Is Lord of the Rings: The Rings of the Lord of the Power Ringlords worth watching?
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- Опубликовано: 24 июл 2024
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Hey you gays. What did you think? *one more thing* I really wanna point out how I kinda hate the "what's the difference between a rock a boat" line. It's clumsy and weird. You're allowed to hate it, but also I swear to God if you can't express your opinion without using the term 'culture war' I am going to lose it. SECOND CHANNEL tinyurl.com/ybhtz42g for more RoP/House of the Dragon/book reviews/rants/rambles/puppies
~ Tim
So . . . question. Why did you allow the one dudes social info, but not Nerdarotic? Does the channel name trip some kind of youtube censor thing?
Do you really want to hurt me? ✨🌟
Yes!
-Culture War Club
It's just straight up garbage is all I know. Critical Drinker went over it and nailed why its.
@@momomomocensoredbyyoutube9085 have you even watched a single second of another review by him?
Remember when you streamed the trailer a while back and you implied we were racist for saying this show didn’t look good? Sad.
Concerning Galadriel, my own gripes with her characterization has less to do with her being some ass-kicking warrior, and more to do with how the narrative seems to portray her as this YA underdog protagonist being held back by domineering elders. The character feels a bit mishandled in that regard, considering she's in fact one of the eldest of the Noldor left in Middle-Earth by this point. Elrond is practically an infant compared to her, yet they seem to be shown more as peers.
Like, by this point in time, Galadriel would be busy establishing her own kingdom, something she explicitly came to Middle-Earth to do, rather than simply be another subject of Lindon. The whole 'Young spitfire' character would ironically be better utilized for Celebrimbor, who weirdly enough looks old enough to be Morfydd Clark's grandpa.
Exactly! It's so weird older actors for younger elves! And this Galadriel would work well in the first age, but in the second... It's weird.
Yeah, I feel like she's a young kid with something to prove, when that couldn't be farther from the truth. She's somewhere between 5000 and 20,000 years old already (depending on what the scaling from the Time of the Trees is supposed to be), and she was so beloved and respected that Feanor sought a boon from her, and she rejected him. She defied the Valar and left Aman to establish a kingdom. To me, her great sin is pride, and her character arc is, over the course of 7000 years across the three ages, to discover that power and influence isn't all it's cracked up to be, to finally humble herself, and, after all that time, to reject power in the form of the Ring, allow herself to diminish, and return to Aman. She can be a warrior in that character arc. But she can't be dismissed, she can't be sidelined, she will always be prominent. Not many elves in Middle Earth in the Second Age had seen the light of the Two Trees, and Galadriel would already be revered as a member of the royal house of the Noldor who had lived in that light in Aman. So I don't really like that aspect of her portrayal.
On the other hand, while I believe her portrayal does somewhat undermine her character arc and its contribution to the essential themes of power and humility in Tolkien's work, it doesn't truly undermine the themes themselves, so I won't say it's a horrible abomination or anything like that.
Oh, and I respect her actress immensely, who evidently did her research, judging by what she said about the elves of the First Age.
Right?! I remember reading the Silmarillian and hearing that she was the only student of the greatest sorceress for the side of good, and became an awesome sorceress herself way back in the first age. She's already way older and revered by the end of the first age. Why is she acting like some rando young warrior?
I fully agree. I'm not only ok with having her as a more rugged/warrior style character, because that wouldn't really be out of what she could have been at one point. As Nadia said, it would have been more 1st than 2nd age, but at least it would be more or less in character. I resento much more the blandness, the generic nature of her "wild YA boss girl" design... she feels super generic; like an off-brand Mulan or something like that. If they had mixed in her actually know traits, like her political ambitions or her leader qualities (which are actually neglected... since her soldiers basically go full mutiny on her), it would have been a really cool character; much more complex than pointy-ears simplified Mulan.
My issue with her is that her action and choices don't reflect her position. For a commander she does endanger her squad a lot. Abandoning them when ever possible.
That is NOT. A leader for me. I can't imagine her ruling a kingdom in the future.
I expect that she will grow as a person. But before that it's just odd how she can be this reckless and selfish but get such a high ranking.
The writers should know that these position is not just given cause people are one man soldiers right? There's more to that.
Some things that bothered me:
1. The conflict in every scene. It’s a new Hollywood trope that every scene has to have conflict. I first noticed it with the Star Wars sequels. One of the things I love about Tolkien’s work is how he writes kindness. In this show, people are cruel to each other as if it’s a George RR Martin story.
2. The Elves with Galadriel getting the Redshirt Army treatment. This bothered me in the movies too. Tolkien usually writes his “unnamed good guy soldiers” as being pretty competent. Not a fan of them getting ragdolled and Galadriel killing the troll with 5% effort. These guys were never established as competent fighters so it makes them look pathetic rather than making Galadriel look strong.
3. Lore changes. Why is the Lay of Leithian treated like some horrible tragedy? Beren and Luthien basically got the happiest ending of anyone in the First Age. Finrod’s motivation is also changed and separated from Beren/Barahir.
4. Elrond writing Gil Galad’s speeches is cringe. Makes it seem like Gil Galad is a bit scrappy/ineffective.
5. No mention of the Valar existing as an actual physical force in the world. Valinor is treated kind of like an afterlife rather than a physical place in Arda so far. That’s a problem for obvious reasons to anyone who has read the Quenta Silmarillion.
Sone things I liked:
1. The music is good. Bear McCreary did a good job.
2. The visuals are good. It has good production values
3. Elrond and Arondir are nice. I could see this Elrond becoming Elrond in The Hobbit.
4. The show gets the Dwarf aesthetic right, IMO.
No mention of the Valar but the two trees and Morgoth’s actions are depicted? Damn. I’m really not going to watch this dung heap of a series.
@@funkyboy_22 They didn't even do THAT right as Ungoliant was apparently completely written out of the whole Two Trees ordeal, and she is like SUPER important to a whole bunch of stuff that happens later from all the stuff with the Silmarils to birthing the Sheloth character from the LoTR...
@@funkyboy_22 I think this show is going to suffer heavily for lack of access to the Silmarillion and Unfinished Tales.
The Second Age feels very much like a “sequel” to the first age. Valinor still played an important role in the story. This show feels like it’s just going to try to cut out the connections to the Elder Days.
Cruel?? Really? Are we watching the same show?
I think the reason why every scene has conflict in modern cinema is partially a fault with short videos like tic Tok or RUclips shorts. Everything worth watching deserves to be built up and not just throwing ideas and waiting for something to stick
"it's undoubtedly strongest in its quiet, slowest moments" is a good statement for lord of the rings in general. it's made by its softest moments; aragorn's promise to boromir and the affection and sam recalling the shire at the foot of mount doom are two that immediately come to mind. sure, the battle scenes are epic and the lighting of the beacons is iconic, and there's a real sense of power to those scenes, but it's made all the more impactful by those little moments that humanise the characters and make us really feel for them. lord of the rings was never meant to glorify battle or war, it was meant to demonstrate its impact on regular people. i really hope rings of power doesn't forget that
soft worldbuilding > hard world building
Can you send me the Discord link I've been looking for it
Thank you for being 100% upfront about Amazon contacting you with an offer to pay you for your review. I wonder how many other creators I follow have taken that money and whatever strings were attached to it.
“This is not how I would have done it” vs. “This is bad” and those being two different things is such a REFRESHING and WONDERFUL sentiment.
You mean bullshit saying "I am not going to commit because I saw there are people in both camps so I try to pander to all of them somehow"
Its the difference between looking at what is Vs what ought to be
@@momomomocensoredbyyoutube9085 Yeah, but I'm feeling sort of aggressive myself when I see someone I respected sell out. It would have been better to say nothing. Now I have to grapple with the fact that either Tim is incapable of seeing how bad this show is (and what a crime it is against Tolkien and what he stood for), or that he's willing to take artificial stances in an attempt to please everyone. The world is increasingly grim, and not even the camaraderie of reading and writing folk is left unscathed.
To be honest, I'm not the biggest Tolkien head in the world, but from the people that are and this video alone, I can say they're not to enthused about appealing to hardcore fans and I'm not to enthused as part of the "everybody" crowd to watch. I think that's what you call a sour start.
@@kentjensen4504 did you even watch the video? Tim was asked by Amazon to make videos, and when he said “you will not control what I say” they ghosted him. So he’s not being paid to say any of this by Amazon. It’s also okay to have incomplete thoughts and some parts you enjoy and others you don’t enjoy in a single work that make you feel conflicted. Enjoyment and opinion exists on a spectrum. He is being very genuine and you can see in his face he hates feeling conflicted but he’s sharing that with us, which is nice.
I really think Amazon dropped the ball with the Rights situation. Giving writers enough to make a show, but not enough that they can actually connect the dots, without making up a bunch of stuff, is so puzzling to me.
Yeah, like them having Melkor destroy the Trees because they couldn't use Ungoliant.
The Tolkien estate will simply not sell them.
They should've at least hired better dialogue writers, honestly. But hey, the visuals are cool. Doesn't feel Tolkien-y when it's not the full shot landscapes, but cool for a generic fantasy.
The rights are not available. Tolkien estate wouldn't sell them. And it was not Amazon who sought to make the series, it was the Tolkien Estate which asked the different TV studios to bid, and later pitch the ideas to select the story.
Well the writers weren't seasoned enough to learn how to connect said dots
I still don’t know what I think about the rings of power. I feel as though they’ve gotten the elves characterization completely wrong. To me they do not feel at all like Tolkien’s elves. There’s a moral grayness that people seem to want in characters today. Tolkien‘s elves of the first and second age demonstrate this grayness in spades, but the rings of power seems to completely remove this, removing all blame in their leaving of Valinor and all need for repentance in their return. Given the limited licensed material they had for the show, this may be what middle earth would be absent the Kin Slaying and a full understanding of the Silmarils.. The Silmarils are mentioned in the appendices but Kin Slaying is not. The motivation of the elves seems to be gutted. Tolkien’s elves are defined by their history. After the death of the trees, the elves are defined by the long defeat, their own guilt, and their exile. This depth seems to be absent. This is what I’ve found to be most off putting so far.
Finally someone who puts into words what I've been trying to explain to myself and others about the elves in RoP. Thank-you, that's exactly what's wrong about this show. It does not feel true to Tolkien's depiction of elvish culture and history.
Thank you! I can't bring myself to watch it. I was so excited to watch this until I found out that Amazon never got the rights to The Simarillion. That is a story to adapt. I was salivating at getting to watch elves be something less angelic and wise. But since we aren't covering that, it's very much "what's the point?" For me.
@@jessjess23brooks89 funny enough i found the similarion book at my house. I had a cousin who read tolkien and has most if not all the books. They are scattered around the house (in storage or in a closet).
I found the simmilarion in a room randomly. 👀🤔 my reaction was; this thw book everyone in the comments of RoP keep talking about
@@zephyrias Read it!
@@zephyrias read it alongside the many great audio books out there. Some even have great ambience to go along with it and amazing voice acting. Great one is called Phoenix Cast. A RUclips channel
One scene I LOVED was when the orc attacked. We are so used to seeing Aragorn, Gimli and Legolas slaying orcs by the hundred, that it's nice to see an orc through the eyes of a normal human family - a terrifying and formidable foe
Exactly
It kinda reminded me of Evil Dead and it was fun as hell
Yessss it makes orcs scary, formidable for the untrained!
The only problem is that the cast is so unlikable I was cheering for the orc.
@@fantasy9917 sadly as someone who always felt like the other, when playing the lotr games or just larping in my head as a kid, I always rooted or played as the orcs or the "evil men", mainly the Easterling since I thought their armor in two towers was so bad ass. Lol Also being of swarthyish complection, I felt it fit more. 🤣
@@Deadly_fox512 Oh yeah, I was also always the orc to be slain 20 times over in our children fencing matches :D I was really good at dying.
I think Amazon with their endless wealth could have easily pooled funds into a new Tolkien-inspired high fantasy story instead of this. But it's only at 2/8 right now so it can get better later. That being said, the dwarves had the best scenes.
I don't expect betterment either, but I have disagree on the Dwarves. True, I also think they are the best here, but that doesn't make them good. All Dwarves seem to be the 1 dwarven stereotype of loud, drunk and simple.
Define “ideological differences”
@@Mediados Very true, both Durins (III and IV) as well as Disa seemed exclusively lound, drunk, and simple. Also only saw loud drunk and simple dwarves guarding the gates of Khazad Dum and working in the fields and mining and blah blah blah you get the point (or don't, idk you seem pretty dumb)
They have the Wheels of Time, right?
No, this is 5/10 show. Yes, it sucks as in plot-writing, and is completely detached from any Tolkien lore. But if you just consider it a AU fanfiction - it is pretty good, and I dare say - enjoyable.
I am convinced that the writers for the Rings of Power never actually read any of Tolkien's works. They just watched the Peter Jackson movies and thought, "I can one up this".
Considering they actually nailed a lot of tiny details that were lore accurate, I’d disagree.
They know the lore. Likely had many experts weighing in. Educating them. They just purposely deviated.
Well the show is miles ahead of The Hobbit movies so they were right in that regard at least
This is an absurd accusation to make for a show that tackles head-on the Problem of the Orc, which Tolkien struggled to settle his entire life.
"It is okay for a Story to just be okay"
That is wonderful. I feel that often these days stories have to be perfect in every detail otherwise they are marked as bad. But there is a range from excellent to horrible and most stories are somewhere inbetween.
I agree. This show, as beautiful as it is, has some unfortunate flaws:
1 RoP lacks a strong narrative through line around which to build momentum - it cuts between so many characters to do so much set up, that you don't really get to care enough about the characters. Even two episodes in, I'm not 100% certain what this series is about. The forging of the rings? Probably, that's in the title.
2 Too much exposition delivered in a clunky way - We could have gotten the backstory of Galadriel's brother's death as she was going through the northern ruins of Sauron's keep. That 11 minutes of starting exposition could have been integrated throughout the series to maximize the emotional impact of each piece of information.
3 Focusing scenes that serve the story - Did we need the scenes with a snow troll or a sea monster? Action sequences - like everything else - should matter to the narrative. If you ask, "What's the best way to show Galadriel's obsession with ending Sauron's evil?" You probably wouldn't have written the scene with the snow troll.
4 Making all the elements make sense for the world. Why did Elrond and the forge-master show up to Khaza Dum wearing the same clothes and on foot? The map showed us they had to cross a considerable distance, so they did so in the same day and on foot? Also, where was Galadriel keeping her sword all that time she'd apparently decided to swim across an entire ocean? Why is this elf falling in love with this human? Internal logic seems lacking.
Fair points all of them. Agreed that the Khaza Dum scenario was really dumb and cheap (I recall in the first clip it looks as if the spoken dialogue does not even match the movement of their mouths). Also the "aging parent" seems like a very odd metaphor for an elf to use... Lets hope such issues are sorted out at least before the second season!
But the most nonsensical was the culture of the haarfoots as portrait in episode three.
Can you send me the discord link I've been looking for it
The first time the stranger shouted to the "Halflings" the lights went darker as it happened with Gandalf and Bilbo when he wrongly accused Gandalf of trying to steal his ring. I unfortunately think he's going to be Gandalf, and we're looking at the reason why he will probably likes the Hobbits one day.
So the reason he would appeciate Hobbits a lot is only because they're the first people he met ? That's a really bad origin story.
@@BIackstrength Why is that bad?
He does the whispering thing to the fireflies like Gandalf to the moth in Fellowship, too.
I’m hoping it’s a fake-out and he’s actually a slightly amnesiac, depowered Balrog.
I don't know, I think him killing the fireflies is a sign that maybe he's some kind of evil entity.
@@BIackstrength this potential origin story is actually the only reason I can kinda make peace with the Gandalf and the hobbits being put in this show. So I hope that’s where the story is heading to, otherwise I would just wish neither the stranger nor the hobbits would’ve ever appeared in the show.
Given the doom and gloom I've seen on other channels, and the paid-by-amazon praise coming in the other direction for months, it is refreshing to see an honest, fair chance take on this. Thank you very much for your opinion.
I quite like your "let's give it a fair chance" mind set. Before watching, I really thought/feared I was going to hate it all and I must say I have been pleasantly surprised at some points, especially Durin holding a grudge over being ghosted for 20 years.
Though no amount of "but she is the most badass elf ever" (which in the books Galadriel is) will ever convince me that jumping of a ship in the middle of the ocean is anything but astronomically dumb.
Except being ghosted doesn't make sense. IF Durin invited Elrond to his wedding Elrond would attend or it would be completely out of character. IF Durin didn't actually invite Elrond to his wedding how was Elrond supposed to know he should have turned up.
I mean, of course its stupid, but in Galadriels Mind going to Valinor just yet wouldve been more stupid. Also shes kinda fanatical, going so far makes sense for her in that situation. I liked it
@@pilotgetreide755 This makes no sense. If she is fanatically bound to her quest AND she know that going to Valinor is "more stupid" than jumping ship in the middle of an open ocean with hundreds of miles of water around you - why on earth didn't she just not board the boat?
It's more like she realized, she is the main star of a multi-season show and couldn't die, no matter what she did.
@@Der_Thrombozyt You could think of it like that I guess, if you want to hate it. Galadriel isnt perfect, i think she was kinda convinced to let the hate go and at the last moment, she realizes that she cant do it.
@@pilotgetreide755 I don't "want to hate it" - it's something I saw with my wife and we were both ejected from the story, since we both considered it suicide.
Nothing in the story up to that moment explained a motive for near-certain suicide.
Looking forward to the full autopsy! I think that is part of the reason the individual review episodes weren't doing great, because I think most of your best videos are reflective and synthesize the full of the series or character, as opposed to summarizing. (Also doesnt help that 100s of others are doing the same at the same time).
Yeah I've definitely found I struggle with the review format. It feels quite hollow or I just can't muster the oomph, and my strengths are in that more holistic approach!
~ Tim
@@HelloFutureMe but please do these reviews if they are fun for you to do! Many of us still watch!!
@@HelloFutureMe that's exactly why people like / what people like about your content (IMO of course). You're *very* good at dissecting & communicating the big, big picture of most media, which includes pulling in relevant support from tertiary fields that you clearly also have experience in (such as mental health, psychology, interpersonal dynamics etc)
I really feel like episode 1 was... not great. It felt rigid, predictable and shallow... but episode 2 actually felt more in the tone of Tolkien's world. The ocean scene's felt weird, but the dwarves were wonderful and the problem of friendship between elves and dwarves is finally explored. I don't know, I really am trying to give it a fair shot, and I really don't like some parts, but others actually resonate with me.
random thoughts : idk their name but the earthy-quirky people eating berries and acting like clowns fell flat for me. I know they were going for a cut to lovely hobbits 2.0 except i do not care about them. at all. the giant is okay-ish we'll see how he develops. When you think about it it's already been 2 hours and i'm only emotionally invested in the Elrond + dwarves part. That's pretty bad
I don't think the scene with Elrond and Durin works when it comes to logistics though.
Of Durin got married, surely he sent a invitation to Elrond. Which makes Elrond an asshole for not responding or coming.
However, if no invitation was sent, Durin is the asshole for getting mad about something Elrond had no idea was happening.
Unless they are trying to imply that Durin got mad about that long before he got married and by that time we didn't even want to see Elrond anymore ? But even then, I think that's not a great look for his character.
I actually kinda liked the show except the elves and Galadriel storyline, which is annoying since she's the main character..
I felt like the first episode was awkward in a way first episodes are often awkward, where it’s clunky because they’re setting everything up and the actors haven’t settled into their roles yet. I agree the second one was better, which I’m taking as a good sign.
I just don’t understand all these changes. None of them improve the narrative. It’s possible to tell the actual story, while still giving new characteristics and motivations, without just butchering and making up shit.
My problem with Galadriel is not her being an action hero. It's that she's portrayed as a hotheaded, obsessive, and very prone to drive her people unsustainably hard. She risks her soldier's lives unnecessarily and ignores their very reasonable concerns until they're collapsing in the snow. She grasps at straws for clues about Sauron, so Gil-Galad, the Elven King, understandably has concerns that she's a loose cannon.
Galadriel reminds us in the series how she saw the light of the Trees in Valinor. Though Tolkien is deliberately vague about chronology during the Years of the Trees, she was clearly a mature Elf whose words carried weight in council when deciding to pursue Morgoth to Middle Earth. That makes her well over 600 years old (the length of the war of the Noldor against Morgoth) by Year 1 the Second Age. Galadirel was described by Tolkien as ambitious for a realm of her own in Middle Earth at the time the Noldor left Valinor, again indicating maturity and very adult thinking. Not a hothead.
Galadriel did not swear the Oath of Feanor, believed the Noldor could not beat Morgoth unaided, and was best friends with Melian the Maia - all of which suggest wisdom which the Rings of Power version of Galadriel clearly lacks.
You'd think that by the Second Age, even given an oath to take up her brother burden, Galadriel would pursue Sauron in a calculated way. She was certainly well aware that Elves had limited numbers and could not afford to be as rash as she is in Rings of Power.
If we look at Tolkien's timeline, and not the compressed Rings of Power chronology, Sauron starts building Barad Dur around SA 1000. Assuming this story take place shortly before that event, add another 900+ years to Galadriel's age and maturity at the start of the series.
Keep in mind that Galadriel was already involved with Celeborn and had been for roughly 500 years at the dawn of the Second Age. You'd think he would accompany her on her missions, or at least we'd see him when she visits Elven lands.
This Galadriel seems to be on a 'coming of age' arc. There's some attraction implied between herself and our human castaway (where's Celeborn?). This isn't bad storytelling - if the character was simply another elf warrior. Honestly, I enjoy the actor's portrayal, and she has the look of a younger Galadriel. Hotheadedness in a 'young' elf warrior who was weaned on the War against Morgoth would be thoroughly believable in another elf warrior. Naming her Galadriel, however, and having her so different from the Galadriel in the source material is jarring. For me she's just not... Galadriel.
That said, the series so far is more engaging than I expected. There are characters who interest me, the 'rise of Sauron' storyline is fairly engaging, the music and portrayals of places in Middle Earth really pique my interest. We'll see how this goes.
Your mileage may vary of course. My two cents.
“It’s okay for a story to be, just okay, and still enjoy it” and “happy to be back in middle earth in any capacity, even if it’s not completely accurate” are two sentiments that perfectly describe my feelings toward the show
Half a billion for a story that's just "okay"? Not enough to be fair
@@sebdrum92 we’re two episodes in, it’s too early to say how the show is as a whole. Some people are enjoying it so far. It’s not like mind blowing or anything, but I’m enjoying it. And that’s okay. I’m simply trying to agree with Tim’s sentiment that it isn’t f*cking mind meltingly good but it doesn’t mean you need to feel bad if it tickles your brain a little
@@_emory I apologize in Advance for the long reply.
I think 2 hours is enough to get things going and so far the show has been stale. set ups for meaningless stuff, the main characters are unlikable (which doesnt mean they have to be nice), lots of tell don't show, pompous drawn out sentences and metaphors that don't land, manufactured motivations that audiences dont buy into, unearned Deus ex machina. The butchering of Tolkien's writings Is the least of this show's problem, it's all over the place with no true vision to push It forward in a compelling way.
Compare that to any other show which starts "slow" but you still care because you can clearly feel that there's something intriguing that makes you want to keep watching (BcS or BB for example)
I'm at point in my life where i dont care if it's lotr or not, that alone doesnt tickle my brain anymore. i love Tolkien but i want a good show First and RoP Is actually a masterclass on how NOT to do It. It's not good when you're watching a scene that YOU KNOW it should evoke a certain feeling, but It doesn't, that's the worst thing for a story, audiences not caring about it.
@@sebdrum92 I get that. I truly do.
Galadriel sucks. Like plain and simple. I’m pretty sure everyone’s complaints are mainly levied at her arc. I do have plenty of complaints but they are minor and they are overshadowed by my desire to see more of Moria in its heyday lol.
But yeah, Galadriel’s “but what about the darkness in here?!” Line did legitimate physical harm to my psyche.
@@_emory it's fine really. For me One of the beauty of lotr and the 3rd Age particularly Is that you see these places as ruins of once great and thriving civilizations, It makes the imagination go wild and it's what grounds lotr to reality in some way, so that has always been a secondary thought for me in RoP although some of the shots are really good, but that's about it for me.
Oh and the score Is good, i Wish It would've served a Better story
Are you actively trying to trigger people's dyslexia with the wording of the video title, or are you just doing it for the memes?
Definitely the memes
I thought I am just drunk
Yeah i just gave up reading it after a couple of seconds
For a second there I thought someone had published a novelization of the Amazon series.
Definitely hurt my head there for a second lol
I felt the series jumping from [important plot point] to [important plot point] too much.
I wish there were more 'quiet' character moments. Like some hobbits stealing a farmers food, whining about second suppers. A dwarf and an elf competing at drinking. A hobbit getting home sick after a few steps. A wizard lighting fireworks and laughing out loud! Those gorgeous diverse expressions a characters make!
I only remember seeing a harfoot fall in the mud. Oh and I really liked Durin's short relieved face when Elrond forfeited rock smashing, that was great! I felt that!
I think the Harfoot and Stranger storyline is telling Gandalfs story and provided some needed comic relief. It also helps tie in this story to the LotR and the Hobbit because the hobbits play a big role in those and they didn't come from nowhere.
Galadriel's line about the battle under the stars, and the very names of the fallen taking more than a man's lifetime to speak was by far my favorite part so far. I hated the setup to that (the valinor thing was so stupid), but that and the moments when that actress contorts her face in anquish/anger in front of Elrond was genuinely 😳 wow.
In my mind, the show is just meh. Given that I went in expecting garbage, this is an improvement on my expectations, but not to the point of satisfaction. I've read LoTR, The Hobbit, the Silmarillion, and Unfinished Tales for reference.
Dialogue is the show's biggest weakness by a lot. It's like the uncanny valley effect, but for Tolkien's dialogue. Some of the lines are just laughably bad as well.
Visually, the show looks amazing. Khazad-Dum, in particular, made me very happy. The hobbit village was also excellent.
The characters are overall whatever. Arondir is my favorite, but the rest range from bad to uninteresting. Galadriel and Elrond, specifically, don't have a strong presence.
My most significant emotion regarding the whole 2 hours was just boredom though. Not sad, not angry, not happy, just bored. 5/10
A shadow of a whisper of a hint of a lack of believable dialogue?
Dialogue was an endless facepalm-inducing cringefest. And Guyladriel is just the worst
Tim, you continue to be an incredible boon to the Tolkien fandom and to fantasy fans in general on this platform. You’re always so understanding, empathetic, concise, but capable of taking a stand against things that upset or disappointed you. This was an incredibly fair review and I wish more people saw RoP and other shows with a less biased or hyperbolic lense.
For me, the show has been a 5.5/10 so far, but I’m keeping an open mind to it developing into something more exciting and original than what’s been presented so far. By no means the worst thing ever made, some of it is quite fantastic. Just… a lot of it does seem contrived or staler than I’d expect, even distancing myself from it being an ‘adaptation’ of any kind.
"wish more people saw RoP in a less biased sense"
...you gave the show a 5.5. You do realize that is terrible for something like Lord of the Rings?
I actually like when Galadriel told that man on the raft “I grieve for you. For those you have lost.”
It was a good detail to add to the elves and the way they are culturally.
Well... the rest of the time she is an UTTER harpy
My kids asked me if Disney made this? That was not a complement ...
A big thing you didn't mention that I think really effects this show, however, is the copyright limitations they have. What a weird situation, where they can use the LoTR appendices, but not the Silmarillion. As much as I understand the desire to protect Tolkein's legacy, I feel like the show was doomed to disappoint a lot of people from the moment it went forward with only a tiny slice of the lore. I have to commend the creators for even taking on the task of navigating that.
Otherwise this is def the best reaction vid I've seen so far. Partially because of how reasonable you are, but also I just agree with you on everything lol. That Galadriel line was a low point for me, also when the elves on the ship started singing along with the score, making it diegetic somehow? Bold move, but truly abysmal for me. The Orc scene with Bronwyn and Leo and those two moments with Comet Man you mentioned were highlights for me, too. And even though I see a lot of annoying generic action girl tropes in this young Galadriel, I'm a sucker for a ptsd storyline and her inner conflict is compelling to me, even if it's not particularly well executed.
On the subject of limitations, I recently watched a video suggesting how the show could have been written around that.
ruclips.net/video/F9NR06-QtR8/видео.html
They can use SIlmarillion stuff, and already have - but they don't *own* the rights to those things. They use them on case by case sufferance and closely watched permission from the Tolkein Estate (which incidently somewhat torpedoes the 'wanton butchering' accusations
@@Wirrn While I haven't seen that particular term used, I don't think there's any denying that the series does indeed butcher the lore. The time compression alone should be evidence of that.
@@Msoulwing time compression is inevitable if you're not doing a high concept anthology series and actually want to tell a single cohesive story - remember this stuff wasn't written as a story, it was written as a history text. Turning that into a story following characters involves *adapting*.
Hell the Lord of the Rings films compress time as well, Frodo sits it the shire for 17 years.
Now there IS a theme of immortal elves Vs mortal humans but as we've already seen you don't NEED to show thousands of years passing to convey that information
@@Wirrn But you *could* do a high concept anthology series. The necessity for time compression is entirely of their own making.
There's some _profoundly_ silly stuff, too, like Galadriel diving off a boat in the middle of the ocean in order to swim back to Lindon - you can tell it was one of those "Wouldn't it be cool if..." moments in the writers' room.
She's also apparently part homing-pigeon, as there's no indication of what direction she needs to swim in!
She could use the stars to navigate, however I totally agree. The voyage takes weeks on ship and she was just gonna swim back ?
The sun rises in the east and sets in the west: all she has to do is swim East
I mean she's an elf so it's not like a human swimming across the sea. And it's not dramatic unless she leaves conflicted and changes her mind at the last minute. And her swimming back also soaks to her determination. I mean, my thought at that moment was "Dayum... she is really not fixing to give up on her gut feeling."
You didn’t know she was an Olympic swimmer? 😁
Yeah, that's kind of Ranma fanfiction style stuff there...
I really appreciate the respectful addition to the video about being allowed to enjoy something with a "just okay" story and let them appreciate the other things that work better or are more enjoyable to the credit of the people who worked so hard to deliver the product. It makes me feel less inadequate or dumb or wrong when these big creators acknowledge that instead of only focusing on a messy plot or a stiff script or bad CGI.
I really appreciate this thoughtful review. The vast majority of reviews on this show so far have been the antithesis of thoughtful. I'm enjoying the show. I think it's been a lot of set up so far, but enjoyable set up. Hopefully now that a lot of set up is out of the way they can get into the meat of their story soon.
In my opinion, the biggest problem with the series is that looks cheap and expensive at the same time. It has great visuals and cinematography but in the same time the costumes look cheap, the dialogs are so bad almost cringe and the casting reminds me of soap operas.
Exactly, looks good (mostly) but Story and Characters are weak to non-existent
I agree, this point can also be made about plot. It gives an impression of some fantasy-style plot with bits of Tolkien here and there. And these "elements" of Tolkien do not allow you to forget that it is Middle-Earth but at the same time do not allow to engage in the story as it is so different from Lore and Jacksons trilogy.
I think instead of cheap, the word you are looking for is uninspired. They have all the money but no direction. The armour for example is so generic. Great looking, but generic, like a DnD cosplay.
@@Trowa71" uninspired" thanks for reminding me, now i have a fresh qord to describe this show😁
@@Trowa71 I like the word haha! - Rings of Power "Good looking but uninspired" like my ex!
RoP being Okay feels like a fair assessment. It was a lot better than the WoT adaptation, but it's supposed connection to Tolkien did make it feel weird at parts (especially the language). Like the WoT adaptation, my overall feeling is that we need more original fantasy shows that aren't connected to preexisting books or franchises.
I would love more new IPs but unfortunately the standard for production these days is so high that big corporations “can’t justify the cost”.
Which is a pity and a lame excuse but I guess that’s how the cards are right now
Or we could have more faithful adaptations and not pander to the minority”how meany perfect adaptation do regular men have to watch that aren’t soap opera teen girl saves the world trash first four seasons of game of thrones and the Peter Jackson’s lord of the rings”
@@jamesfrederick. this. There's endless amounts of great source material, everything is just made by the same 3 mega corporations who constantly meddle.
A lot more authors out there than original screenplay writers.
Except for the Witcher Show, that was pretty good.
@@LunarOverdrive tbh I never got into the Witcher series but that may just be a me thing
Hey there, found you through a shout out from The Quartering's Jeremy, where he showcase your email communications with Amazon.
Nice to see someone who is honest and transparent, so automatically subbed in support. I look forward to viewing all your content.
After watching many of your vids and taking the deepest lessons to heart, I came to genuinely respect your passion for storytelling and knowledge of how it should be done. I agree with your emphasis on well-written, believable characters that you can enjoy going on a journey with. And the deepest, most fundamental aspects of your criticism have inspired me to finally do something. Something I knew I wasn’t ready for when I first imagined it.
For the last 20 years, I have written roughly 1 million words for friends and family, with the simple purpose of earning adequate skill at storytelling. I honed my writing, and even ultimately benefited from deep, painful personal struggles, so that I could finally tell a specific short story. It complements and builds up one of your favorite films. And, incidentally, it also showcases many examples of genuine masculinity displayed in a variety of ways.
Further, I feel it sets a very high bar for what respectful, quality “fanfiction” should strive to be. Upholding a beloved work. Understanding it, valuing it, and forgiving any supposed flaws. Contributing a modest addition to someone else’s great legacy. Underscoring and deepening the arc of an already beloved character. Teaching the same positive lessons with the same noble themes, in a slightly different way. Honoring the work, the creator of that work, and all those who have come to love it for what it is.
I strove to keep it focused, purposeful, limiting it to just 22,000 words. It may not be perfect, but it certainly tries to be. I hope you will consider giving it a read. Based on what you’ve shown everyone of your true self (behind your hilarious outward persona), I believe you will approve of these efforts. You may be uplifted and proud for having put forth the time to read it. And you will then enjoy going back to watch your favorite trilogy yet again, perhaps getting even more out of the experience.
The tale is humbly posted, amidst countless others, on fanfiction.net, under the title “The Children of Rohan,” by WillDreamer.
« It’s kind of okay » is not enough for a show with such a budget and such a world to work with. It was made by a lot of people… but not by any Tolkien fans.
These are my biggest gripes. It's all being made because of brand recognition, nothing more.
I love how Peter Jackson’s original trilogy only cost a tenth of this series. Rings of Power looks like a billion dollars was given to a group of students in film school who hadn’t read one of the books and told to make a series.
I didn't hate the show, but some things are just ridiculous. The problem with the sea worm isn't the 'fight' itself, rather than the prelude and aftermath. Galadriel jumps off her ship in the MIDDLE OF THE OCEAN and casually swims a few miles in full dress, after which she just so happens to encounter a random raft. After the raft is destroyed, she just so happens to encounter a ship. That is the very definition of lazy writing.
I was scrolling through youtube and just so happened to find this video and after watching it I just so happened to scroll down and read your comment and now I just so happen to be replying to it. That is the definition of lazy writing. Also she probably swam for significantly more than a few miles, she's been shown to have great endurance, her plan wasn't to jump out in the middle of the ocean, it was a spur of the moment decision because going to the undying lands wasn't sitting right with her, the raft wasn't completely destroyed (we're unsure how long she was adrift) and running into ships in the middle of the ocean isn't exactly the oddest occurrence given enough time. You're just mad for the sake of being mad, which is kinda wack.
Right? I legit thought they were going to have her swim all the back herself. Very contrived circumstances. Oh, and not only is coming up on a ship in the middle of the ocean extremely unlikely (contrary to what Pandas said), but she just so happens upon the one hot guy who gives her exactly what she needs.
This show has some ridiculous moments, but it seems you're just nitpicking for no reason. Swimming for days wouldn't bother an elf, they don't get tired easily. This is shown in the same episode as Elrond forfeits even without being tired, just to make sure his friend looks good. Also she wasn't in full dress, she was just in a dress and a knife. No armor to slow her down. If encountering random ships in the sea is lazy writing, then Tolkien is the master of it, since people randomly bump into each other all the times in his books.
@@NevG27 the worst thing is, it would have reinforced how fierce she is so well if she swam all the way back to the coast on her own. (and struggled, of course, but still)
just imagine how much the rest of the show will probably be just... lazy writing. what about that fast travel for elrond and, uh, callibrimborn? idk what his name is. how they just magically turn the corner like they had a teleportation scroll. a writer and director were ok with that. and if you actually examine the scenes, most of the scenes and dialogue... are unnecessary. or... trying to be important, just for the sake of it.
Randonmly remember u from when i was younger and was crazy over ur httyd vids. Glad to see ur doing well thx for ur content.
Luv u and ur content
Something to keep in mind - they only have the rights to LOTR and it’s appendices, not the Silmarillion, which is definitely a barrier as they have to toe the line regarding rights (especially seems to impact the first age).
Then they should not have made a a show about it if they do not own the rights to the original texts.
Not to mention the way they revel in erasing Tolkien beyond just his works is sickening enough as well as the fact they definitely don’t intend on doing any of his works justice. They had ALOT of material to make a movie based on all the things in the trilogy movie left out of the previous films to tie them all together. Those books alone are giant books. Tolkien has like 7+ books out there. “We are writing the story Tolkien never wrote” “give me game of thrones” and nobody in the cast or crew even read his works. They are utterly clueless and many are willingly pushing an agenda. There is a reason it’s called HELLywood.
@@christianefiorito3204 A very good point! And yet, here we are...
I'm kinda leaning towards the stranger is Sauron/Annatar. What got me thinking of this is the whole the fire wasn't burning the harefoots when they inspected the crash site. And they made a point to point out that great evil can basically take away the warmth from light.
If the Stranger is anybody other than Sauron it's gonna be weird. Like, there's enough story in the Second Age already without having to add in a wizard that wasn't even around/involved in ME during that time.
@@erikstevenson8508 plus lore wise the wizards showed up in the third age because Sauron reappeared after being defeated during the timeline of the show
I’m glad I’ve found someone else who thinks it’s him too haha
I am pretty sure it's Halbrand
@@bard5865 Halbrand is the guy on the raft
The sad/brilliant thing is that some changes can be handwaived by “history”
If Finrod had a moment of cowardice and Galadriel says “let history remember his bravery”, then by the nature of how Tolkien’s world works, it is very believable.
Like if Númenor is destroyed by a different cataclysm and the historians write “sunk under the sea by Eru Ilúvatar” as a morality lesson, I’m not sure many elves would disagree.
I agree to apoint but I feel like Eru sinking númenor is literal.
@@thebigcheese7557 agreed
@@thebigcheese7557 Right. But we don't have to see the literal hand of god. Like if a volcano rips the entire island like Santorini, and the history book says "sunk by god"
@@SyrEmilon Except that Tolkien literally wrote it as the hand of God, because in addition to sinking Numenor, Eru also banned all men from being able to reach Valinor and turned Arda from a flat disk to a globe. Eru literally reshaped the planet, and the elves of all beings would definitely notice that
@@SyrEmilon It's not like Eru has hands to punch an island. His actions aren't direct, of course, but it still his will.
This is also the single time Eru actively acts on Arda, so it's important since... well, he literally re-shapes the world lol
I absolutely adore how your cat is held and how it lets you hold them. It has been the sweetest thing I've seen all day
You got some real praise from George the Giant Slayer channel. New subscriber here. Thank you for your authenticity and passion for Tolkien's writing and legacy!
I was about to subscribe and say the same... But I watched the video...
And take a look to the comments... disgusting...
Something about the show has been bothering me. Some things you mentioned definitely strike home but I still can't quite put the finger on it.
One of the things that I have noticed is that I'm quite sure if it wasn't based on Tolkien I would enjoy it far more. That is unfortunate but I guess also somewhat fair. They try to profit from the standing of Tolkien material so they gotta deliver too. At the same time trying too hard can result in it feeling forced like some of the things you have mentioned but also others.
Stories are probably best when artists can do their thing as free of expectations as possible. Im-possible for this show.
Well... I shall try to be as open to amazement as I can.
I agree. It’s quite good fantasy if you put any connection to Tolkien out of mind. It could have been a pretty decent show on its own merits.
I felt the same way. If they hadn't slapped Tolkien's name on it but presented it as a generic fantasy story set in a generic fantasy world it would have been kind of like Xena and Hercules - goofy over-the-top sword and sorcery stuff that doesn't take itself too seriously. Also would have prevented the need to do sUpErFaNs vignettes or having a beardless dwarf ramble on and on about why her character is redressing the balance and whatnot. Funnily enough the dinner scene with Durin IV, Disa and Elrond was the scene I enjoyed the most in the first two episodes despite it feeling more like a French and Saunders parody than a Tolkien script.
Exactly, they wanted the built-in audience for profit but apparently did not realize there was baggage that came along with it (or vastly underestimated it). 80+ year history and fanbase for the Tolkien properties. If this was an unassociated fantasy series, there would not be any pre-conceived bias getting in the way of enjoying the series. The Silmarillion is my favorite Tolkien book and one of my favorite books. When I tried to watch the series, I kept coming across with major dissonances between what I knew to be in the book vs what the show displayed. For House of the Dragon, I have not read Fire & Blood so I have no notion of what is accurate or a deviation. But the fact GRRM is onset for that show would suggest that it will align with his vision.
If I watch it as just a fantasy show loosely based on lotr then I can enjoy it quite a bit actually
Untill Galadriel jumps the sword. Ew.
And yeah - all fight with icetroll were... bad. Really bad.
Exactly. It’s expensive fanfiction
Its not even loosely based
@@Theeight8b Re: the ice troll or whatever it was.
1 Elves are capable of walking in top of snow so the sword ramp itself was a neat idea.
2 However it should have been part of a coordinated maneuver, not her slaying it herself showing that her elves are useless and her lieutenant only good for a ramp. (But maybe, just maybe, her being a powerful fighter but ineffective leader is the point?)
3 It was still at least better to show her men getting torn up than when the dwarfs prance around for 5 minutes with the trolls in the Hobbit movie with zero consequences for anyone.
@@Brahmsonite Well, Hobbit movie were based on childrens book, you know... and i'd say, that there scene were better written.
Here scene shows... well... that her squad is literally useless.
It's an ELVES, for Eru sake! They have thousand of years of experiance, training and battles. They do posses superhuman strengh and agility. Ice troll? Should not be a problem for them. Like - at all.
I’m not versed in the overall lore, so I find it quite good. I think it’s well acted. I love Galadriel, Elrond, and Durin. My wife loves the Harfoots so much, and is hoping it is Gandalf.
The show looks gorgeous for the most part. I think it’s gotten better with each episode, we’re 4 in so far.
I think the thing that is challenging for me is the timeline in comparison to LOTR and how long ago this is, and how long people live etc. it’s hard to keep straight.
It looks beautiful
Thanks for this small review, loved it, it's very nuanced and well documented !
Ahh yes. The Powerring Lord Rings of the Power Lords…of the ring.
Are you sure you're not talking about the the Powerlord of the Rings of Lording?
~ Tim
@@HelloFutureMe Shang Chi and the legend of the ten rings of the lord of the rings of power of the rings of the power rings.
Nice take as always, Tim. I think from a story perspective what didn't work for me was the first episode missing an inciting incident. In other words, there didn't seem much point to the first episode beyond get to know our characters. Not inherently bad but when they don't have a threat or a purpose that spurs the rest of the story in motion, you're left asking why are we here. When this was introduced at the beginning of episode 2 the story could finally grow and become interesting, but that left the first episode feeling awkward and directionless.
I also just rewatched the Fellowship prologue: it's simply a masterclass of a prologue; something that's frankly very difficult to do. Case and point the Rings of Power prologue didn't exactly ignite my interest in the same way. There's a video idea for you, the ROP vs fellowship prologue and why the latter works so much better
Thank you for yet another great video! ♡
What I mostly enjoyed is to see the different peoples of Middle-Earth actually living in colourful spaces with ambitions and desires.
Moreover I thought the Harfoots were a good choice to be the beings meeting the stranger. They might be the only beings of Middle-Earth that can meet and help a creature like the Stranger without feeling the need to remember and/or write it down as history.
There is a suggestion that Olórin was in Middle-Earth during the second age to present the Elessar to Galadriel. I know its a weak link and later Tolkien explicitly stated Gandalf arrived in Middle-Earth in the Third Age. But I don't mind. At least so far.
Finally...I really think stories should be told. And that its fine for different versions of a story to exists side by side. Like bards and skalds telling and retelling our favourites with changes happening over time and through embellishments. It's fine that we like one version and/or storyteller better than the other. And I agree that it is also fine for stories to be okay and just enjoyable.
Your video was such an pleasant watch, really enjoyed your calm and positive attitude and critiques, without indulging in too many hot takes and negativity. Really liked your views as an Tolkien fan, that is open minded about the show rather than overwhelmingly annoyed about every minor change.
For me, I don't mind lore and story changes, as long as it still has that "familiar feeling". So far Rings of Power has those sparks of Tolkiens Middle-Earth and I hope they lean more into that as the show progresses.
If your worry about the Stranger being one of the Istari is because it's lore-breaking, the Blue Wizards actually arrived in the Second Age according to Tolkien's latest writings presented in the Peoples of Middle-earth. Really hope he's not Gandalf though.
If they’re trying to make him one of the Istari, they’ll need to tread Extremely carefully. They’re very much a Silmarillion/Unfinished Tales thing and the showrunners don’t have the rights to any of that
I want a buddy cop show with the two blue wizards. That's the extent to which I've thought about this, but I really want it.
@@spacejunk2186 Very little of Tolkien's writings were ever 'finished' aside from what was published in his lifetime, and even some things in LotR itself are contradicted by his later conceptions of ideas. He was constantly revising and rewriting, and even the Silmarillion is just a collection of sometimes largely unfinished texts. In reality, Tolkien finished very little of his Middle-earth writings, so if the show only drew exclusively from finished/published works, it would lose a huge amount of depth that it really does deserve.
I always think, it's lord of the rings "it wasn't that bad" or "ok" is nowhere near enough.
Surprised there’s no follow up video after the show finished. Would like to hear your thoughts now that we have a whole season to digest.
I simply adored all of Durin's scenes, speciffically with Elrond. They balance each other so well that the dialogue just seems to flow so naturally
Three things I found funny:
*The healer lady’s kid might end up as a Sauron’s cronie
*Hobbits have been having a Wizard problem since the beginning
*Why didn’t the elves tell Galadriel that they had a vision that her continued presence in middle earth will put everyone in jeopardy?
I am so glad to see someone who shares some POV regarding the show.
Personally, no one would convince me that this is an adaptation of Tolkien's Middle Earth, that doesn't mean it's bad, that remains to be seen, but that's not middle earth.
What makes Middle Earth feel like Middle Earth then? a fictional land only recently brought to the screen 20 years ago using New Zealand as a basis
Well, if it tries to say it's Tolkien and then is wildly different, that's bad writing. Trying to slot into an existing world, characters, and history... and failing to do so properly... is bad writing. It's true some issues would vanish of this was a generic fantasy series, but that's not what this is.
@@evanhamner4044 look dude, you can say whatever you can. But i don't think that story is about middle earth, they took the names of the characters and the places and the races but to me, those aren't Tolkien's elrond, or Tolkien's galadriel or Tolkien's Celebrimbor, and please keep note on the fact that i am talking from my own POV, you are free to think whatever you want.
@@AzureKnight2 but why is it bad writing if you decide to change parts of the lore when you notice the story will be better that way? Sometimes Authors even do this with their own work. Best example would probably be Masashi Kishimoto who changed a lot of his lore from Naruto to Naruto shiipuden. And I’m sure we all can agree that we’re happy that he did.
@@notthatgerry so then it's not really waiting to be seen if it's a good adaptation then?
This show is for people like me - moderate LOTR & Tolkien fans. I've read some of Tolkien books (LOTR & Hobbit), I've watched all te movies so far, but I'm not that proficient in capturing all the details of the Sauron or Gandalf characteristics to know from the first sentence who they are in the show (now, after watching tons of videos on the yt, I know that Sauron is a deceiver, a smith etc., so probably I would know now). So Sauron was a real surprise for me, and I loved it! I loved the show and I'm waiting for more!
Hey I just wanted to say I just bough vol 1 and 2 of OWaW and I've been reading a chapter every night before bed. Great work!
I don't hate it like I thought I would, but it's still yet to rise above "meh."
For me the strongest thing it has going is the visuals. It's quite beautiful, and I was impressed as well with Khazad-Dum, especially the mirrors. The color pallet is vibrant and alive, including for the baddies, and that's incredibly refreshing and important to me after so many drab motifs like GoT.
My biggest detractors have been, firstly, the lore changes. I know being a different medium requires it to some extent, but too many are making me groan.
The second and more impactful for me is actually the Elves. You obviously disagree, but I don't personally get that sense of regalness and majesty from them that sets them apart as something other than fancily dressed humans with a relatively cordial manner of speech. There's something missing between this portrayal and the way Jackson did it that makes them feel like Elves to me. The only one I'm really getting it from is Arondir.
Overall I think it has promise, but it's missing the execution more often than landing it. Yet not so badly that I won't continue to watch.
@Peters6221 I thought about that too, and while I think it contributes, I don't think that's ultimately the reason for me.
Sure we're seeing them from the perspective of outsiders in the movies, but that's still true here too as viewers, because ultimately our culture is not their culture. We're always outsiders, even if we're sitting at their dinner table. It should still feel distinctly like their specific culture when viewed, no matter who we're following. But that aside, there's also times the movies focus on them through Aragorn or Arwen or Galadriel rather than the Hobbits, and most of our interaction with Legolas doesn't even involve the Hobbits. Those portrayals still feel truer to concept. Besides that we see how they interact with non-Elves in both series, which if it were strictly a matter of spotlighting they should still feel relatively the same during those interactions, but they largely don't. At least, not to me.
I think the best way I can describe my sense of it is that they don't feel like creatures who have lived the long lives they have. They're missing the gravity of their lifespan, and the mannerisms of beings born in a bygone age. Especially an age with such upheaval. The way they interact between themselves and with others should feel... anachronistic, almost alien, relative to the other races. Not to say they are anachronistic in-setting at this point, but in that these are truly ancient and unique beings, and it should feel that way to the viewers. As it stands they just feel like any other fantasy human civilization to me. I'm not convinced by their demeanor that they've been here effectively since the dawn of time, like I was with the Jackson films.
Of course, that's just me. I don't fault anyone who feels otherwise from them, but they're not hitting me the way I need them to to feel satisfied.
@@xLeechcraftx Exactly. It’s like they’re just humans with pointy ears.
I just wish they had the courage to spend a fraction of the money they spent on this on a new, original project. As much as I understand the point about wanting to go back to middle earth, this prevents new, young writers to explore their own visions with less of the silly controversy surrounding this, and it prevents us from exploring new worlds.
The controversy only became this vitriolic because this is about Tolkien and Middle Earth. Any fantasy show with this amount of money behind it would be an amazing opportunity, instead it feels like an attempt by a loveless corporation to ensure success by expanding on an already established and beloved world.
Yes! It could have been fresh, decent and interesting if it stood on its own merits.
But people dont care about new IPs thats why they keep remaking and rebooting old ones.
man your title really gave me a hard time this morning :"DDD
I appreciate this review of things so far. The honesty, fairness and balance in both critique of weak spots and high points. 100% Agreed on Elrond, that Khazad-dum is gorgeous, and the exposition, especially in the first ep, was a bit much. Hopefully things will move a little more smoothly now, at least?
Bear McCreary did great on the score, and can't wait to see what else he pulls off for later seasons. There's a motif in Galadriel's theme that gives me..vibes of the music from BBC's Merlin and just pulls me more into that fantasy style.
I'm impressed with some of the references they were able to put in with what rights they have access to.
P.S. I love how you leave some of your goofs or cat moments in the video. Adds a nice element and is good for a chuckle.
Relistening to the score. I’m curious where “This Wandering Day” is going to play, and if it’ll just be a song that plays over, or if it’ll be diegetic for Nori and them.
Okay so, this is my very first introduction into Middle Earth.
I've never watched the movies nor have I read the books, so I'm watching this with no expectations and completely fresh eyes. And I can definitely say that I have really loved and enjoyed what I've seen so far!
The world feels very big and rich with culture and history. Each race has a distinct culture and way of speaking. I feel like every character was well introduced and have unique personalities. So in general, I have no complaints.
I'm really interested in the development of this story and I can't wait to see more!
Oh that's a nice perspective! But also, do yourself a favour, watch the trilogy it's an absolute masterpiece of cinema 😂
And read the hobbit, then the book trilogy, then the Silmarillion, then Unfinishes tales, then get csu3ght in a loop of rewatching the lighting of the beacons scene for a week solid questioning your life choices
You are the target audience, congratulations
It's so weird when someone says that never watched lord of the rings trilogy... Like, how? I mean, how avoid? Maybe I'm just old... (29)... I don't even remember when was the first time I watched, because was always on TV... Yeah, I'm old.
@@nadias.mariano2196 I obviously saw a couple of scenes here and there whenever it came on TV, but most of those scenes were completely out of context, scary af and kinda traumatizing for me as a child.
I remember having occasional nightmares for YEARS about that giant spider and the creepy looking goblin-like creature with the huge eyes, obsessed with the rings.
Those things definitely deterred me from watching the movies most of life 😂 (I had no tolerance for scary stuff when I was a kid). But even now, I don't feel a particular urge to watch the movies.
But I also haven't fully watched any of the Star Wars movies so... 🤷🏾
@@__Oku__ Oh God Shelob being your first exposure to it is extremely unfortunate 😂
I assure you the giant spider is by far the most terrifying thing in it, it's not actually a horror film lol. Please though, when you get a chance, watch it. It is in my genuine opinion the greatest movie trilogy ever made.
Galadriel being a warrior makes as much sense as that movie were Lincoln kills vampires. It’s never stated that numenor sunk because giant pissed on it, doesn’t mean it happened.
I have enjoyed your takes on this show so far. You are always super genuine in your opinions and aren’t afraid to say what you like and don’t like about something. It’s the nuance that has really been missing in the caustic debate around the production of the show. I haven’t seen it yet because there have been a lot of red flags that have reminded of the breakdown of the Star Wars franchise. One of my best friends though has enjoyed the show so I think I’ll watch it with him. Hopefully I will grow to like it to, but that remains to be seen. I’ve held a lot of negative opinions so far so my confirmation bias might sway me to view the show far more critically than I might otherwise.
Anyway, that rambled on longer than it should have. 😆 Thanks for what you do
Some of Gil-Galad’s exposition scenes had the ghost of the general Zhoa “as you know…”
Though I think I came away liking the show more than you do, I'm grateful just to have a review that has NOTHING to with bad culture war takes. Loved hearing your thoughts
Lord Carrying Ring
I dont get how the dwarven thing is by any means "implied" to be a Silmaril. if anything it's really obvious that it is mythril
I assumed the arkenstone.
Earlier in the episode they establish the silmarils exist, and then the dwarves are like "oh man the elves are gonna want this shiny thing", and they know full well that history. It is probably mithril! And I'll be glad if it is.
~ Tim
@@HelloFutureMe it is 100% without a doubt mithril
I say this because Mithril allows Celebrimbor to help forge the doors that are only visible by moonlight.
Also I have a question have you played or heard the story of the shadow of Mordor games? What’s you opinion on them? Because that’s the only thing I know Celebrimbor from.
“Where the fuck is the ring light” is the giant elephant question i had whenever the elves show up. They don’t feel like Tolkien Elves. They feel like Elder Scrolls High Elves.
As someone who has very little knowledge of non-movie middle earth content and so cannot compare it to the existing material, I find it enjoyable! Nothing remarkable outside of the visuals so far but definitely worth the watch for an interesting story!
That!
Thank you for such an adequate and refreshing opinion! I really enjoy listening to you.
One thing really caught my interest in the series - the dwarfs singing to their mountains.
Personally, I don’t recall that being in books (though I might be wrong ofc) but the idea of it really broadens the picture of dwarves for me.
What are your thoughts on this matter?
It is a cool idea. The show has a bunch of good inventions that fit perfectly to Tolkiens world. Unfortunately, these "good" "elements" are surrounded by lore-breaking plot. This creates a filling of dissonance and does not allow to connect with the stroy.
Songs and music are a recurring theme in Tolkien's works, as well as the magic of song and the magic of everyday abilities - so I think it fits perfectly.
~ Tim
my brothers and i have settled on "not bad" and "better than the hobbit movies" for now. wasn't so enamored by it that it kept me from feeling drowsy in my midnight binge watch but i still plan to tune in to the rest of the series.
At first, I also thought it was Gil Galad who was giving permission to go back, but then Elrond makes a reference to “The call may not come again” which sounds to me like a call by the Valar. Which, though it may not be strictly accurate to the timeline of when that call occurred, it is in line who was in charge of that call (The Valar) and, down the road, who were allowed to return to the undying lands (those elves and ring bearers who fought the Dark Lord). Thoughts?
The movies extended versions are the best midswater marshes and other things but the movies are a spectacular panoramic global adventure stories
The problem with the Jackson trilogy being ageless and nearly perfect means that no other adaptation of the Tolkienverse will ever quite measure up to it.
That said, this take on Middle Earth feels very mediocre and tacky / gaudy considering that Amazon has literally infinite money and resources. If the Jackson trilogy is a flawless diamond, this series is a rhinestone - superficially pretty, but it rapidly loses its aesthetic appeal if you look at it closely.
nah
PJ's trilogy is nearly perfect adaptation you say.......????
Your silence, concerning why so many people actually hate this show, speaks volumes
It really doesn't. There is reasonable critique to be issued regarding this adaptation, like the writing style, the strange and nonesensical dialogues or actions (like when Galadriel is pulling the rope for no reason), the weird switches between extreme tension and nothing important happening at all, and many more things. And then there is unreasonable critique, like having a female main character who doesn't fit male viewers narrative of what they consider female or like having black elves is too woke already or whatever else.
I watched the first two episodes and then I stopped watching, at least for now. The dialoge between characters bores me and I find it unnecessarily cryptic and on the nose. It just feels like listening to wanna-be intellectuals who just add the most complex and "big" words they know to form a correct sentence and hope that viewers get lost in their word salad that they consider to be stunning and poetic.
I ironically like Disa's character(I'm having problems with the actress for keep saying nonsense). The dinner scene felt lively because of her.
Too bad her character is canonically impossible.
@@kornykitten and her "Scottish" accent is insultingly cringe (I blame the voice coach not the actress).
@@kornykitten what do you mean?
As someone who only read The Hobbit and only once, I’m enjoying the show so far. I know almost nothing about the setting and what to expect other than things established in the movies.
It’s interesting to hear others’ reactions though.
I came in expecting it to play fast and loose with it's adaptation. and I found the first 2 episodes to be enjoyable, not exactly worthy of being the most expensive show ever but not bad. No Dwarven lady beards is a massive missed opportunity though and I won't pretend it isn't.
This is one of the better breakdowns I’ve seen so far. I agree with pretty much everything except for the soundtrack. I thought the first 10 minutes could have been better with better music- I’ll have to try listening again and seeing if it sounds better.
I think this is one of the most honest reviews that I have seen, and I really appreciate it.
Personally I enjoyed it and think it has a lot of potential but there are only two fricking episodes. I personally found the Harfoots and Elrond quite charming (ghost writer Elrond is great) and I liked the slow burn of the first two episodes. It gives me hope that the relationships won't be rushed like they were in Wheel of Time, personally I bought the friendship between Elrond and Galadrial and between Nori and Poppy. I enjoyed it and I look forward to it getting better and better because there not many shows that are at their best in the first season
The consensus among my little bubble is that it's all smoke and mirrors. Looks amazing, but the narrative is not particularly engaging or interesting.
You liked the sound design? It's funny that you mentioned the Khazadum theme and the Harfoot themes because I was literally just telling my friends that they're the only two I remember.
Geoge the Giant Slayer pointed me here. Very glad to find a true comenter out there, keep it up!
I will preface this by saying that I haven't watched it yet, but regarding the portrayal of Galadriel: I don't like the quite juvenile view that she is strong now because she physically fights people. That may not be how she is in the series but it was clear in the marketing (and it is a wider trend for the portrayal of women not just present here). And that really put me off because it is such a simplified view of strength to limit it to physicality. I feel like rather than being empowering as it intended to be it comes off as quite brutish and just wrong. Strength encompasses so much more than a person's physical capabilities it feels quite problematic and reductive to fixate on it as much as modern media (as well as marketing) does. I don't know that just really put me off particularly when compared to the powerful portrayal in the films which was a very soft power which isn't often portrayed at the moment.
She has not fight anyone physically in the first two episode yet. Physically she is capable to fight, but she is not the strongest elf, maybe the bravest which suits the narrative here. She does have a clear motivation on what she wants to do and that determination is what I see to be her strength, cause there’s a conflicting narrative on what she needs to do/believe with what her king is asking her to do. Although it was kind of a slow to get to the part where she does what she believe to be the right thing to do.
You're opinion means nothing if you haven't watched the show yet, this isn't a video about a trailer its about the show.
There are many kinds of strength, and being able to punch stuff well is just one of them. Galadrial is emotionally all over the place and she doesn't seem able to admit her mistakes -- I hope to see her become strong in more ways than just physical.
Also, I would like for the Stranger to be one of the Blue Wizards. That would be ok. I've seen some suggesting Tom Bombadil, but I don't think that's him.
Him being Tom would be, weird? Poorly thought out? It's hard to imagine Tom having amnesia. Or flying in the sky as a meteor.
@@RabbitShirak Personally, I've semi-loathed Tom since I first read LotR. I'd much prefer they didn't go that route. If they keep him jolly and rhyming, it would annoy the non-purists. If they change him, they'll annoy the purists. At this rate... It'll be Tom. Ugh. I'd rather Gandalf to him and I so don't want this to be Gandalf.
@@araneljones Hey, another Tom hater! High five!
@@RabbitShirak Whoop whoop! I mean, I get why other people like him, but I was SO glad that was cut from Pj's version. I missed Goldberry, though. She felt like book Galadriel's soul sister.
@@araneljones I know what you mean. He seemed too out of place and random. He would've fitted in Hobbit much better.
I appreciate the balance to this review so much. 'Okay' is the best middle ground when we're talking a property as massive as Tolkien's work and we're only two episodes into an adaptation. Granted, I speak as someone who's only read the main trilogy and The Hobbit + appendices and only did so years ago. There's a lot I don't remember. Maybe that's why I've enjoyed just being back in the universe, inaccuracies and occasionally odd pacing aside. I'm not hopeful yet, this series is walking a wire here in these early stages, but I'm content to sit back and wait to see what it has in store. Even if it's wildly different from what Tolkien would have written, who knows. It may still make for a good story. Only time will tell.
Hello, I would like to know if there´s going to be a version in spanish about your books for world building
Thanks Tim! Great review. I personally liked the first two episodes a lot. But I think you perfectly captured your mixed feelings well in an articulate and rational manner. My hope that the remaining 6 episodes resolves lot of the issues that you might have concerns about,
I felt like this was one of the first thought-out and detailed reviews so far
is the stranger Sauron? maybe? the fire wasn't hot around him, like in the first ep the torches the elves carried didn't give off heat cause of the evil that had been there. and then they found his symbol.
Regarding the Durin names: Durin the Deathless was the first of the dwarves, and dwarves believed that he would be reincarnated seven times. I'm guessing they're paying homage to that in the show and/or condensing the timeline of the various Durins that exist throughout the ages of Middle Earth.
I generally have enjoyed it so far (Adorable Harfoots, great to see Khazad-dum in its prime, and I find the Arondir "the Elvish Tunnel Rat" storyline intriguing), with one major disappointment: Galadriel. I have no problem with Warrior Galadriel, but I do not care for "Loner/Agent Mulder"-Galadriel: She should be the natural center of the group, both as a child and as a warrior: Athletic, headstrong and compassionate, a "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" if you like, would be more in line with Tolkien's Younger Galadriel from his 1973 letter, “She was then of Amazon disposition and bound up her hair as a crown when taking part in athletic feats.”
If I may be so bold, imagine this rewrite of just a couple of scenes of episode 1, that (I hope) would be more in line with Tolkien's Younger Galadriel.
1) In the opening, the Children are cheering on her and her paper boat, but she miscalculates and it sinks. She, and the other Elf kids are angry/sad over this, but her Brother takes her aside to comfort her, as in the show. (One of the best scenes in show so far!)
2) The hunt for Sauron in the Cold North: All in her company are introduced by name by Galadriel, they are all Veterans who have lost loved ones to the Dark Side and after SEVERAL HUNDRED OF YEARS, they have complete and total loyalty to each other and especially Galadriel: They know each other strenghts and weaknesses in and out, so Galadriel saves the one who almost fell from the Glacier, and together the Elf Company take down the Ice Troll, with Galadriel giving the final blow as in the show. All in the Company wants to carry on further with her and get revenge on Sauron, but they are clearly pushing their limits. Galadriel DEEPLY wants to continue, but she do not want to lose more life: A paper boat can replaced, but her comrades in arms can not.
3) Gil-Galad and Elrond are not Sauron-naysayers. Many elves have lost their loved ones, and now wants to travel over the Sea to find the comfort/peace they long for. They think they have done their duty taking down Morgoth with the Valar: Let the "Younger Races" deal with this "lesser evil". Gil-Galad must follow the "popular opinion" to "pull back", but Elrond, having a strong tie to Men, is dishearted by this "defeatism". Gil-Galad then says that Sauron must be contained with alliances across Middle Earth, and that he have no finer diplomat for that mission than Elrond, who then travels as in the Show to Eregion and Khazad-dum.
4) Galadriel has been tempted to leave Middleearth, but as in the show she "jump the ship". We are SHOWN this is hard (leaving her comrades and possible peace in the West), but now she knows they are safe at least, and she feels she MUST avenge her brother and crush Sauron.
Note: This is was based on what is in the show, as she should be married by Celeborn and had her daughter Celebrian (who will marry Elrond and mother Arwen) by the time of the Second Age, but I hope this is something that atleast will happen within the planned five seasons of this show as it seems to truncate the time A LOT: Not my cup of tea given that five season could allowed some timejumps, but I will give them the benefit of the doubt for now.
No hard feelings if you do not like the show, that is fair.
I am enjoying the show so far, but do have some issues here and there. I really like the changes you made. They fit really well I think.
watching the rings of power was like receiving a present with the most beautiful gift wrap youve ever seen, only to open the wrapping and find that theres nothing inside. It felt like the hobbit all over again, all visual flare but no substance
I appreciate this channel so much for the integrity that you present with your reviews. There are so many channels and reviews that will give reactionary takes in any which direction, for everything. There's entire channels dedicated to complaining about specific franchises. Thank you for giving a genuine review, of your own thoughts that you've clearly taken time to consider. And especially for giving praise to the people who do an amazing job within the production teams, regardless of the quality of the story. It's okay for stories to not be perfect, and it's okay for people to not agree with every small detail and still enjoy things. So much respect to you and your channel.
Well said.
agree, i hope some big channels calls out these reactionary channels who calls anything WoKe or SjW
im sick of them channels
Just watched George the Slayer. You now have a new subscription. Sorry I missed you !