Owen Ryan a socialist that fell away from his ideologies in later life. He wrote about totalitarianism and warned against it in any form. Read further, think better.
very true, you can tell a lot about a person by the way they write, its a glimpse into the inner workings of their mind... and the strength or lack there of their mental faculties.
@@Melville1800s Haha! Blubbering..If you ever listened to Hitchens, which iam guessing you do because you commented on his video, you would know that that is exactly what he teaches " It's not what you think, it's how you think" so your point is garbage, especially the troll ass way you said it..
@@mja91352 You bring up another example of bad faith argument. Thanks for arguing against something else you yourself set up in order to demean the first thing by association. Great irony and your lack thereof, you demonstrate oh clever one.
You can't force people to change their opinion, but you can educate yourself and present what you learned in a manner that is acceptable to anyone willing to listen without compromising your own principals and beliefs. I'm so grateful to have lived and learned from one of the best teachers this world had to offer.
um.. your a racist....jews were enslaved in history many many times...where is your voice for thier reparations...oh wait... i forgot, you already stated your black and only care about blacks....
Let me help you. His advocacy of the Iraq war is not missed by millions of Iraqis. His serial plagiarism is not missed by numerous authors. There I did it for you!
@@jugheadsrule But is his advocacy of the Iraq war missed LESS than Saddam Hussein himself...or the 3/4 MILLION Iraqi's in whose death or "disappearance" Saddam was directly implicated? By the way, out of curiosity, are YOU an Iraqi, or simply an anti-war activist who presumes to speak on their behalf? As for serial plagiarism, I'd be more than happy to examine any evidence you'd care to present. Either way...See Also: Ad Hominem.
@@OmniphonProductions It can't be ad hominem if it's true can it, you supercilious clown. Saddam was a lame duck by 2003. NFZs had wiped out most of his airforce and air defences so he wasn't a threat to anyone. In any case, the justification for the invasion was that he was connected with 9/11 and that he had WMD. Both provably false. And the result of that invasion? 1million plus dead, the birth of ISIS and the destabilisation of the whole region. As for his serial plagiarism, it's well documented, get off your arse and research it yourself. Here's a starter, and his most well known plagiarism, his book on Thomas Paine had copious amounts lifted from a book on Paine written by John Keene, who has personally acknowledged my publicizing Hitchens copying of his work.
@@jugheadsrule WOW! Defending an ad hominem with another ad hominem. Impressive. In RETROSPECT, you're right that Saddam was not a threat to anyone by 2003. However, his refusal to allow UN weapons inspectors to actually do their jobs...as well as no small amount of sabre rattling and his consistent violation of no fewer than 14 conditions of the Desert Storm Cease Fire Treaty...indicated otherwise AT THE TIME. For that matter, American, British, and French Intelligence agencies all concluded that he DID likely have WMD. I have no choice but to agree that this proved false, but we didn't know that BEFORE going in. Moreover, while Saddam had nothing to do with 9-11, that event began a Global War On Terror, and...considering the 3/4 million Iraqis in whose deaths Saddam was directly implicated (complete with mass graves discovered only AFTER the Iraq invasion), his military strikes on Iraqi Kurds in the north, and the billions of U.N. Oil For Food dollars that were diverted to...among other things...building palaces FOR Saddam, the man was (by any objective metric) a terrorist, AND the world is a better place without him. As for the total body count, if groups like Al Qaeda and the Taliban hadn't IMPORTED combatants INTO Iraq (from Saudi Arabia, Jordan, and Iran...for starters), it would have been over far sooner with far fewer casualties. That said, the biggest failure of the U.S. in that respect is that nobody ANTICIPATED such importation of enemy combatants DESPITE the events of 9-1-1, and nobody ANTICIPATED the rise of ISIS (or any other terrorist group) to fill the power vacuum left by Saddam's removal. In that respect, you and I actually agree that it was tragically ill-planned, ill-conceived, and not _immediately_ necessary. HOWEVER, as mentioned earlier, we didn't know that BEFOREHAND. As for the plagiarism, thank you for actually providing somewhere to look. Far too many people online would leave it with the rude and unproductive, "Get off your arse and research it yourself." The person MAKING the claim is responsible for providing EVIDENCE. It's not the job of the person HEARING the claim to research whether its true, and in the ABSENCE of such provided evidence, the rational position is NOT to believe the claim. In this case, you have, at least, given me something. Actual links would be better, but anything is better than nothing. With that in mind, what did Keene specifically say about your efforts? ("...personally acknowledged," doesn't tell me much.) P.S. You still haven't answered whether you're Iraqi or not. Call me a racist, but your deep knowledge of Thomas Paine literature leads me to believe you're not.
@@jugheadsrule while I agree with the Iraq pay of your comment (Hitchens himself regretted his backing) is love to see a citation for the second part of your comment
@@johndallara3257 - all the pro-Hitchens arguments (and Hitchen's himself), *not that you have made any!* .. are subjective and lack essence. What Hitchens is doing to you all (has been doing), is solely for the purpose of selling his books. Hitchens is a conman with a rich vocabulary that can manipulate the minds of people like you (the uneducated and the misinformed). I believe too, Christianity is a fake religion but is the easiest to debunk and that's why Hitchens attacks Christianity all the time, it makes him look good! But trust me when I tell you this, there's hardly any difference between the du mb christians who give money to the Church, and you bu ms who give money to Hitchens (or show support for him) .. this is what I meant when I said _"S T F U,"_ I just wanted to save space & time and being that you all Hitchens fan[atic]s are so _”smart”_ (LOL), I was expecting you gonna understand.
I disagree with Hitchens here, reparations for slavery is taking money from people who didn't own slaves and then giving that money to people who werent slaves.
mbbroker79 Haha you've got to be joking right? You want to hold out your hand now and demand reparations from the American people who are of different backgrounds and had Nothing to do with slavery 100 years ago?
"... to the principles of free inquiry and open debate, that goes up to make a great university..." For his sake I am glad he is not still around to witness the disaster that we are experiencing now.
@@jehjeh37111 Which is precisely why he'd be so effective today. As odious as Trump clearly is, the bigger problem is in the Liberal establishment, over which the Clintons wield so much power. They're the ones directing the identity politics community towards utterly destroying discourse in the Left.
He himself was a political agitator in his years at Oxford. A Marxist no less. I suspect, though we will never know, and I humbly admit my conclusion is speculative (something I note incidentally that you haven’t done), you might have been disappointed with his views on the current campus activism. What irks me most about internet commentators is how righteously they claim to know the thoughts of the dead. We see this everywhere: F1 fans claim to know what Senna would have thought of the current grid, film fans claim to know what Walt Disney would have thought of his company’s current output, and here we see Hitchens fans simply assuming he would have agreed with them no matter what. It’s wrong-headed, and demonstrates the same unthinking fatuousness he is on record as having opposed through his life.
@@hughtubecube You appear very much to assume most Hitchens fans are from the right - attacking so called 'Marxist' agitators on the left. For all Hitchens' contradictions over Iraq and The War Against Terror, he did so from the Trotskyist tradition of opposing the Stalinism of Saddam and a Marxist rejection of Theocratic Islamism. That this lead him into the cul-de-sac of supporting US imperialism is the great shame that he could never admit to. His Neocon admirers tried to own him but he stated many times he'd never been any kind of Conservative, he supported the US as the only successful revolution still standing. It's not enough to simply say Hitchens would have opposed identity politics activism due to his disgust at the Clintons or anything so fatuous. I strongly suspect he would have recognised the religious fervour in SJW puritanism leading to public denunciations without evidence and so on. The fetishization of identity is something Marx would have said allows the bourgeoise to divide and rule. It's built purely upon a perceived level of oppression in contrast to level of privilege - disabled/muslim/black/lesbian vs straight/white/male. Such a politics takes all the struggles and injustices people face, the energy that might be used to fight for a better world, and channels that all away from defeating class structures towards correcting 'privilege'. At this point it's worth noting that your class is abstract which means it can be challenged and dismantled, whereas privilege is inherent to you if you're a straight white male - whether you like it or not. And in this video, Hitchens identifies injustices that can be set right, especially as they continue to hold sway over the globe - while being very clear he opposed the fundamentalist mindset of repaying all debts throughout history - to empty the museums as it were. As he would have put it - it's crucial to understand how to think, not what to think. Hitchens would most likely have eviscerated the Orwellian nightmare of SJW activism and the Kafkaesque campaigns of MeToo/TimesUp. But equally if he were still around I'm sure the lightweights such as Jordan Peterson would not have come to prominence. Peterson wouldn't stand a chance against Hitchens, something he got a taste of while being effortlessly taken apart by Slavoj Zizek recently..
"Torrent of bad faith...lolllll "when people begin to introduce the irrelevant the non sequitur and the generalizations .. you can tell you're onto something". Lollll the Hitch
When he said that all I could think of was some of the bad rationalizations in the youtube comments. I've read a few times what about the Arabs who practiced slavery in the same time period.
@@writerconsidered Hmm. Arabs have practised slavery since Sumerian times, as have many, if not most others. Slavery of one sort or another is still widely practised today. During the times that the American slave trade was going, Arabs, Europeans and other African tribes participated.
I don't think that people who are being collectively assigned the guilt of historical events based on their race can be automatically dismissed as bad faith actors. Hitchens is basically just dismissing all arguments which attempt to contextualize the absurdity and injustice of the notion of transgenerational race-based reparations which I think is intellectually dishonest at best, and plainly malevolent at worst.
James Brewer that’s not the point!!!!!!!!!! There has been WRONG done to a people of the ABSOLUTE worst kind and continues today. No there fathers aren’t alive but they’re decedents who are DIRECTLY affected by the actions of MANY countries and should be made whole. I mean this isn’t even a hard one. Did you watch the video???!!!! “Was there a rape a theft a wrong done?, can and should it be made whole?” Simple!!!!!!!!! Wtf dude
@@ischar23 Western society is built on the idea of the individual. As soon as you start punishing individuals based on what group you think they belong to every thing would collapse. Do you go to jail if your father steals a car? If you did, damn near everyone would be in prison. The whole innocent until proven guilty idea is out the window also. Plus, in this scenario, it is actually impossible even if you attempted to do it. I'm second generation here, my ancestors were surfs in Europe. Most slaves from West Africa were originally captured and sold by other African's. I'm white, no slaves owned by my family. Many Black people's ancestors were slave traders. Gonna try to figure out everyone's family history to see if they were the guilty or the victims?!? Or just say they are guilty or victims based on skin tone?
My Irish ancestors came to the u s in the 1840s. If, if. They had food stamps ,subsidised housing and interest free loans i would probably be very wealthy,
@Mikkel The Red. Ah, but did the Irish have to go through slavery, then share cropping, then Jim Crow, all at gun point and threat of lynching, my racist little friend? I'm just kidding, I would never be your friend. I hope no one else is either, because you're a terrible person.
@Erik Mikkelsaar because, as white people, they would have been permitted to do so. To buy property wherever they could afford and participate in business. They were permitted to build an economic base. To be properly educated. They werent just "freed" in rags and told to pull up their bootstraps. But you already knew that. You just chose to ignore it.
Jeff Thompson I can only imagine what he'd have to say about the left in its current state at the moment. And, I agree... one of the most intelligent, articulate and outspoken defenders of TRUE liberalism. Have you heard Douglas Murray? He's not Hitchens but he's not bad, either.
I think dismissing the generalization of his argument about the Parthenon Marbles is not as easy and as he states. Is there really that stark of a difference between classic Greek artifacts and Pharaonic Egyptian ones (or something you might imagine in between)? There are no Pharaonic Egyptians around, but neither are there Ancient Hellenic polis-dwellers, so how can modern Christian Greeks claim that piece justly as their own, but modern Islamic Egyptians respectively can't? In both cases the artifact's meaning is symbolical, not religious anymore, their meaning far from their original context, and there is a difficult case for historic civilizational continuation and claims to heritage. Sure, details can make a crucial difference, but with regards to his argument in general terms they may not at all.
If someone stole your great grandfather's property which had been passed down the generations to more immediate family, you would have a just claim to demand it to be restituted. However if your great grandfather robbed someone else and seized their property and in return that property got taken away by a third party, then that claim becomes a bit weaker, although you are still allowed to make it. While modern day Greeks aren't Hellenistic Greeks, they are still largely their descendants due to the continuous process of shaping Greek society as we know it today. Historical evidence suggests the process was a lot less smooth in Egypt as Arabs were not just conquerors, but also forced the local population to assimilate into their society, through enforced Islamisation, rape, murder, etc. Admittedly, both modern day countries would still like their artifacts returned due to the economic benefits of increased tourism, but ultimately only the Greeks can play the culture card.
In some sense I do understand, but you're dealing with a Ship of Theseus problem here, and everyone's answer varies bases in what they think constitutes a continual identity. In my case, I think both the Greeks and Egyptians should be returned their artifacts- not necessarily because they were taken from the exact same people as those who sculpted the original artworks, but because they were taken from Greeks and Egyptians (1800s) who are arguably the same today. Whether or not they can claim heritage, they can certainly claim lost revenue from tourism and sovereignty over whatever is dug up on their territory.
@@LancesArmorStriking & @Nikola Langov Mhmh, both valid points. Thanks. I wonder how this relates to the question of seized land, and "formal" reasons why and how people in general were dispossessed of somthing, e.g. during a war. I guess, giving some symbolical items back is easier and the sentimental value of having had them lying around in a museum for a few generations weighs much less than settlers' claims to land, which was conquered in an "unjustified" war (obviously a never-ending question in itself), and then been occupied for a similar time. Psychologically, people are loss averse, and in this case having lived on and "owned" land passed down from your grandparents is practically something else, and involves living individuals much more immediately than ownership of some items by a trust or a state or a museum (simply in psychological terms), but I think there is still a problem of distinguishing these things categorically, if we regard lost ownership, potential, revenue etc. in that way. Seems to be a slippery slope.
I think the analogy is rather devoid of logic in its entirety. Some artifact that some state (or state's agent) seized from another culture centuries ago could be returned as restitution. In this case, there would not be collectivized guilt. It would be understood that the entire English ethnic group, for example, was not collectively guilty of stealing the Parthenon Marbles and bringing them to London. They were taken by the English monarchy and brought there. The English may have benefited from it being there, but it was by no inherent collectivized fault of their own that it was there. Taking this example and comparing it to the enslavement of Black Africans by Europeans is filled with a multitude of logical inconsistencies. First, it was not the entire "white society", as Hitchens argued, that is responsible for the slave trade, slavery, racist laws, etc. 98% of European American families did not own slaves, and many among them were not supporters of slavery as an institution. It benefited the wealthy aristocracy almost exclusively. As an institution, it actually hurt poor European immigrants because there was less need for cheap labor as a result of it. Moreover, many European Americans are the descendants of immigrants who came to the U.S. after emancipation. Some came from countries that didn't even partake in colonization or the slave trade, such as Poland. Add on top of this that not all African Americans are descended from freed slaves. Some of their descendants even partook in slavery themselves against their own people in the New World. So at the end of the day, what reparations represents is the notion that ALL European Americans, regardless of their ancestry, are guilty. It is not just "sins of our father," it is sins of our neighbor, our kings, our Congress, of ANYONE who belonged to our racial group who partook in these historical actions. It is a form of transgenerational racialized guilt against those of European descent and transgenerational racialized victimization of those of African descent. That said, how could reparations ever be justly implemented? Just think of the logistics of such an endeavor and how fraught with incompetence and injustice it would be. If using tax dollars, then the African Americans would essentially just be paying themselves reparations. If a racial tax was assessed, it would be a gross and obvious violation of the equal protection clause of the 14th amendment, which, ironically, is the amendment which also naturalized freed slaves as American citizens. That is why reparations for slavery can never be just...or legal...in the United States. Hitchens would minimalize and mock my argument as "white whining," but really, there is just simply no logical or justifiable way to implement reparations based on race, even if the idea seems virtuous at face value.
@@googleisskynet7312 Hey, this wasn't really what I was discussing, but I'll just accept your point here. However I have to say, I think you make a bit a categorical error. Reparations in the case of US-American slave descendant or in many other cases, are not intended (by any sane person) as a punishment because of some alleged inherited collective guilt. If this were so your point would be correct, but without rewatching this video, I would say generally such propositions including that of Hitchens' would frame them as a form of affirmative action, to make up for past discrimination, which has implications to this day. I don't want to discuss the intricacies of such policies at all, but I think at least in that regard your point is correct: Ethnic boundaries are blurry and the burden of past wrongs is difficult to quantify and account for not only on an individual level, but on a level of group or "racial identity". Should one attempt it nonetheless, and how? Different questions.
I'm overwhelmed with admiration for this man. His tact, his poise, his candor and honesty. His incredible eloquence, and here his piercing cognizance of an important issue that is often mistreated by the ignorant and biased. I would commend his consistency, but I've less respect for consistency after reading Emmerson's Self Reliance. I've never before felt in my life that person was gone too soon. My eternal admiration and respect to you Hitch!
@Miki sadly hitch just got awakened to the fact that life was eternal, that he was wrong about God and misled many, all is not over for him as he will know no rest that’s very sad 😔. Should one respect and admire a lost sinner who confused many and stood on the throne of life denying his creator, well no, one should empathise for one that is so lost and deceived and who sadly apart from a deathbed conversion perished in his sins and trespasses, hardly something to celebrate.
robert marshall nah hitchens was right. Because of him I regained my senses regarding superstition and the harm that a bad metaphysic (such as a belief in the eternal under the guise of a mind) can do. Youre incontrovertibly incorrect about Hitchens and its a damn shame you dont have the senses to see otherwise. This is just backhanded nonsense. Keep your religion to yourself. It’s foolish as was as pretentious and senseless.
@@captur69 I was presumptuously projecting through the medium of Imagination. I've seen so many admirers of Hitchens wishing him "RIP" and I'm momentarily apoplectic at the meaninglessness to an Atheist. He's not "resting" - owing to a sudden attack of death. Hitchens' wisdom was imparted universally and The Planet was better for him.
@@advancedchiropractic667 Isn't there some irony here (if you think he belongs in hell)? An atheist is proposing a very Christian act. It may be as simple as acknowledging the accurate history.
and yet another fuktard religious idiot trying topush their shit on others.. even after they are dead... you should be ashamed of yourself but with your delusions youll never grap that fact..@@advancedchiropractic667
@@advancedchiropractic667 the lowest pit of hell is reserved for people who lead astray the Lord's children... He's certainly getting bent over by Satan right now
Yeah how dare white people "whine" when somebody wants to confiscate parts of their wealth solely for being white? Truly shocking display of immature "whiners".
I don’t know if the present and future would be the same if he hadn’t already been here. A truly brilliant mind, and I agree with the heart of your statement, we need him now more than ever
The Elgin marbles is a big red herring. The Greeks at the time had no interest in or respect for their history, and had destroyed countless artifacts to make lime, costing the world inestimably dearly in lost knowledge. The Elgin marbles were about to suffer the same fate. They weren't stolen, they were rescued, for all of us. Reparations for slavery is a difficult one for me. The suffering was terrible, but those who experienced it are long dead, as are those who perpetrated it, and the many Africans who enabled it because it wasn't just a white on black thing. And in fact black on white slavery continued until the turn of the 20th century when the barbary pirates were wiped out, so white families from the Mediterranean all the way up to the coast of Britain have slavery in their families right up to the edge of living memory and as such have perhaps an even more legitimate claim. However, I believe that nobody is responsible or should be held accountable for the crimes of their ancestors (even when an individuals ancestors can be proved to have been involved). Nor should a nation be held responsible for events where no participant or victim still lives. If we are to hold people responsible for historic events, how many generations must pass before it becomes silly? I live in the north of England - does that mean, therefore, that I can claim reparations from Denmark for the actions of the Vikings? Or Rome for the invasion of 43ad? We're not even meant to hold Germany responsible for the blitz, a mere 7 decades ago.
They were rescued but they ought to go back. They belong in Athens, somewhere near the Acropolis and the Parthenon, not in a British museum. It is as simple as taking ancient heritage back where it came from and where it belongs The Parthenon is still there, at least partly, and there is a thread of continuity between the ancient and modern world in this case. It is not like ancient Hellas simply disappeared altogether and was miraculously recovered. Reparations for slavery is a far more controversial and impractical concept, obviously.
+Ishmael Forester Yeah I've no argument there, and it would be a nice gesture for archaeologists and historians in both nations to come together with a mutually beneficial compromise, as I think you hinted at in another post. I just felt that the often-implied idea that our ancestors went around essentially raping antiquity is at best misleading and at worst an outright libel that needs challenging.
Evil Twin I don't think they raped antiquity but they certainly raped the present in their day. I don't think anybody intelligent has any illusions about imperialism generally, not just the British, anymore.
No interest in their history? Well, during the battles to take Athens, the Turks were melting down the lead rods holding up the pillars of the Parthenon for bullets. The Greeks were so worried about this they offered the Turks bullets if they would only stop melting down the material. Were there a lot of Greeks who weren't aware of their history? Or perhaps weren't even really Greeks? Sure. However, there were quite a few who did.
No right thinking person believes in or endorses imperialism now, but nobody is responsible for the actions of their ancestors, and anyway you are conflating two seperate and unconnected issues here. Look, the fact is that there isn't a single museum in the world that does not contain items stolen from another culture. If you endorse giving the Elgin Marbles back, then the Met, for example, should give Britain back all the medieval armour that the people did not give them permission to take, or pretty much every museum should return their mummies to Egypt, a country that doesn't have the space or resources to look after them properly (artefacts in Cairo museum are shockingly badly restored and conserved). Or maybe middle eastern artefacts should be returned to Isis, the Taliban and Al Qaeda. We've all seen the respect they have for antiquities.
For me to be for reparations for slavery, someone needs to answer the following questions. Why should I pay for the sins of my ancestors? If I should pay for the sins of my ancestors who were slave owners, why should I not receive credit for my ancestors who fought against slavery? Why should I pay for reparations to those black people who are better off than I am? What about people who are half white and half black such a Barack Obama and Mariah Carey? Should they pay reparations to themselves?
@Omar Savory There are many factors to consider (petersonscottb brought up some of them), however, to consider the Civil Liberties Act of 1888 as a precedent is not correct. This Act gave reparations to SURVIVING Japanese individuals affected, not their descendants.
@Omar Savory Nowhere did I mention statute of limitations. Also, to equate inheritance with reparations shows ignorance on your part. Due to the logistics involved with distributing wealth to those affected by slavery, it will never happen. The best thing would be to do something similar to what you mentioned, Georgetown. Handing out money to the affected masses will only serve to lower their socioeconomic status even further. Thus, the best action would be to provide financial support to higher education, or perhaps even a lower interest rate on business loans. Increasing the education level of the masses affected, will have the result of increasing their socioeconomic level in the long run. It's not that I disagree with helping those affected, but just handing out lump sums of money is illogical. But, and this is a very big "but", how do you propose determining who can receive the financial support?
@Omar Savory Okay, but how would you suggest going about determining who gets what? If you decide to use DNA to exclude those that don't meet a "minimum threshold", you are going to open up Pandora's box, regarding unsolved crimes. So, again, what would you use to determine eligibility?
@Omar Savory I'd prefer that we work towards a nation that doesn't need reparations because there is no longer such a great inequality that they are needed.
@Omar Savory You have data that proves we shouldn't work towards a more equal society? I'll take a look at that, because if you think just giving some people some money is going to fix anything then you're nuts.
I think reparations should take the reverse form of Lee Atwater's southern strategy. If we propose to help everyone who suffers from a legacy of poverty, if that helps minorities such as blacks more, then so be it. There is so much injustice in US history, and I think the proof is in the soaring poverty rates of minorities. We need to provide them with opportunities to advance their social class, and do it under the rubric of lifting everyone out of poverty.
reparations make no sense for these reasons: 1. no one who was subjected to slavery is alive 2. not all black people descended from slaves 3. not all white people descended from slave owners 4. there were black slave owners (though very few) you can't lift anyone out of poverty by giving them handouts. there are more poor white people than black people in America, so why should the black people get help and not the white people? if you want to help, just help those who need help, don't pick and choose based on race, that's racism.
@@Atamanxxxvii Are you going to deny colonialism from the major western powers, England, France, Spain, Portugal, and others? Because that's where you get spanked, Skippy.
It's weird I always hear so much about how great this guy was but I don't think I've fully agreed with a single argument he's ever made. Yet I enjoy watching him make them.
One thing you must take away from this if nothing else is the difference in the college/university students who are listening quietly and possibly respectfully while Christopher speaks. What a difference in the habits of the students now. 14-15 years later and they now chant and protest and hurl abuse and disrupt speakers they don't want to listen to. All this in less than 15 years!
@@lawsonj39 You should watch more videos and Ben Shapiro, Milo, Charlie Kirk, Candace Owens, Dinesh D'Souza, etc. etc., always seem to have hecklers/protesters in their speaking engagements. Except for one which was done just recently by Ben where I didn't hear a single shout which was really a surprise.
@@hughtorrance8819 i think this is largely because he is taking a far left position right now. If he were taking a far right position there would be more resistance.
@@hannibalthe1st565 You could be right, I just think it's because the college/universities haven't started the far left sh*t they're doing now. A wonderful and horrifying example of this is a college professor who said the Steven Crowder was abusing him and this professor went off the deep end threatened Crowder via tweets and Crowder confronted him in the classroom where the professor got mightily embarrassed and ran away to the Dean's office for protection. The Dean of course, supported the professor despite all the evidence against him and in a follow up program Crowder was showing the tweets that the nut bag professor was sending to the college - very strange. This is what I mean about the time difference. Look what's happened at Berkeley in 2017 with the Antifa/student riot about Milo speaking - they went nuts and I just can't imagine the students in this video doing that.
Fortunate to have learned English to the point of understanding Hitchens. So miss you Professor Hitchens. Simply Succulent. I pay attention When he speaks.
My earliest Ancestors in My home country of Australia were sent here against their will as Irish Convict slaves. Do I deserve Reparations or does the colour of my skin make me not eligible?
@AridMy oldest ancestor was sent here for the charge of " uttering unholy oaths" meaning he was suspected of belonging to an organisation sworn to resist and oppose British rule in Ireland. (eg like the ribbon men) If membership could be proven death was the sentence. For Suspected resistors confiscation of property, Transportation, whipping and slavery was dished out by the English. He would have hated the British Empire as much as any Indigenous Australian ever has.
Arid Ned Kelly's father was sent half way round the world to break rocks in the scorching sun because he stole pigs to feed his family, so you think he deserved it because he was a criminal or is it because he was white?(hint: it's the latter)
The Devil is in the details. How do you calculate how much each victim class member was harmed in terms of dollars and how much each individual oppressor class member is culpable and how much he must pay.
Moreover, which members are actually within the oppressor class and which were the victims. West Africans captured and sold the majority of the slaves that ended up in America. Gonna do Ancestry DNA to try and figure out if you came from one of the people that got captured or one of them that did the capturing? Or what if your mother's side was black slave trader, but your Dads side was a slave? what the hell you gonna do them? Or are we just going by how much melanin you've got and whites with ancestors who were surfs or another oppressed people that came to North America have gotta pay also? And on and on it goes.
Did Hitch say the reparations have to actually be monetary? He does talk about the Federal Reserve and America's wealth but I don't believe he ever actually mentioned actual money. I think he is making a far more important point. One that still needs to be made and we need to be reminded of every time a Black person is killed unjustly by cops, every time a Black person is profiled by White civilians, every time a Black person is given a harsh punishment disproportionate to the crime they committed. Yes perhaps some money is in order but the question goes far deeper than mere money.
GodlessComedy What happened in the slave trade can never be repaid. "black criminals" well you do have to realize that some grow up in crime. Police would´t dare to cross their territories, school useless, parents useless. You have to give them a perspective or nothing will ever change. Can throw them in prison and pay for the rest of their lives in there. That´s simply less effective than making sure that they get a perspective. The war on drugs ruined a lot of lives. Some black people got into prison for very minor things. And once you are in there... War on drugs created a lot of misery. It also fucked up south america. USA basically did the best thing a criminal could ask for. Making drugs illegal and punished hard makes sure that drug cartels profit the most. And the US citizens paid for it. Did you know the CIA financed, armed and sold information to drug cartels? It´s not a tin hat foil story you can look it up for yourself. War on drugs is as effective as the war on alcohol was. Please read up on it, every interesting. Racism is what hurts your country the most without understanding the circumstances.
GodlessComedy Also what about "white crime" the billions in financial fraud? And political corruption, legal tax evasion tactics created by white politicians?
Dude, reparations do not make sense. Hitchens is a moron in this area. I would debate and destroy him any day of the week and have gone to toe with him in the past. He thanked me even, and said he learned something! Reparations for any group is divisive and pushed by the world wide Marxist communist effort to divide the US and destroy it.
Yep, here for the same reason, Hitch was so salient and informed about everything I've seen him in I really thought I might come here to find an intelligent argument for reparations... I was very disappointed.
In order for a fight to stop and peace to ensue, one has to be okay with being hit last, and the other live with being the one who hit last, or the fight will simply never cease.
Yes, and when victory is won, it is crucial that the victor declares victory and ends the war. If you win, but continue waging war, you will either begin the process of genocide, or provoke the other side to return to the war. Neither is good. It shows that peace and equality are not the prize, but domination, and utter destruction.
My ancestors came from Norway, and some joined the Union Army straight away. So, what of that? I have one that died while serving. So, who owes here? How do people who have no ancestors that were slaves deserve reparations?
robert vernon what, not wanting to pay for something to some one else for no good reason? How about reparations for my ancestors dying..? If your ancestors werent slaves? No reps. That would take care of a good majority of it.
Rufus Chucklebutty it’s more about the wave of economic and social damage that had been done by Jim Crow, slavery, ect.. All people of color have been affected by these things. Couldn’t get jobs, buy homes ect..
Your question implies that the only blacks who have suffered in america did so as slaves, when I'd argue that slavery was just the initial injury (Jim Crow, etc.) and more importantly that damage is still being done to this day (the ridiculously high numbers of African Americans incarcerated in this country, etc.) and thus the reasonableness of reparations to that race of humans.
@@kingirisnetwork9847 , but how is throwing money at the problem going to solve it. Wouldn't a better solution be for the black community to first gain self responsibility for the crime that exists in their neighborhood?
To who exactly? The reason there isn't a huge underclass of descendants of the arab slave trade is because they castrated the males and took the women as concubines.
@@hogwashsentinel You're wrong about all male slaves being castrated. Some weren't because those who were sometimes died. In 2010, about 100 baby boys died in the USA from a botched circumcision, a much less invasive procedure than a castration. An early sex change operation was done because of a botched circumcision.
Elgin's Marbles are a non sequitur - and he complains about his opinion on them being subjected to non sequiturs. He also says when people stoop to such tactics, then you're on to something. His entire argument is emotional - and he comments about those who satisfy themselves with emotion.
He is using it as an example to juxtapose wrongs that can easily and entirely be made right, and those wrongs that cannot be made right, at least not completely.
There is one thing ,I observe, which is the statement that these ' so' unfortunate soles were wrenched from some sort of Utopian freedom to an indeterminate slavery... Stop.! These peoples were no more free than were captives taken in their incessant wars working in their own domain. It is a proven state that the captives taken in dispute were no less captive than those non captives living in their own home environment's ,that is to say subjects of the KIng?Queen Whichever. The middle passage is the nightmare to which all succumbed and there should be recompense, but to whom?
@scott_ I'm not paying; my family owned zero slaves, and didn't arrive in the US until the 1920s. So stick your "pay reparations." Making an entire generation who've committed no crimes pay an entire generation who've never been enslaved is ridiculous. Should we blame today's German's for the Holocaust? No.
@@v-town1980 Today's Germans have very much recocsiled with their past. Personal responsibility is not the same as cultural responsibility. I don't personally use the things that a portion of my taxes go to but I pay them because it's not an elacart system. That said, I don't believe that we should pay reparations but for different reasons than you stated.
Hitch begins by saying he is going to make an argument by analogy and proceeds to relate some arguments for and against returning the Elgin Marbles. But he then goes on to repeatedly dismisses his opponents’ analogies with respect to the Marbles and reparations as efforts at distraction that reveal their bad faith. I always enjoy listening to him but this is just sophistry.
I accept neither collective guilt nor hereditary guilt. No American living today has owned or been a slave. There is no victim and no guilt. No debt exists. Force a redistribution of wealth based on ethnicity will doom ethnic reconciliation.
If the English Navy protected the Atlantic Slave Trade shouldn't they also be liable to pay Reparations? Tell me instead about the great slave revolt and how they earned their freedom, OH wait that never happened. Instead, 350,000 whites gave their lives to win their freedom. That sounds like reparation enough.
You can't say that, it goes against the liberal dogma and you will be hunted down and silenced for having an opposing opinion and thinking for yourself.
Those lives given were not to free the slaves, but to keep the Union intact. And I’m guessing you also don’t know or care to know, about all of the other injustices blacks were subjugated to after those lives were “given” and well up to today as well. Pick up a book and learn history before you shoot off at the mouth.
I'm sure that you care little about the lives given to free slaves and would rather dwell on the evils of the whites but the fact remains that the freedom of the slaves was a direct result of the civil war and the men and women (mostly white) who died. I've studied my history perhaps you should as well before you shoot off your mouth.
Fine I edited that, are you happy now Trump supporter who are freaking hypocrites, criticizing Obama and Hillary and now pretty much quiet when confronted with Trump’s lies. Why not ask Trump the same thing. Why lie? You are either lying or ignorant. Which is it?
Niall Colbeck get a life you embarrassing piece of shit. I did the edit to make you all happy, and you still sound like a sore loser afraid of facing the truth that the president is a fucking racist and whiny loser. What else do you want to be quoted properly “I don’t take any responsibilities?”
This is the first time I've heard Hitch make absolutely no sense whatsoever. He's not even addressing the two basic questions: who pays and who gets paid?
Why don't the people who feel reparations are in order, set up a fund, let all those with guilt donate, and then mete-out the proceeds to those who feel they deserve it? This would leave-out those of us who had not a thing to do with slavery alone, and maybe we could finally shut-up the element that has haunted us.
None of us had anything to do with the slavery of centuries past. But many of us have benefited from it nonetheless. And as the speaker points out at 8:25, some of the profits of slavery are now held by public institutions.
only 1 in 10 in south owned slaves. Most of them owned only one. Thats 5% in all of the US then. Of the people alive today only 5% can trace themselves back to pre 1860s America, most have come from immigrants that came after that. so 5% of 5% which means there is almost nobody here who owes anybody anything.
@@baddog6003 >not realizing islam at one point conquered half of europe and all of northern and eastern africa. >not surprised at all basically what I'm saying is, if we had left them alone they'd probably be equal in terms of societal and economic development. Oh and they would all be arab more than likely. perhaps spreading so far that we were too
@@matthewlane9071 Matthew Allen Lane - all the pro-Hitchens arguments (and Hitchen's himself), *not that you have made any!* .. are subjective and lack essence. What Hitchens is doing to you all (has been doing), is solely for the purpose of selling his books. Hitchens is a conman with a rich vocabulary that can manipulate the minds of people like you (the uneducated and the misinformed). I believe too, Christianity is a fake religion but is the easiest to debunk and that's why Hitchens attacks Christianity all the time, it makes him look good! But trust me when I tell you this, there's hardly any difference between the du mb christians who give money to the Church, and you bu ms who give money to Hitchens (or show support for him) .. this is what I meant when I said _"S T F U,"_ I just wanted to save space & time and being that you all Hitchens fan[atic]s are so _”smart”_ (LOL), I was expecting you gonna understand.
having said that I'd argue he was suggesting was taking a chunk of money from the treasury and distributing it (to African American people who were descendants of slaves)
@@georgebyrne3825 i get that argument, but what about the 99% who never owned a slave? is taking their money away a righteous act? In my mind, compensation to long lost ancestors is too far, welcoming them fully into society allowing them to play by the same rules is justification enough... Allowing them to buy cheap government land might be a good step however...
Yes, he sure does believe in ORIGINAL SIN of what our forefather's did.....for someone who doesn't believe in the ORIGINAL SIN concept of Catholicism. I would imagine he justifies this by saying original sin in Catholicism is the original sin of a fictional character whereas the original sin of reparations is a real person from over a hundred of years ago in most places.
He was one confused individual. I would have loved to have a one on one chat with him over a cup of coffee. His views were so backwards and easily refuted that I could have taught him a lot in a very short time.
that was the weakest argument I've ever seen from him. 95% was fluff (he just mesmerized the audience with his skills of speech and history), and his real answer came down to the US Treasury made money off of it? Really? Glossed over the answer completely.
I think you just put into words the floating mist in my mind that I've been thinking of since I've seen this video. I won't go so far as to say I'm disappointed with his answer as it was, he's human too, but rather- I feel bad for being irritated with his shenanigan.
I think he was asked to defend the opposing argument, by the event organizers, for reparations and this was the best strategy he came up with. I think Hitchens would ultimately agree that there is no way to justly implement the idea and further policy, of reparations. I think he would agree that it is completely unworkable and that any vague and etherial links to "white privilege" (really in-group preference which all human beings can be subject to) are unworkable.
Hitchens, as always, makes an eloquent case that no one with a shred of moral sensibility could argue with. Certainly I do not know anyone who would disagree, let alone be able to contradict the question of whether reparations should be paid. The difficulty lies entirely within the realm of *HOW*, and I am quite disappointed to see that was not even remotely addressed in this talk.
I disagree with Hitch's rationale in that the reference to the Elgin Marbles would only be comparable if the nations of Africa wanted the decendants of it's stolen people back. This was a very poor position to take. I can't see how he could convolute "Reparation" with "Repatriation".
@Camille Desmoulins Completely irrelevant to the issue at hand and also quite wrong. Whatever the austerity policy imposed by the European Stability Mechanism--or Germany, if you can't do without your own personal Antichrist--foreclosing on art is not how national debt is collected. Nice try at a segue though. @Michael Gaspar I agree with the part about Hitchens' conflation of "reparation"/"repatriation", but I think his injunction to not "make the best the enemy of the good" still holds. As far as reparation is concerned, the once-promised forty acres and a mule (or their modern-day value equivalent) might be a good start, since this would have been wealth passed down in the families of former slaves. After all, there are 640 million acres of federal land in the US.
Not his best moment, by far. Comparing the Atlantic slave trade to the acquisition of the Elgin marbles is so ridiculous as to be insulting. Also, his statement that there is scarcely stone upon stone in Washington, D.C. that was not put there by slaves shows a sad ignorance of the history of the city in which he certainly spent a fair amount of time. Maybe one can make a good argument to reparations, but Hitchens hasn't made one here.
@@phaedrussocrates7636 To paraphrase Hitchens himself @ 3:13, when people start responding to your argument by calling you a 'shiteater', you know you're on to something.
simply saying "other people did bad things too, why are they not in trouble?" I think I ridiculous. It shouldn't matter! responsibility needs to be taken for your own actions, and what can be done to remedy the situation must be done.
@@zak1424 "responsibility needs to be taken for your own actions" But it wasn't his own actions. There exists no victim nor perpetrator of the crime you speak of in the world anymore. Meanwhile the practice of slavery is nearly abolished and outlawed world-wide today, and Africa has received unimaginable sums of money in charity throughout the last century. I'd like you to explain who is responsible for both of these things, and why they would owe anyone anything. You can argue that throwing money at Africa has not changed anything and I might even agree with you, but you must still name who handed over that money.
Instead of paying repirations to blacks,why dont they use that money to build great schools in poor areas and educate all the poor how to help themselves
Typical white supremacist they believe that black reparations should be passed out to all poor people something they would never say to a Jewish Holocaust victims. Fool, you did not enslave poor people you enslaved black people.
Have to disagree with Hitch here. There's a reason it was called the slave trade and not the slave theft. It's not like the slave traders were hunting down Africans and snatching them up. It would be one thing if that was the case, but the way it happened is that African warlords and chieftains rounded up their subjects and sold them to slave traders for rum. The slave traders were buying slaves, yes, but the African chieftains were selling them. So let's not act like white Americans (many of whom have zero slaveowners in their ancestry) are entirely responsible for slavery in North America.
Take it from a huge Hitchens fan, this is not representative of his brilliant mind. This is embarrassingly sad. Look him up on any other topic, you will be impressed
@@StephenPaulTroup This looks suspiciously like you being angry that Hitchens has put forward an argument with which you do not agree. You genuinely listened to his view and concluded it was 'embarrassingly bad'? My goodness, we clearly have different understandings of what constitutes embarrassment.
I've read one of his books and I do think he was intelligent, but I too was disappointed in this particular speech. I thought his 'white whine' comment childish bordering on offensive, and I didn't think the argument quite rang true... because it was devoid of detail. You can't talk about back pay being owed to the descendants of the dead... at least not in terms of nominal currency. And his argument about repaying a debt that can be repaid... well there are so many groups who in theory are owed money because of past injustice. Perhaps if he'd had more time to expound on how he wanted the repayment to work I might have bought his argument, I don't know.
Some people in the comment section are just ridiculous. Can you not see the clear gap between blacks and the rest of america? The living conditions and treatment of black people in america by the system obviously shows that. Stats don't lie. It was this same system that had slaves and benefited from the free labour that has created this massive gap and still continuous to widen the gap. Clearly something has to be done to fix it.
socraytes Maybe investing more into these communities. Developing better systems of education? I don't know I'm no politician but something better than what the government is doing right now
Yomamas Nekst As a nation we pay more now into education now than we've ever paid in the history of the United States yet we're falling further and further down the rankings. Explain how the federal government funding education is helping? As for the communities how can communities thrive when crime is such that business don't want to go into those communities for fear of going under. You can't just dump money on the problem but again if you could who would pay and what would they pay?
socraytes Crime is an economic symptom. On a large scale you cannot distinguish between those. In general though the west has gone so far in the wrong direction with the triumph of neo-liberalism in the last 30 years that its not just Blacks that are being stiffed, its everyone in the middle class and the working class. So the whole damned thing is going in the wrong direction so its no surprise that Blacks aren't getting miraculously saved by a system that can't even keep formerly privileged white people from suffering. Also, spending money isn't a magic barometer. Its how that money is spent thats the issue, and the policies that go with it. All this standardized testing nonsense that keeps coming up is a lot of money spent on something that doesn't improve anything.
Yomamas Nekst I have a novel idea on how to fix it. How about the blacks in America get an education and a job, marry and raise families, care for their young, eschew the life of crime and drugs and thuggery, and see how that works.
I refuse to be or feel guilty about an occurrence in history. If this country were really free as we are told we are, there wouldn't be an issue of it.
@@tomread8748 yes I did. Foreign born atheists, no matter how eloquent, don't deserve respect when they use it to guilt trip an entire country, especially without mentioning the African culpability in the issue, without mentioning the generational distance, without mentioning the current state of slavery and human trafficking. I would love to debate him or Harris about God, but God took him, denying me the opportunity. His belief system is moral when discussing politicians, but convoluted on the supernatural, because of moral subjectivity not objectivity.
@@eltonron1558 Why does where he was born devalue his comment? It's not like he had much of a choice in the matter! He wasn't able to ask his parents, as a sperm or developing foetus, whether they might consider moving to another continent just to reassure a slavery apologist on an internet site that his viewpoint is relevant because he happens to come from a random geographical location. And why can't he have a valid opinion if he's an atheist too, in a democratic discussion? Difficult for him to mention all of the things that you listed in a 10 minute time slot, and it's easy for you to do that in hindsight, but it deflects from the point he raises (which I think is mainly the reason you're posting here, isn't it?).
@@tomread8748 If he were an American, he would have privy to the American experience, and possibly the years of propagation of guilt we as Americans are supposed to submit to. Where he came from is admitted knee jerk initial reaction, however, I f I can't get reparations for my father's exposure to agent orange, if I can't get reparations for my exposure to unionized leftist fraud educators, if I can't get reparations for the horrors my grandparents suffered, at the hands of nazis, do you get where it's going? My own government is morally, and economically bankrupt, yet as a taxpayer, I'm going to be responsible for " the original sin", generations ago? Fuck no, and that is the REAL point, not that he is a foreigner, or atheist, or eloquent.
@Steven Moreno I'm not sure about their yummy tortilla recipes, but you're aware Spain was the 1st to colonize Haiti and territories in Africa, while enslaving them right..?
@elitist douche bag The Spaniards also lost the war for Mexico to the native born Mexicans so at least they got a swift and vicious kick to the groin as a down payment for an apology.
+Daxidol I have a similar list for my country.It's a bit longer though. Mr. Hitchens is wrong here.Let the past be in the past.Learn from it,true, but don't dwell on it.
MadBrainBox Your statement shows you're probably not from America, England, or France etc, but you have sympathy towards not paying reparations for this specifically. It also shows you weren't listening to the part where he talked about why African descent free labor removed the nations need to spend millions (which nowadays would be billions) of dollars to make a nation way more powerful and in America's case, help build the nation in general. The nation we are benefiting from, regardless if our family immigrated to one of these countries after slavery was over, in America's case for 400 years Africans were bred, worked to death, and in that process built a nation by labor. Once slavery was over, they weren't allow to benefit from society, nor given any equality for another 100 years and those issues still slightly carry on to this day. If you take two pictures of history in America, one of _Slavery and it's ending_. Another one of Africans Americans disproportionately living in poverty, disproportionately sent to jail/prison, and anything they do that is different than white people, laws are made to target those differences. It is boldly clear that society owes something to African Americans. The same is said for every nation that benefited from Slavery but mostly Americans. America had done this to some degree for Native Americans and I don't see many people complaining about that.
Jolly Joel I am from a country that was pillaged, occupied, had it's population repeatedly decimated and overall kept down for the past 2 millennia.We've been occupied,in turn,by the Romans,the Hungarians,the Ottomans and had a communist regime forced upon it's country that was worse than the past occupations.Not to mention the Russians treated us as the losing side in WW2 and we were forced to pay a ridiculous war debt in the for of our factories plus a massive amount of gold.After they used our soldiers as cannon fodder in the war,virtually decimating our armed forces.And communism was forced upon us with the blessing of the Western powers.And now we're treated slightly better by the EU.But only slightly. Who should I ask reparations from?We're a poor nation because of the great powers.I know exactly who to blame and I know exactly what kind of debt it is owed to us and who owes it to us.And who owes the land that should be ours but that's another story. That said,me asking to be compensated by people that did nothing wrong to me is not a fair thing to do. The simple conclusion of my little ramble is this:"The strong does what he can,the weak does what he must".My ancestors were weak and did what they had to in order to survive and the strong came and took what they wanted because they could.
I find myself agreeing with Hitchens on every occasion except twice. 1. when he said women cant be funny and 2. now. Reparations were paid in blood when North and South fought a disastrous war were thousands upon thousands were killed.
I am sorry but the rescue argument about the Elgin marbles holds - the marbles were not private property and when taken no one cared for them, in fact years later the Parthenon was used as a weapons arsenal and blown up. Elgin SAVED the Parthenon frieze, the single most beautiful work of art I have ever seen in my life. And the British Museum is a wonderful place where anyone can come view it.
@zan tarr I don't believe in such a thing as "national possessions". Also the Colorado River is a geographical element - no one removed the Parthenon Hill in Athens. What I am saying is with ISIS coming wouldn't you rush to protect Persian artefacts?
I think the idea that the British took (stole) artifacts from around the world to preserve them is flawed. They were taken as artifacts of monetary value. For example the Kohinoor diamond. There are plenty of museums in India I assume that are perfectly capable to storing the prized artifact.
@farenheit041 would you extend the same argument to the slave trade? That it was a consequence of conquest and nothing should be done about it. So anything is justified as long as it was one country conquering another?
How can Hitchens imagine that Elgin had cut down the marbles from their original position on the Parthenon ? It would have been impossible to do this and no one would have thought of doing so anymore than someone would ask for a chunk of the Great Pyramid. The point is that it had been used for target practice and as an ammunition dump . The marbles were lying round in pieces . Elgin saved what was left. The British would not have the slightest case for hanging on to them otherwise and they clearly think they do have a case. Also if the Egyptians believe quite rightly that they have a connection to their forebears who built the pyramids then why is the same not true of present day Iraqis to the Babylonians ?
Imagine using this argument for picking up and walking off with ( "saving" ) a garden implement your neighbor left out in the rain. Clearly, they had no care for the tool and you saw its potential so, therefore, you had not only the "right" to take the tool, but to refuse to return it because you decided you have the moral upper ground. No, you say, it was just laying there in the rain, you didn't care for the tool, and I will keep it in a dry place. Theft. You are justifying theft because you disagree with how the owner treated their own property.
@@mollywalts2776 Yes good point but I would not be overly pleased in those circumstamnces if the owner just accused me of theft. There is rather more to it. It would also in spite of what Hitchens says unleash a never ending demand for other stuff to be returned. Also I don't think it is a bad thing that it is distributed around . Suppose all that remained of Babylon had been in the Baghdad museum before it was bombed...
Okay. You are standing on your emotional response at being accused of theft even though you did steal the tool ? Let's take more steps. You have stolen the tool because you disagree with how it was being treated, put it safely in a dry place, THEN the neighbors property is broken into and the rest of the tools are stolen is your justification for you taking the tool you wanted BEFORE the burglary ? Would it be sad that antiquities are destroyed ? Yes, ofcourse. Can that potential destruction justify cultural theft ? No. What you are saying is that no culture can claim autonomy because someone NOT in that culture wants to be in control ( and for emotional reasons ).
Perhaps other speakers ventured into these areas but a few observations: 1. Mr. Hitchens claims the US should pay reparations for slavery but does not mention England should even though England started the practice in the US as early as 1619. The US was born into this practice and couldn't change things overnight. Yet, not a word about this aspect. 2. He frames the subject in ways that avoid important questions. For example, slavery was a legal practice. If it had been an illegal practice it would have been much smaller in scale. What precedent do you set if you punish people for doing something that was legal simply based on changing moral grounds? In addition, we have a practice in the West of not punishing the son for the sin's of the father or in this case the sins of the great grandfather being pushed on the great grandson. Except that doesn't even have it right because modern Americans have varying ancestry so only a percentage of their ancestry may have any tie to slavery if at all. This is all major departure from typical criminal and civil law so we would be creating a new precedent. 3. He ignores that genetic and/or other environmental factors are contributing to the existing divide rather than past issues with slavery. 4. Perhaps the biggest question avoided is will reparations actually heal the divide or will it widen it? Because if it becomes a practice it will create a lot of resentment and there will be repercussions that may be worse than the issue thought to be solved.
Native Americans were screwed the most because the Europeans came in and took their land and their culture. So with this where does it end? Reparations is a dumb and dangerous idea.
@@charlesgradle286 *"1. Mr. Hitchens claims the US should pay reparations for slavery but does not mention England should even though England started the practice in the US as early as 1619. The US was born into this practice and couldn't change things overnight. Yet, not a word about this aspect."* Probably because the number of slaves owned in English colonies in the US was tiny, and also because the English didn't have slavery IN ENGLAND. It was something only done in the American colonies, and mostly in the Caribbean. So, why would England today be responsible for what American colonists did, especially after they gained independence from Britain before the slave trade even became as big as it was? Secondly, the British already paid reparations for the slave trade. It took them 200 years, but the British tax-payer paid off the cost of abolition. I agree with everything else you wrote.
@@charlesgradle286 naTive Americans already receive reparations. So do Jewish Peoples and japaneese..this is not something that hasn't or isn't being done .it is okay for everyone else but dumb for black desendants of slavery..
Charles Gradle There were only about 10 million Natives in America when Columbus arrived. They didn't claim the whole continent as theirs so very little of their land was stolen. The reason they were put in reservations is because they savagely killed innocent men, women and children who settled on land the Natives didn't claim.
and, of course, reparations from the state that oversaw the transportation/importation of slaves, oversaw the slave markets, granted license for slave ownership, policed the slaves, hunted down those who escaped, etc. and, of course, to the slave and their estates. and, of course, from the state to those who suffered under the such state provisions that continued slavery via imprisonment. ... and Jim Crow laws, etc.
England should also pay reparations to the United States for 1776 and 1812. While were at it, I'm part Polish, so Germany should give me stuff. There was an "original, traceable offense" and while the situation can't be fully repaired, let's not make "the best the enemy of the good." Give me what you can Germany.
![[adult swim] - Smiling Friends Season 2 Episode 5 Promo](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/uStNEeR8LT4/mqdefault.jpg)
“If you can’t write well, you can’t think well. If you can’t think well, then other people will do your thinking for you.” -George Orwell
a fascist writing the basis of much of our anti-fascist ideology
You don't have to be highly educated to know bullshit when you see it. Some intellectuals are very obtuse in certain ways.
Owen Ryan a socialist that fell away from his ideologies in later life. He wrote about totalitarianism and warned against it in any form. Read further, think better.
very true, you can tell a lot about a person by the way they write, its a glimpse into the inner workings of their mind... and the strength or lack there of their mental faculties.
anab0lic glimpse*, thereof of*, mental*.
"Anyone can have thoughts.. many people content themselves with feelings"
Hence the popularity of 'fake outrage' on the part of conservatives.
I don't think so.
Damn you Hitch, why did you have to die on us when we need you so much
@@Melville1800s Haha! Blubbering..If you ever listened to Hitchens, which iam guessing you do because you commented on his video, you would know that that is exactly what he teaches " It's not what you think, it's how you think" so your point is garbage, especially the troll ass way you said it..
If that were the thinking, he'd probably have to stay alive for eternity ;)
@Marlon Quintana-Nieto The comment was a tribute to the man, not a literal statement. Sheesh...
God took him
@@ToraTiger26 I think he'd wish you didn't say that - ruclips.net/video/jiIA188QnIk/видео.html
"Beware of making the best the enemy of the good." Wonderful.
and not even close to being original with Hitchens
Originally a Napoleon quote I believe.
@@mja91352duh? Hitched himself said that. And the comment didn’t claim that originated with him.
@@mja91352 You bring up another example of bad faith argument. Thanks for arguing against something else you yourself set up in order to demean the first thing by association. Great irony and your lack thereof, you demonstrate oh clever one.
I may not always agree with this legend, but i always listen
ok
@@sebastianbernardo9900 your comment reminds me of a quote about non-sequiturs...wish I could recall the source
You can't force people to change their opinion, but you can educate yourself and present what you learned in a manner that is acceptable to anyone willing to listen without compromising your own principals and beliefs. I'm so grateful to have lived and learned from one of the best teachers this world had to offer.
@padzzz9377, You meant principles, not principals. Principals are headmasters of schools.
Superb, fluent, compelling
Christopher, we need you now more than ever.
Absolutely.
Absolutely someone needs to put HRC in her place
@@scan865 Hitch certainly would have done that effectively and with style.
@@scan865 maybe 3 years ago, when she was still relevant... Why her? Why not your orange angerpresident?
@@__Stitchy still a rotten bag, not my president lad, not american. I'm from a country with worse politicians than anywhere!
"Contenting yourself with feelings"
Being a "Black American ", I've always had respect for Hitchens and his views but now he gets nothing but my respect.
May he never be forgotten!
@Factual Fox ..nothing else..
lol
um.. your a racist....jews were enslaved in history many many times...where is your voice for thier reparations...oh wait... i forgot, you already stated your black and only care about blacks....
So because you agree with him, NOW, he is totally worthy of YOUR respect.
What the fuck does being a black American have to do with it
MorleyHaus Bloodlines being biased
I’m black as well
It escapes words to explain how this man is sorely missed.
Let me help you. His advocacy of the Iraq war is not missed by millions of Iraqis. His serial plagiarism is not missed by numerous authors. There I did it for you!
@@jugheadsrule But is his advocacy of the Iraq war missed LESS than Saddam Hussein himself...or the 3/4 MILLION Iraqi's in whose death or "disappearance" Saddam was directly implicated? By the way, out of curiosity, are YOU an Iraqi, or simply an anti-war activist who presumes to speak on their behalf? As for serial plagiarism, I'd be more than happy to examine any evidence you'd care to present.
Either way...See Also: Ad Hominem.
@@OmniphonProductions It can't be ad hominem if it's true can it, you supercilious clown. Saddam was a lame duck by 2003. NFZs had wiped out most of his airforce and air defences so he wasn't a threat to anyone. In any case, the justification for the invasion was that he was connected with 9/11 and that he had WMD. Both provably false.
And the result of that invasion? 1million plus dead, the birth of ISIS and the destabilisation of the whole region.
As for his serial plagiarism, it's well documented, get off your arse and research it yourself. Here's a starter, and his most well known plagiarism, his book on Thomas Paine had copious amounts lifted from a book on Paine written by John Keene, who has personally acknowledged my publicizing Hitchens copying of his work.
@@jugheadsrule WOW! Defending an ad hominem with another ad hominem. Impressive. In RETROSPECT, you're right that Saddam was not a threat to anyone by 2003. However, his refusal to allow UN weapons inspectors to actually do their jobs...as well as no small amount of sabre rattling and his consistent violation of no fewer than 14 conditions of the Desert Storm Cease Fire Treaty...indicated otherwise AT THE TIME. For that matter, American, British, and French Intelligence agencies all concluded that he DID likely have WMD. I have no choice but to agree that this proved false, but we didn't know that BEFORE going in.
Moreover, while Saddam had nothing to do with 9-11, that event began a Global War On Terror, and...considering the 3/4 million Iraqis in whose deaths Saddam was directly implicated (complete with mass graves discovered only AFTER the Iraq invasion), his military strikes on Iraqi Kurds in the north, and the billions of U.N. Oil For Food dollars that were diverted to...among other things...building palaces FOR Saddam, the man was (by any objective metric) a terrorist, AND the world is a better place without him. As for the total body count, if groups like Al Qaeda and the Taliban hadn't IMPORTED combatants INTO Iraq (from Saudi Arabia, Jordan, and Iran...for starters), it would have been over far sooner with far fewer casualties. That said, the biggest failure of the U.S. in that respect is that nobody ANTICIPATED such importation of enemy combatants DESPITE the events of 9-1-1, and nobody ANTICIPATED the rise of ISIS (or any other terrorist group) to fill the power vacuum left by Saddam's removal. In that respect, you and I actually agree that it was tragically ill-planned, ill-conceived, and not _immediately_ necessary. HOWEVER, as mentioned earlier, we didn't know that BEFOREHAND.
As for the plagiarism, thank you for actually providing somewhere to look. Far too many people online would leave it with the rude and unproductive, "Get off your arse and research it yourself." The person MAKING the claim is responsible for providing EVIDENCE. It's not the job of the person HEARING the claim to research whether its true, and in the ABSENCE of such provided evidence, the rational position is NOT to believe the claim. In this case, you have, at least, given me something. Actual links would be better, but anything is better than nothing. With that in mind, what did Keene specifically say about your efforts? ("...personally acknowledged," doesn't tell me much.)
P.S. You still haven't answered whether you're Iraqi or not. Call me a racist, but your deep knowledge of Thomas Paine literature leads me to believe you're not.
@@jugheadsrule while I agree with the Iraq pay of your comment (Hitchens himself regretted his backing) is love to see a citation for the second part of your comment
Hitchens always makes a reasoned case, how he is missed.
STFU Dumbass!
Wow.
Somebody triggered someone with words
@@aneily
Davieboy did a White Whine...
@@Davieboy-dovbear Judging by your well thought out reply you are probably an english teacher from California, tenured?
@@johndallara3257 - all the pro-Hitchens arguments (and Hitchen's himself), *not that you have made any!* .. are subjective and lack essence. What Hitchens is doing to you all (has been doing), is solely for the purpose of selling his books. Hitchens is a conman with a rich vocabulary that can manipulate the minds of people like you (the uneducated and the misinformed). I believe too, Christianity is a fake religion but is the easiest to debunk and that's why Hitchens attacks Christianity all the time, it makes him look good! But trust me when I tell you this, there's hardly any difference between the du mb christians who give money to the Church, and you bu ms who give money to Hitchens (or show support for him) .. this is what I meant when I said _"S T F U,"_ I just wanted to save space & time and being that you all Hitchens fan[atic]s are so _”smart”_ (LOL), I was expecting you gonna understand.
I disagree with Hitchens here, reparations for slavery is taking money from people who didn't own slaves and then giving that money to people who werent slaves.
There is a likely chance that the people sacrificing the money had ancestors who wore blue during the Civil War.
Slavery and its effects are far-reaching and still visible today... And the country still benefits from it.
Rachel C Please elaborate. How exactly do I benefit from black slavery?
David Wright
Ordinary white folk do not benefit at all from the past effects of slavery dear. Quite the opposite actually.
mbbroker79 Haha you've got to be joking right? You want to hold out your hand now and demand reparations from the American people who are of different backgrounds and had Nothing to do with slavery 100 years ago?
What this man would say about the world now
He’d still be saying that the Iraq war was a great idea.
Arthur Rimbaud 😭
Probably that we should invade Iraq again and kill a few more hundreds of thousands of innocent people...
@@smokingcrab2290
Always one delusional theist troll, lol.
@@arthurrimbaud7287 pay attention dummy, he changed his mind on that. Quite a few clips of him saying so.
"... to the principles of free inquiry and open debate, that goes up to make a great university..."
For his sake I am glad he is not still around to witness the disaster that we are experiencing now.
I would love to see him eviscerate the people in power today. None could withstand his sharp wit and scathing remarks regarding their corruption.
Not do sure about that. He absolutely hated the Clintons.
@@jehjeh37111 Which is precisely why he'd be so effective today. As odious as Trump clearly is, the bigger problem is in the Liberal establishment, over which the Clintons wield so much power. They're the ones directing the identity politics community towards utterly destroying discourse in the Left.
He himself was a political agitator in his years at Oxford. A Marxist no less. I suspect, though we will never know, and I humbly admit my conclusion is speculative (something I note incidentally that you haven’t done), you might have been disappointed with his views on the current campus activism. What irks me most about internet commentators is how righteously they claim to know the thoughts of the dead. We see this everywhere: F1 fans claim to know what Senna would have thought of the current grid, film fans claim to know what Walt Disney would have thought of his company’s current output, and here we see Hitchens fans simply assuming he would have agreed with them no matter what. It’s wrong-headed, and demonstrates the same unthinking fatuousness he is on record as having opposed through his life.
@@hughtubecube You appear very much to assume most Hitchens fans are from the right - attacking so called 'Marxist' agitators on the left. For all Hitchens' contradictions over Iraq and The War Against Terror, he did so from the Trotskyist tradition of opposing the Stalinism of Saddam and a Marxist rejection of Theocratic Islamism. That this lead him into the cul-de-sac of supporting US imperialism is the great shame that he could never admit to.
His Neocon admirers tried to own him but he stated many times he'd never been any kind of Conservative, he supported the US as the only successful revolution still standing.
It's not enough to simply say Hitchens would have opposed identity politics activism due to his disgust at the Clintons or anything so fatuous. I strongly suspect he would have recognised the religious fervour in SJW puritanism leading to public denunciations without evidence and so on. The fetishization of identity is something Marx would have said allows the bourgeoise to divide and rule. It's built purely upon a perceived level of oppression in contrast to level of privilege - disabled/muslim/black/lesbian vs straight/white/male.
Such a politics takes all the struggles and injustices people face, the energy that might be used to fight for a better world, and channels that all away from defeating class structures towards correcting 'privilege'.
At this point it's worth noting that your class is abstract which means it can be challenged and dismantled, whereas privilege is inherent to you if you're a straight white male - whether you like it or not.
And in this video, Hitchens identifies injustices that can be set right, especially as they continue to hold sway over the globe - while being very clear he opposed the fundamentalist mindset of repaying all debts throughout history - to empty the museums as it were.
As he would have put it - it's crucial to understand how to think, not what to think. Hitchens would most likely have eviscerated the Orwellian nightmare of SJW activism and the Kafkaesque campaigns of MeToo/TimesUp. But equally if he were still around I'm sure the lightweights such as Jordan Peterson would not have come to prominence.
Peterson wouldn't stand a chance against Hitchens, something he got a taste of while being effortlessly taken apart by Slavoj Zizek recently..
"Torrent of bad faith...lolllll "when people begin to introduce the irrelevant the non sequitur and the generalizations .. you can tell you're onto something". Lollll the Hitch
When he said that all I could think of was some of the bad rationalizations in the youtube comments. I've read a few times what about the Arabs who practiced slavery in the same time period.
@@writerconsidered Hmm. Arabs have practised slavery since Sumerian times, as have many, if not most others. Slavery of one sort or another is still widely practised today. During the times that the American slave trade was going, Arabs, Europeans and other African tribes participated.
@@SkinnySkates Frankly, I think it should be "laugh aloud."
@@writerconsidered
They aren't bad rationalizations. They are arguments intended to contextualize reparations as totally illogical and unjust.
I don't think that people who are being collectively assigned the guilt of historical events based on their race can be automatically dismissed as bad faith actors. Hitchens is basically just dismissing all arguments which attempt to contextualize the absurdity and injustice of the notion of transgenerational race-based reparations which I think is intellectually dishonest at best, and plainly malevolent at worst.
Even when I disagreed with him I couldn't help but be impressed by the strength and articulation of his arguments.
Seems like common sense what are you disagreeing with?
Corey C disagree??? How?????
Ischar Holloway-are you guilty for the sins of the father, and is anyone alive in the US today that was ever actually a slave?
James Brewer that’s not the point!!!!!!!!!! There has been WRONG done to a people of the ABSOLUTE worst kind and continues today. No there fathers aren’t alive but they’re decedents who are DIRECTLY affected by the actions of MANY countries and should be made whole. I mean this isn’t even a hard one. Did you watch the video???!!!! “Was there a rape a theft a wrong done?, can and should it be made whole?” Simple!!!!!!!!! Wtf dude
@@ischar23 Western society is built on the idea of the individual. As soon as you start punishing individuals based on what group you think they belong to every thing would collapse. Do you go to jail if your father steals a car? If you did, damn near everyone would be in prison. The whole innocent until proven guilty idea is out the window also. Plus, in this scenario, it is actually impossible even if you attempted to do it. I'm second generation here, my ancestors were surfs in Europe. Most slaves from West Africa were originally captured and sold by other African's. I'm white, no slaves owned by my family. Many Black people's ancestors were slave traders. Gonna try to figure out everyone's family history to see if they were the guilty or the victims?!? Or just say they are guilty or victims based on skin tone?
My Irish ancestors came to the u s in the 1840s. If, if. They had food stamps ,subsidised housing and interest free loans i would probably be very wealthy,
Probably not. Being on welfare is not as wonderful as evil nut cases such as Ronald Reagan would like us to believe.
@Mikkel The Red. Ah, but did the Irish have to go through slavery, then share cropping, then Jim Crow, all at gun point and threat of lynching, my racist little friend? I'm just kidding, I would never be your friend. I hope no one else is either, because you're a terrible person.
No, none of those things can make you smart, they are designed to just keep you alive.
@Erik Mikkelsaar because, as white people, they would have been permitted to do so. To buy property wherever they could afford and participate in business. They were permitted to build an economic base. To be properly educated. They werent just "freed" in rags and told to pull up their bootstraps. But you already knew that. You just chose to ignore it.
seems pretty clear that alot of people down here in the comments didn't watch the video.
I watched the video. I’m still unaware of the method/system of reparations.
Such effortless panache. Also, don't know what more striking: How warm he looked or the fact that wasn't johnnie walker black label in his hand.
3:40 he was drinking that white wine 🤣😎
Damn, I miss this guy. So few real thinkers left these days, and even fewer willing to speak up the way he did.
+Sean L. oh man....it hurts....I do miss him.
Jeff Thompson I can only imagine what he'd have to say about the left in its current state at the moment. And, I agree... one of the most intelligent, articulate and outspoken defenders of TRUE liberalism. Have you heard Douglas Murray? He's not Hitchens but he's not bad, either.
+Sean L. How do you know that there are SO FEW "REAL" THINKERS left these days, there are 6.6 billion folk on this planet now!
Sean L. Hitch was one of a kind ! His fluid logic and silky presentation was priceless
Sean L. yeah. we need more people like this that aren't afraid to tell the truth to the public
It sad to have lost such a clear, sober mind and courageous spirit when we need him he most. I could listen to him talk all day.
Sober...lol
I wouldnt say sober
Definitely not sober
@@poozer1986 hitch was more sober when drunk than most right-wing religious types.
Sober? The guy was an alcoholic relapsed Marxist.
I miss this guys takes on things, and his subtle humor!
I think dismissing the generalization of his argument about the Parthenon Marbles is not as easy and as he states. Is there really that stark of a difference between classic Greek artifacts and Pharaonic Egyptian ones (or something you might imagine in between)? There are no Pharaonic Egyptians around, but neither are there Ancient Hellenic polis-dwellers, so how can modern Christian Greeks claim that piece justly as their own, but modern Islamic Egyptians respectively can't? In both cases the artifact's meaning is symbolical, not religious anymore, their meaning far from their original context, and there is a difficult case for historic civilizational continuation and claims to heritage. Sure, details can make a crucial difference, but with regards to his argument in general terms they may not at all.
If someone stole your great grandfather's property which had been passed down the generations to more immediate family, you would have a just claim to demand it to be restituted. However if your great grandfather robbed someone else and seized their property and in return that property got taken away by a third party, then that claim becomes a bit weaker, although you are still allowed to make it. While modern day Greeks aren't Hellenistic Greeks, they are still largely their descendants due to the continuous process of shaping Greek society as we know it today. Historical evidence suggests the process was a lot less smooth in Egypt as Arabs were not just conquerors, but also forced the local population to assimilate into their society, through enforced Islamisation, rape, murder, etc. Admittedly, both modern day countries would still like their artifacts returned due to the economic benefits of increased tourism, but ultimately only the Greeks can play the culture card.
In some sense I do understand, but you're dealing with a Ship of Theseus problem here, and everyone's answer varies bases in what they think constitutes a continual identity.
In my case, I think both the Greeks and Egyptians should be returned their artifacts-
not necessarily because they were taken from the exact same people as those who sculpted the original artworks, but because they were taken from Greeks and Egyptians (1800s) who are arguably the same today.
Whether or not they can claim heritage, they can certainly claim lost revenue from tourism and sovereignty over whatever is dug up on their territory.
@@LancesArmorStriking & @Nikola Langov Mhmh, both valid points. Thanks. I wonder how this relates to the question of seized land, and "formal" reasons why and how people in general were dispossessed of somthing, e.g. during a war. I guess, giving some symbolical items back is easier and the sentimental value of having had them lying around in a museum for a few generations weighs much less than settlers' claims to land, which was conquered in an "unjustified" war (obviously a never-ending question in itself), and then been occupied for a similar time. Psychologically, people are loss averse, and in this case having lived on and "owned" land passed down from your grandparents is practically something else, and involves living individuals much more immediately than ownership of some items by a trust or a state or a museum (simply in psychological terms), but I think there is still a problem of distinguishing these things categorically, if we regard lost ownership, potential, revenue etc. in that way. Seems to be a slippery slope.
I think the analogy is rather devoid of logic in its entirety. Some artifact that some state (or state's agent) seized from another culture centuries ago could be returned as restitution. In this case, there would not be collectivized guilt. It would be understood that the entire English ethnic group, for example, was not collectively guilty of stealing the Parthenon Marbles and bringing them to London. They were taken by the English monarchy and brought there. The English may have benefited from it being there, but it was by no inherent collectivized fault of their own that it was there.
Taking this example and comparing it to the enslavement of Black Africans by Europeans is filled with a multitude of logical inconsistencies. First, it was not the entire "white society", as Hitchens argued, that is responsible for the slave trade, slavery, racist laws, etc. 98% of European American families did not own slaves, and many among them were not supporters of slavery as an institution. It benefited the wealthy aristocracy almost exclusively. As an institution, it actually hurt poor European immigrants because there was less need for cheap labor as a result of it. Moreover, many European Americans are the descendants of immigrants who came to the U.S. after emancipation. Some came from countries that didn't even partake in colonization or the slave trade, such as Poland. Add on top of this that not all African Americans are descended from freed slaves. Some of their descendants even partook in slavery themselves against their own people in the New World.
So at the end of the day, what reparations represents is the notion that ALL European Americans, regardless of their ancestry, are guilty. It is not just "sins of our father," it is sins of our neighbor, our kings, our Congress, of ANYONE who belonged to our racial group who partook in these historical actions. It is a form of transgenerational racialized guilt against those of European descent and transgenerational racialized victimization of those of African descent.
That said, how could reparations ever be justly implemented? Just think of the logistics of such an endeavor and how fraught with incompetence and injustice it would be. If using tax dollars, then the African Americans would essentially just be paying themselves reparations. If a racial tax was assessed, it would be a gross and obvious violation of the equal protection clause of the 14th amendment, which, ironically, is the amendment which also naturalized freed slaves as American citizens.
That is why reparations for slavery can never be just...or legal...in the United States. Hitchens would minimalize and mock my argument as "white whining," but really, there is just simply no logical or justifiable way to implement reparations based on race, even if the idea seems virtuous at face value.
@@googleisskynet7312 Hey, this wasn't really what I was discussing, but I'll just accept your point here. However I have to say, I think you make a bit a categorical error. Reparations in the case of US-American slave descendant or in many other cases, are not intended (by any sane person) as a punishment because of some alleged inherited collective guilt. If this were so your point would be correct, but without rewatching this video, I would say generally such propositions including that of Hitchens' would frame them as a form of affirmative action, to make up for past discrimination, which has implications to this day. I don't want to discuss the intricacies of such policies at all, but I think at least in that regard your point is correct: Ethnic boundaries are blurry and the burden of past wrongs is difficult to quantify and account for not only on an individual level, but on a level of group or "racial identity". Should one attempt it nonetheless, and how? Different questions.
I'm overwhelmed with admiration for this man. His tact, his poise, his candor and honesty. His incredible eloquence, and here his piercing cognizance of an important issue that is often mistreated by the ignorant and biased. I would commend his consistency, but I've less respect for consistency after reading Emmerson's Self Reliance. I've never before felt in my life that person was gone too soon. My eternal admiration and respect to you Hitch!
@ what???
@Miki sadly hitch just got awakened to the fact that life was eternal, that he was wrong about God and misled many, all is not over for him as he will know no rest that’s very sad 😔. Should one respect and admire a lost sinner who confused many and stood on the throne of life denying his creator, well no, one should empathise for one that is so lost and deceived and who sadly apart from a deathbed conversion perished in his sins and trespasses, hardly something to celebrate.
@ Ah! Now I see. Well then, much good may all of that do you sir. Good day.
robert marshall nah hitchens was right. Because of him I regained my senses regarding superstition and the harm that a bad metaphysic (such as a belief in the eternal under the guise of a mind) can do.
Youre incontrovertibly incorrect about Hitchens and its a damn shame you dont have the senses to see otherwise. This is just backhanded nonsense. Keep your religion to yourself. It’s foolish as was as pretentious and senseless.
@ oh
I wish he was still with us.
He would be horrified at how far we've fallen.
Luther Blissett but not surprised
@@lutherblissett8780 I'm not sure, Dawkins and DeGrasse totally disappointed, they're completely synchronized with mainstream propaganda.
Regardless of what you think of him, he's got a first rate mind and he's one of the great speakers & teachers...
America needs this man so much right now. RIP Christopher.
And the planet....
"Be assured I am resting as I AM AN ATHEIST!" (Message from the crematorium.)
@@Longtack55 interesting quote....?..
@@captur69 I was presumptuously projecting through the medium of Imagination. I've seen so many admirers of Hitchens wishing him "RIP" and I'm momentarily apoplectic at the meaninglessness to an Atheist. He's not "resting" - owing to a sudden attack of death.
Hitchens' wisdom was imparted universally and The Planet was better for him.
@@Longtack55 definitely.....death is final.. I never really get the "rip" brigade....
R.I.P. Christopher.
You, sir, are sorely missed.
@@advancedchiropractic667 Isn't there some irony here (if you think he belongs in hell)? An atheist is proposing a very Christian act. It may be as simple as acknowledging the accurate history.
@@advancedchiropractic667 a stupid argument and non sequitur
and yet another fuktard religious idiot trying topush their shit on others.. even after they are dead... you should be ashamed of yourself but with your delusions youll never grap that fact..@@advancedchiropractic667
@@advancedchiropractic667 the lowest pit of hell is reserved for people who lead astray the Lord's children... He's certainly getting bent over by Satan right now
@@dougwright209Christian act? Paying for something u didn't take part in is a Christian act now? Peculiar...
I put it to you, ghost of Hitchens, that whosoever has owned a slave owes both reparations and liberty to that slave.
"white whine" just made my day
Yeah how dare white people "whine" when somebody wants to confiscate parts of their wealth solely for being white? Truly shocking display of immature "whiners".
Racist
and white rage
@@anarcho-boulangistllamaent2023 nothing would be confiscated the US government would pay reparations.
@@anarcho-boulangistllamaent2023 Their wealth?
Christopher you were born in the wrong year. You belong to our present and future. You are just amazing. 💖
I don’t know if the present and future would be the same if he hadn’t already been here. A truly brilliant mind, and I agree with the heart of your statement, we need him now more than ever
Why thank you, comrade
can we get the entire debate please?
www.c-span.org/video/?167191-1/reparations-slavery
@@BradSamuelsPro thanks
Brilliant brilliant man. And courageous in his assertions. So badly missed.
This is quite a stupid argument from analogy.
*REPARATIONS: “BACK-PAY. OWED. AND IT’S OVERDUE.”*
I agree but the question is to whom. Every person of that era is dead. Do we give reparations to every person of color????
@@robertopistone1179 Yes, to every person of color. That era is only half-dead.
Go see the AFRICANS, who committed the original sin of enslaving them . Easy ...
An amazing man, with a an astute vision.
The Elgin marbles is a big red herring. The Greeks at the time had no interest in or respect for their history, and had destroyed countless artifacts to make lime, costing the world inestimably dearly in lost knowledge. The Elgin marbles were about to suffer the same fate. They weren't stolen, they were rescued, for all of us.
Reparations for slavery is a difficult one for me. The suffering was terrible, but those who experienced it are long dead, as are those who perpetrated it, and the many Africans who enabled it because it wasn't just a white on black thing.
And in fact black on white slavery continued until the turn of the 20th century when the barbary pirates were wiped out, so white families from the Mediterranean all the way up to the coast of Britain have slavery in their families right up to the edge of living memory and as such have perhaps an even more legitimate claim.
However, I believe that nobody is responsible or should be held accountable for the crimes of their ancestors (even when an individuals ancestors can be proved to have been involved). Nor should a nation be held responsible for events where no participant or victim still lives.
If we are to hold people responsible for historic events, how many generations must pass before it becomes silly? I live in the north of England - does that mean, therefore, that I can claim reparations from Denmark for the actions of the Vikings? Or Rome for the invasion of 43ad? We're not even meant to hold Germany responsible for the blitz, a mere 7 decades ago.
They were rescued but they ought to go back. They belong in Athens, somewhere near the Acropolis and the Parthenon, not in a British museum. It is as simple as taking ancient heritage back where it came from and where it belongs The Parthenon is still there, at least partly, and there is a thread of continuity between the ancient and modern world in this case. It is not like ancient Hellas simply disappeared altogether and was miraculously recovered. Reparations for slavery is a far more controversial and impractical concept, obviously.
+Ishmael Forester Yeah I've no argument there, and it would be a nice gesture for archaeologists and historians in both nations to come together with a mutually beneficial compromise, as I think you hinted at in another post. I just felt that the often-implied idea that our ancestors went around essentially raping antiquity is at best misleading and at worst an outright libel that needs challenging.
Evil Twin I don't think they raped antiquity but they certainly raped the present in their day. I don't think anybody intelligent has any illusions about imperialism generally, not just the British, anymore.
No interest in their history? Well, during the battles to take Athens, the Turks were melting down the lead rods holding up the pillars of the Parthenon for bullets. The Greeks were so worried about this they offered the Turks bullets if they would only stop melting down the material. Were there a lot of Greeks who weren't aware of their history? Or perhaps weren't even really Greeks? Sure. However, there were quite a few who did.
No right thinking person believes in or endorses imperialism now, but nobody is responsible for the actions of their ancestors, and anyway you are conflating two seperate and unconnected issues here.
Look, the fact is that there isn't a single museum in the world that does not contain items stolen from another culture. If you endorse giving the Elgin Marbles back, then the Met, for example, should give Britain back all the medieval armour that the people did not give them permission to take, or pretty much every museum should return their mummies to Egypt, a country that doesn't have the space or resources to look after them properly (artefacts in Cairo museum are shockingly badly restored and conserved).
Or maybe middle eastern artefacts should be returned to Isis, the Taliban and Al Qaeda. We've all seen the respect they have for antiquities.
Today's word boys and girls is. . . Mendicant
Dark
Begged!
For me to be for reparations for slavery, someone needs to answer the following questions.
Why should I pay for the sins of my ancestors?
If I should pay for the sins of my ancestors who were slave owners, why should I not receive credit for my ancestors who fought against slavery?
Why should I pay for reparations to those black people who are better off than I am?
What about people who are half white and half black such a Barack Obama and Mariah Carey? Should they pay reparations to themselves?
@Omar Savory There are many factors to consider (petersonscottb brought up some of them), however, to consider the Civil Liberties Act of 1888 as a precedent is not correct. This Act gave reparations to SURVIVING Japanese individuals affected, not their descendants.
@Omar Savory Nowhere did I mention statute of limitations. Also, to equate inheritance with reparations shows ignorance on your part. Due to the logistics involved with distributing wealth to those affected by slavery, it will never happen. The best thing would be to do something similar to what you mentioned, Georgetown. Handing out money to the affected masses will only serve to lower their socioeconomic status even further. Thus, the best action would be to provide financial support to higher education, or perhaps even a lower interest rate on business loans. Increasing the education level of the masses affected, will have the result of increasing their socioeconomic level in the long run. It's not that I disagree with helping those affected, but just handing out lump sums of money is illogical. But, and this is a very big "but", how do you propose determining who can receive the financial support?
@Omar Savory Okay, but how would you suggest going about determining who gets what? If you decide to use DNA to exclude those that don't meet a "minimum threshold", you are going to open up Pandora's box, regarding unsolved crimes. So, again, what would you use to determine eligibility?
@Omar Savory I'd prefer that we work towards a nation that doesn't need reparations because there is no longer such a great inequality that they are needed.
@Omar Savory You have data that proves we shouldn't work towards a more equal society? I'll take a look at that, because if you think just giving some people some money is going to fix anything then you're nuts.
I think reparations should take the reverse form of Lee Atwater's southern strategy. If we propose to help everyone who suffers from a legacy of poverty, if that helps minorities such as blacks more, then so be it. There is so much injustice in US history, and I think the proof is in the soaring poverty rates of minorities. We need to provide them with opportunities to advance their social class, and do it under the rubric of lifting everyone out of poverty.
reparations make no sense for these reasons:
1. no one who was subjected to slavery is alive
2. not all black people descended from slaves
3. not all white people descended from slave owners
4. there were black slave owners (though very few)
you can't lift anyone out of poverty by giving them handouts.
there are more poor white people than black people in America, so why should the black people get help and not the white people? if you want to help, just help those who need help, don't pick and choose based on race, that's racism.
@@MrWhodatsay Don't get me started about colonialism in Africa. That is NOT an argument you are going to win.
@@JohnWilliams-channel Lol, I hear this every time I'm about to spank some idiot over colonialism. Give it your best shot.
@@Atamanxxxvii Are you going to deny colonialism from the major western powers, England, France, Spain, Portugal, and others? Because that's where you get spanked, Skippy.
@@JohnWilliams-channel well do it then, come on I'm waiting
It's weird I always hear so much about how great this guy was but I don't think I've fully agreed with a single argument he's ever made. Yet I enjoy watching him make them.
It's okay, because if you live in America it is to live in constant disagreement 🤷♂️
@@Mr._Moderate I disagree.
@@sophomoremd Ha!
One thing you must take away from this if nothing else is the difference in the college/university students who are listening quietly and possibly respectfully while Christopher speaks. What a difference in the habits of the students now. 14-15 years later and they now chant and protest and hurl abuse and disrupt speakers they don't want to listen to. All this in less than 15 years!
I don't know what students you're talking about; the ones I know are good listeners and careful thinkers.
@@lawsonj39 You should watch more videos and Ben Shapiro, Milo, Charlie Kirk, Candace Owens, Dinesh D'Souza, etc. etc., always seem to have hecklers/protesters in their speaking engagements. Except for one which was done just recently by Ben where I didn't hear a single shout which was really a surprise.
@@hughtorrance8819 i think this is largely because he is taking a far left position right now. If he were taking a far right position there would be more resistance.
@@hannibalthe1st565 You could be right, I just think it's because the college/universities haven't started the far left sh*t they're doing now. A wonderful and horrifying example of this is a college professor who said the Steven Crowder was abusing him and this professor went off the deep end threatened Crowder via tweets and Crowder confronted him in the classroom where the professor got mightily embarrassed and ran away to the Dean's office for protection. The Dean of course, supported the professor despite all the evidence against him and in a follow up program Crowder was showing the tweets that the nut bag professor was sending to the college - very strange. This is what I mean about the time difference. Look what's happened at Berkeley in 2017 with the Antifa/student riot about Milo speaking - they went nuts and I just can't imagine the students in this video doing that.
They probably didn't disturb Hitchens because they were on his side, I would like to see the other fellow's reception.
Fortunate to have learned English to the point of understanding Hitchens. So miss you Professor Hitchens. Simply Succulent. I pay attention When he speaks.
My earliest Ancestors in My home country of Australia were sent here against their will as Irish Convict slaves.
Do I deserve Reparations or does the colour of my skin make me not eligible?
liar.
@AridMy oldest ancestor was sent here for the charge of " uttering unholy oaths" meaning he was suspected of belonging to an organisation sworn to resist and oppose British rule in Ireland. (eg like the ribbon men)
If membership could be proven death was the sentence.
For Suspected resistors confiscation of property, Transportation, whipping and slavery was dished out by the English.
He would have hated the British Empire as much as any Indigenous Australian ever has.
Arid Ned Kelly's father was sent half way round the world to break rocks in the scorching sun because he stole pigs to feed his family, so you think he deserved it because he was a criminal or is it because he was white?(hint: it's the latter)
Arid had nothing to do with race but vulnerability instead.
The Irish actually do deserve restitution from the British dude, because they KILLED a bunch of them
The Devil is in the details.
How do you calculate how much each victim class member was harmed in terms of dollars and how much each individual oppressor class member is culpable and how much he must pay.
Moreover, which members are actually within the oppressor class and which were the victims. West Africans captured and sold the majority of the slaves that ended up in America. Gonna do Ancestry DNA to try and figure out if you came from one of the people that got captured or one of them that did the capturing? Or what if your mother's side was black slave trader, but your Dads side was a slave? what the hell you gonna do them? Or are we just going by how much melanin you've got and whites with ancestors who were surfs or another oppressed people that came to North America have gotta pay also? And on and on it goes.
@Dra O 2 weeks
Duke Economics Professor William A Darity has some good starting points.
Did Hitch say the reparations have to actually be monetary? He does talk about the Federal Reserve and America's wealth but I don't believe he ever actually mentioned actual money. I think he is making a far more important point. One that still needs to be made and we need to be reminded of every time a Black person is killed unjustly by cops, every time a Black person is profiled by White civilians, every time a Black person is given a harsh punishment disproportionate to the crime they committed. Yes perhaps some money is in order but the question goes far deeper than mere money.
DNA analysis.
Finally, Hitchens said something with which I disagree. Reparations is just about the worst idea I've ever heard.
+nthnpark0 I was going disagree til your second comment. Why cant we give reperations in form of college education for blac americans??
Not agreeing or disagreeing. Just curious for your reasoning.
GodlessComedy What happened in the slave trade can never be repaid.
"black criminals" well you do have to realize that some grow up in crime. Police would´t dare to cross their territories, school useless, parents useless. You have to give them a perspective or nothing will ever change. Can throw them in prison and pay for the rest of their lives in there.
That´s simply less effective than making sure that they get a perspective. The war on drugs ruined a lot of lives. Some black people got into prison for very minor things. And once you are in there...
War on drugs created a lot of misery. It also fucked up south america. USA basically did the best thing a criminal could ask for. Making drugs illegal and punished hard makes sure that drug cartels profit the most. And the US citizens paid for it.
Did you know the CIA financed, armed and sold information to drug cartels? It´s not a tin hat foil story you can look it up for yourself.
War on drugs is as effective as the war on alcohol was. Please read up on it, every interesting. Racism is what hurts your country the most without understanding the circumstances.
GodlessComedy Also what about "white crime" the billions in financial fraud? And political corruption, legal tax evasion tactics created by white politicians?
If it can't be repaid. Then conversation over. Now go tell the BLM movement that!
Here because of the most recent “Making Sense” Podcast. Anyone else with me?
Dude, reparations do not make sense. Hitchens is a moron in this area. I would debate and destroy him any day of the week and have gone to toe with him in the past. He thanked me even, and said he learned something! Reparations for any group is divisive and pushed by the world wide Marxist communist effort to divide the US and destroy it.
@@rickybosephus2036 I agree with you. Reparations make no sense.
Yep, here for the same reason, Hitch was so salient and informed about everything I've seen him in I really thought I might come here to find an intelligent argument for reparations... I was very disappointed.
Ricky Bosephus And who are you again? Can I find your content anywhere? You must be pretty damn amazing if you’d «destroy» Hitchens.
@@epicmatt12 What part of hitchens argument do you disagree with?
In order for a fight to stop and peace to ensue, one has to be okay with being hit last, and the other live with being the one who hit last, or the fight will simply never cease.
Yes, and when victory is won, it is crucial that the victor declares victory and ends the war. If you win, but continue waging war, you will either begin the process of genocide, or provoke the other side to return to the war. Neither is good. It shows that peace and equality are not the prize, but domination, and utter destruction.
Terrible morality here
@@Slimbones125 It's an objective statement, not a morally virtuous position.
Oh, how I wish we were here now.
My ancestors came from Norway, and some joined the Union Army straight away. So, what of that? I have one that died while serving. So, who owes here?
How do people who have no ancestors that were slaves deserve reparations?
Typical european thinking,...so called.
robert vernon
what, not wanting to pay for something to some one else for no good reason? How about reparations for my ancestors dying..?
If your ancestors werent slaves? No reps. That would take care of a good majority of it.
I am european just like you, you idiot
well wth was i supposed to think?
I don't owe anyone anything
Wouldn't a fundamental principle of law be broken by paying compensation to someone for just being a relative of a person who suffered injury ?
Rufus Chucklebutty it’s more about the wave of economic and social damage that had been done by Jim Crow, slavery, ect.. All people of color have been affected by these things. Couldn’t get jobs, buy homes ect..
when people die, do their homes and cars go with them into the grave?
Your question implies that the only blacks who have suffered in america did so as slaves, when I'd argue that slavery was just the initial injury (Jim Crow, etc.) and more importantly that damage is still being done to this day (the ridiculously high numbers of African Americans incarcerated in this country, etc.) and thus the reasonableness of reparations to that race of humans.
@@chadmueller1784 then perhaps the democratic party as an entity should pay reparations.
@@kingirisnetwork9847 , but how is throwing money at the problem going to solve it. Wouldn't a better solution be for the black community to first gain self responsibility for the crime that exists in their neighborhood?
I now know what the Romans meant when they spoke of the beauty and eloquence, of speakers such as Cicero.
Well said old fellow.
I admit he does speak very well.
Saudi Arabia should start paying reparations for the far more extensive Arab slave trading.
You're still feeling spineless Christian guilt. Empires aren't built with white gloves mate.
To who exactly? The reason there isn't a huge underclass of descendants of the arab slave trade is because they castrated the males and took the women as concubines.
@@hogwashsentinel And the female slaves?
@@aelwyn1 took them as concubines as I said. Bred them out if you want to get technical.
@@hogwashsentinel You're wrong about all male slaves being castrated. Some weren't because those who were sometimes died. In 2010, about 100 baby boys died in the USA from a botched circumcision, a much less invasive procedure than a castration. An early sex change operation was done because of a botched circumcision.
how is this poppin in recommended right now :D
Because the subject of reparations has come up again.
Elgin's Marbles are a non sequitur - and he complains about his opinion on them being subjected to non sequiturs. He also says when people stoop to such tactics, then you're on to something.
His entire argument is emotional - and he comments about those who satisfy themselves with emotion.
He is using it as an example to juxtapose wrongs that can easily and entirely be made right, and those wrongs that cannot be made right, at least not completely.
does cspan still air stuff like this?
Sadly, aside from rebroadcasts (which I haven't seen) there's no stuff quite like Hitchens to air. He was one of a kind.
Hitchens here speaks eloquently and at length about the issue without explicitly declaring his position.
There is one thing ,I observe, which is the statement that these ' so' unfortunate soles were wrenched from some sort of Utopian freedom to an indeterminate slavery... Stop.! These peoples were no more free than were captives taken in their incessant wars working in their own domain. It is a proven state that the captives taken in dispute were no less captive than those non captives living in their own home environment's ,that is to say subjects of the KIng?Queen Whichever. The middle passage is the nightmare to which all succumbed and there should be recompense, but to whom?
Did we watch a different videos? He couldn't have been clearer- pay reparations.
@@metromoppet Not just the soles but the toes, the ankles, the arms and legs. And the torsos. And let us not forget the heads!
@scott_ I'm not paying; my family owned zero slaves, and didn't arrive in the US until the 1920s. So stick your "pay reparations." Making an entire generation who've committed no crimes pay an entire generation who've never been enslaved is ridiculous. Should we blame today's German's for the Holocaust? No.
@@v-town1980
Today's Germans have very much recocsiled with their past. Personal responsibility is not the same as cultural responsibility. I don't personally use the things that a portion of my taxes go to but I pay them because it's not an elacart system. That said, I don't believe that we should pay reparations but for different reasons than you stated.
Hitch begins by saying he is going to make an argument by analogy and proceeds to relate some arguments for and against returning the Elgin Marbles. But he then goes on to repeatedly dismisses his opponents’ analogies with respect to the Marbles and reparations as efforts at distraction that reveal their bad faith. I always enjoy listening to him but this is just sophistry.
I accept neither collective guilt nor hereditary guilt. No American living today has owned or been a slave. There is no victim and no guilt. No debt exists. Force a redistribution of wealth based on ethnicity will doom ethnic reconciliation.
If the English Navy protected the Atlantic Slave Trade shouldn't they also be liable to pay Reparations? Tell me instead about the great slave revolt and how they earned their freedom, OH wait that never happened. Instead, 350,000 whites gave their lives to win their freedom. That sounds like reparation enough.
You mean the constant slave revolts? They never happened?! Ever heard of Haiti?
You can't say that, it goes against the liberal dogma and you will be hunted down and silenced for having an opposing opinion and thinking for yourself.
@@wilgarris Lol, it's funny that factually incorrect statements are "opposing opinions" fiercely rejected by some liberal boogie man.
Those lives given were not to free the slaves, but to keep the Union intact. And I’m guessing you also don’t know or care to know, about all of the other injustices blacks were subjugated to after those lives were “given” and well up to today as well. Pick up a book and learn history before you shoot off at the mouth.
I'm sure that you care little about the lives given to free slaves and would rather dwell on the evils of the whites but the fact remains that the freedom of the slaves was a direct result of the civil war and the men and women (mostly white) who died. I've studied my history perhaps you should as well before you shoot off your mouth.
First we must all repay the reparations that we owe to ourselves,
based on our recent and ancient mixed ancestries.
@Big Bill O'Reilly lmao
"In other words: beware when someone tries to make 'the Best' the enemy of 'the Good'"...
yeah especially when the president implies that there are fine people in the neo Nazi group
@@jmisc watching this entire video, and the points made, and yet you still misrepresent the real quote and context, for shame sir
Fine I edited that, are you happy now Trump supporter who are freaking hypocrites, criticizing Obama and Hillary and now pretty much quiet when confronted with Trump’s lies. Why not ask Trump the same thing. Why lie? You are either lying or ignorant. Which is it?
@@jmisc you could still improve on your edit by just deleting it, you either know you're wrong but still intent on the lie, or just dumb
Niall Colbeck get a life you embarrassing piece of shit. I did the edit to make you all happy, and you still sound like a sore loser afraid of facing the truth that the president is a fucking racist and whiny loser. What else do you want to be quoted properly “I don’t take any responsibilities?”
This is the first time I've heard Hitch make absolutely no sense whatsoever. He's not even addressing the two basic questions: who pays and who gets paid?
Way to broadcast to the world that you missed the point
I wonder why this is the first time u disagree with him lol
@@Russyda1 I don't understand what you are trying to imply. And I definitely don't understand the "lol."
Why don't the people who feel reparations are in order, set up a fund, let all those with guilt donate, and then mete-out the proceeds to those who feel they deserve it? This would leave-out those of us who had not a thing to do with slavery alone, and maybe we could finally shut-up the element that has haunted us.
No, those who have unwarranted "Guilt" donate. NO-ONE alive today had anything to do with North American Slavery.
In the words of the wise man: " Only a fool makes derision of guilt."
None of us had anything to do with the slavery of centuries past. But many of us have benefited from it nonetheless.
And as the speaker points out at 8:25, some of the profits of slavery are now held by public institutions.
only 1 in 10 in south owned slaves. Most of them owned only one. Thats 5% in all of the US then. Of the people alive today only 5% can trace themselves back to pre 1860s America, most have come from immigrants that came after that. so 5% of 5% which means there is almost nobody here who owes anybody anything.
I've been paying reparations since LBJ's "Great Society" in 1965.
White people was collecting that LBJ check dumbass
@@baddog6003 are you native American? Just curious
@@baddog6003 >not realizing islam at one point conquered half of europe and all of northern and eastern africa.
>not surprised at all
basically what I'm saying is, if we had left them alone they'd probably be equal in terms of societal and economic development. Oh and they would all be arab more than likely. perhaps spreading so far that we were too
Hitch rarely lets me down. So happy to hear his thoughts on this. A (mostly) morally consistent man he was.
A pretty big exception being advocating that other people go to war.
@@suarezguy huge, yeah.
@@matthewlane9071 - STFU Dumbass!
@@Davieboy-dovbear thanks for weighing in with your envious skill for debate, Davie.
@@matthewlane9071 Matthew Allen Lane - all the pro-Hitchens arguments (and Hitchen's himself), *not that you have made any!* .. are subjective and lack essence. What Hitchens is doing to you all (has been doing), is solely for the purpose of selling his books. Hitchens is a conman with a rich vocabulary that can manipulate the minds of people like you (the uneducated and the misinformed). I believe too, Christianity is a fake religion but is the easiest to debunk and that's why Hitchens attacks Christianity all the time, it makes him look good! But trust me when I tell you this, there's hardly any difference between the du mb christians who give money to the Church, and you bu ms who give money to Hitchens (or show support for him) .. this is what I meant when I said _"S T F U,"_ I just wanted to save space & time and being that you all Hitchens fan[atic]s are so _”smart”_ (LOL), I was expecting you gonna understand.
What does Mr Hitchens actually believe should be done? I saw not a conclusion nor a resolution...
haha I know sometimes he thinks on so many levels at once u walk away with no idea what he's talking about
having said that I'd argue he was suggesting was taking a chunk of money from the treasury and distributing it (to African American people who were descendants of slaves)
@@georgebyrne3825 Exactly that. It's a logical acknowledgement of the role slavery paid in paving the US.
@@georgebyrne3825 i get that argument, but what about the 99% who never owned a slave? is taking their money away a righteous act? In my mind, compensation to long lost ancestors is too far, welcoming them fully into society allowing them to play by the same rules is justification enough... Allowing them to buy cheap government land might be a good step however...
@@Savantjazzcollective yea super complicated thing to roll out. I think it'd have to be hashed out within the back community.
I miss HITCH! I never knew I was a CONTRARIAN until I started "observing" him!
Yes, he sure does believe in ORIGINAL SIN of what our forefather's did.....for someone who doesn't believe in the ORIGINAL SIN concept of Catholicism. I would imagine he justifies this by saying original sin in Catholicism is the original sin of a fictional character whereas the original sin of reparations is a real person from over a hundred of years ago in most places.
He was one confused individual. I would have loved to have a one on one chat with him over a cup of coffee. His views were so backwards and easily refuted that I could have taught him a lot in a very short time.
that was the weakest argument I've ever seen from him. 95% was fluff (he just mesmerized the audience with his skills of speech and history), and his real answer came down to the US Treasury made money off of it? Really? Glossed over the answer completely.
I think you just put into words the floating mist in my mind that I've been thinking of since I've seen this video. I won't go so far as to say I'm disappointed with his answer as it was, he's human too, but rather- I feel bad for being irritated with his shenanigan.
You nailed it, and that is so un Hitchens-esque. He blew it here and was not convincing. How often can you say that about Hitch? Not often.
So, no reparations for you descendants of slaves in America? Because we can't find you? Because it's not practical? Because it's not merited? Discuss.
The man is good but certainly not flawless. He really failed here.
I think he was asked to defend the opposing argument, by the event organizers, for reparations and this was the best strategy he came up with. I think Hitchens would ultimately agree that there is no way to justly implement the idea and further policy, of reparations. I think he would agree that it is completely unworkable and that any vague and etherial links to "white privilege" (really in-group preference which all human beings can be subject to) are unworkable.
Hitchens, as always, makes an eloquent case that no one with a shred of moral sensibility could argue with. Certainly I do not know anyone who would disagree, let alone be able to contradict the question of whether reparations should be paid. The difficulty lies entirely within the realm of *HOW*, and I am quite disappointed to see that was not even remotely addressed in this talk.
Is this complete video somewhere?
I disagree with Hitch's rationale in that the reference to the Elgin Marbles would only be comparable if the nations of Africa wanted the decendants of it's stolen people back. This was a very poor position to take. I can't see how he could convolute "Reparation" with "Repatriation".
@Camille Desmoulins Completely irrelevant to the issue at hand and also quite wrong. Whatever the austerity policy imposed by the European Stability Mechanism--or Germany, if you can't do without your own personal Antichrist--foreclosing on art is not how national debt is collected. Nice try at a segue though.
@Michael Gaspar I agree with the part about Hitchens' conflation of "reparation"/"repatriation", but I think his injunction to not "make the best the enemy of the good" still holds. As far as reparation is concerned, the once-promised forty acres and a mule (or their modern-day value equivalent) might be a good start, since this would have been wealth passed down in the families of former slaves. After all, there are 640 million acres of federal land in the US.
Not his best moment, by far. Comparing the Atlantic slave trade to the acquisition of the Elgin marbles is so ridiculous as to be insulting. Also, his statement that there is scarcely stone upon stone in Washington, D.C. that was not put there by slaves shows a sad ignorance of the history of the city in which he certainly spent a fair amount of time. Maybe one can make a good argument to reparations, but Hitchens hasn't made one here.
His point with that was about shiteaters like you using such stupid comparisons to twist the issue.
You typed a lot of words, but did not make a point. What is it, or don't you know?
I have to agree, not Hitchens best moment.
@@phaedrussocrates7636 What comparison did I use in my statement, virgin?
@@phaedrussocrates7636 To paraphrase Hitchens himself @ 3:13, when people start responding to your argument by calling you a 'shiteater', you know you're on to something.
I miss this man so much
Does anyone know where the full debate is
Slave trade, well, it was a trade. This discussion about the reparation from the buyer. What about reparation from the seller?
could you elaborate?
@@zak1424 I believe that comment refers to Africans who sold or traded their own people.
simply saying "other people did bad things too, why are they not in trouble?" I think I ridiculous. It shouldn't matter! responsibility needs to be taken for your own actions, and what can be done to remedy the situation must be done.
@@zak1424 "responsibility needs to be taken for your own actions"
But it wasn't his own actions. There exists no victim nor perpetrator of the crime you speak of in the world anymore. Meanwhile the practice of slavery is nearly abolished and outlawed world-wide today, and Africa has received unimaginable sums of money in charity throughout the last century. I'd like you to explain who is responsible for both of these things, and why they would owe anyone anything.
You can argue that throwing money at Africa has not changed anything and I might even agree with you, but you must still name who handed over that money.
A good point.
Instead of paying repirations to blacks,why dont they use that money to build great schools in poor areas and educate all the poor how to help themselves
Typical white supremacist they believe that black reparations should be passed out to all poor people something they would never say to a Jewish Holocaust victims. Fool, you did not enslave poor people you enslaved black people.
@@taipan1234 oh shut up lol. You sound so fucking racist by that statement. Seriously just fucking go away with that shit you dumbass ha.
Beautifully spoken
I don't owe anyone anything.
_You owe the IRS OR are you avoiding paying taxes ?_
doubt that. we all owe someone. you have no gratitude.
The government owes...you have no say.
Dickie Bhee, I respect your opinion but you’re not going to change anyone’s mind talking about Jesus who isn’t Catholic nor Christian
Faye Flower I’m grateful to be alive so yes, I suppose
Have to disagree with Hitch here. There's a reason it was called the slave trade and not the slave theft. It's not like the slave traders were hunting down Africans and snatching them up. It would be one thing if that was the case, but the way it happened is that African warlords and chieftains rounded up their subjects and sold them to slave traders for rum. The slave traders were buying slaves, yes, but the African chieftains were selling them. So let's not act like white Americans (many of whom have zero slaveowners in their ancestry) are entirely responsible for slavery in North America.
Wade Perkins
what the fuck? so calling it "trade" makes it not a horrible thing? what the actual fuck?
No John, calling it a "trade" means somebody was doing the selling. Who do you think that was?
What a beautiful mind and voice. I may not agree with him, but I can admire his brilliance and fine delivery.
His voice. His mind. Sad loss :(
A razor sharp mind with a horrifyingly wicked wit. Good luck to who ever debates him. He will take you apart and you'll thank him for it
Meh, we'll manage. We've managed, in fact.
@@Pantano63
I think you’re confusing irreplaceable with valuable.
On a noble and lonely mission to persuade a very stupid world to evolve, was Chris
This was not at all what I was expecting. I've always heard this guy was smart.
Take it from a huge Hitchens fan, this is not representative of his brilliant mind. This is embarrassingly sad. Look him up on any other topic, you will be impressed
You got him on a bad day in a white-guilt college.
@@StephenPaulTroup This looks suspiciously like you being angry that Hitchens has put forward an argument with which you do not agree.
You genuinely listened to his view and concluded it was 'embarrassingly bad'?
My goodness, we clearly have different understandings of what constitutes embarrassment.
I've read one of his books and I do think he was intelligent, but I too was disappointed in this particular speech. I thought his 'white whine' comment childish bordering on offensive, and I didn't think the argument quite rang true... because it was devoid of detail. You can't talk about back pay being owed to the descendants of the dead... at least not in terms of nominal currency. And his argument about repaying a debt that can be repaid... well there are so many groups who in theory are owed money because of past injustice. Perhaps if he'd had more time to expound on how he wanted the repayment to work I might have bought his argument, I don't know.
@@rstevens7711 Apparently, people can't admit they disagree without putting someone else's supposed intelligence down. The insecurity.
Some people in the comment section are just ridiculous. Can you not see the clear gap between blacks and the rest of america? The living conditions and treatment of black people in america by the system obviously shows that. Stats don't lie. It was this same system that had slaves and benefited from the free labour that has created this massive gap and still continuous to widen the gap. Clearly something has to be done to fix it.
Yomamas Nekst And that "something" would be what?
socraytes Maybe investing more into these communities. Developing better systems of education? I don't know I'm no politician but something better than what the government is doing right now
Yomamas Nekst As a nation we pay more now into education now than we've ever paid in the history of the United States yet we're falling further and further down the rankings. Explain how the federal government funding education is helping? As for the communities how can communities thrive when crime is such that business don't want to go into those communities for fear of going under. You can't just dump money on the problem but again if you could who would pay and what would they pay?
socraytes Crime is an economic symptom. On a large scale you cannot distinguish between those.
In general though the west has gone so far in the wrong direction with the triumph of neo-liberalism in the last 30 years that its not just Blacks that are being stiffed, its everyone in the middle class and the working class. So the whole damned thing is going in the wrong direction so its no surprise that Blacks aren't getting miraculously saved by a system that can't even keep formerly privileged white people from suffering.
Also, spending money isn't a magic barometer. Its how that money is spent thats the issue, and the policies that go with it. All this standardized testing nonsense that keeps coming up is a lot of money spent on something that doesn't improve anything.
Yomamas Nekst I have a novel idea on how to fix it.
How about the blacks in America get an education and a job, marry and raise families, care for their young, eschew the life of crime and drugs and thuggery, and see how that works.
I refuse to be or feel guilty about an occurrence in history. If this country were really free as we are told we are, there wouldn't be an issue of it.
Did you watch the full video?
@@tomread8748 yes I did. Foreign born atheists, no matter how eloquent, don't deserve respect when they use it to guilt trip an entire country, especially without mentioning the African culpability in the issue, without mentioning the generational distance, without mentioning the current state of slavery and human trafficking. I would love to debate him or Harris about God, but God took him, denying me the opportunity. His belief system is moral when discussing politicians, but convoluted on the supernatural, because of moral subjectivity not objectivity.
@@eltonron1558 Why does where he was born devalue his comment? It's not like he had much of a choice in the matter! He wasn't able to ask his parents, as a sperm or developing foetus, whether they might consider moving to another continent just to reassure a slavery apologist on an internet site that his viewpoint is relevant because he happens to come from a random geographical location. And why can't he have a valid opinion if he's an atheist too, in a democratic discussion? Difficult for him to mention all of the things that you listed in a 10 minute time slot, and it's easy for you to do that in hindsight, but it deflects from the point he raises (which I think is mainly the reason you're posting here, isn't it?).
@@tomread8748 If he were an American, he would have privy to the American experience, and possibly the years of propagation of guilt we as Americans are supposed to submit to. Where he came from is admitted knee jerk initial reaction, however, I f I can't get reparations for my father's exposure to agent orange, if I can't get reparations for my exposure to unionized leftist fraud educators, if I can't get reparations for the horrors my grandparents suffered, at the hands of nazis, do you get where it's going? My own government is morally, and economically bankrupt, yet as a taxpayer, I'm going to be responsible for " the original sin", generations ago? Fuck no, and that is the REAL point, not that he is a foreigner, or atheist, or eloquent.
@John Rennie That's debatable.
Mexico wants an apology from Spain. Buena Suerte Amigos !
@elitist douche bag do u have any "group" data that explains that statement..?
@Steven Moreno "WE' .. that is rich you stupid ass
@Steven Moreno I'm not sure about their yummy tortilla recipes, but you're aware Spain was the 1st to colonize Haiti and territories in Africa, while enslaving them right..?
@Steven Moreno You know Spaniards practiced a caste system where pure Spaniards were on top right?
@elitist douche bag The Spaniards also lost the war for Mexico to the native born Mexicans so at least they got a swift and vicious kick to the groin as a down payment for an apology.
Still waiting for Mongolia, Northern Europe, Rome and more to pay me back for doing the same to the English.
+Daxidol I have a similar list for my country.It's a bit longer though.
Mr. Hitchens is wrong here.Let the past be in the past.Learn from it,true, but don't dwell on it.
You guys are so lost on this subject. You are obviously not listening to what he's saying.
Jolly Joel
Really?I listened carefully.What do you think he is saying?
MadBrainBox Your statement shows you're probably not from America, England, or France etc, but you have sympathy towards not paying reparations for this specifically. It also shows you weren't listening to the part where he talked about why African descent free labor removed the nations need to spend millions (which nowadays would be billions) of dollars to make a nation way more powerful and in America's case, help build the nation in general.
The nation we are benefiting from, regardless if our family immigrated to one of these countries after slavery was over, in America's case for 400 years Africans were bred, worked to death, and in that process built a nation by labor.
Once slavery was over, they weren't allow to benefit from society, nor given any equality for another 100 years and those issues still slightly carry on to this day.
If you take two pictures of history in America, one of _Slavery and it's ending_. Another one of Africans Americans disproportionately living in poverty, disproportionately sent to jail/prison, and anything they do that is different than white people, laws are made to target those differences.
It is boldly clear that society owes something to African Americans. The same is said for every nation that benefited from Slavery but mostly Americans.
America had done this to some degree for Native Americans and I don't see many people complaining about that.
Jolly Joel
I am from a country that was pillaged, occupied, had it's population repeatedly decimated and overall kept down for the past 2 millennia.We've been occupied,in turn,by the Romans,the Hungarians,the Ottomans and had a communist regime forced upon it's country that was worse than the past occupations.Not to mention the Russians treated us as the losing side in WW2 and we were forced to pay a ridiculous war debt in the for of our factories plus a massive amount of gold.After they used our soldiers as cannon fodder in the war,virtually decimating our armed forces.And communism was forced upon us with the blessing of the Western powers.And now we're treated slightly better by the EU.But only slightly.
Who should I ask reparations from?We're a poor nation because of the great powers.I know exactly who to blame and I know exactly what kind of debt it is owed to us and who owes it to us.And who owes the land that should be ours but that's another story.
That said,me asking to be compensated by people that did nothing wrong to me is not a fair thing to do.
The simple conclusion of my little ramble is this:"The strong does what he can,the weak does what he must".My ancestors were weak and did what they had to in order to survive and the strong came and took what they wanted because they could.
He would love talking to college right now...lol
I'm sure he would, what point do you think you've made?
He'd get branded as a racist and white supremacist
@@TheRiboka no, he certainly wouldn't.
Just Google Evergreen college and watch the mayhem, you'll get what I mean
@@TheRiboka ok... What is your point?
I find myself agreeing with Hitchens on every occasion except twice. 1. when he said women cant be funny and 2. now.
Reparations were paid in blood when North and South fought a disastrous war were thousands upon thousands were killed.
I am sorry but the rescue argument about the Elgin marbles holds - the marbles were not private property and when taken no one cared for them, in fact years later the Parthenon was used as a weapons arsenal and blown up. Elgin SAVED the Parthenon frieze, the single most beautiful work of art I have ever seen in my life. And the British Museum is a wonderful place where anyone can come view it.
@zan tarr I don't believe in such a thing as "national possessions". Also the Colorado River is a geographical element - no one removed the Parthenon Hill in Athens. What I am saying is with ISIS coming wouldn't you rush to protect Persian artefacts?
@farenheit041 Have you read his full case for the return of the marble? It sounds like you haven't.
I think the idea that the British took (stole) artifacts from around the world to preserve them is flawed. They were taken as artifacts of monetary value. For example the Kohinoor diamond. There are plenty of museums in India I assume that are perfectly capable to storing the prized artifact.
@farenheit041 would you extend the same argument to the slave trade? That it was a consequence of conquest and nothing should be done about it. So anything is justified as long as it was one country conquering another?
@farenheit041 so you agree with reparations for slavery ?
How can Hitchens imagine that Elgin had cut down the marbles from their original position on the Parthenon ? It would have been impossible to do this and no one would have thought of doing so anymore than someone would ask for a chunk of the Great Pyramid. The point is that it had been used for target practice and as an ammunition dump . The marbles were lying round in pieces . Elgin saved what was left.
The British would not have the slightest case for hanging on to them otherwise and they clearly think they do have a case.
Also if the Egyptians believe quite rightly that they have a connection to their forebears who built the pyramids then why is the same not true of present day Iraqis to the Babylonians ?
agreed. What a joke the world has become.
Imagine using this argument for picking up and walking off with ( "saving" ) a garden implement your neighbor left out in the rain. Clearly, they had no care for the tool and you saw its potential so, therefore, you had not only the "right" to take the tool, but to refuse to return it because you decided you have the moral upper ground. No, you say, it was just laying there in the rain, you didn't care for the tool, and I will keep it in a dry place.
Theft. You are justifying theft because you disagree with how the owner treated their own property.
@@mollywalts2776 Yes good point but I would not be overly pleased in those circumstamnces if the owner just accused me of theft.
There is rather more to it. It would also in spite of what Hitchens says unleash a never ending demand for other stuff to be returned. Also I don't think it is a bad thing that it is distributed around . Suppose all that remained of Babylon had been in the Baghdad museum before it was bombed...
Okay. You are standing on your emotional response at being accused of theft even though you did steal the tool ?
Let's take more steps. You have stolen the tool because you disagree with how it was being treated, put it safely in a dry place, THEN the neighbors property is broken into and the rest of the tools are stolen is your justification for you taking the tool you wanted BEFORE the burglary ?
Would it be sad that antiquities are destroyed ? Yes, ofcourse. Can that potential destruction justify cultural theft ? No.
What you are saying is that no culture can claim autonomy because someone NOT in that culture wants to be in control ( and for emotional reasons ).
Because they don't care about anything pre-Islam, they would prob destroy anything they got back.
Perhaps other speakers ventured into these areas but a few observations:
1. Mr. Hitchens claims the US should pay reparations for slavery but does not mention England should even though England started the practice in the US as early as 1619. The US was born into this practice and couldn't change things overnight. Yet, not a word about this aspect.
2. He frames the subject in ways that avoid important questions. For example, slavery was a legal practice. If it had been an illegal practice it would have been much smaller in scale. What precedent do you set if you punish people for doing something that was legal simply based on changing moral grounds? In addition, we have a practice in the West of not punishing the son for the sin's of the father or in this case the sins of the great grandfather being pushed on the great grandson. Except that doesn't even have it right because modern Americans have varying ancestry so only a percentage of their ancestry may have any tie to slavery if at all. This is all major departure from typical criminal and civil law so we would be creating a new precedent.
3. He ignores that genetic and/or other environmental factors are contributing to the existing divide rather than past issues with slavery.
4. Perhaps the biggest question avoided is will reparations actually heal the divide or will it widen it? Because if it becomes a practice it will create a lot of resentment and there will be repercussions that may be worse than the issue thought to be solved.
Another thing he ignores... Most slaves from West Africa were captured and sold by West African's.
Native Americans were screwed the most because the Europeans came in and took their land and their culture. So with this where does it end? Reparations is a dumb and dangerous idea.
@@charlesgradle286
*"1. Mr. Hitchens claims the US should pay reparations for slavery but does not mention England should even though England started the practice in the US as early as 1619. The US was born into this practice and couldn't change things overnight. Yet, not a word about this aspect."*
Probably because the number of slaves owned in English colonies in the US was tiny, and also because the English didn't have slavery IN ENGLAND. It was something only done in the American colonies, and mostly in the Caribbean. So, why would England today be responsible for what American colonists did, especially after they gained independence from Britain before the slave trade even became as big as it was?
Secondly, the British already paid reparations for the slave trade. It took them 200 years, but the British tax-payer paid off the cost of abolition.
I agree with everything else you wrote.
@@charlesgradle286 naTive Americans already receive reparations. So do Jewish Peoples and japaneese..this is not something that hasn't or isn't being done .it is okay for everyone else but dumb for black desendants of slavery..
Charles Gradle There were only about 10 million Natives in America when Columbus arrived. They didn't claim the whole continent as theirs so very little of their land was stolen. The reason they were put in reservations is because they savagely killed innocent men, women and children who settled on land the Natives didn't claim.
I will never think of white wine (whine) the same again!!!!
4:55 actually can repaid
5:47 better to be in USA
6:35 was there a crime and can any of it be made good
8:51 free labour
9:15 what is owed
Reparations for slavery are a good idea.
Anyone who was owned as a slave should be paid reparations from the person who owned them.
and, of course, reparations from the state that oversaw the transportation/importation of slaves, oversaw the slave markets, granted license for slave ownership, policed the slaves, hunted down those who escaped, etc.
and, of course, to the slave and their estates.
and, of course, from the state to those who suffered under the such state provisions that continued slavery via imprisonment. ... and Jim Crow laws, etc.
@@fungiblenonsense Sure... paid to any individual who was owned as a slave.
England should also pay reparations to the United States for 1776 and 1812. While were at it, I'm part Polish, so Germany should give me stuff. There was an "original, traceable offense" and while the situation can't be fully repaired, let's not make "the best the enemy of the good." Give me what you can Germany.
@@calebwochnick2147 Take another stab at reading the lines again. ;)
Agree. People read what his comment actually says.
There is a lot I like about this man. I disagree with him quite often but I still have admiration and great respect for him.
A nobody disagreeing with Christopher Hitchens. Who cares?
@@ironhazes you do apparently.
Anyone have a link to the full debate?
www.c-span.org/video/?167191-1/reparations-slavery
I would"ve loved to see him expound on the Arab slave trade in Africa.