Great video this is what we need as we all go through this minefield trying to get DCC chips to be just perfect. Very informative to be continued> so stay tuned as they say :)
You can make ESU work with cordless motors it just takes a lot… I mean a lot of cv changing. Tramfabrek has some recommended settings that work pretty well across the board
I got my locomotion yesterday and found similar issues , but they are easily rectifyable.. I think the squeak was the vertical connecting rods rubbing in the slots on the side walkways...bit of oil sorted that. The stuttery stop start running seems to be the axle based pickup springs on both loco and tender ( yes tender has pickups) which had too much oil.. and the wheels, I felt there was a certain film left by the manufacturing process. So contact cleaner on the springs around the axle, then very small amount of oil where axles meet the body, and cleaned the wheels. The running is much improved. 👍. Also extended running in helps. I have fitted a Bachmann 36-567A which is a rebadged zimo mx618....unbelievable crawl with this , and really fab motor control generally....its a brilliant model..
@@markweightman3805 Thank you for all this. When I tested tender only on tracks the loco didn’t respond so interesting. I don’t have any squeak as such thankfully. I’m a little jaded with decoder issues but, it’s gone off for inspection 👍
@modeloco Not surprised.. Had my fairshare with an Oxford Adams radial and esu... Anyhow a zimo next 18 makes the No1 purr. Hope Esu do the right thing for your defunct decoder. 🤞
@ Hopefully yes thanks too. It’s been a struggle tbh. Just got it a bit closer and got 30mins. Love the Zimo in my TT120 Class 08 and no issues with HM7000’s. Fingers crossed x
Some historical notes On Opening Day, Active (Locomotion No.1) ran between 4 and 8 mph. Given a 4 foot diameter wheel, that works out to 2 to 4 chuffs per second. Locomotion, for all the exotic valve gear, was a 4 chuff per wheel rotation locomotive. Bog standard sound per wheel rotation. The blast pipe was still in development, so the full throated sound of a normal locomotive will be lacking.
Also according to the instructions for chuff timing you really shouldn’t be using cv249 unless you need to curtail sound distortion at higher speeds on very small driving wheels
Hi Andy Dion here (You know the first Mug guy from Blackpool) My question is where do you get that rolling road, it looks very clean and tidy my friend.Any help will be appreciated, Thanks
@@dionwoollaston2389 Hello Dion, The mug stars in most videos and will never forget this gift or the pics you sent. Hope the layout is going well. The rolling road was a bargain on Amazon compared to other places. It was… £76 as they do go on sale at different times if you can wait. At present they’re £85.96 I’ve just checked. I also got a spare set of rollers off Jadlam Racing but, through their eBay store so check both for best price inc’ delivery. At present they’re £19.99 directly off Jadlam with free shipping. I paid quite a lot less about £12.79 I recall off them but, hey ho. Hope that helps and yeah love the Hornby One. PS if you can leave a wire connected to it that may be a good idea as the little plugs aren’t the strongest of designs so don’t like a lot of put in, take out. That said super little addition to your work bench area👍👍👍👍
@ yes I watch every video sometimes twice or three times ( I’m not obsessed lol ) because they are so good and informative Andy I love the storage system you have made you are so talented and the way your doing things in the garden and shed but it’s too cold outside at this time of the year I don’t know about global warming hahaha Love the hair by the way I keep saying to the wife that I want a buzz cut and she goes mad , I say it don’t matter nobody sees me anyway Yes I have put six more 8x2 boards up over the existing layout and made a new end to end and three of them just villages and a coach depot no track or locos on those.oh I have build a new layout up in the loft with four tracks and about twenty locos and trucks So plenty of things to be going on with thanks for the answer I’ll have a look now Thanks
@ Oh superb stuff. Sounds like you’re busy. How strange my other half was saying to do it and shave your head Andy for 3 plus years. So much attachment to it and okay’ish on camera but, got odd remark. In reality it was no more really after 2020 without Caboki and no more waking up now with it on my forehead and in my eyes lol 😂
@ I don’t know how old you are Andy but I’m 56 and past caring what people think of me I was 28 stone and then had a gastric bypass ten years ago and I now weigh under 11 stone so 17 stone down which I can’t believe it myself I know you are giging so your looks are important to you but really it’s the sounds you make that are really important so sod it lol
We all have these journeys to take and most are in bodies that seemingly challenge us in so many different ways. My body never craved food but, it certainly lets me know if I don’t eat right and the right stuff so the pain can help teach us too. The body is just the vehicle, it’s what’s within that counts whatever the size or hair as you say. It troubles me that so many kids don’t love themselves and we have to learn to do that because it’s been too long, left untaught. Those who give out bad vibrational energy are usually suffering deeply too, it’s about them, not those they hurt and they’re not usually hating but, actually admiring, neglected by love and unable to celebrate and share their own inner joy and beauty so it becomes inverted completely and they then begin to become devoid of it. When we as a society then trust and put more of these types in positions of power to serve us then we see the resulting inversion on a much grander scale until it consumes itself again ❤️
I’m still waiting for my locomotion 1 to arrive, hopefully it be here tomorrow or Monday. I think ESU Is the best sound decoder on the market, very versatile in what you can program and produce on to the decoder. Components fail from time to time. Don’t quote me but I think ESU if a 2 year warranty on there decoders. It maybe time to upgrade your controller?
I though I would take a rest today. Well, you've done a little work on critical mistakes, I've see some improvements, very good, I'm happy. - you kneeled camera on yourself while working with lok, so it is more natural to see "from your eyes". But it is much better to record from your shoulder (lef or right), so camera would not disturb you and you can film things much closer (45 angle horizontal and 45 vertical would be first point to find ideal position) - seems you filmed some parts 60p, but forgot to control video software and it cut 60fps parts to small fps parts, so really you uploaded 30 fps. When you would upload 60fps, you would see it in YT near 4k (4k60fps) - but even 30fps much better that those you made before, it looks nice and smooth with working part. For running parts looks like software where you make film crushed video smootheness (you need to check best setting in the Premier and check box with double control), but even this is much better than 24fps, yet I can see locomotive. - you put camera closer, that is really nice for running, but you could do it much clother for some parts - if you would improve things above than you can think about light. For working process it is very nice, for running I thing you have too much from above and lack from sides. And it is better to have paper covering your lamp (it cost almost nothing) - for sure you could make shorter videos, 10+- minutes would be enough and easy to make Altough I've catched jokes from your support team I think they could tell you thanks that you make at least this critical things, and for sure they would be happy to see new variant.
Now we can speak about the topic. I'm quite suprised with a lot of things which you tell/read. First of all ESU is a really bad decoders. As you can see it could not handle with care over this motor. New generation MN/MS could do it perfectly well. Back-EMF autoadjusting was really fun. Somebody really think it made it right? No way... This process could be only manual and no one produce any decoder which could help to find you best PID and Back-EMF settings. I've done some research why. Coreless motor is definately what this model needs. I think Mike from Model Railways Unlimited could take care of it. First time I've heard some problems with decoder. CM can not work with PWM 2 stage (obviously all model analog PWM controller), but work fine with MX/MN and many other decoders, even exotic like SoundGT2 decoders. So those BT decoder are really bad. And it is important to choose coreless motor type in settings. Some tricks for Locomotion - first I would connect all wheels to the power (4 pairs is a great option, much better than a lot of 2-3 pairs normal locos), so it is not problem at all, so this loc even has got an advantage from many standarts product - for sound I would install really big dynamic inside those big car which you connect to this train, and it would be surprise for those people who would hear it, I thing a little lifting of sound source would be much better than worst one in right place
For sound decoders, I'm only using ESU, and they have never failed. For non-sound decoders, I have some Zimo's, Lenz, and even Hornby. Maybe I'm not expecting too much, but I've always been happy with ESU. So, if they are really bad decoders, who makes really good ones?
@@mariuszs.3029 the problem of ESU decoders are not that they are failed or not, the main issue in the technology of motor control and sound projects. As you see in this video ESU does not take care of PID and Back-EMF well. This is worst decoder company ever for me. And that is the main technology of locomotive drive. You can compare decoders or analog control equiepment by how slow they can drive your locomotive. The best record is 2 minutes for 1cm drive (that is analog only), the best for digital is about 1 minutes. For pure experiens of real locomotive you should have at least 1-1.5 minutes for 1cm. Anything like 30 seconds and less is a toy like products. But quite hard to find decoders which would demand this requirements. However I could tell that records for slow speed decoders belongs to C-digitaldecoders. From mainstream companies the best slow speed Zimo MS. The second one is how you could set exponential speed growth and can your decoder deal with it. In real life objects do not accelerate like model locomotives, they need to stretch low range. Zimo could meet that demand. And for the third one is a sound. ESU does not invest great money in sound, it is artifitial. And Zimo as well. For real prototype sound you need to buy it from third studios, like mr. Portigliatti who protect his work and sells his sound project only with decoders by his shop only. Those studios like him making real sound of locomotives which you obviously could hear in real life. But it cost time and money. I hope you received answer for your question.
@Alexander_Sth Thanks a lot. I can see your point now, and I kind of agree and disagree simultaneously. From my perspective, we are talking about something small, made of plastic, with a totally different power source compared to the original product. If you want to "play trains" like me, you don't care so much about realism, especially if the models themselves are so far from being accurate. If I wanted to see how trains really look and act, I would go to a railway museum. That's my level of expectation, and I understand that for some people it might be unacceptable. For what I want from my trains, there is no better sound decoder than ESU. Main function and what I'm looking for is sound. There are a few different sources available to anyone liking them. Some are better, and some are not as good. But still, we are talking about tiny speakers trying to reproduce mighty chuffs or a massive diesels roar. The best sound projects and recordings of the highest quality can't do what real locomotives do.
@@mariuszs.3029 well, there are two types of modellers. Those who like model train drive as it is, and those who do not at all. Usually we can speak of two generation of people, but I would like to admire that coreless motors in model locomotive were invented by old generation almost after Switzerland invent it for US space. For me model train does not sense if it move like a toy. And if some modellers in 70-s started to think the same way, some of them had scientific status, like Dr Meinhold, who invented fantastic things for locomotive control so why in the end of 2024 we would consider normal to have toy instead of real driving experiense? No doubts that If Zimo drives better and slower, I would easily throw away ESU. Sound projects are quite compicated as well. It also should be real dear Marius. And for that at least you should put microphone in right place. And companies like ESU put it in wrong place and things done. No matter how quality speaker should be if sound recorded from machine room and in real life you hear it from outside at least at some distance without machine room noise. That how it should be done. Not easy to record and prepare project like it. But other way I see no reason to pay for a sound decoder few times more than normal. Speakers are also not a problem at all. Most of people use sugar cubes, but if you like you could fine tests for a different speakers which available on market for a 5-10 years. Also ESU sells biggest and best Taiwan bass speakers which are the best ones for Diesel. Also some local GB shops selling very good speakers from Aliexpress as their own brand. Those models are spectacular products and got full and rich sound range which would surprise you as a Genelec in real world.
Great video this is what we need as we all go through this minefield trying to get DCC chips to be just perfect. Very informative to be continued> so stay tuned as they say :)
@@kenjohnson-n3e Indeed. I’ve always wanted to undo the CV mysteries. This was a good opportunity and many thanks👍
You can make ESU work with cordless motors it just takes a lot… I mean a lot of cv changing. Tramfabrek has some recommended settings that work pretty well across the board
Got a replacement ESU but, sounds are still hardly audible with global volume at max 192.
I got my locomotion yesterday and found similar issues , but they are easily rectifyable.. I think the squeak was the vertical connecting rods rubbing in the slots on the side walkways...bit of oil sorted that. The stuttery stop start running seems to be the axle based pickup springs on both loco and tender ( yes tender has pickups) which had too much oil.. and the wheels, I felt there was a certain film left by the manufacturing process. So contact cleaner on the springs around the axle, then very small amount of oil where axles meet the body, and cleaned the wheels. The running is much improved. 👍. Also extended running in helps. I have fitted a Bachmann 36-567A which is a rebadged zimo mx618....unbelievable crawl with this , and really fab motor control generally....its a brilliant model..
@@markweightman3805 Thank you for all this. When I tested tender only on tracks the loco didn’t respond so interesting. I don’t have any squeak as such thankfully. I’m a little jaded with decoder issues but, it’s gone off for inspection 👍
@modeloco Not surprised.. Had my fairshare with an Oxford Adams radial and esu... Anyhow a zimo next 18 makes the No1 purr. Hope Esu do the right thing for your defunct decoder. 🤞
@ Hopefully yes thanks too. It’s been a struggle tbh. Just got it a bit closer and got 30mins. Love the Zimo in my TT120 Class 08 and no issues with HM7000’s. Fingers crossed x
Some historical notes
On Opening Day, Active (Locomotion No.1) ran between 4 and 8 mph.
Given a 4 foot diameter wheel, that works out to 2 to 4 chuffs per second.
Locomotion, for all the exotic valve gear, was a 4 chuff per wheel rotation locomotive. Bog standard sound per wheel rotation.
The blast pipe was still in development, so the full throated sound of a normal locomotive will be lacking.
@@stephensonsdynamometer6747 Brilliant information I think I’ll be running a bit faster but, thank you so much 🙏🙏🙏👍👍
@modeloco May wish to look at your chuff rate sir. In your video, you appear to have 2, not 4, chuffs per rotation.
@ Yes it was very hard to get under control. I’ll work on it though Stephen when it returns 👍👍
thanks for a easy tutorial on the esu chip.
too bad that hornby did not release a chip for the locomotion 1.
👍👍👍👍👍🇸🇪🇸🇪🇸🇪🇸🇪🇸🇪🇸🇪🇸🇪
@@odenviking Thank you and yes I agree. 🙏💫
@ you are welcomme.
CV 57 works the speed at speed step 1 and CV 58 work the higher speeds ( think like 10 on 28 speed steps )
Interesting & Thanks. I'll look again once decoder returns
Also according to the instructions for chuff timing you really shouldn’t be using cv249 unless you need to curtail sound distortion at higher speeds on very small driving wheels
@@Marco-xz9scThanks for the updates👍
Hi Andy
Dion here (You know the first Mug guy from Blackpool) My question is where do you get that rolling road, it looks very clean and tidy my friend.Any help will be appreciated, Thanks
@@dionwoollaston2389 Hello Dion, The mug stars in most videos and will never forget this gift or the pics you sent. Hope the layout is going well. The rolling road was a bargain on Amazon compared to other places.
It was…
£76 as they do go on sale at different times if you can wait.
At present they’re £85.96 I’ve just checked. I also got a spare set of rollers off Jadlam Racing but, through their eBay store so check both for best price inc’ delivery.
At present they’re £19.99 directly off Jadlam with free shipping. I paid quite a lot less about £12.79 I recall off them but, hey ho.
Hope that helps and yeah love the Hornby One. PS if you can leave a wire connected to it that may be a good idea as the little plugs aren’t the strongest of designs so don’t like a lot of put in, take out. That said super little addition to your work bench area👍👍👍👍
@ yes I watch every video sometimes twice or three times ( I’m not obsessed lol ) because they are so good and informative Andy
I love the storage system you have made you are so talented and the way your doing things in the garden and shed but it’s too cold outside at this time of the year I don’t know about global warming hahaha
Love the hair by the way
I keep saying to the wife that I want a buzz cut and she goes mad , I say it don’t matter nobody sees me anyway
Yes I have put six more 8x2 boards up over the existing layout and made a new end to end and three of them just villages and a coach depot no track or locos on those.oh I have build a new layout up in the loft with four tracks and about twenty locos and trucks
So plenty of things to be going on with thanks for the answer I’ll have a look now
Thanks
@ Oh superb stuff. Sounds like you’re busy. How strange my other half was saying to do it and shave your head Andy for 3 plus years. So much attachment to it and okay’ish on camera but, got odd remark. In reality it was no more really after 2020 without Caboki and no more waking up now with it on my forehead and in my eyes lol 😂
@ I don’t know how old you are Andy but I’m 56 and past caring what people think of me
I was 28 stone and then had a gastric bypass ten years ago and I now weigh under 11 stone so 17 stone down which I can’t believe it myself
I know you are giging so your looks are important to you but really it’s the sounds you make that are really important so sod it lol
We all have these journeys to take and most are in bodies that seemingly challenge us in so many different ways. My body never craved food but, it certainly lets me know if I don’t eat right and the right stuff so the pain can help teach us too. The body is just the vehicle, it’s what’s within that counts whatever the size or hair as you say. It troubles me that so many kids don’t love themselves and we have to learn to do that because it’s been too long, left untaught. Those who give out bad vibrational energy are usually suffering deeply too, it’s about them, not those they hurt and they’re not usually hating but, actually admiring, neglected by love and unable to celebrate and share their own inner joy and beauty so it becomes inverted completely and they then begin to become devoid of it. When we as a society then trust and put more of these types in positions of power to serve us then we see the resulting inversion on a much grander scale until it consumes itself again ❤️
I’m still waiting for my locomotion 1 to arrive, hopefully it be here tomorrow or Monday. I think ESU Is the best sound decoder on the market, very versatile in what you can program and produce on to the decoder. Components fail from time to time. Don’t quote me but I think ESU if a 2 year warranty on there decoders. It maybe time to upgrade your controller?
@@rorz101uk I love Zimo too and have a Digitrax system too but, elite was easy to see for this one 👍
I though I would take a rest today. Well, you've done a little work on critical mistakes, I've see some improvements, very good, I'm happy.
- you kneeled camera on yourself while working with lok, so it is more natural to see "from your eyes". But it is much better to record from your shoulder (lef or right), so camera would not disturb you and you can film things much closer (45 angle horizontal and 45 vertical would be first point to find ideal position)
- seems you filmed some parts 60p, but forgot to control video software and it cut 60fps parts to small fps parts, so really you uploaded 30 fps. When you would upload 60fps, you would see it in YT near 4k (4k60fps)
- but even 30fps much better that those you made before, it looks nice and smooth with working part. For running parts looks like software where you make film crushed video smootheness (you need to check best setting in the Premier and check box with double control), but even this is much better than 24fps, yet I can see locomotive.
- you put camera closer, that is really nice for running, but you could do it much clother for some parts
- if you would improve things above than you can think about light. For working process it is very nice, for running I thing you have too much from above and lack from sides. And it is better to have paper covering your lamp (it cost almost nothing)
- for sure you could make shorter videos, 10+- minutes would be enough and easy to make
Altough I've catched jokes from your support team I think they could tell you thanks that you make at least this critical things, and for sure they would be happy to see new variant.
@@Alexander_Sth Phew 😂 Apple software with Ltd settings but, hope you got some better close ups👍
Now we can speak about the topic. I'm quite suprised with a lot of things which you tell/read. First of all ESU is a really bad decoders. As you can see it could not handle with care over this motor. New generation MN/MS could do it perfectly well. Back-EMF autoadjusting was really fun. Somebody really think it made it right? No way... This process could be only manual and no one produce any decoder which could help to find you best PID and Back-EMF settings. I've done some research why.
Coreless motor is definately what this model needs. I think Mike from Model Railways Unlimited could take care of it. First time I've heard some problems with decoder. CM can not work with PWM 2 stage (obviously all model analog PWM controller), but work fine with MX/MN and many other decoders, even exotic like SoundGT2 decoders. So those BT decoder are really bad. And it is important to choose coreless motor type in settings.
Some tricks for Locomotion
- first I would connect all wheels to the power (4 pairs is a great option, much better than a lot of 2-3 pairs normal locos), so it is not problem at all, so this loc even has got an advantage from many standarts product
- for sound I would install really big dynamic inside those big car which you connect to this train, and it would be surprise for those people who would hear it, I thing a little lifting of sound source would be much better than worst one in right place
I’ll take all that in later 👍
For sound decoders, I'm only using ESU, and they have never failed. For non-sound decoders, I have some Zimo's, Lenz, and even Hornby. Maybe I'm not expecting too much, but I've always been happy with ESU. So, if they are really bad decoders, who makes really good ones?
@@mariuszs.3029 the problem of ESU decoders are not that they are failed or not, the main issue in the technology of motor control and sound projects. As you see in this video ESU does not take care of PID and Back-EMF well. This is worst decoder company ever for me. And that is the main technology of locomotive drive. You can compare decoders or analog control equiepment by how slow they can drive your locomotive. The best record is 2 minutes for 1cm drive (that is analog only), the best for digital is about 1 minutes. For pure experiens of real locomotive you should have at least 1-1.5 minutes for 1cm. Anything like 30 seconds and less is a toy like products. But quite hard to find decoders which would demand this requirements. However I could tell that records for slow speed decoders belongs to C-digitaldecoders. From mainstream companies the best slow speed Zimo MS.
The second one is how you could set exponential speed growth and can your decoder deal with it. In real life objects do not accelerate like model locomotives, they need to stretch low range. Zimo could meet that demand.
And for the third one is a sound. ESU does not invest great money in sound, it is artifitial. And Zimo as well. For real prototype sound you need to buy it from third studios, like mr. Portigliatti who protect his work and sells his sound project only with decoders by his shop only. Those studios like him making real sound of locomotives which you obviously could hear in real life. But it cost time and money. I hope you received answer for your question.
@Alexander_Sth Thanks a lot. I can see your point now, and I kind of agree and disagree simultaneously. From my perspective, we are talking about something small, made of plastic, with a totally different power source compared to the original product. If you want to "play trains" like me, you don't care so much about realism, especially if the models themselves are so far from being accurate. If I wanted to see how trains really look and act, I would go to a railway museum. That's my level of expectation, and I understand that for some people it might be unacceptable. For what I want from my trains, there is no better sound decoder than ESU. Main function and what I'm looking for is sound. There are a few different sources available to anyone liking them. Some are better, and some are not as good. But still, we are talking about tiny speakers trying to reproduce mighty chuffs or a massive diesels roar. The best sound projects and recordings of the highest quality can't do what real locomotives do.
@@mariuszs.3029 well, there are two types of modellers. Those who like model train drive as it is, and those who do not at all. Usually we can speak of two generation of people, but I would like to admire that coreless motors in model locomotive were invented by old generation almost after Switzerland invent it for US space. For me model train does not sense if it move like a toy. And if some modellers in 70-s started to think the same way, some of them had scientific status, like Dr Meinhold, who invented fantastic things for locomotive control so why in the end of 2024 we would consider normal to have toy instead of real driving experiense? No doubts that If Zimo drives better and slower, I would easily throw away ESU.
Sound projects are quite compicated as well. It also should be real dear Marius. And for that at least you should put microphone in right place. And companies like ESU put it in wrong place and things done. No matter how quality speaker should be if sound recorded from machine room and in real life you hear it from outside at least at some distance without machine room noise. That how it should be done. Not easy to record and prepare project like it. But other way I see no reason to pay for a sound decoder few times more than normal.
Speakers are also not a problem at all. Most of people use sugar cubes, but if you like you could fine tests for a different speakers which available on market for a 5-10 years. Also ESU sells biggest and best Taiwan bass speakers which are the best ones for Diesel. Also some local GB shops selling very good speakers from Aliexpress as their own brand. Those models are spectacular products and got full and rich sound range which would surprise you as a Genelec in real world.