Hi Ben I’ve dealt with that disease my self it’s called epistylis it looks like ich but kills your fish off way faster than ich ever would usually to cure it use maracyn 2 and water changes daily and lower the temp a few degrees in the tank sorry for your loss that sucks I agree pecto fish are terrible I feel bad for them
@@FishTankMonsters I dealt with the same disease a few months back. It killed a lot of my Cichlids (a convict, 3 geos, a blue ram). By the time I was able to figure out what disease was killing my fish, it was too late. My blue ram was about 3 years old and the geos and the convict were about 5 years old. It broke my heart.
Petco story; I bought 3 softball size fancy goldfish. They all started to waste away in quarantine! Faces rotting off, just horrible devastation! I tried heat, salt, meds, just the nastiest thing I've EVER dealt with in fish. I went back with the carcasses and got my money back, then proceeded to inform the fish people. The whole goldfish area was sick! Very sick! I didn't see anything the week before. I talked to the fish guy, he said they could only go natural routes, no General Cure, Ick X, etc. I made it a point to not even go back there to see the devastation. I should preface this with their behavior was 100% sulking at the bottom of the tank. I didn't get what was happening until almost a week in that something was seriously wrong.
I've been given massive discounts on imperfect fish and have been given for free a fish that had a gas from Petco and am thrilled with the results, the fish recovered beautifully and are more active here than they were at Petco, probably due to my 9-ft tank, curious why you would drop close to 150 dollars I'm fish that were imperfect or they just started to fall apart once you got home and you qualified every test whatsoever to determine that you had no issues? Sucks that happened to you and it sucks that a store continues to operate like that, I've seen very little in the way of subpar corporate pet stores in the last decade
@@GreenCanvasInteriorscape Yep, $150 because a few predacious owls found my pond, and I lost 4 fancies, probably more! Net is up now. The fish straight up were beautiful with no imperfections. If I had caught them earlier, I probably could have saved them. The store has always been good otherwise. A PetSmart refused selling me sick fish to rescue because they were sick, they were Goldfish as well. I get where you're coming from rescuing, and I'm really glad you were able to do that.
Come on people. How would a big retailer quarantine fish. I've been in the when they got a shipment. It would be physically impossible. You should find out your pet stores schedule and just don't get fish on delivery day. Big stores will never have the space no staff to quarantine hundreds of fish a week. I just talk to them and pick my days to shop
There is no reason whatsoever why PetSmart couldn’t set up quarantine tanks. Breeders who receive massive shipments, like Predatory Fins, never flip fish without some QT time. The only reason this PetSmart doesn’t quarantine is they don’t want to or don’t care or a combination of both. I’m not going to wink at or make excuses for irresponsible selling that does more harm than good for the hobby.
Did that 4 years ago, and every fish I was fishing quarantined and still died after 3 weeks. One came with a parasite that ran rampage through 3 synodontis and 12 rainbows. Never again, I look at big box pet stores as something for people who are new to the hobby or else I get better prices and selection from my LFS. I was aswell Mr nice guy with pet smart thinking they would flip but never did. Nearly 200$ thrown away. Stay happy and healthy my friend!
I dont believe PetSmart or PetCo quarantine their new arrivals. They'll tell you when their fish come in if you ask them. In my experience, all any of them do is float the bags.
Some managers will hold off for a couple of weeks before selling (see comments above). Some department managers either don't know or don't care. Regardless, I'm done with PetSmart. Not worth the risk. I'm just happy that my fish room didn't cross-contaminate.
@BenOchart That must be very rare. I have never, in any of the Box Stores (or the feed store that sells fish for that matter) seen them do a minute's worth of quarantine around me here in Illinois. They come off the truck and go immediately into the tanks. Gosh, can you imagine had you put those fish directly into your established tank? Oofta, thank God for experience and quarantine tanks!
Ben, I am so sorry for your loss my friend. From my Experience and researching fish Clown loaches are very sensitive to bacteria and ICH and stuff like that. They are usually the first to catch whatever is in the tank, They are scaleless fish and there is even some medicines you can't use with them. I have had pretty good luck with my Petco's and Petsmarts near me. They quarantine their fish in the back for at least a week before they sell them. I have talked to the managers of the aquatics and that is what they tell me. Whether it's true or not is another thing. I don't like Neons I think they are to fragile and die really fast. I had a group of them and they died pretty quick within about 6 months or so. Clown loaches are expensive and cute fish. I would never keep them though because they are so sensitive to stuff. I only dealt with Ick once and I was able to kill it. It sounds like you got Epistylis instead of ICH. I also lost a golden Severum about 5 days ago. Just out of the blue he got Sick and It looks like it may have been HITH but it came on and it looked like little white pimples on his head and face. I did a Water change of 80 percent and I thought it was going away but it wasn't getting better so I dosed the tank with poly guard and it was to late and he passed. I was so upset he was so pretty :( It's always sad when a fish dies and you raised them from a baby. He was a petsmart fish as well. I think each store is different. My petsmart locally got a snail problem and they didn't know what to do so I told them to put there clown loaches in the tanks and they will eat the snails. They said really I said yep and they asked there manager about it and when i came in a few days after they had loaches in the tanks lol. eating the snails. So sorry Ben. :(
Sounds like you have good management at your local big box store. So sorry about that severum. I imagine that sometimes the surface signs can be the last to show up. I glad to hear that your local store took your advice on the clowns. I might send the link to this video to PetSmart corporate and make some suggestions. It's my opinion that if they can't QT then they shouldn't sell fish since it just gives new fish keepers losses and they then abandon the hobby. The Big Box stores in some cases killed off the smaller Mom & Pops LFSs, so we have a very awkward situation going on.
For me, the biggest takeaway here is that there are new strains of virus' that we tend to miscalculate the odds over despite awareness of. When I have obtained fish from the two most popular big box stores, they have for the most part worked out, and honestly, between Petsmart and Petco, I have generally felt (The two Petco's in town) are more on-top when it comes to sales of healthy fish. That being said, thank you for the big heads up- we may be confident of past experiences including use of meds, but nature reminds us, it is in charge in the virus/bacteria dept! Quarentine is the word of the day to mitigate potential large scale losses. I need to remember this - Thanks for posting, Ben!😬
Big box stores may got their fish from the same place as mom & pop shops, but they’ll hire everybody and anybody to do the job even though they have no idea what they’re doing. That’s why I don’t buy from big box stores. I love going to family owned places where they’re passionate about fish and know what they’re doing
That is now my firm policy. I’ve had luck in the past with big box stores and they certainly have a place in the hobby but it’s LFSs from now on for me. Thanks for watching and commenting.
It sounds like your local petsmart is not up to par. The thumbnail was a bit click baity in my opinion and doesn’t represent PetSmart as a whole. As you said it varies store to store. The PetSmart in my area actually does a pretty darn good job.
@@BenOchart Corporate has a huge say in the daily operations of these big box stores. They lay out the foundations for daily operations.Mangers are there to help facilitate them. They get the say in the hiring. If you elect mediocre you get mediocre.
I won't buy fish from a big box store for this reason, they have no way to quarantine their new weekly shipments, and the associates usually know absolutely nothing about the aquarium/fish hobby, other than "fish go in water". If buying fish, go with a store that specialize in the aquarium hobby or find local breeders who are always willing to show you their entire stock, those guys/gals are always proud of their tanks and will not sell a fish they think is sick. Also, do not forget to quarantine the new fish you buy for at least two weeks minimum in their own tank, do not mix equipment with your other tanks, keep the tank dark and also do not feed them for the first 24 hours.
Same thing happened to me but from fish from a LFS I checked out. They had some nice 3in Blue Acaras and I could not resist not buying them for my planted 75. I didn’t have a quarantine tank at the time and added them into my main tank. A week passed and I saw white spots on all 4 blue acaras. I thought it was ich and decided to increase the temp and use ich x. Couple days passed and it kept getting worse, I ended up losing 2 blue Acaras and it spread to 2 Electric Blue Acaras and 2 Denison Barbs. I did some deep research and concluded that it wasn’t Ich but Epistylis, cause the white spots weren’t flat on the fish body, it stuck out. It’s a Protozoa that anchors itself to your fish and eats the bacteria off its skin and in the water column. I moved the acaras into a hospital tank and started treatment with salt, ich x and paracleanse. I stopped feeding the main tank for a few days with the 2 infected Denison barbs still in the tank and did a 90% water change. That definitely helped as I didn’t see white spots on the Denison barbs after a day or two. But I believe I was late to react with the Acaras as I lost 1 of the 2 EBA and am left with 2 blue Acaras and 1 EBA. The salt with ich X and para cleanse definitely helped as it removed the white spots off the body of the fish overnight. Now I’m dealing with secondary infections! Hope they make it😔
Sounds like it might be epistylis which is similar to ich. I've only come across it once in my 40+ years of keeping fish and I couldn't beat it. Got it from a Petsmart fish, go figure. Raising temp like ich makes it worse.
I think you're right. I looked into it and the description (not as granular, velvety, over the eyes, where ich will not go over the eyes ...) all point to epistylis. And yes, following ich protocol of raising the temp helped it get stronger. Sometimes the lessons one learns in this hobby are hard ones! I almost didn't bring this up in a video, but now I'm glad I did since epistylis was not on my radar. Thanks.
@@BenOchart I believe that epistylis is what my fish contracted as well. I lost 85% of 3 different batches of fish. This is why a quarantine tank is a absolute must. I took this quarantine tank (10 gallon) and used bleach to clean/soak everything that touched the water. This quarantine tank is out of service right now. I'm holding off getting any more fish until spring.
Sad story Ben , ive personally never purchased any fish from petsmart, ... FYI there's a thread on a fish form im a member of ( not sure if im permitted to provide form name & links here ) .... anyway the tread is called " how to be a fish store detective " , it has a plethora of very helpful tips & strategies on how to increase your chances of being successful when purchasing fish from your LFS ... sorry to hear your wows Ben & thanks for the mini fish tour, enjoyable as usual.... happy holidays everyone... cheers🥂
Neither pet smart puts their fish straight into the tanks. Seen it first hand here in Texas. I used to buy from PetSmart but my fish from there, never lasted and died if ich or other sickness. The issue with their method is, if they’re sick, they infect the rest of their fishes. And the other issue, you have to see when they received their shipment. I didn’t know and was buying fish the day they received their shipment. Which explained why they would die within days or weeks. I switch to petco and the one I buy from, the main guy knows his stuff. And he warned me they just received shipment. And hold the fish for a few days before he let me buy it. I currently have 20 fish, (cichlids, black skirts, two other) and none have died. Just finished 3 week quarrying with 4 Damasoni and beautiful colors and doing good. Long story short, two lock fish store, tried them and fish died. It all depends on who takes care of the fish as some employees are dumb as a door knob. The plus to big retailers, take the dead fish back and get your money.
You've been in the hobby to know Petco/Petsmart doesn't quarantine. Or if you don't I am shocked. Petco/Petsmart get their fish from the same distributors usually as local fish stores. In my experience (20+ years in the hobby), I've had better luck with big box store fish than mom and pop stores.
Not always the case. See some of the comments above. Some stores, with the best management, will observe the fish for several weeks before offering them to the public. It's my hardline opinion that if they can't or don't do at least 2 weeks, then they shouldn't be selling fish and setting up new fish keepers for losses and set-backs that end with them abandoning the hobby.
I stopped at Petco for fish and bought two ram cichlids. Both died in two weeks. I took them back, looked in the tank, got them out of saw-clamped fins, and told them they needed to shut that bay down and watch the fish for something going on. I still don't know if they left the sign-up to keep customers from buying them.
Thanks for the video. I ran into the same thing in the last 2 weeks. I have a 65 gallon planted tanks that was cycled and all water parameters were spot on. The tank had no fish but was well planted. I Brought home 1 male and 4 female guppies from petsmart and like clockwork they started dying. Bought fritz Bacter shield treated the tank a couple of times. So I'm left with one male and a fry that somehow was in the tank at the store. So far the last guppy and the fry are ok. So I wish I had seen this video before buying the guppies from Petsmart. We only have one fish store of quality in Ottawa,Ontario which is Big Als so that where I will go from now on.
I think, with what you have experienced, a small mom and pop store, or Aqua COOP, or Dans Fish is the way to go. Petco and Petsmart are the big box stores of the pet industry and like any other big box, its a gamble. Im in a small town in Ont and we have a small fish store here. They are a bit more expensive but the fish are PROPERLY cared for. Thanks for the vid.
PetSmart in Canada has a very limited treatment area in the back for sick fish, at least in Canada. I occasionally buy from them but always quarantine fish regardless where I purchase from because I have learned that lesson the hard way a few times. PetSmart does have a great warranty here so that is something,
Beautiful tanks like always Ben! Getting a 180 gallon tankbwith stand sump filter with pump for free. I know I have a million options to stock it, what would you do with the tank?
Yeah, same here, Ben. The last couple of times, I've been to PetSmart, either half the fish were dead or all the tanks were not selling. The one near me, all the tanks are run within the same water column/system.
Ben we have a Pet Land here in my town. I buy plant cultures there but I do not want to take a chance on fish. I've asked them before, about Quarantining tans with new fish, but they tell me they quarantine for one week! I say that is a load of BS! They don't have a pile of open tanks so I have only seen one or two with "Quarantine" on the glass. I try to find what I am looking for at home based businesses where they can show me their quarantine section.
Hey Ben, I went into my local Petsmart store the other day and was in total shock at the condition of the tanks??? I spoke to the employee who was in the department and asked what the deal was with their aquariums they all looked completely bad. He acted like it was not big deal and just looked at me and walked away. I don't know why petsmart places people in a department that's clueless to how to take care of fish 😢.
Ben. Sorry for your loss. I had same experience when I added a bottom feeder from Pet Smart or Petco into my quarantine tank which became a grow out tank. All of my baby severums got what I thought was ick. I medicated and not sure if Ich x but I added general cure and it really messed up the biology in my substrate and all but 1 died. I now have a separate grow out tank and have a fresh batch of babies. Had another learning experience the three week baby severums were doing well. My severums had another batch of babies. After 10 days I moved 20 to the same grow out tank. Within 10 min the older fry ate all the babies. So now I need to get a new tank or get a divider for my grown out tank. I ultimately got a net sided grow out box and placed inside the 20 grow out to separate 5 babies I later found.
Some of our lessons are hard ones! I'm learning from the comments about Epistylis which can initially look like ich but not as granular and covers the eyes (ich will not cover the eyes). Part of the treatment includes lowering the temp and hitting it with a strong antibiotic like Mardel/Fritz Maracyn 2. Thinking it was ich I raised the temp which might have helped the bacteria get stronger. Grrrrr. Live and learn. Thanks for watching and commenting.
Hi Ben. Here in the uk we have the equivalent stores called " Pets at Home ". I buy often from them, and have to say that I've never experienced a problem with them. I always look closely for signs of fish sickness, and knowing the signs is invaluable. I never quarantine fish either. Maybe I've just been lucky and also just years of keeping fish helps too. In all other differently owned stores I visit, I always see the odd tank here and there, that are off sale and being medicated, it's just normal and happens, but would not say that Pets at Home are any worse.
Your gut feeling was right because you have experienc in fish husbandry. How about that brand new aquariust who maybe are just getting started? Chances are they know very little and are unfortunately setting themselves up for failure. Now they have an empty tank and may give it one more go with the same store. Without proper teaching their best case is experiencing 10% survival with a pleco that will reach 2' long in a 10 gallon. Those types of stores focus on grooming dogs, not grooming successful fish keepers.
I had a batch of bad corydoras kill almost all the fish in my 35 gallon cube last year. I lost a corydora that was almost 10 years old. I only buy fish from one store now where the owner quarantines all fish and breeds many of them in his basement at home.
That is an excellent source of fish. The more comments I read the more I see that my horror story was not an isolated experience. Maybe I'm being too hard but if a big box doesn't quarantine I think they shouldn't sell fish. It's hurting more the helping the hobby. Just my two cents.
@BenOchart I agree with that Ben. I think Petsmart and Petco have taken steps to be better, such as recommended tank sizes on the fish labels. The next step should be some form of quarantine. This is how people end up with an aquarium and 45 medications and chemicals for sale because they got frustrated and quit.
Petsmart and petco neither quarantine there fish they come in and put them in the sale tanks and sale them as soon as someone ask for them. I buy some meds and some frozen food and thats about all. Glad you didn't put straight in your 55 community tank. Thanks for sharing
I've had problems with my local fish stores, two stores in fact (not petsmart or petco), multiple times. I think next time I'm going to buy from a recommended aquarium online retailer. I have heard Flip Aquatics and another thru Aquarium Co-Op (can't recall that one at the moment).
I've had the best luck with on-line fish providers. Cunningham Tropicals, Dave's Rare, Ron's, Beantown Aquatics, there are lots that are super legit, and quarantine. and ensure that any fish shipped is in perfect health before sending it out. Back in Calif there were a couple small shops that i would never buy from. The conditions of the tanks were disgusting.
I have had this happen to me. In my case was ich from my clowns due to keeping them at to low of a temp 80* should be 83+ or so . I lost them, but made a mistake by moving a Peacock over to my other quarantine tank hoping to save him. I ended loosing everyone in my quarantine tank as well. Moral of the story is quarantine every everyone if you don't know if they were not and move sick fish into there own tank.
OMG, Plecos are practically unkillable especially when ich is concern, under my 50 years keeping fish, working at zoo, as an inspector for import of tropical fish I have never seen or heard someone losing a Pleco to ich. But I never shop live animals at these fish chain super stores. TY for a nice channel cheers from Europe!
I think it depends on the store .... my petco is amazing..the guy that cares of the tanks .... is this rocker guy from the 70s ...all the tanks are immaculate ( you can see the passion ) ...then my other petco all the fish are dead and diseased ridden .
For some reason i can't reply - yeah I've found no issues with smaller fish like tetras, rasboras and corys. I can't use salt as all the tanks are heavily planted, although a teaspoon in a 55 gallon couldn't hurt too much
Everytime I purchase from a chain store, they never make it out of quarantine without being treated for some disease they manifest, at least one in each school is a problem.
Sorry that happened Ben, at my local petsmart the took the aquariums and downsized to 5 gallon little box aquariums for all the fish! The fish area is now maybe 50 feet max and the extra space they use to try and sell fish aquariums 😂. Both petco and petsmart really dont know about fish and dont care tbh. Sorry you lost so many. You and yours have a merry Christmas!
What I don't like about PetDumb is they want to question everything about what environment the fish you are buying are going to be put in all the while ignoring the fact that they don't even quarantine their own new fish. I bought fish their once and put them into quarantine and they all got Epistylis and died.
Gorgeous betta! Is it a black samurai betta bro? And I know goldfish are expensive bro, but you can get small babies and groom them. I am also doing the same bhai.
So the first thing I noticed, you say that the fish that had been in your quarantine tank were the first to die. That leads me to believe that they were the fish that were originally infected and had been sick longer without you noticing. It’s unrealistic and a bit naïve for you to assume that a high volume pet store with 100 tanks in the front of their store to have another hundred tanks in the back of their store to quarantine new arrivals for several weeks! You should’ve waited until your quarantine tanks were empty before adding new fish.. You roll the dice and you lost. You can get sick fish from anywhere. It’s your quarantine procedures that failed you.
Nope. They were three weeks in QT and looking perfect. This was definitely brought in by the new additions. Without question. Where QT procedures did fail was not having a second QT tank. Also, there is no reason why a retailer couldn’t dedicate backroom floor space to quarantine tanks. If they can’t, then they shouldn’t sell fish. It kills off too many new fish keepers. It would be the responsible way to sell fish and I’m not going to make excuses for their poor protocols.
They recently started running separate vertical sections, each with it's own sump. But do they shut a section down when there's disease? Do they cross contaminate with nets? My trust, even with their new separate sumps systems is gone after this recent event.
I quarantine my fish depending on where I get them, if I get from Petsmart or Petco, 30 days top. If I get them from my LFS I might just do 14 days. But I always quarantine my new guys..
Check out Epistylis. It's something someone mentioned in the comments and I think it's what I imported from PetSmart. It might be what wiped out your tank (I'm very sorry to hear that). Epistylis looks like ich, but not as granular (can look velvety) and will cover the eyes, where ich will not. It will not respond to ich treatment protocols. The treatment includes lowering temp (I raised the temp thinking it was ich and my have helped the disease spread!) and hitting it with something strong like Maracyn 2. Sometimes fish keepers get hard lessons. Thanks for watching and commenting.
I think it’s very naïve and unrealistic to expect a large chain box store selling fish at rock bottom prices to quarantine Fish prior to sale. Even most mom and Pop shops don’t quarantine their fish. It’s a matter of scale and economics. I’m sure that’s not new information to you being an experienced Fish keeper
If it's the same kind as mine you only need one and it starts having baby snails. I started with one and now have a hundred. They can be hard on plants because they bury themselves and can uproot them. But, yes they look amazing and are my favorite snail.
My apologies I knew it was petsmart I miss worded it but none the less I believe stock from both places gives you unhealthy fish I see so many dead fish in both establishments and there eating the dead ones on the bottom of the tank it’s terrible I have a 600 gallon fresh water tank predator tank and a 220 gallon freshwater tank where you could drink the water from both tanks I hate seeing fish abuse but my apologies I ment to say petsmart I saw it afterwards I commented
Just bought 2 baby oscars from petsmart for the 1st time. Never bought from petsmart before. And I noticed that several tank displays had no surface tension at all. Completely still water. I told the innocent girl that helped me that I said I dont think they are getting any oxygen. Was weird to me.
Sorry, but I just dont buy this story from anyone with experience. I also have bought and helped others with fish at big stores, and I've never had anyone as downright unknowledgeable as your claiming. Sorry. You should watch this again and think about what you're saying. It's not realistic for an experienced keeper.
I dont know why you go there to begin with …..at your level dont u feel like a petco petsmart type store is beneath u …. I never even think about these stores cuz i know theyre on an amateur level of fishkeeping these stores are for beginners only u are waaaay past this long ago
I’ve actually scored a few winners from big box stores in the past. I’m obviously an optimistic fool. But for now I’m DONE with them. Not because I feel they are “beneath” me, but because I’m not willing to take a risk with their poor protocols.
@ not meaning to be stuck up about it its just i feel like these stores r on an amateur level but u r obviously well past that i personally only goto privately owned cuz theyre always better quality all around
Beautiful tanks like always Ben! Getting a 180 gallon tankbwith stand sump filter with pump for free. I know I have a million options to stock it, what would you do with the tank?
If I were you I'd give that tank to a dude named Ben Ochart ... LOL! 180 gallons gives you a tremendous canvas to work on. From an epic wood and plant community to massive rockscape mbuna tank. You have endless choices. How are you going to filter it?
I believe each single or group of fish needs its own quarantine tank not mixing new fish in same quarantine tank
yeah, i would have assumed people would keep the batches separate
I've never had a problem quarantining different species in the same tank. Saves space, time, medication and money. 🤷♂️
Pet Smart will never set up quarantine tanks. Costs to much money.
Hi Ben I’ve dealt with that disease my self it’s called epistylis it looks like ich but kills your fish off way faster than ich ever would usually to cure it use maracyn 2 and water changes daily and lower the temp a few degrees in the tank sorry for your loss that sucks I agree pecto fish are terrible I feel bad for them
You might be right. I’m going to look into epistylis. Thanks!
@@FishTankMonsters I dealt with the same disease a few months back. It killed a lot of my Cichlids (a convict, 3 geos, a blue ram). By the time I was able to figure out what disease was killing my fish, it was too late. My blue ram was about 3 years old and the geos and the convict were about 5 years old. It broke my heart.
That's what it sounds like to me also. Epistylis. @@BenOchart
Petco story; I bought 3 softball size fancy goldfish. They all started to waste away in quarantine! Faces rotting off, just horrible devastation! I tried heat, salt, meds, just the nastiest thing I've EVER dealt with in fish. I went back with the carcasses and got my money back, then proceeded to inform the fish people. The whole goldfish area was sick! Very sick! I didn't see anything the week before.
I talked to the fish guy, he said they could only go natural routes, no General Cure, Ick X, etc. I made it a point to not even go back there to see the devastation.
I should preface this with their behavior was 100% sulking at the bottom of the tank. I didn't get what was happening until almost a week in that something was seriously wrong.
I've been given massive discounts on imperfect fish and have been given for free a fish that had a gas from Petco and am thrilled with the results, the fish recovered beautifully and are more active here than they were at Petco, probably due to my 9-ft tank, curious why you would drop close to 150 dollars I'm fish that were imperfect or they just started to fall apart once you got home and you qualified every test whatsoever to determine that you had no issues?
Sucks that happened to you and it sucks that a store continues to operate like that, I've seen very little in the way of subpar corporate pet stores in the last decade
@@GreenCanvasInteriorscape Yep, $150 because a few predacious owls found my pond, and I lost 4 fancies, probably more! Net is up now.
The fish straight up were beautiful with no imperfections. If I had caught them earlier, I probably could have saved them. The store has always been good otherwise.
A PetSmart refused selling me sick fish to rescue because they were sick, they were Goldfish as well. I get where you're coming from rescuing, and I'm really glad you were able to do that.
Come on people. How would a big retailer quarantine fish. I've been in the when they got a shipment. It would be physically impossible. You should find out your pet stores schedule and just don't get fish on delivery day. Big stores will never have the space no staff to quarantine hundreds of fish a week. I just talk to them and pick my days to shop
There is no reason whatsoever why PetSmart couldn’t set up quarantine tanks.
Breeders who receive massive shipments, like Predatory Fins, never flip fish without some QT time. The only reason this PetSmart doesn’t quarantine is they don’t want to or don’t care or a combination of both.
I’m not going to wink at or make excuses for irresponsible selling that does more harm than good for the hobby.
I agree with you Ben. Big box store fish are not worth the risk.
Did that 4 years ago, and every fish I was fishing quarantined and still died after 3 weeks. One came with a parasite that ran rampage through 3 synodontis and 12 rainbows. Never again, I look at big box pet stores as something for people who are new to the hobby or else I get better prices and selection from my LFS. I was aswell Mr nice guy with pet smart thinking they would flip but never did. Nearly 200$ thrown away. Stay happy and healthy my friend!
You and I have arrived at the same conclusion.
Thank you for watching and commenting.
I dont believe PetSmart or PetCo quarantine their new arrivals. They'll tell you when their fish come in if you ask them. In my experience, all any of them do is float the bags.
Some managers will hold off for a couple of weeks before selling (see comments above). Some department managers either don't know or don't care. Regardless, I'm done with PetSmart. Not worth the risk. I'm just happy that my fish room didn't cross-contaminate.
@BenOchart That must be very rare. I have never, in any of the Box Stores (or the feed store that sells fish for that matter) seen them do a minute's worth of quarantine around me here in Illinois. They come off the truck and go immediately into the tanks.
Gosh, can you imagine had you put those fish directly into your established tank? Oofta, thank God for experience and quarantine tanks!
Ben,
I am so sorry for your loss my friend. From my Experience and researching fish Clown loaches are very sensitive to bacteria and ICH and stuff like that. They are usually the first to catch whatever is in the tank, They are scaleless fish and there is even some medicines you can't use with them. I have had pretty good luck with my Petco's and Petsmarts near me. They quarantine their fish in the back for at least a week before they sell them. I have talked to the managers of the aquatics and that is what they tell me. Whether it's true or not is another thing. I don't like Neons I think they are to fragile and die really fast. I had a group of them and they died pretty quick within about 6 months or so. Clown loaches are expensive and cute fish. I would never keep them though because they are so sensitive to stuff. I only dealt with Ick once and I was able to kill it. It sounds like you got Epistylis instead of ICH. I also lost a golden Severum about 5 days ago. Just out of the blue he got Sick and It looks like it may have been HITH but it came on and it looked like little white pimples on his head and face. I did a Water change of 80 percent and I thought it was going away but it wasn't getting better so I dosed the tank with poly guard and it was to late and he passed. I was so upset he was so pretty :( It's always sad when a fish dies and you raised them from a baby. He was a petsmart fish as well. I think each store is different. My petsmart locally got a snail problem and they didn't know what to do so I told them to put there clown loaches in the tanks and they will eat the snails. They said really I said yep and they asked there manager about it and when i came in a few days after they had loaches in the tanks lol. eating the snails. So sorry Ben. :(
Sounds like you have good management at your local big box store. So sorry about that severum. I imagine that sometimes the surface signs can be the last to show up.
I glad to hear that your local store took your advice on the clowns. I might send the link to this video to PetSmart corporate and make some suggestions. It's my opinion that if they can't QT then they shouldn't sell fish since it just gives new fish keepers losses and they then abandon the hobby.
The Big Box stores in some cases killed off the smaller Mom & Pops LFSs, so we have a very awkward situation going on.
For me, the biggest takeaway here is that there are new strains of virus' that we tend to miscalculate the odds over despite awareness of. When I have obtained fish from the two most popular big box stores, they have for the most part worked out, and honestly, between Petsmart and Petco, I have generally felt (The two Petco's in town) are more on-top when it comes to sales of healthy fish. That being said, thank you for the big heads up- we may be confident of past experiences including use of meds, but nature reminds us, it is in charge in the virus/bacteria dept! Quarentine is the word of the day to mitigate potential large scale losses. I need to remember this - Thanks for posting, Ben!😬
I’ve had a similar experience and agree that PetCo is a cut above. I noticed it back in California.
I've never had an issue with fish from PetSmart. I'm looking at a 4 year old albino Cory from PetSmart right now.
Why does petsmart have a 4 year old cory?
@saltykraken9471 No the Cory came from PetSmart 4 years ago...should have been more clear.
It's all good I misread the comment. That would have been one lonely cory lol.
@@saltykraken9471 Lol, for sure.
Big box stores may got their fish from the same place as mom & pop shops, but they’ll hire everybody and anybody to do the job even though they have no idea what they’re doing. That’s why I don’t buy from big box stores. I love going to family owned places where they’re passionate about fish and know what they’re doing
That is now my firm policy. I’ve had luck in the past with big box stores and they certainly have a place in the hobby but it’s LFSs from now on for me.
Thanks for watching and commenting.
It sounds like your local petsmart is not up to par. The thumbnail was a bit click baity in my opinion and doesn’t represent PetSmart as a whole. As you said it varies store to store. The PetSmart in my area actually does a pretty darn good job.
My experience has indicated that it’s each store’s manager that makes the difference
@@BenOchart Corporate has a huge say in the daily operations of these big box stores. They lay out the foundations for daily operations.Mangers are there to help facilitate them. They get the say in the hiring. If you elect mediocre you get mediocre.
I won't buy fish from a big box store for this reason, they have no way to quarantine their new weekly shipments, and the associates usually know absolutely nothing about the aquarium/fish hobby, other than "fish go in water".
If buying fish, go with a store that specialize in the aquarium hobby or find local breeders who are always willing to show you their entire stock, those guys/gals are always proud of their tanks and will not sell a fish they think is sick.
Also, do not forget to quarantine the new fish you buy for at least two weeks minimum in their own tank, do not mix equipment with your other tanks, keep the tank dark and also do not feed them for the first 24 hours.
Same thing happened to me but from fish from a LFS I checked out. They had some nice 3in Blue Acaras and I could not resist not buying them for my planted 75. I didn’t have a quarantine tank at the time and added them into my main tank. A week passed and I saw white spots on all 4 blue acaras. I thought it was ich and decided to increase the temp and use ich x. Couple days passed and it kept getting worse, I ended up losing 2 blue Acaras and it spread to 2 Electric Blue Acaras and 2 Denison Barbs. I did some deep research and concluded that it wasn’t Ich but Epistylis, cause the white spots weren’t flat on the fish body, it stuck out. It’s a Protozoa that anchors itself to your fish and eats the bacteria off its skin and in the water column. I moved the acaras into a hospital tank and started treatment with salt, ich x and paracleanse. I stopped feeding the main tank for a few days with the 2 infected Denison barbs still in the tank and did a 90% water change. That definitely helped as I didn’t see white spots on the Denison barbs after a day or two. But I believe I was late to react with the Acaras as I lost 1 of the 2 EBA and am left with 2 blue Acaras and 1 EBA. The salt with ich X and para cleanse definitely helped as it removed the white spots off the body of the fish overnight. Now I’m dealing with secondary infections! Hope they make it😔
Sounds like it might be epistylis which is similar to ich. I've only come across it once in my 40+ years of keeping fish and I couldn't beat it. Got it from a Petsmart fish, go figure. Raising temp like ich makes it worse.
I think you're right. I looked into it and the description (not as granular, velvety, over the eyes, where ich will not go over the eyes ...) all point to epistylis. And yes, following ich protocol of raising the temp helped it get stronger.
Sometimes the lessons one learns in this hobby are hard ones!
I almost didn't bring this up in a video, but now I'm glad I did since epistylis was not on my radar. Thanks.
@@BenOchart I believe that epistylis is what my fish contracted as well. I lost 85% of 3 different batches of fish. This is why a quarantine tank is a absolute must.
I took this quarantine tank (10 gallon) and used bleach to clean/soak everything that touched the water. This quarantine tank is out of service right now. I'm holding off getting any more fish until spring.
Sad story Ben , ive personally never purchased any fish from petsmart, ... FYI there's a thread on a fish form im a member of ( not sure if im permitted to provide form name & links here ) .... anyway the tread is called " how to be a fish store detective " , it has a plethora of very helpful tips & strategies on how to increase your chances of being successful when purchasing fish from your LFS ... sorry to hear your wows Ben & thanks for the mini fish tour, enjoyable as usual.... happy holidays everyone... cheers🥂
Neither pet smart puts their fish straight into the tanks. Seen it first hand here in Texas. I used to buy from PetSmart but my fish from there, never lasted and died if ich or other sickness. The issue with their method is, if they’re sick, they infect the rest of their fishes.
And the other issue, you have to see when they received their shipment. I didn’t know and was buying fish the day they received their shipment. Which explained why they would die within days or weeks.
I switch to petco and the one I buy from, the main guy knows his stuff. And he warned me they just received shipment. And hold the fish for a few days before he let me buy it. I currently have 20 fish, (cichlids, black skirts, two other) and none have died. Just finished 3 week quarrying with 4 Damasoni and beautiful colors and doing good.
Long story short, two lock fish store, tried them and fish died. It all depends on who takes care of the fish as some employees are dumb as a door knob.
The plus to big retailers, take the dead fish back and get your money.
I never use medication for ich, it will affect sensitive fish badly. Raise the temp to 86-87F and wait a week
That would work if the fish can take that temp. I imagine most can. Do you use salt?
You've been in the hobby to know Petco/Petsmart doesn't quarantine. Or if you don't I am shocked. Petco/Petsmart get their fish from the same distributors usually as local fish stores. In my experience (20+ years in the hobby), I've had better luck with big box store fish than mom and pop stores.
Not always the case. See some of the comments above. Some stores, with the best management, will observe the fish for several weeks before offering them to the public. It's my hardline opinion that if they can't or don't do at least 2 weeks, then they shouldn't be selling fish and setting up new fish keepers for losses and set-backs that end with them abandoning the hobby.
exactly the reason i only buy from highly trusted sources
I stopped at Petco for fish and bought two ram cichlids. Both died in two weeks. I took them back, looked in the tank, got them out of saw-clamped fins, and told them they needed to shut that bay down and watch the fish for something going on. I still don't know if they left the sign-up to keep customers from buying them.
I hope they did and good for you for speaking up about it.
Rams can be delicate at the best of times, and need very good specific water parameters to live in and do well.
Thanks for the video. I ran into the same thing in the last 2 weeks. I have a 65 gallon planted tanks that was cycled and all water parameters were spot on. The tank had no fish but was well planted. I Brought home 1 male and 4 female guppies from petsmart and like clockwork they started dying. Bought fritz Bacter shield treated the tank a couple of times. So I'm left with one male and a fry that somehow was in the tank at the store. So far the last guppy and the fry are ok. So I wish I had seen this video before buying the guppies from Petsmart. We only have one fish store of quality in Ottawa,Ontario which is Big Als so that where I will go from now on.
I never add fish from Big Box stores to any tanks in my fish room. I’ve been there before. I would recommend you give those fish their own tank.
I think, with what you have experienced, a small mom and pop store, or Aqua COOP, or Dans Fish is the way to go. Petco and Petsmart are the big box stores of the pet industry and like any other big box, its a gamble. Im in a small town in Ont and we have a small fish store here. They are a bit more expensive but the fish are PROPERLY cared for. Thanks for the vid.
PetSmart in Canada has a very limited treatment area in the back for sick fish, at least in Canada. I occasionally buy from them but always quarantine fish regardless where I purchase from because I have learned that lesson the hard way a few times. PetSmart does have a great warranty here so that is something,
Beautiful tanks like always Ben! Getting a 180 gallon tankbwith stand sump filter with pump for free. I know I have a million options to stock it, what would you do with the tank?
Yeah, same here, Ben. The last couple of times, I've been to PetSmart, either half the fish were dead or all the tanks were not selling. The one near me, all the tanks are run within the same water column/system.
Ben we have a Pet Land here in my town. I buy plant cultures there but I do not want to take a chance on fish. I've asked them before, about Quarantining tans with new fish, but they tell me they quarantine for one week! I say that is a load of BS! They don't have a pile of open tanks so I have only seen one or two with "Quarantine" on the glass. I try to find what I am looking for at home based businesses where they can show me their quarantine section.
Hey Ben, I went into my local Petsmart store the other day and was in total shock at the condition of the tanks??? I spoke to the employee who was in the department and asked what the deal was with their aquariums they all looked completely bad. He acted like it was not big deal and just looked at me and walked away. I don't know why petsmart places people in a department that's clueless to how to take care of fish 😢.
Ben. Sorry for your loss. I had same experience when I added a bottom feeder from Pet Smart or Petco into my quarantine tank which became a grow out tank. All of my baby severums got what I thought was ick. I medicated and not sure if Ich x but I added general cure and it really messed up the biology in my substrate and all but 1 died. I now have a separate grow out tank and have a fresh batch of babies. Had another learning experience the three week baby severums were doing well. My severums had another batch of babies. After 10 days I moved 20 to the same grow out tank. Within 10 min the older fry ate all the babies. So now I need to get a new tank or get a divider for my grown out tank. I ultimately got a net sided grow out box and placed inside the 20 grow out to separate 5 babies I later found.
Some of our lessons are hard ones! I'm learning from the comments about Epistylis which can initially look like ich but not as granular and covers the eyes (ich will not cover the eyes). Part of the treatment includes lowering the temp and hitting it with a strong antibiotic like Mardel/Fritz Maracyn 2.
Thinking it was ich I raised the temp which might have helped the bacteria get stronger. Grrrrr. Live and learn.
Thanks for watching and commenting.
Hi Ben. Here in the uk we have the equivalent stores called " Pets at Home ". I buy often from them, and have to say that I've never experienced a problem with them. I always look closely for signs of fish sickness, and knowing the signs is invaluable. I never quarantine fish either. Maybe I've just been lucky and also just years of keeping fish helps too. In all other differently owned stores I visit, I always see the odd tank here and there, that are off sale and being medicated, it's just normal and happens, but would not say that Pets at Home are any worse.
Your gut feeling was right because you have experienc in fish husbandry. How about that brand new aquariust who maybe are just getting started? Chances are they know very little and are unfortunately setting themselves up for
failure. Now they have an empty tank and may give it one more go with the same store. Without proper teaching their best case is experiencing 10% survival with a pleco that will reach 2' long in a 10 gallon. Those types of stores focus on grooming dogs, not grooming successful fish keepers.
Very well said. It hurts more than helps the hobby by killing off new fish keepers.
I had a batch of bad corydoras kill almost all the fish in my 35 gallon cube last year. I lost a corydora that was almost 10 years old. I only buy fish from one store now where the owner quarantines all fish and breeds many of them in his basement at home.
That is an excellent source of fish.
The more comments I read the more I see that my horror story was not an isolated experience. Maybe I'm being too hard but if a big box doesn't quarantine I think they shouldn't sell fish. It's hurting more the helping the hobby. Just my two cents.
@BenOchart I agree with that Ben. I think Petsmart and Petco have taken steps to be better, such as recommended tank sizes on the fish labels. The next step should be some form of quarantine. This is how people end up with an aquarium and 45 medications and chemicals for sale because they got frustrated and quit.
Petsmart and petco neither quarantine there fish they come in and put them in the sale tanks and sale them as soon as someone ask for them. I buy some meds and some frozen food and thats about all. Glad you didn't put straight in your 55 community tank. Thanks for sharing
I've had problems with my local fish stores, two stores in fact (not petsmart or petco), multiple times.
I think next time I'm going to buy from a recommended aquarium online retailer.
I have heard Flip Aquatics and another thru Aquarium Co-Op (can't recall that one at the moment).
I've had the best luck with on-line fish providers. Cunningham Tropicals, Dave's Rare, Ron's, Beantown Aquatics, there are lots that are super legit, and quarantine. and ensure that any fish shipped is in perfect health before sending it out.
Back in Calif there were a couple small shops that i would never buy from. The conditions of the tanks were disgusting.
I have had this happen to me. In my case was ich from my clowns due to keeping them at to low of a temp 80* should be 83+ or so . I lost them, but made a mistake by moving a Peacock over to my other quarantine tank hoping to save him. I ended loosing everyone in my quarantine tank as well. Moral of the story is quarantine every everyone if you don't know if they were not and move sick fish into there own tank.
OMG, Plecos are practically unkillable especially when ich is concern, under my 50 years keeping fish, working at zoo, as an inspector for import of tropical fish I have never seen or heard someone losing a Pleco to ich. But I never shop live animals at these fish chain super stores. TY for a nice channel cheers from Europe!
We call what you term rummy nose, "brilliant rasboras".
They are one of my favorite fresh water fish. What part of the world are you in?
@@BenOchart Minnesota
I think it depends on the store .... my petco is amazing..the guy that cares of the tanks .... is this rocker guy from the 70s ...all the tanks are immaculate ( you can see the passion ) ...then my other petco all the fish are dead and diseased ridden .
I agree 100%. A good department manager makes all the difference in the world.
Thanks for watching and commenting.
For some reason i can't reply - yeah I've found no issues with smaller fish like tetras, rasboras and corys. I can't use salt as all the tanks are heavily planted, although a teaspoon in a 55 gallon couldn't hurt too much
Everytime I purchase from a chain store, they never make it out of quarantine without being treated for some disease they manifest, at least one in each school is a problem.
Sorry that happened Ben, at my local petsmart the took the aquariums and downsized to 5 gallon little box aquariums for all the fish! The fish area is now maybe 50 feet max and the extra space they use to try and sell fish aquariums 😂. Both petco and petsmart really dont know about fish and dont care tbh. Sorry you lost so many. You and yours have a merry Christmas!
What I don't like about PetDumb is they want to question everything about what environment the fish you are buying are going to be put in all the while ignoring the fact that they don't even quarantine their own new fish. I bought fish their once and put them into quarantine and they all got Epistylis and died.
Ive always had the best luck at buying fish from mom & pop fish stores rather than the BIG box stores.
I bought a lot of fish from petsmart and never had a problem.
That’s great. Your store manager must be on top of things.
Corporations and pets do not mix, corporations and health do not mix
You just uttered a VERY PROFOND truth that goes way beyond fish keeping. Thanks!
I believe neon tetras play dead. It's their way of showing displeasure
Got 30 Cardinal tetras from aqua huna. Lost all of them to ick. They looked great for 3 weeks in quarantine.
Back ground Music :- Is there a party going on Ben :)
Just lightening the dark mood of the topic 😉😀
Gorgeous betta! Is it a black samurai betta bro? And I know goldfish are expensive bro, but you can get small babies and groom them. I am also doing the same bhai.
So the first thing I noticed, you say that the fish that had been in your quarantine tank were the first to die. That leads me to believe that they were the fish that were originally infected and had been sick longer without you noticing. It’s unrealistic and a bit naïve for you to assume that a high volume pet store with 100 tanks in the front of their store to have another hundred tanks in the back of their store to quarantine new arrivals for several weeks! You should’ve waited until your quarantine tanks were empty before adding new fish.. You roll the dice and you lost. You can get sick fish from anywhere. It’s your quarantine procedures that failed you.
Nope. They were three weeks in QT and looking perfect. This was definitely brought in by the new additions. Without question.
Where QT procedures did fail was not having a second QT tank.
Also, there is no reason why a retailer couldn’t dedicate backroom floor space to quarantine tanks. If they can’t, then they shouldn’t sell fish. It kills off too many new fish keepers. It would be the responsible way to sell fish and I’m not going to make excuses for their poor protocols.
Hi got to get a 20gal aquarium for when I get new fish
Oh man you bought them those impulse buys kills
Guilty as charged😳
All of petsmart tanks are plumbed together. One fish sick all fish sick.
They recently started running separate vertical sections, each with it's own sump. But do they shut a section down when there's disease? Do they cross contaminate with nets? My trust, even with their new separate sumps systems is gone after this recent event.
Never had luck in big box stores.poor fish a short life.after buying an angel black .lost 6 fish in quarantine all but the black. Petco to
I quarantine my fish depending on where I get them, if I get from Petsmart or Petco, 30 days top. If I get them from my LFS I might just do 14 days. But I always quarantine my new guys..
I literally just lost a whole tank like 30 fish from a 24$ deal from Petco...., from a ich looking disease in less than 3 days
Check out Epistylis. It's something someone mentioned in the comments and I think it's what I imported from PetSmart. It might be what wiped out your tank (I'm very sorry to hear that).
Epistylis looks like ich, but not as granular (can look velvety) and will cover the eyes, where ich will not. It will not respond to ich treatment protocols. The treatment includes lowering temp (I raised the temp thinking it was ich and my have helped the disease spread!) and hitting it with something strong like Maracyn 2.
Sometimes fish keepers get hard lessons.
Thanks for watching and commenting.
I will buy from petsmart if they have something I really want. I’ll only buy if they look great, and I can quarantine them for a month at least.
I think it’s very naïve and unrealistic to expect a large chain box store selling fish at rock bottom prices to quarantine Fish prior to sale.
Even most mom and Pop shops don’t quarantine their fish. It’s a matter of scale and economics.
I’m sure that’s not new information to you being an experienced Fish keeper
Turn the heat up to 86f.
I have never had a problem with petsmart fish or Petco
You can tell PetSmart doesn't know anything about fish by the way their people answer questions. Never buy from them!
I never had a fish that i got from PetSmart that live more than a week
I love ur snail I got one for lisa at kg Tropicals an man this snail is a tank
If it's the same kind as mine you only need one and it starts having baby snails. I started with one and now have a hundred. They can be hard on plants because they bury themselves and can uproot them. But, yes they look amazing and are my favorite snail.
Nice
There no other place here
Yeah not just fish. Snails too. 🤷
Took ya this long figure this out ? lol
You’ll get ich every single time.
All their tanks are on a single system.
Sell ya ich meds
And petsmart
It was PetSmart. Did you mean PetCo?
My apologies I knew it was petsmart I miss worded it but none the less I believe stock from both places gives you unhealthy fish I see so many dead fish in both establishments and there eating the dead ones on the bottom of the tank it’s terrible I have a 600 gallon fresh water tank predator tank and a 220 gallon freshwater tank where you could drink the water from both tanks I hate seeing fish abuse but my apologies I ment to say petsmart I saw it afterwards I commented
Just bought 2 baby oscars from petsmart for the 1st time. Never bought from petsmart before. And I noticed that several tank displays had no surface tension at all. Completely still water. I told the innocent girl that helped me that I said I dont think they are getting any oxygen. Was weird to me.
Sorry, but I just dont buy this story from anyone with experience. I also have bought and helped others with fish at big stores, and I've never had anyone as downright unknowledgeable as your claiming. Sorry. You should watch this again and think about what you're saying. It's not realistic for an experienced keeper.
bad mic
I dont know why you go there to begin with …..at your level dont u feel like a petco petsmart type store is beneath u …. I never even think about these stores cuz i know theyre on an amateur level of fishkeeping these stores are for beginners only u are waaaay past this long ago
I’ve actually scored a few winners from big box stores in the past. I’m obviously an optimistic fool. But for now I’m DONE with them. Not because I feel they are “beneath” me, but because I’m not willing to take a risk with their poor protocols.
@ not meaning to be stuck up about it its just i feel like these stores r on an amateur level but u r obviously well past that i personally only goto privately owned cuz theyre always better quality all around
Beautiful tanks like always Ben! Getting a 180 gallon tankbwith stand sump filter with pump for free. I know I have a million options to stock it, what would you do with the tank?
If I were you I'd give that tank to a dude named Ben Ochart ... LOL! 180 gallons gives you a tremendous canvas to work on. From an epic wood and plant community to massive rockscape mbuna tank. You have endless choices. How are you going to filter it?
@BenOchart it' has a 40 gallon sump tank and pump!