Have the Hours Been Changed on This Deere 850?
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 1 дек 2024
- Got a letter from a viewer who was looking at an older John Deere tractor with extremely low hours. It was an 80's model 850 with 124 hours on it. He wanted to know if it was possible that a tractor of that vintage could have been used that little, or if the hour meter could have been altered. The answer is yes to both questions.
In this video, I first show how to determine what year a tractor is by the serial number. Then we look at tractors advertised online to see if the low hours is normal and what average selling prices are. Then, I show how easy it would be to get a new hour meter with zero hours by finding the part number on Deere's website and entering it in my browser.
In this situation, I think one of three scenarios is likely. First, the hours could have been altered by someone trying to get more money for an older tractor. A new hourmeter costs $449, and if you were trying to disguise excessive hours, you'd have to also spend more money to replace other worn components. On a tractor that old, and that small, it's unlikely that the amount of money you'd get from doing that would help the value of the tractor that much. I think that's unlikely.
One practice that is somewhat accepted in the equipment industry is to replace an hourmeter when rebuilding an engine. Of course, having a new engine doesn't mean the rest of the components are new, so it's on the verge of being unethical. The common practice is to write the hours when the engine was replaced with a paint pencil somewhere on the tractor so anyone looking at it will know that the engine is newer than the rest of the tractor.
The second scenario is that the tachometer or hour meter failed at some point in the tractor's past and was replaced. If that happened, there should be some note of the situation on the tractor somewhere with a paint pencil.
Finally, it is possible that a tractor that old only has 124 hours. There are folks who think they need a tractor, but once they have one it almost never gets used. That's not out of the realm of possibilities, especially on small tractors. It may have been parked in the barn for the better part of its life, and only used to brush hog a small area or do snow removal sporadically.
You can usually tell if the hours are right by looking at the components on the tractor that show wear. Steering systems, shifter lever and other controls get weaker with age. If the tractor has 124 hours, those should all be tight, just like a new one.
If that all checked out, I wouldn't have a problem getting a tractor like this one. I'd sure want to budget some money for repairs after I got it because when a tractor sits like that, fuel gets old and gaskets and seals get brittle. It's probably going to take an investment to keep it field ready at first.
What do you think? If you've had experience with barn finds like this one, leave your experience in the comments.
LINKS YOU NEED TO KNOW ABOUT...
The Tractor Fun Store: asktractormike...
Support the Tractor Mike Channel: / tractormike
Visit the Tractor Mike website: asktractormike....
Visit Facebook Page: / ask-tractor-mike-31211...
Copyright 2022 Tractor Mike LLC
![ROSÉ(로제) - APT. (Band VER.) (With. 이영지) [더 시즌즈-이영지의 레인보우] | KBS 241129 방송](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/IW8qaemx74g/mqdefault.jpg)
Two years ago I bought a JD 790 - 4wd/Loader - with 144 hrs. Everything checked out as best I could tell at the dealer. BUT only a few hours into working it, doing loader work, started having big trouble with the hydraulic system. Loader jerking and barely going up, power steering jerking and hard to steer. - Fortunately JD dealer is 2 miles down the road. Diagnosed as Algae growth in the hydraulic oil. They flushed and cleaned, and replaced filters. Ran great-for 10 more hours. Same problem. Back to dealer. Since then I have done the procedure two more times myself. Has worked flawlessly all summer. After $2,000 in combined repairs and fluids. Abnormally low hours CAN be a problem.
Generally the most obvious age indicator are the rubber parts (tires, hoses, and seals), but as you mentioned, worn pivot points are pretty obvious, too. I actually appreciate a machine where the engine has been rebuilt, or replaced, that gets a new hour meter to keep track of engine hours. As long as a conspicuous record of the ORIGINAL hours is kept, then the new hour meter can be used to keep track of maintaince/service interval hours.
About 2 years ago I bought a 2014 jd1023 with about 200 hours on it. It only had a mower deck and no loader. Could also tell the pto was never used. From that I could tell it had probably only been used for mowing so it probably hadn’t been beat up too much. Had a loader installed before I took it home. Been a great tractor with few minor issues since. Very relieved that I made a good choice!
In 1999 I purchased a 1979 IH-284 (gas/carbureted/4 cylinder- 28ish HP -- Mazda engine) with 450 hours. The rascal has been essentially bulletproof. Had to do very little over the years--did add a front end loader and regularly run a 5 ft brush cutter--perhaps a bit oversized. I practice solid PM and and don't ride it hard and put it up wet. It now has about 1150 hours... You can see I'm using it about the same way the previous owner did in terms of annual hours (regular usage, 2ish hours a couple times a month.) I'd buy another like it in a heartbeat. After listening to your video, the thought occurred that I've been a little spoiled; when the key is turned, my expectation is it will trundle into the next job like always.
Hello, Mike! I purchased a used Kubota M4700DT with LA1002 loader/bucket for $17,400 in 2018. ( I later discovered I was the 3rd owner.)
It had 392 hrs on its’ tach…which I believe to be correct because tire tread was 90%, paint bright not faded, brake pedal travel short-distance to engagement and clutch travel not excessive, …and the rubber pads on the pedals had full tread (no evidence of heavy usage) …and the metal floorboard paint had only light scuffing evidence from footprints. A previous owner apparently tried to use it to clear acreage with a FEL/bucket and there was some evidence that it had been run-over tall brush. (underneath tool box crushed, hyd filters dented, and front axle drive-shaft cover pressed upward against the drive shaft). When I asked the seller about manuals his comment was that “manuals were only good for feeding mice”…which explained discoveries made later:
1- He had removed the low-fuel warning lamp & socket (which also serves as charging system warning)
2- The coolant temp gauge was stuck on “cold” and never indicated warm engine (didn’t operate it long enough during pre-buy inspection to suspect that).
3- It had fresh oil change w/Fram (not Kubota) filter, and a new battery.
4- It was recently washed/detailed and looked great and the price was in line with similar M4700 s on the market…so I bought it.
5- After a week it would not “turn over” for start…battery was at 11 volts. Jump-started it and found the alternator was only putting out 11 volts. (Owner clearly was hiding the charging problem when the low-fuel/no-charge lamp removed was considered.) I replaced the alternator and ordered/replaced the warning lamp and socket. (Thank you Kubota for still stocking new parts for 25-yr old Kubotas.)
Re: #2 above- The coolant temp gauge wiring between sensor and gauge was destroyed by mice. I installed fresh wire and that repaired it.
Although these items were irritating….especially revealing about the sellers’ lack for forthrightness….(I also failed to ask a simple question: “Anything wrong with it you know of?”) … I basically only performed a cursory pre-buy inspection….didn’t bring a volt-meter or get beneath the tractor even to inspect… I feel very lucky to find a Low-time, pre-emissions 4WD diesel tractor with factory loader and excellent tires and mechanicals.
I did call the local Kubota dealer who checked by Serial number who the selling dealer was and the original owner. I called both and found that it had been properly serviced at it’s first mandatory (50 hr) service by the selling dealer, and the original owner did confirm that he’d sold it to my seller(2nd owner) and that he’d only put a few hours on it the first year before deciding he actually needed a bulldozer instead of a tractor.
I paid cash for it and the seller was very helpful in loading and securing it for me (a good learning lesson)…and also taught me to remove the key from the ign. before taking it on the highway to prevent key-loss.. and to support the trailer with jacks before backing the tractor onto it.
Your videos and helpful spirit have truly benefitted me and I am grateful for your experience and expert advice.
Kind regards,
George H.
PS: tractordata and the selling Dealer in Baytown TX (WOWCO) confirmed it first delivered in 1996.
You answered a question that came up for me this year. I had purchased a pre 2000 swather and the hour meter no longer worked. It had stopped at 7500 hrs. Not knowing your suggestion of writing on the tractor the hours at the time of replacing the gage, I decided to keep the old gage to prove my actions. I will now use your suggestion also.
I have a JD990 4wd compact tractor with FEL. I bought it new in August, 2005. It currently has 242 hours on it. I'm pretty meticulous about the maintenance on it and change oil/filters/lube every fall. It still purrs like a kitten and have only replaced a broken 3 pt hitch swing control arm (my fault). I use it for snow removal in winter and various chores during summer .
I would have no issues buying a low hour tractor as long as I knew the maintenance history.
Thanks for your great videos!
March 2020 I bought a JD 2210 with a belly mower, and loader, 700 hours for $8000. I changed all fluids and filters before I started using it. I have put on 120 hours. Replaced 1 wheel bearing. Great little 4 wheel drive tractor.
Interesting info as usual. Sorta related I worked at a car dealership when I was a teenager in the 60's. The used car cleanup guy had a set of picks to go into the back of the speedometer to adjust mileage. He also had an electric gizmo that hooked to the speedometer cable and ran for hours to remove miles. Clutch, brake, and accelerator rubber pedals were replaced if worn. The guy was an expert at cleanup. Buyer beware
I ran an 850 for years ..on a tractor with that low of hours you ought to be able to tell by looking at the brakes and clutch pedal the foot pans and all the other stuff you mentioned 👍 ... I know I remember on that tractor some of the rubber bushings mounts spherical tie rod end rubbers on it look like they were 30 years of weathered brand new straight from the dealer when they delivered it all dry rotted and cracked
About 5 yrs ago I bought a 1985 JD 950 with about 650 hrs on it. I had to clean out the fuel tank, flush the radiator and change the fluids. It runs great now and has never let me down. those yanmar engines run great.
I know a local guy that owns a very successful construction business and buys all kinds of tractors and equipment for tax write offs. They sit for the most part, with some of them hardly used at all. Well he decided to sell one of the tractors. I don't recall the model but it was around 100hp John Deere about 15 years old with insanely low hours. The hours are correct because everybody knows he buys tractors just to look at them. A friend of mine bought it, thinking he had gotten a great deal on a low hour tractor, but he ended up having all kinds of problems out of it. Apparently, it's almost as hard on them to just sit than it is actually using it.
Having said that, I bought a 1976 Massey Ferguson MF40 loader backhoe about 10 years ago that had a verified 531 hours on it when I bought it. It was pretty much the same situation, A local rich guy bought it new when he got a farm. He used it a little, I guess decided he didn't want to farm, parked it, and let the farm grow up. I bought it from his widow when he died. Now I knew it was going to have issues from sitting that long (almost 30 years). Engine was locked from sitting, I had to replace all the hydraulic hoses and cylinder packings, along with other things. It is super tight though, like a brand new one. It now has just a little under 700 hours, because I don't use it every day, but I do try to run it though its paces every week or so just to keep it limbered up.
I'm what some people might call an ole lady. I bought myself a JD 5055E in 2014 to use around my 4 acre homestead. We have an old 1970s MF tractor with a loader out at the farm (10 miles away), but it's a little too long and tall (feels tippy mowing ditches) to try to manuever around my small aceeage. It also has a cab with no a/c 🥵 so I had multiple reasons for my purchase.
On my 5055E I run a 7 foot Bush Hog shredder, a blade, a post hole digger, I pull a 14 ft wheat drill, but mostly I use the front end loader to load and unload heavy items I don't want to try to manhandle alone. Ive used it to move dirt and knock down and load dead trees.
The hours on mine were under 300 last time I looked. I think that was in winter 2020 when I installed a new battery. My tractor sits inside the unheated barn unless I'm using it on a project, when I park it under a carport for the birds to perch on. They also build nests under the instrument cluster which turn into quite an ordeal to remove. Most of the little used tractors I looked at for 10 yrs before I bought this new one were extremely low-hour tractors.
I bought a 4 year old kubota M 6060 with 238 hours of commercial use. Dealer did full service and provided a hydraulic top link to seal the deal $26000 4 wheel drive and loader included. Unit has given 0 problems!
Hello Mike I'm surprised at how many people dont recognize wear on a tractor just go by the hours and that's it. More information is helpful. Have a great day.
I bought a 2017 JD 3025e in 2020. I had to replace the whole instrument cluster earlier this year, including the hour meter. JD installed it for me. The new instrument cluster showed the correct hours.
I’ve bought mainly pre owned tractors my whole life. I currently own 11ea tractors mostly in the 90-150hp range. And a couple are 35hp-45hp. I’m a true BLUE guy and as such stay with NEW HOLLAND. I have bought all of these from original owners w 400-800 hours on them. and by staying with New Holland I know what to look for and what to ask as well as a through inspection and I know what goes bad on the models that I like/own. Call me lucky but with out fail all of these machines have been Maintence free except for normal PM’s and regular service. I did just ship last month and buy a brand new AGCO/Massey Ferguson 5711 Dyna4 tractor and I can truly say that AGCO is kicking all the major players butts in quality, features, comfort and how the tractors are specified. It also my first Government Juice tractor ever…. So far so good. If you know what your are looking at I would buy preowned when ever I found a great machine.
EPA requires that the engine hours ( newer diesel engines) not be altered. The meters do go bad and need to be replaced occasionally. We always took pictures of the meter, recorded it in the log book. Usually left the old meter somewhere to show the inspector. The bigger concern was when people didn't change a broken meter for many months. No way to evaluate that. You can buy hour meters that mount on the engine for very little cost.
I have not purchased a low hour tractor, but I have purchased 2 high hour tractors. I purchased them for a price that I knew I could afford to do major work on them. I had both engines rebuilt, 1 clutch replaced, and minor other work done. When I was done, I had tractors that ran for thousands of hours with very few problems and I had the peace of mind of knowing exactly what had been done. All of this at a considerable savings of $$.
I would not hesitate to do the same thing again. I would would be more concerned about paying a premium price for a low hour tractor.
Good information. Thank you.
If purchasing such a unit, I would immediately (if not sooner) plan to to replace all fluids and filters with a follow up fluid change after 50 or less hours of usage. This would apply to any tractor that sat for long periods.
As others have said and you addressed, there are lots of indicators to judge the usage level of the tractor.
As to ethical to change an hour meter, assuming the hours of the previous meter are noted with the tractor in some visual means, I think it more ethnical than not replacing a broken meter.
Also, some seals and such may be okay as they are used. Minor leaks on a 40 yr old tractor would be minimum concern to me just be sure fluid levels are where they should be. A greater concern would to damage caused by water getting into areas and the rust and algae issues.
I myself replaced a digital control module on my Kubota BX1860 because the RPM indicator portion had failed and gone blank. I did not even think about the hour meter indicator at the time. It was only later that I realized I no longer knew how many hours I had on the tractor. I don't know if there would have been a way to reset the new module to indicate the correct hours or not, but I didn't even think about it until much later. I will never sell the tractor (love it too much) so it should not be an issue for anyone but my children. On the other hand, I have a Kubota B2710 that I purchased new in 2000 and have only reached the 600-hour mark on the hour meter this year. I feel like it has been used a lot, but my property is only 10 acres, and the tractor is used for landscaping and gardening on that acreage, so the hours just haven't added up to that much. I'll never sell it either!
Good information, Mike!
I’ve replaced an hourmeter before because the tachometer failed. (Actually someone came and busted out the glass in every gauge. Apparently a disgruntled employee who worked at the company that auctioned it off). I kept the original in the tractor toolbox to give to the next owner when I sold it.
I purchased my tractor new and I was thinking about adding another in the future. I too would be interested in the answers to your questions Mike.
Just wondering.... could tire wear and condition, in concert with the appearance of other components, also be a reliable indicator of actual usage vs. the cumulative hours indicated on the tach?
At that hour , tires should look new...Other than weather cracks from sitting
Could be, but at least where I live it seems nobody will build a shed or lean to and keep their machinery stored out of the weather, so you could find a really low hour machine with terrible paint, rotted tires, etc. just from sitting out in the weather for years.
I would say so.
Tires depends. If all it did was run up and down the road, it doesn't take very long at all to wear out a set of tires. Pedals are also a good indicator, if they look worn that tractor has quite a few hours.
I sold a 20 year old JD1050T with under 200 hours... Got a lot of bs from keyboard commandos. First guy to see it with its dead batttery bought it for 22K with a loader. He put down a deposit on the spot.. So they are out there.. Back in the late 70's, early 80's 4WD and Power steering were OPTIONAL...
Maybe check the serial # with JD maintenance logs and see if it was ever serviced...with higher hours. Agree, no way to tell.
One of the worst things to do to an engine is let it sit without being started for years. The oil slowly leaves the wear surfaces and the engine can even lock up rusting the pistons to the sleeves.
Great channel, liked and subscribed. Do you by chance have experience with updating the headlights to led? My uncle has a later model 850 and thought about ordering him some but not sure if or what brand would be more applicable. Any feedback is welcome, thank you.
I've not had experience with an LED upgrade. If you do it, let me know how it goes and I'll try to pass it on to others.
@@TractorMike Thank you for replying. Ill look into it and if I find that such is applicable I’ll follow up. Search continues lol
A tractor like a regular car that sits for longer periods of time without being used wouldn't be something I'd spend much on because every seal and gasket in the engine, transmission, hydraulics, etc. will most likely need replaced, and should be done before you start using it, so budget in a lot of money spent in having all that work done unless you can do it yourself...and if you have to have it done you are much better off buying a brand new tractor because you'll rack up a lot of hours in labor paying a shop to replace all those seals and gaskets, and all the other related services that need done on a machine that has been out of service for a long time.
Mike, that tractor either never got used much, or someone replaced the hour meter for one reason or another. Someone may have bought that tractor, used it a while, passed away, moved and sold it, could be all sorts of what if's in these cases, and without talking to the original owner of it, its only a guessing game as to what transpired as to why that tractor has such low hours.
Would I buy a tractor like in this situation, yes, but I wouldn't pay much for it if there's no history to go with it.
Boss how long du glowplugs last...when du I change them 350 hours ion emax 25 now seams smokey on start up cold weather
I don't know what the average life of glow plugs is. I haven't had one fail yet.
@@TractorMike gratsey
Tractor Mike off subject but I have a Ford New Holland 1920 and I have to have in neutral to crank, however i have to jiggle the shifter in order for it to crank. Is there a safety switch on that shifter? If so can I bypass until I get new one? If that is my issue which I say so seeing how I now have to jiggle it a bit. Thx in advanceand new sub here and Thx for your videos!!
Could be in the shifter mechanism or inside the transmission housing, I'm not sure how those tractors were configured. You can look up every part on that tractor at New Holland’s website here: partstore.agriculture.newholland.com/us/parts-search.html. Just enter "model" where it says “type” on the right and then put in your tractor model number and navigate to the section you need. Sometimes it helps to see a diagram of what’s inside before you start taking things apart.
I never recommend bypassing safety switches, they're there to protect you!
Wisest move would be to buy a new tractor (with warranty) and buy used attachments. 🚜
A search of how to hack tractor digital hour meters indicates that it can be done and is being done, although there is no way to know how often it happens. I can't imagine hour hacking is something a dealership would do, but buyer beware at an on line auction or with an unknown private seller.
If your crafty enough some bad people can actually change the hour meter out! 😬
If we are generous and assume the 850 is a 1989 model, that is still less than 4 hours of use per year, on average. Your comments regarding suspension and steering, as well as others’ comments about wear of foot pedals and rubber items should provide clues. Even with meticulous maintenance records, I’d be leery.
Pedal wear tells alot.
On a JD the hours don’t matter high or low - it isn’t any good anyhow.
Buy a better tractor that isn’t strange and different from everyone else.