cool) yet it always seem to revolve around his ''vision'', not so much about understanding others. Just weird...
But one thing is certain: he should watch more '5 minutes with phil' in order to learn valuable lessons on concision.
"Hello Thorin have you been enjoying the event?" That just called being polite, I dont get why anyone see's this as a weird thing to say??????????1????
It's not what he said it's how he says it
Thanks for adding subtitles, I couldn't have understood what they were saying clearly without them. :)
After watching your end of 2021 video, and then revisiting this particular video, i really can't understand how the drama even began. There was no malicious attacks to anyone at all, none that i could see at least. For me, the main message about this video was mainly how philip wanted to approach that video, clear out possible misunderstandings and perhaps improve if the opportunity arises again.
Internet dramas never cease to be dumb, never worth the damage they always cause.
Thanks for being a nice guy, when people think you can't be "that" nice then at least someone is making the world a better place
"3klipsphilip has one of the weridest ways of talking, ever..."
i couldn't even understand any of their words without subtitles
They aren't wrong, nothing against Philip and I would never criticise him for it, but the way he speaks(not the accent which I think you're suggesting) as in the choice of words and sentance flow is unusual. Again I would never criticise him for it but it's true.
That’s because you don’t speak English, mate.
@@Anon.G The downside of reading from a script instead of using notes and/or going off of the top of your head
@@MrPhilip796 I've heard Philip talk without a script before too, just as thorin also has.
@@Anon.G Doesn't mean that talking like that for years on end for videos has no effect on your speech outside of videos?
I love the drama on this channel ... Phil excusing for : Doing stuff properly, being 99% correct, being too nice ... cant wait for next video when someone makes fun of him because he saved the universe ...
"Hello Thorin, have you been enjoying..."
But-- I talk like this in real life too-- what kind of sociopaths does Thorin surround himself with that purity comes across suspicious?
The esports industry as a whole, that's what.
It's not uncommon for people to adjust their voice when doing some sort of broadcast. RL and Thorin both talk about adopting a more conventional british accent when they're on TV than what they grew up with, and even like Warowl puts on a voice for his videos too
Well to be fair, thorin naturally fights the bad guys in this industry every day. That's not easy and would make everyone bitter. Our community isn't helping aswell, how dare he being directly when faced with scrutiny...
@@HaasTheFirst interesting insight
As someone who follows the By the Numbers podcast, Richard Lewis and Thorin are always dealing with the worse people you can imagine in the esports scene, so they are just being extremely skeptical and I believe guarded towards the idea that someone would a long interview out of pure passion for the game. I wouldn't take their comments as personal attacks, they can seem overly abrasive, but it is somewhat a part of the act and the show, at least it seems like that to me.
As a side point I would really like to see the whole interview with Henry, while I think the condensed version was good, it was strange to listen to a paraphrased version of the interview without it being stated in the title or description as being paraphrased.
Anyway I'm sorry you had do this video, big props from a long time viewer.
Nah Phillip, ignore them. Love the way you talk, that's one of your selling points to me. Keep up your videos 😍
True integrity and honesty can be so intimidating to those who aren't used to it being pure.
This and that videos gold bruv. Thank you for them and keep doing things your way, that's why we're here.
Thorin's implication that Philip might not be as nice as he lets on actually doesn't even make sense, now that I think about it. What would be his motive? I think, if anything, history has shown that being hyperbolic and rude are much more effective ways of acquiring online attention.
I watch your content because I enjoy your way of informing you audience, as it comes off as honest, genuine, and well-spoken. Thanks for doing what you do, as you've inspired me to have a more mature outlook on life, and to try to see issues from others' perspective.
Oh my goodness! This is perfect and also sums up my experience with Richard Lewis: there was a specific not by the numbers episode, I dont remember the number but I think it was 2 years ago now, I was a big fan of thorin and Richard but this one episode they were just abusing a csgo player they don't personally like to a degree which I felt went too far and was actually past the point of acceptable. In the comments I called them out, saying that what they were doing was mobilising their fans to join them in online bullying and it wasn't acceptable behaviour from two community leaders. Richard lewis replied within minutes saying if I dont like it dont watch, but sarcastically thanked me for the view on the video though my comment "didn't mean anything because I am a nobody who will never amount to anything in life". I had politely questioned their motives in my comment, even saying I was a massive fan but coildnt support what they were doing in the video as I had felt they went too far... to get such a toxic response...there were a further two responses, the first in which I pointed out he has no idea who I am and has no information on which to base his abusive comment but that it didn't matter who I was as I was a loyal viewer like which is the backbone of their income. His next reply was another insulting barrage of abuse calling me a nobody who's opinion means nothing, he insulted my google account handle and tried to incent others to abuse me in comments. I gave a then short reply calling him a narcissist with nowhere near as much real world importance he he assumes and he then deleted my comments. Since this I have boycotted Richard Lewis and not watched anything associated with the guy. Truly a pathetic narcissist and a weak excuse for a human being.
When I saw this BTN episode, I took it as them just taking the piss and having a bit of fun. I encourage everyone to watch the full context of the clip, I don’t think any of this really needed to happen.
Same. Only thing I can say is the "paid interview" was cut out of context because he stressed he knew it wasn't but it seemed so much that way.
Yeah this whole thing is a shitshow, Philip misrepresented the BTN episode by removing the parts where RL says that Philip *couldn't* have been paid because it would have been disclosed it if he was. Then, while this video is primarily a discussion of Philip's thoughts on his interview format, there is a suggestion that RL had falsely accused him of being a shill, which RL mistakenly decided was the focus of the "journalistic ethics" part of the title. Then, everyone's just been publicly dunking on each other and taking shitpost jokes to heart. It's honestly pretty stupid all around.
Watching this again a couple of years later it's still astonishing to me how anyone could have interpreted his video as a personal attack. To me these two lost all their credibility with this absurd drama. It's kind of scary how easy it is to be the target of a shitstorm for no apparent reason. I'm honestly glad my livelihood does not depend on RUclips.
philip making a video to respond to a single other video? this is something he takes seriously
It's probably not nice being called out for being who you are
It's pretty annoying to get wrongfully called out by the manchild duo. Understandable, especially when Philips integrity was called into question.
Kinda surprised to see how many people thinking Richard and Thorin were being completely serious about every word they said.
They thought the video was weird (which it is, it's an interview with Henry G without him actually being in it at all) and made some jokes about it.
Them mentioning "he would have had to disclose it" is a sign that they know it WASN'T paid for, it's just such a weird video that it FEELS like it was.
You are one of the top quality video creators! Never change pls Phillip
It's ok Philip. You can't control how everyone perceives your content to full extent. And that's fine. Though I gotta admit, the clip at the end was hilarious
i believe in these days everything anyone produces video about a topic that is even a little bit controversial, it is going to spark situations like this. you can try to make it less likely to happen, but always someone will be able to find a part to take out of context, missunderstand etc. causing 'drama'
What you should know is we love your videos and most of us probably understand your intentions and know you try your best to show things in fair, objective way, without trying to harm anyone.
:)
I really enjoyed your cloud9 video. I appreciated the fact that it was your summary of what Henry said rather than a full interview style video because it meant that the video was short enough that I could easily watch rather than some interview videos which run into multiple hours.
That HenryG video was great, I'm glad you make this kind of content
It seems weird to speculate now that everything's died down but is there a possibility that they were seething about you stepping on their toes with your journalistic venture? Seems like a plausible reason why they were triggered
It did cross my mind, but seemed more likely they're just thin skinned and didn't want to back down once they realised they were wrong.
@@kliksphilip never change philip. tell your brothers too.
It’s annoying how dismissive Thorin and Richard are.
How dares Philip be so polite and nice.
As a non-native speaker, it is very funny how they criticise you for "weird way of talking".
I can get every word you say just fine, but had to re-listen to what they were saying a few times to get it
It's like they are criticising you for putting effort in talking clearly, why?
I love the way you talk philip, it's calming and I always look forward to one of your videos ❤️
It's 7 am Philip. Thanks you ♡
flipopl
Yume nikki??+?!?!?!?+?!?@*@€$&÷,÷8×(!
Phlippip
Ayyy! East Coast gang!
I appreciate the apparent consistency in your style, opinions, and values. To me, consistency is the most important quality of any journalist. That extends to any figures with opinions to share on just about anything. Including youtubers who make videos because they want to :)
I believe that you are a wonderful and consistent voice in the csgo community regardless of what you talk about. Keep doing your thing
We love the way you talk! don't let the haters get to you
These days, the balance between cynisism and gullibility is such that its quite difficult to tell where a story belongs to. Not everyone in this world is around to gobble up cash as if it was for the second coming of the messiah. Some are genuinely here just to showcase ideas as they are, with no strings attached.
But then again, those that seek to manipulate also try to show a facade of humility. Take for example the many subtle 'astroturf' style advertisements on reddit. They openly advertise a product as with a personal story to blend in with the rest of the 'people like you and me made content', but... In the same vein, could that story simply be that a person enjoys the product and wants to advertise for free to share his good experiences?
Truth on the Internet is complicated. Its nature varies from group to group, individual to individual, lens to lens.
Great video.
That Thorin clip at the end got me good.
Weird. I've never really considered your content to be overly "nice", just thoughtful. I can understand why Thorin thinks it's weird because I don't think he has a mode of being other than unapologetically raw and unfiltered. Sometimes that's fun too, but it gets boring fast if that's all someone does - he's a bit of a one-trick pony and gives me a weird vibe, like he couldn't possibly laugh at himself despite doing the same to others. I do like Richard Lewis, but I don't ever watch his show with Thorin.
You are a great youtuber and now journalist philip, just keep doing you!
"No one is that nice, grow up"
This sentence bugs me... a lot.
The fact people misconstrue Philip's way of speaking and video structure, geared towards integrity and clear division between opinion and fact, as being in some way disingenuous is a shame. I suppose it is a symptom of how much trust has been lost in the face of the more casual journalism carried out online (I struggle to use the word journalism to describe content which is jumbled mess of opionion and fact.)
I really appreciate Philip's style of content.
Edit: Spelling
Yeah from an American perspective Richard and Duncan went from having a bit of a laugh to being a bit rude about you just for being a nice person
Firstly, I don't think Richard or Thorin actually believe for the video to have been paid for, simply that had it been someone else, that would've been the assumption.
That's a sentiment that, as a guy very interested in the esport scene, I can share, orgs obviously want good publicity and "influencers" can usually get a good amount of views from pieces such as this one. The presentation of your video, while understandable with your explanation, is certainly unusual. It's an interview, where we never get the actual words from the interviewee.
Secondly, for all the people offended at Thorin's jokes at the end of the video, well, yea that's what he does. He makes fun of people for his own entertainment and if you don't like it I can't blame you.
I really don't think that, or the "no one's that nice" line are to be taken any seriously at all, it was mainly for fun, especially that both of them are friends with HenryG, so making fun of him by proxy was part of the point of what they did.
TLDR: are they rude? Certainly. But I don't think they meant to disparage the integrity of that video, only its form, which to them, rose the question of integrity.
Love your content, never even thought this could be a thing. My god, you are one of the last RUclipsrs that would take such a deal.
"no one can be that nice" says the strangler
how does anyone even give a shit about what richard L and Thoorin say.. Like come on it's 2021 and they have talked shit for the last 20 years or something. How can they still be relevant
richard and thorin are always looking for negatives in everything regardless of the topic.
i saw the video as something of an academic abstract like you get before a paper in a journal
i’m not interested enough in C9 to read/ watch a full interview with HenryG but i was curious enough to watch a short summary of his thoughts. it would have been much worse if the video had heavily edited footage/ audio of the interview as then it would seem cheap
i really appreciate the efforts you take to making your content bitesize and enjoyable, but i also totally see the argument that you change what's being said in doing so, even if neither you or HenryG realise. also, you said it yourself about the BCI video; people might watch your summary and be interested enough to watch the whole thing. the best solution, imo, is to record the entire conversation, and link to an unlisted upload of that full recording in your summary video. you're more transparent about the content you're summarising, and you accommodate everyone's viewing habits
You are so polite man, I respect that.
Gosh, how embarrassing. It's like the haven't grown up since comprehensive/high school.
Can't wait for Thoorin's reply to this.
6:16 ohhh, shits getting real!
6:24 as a wise man once said.
brutal, savage, rekt
Hearing a youtuber you like get insulted really activates that tribal part of my brain. Partically the comment about no one being that nice. It's kinda sad that someone just making polite factual statements is so nice in his view that it can't exist.
that last clip was golden
Wtf they're coming at my boi Phils life, I personally love the way you talk and your videos are always informative and entertaining. You're always very fair and honest in what you present in them. Some people just love talking shit I suppose
Hadn't even realised the hate against you for this video - you're being openly true and genuine and it scares them, it's sad to see
Thorin and RL just cannot comprehend that you can be nice and have integrity at the same time.
It's nice to see Philip defending himself. Thorin is a knob.
Outclassed
It was a solid interview in my opinion. It's just a shame that people on the internet always want to make a fuss about anything.
That being said, watching those Thorin clips was very painful tho
It really feels painful for HenryG I would feel horrid. Also I learned that I want to be someone like Phil and not like Thorin. I feel like I'm more like Throin which makes me sad.
Hey Philip, I enjoy your style of videos, especially the way you report on subjects I'm not invested in myself or know little about. Your videos about the BCI or Vacnet are prime examples of what concise reporting should be. Same goes with the cheater interview. You conveyed enough information for me to not have to watch an hour long video. Even if I find the topic interesting myself, I don't feel like I missed out on anything after watching your videos compared to the original. Thanks for your content!
That burn at the end. Nice one Philip
They like to banter, its quite important, what i took from it is that they think its quite special phillip is that nice and that its not something they encounter alot.
Why does he say grow up though? Not very good banter, not funny, sounds like projection of his own insecurity (under the guise of banter) and he can just say aw that was a joke (when actually it's what he thinks)
@@xDRAGONSHAGGERx sometimes banter is just banter and not a guise.
Thorin and Lewis thrive off their own toxicity. Two old bitter Dude who missed their lifes.