I'm in an ancient philosophy class right now, and just letting you know that you are a much better teacher than the one I have to pay to listen to. Thank-you for posting these!
Delainey C haha same here! And I go to one of the top universities! (Most of the teachers are top notch but in this ancient philosophy class this teacher is not very good at explaining the material!)
Thanks! I'm really glad to have my videos and teaching placed in that high tier! Yes, right now, no plans to do the Phaedo or the Symposium (there's some others I'd really like to do as well) -- I have some other topics in the works -- but the next time around I teach Intro, I'm focusing it on the theme of Love and Friendship, so I'll do the Symposium
Yes, Plato has been pretty influential over the years in the development of later literature. I'd say that, if you're properly motivated, no, you can defintiely read Plato as a a teen-ager. You may not understand everything completely, but it takes quite a while for that to be the case, even for adults.
Once again another well done lecture. I started off trying to help my sister in an intro-philosophy class she's talking online. Now I'm watching them more for my own edification. Thanks again.
Well. . . you can keep still on reading him. I'm not a Hobbesian by any means, but I still very much enjoy reading him, writing on him, and teaching his thought. There's loving a thinker because you identify with his/her perspective. Than there's loving him/her because of something like admiration or respect
Thank you very much for uploading these. I'm currently in my first year of philosophy and I find having different lecturers' perspective on the material helps me develop my own far better.
Thanks! I'm glad that you like the videos and my teaching style. It's unfortunate, but not everyone who is a good scholar is necessarily a good teacher -- it took me a while to learn how to engage my students well (including teaching in a prison -- but that's another story!)
You're very welcome -- and, it's actually good that the prof is specific, I'm guessing. Far better than just vague "tell me what so-and-so's main points are"! Thucydides is an old favorite of mine -- very influential on Hobbes -- but not a guy I'd generally get to teach in a Philosophy curriculum, unfortunately.
A Fun college lecture with active classroom interactions that forms a relatable and modern discussion on themes from the essay, a good companion video to reading the Crito. Lots of philosophical ground to cover for a short essay: Life Vs Good Life (virtue), Morales, applying reason in the face of adversity, societal laws and heritage. Also an interesting digression into whom one can turn to with moral dilemmas. One things for sure, Socrates took his social contract with Athens to heart.
You're welcome. It's an interesting question to consider. Now, if what you mean is whether Plato has those kinds of situations and crowds in mind, I'd say probably no. He tends to speak of "hoi polloi" - the many, rather than the "okhlos". And, he's writing this 3 1/2 centuries before Christ. But. . . if we want to think about the question more broadly -- how should we see "the many", as opposed to the wise, the one who knows -- well, that could be interesting to explore
Thank you Gregory, I really enjoy these videos you create. The philosophy class I'm taking is all online so the content and insight you provide for no additional cost is greatly appreciated! I have and will continue to share these with my fellow classmates.
I'm not sure I buy the argument here -- which is an interesting one. Socrates seems to be suggesting that he is the gadfly for his city, not for just any city that he happens to live in. Had he wanted to accept exile at the very time he was making that argument, he could have, but chose not to -- in fact, was very clear that he would accept death rather than stop doing philosophy. As to the other cities, it's not the many of the other cities who would be unwelcoming, it's their own Laws
Yep -- it's like being offered "au jus sauce" at restaurants. It used to drive me just nuts, and then I'd correct servers -- but realized after a while that it was just going to keep on happening, unless I started frequenting a better class of restaurants! I think the issue that you're raising can be looked at two ways. If we do look at it chronologically, then right, there's not much more to be said. If we're thinking about the crowd/many as such, then we've got a broader issue to examine
@FoolishOrc Good question -- which touches on an issue about Socrates debated since ancient times. I do think that the surface-level contradiction turns out not to be a real one. If you look carefully at the Apology, it does appear that Socrates is making implicit knowledge claims in that dialogue. Interestingly, in the Crito, you're right, he does appear to know quite a few matters-- but he doesn't claim to be the wise man explicitly.
I'm in 10th grade so I don't have access to philosophy class, but I'm really into philosophy so i self teach. Your videos help me took look it in other ways so thanks
I failed GCE English from college with a D Grade in 1999 at the age of 24. I am Very Clever but I find it difficult to read books. I have tried to read Exploring The Earth and Moon by Patrick Moore. I managed it but I forgot most of what I had read immediately after I had read it. I am a Poetry and Music fan! Was Plato an egocentric?! Seriously!
Great lecture. On reading Crito, it struck me if the whole dialogue was an elaborate setup for a complex dilemma, and Crito and the Laws the two ends of the dilemma.The purpose of the dilemma is to demonstrate that the intention to do good and not hurt others as a principle will result in a dilemma. Correct me if I am wrong. Socrates says. 1-As One should always do good, no matter what(Principle I) 2-One should never hurt anyone (Principle II) 3-Crito says not escaping will make you do evil, as you support evil when you do have the chance to escape.You will hurt your friends and children.(Violates Principle I and II) 4-Laws say escaping will wrong the state, and its people,will result in anarchy.(Violates principle I and II) 5-Hence, Socrates, in wish to always do good and not hurts others, has no choice at all. 6-So Socrates takes no choice. He is just left there dangling. What do you think?
I think that the dialogue clearly has Socrates saying at the end that the arguments of the laws are convincing for him, and that Crito's arguments are unconvincing. So, I don't agree with your quite interesting reconstruction
Well, it's a more or less hour-long class. I suspect that with this one, the flipcam might have shut off, though -- they do that if they get too hot or the battery runs out
hello Mr. Sadler what do you think about the contradiction between: Socrates saying he knows nothing (especially in the Apology) and the way he appears to be certain of many things in Crito? do you think it is possible to argue that a contradiction doesn't exist? is it about distinguishing between what you know and what you don't? knowledge/truth as opposed to opinions? or is it about realizing you cant know everything, or know the greater truth? i would be grateful for some general direction.
Socrates has already proven himself as a war hero in his youth. So he had already been tested. As an old person you are not motivated by what youth are motivated by. Socrates laid out his beliefs and how those beliefs motivated him to not fear death.
does plato have a large influence on literature? im a grade 10 student (probably early for plato?) and i read some of the dialogues and books by him because i find them fascination but i really love english. i was just wondering what influence plato has had on literature and if i should continue reading some of his works, or if they will just confuse me because i may not properly understand them yet? or they may not help me at all in any english courses. great video btw, thanks!
Long shot but I'm currently studying Classics in England and we're doing a philosophy module (which is why I'm watching this video) and my lecturer also taught Philosophy at a high security prison (San Quentin to be precise), I don't suppose the other person teaching was called Dr Lampe? (like I said it's a long shot but I thought I'd ask)
Okay Dr. Sadler, as a result of watching these easily accessible videos, I find myself trying to read Thomas McEvilley's "The Shape of Ancient Thought". (I bought it two years ago but haven't had the academic fortitude to read it until now.) There goes my life for the next few months... You wouldn't happen to have any comments on that piece of work would you?
i take a philosophy class in Mercy and this video makes me realize you get what you pay for. i should have went to Marist! Very helpful. Thank you so much and btw im the only one in my class that feels he deserved to die! haha There was alot more going on at that time then revealed by Plato!
If only Crito had reminded Socrates of his previous gadfly argument, and that if he escaped from prison he might be a force of good in that sense, if not in Athens then in a like city. I mean, by escaping from Athens, I concede it would go against their sentence of death, but it would achieve the same effect: ridding Athens of Socrates. Of course, as Socrates pointed out, he might not have been warmly welcomed in other well-ordered cities, but should he let the opinions of the many affect him?
Oh how I wish that ethics, and philosophy were taught in grade school and high school. Many of our lives would be completely different. So many ideas unheard of by people who need them the most, the poor.
Thank you so much for this video!! I'm a sophomore in college, taking my first philosophy class and I'm writing my first essay over the Apology and the Crito and the contradiction Socrates makes when he talks about never ceasing to practice philosophy despite the law's orders and then stating in the Crito that breaking the law or going against the country is unjust... so this was really helpful in understanding the Crito more. You are a great teacher and it seems like your students love you also! Thank you, keep it up! :)
I'm confused and I have read Plato many times. What confuses me is that Socrates is saying he will not go along with Crito's plan because Athens raised him. He was a "homebody" he never left, but you're now saying the laws did not work for him. How is this so?
@@sportsfan120577 Buddy, something went wrong with your reading then. Start with the Apology. This is really basic stuff. Not going to spend more time here on this
So who should we trust for the question what's just or unjust if not self or parwnts? The laws ? what if we don't like the law. The video is not of the complete lecture
Sorry to comment on an older video. Regarding your discussion around 57:30 about what we owe to a society that protects us, educates us etc... and your example of nurses and doctors. It seems to me that Socrates/Plato make the mistake of lumping the whole fabric of society together into a single lot, rather than accounting for a diversity of just/un-just laws and officials. Take our current worldwide pandemic situation for example. We are all immensely thankful for our doctors and nurses, and our medical institutions for fighting the pandemic, providing care to those who are sick. But while these individuals may be acting selflessy to protect the common citizen, it is strange to think that they are tied to government entities and institutional bodies that may have questionable policies. On the one hand you can argue that it is thanks to our govt that most of us are safe, on the other hand you can argue that the govt is at fault for not reacting appropriately. Did Plato account for the concept of such a government, where the legal framework may be there to protect you but there are certain agents or individuals within that framework who don't always make the correct decisions?
This is an old lecture, but I was wondering why you used MLK as an example? Imo the laws were not working for him or any people of color for that matter. The South was the antithesis of how Socrates felt about Athens. Socrates seemed like a staunch nationalist to me.
You can’t compare nationalism with the ideas of a city state like Athens. They were held together first as Athenians before they were held together as “Greeks” like they were more under Alexander the Great. There was a distinct cohesion based on them being one city
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I'm in an ancient philosophy class right now, and just letting you know that you are a much better teacher than the one I have to pay to listen to.
Thank-you for posting these!
Delainey C haha same here! And I go to one of the top universities! (Most of the teachers are top notch but in this ancient philosophy class this teacher is not very good at explaining the material!)
Thanks! I'm really glad to have my videos and teaching placed in that high tier!
Yes, right now, no plans to do the Phaedo or the Symposium (there's some others I'd really like to do as well) -- I have some other topics in the works -- but the next time around I teach Intro, I'm focusing it on the theme of Love and Friendship, so I'll do the Symposium
Wow! I did not see all these issues coming into play in the piece. It looks so simply--the piece--yet it is sooooo deep. Thumbs up!
Yes, Plato has been pretty influential over the years in the development of later literature.
I'd say that, if you're properly motivated, no, you can defintiely read Plato as a a teen-ager. You may not understand everything completely, but it takes quite a while for that to be the case, even for adults.
Once again another well done lecture. I started off trying to help my sister in an intro-philosophy class she's talking online. Now I'm watching them more for my own edification. Thanks again.
Well. . . you can keep still on reading him. I'm not a Hobbesian by any means, but I still very much enjoy reading him, writing on him, and teaching his thought. There's loving a thinker because you identify with his/her perspective. Than there's loving him/her because of something like admiration or respect
Thank you very much for uploading these. I'm currently in my first year of philosophy and I find having different lecturers' perspective on the material helps me develop my own far better.
You're very welcome! Glad the videos are helpful
Thanks! I'm glad that you like the videos and my teaching style. It's unfortunate, but not everyone who is a good scholar is necessarily a good teacher -- it took me a while to learn how to engage my students well (including teaching in a prison -- but that's another story!)
thank you so much Dr. Sadler for helping us understand philosophy of ancient Greece! You are truly an extremely helpful professor!
You're very welcome -- and, it's actually good that the prof is specific, I'm guessing. Far better than just vague "tell me what so-and-so's main points are"!
Thucydides is an old favorite of mine -- very influential on Hobbes -- but not a guy I'd generally get to teach in a Philosophy curriculum, unfortunately.
I am taking a Philosophy course at a different University, and I have found several of your videos to be very informative. Thanks for sharing!!
A Fun college lecture with active classroom interactions that forms a relatable and modern discussion on themes from the essay, a good companion video to reading the Crito. Lots of philosophical ground to cover for a short essay: Life Vs Good Life (virtue), Morales, applying reason in the face of adversity, societal laws and heritage. Also an interesting digression into whom one can turn to with moral dilemmas. One things for sure, Socrates took his social contract with Athens to heart.
You're welcome.
It's an interesting question to consider. Now, if what you mean is whether Plato has those kinds of situations and crowds in mind, I'd say probably no. He tends to speak of "hoi polloi" - the many, rather than the "okhlos". And, he's writing this 3 1/2 centuries before Christ.
But. . . if we want to think about the question more broadly -- how should we see "the many", as opposed to the wise, the one who knows -- well, that could be interesting to explore
It's nice to be able to see a different professor's perspective on this. Subscribed
Thank you Gregory, I really enjoy these videos you create. The philosophy class I'm taking is all online so the content and insight you provide for no additional cost is greatly appreciated! I have and will continue to share these with my fellow classmates.
Glad the videos have been useful for you -- you're welcome!
I'm not sure I buy the argument here -- which is an interesting one. Socrates seems to be suggesting that he is the gadfly for his city, not for just any city that he happens to live in.
Had he wanted to accept exile at the very time he was making that argument, he could have, but chose not to -- in fact, was very clear that he would accept death rather than stop doing philosophy.
As to the other cities, it's not the many of the other cities who would be unwelcoming, it's their own Laws
Yep -- it's like being offered "au jus sauce" at restaurants. It used to drive me just nuts, and then I'd correct servers -- but realized after a while that it was just going to keep on happening, unless I started frequenting a better class of restaurants!
I think the issue that you're raising can be looked at two ways. If we do look at it chronologically, then right, there's not much more to be said.
If we're thinking about the crowd/many as such, then we've got a broader issue to examine
Thank you Sir, Im from Argentina and I'm benefiting from your invaluable work for free. Hugely thankful for the internet and for your channel.
Glad you're finding the videos useful!
You're very welcome! Glad the video was helpful
@FoolishOrc Good question -- which touches on an issue about Socrates debated since ancient times. I do think that the surface-level contradiction turns out not to be a real one. If you look carefully at the Apology, it does appear that Socrates is making implicit knowledge claims in that dialogue.
Interestingly, in the Crito, you're right, he does appear to know quite a few matters-- but he doesn't claim to be the wise man explicitly.
I'm in 10th grade so I don't have access to philosophy class, but I'm really into philosophy so i self teach. Your videos help me took look it in other ways so thanks
+the pokemon professor You're very welcome!
I failed GCE English from college with a D Grade in 1999 at the age of 24.
I am Very Clever but I find it difficult to read books.
I have tried to read Exploring The Earth and Moon by Patrick Moore. I managed it but I forgot most of what I had read immediately after I had read it.
I am a Poetry and Music fan!
Was Plato an egocentric?! Seriously!
You're welcome -- glad they were helpful
Thanks! I'd say there were probably about 20-25 students in that classroom. Depends on how many of them were absent that day.
Yeah -- that was early in our videorecording days (well, a year ago. . .) -- before we got some better flipcams
Nooooo!!!!!! It ended so early, Great Stuff! You made me understand Socrates
You're very welcome.
Great lecture.
On reading Crito, it struck me if the whole dialogue was an elaborate setup for a complex dilemma, and Crito and the Laws the two ends of the dilemma.The purpose of the dilemma is to demonstrate that the intention to do good and not hurt others as a principle will result in a dilemma. Correct me if I am wrong.
Socrates says.
1-As One should always do good, no matter what(Principle I)
2-One should never hurt anyone (Principle II)
3-Crito says not escaping will make you do evil, as you support evil when you do have the chance to escape.You will hurt your friends and children.(Violates Principle I and II)
4-Laws say escaping will wrong the state, and its people,will result in anarchy.(Violates principle I and II)
5-Hence, Socrates, in wish to always do good and not hurts others, has no choice at all.
6-So Socrates takes no choice. He is just left there dangling.
What do you think?
I think that the dialogue clearly has Socrates saying at the end that the arguments of the laws are convincing for him, and that Crito's arguments are unconvincing. So, I don't agree with your quite interesting reconstruction
Gregory B. Sadler Thanks for the reply. Your lectures are great. They are really helpful for people like me who want to study philosophy on their own.
Your teaching helped me in my philisophy class. Thank you !
Really enjoyable to watch this class.
Glad to read it
Good stuff. Was Crito a foreigner though? I thought he was from Alopeke, a deme of Athens.
Well, it's a more or less hour-long class. I suspect that with this one, the flipcam might have shut off, though -- they do that if they get too hot or the battery runs out
hello Mr. Sadler
what do you think about the contradiction between: Socrates saying he knows nothing (especially in the Apology) and the way he appears to be certain of many things in Crito?
do you think it is possible to argue that a contradiction doesn't exist?
is it about distinguishing between what you know and what you don't? knowledge/truth as opposed to opinions? or is it about realizing you cant know everything, or know the greater truth?
i would be grateful for some general direction.
Thanks! Yes, sometimes it's good to get multiple "takes"
Socrates has already proven himself as a war hero in his youth. So he had already been tested. As an old person you are not motivated by what youth are motivated by.
Socrates laid out his beliefs and how those beliefs motivated him to not fear death.
Unfortunately, no -- I taught prison classes in Indiana, and then for a semester in North Carolina.
does plato have a large influence on literature? im a grade 10 student (probably early for plato?) and i read some of the dialogues and books by him because i find them fascination but i really love english. i was just wondering what influence plato has had on literature and if i should continue reading some of his works, or if they will just confuse me because i may not properly understand them yet? or they may not help me at all in any english courses. great video btw, thanks!
Quite possibly -- you're imagining Snowden as Socrates? That would make a good case for next time I teach this sort of material
Long shot but I'm currently studying Classics in England and we're doing a philosophy module (which is why I'm watching this video) and my lecturer also taught Philosophy at a high security prison (San Quentin to be precise), I don't suppose the other person teaching was called Dr Lampe? (like I said it's a long shot but I thought I'd ask)
Yep, just about every one of Plato's works are like that
Okay Dr. Sadler, as a result of watching these easily accessible videos, I find myself trying to read Thomas McEvilley's "The Shape of Ancient Thought". (I bought it two years ago but haven't had the academic fortitude to read it until now.) There goes my life for the next few months... You wouldn't happen to have any comments on that piece of work would you?
good lecture :)
just out of curiosity, how many students sit in that classroom?
i take a philosophy class in Mercy and this video makes me realize you get what you pay for. i should have went to Marist! Very helpful. Thank you so much and btw im the only one in my class that feels he deserved to die! haha There was alot more going on at that time then revealed by Plato!
The concept of breaking the ethical rules for events or persons is called “situational ethics”.
No, that's just one sub-class of that.
Philosophy is to be in the haystack of our thoughts searching for the sharpest piece of hay, for this haystack has no needle.
I haven't read it, so sorry, no comments to make on my end
Thanks!
Why does it end suddenly? I was really getting into it.
Well, prison teaching programs are shrinking in the US, so the odds of such a coincidence actually do get better
Sir is there a second part to this lecture ?
No
If only Crito had reminded Socrates of his previous gadfly argument, and that if he escaped from prison he might be a force of good in that sense, if not in Athens then in a like city. I mean, by escaping from Athens, I concede it would go against their sentence of death, but it would achieve the same effect: ridding Athens of Socrates. Of course, as Socrates pointed out, he might not have been warmly welcomed in other well-ordered cities, but should he let the opinions of the many affect him?
I thought it would have been a big coincidence but just wanted to check!
Great lecture. Thank you.
+Abril Noga Thanks!
Oh how I wish that ethics, and philosophy were taught in grade school and high school. Many of our lives would be completely different. So many ideas unheard of by people who need them the most, the poor.
Yes. It would be good for many kids
Would you say the poor are an example of Plato's Allegory of the Cave?
Awesome Job.
Thanks!
Thank you so much for this video!! I'm a sophomore in college, taking my first philosophy class and I'm writing my first essay over the Apology and the Crito and the contradiction Socrates makes when he talks about never ceasing to practice philosophy despite the law's orders and then stating in the Crito that breaking the law or going against the country is unjust... so this was really helpful in understanding the Crito more. You are a great teacher and it seems like your students love you also! Thank you, keep it up! :)
You're very welcome! Glad you found the lectures helpful for you
I love this guy's lectures! It's a shame his institution forces him to wear a tie. He'd look even better without it.
How is Athens as just as Socrates lays out when Crito has said he has already bribed the guards?
Socrates doesn't say Athens is just.
I'm confused and I have read Plato many times. What confuses me is that Socrates is saying he will not go along with Crito's plan because Athens raised him. He was a "homebody" he never left, but you're now saying the laws did not work for him. How is this so?
@@sportsfan120577 Buddy, something went wrong with your reading then.
Start with the Apology. This is really basic stuff. Not going to spend more time here on this
Ok sorry to bother you. I will reread Apology again. Thank you.
Profesor, my question here, is Socrates bothered by the fact that the majority of his society disapprove?
+Qusay Sakhy answered in the course of the discussion in the video
So who should we trust for the question what's just or unjust if not self or parwnts? The laws ? what if we don't like the law. The video is not of the complete lecture
Here you go - ruclips.net/video/xgf2jztjaF4/видео.html
Sorry to comment on an older video. Regarding your discussion around 57:30 about what we owe to a society that protects us, educates us etc... and your example of nurses and doctors. It seems to me that Socrates/Plato make the mistake of lumping the whole fabric of society together into a single lot, rather than accounting for a diversity of just/un-just laws and officials. Take our current worldwide pandemic situation for example. We are all immensely thankful for our doctors and nurses, and our medical institutions for fighting the pandemic, providing care to those who are sick. But while these individuals may be acting selflessy to protect the common citizen, it is strange to think that they are tied to government entities and institutional bodies that may have questionable policies. On the one hand you can argue that it is thanks to our govt that most of us are safe, on the other hand you can argue that the govt is at fault for not reacting appropriately.
Did Plato account for the concept of such a government, where the legal framework may be there to protect you but there are certain agents or individuals within that framework who don't always make the correct decisions?
I think you can easily read Plato's works and fairly quickly arrive at an answer
or maybe a reference
Thanks in advance!
This is an old lecture, but I was wondering why you used MLK as an example? Imo the laws were not working for him or any people of color for that matter. The South was the antithesis of how Socrates felt about Athens. Socrates seemed like a staunch nationalist to me.
The laws weren't working for Socrates. And, he wasn't a "staunch nationalist". You should probably read more Plato
You can’t compare nationalism with the ideas of a city state like Athens. They were held together first as Athenians before they were held together as “Greeks” like they were more under Alexander the Great.
There was a distinct cohesion based on them being one city