Hi Jonathan. You said the higher the pot odds, we should defend. Then said if it’s Multi-way, we should defend less. I assume that higher pot odds implies more people in the hand. What is the distinction?
Used to be defending too tight, now it’s probably not 3-betting enough… I had already learned the principal of tighter multi-way, but I didn’t realize tighter deeper and I definitely didn’t appreciate more LINEAR deep. So is that the opposite for a button 3-bet? Let’s see from BTN, I think you want to play higher SPR vs the OOP raiser which puts him at more of a realization deficit, so that’s against 3-betting, but of course you have to 3-bet if the blinds are competent to prevent THEM from 3-betting!
Played online cash session yesterday, and player to my immediate right RFI'd from BTN and SB every single orbit. And 9 out of 10 hands I held were absolute JUNK! I'd like to see a video on this situation on junk in the blinds facing an every orbit wide RFI range from the immediate right.
I want to thank you Mr. Little. I made my 1st final table and finished top 3. I definitely owe a great deal of that to the lessons I've learned from your premium package I've been studying from. I know there's variance involved but I had a great hold of fundamental play and lessons I've learned from you. Thank you again sir...
I play holdem because I love the game, I’m good at it, but never realized there is a whole technical side of it! I love to learn and improve my game! Thank you for the information may we meet at a final table my friend!
Thanks much, only note, Light red and light green are all just light drab brown to red green colorblind folks. If you added texture or made it have yellows or oranges
I’m playing my biggest tournament so far tomorrow. I’m not sure how I’ll go but I feel a little more confident watching some of your videos brushing up on some things before I go into it!
Very instructive video! The most common mistake I can relate to is to defend too often in multiway pots and defend too wide when deepstacked. Because it's kind of intuitive if you think about it. You get great pot odds or think you can afford to play weaker holdings when you have more chips. But this video clearly shows why it is the opposite.
4:34 - screenshot of charts. So convenient and so thoughtful. Thank you Mr. Little! Although I sincerely hope that you find yourself on the receiving end of immense wealth and public respect, I must refrain from hitting the like and subscribe button. The more players who aren't me who see your videos, the less of an edge I'll have over the population at large. It is to my great relief that these videos have viewcounts in the tens of thousands rather than the tens of millions they deserve. Quality here is off the charts. Big ups, Jonathan :)
Brilliant. So much info on such an important and often (by weaker players) underlooked topic! I only began realising the important of improving blind play a week or so ago and boom there's this great info. I have now have screenshots of these charts😀 and JL's head! 🤪
Great video! I've been doing the exact opposite on the last two points. I've been defending more with deep stack, figuring it wouldn't hurt as much when flop comes and I have to fold. Also, I've been defending more in multi-way pots, knowing I have good pot odds but forgetting the bad implied odds. Can you follow this up with a postflop strategy for blinds? I like defending my blinds, but when villain makes C-bet, I have a hard time justifying staying in, even though I know how wide their range must be.
Happy New Year JL, I hope that you had a great day and a new year to bring many wins on the felt. Great video and I learned heaps from it. The 2 points that you mentioned about being deep stacked and calling multi-ways, I always hear comments like - cmon, you have the chips to call from the BB, and you are getting so good pot odds in the BB, you can call with any 2 cards. Prior to your video, I was in two minds about these situations and now I am 100% listening to your advice. This year I am going to devote my time to studying the game so that I can improve. Thank you for all your great videos.
Appreciate this, love the 60bb shoving range. Didn't think to have one at this stack depth but it's absolutely a no brainer in the scenarios you laid out.
Thank you for the content sir! Trying to prioritize my time any more efficient way to give me time to consistently watch your videos. Learning something every time I watch them!
Great help, i still feel like a bunch of calls should make me defend more often. Crazy it's literally the opposite yikes having holes in your game without even knowing it's a hole. Oops
At 11:08, I found it pretty surprising to have a shoving 3 bet range at 60 BB. I understand that the range of the callers is weak but it seems like a 3 standard 3 bet should get the job done most of the time. Especially if we consider that we have an edge on the table and that we play better post flop than most of our opponents at the table, it seems like very high variance and risky to 3 bet shove with as much as 60BB with so many marginal hands. When we get called (mostly by the open raiser), our range is totally crushed by is calling range.
I always struggle with the difference between having blockers and being dominated. The example you gave was having A6 facing calls from the button and SB. While I agree that the more people in the hand, the more likely you are to be dominated, you also said that these are likely really weak calls. So wouldn't A6 be ahead of a lot of the middling hands that these players likely have?
Rule 1 and rule 6 can contradict each other. Which one takes precedent? I find it hard to fold even the weakest hand when getting 10-1 odds even if every player calls a min raise.
From my short and unproffesional online non-cash experience -> when all players limp, or call min raise i usually fold with weaker hands... and raise with premium hands... -no middle option for me... when there are 8 people at the table and all call min raise... you either need to scare them away with good raise... or not take part in that big gamble...
When should I take the betting lead on the flop defending from the bb heads up? I like to sprinkle in some range advantage bluffs but I know how unbalanced I am because I'm often checking when I connect with the flop to allow my opponent to c-bet then I spring the check raise.
I may be off, but it seems to me like you’re not factoring in your opponent’s image and subsequent range and position when deciding whether to lead on a flop you connect with. Most people even when making a concerted effort to make certain plays to patch a leak (in your case it would be leading in the right spot against the right player) and have it work for them once, tend to get satisfied and revert to their “standard”. Continue to exploit until you feel your opponent has noticed what you are doing, and then mix it up and balance against them to REALLY throw them off.
I tend to call more often when more people have called a raise, as the pot odds get better the more money I can potentially win, in proportion to the amount I have to put in. Also I think everybody has to put in the blinds at some point, so if you just defend your range doesn't it even out over time. Why play worse cards against probable AJ+ and lose more money on top of the big blind you already lost? I don't know, it's a very grey area I think.
Thinking of signing up on he website. I'm still pretty new to poker but I think I've got the basics down pat and want to get better. The currency conversion is pretty brutal to AUD so figured I'd ask the comments is it worth? Did your game improve?
The video almost contradicts itself in one particular aspect, and this leads me to my biggest “leak” in terms of defending my BB. The video states to defend less in what will be multiway pots, yet it also says to defend wider if you are getting good pot odds. A small raise called once or twice in front of you gives you better pot odds to defend your BB wide, and also gives you better implied odds (if you suck out, you’re more likely to get paid). I’m typically a sucker for this. If you have a hand you want to defend with but it’s going to be a multiway pot if you just flat, a squeeze play is probably optimal. But there’s also lots combos that even though you would like to defend with (the charts probably say to defend with these types of combos as well), you should probably be squeezing with to avoid a multiway pot, however they may be the types of combos that you generally shouldn’t be squeezing with from the blind (OOP). People who don’t know my playing style I can typically destroy when defending my blinds, but once people see how I play my blinds, there is definitely an exploit or two available to them and it’s tough for me to counter if they have a loose, aggressive image and they were the one to open in position....
"The video states to defend less in what will be multiway pots, yet it also says to defend wider if you are getting good pot odds." Both of these are true all things being equal. When there is one caller between you and the original raiser, the multiway aspect (worse equity and worse equity realization) outweighs the better pot odds (compared to a heads up pot). If you add a second caller, the defending range gets slightly tighter still (the downside of an extra opponent slightly outweighs the extra money in the pot). I believe when there are 3 or more callers this trend stops, the range doesn't continue to tighten (multiway downside no longer outweighs pot odds upside), but I could be mistaken. I'm going to use numbers here to give an example of the concept I described above, but know that the numbers themselves may not be accurate. Let's say in a heads up pot against an open raise from a given position, you are defending 50% of your hands from the big blind. Then when you face that same open plus 1 caller, you might defend 40% of your hands from the big blind. When facing the same open plus 2 callers, you might defend around 37% of your hands from the big blind. Even though the % of hands defended doesn't go down as much when there is more than 1 caller, it will become increasingly important to select hands that play well multiway. So a hand like AJo will go down in value and a hand like 65s will go up in value. "A small raise called once or twice in front of you gives you better pot odds to defend your BB wide, and also gives you better implied odds (if you suck out, you’re more likely to get paid)." Keep in mind you also have more reverse implied odds (e.g. you make a flush and one of your opponents makes a higher flush).
Hands that you won’t defend multi-way when given better odds are hands that play awful multi-way. 86o is an easy call against a min-raise from the btn with antes in play, but when played multi-way against co and btn, 86o, while probably a call, is a lot worse because you will drastically under-realize your equity, especially given you are out of position against multiple players, and when you do hit hands, you will often still be behind.
_rewatch_ One problem I find with memorising these charts is the endless output variables & slightly shaded boxes. For example, if the voices say "go all in 19% of the time", is this helpful? Choosing which 1 in 5 hands to do the shove with is the problem I have. But I have an idea for reducing confusion. Have an option to round the output to zero or [say] 25-33% as a minimum when saying 'how often should I...?' RFIs would not only look cleaner, but be far easier to memorise. If you should only do it 20% of the time, tbh does the average intermediate player have the skills yet to know which hand is the one? I see variance issues! Essentially, if the player isn't expected to do something [extreme] more than 20% of the time, do you think the option of less nuance might offer more value for us lesser players? Just my rewatch thoughts on the charts in general. Cheers all.
Need the comparison up to 300+bb deep, not just 60bb deep! I think it becomes very different when deep stacked. For example you can defend a lot more against tight ranges when super deep, it becomes worth it just to flop 2 pair + with some silly hand and crack their aces :)
A question: 60bb deep in BB, I assume my stack and opponents stacks are almost the same 60bb, what about if opponents have less or more than 60bb? Lets say co raises with 30bb and btn calls with 25bb, would I play the same with my 60bb stack? Or co with 200bb and btn calls with 100bb?
If someone from EP raises 5BB and has at least one call, you wanna defend your shite cards, especially if these are suited gappers, especially if you cut their chances for a straight etc. simply because pot odds are great, and they usually are in small stakes games. 2-3 ppl dove into the pot before BB means their ranges most likely cross each other and you may end up flopping 2 low cards you disliked so much checking what you were dealt. Anyway, you need to be extra careful because some of these people may have a set but still, if you flop 53 on 53K board, AK will pay a lot. sometimes you may end up folding some 99 on the blinds when a tight straight forward opens early and get a call or re-raise. however, it always depends on the people you are playing with.
@@jasonisfamous6544 it's not a theory, it's practice :D But it always depends whether big pair vs small pair are in the pot as well etc. It should be a careful game but definitely worth to see the flop. I kicked out 3 players at the same time defending BB with low suited connectors - flopped two pair. But I was a chip leader at my table. Were I the shortest stack I'd think a little longer if I should be diving into this pot. Jonathan doesn't pay much attention calling multi way pots at low stakes. High stakes players almost never see the flop 4-5 ways, small stakes it is 90% of the hands
Are those 85% call ranges really profitable in todays online 100 bb cash games? I have a hard time seing, that hands, such as 73s are profitable. I am predicting massive -150 bb/100 of worse winrates from the BB with such range.
@@Mark-bh8mb I get that. I more so mean is there a spot where you are getting such good odds, that even say 6/5 off would be considered ok. Like if you have to call 1.5 BB for a pot of 16 BB.
@@denisfolcik1373 someone else agreed, he said after 3 calls of the raise, this video is saying raise 2 calls and then your decision. I think i agree with him, that after that third caller you are getting the right price to try and hit two pair.
Let's also not forget player profiles. A preflop raise coming from a nit who sits and waits 220 hands for his primo dreamo... I'm defending BB pretty narrow. A preflop raise coming from someone who ordinarily would want to see a cheap flop then check and call to chase draws... I'm tossing everything but AA. A preflop raise coming from Honest Johnny the used car salesman who tries to buy every pot... im defending without even looking.
BTN PFR Vs BB call. If BTN PFR is about 2.5BB then BB can call a HUGE range in theory but often realising the equity of the lower end of that range can be a slog. So much of the lower end of BB call range is uncomfortable floating the flop that its actual equity Vs its realised equity becomes distanced. Eg offsuit connectors or low Kx hands. What does this all mean? I've not got a f'ing clue.
"If BTN PFR is about 2.5BB then BB can call a HUGE range in theory but often realising the equity of the lower end of that range can be a slog" Very much true. The solver ranges that John showed *take equity realization into account, but unless you're an absolute crusher you should probably just fold the bottom of that range preflop. *though I do not know several of the relevant parameters the solver was given as an input (open size, % rake if for cash games, ante size if for tournaments)
Aren't you talking about _effective_ stack size here. I always buy more chips and never play with fewer than 100 BB, usually more, but I see lots of 50 BB stacks and smaller where I play, mostly trying to hit a high-hand jackpot. If you mean i should defend narrower against the raises from those guys, i agree, but I want to make sure.
I’m BB in tourney and it gets down HU with small blind. He shoves I call with ace high and have his JT beat but he out flops me Did I do the right thing?
@@PokerCoaching I had above average chips and have been going all in a lot stealing blinds. He has more than me it gets to him heads up he’s small blind and decides to give me a taste of my own medicine. All in I tank a little pick up a live read and call his all in with a7
![What To Do When You MISS The FLOP [Poker Strategy]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/CRKkf7Pug5k/mqdefault.jpg)
![What To Do When You MISS The FLOP [Poker Strategy]](/img/tr.png)
What would you say is your BIGGEST LEAK from the big blind?
Playing too man hands
Hi Jonathan.
You said the higher the pot odds, we should defend. Then said if it’s Multi-way, we should defend less.
I assume that higher pot odds implies more people in the hand.
What is the distinction?
Used to be defending too tight, now it’s probably not 3-betting enough…
I had already learned the principal of tighter multi-way, but I didn’t realize tighter deeper and I definitely didn’t appreciate more LINEAR deep. So is that the opposite for a button 3-bet? Let’s see from BTN, I think you want to play higher SPR vs the OOP raiser which puts him at more of a realization deficit, so that’s against 3-betting, but of course you have to 3-bet if the blinds are competent to prevent THEM from 3-betting!
@@kineahora8736 man you sound like a really sophisticated player. are you from new zealand
@@nodissdiss275 not a sophisticated player and not from New Zealand lol. Kind of a random thought eh?
I love this format. The freeze in the middle so we can take a screenshot is awesome!
Glad you like it!
Played online cash session yesterday, and player to my immediate right RFI'd from BTN and SB every single orbit. And 9 out of 10 hands I held were absolute JUNK! I'd like to see a video on this situation on junk in the blinds facing an every orbit wide RFI range from the immediate right.
Love these 12-15 min timeframe vids!! Keep up the great work my friend!! Already bought your book and I 💘 it!!
Awesome! Thank you!
Which book the one i bought was all over the place with the 17 authors or whatever lol
I got 2 of JL books . They are so good I gave one to my son's as one of their Christmas presents 😁
I want to thank you Mr. Little. I made my 1st final table and finished top 3. I definitely owe a great deal of that to the lessons I've learned from your premium package I've been studying from. I know there's variance involved but I had a great hold of fundamental play and lessons I've learned from you. Thank you again sir...
The stack depth and more multi-way were points I rarely considered. thanks.
I was mind blown with the 60bb shoving range multi way... Thanks JL for the information!!!
I play holdem because I love the game, I’m good at it, but never realized there is a whole technical side of it! I love to learn and improve my game! Thank you for the information may we meet at a final table my friend!
Glad you enjoy it!
I don't know if I'm getting more knowledge but the way you explain these videos make a lot sense great job
Glad to hear it!
Thanks much, only note, Light red and light green are all just light drab brown to red green colorblind folks. If you added texture or made it have yellows or oranges
I’m playing my biggest tournament so far tomorrow. I’m not sure how I’ll go but I feel a little more confident watching some of your videos brushing up on some things before I go into it!
All you can do now is show up and play your best. Good luck!
Very instructive video! The most common mistake I can relate to is to defend too often in multiway pots and defend too wide when deepstacked. Because it's kind of intuitive if you think about it. You get great pot odds or think you can afford to play weaker holdings when you have more chips. But this video clearly shows why it is the opposite.
Glad it was helpful!
4:34 - screenshot of charts. So convenient and so thoughtful. Thank you Mr. Little!
Although I sincerely hope that you find yourself on the receiving end of immense wealth and public respect, I must refrain from hitting the like and subscribe button. The more players who aren't me who see your videos, the less of an edge I'll have over the population at large. It is to my great relief that these videos have viewcounts in the tens of thousands rather than the tens of millions they deserve. Quality here is off the charts. Big ups, Jonathan :)
Thanks, Jonathan. I never really had structure with defending the big blind.
You're welcome!
Brilliant. So much info on such an important and often (by weaker players) underlooked topic! I only began realising the important of improving blind play a week or so ago and boom there's this great info. I have now have screenshots of these charts😀 and JL's head! 🤪
Glad you enjoyed it!
Great video! I've been doing the exact opposite on the last two points. I've been defending more with deep stack, figuring it wouldn't hurt as much when flop comes and I have to fold. Also, I've been defending more in multi-way pots, knowing I have good pot odds but forgetting the bad implied odds. Can you follow this up with a postflop strategy for blinds? I like defending my blinds, but when villain makes C-bet, I have a hard time justifying staying in, even though I know how wide their range must be.
Me too this is going to be tough to totally change strategy when i been this wrong this long
Glad it was helpful!:)
And yes, I'll look to make another video with some post flop tips.
@@PokerCoaching Thank you!
Your videos have helped me improve my game so much. Love the content
I'm glad to help!
Happy New Year JL, I hope that you had a great day and a new year to bring many wins on the felt. Great video and I learned heaps from it. The 2 points that you mentioned about being deep stacked and calling multi-ways, I always hear comments like - cmon, you have the chips to call from the BB, and you are getting so good pot odds in the BB, you can call with any 2 cards. Prior to your video, I was in two minds about these situations and now I am 100% listening to your advice. This year I am going to devote my time to studying the game so that I can improve. Thank you for all your great videos.
Happy New Year!
Appreciate this, love the 60bb shoving range. Didn't think to have one at this stack depth but it's absolutely a no brainer in the scenarios you laid out.
Wow I never Jam the hands I need to in this spot. Great video! Leak plugged
Awesome!
Thank you for the content sir! Trying to prioritize my time any more efficient way to give me time to consistently watch your videos. Learning something every time I watch them!
Hey Jonathan, are there charts for defense in shorthand cash games? Thanks. Loving the content
PokerCoaching.com in the Tools section.
Great help, i still feel like a bunch of calls should make me defend more often. Crazy it's literally the opposite yikes having holes in your game without even knowing it's a hole. Oops
This is something i have been struggling with. I find it hard playing the blinds espcially blind va blind
Awesome video and tips. Going to try this out today
Thanks, I'm glad you put it into practice!
Great content! Thank you, Jonathan! 🤘
My pleasure!
Best poker content on RUclips 👏👏👏👏
Appreciate that!
I just won a Tournament minding your Tip. Thanks.
Nice work!
Thanku bro love listening to you driving home from sessions
Thank you!
Hey coach,love the free lessons.
Joining soon.
Great discussion of how big blind defense changes based on various factors. Are the charts assuming an ante or no ante?
I'm glad you liked it! these are with an ante.
Ok ... that's weird. You released that video just as I was studying your BB vs. BTN charts. Spooky.
JL has an algorithm too
:)
Another informative video by JL.
Good stuff. Thanks!
Glad you liked it!
At 11:08, I found it pretty surprising to have a shoving 3 bet range at 60 BB. I understand that the range of the callers is weak but it seems like a 3 standard 3 bet should get the job done most of the time. Especially if we consider that we have an edge on the table and that we play better post flop than most of our opponents at the table, it seems like very high variance and risky to 3 bet shove with as much as 60BB with so many marginal hands. When we get called (mostly by the open raiser), our range is totally crushed by is calling range.
I always struggle with the difference between having blockers and being dominated. The example you gave was having A6 facing calls from the button and SB. While I agree that the more people in the hand, the more likely you are to be dominated, you also said that these are likely really weak calls. So wouldn't A6 be ahead of a lot of the middling hands that these players likely have?
Rule 1 and rule 6 can contradict each other. Which one takes precedent? I find it hard to fold even the weakest hand when getting 10-1 odds even if every player calls a min raise.
From my short and unproffesional online non-cash experience -> when all players limp, or call min raise i usually fold with weaker hands... and raise with premium hands... -no middle option for me... when there are 8 people at the table and all call min raise... you either need to scare them away with good raise... or not take part in that big gamble...
Very useful content tks.
Glad it was helpful!
When should I take the betting lead on the flop defending from the bb heads up? I like to sprinkle in some range advantage bluffs but I know how unbalanced I am because I'm often checking when I connect with the flop to allow my opponent to c-bet then I spring the check raise.
I may be off, but it seems to me like you’re not factoring in your opponent’s image and subsequent range and position when deciding whether to lead on a flop you connect with. Most people even when making a concerted effort to make certain plays to patch a leak (in your case it would be leading in the right spot against the right player) and have it work for them once, tend to get satisfied and revert to their “standard”. Continue to exploit until you feel your opponent has noticed what you are doing, and then mix it up and balance against them to REALLY throw them off.
Thanks!
Thank you!
I tend to call more often when more people have called a raise, as the pot odds get better the more money I can potentially win, in proportion to the amount I have to put in. Also I think everybody has to put in the blinds at some point, so if you just defend your range doesn't it even out over time. Why play worse cards against probable AJ+ and lose more money on top of the big blind you already lost? I don't know, it's a very grey area I think.
Thinking of signing up on he website. I'm still pretty new to poker but I think I've got the basics down pat and want to get better. The currency conversion is pretty brutal to AUD so figured I'd ask the comments is it worth? Did your game improve?
Check out pokercoaching.com/fundamentals and pokercoaching.com/free first.
Great stuff
The video almost contradicts itself in one particular aspect, and this leads me to my biggest “leak” in terms of defending my BB. The video states to defend less in what will be multiway pots, yet it also says to defend wider if you are getting good pot odds. A small raise called once or twice in front of you gives you better pot odds to defend your BB wide, and also gives you better implied odds (if you suck out, you’re more likely to get paid). I’m typically a sucker for this. If you have a hand you want to defend with but it’s going to be a multiway pot if you just flat, a squeeze play is probably optimal. But there’s also lots combos that even though you would like to defend with (the charts probably say to defend with these types of combos as well), you should probably be squeezing with to avoid a multiway pot, however they may be the types of combos that you generally shouldn’t be squeezing with from the blind (OOP). People who don’t know my playing style I can typically destroy when defending my blinds, but once people see how I play my blinds, there is definitely an exploit or two available to them and it’s tough for me to counter if they have a loose, aggressive image and they were the one to open in position....
"The video states to defend less in what will be multiway pots, yet it also says to defend wider if you are getting good pot odds."
Both of these are true all things being equal. When there is one caller between you and the original raiser, the multiway aspect (worse equity and worse equity realization) outweighs the better pot odds (compared to a heads up pot). If you add a second caller, the defending range gets slightly tighter still (the downside of an extra opponent slightly outweighs the extra money in the pot). I believe when there are 3 or more callers this trend stops, the range doesn't continue to tighten (multiway downside no longer outweighs pot odds upside), but I could be mistaken.
I'm going to use numbers here to give an example of the concept I described above, but know that the numbers themselves may not be accurate.
Let's say in a heads up pot against an open raise from a given position, you are defending 50% of your hands from the big blind. Then when you face that same open plus 1 caller, you might defend 40% of your hands from the big blind. When facing the same open plus 2 callers, you might defend around 37% of your hands from the big blind. Even though the % of hands defended doesn't go down as much when there is more than 1 caller, it will become increasingly important to select hands that play well multiway. So a hand like AJo will go down in value and a hand like 65s will go up in value.
"A small raise called once or twice in front of you gives you better pot odds to defend your BB wide, and also gives you better implied odds (if you suck out, you’re more likely to get paid)."
Keep in mind you also have more reverse implied odds (e.g. you make a flush and one of your opponents makes a higher flush).
Hands that you won’t defend multi-way when given better odds are hands that play awful multi-way. 86o is an easy call against a min-raise from the btn with antes in play, but when played multi-way against co and btn, 86o, while probably a call, is a lot worse because you will drastically under-realize your equity, especially given you are out of position against multiple players, and when you do hit hands, you will often still be behind.
Video does not contradict itself.
The charrrrrrt. Thnx 8)
Do you have a pdf of the charts?
_rewatch_ One problem I find with memorising these charts is the endless output variables & slightly shaded boxes.
For example, if the voices say "go all in 19% of the time", is this helpful? Choosing which 1 in 5 hands to do the shove with is the problem I have. But I have an idea for reducing confusion. Have an option to round the output to zero or [say] 25-33% as a minimum when saying 'how often should I...?'
RFIs would not only look cleaner, but be far easier to memorise. If you should only do it 20% of the time, tbh does the average intermediate player have the skills yet to know which hand is the one? I see variance issues!
Essentially, if the player isn't expected to do something [extreme] more than 20% of the time, do you think the option of less nuance might offer more value for us lesser players? Just my rewatch thoughts on the charts in general. Cheers all.
Need the comparison up to 300+bb deep, not just 60bb deep! I think it becomes very different when deep stacked. For example you can defend a lot more against tight ranges when super deep, it becomes worth it just to flop 2 pair + with some silly hand and crack their aces :)
Defend tighter as you get deeper.
Happy New Year Sharks
Happy new year!
A question: 60bb deep in BB, I assume my stack and opponents stacks are almost
the same 60bb, what about if opponents have less or more than 60bb? Lets say co raises with 30bb and btn calls with 25bb, would I play the same with my 60bb stack? Or co with 200bb and btn calls with 100bb?
Shortest stack of a player involved is always the effective stack. So if you’re 60BB deep but BTN is 25BB deep, you’re playing 25BB
Then you adjust! It is not necessarily easy as assuming you have the shortest stack.
Im all for defending a bind but honestly if ur holden 6 3 or 7 2 and u get raised its basicly pointless to defend it ???
Are the 60bb charts applicable for 100bb effective stacks cash games?
Not especially, use the 100bb cash game charts in the pokercoaching.com app and adjust them to be slightly looser for most live games.
Maybe you will answer the question... the Multi-Way chart on the right says you should fold A6o but call A5o and A4o. Why?
Wait.. Is the answer cause you can make a street with these two cards?
But why folding A3 and A2 as well?
Fwiw, they are all REALLY close.
Can’t read those charts… Even when I screen shot and zoom in, it’s too blurry to even read.
Guess you have to buy the package direct instead of taking the free stuff.
Sorry about that, use the PokerCoaching.com app.
Where can I get that chart?
I'm not defending my blind with K6o when the LJ raised... maybe the if the button raised me, but not the lowJack
Seems too loose
Depends on raise size. Ranges are probably calculated for a minraise.
@@FefeLeVrai agreed, those charts should give that information somewhere
Red is all in
Pink small raise
Green call
Blue fold
@@Melcavic42 I'm talking about the raise size, and probably info about that player
Are these all for a 2.2bb open?
Roughly.
Not taking a chance and bluffing when the situation dictates that I should.
If someone from EP raises 5BB and has at least one call, you wanna defend your shite cards, especially if these are suited gappers, especially if you cut their chances for a straight etc. simply because pot odds are great, and they usually are in small stakes games. 2-3 ppl dove into the pot before BB means their ranges most likely cross each other and you may end up flopping 2 low cards you disliked so much checking what you were dealt. Anyway, you need to be extra careful because some of these people may have a set but still, if you flop 53 on 53K board, AK will pay a lot.
sometimes you may end up folding some 99 on the blinds when a tight straight forward opens early and get a call or re-raise.
however, it always depends on the people you are playing with.
I had the same theory if everyones raising and opening i think suited connectors would play good because pf the odds
@@jasonisfamous6544 it's not a theory, it's practice :D But it always depends whether big pair vs small pair are in the pot as well etc. It should be a careful game but definitely worth to see the flop. I kicked out 3 players at the same time defending BB with low suited connectors - flopped two pair. But I was a chip leader at my table. Were I the shortest stack I'd think a little longer if I should be diving into this pot.
Jonathan doesn't pay much attention calling multi way pots at low stakes. High stakes players almost never see the flop 4-5 ways, small stakes it is 90% of the hands
God, I wish I had a photographic memory..
Me too!
Weird how in the last chart with 15bbs AA is the only pair it says to NOT shove all-in with
Can someone explain?He says that,if you get good odds you have to call,but its bad in multiway?
You will realize your equity far worse in multi-way pots.
First, you've got to understand that everything you do at the table conveys information.
we can barely read those charts ugh :(
Get the pokercoaching.com app to see them more clearly.
Are those 85% call ranges really profitable in todays online 100 bb cash games? I have a hard time seing, that hands, such as 73s are profitable. I am predicting massive -150 bb/100 of worse winrates from the BB with such range.
These are tournament ranges with an ante. you should be significantly tighter in cash games with a rake.
So where is the "sweet spot" between multi way and good pot odds?
It's in the chart, he specifically said not to go multiway with hands that you can easily be dominated.
@@Mark-bh8mb I get that. I more so mean is there a spot where you are getting such good odds, that even say 6/5 off would be considered ok. Like if you have to call 1.5 BB for a pot of 16 BB.
@@denisfolcik1373 someone else agreed, he said after 3 calls of the raise, this video is saying raise 2 calls and then your decision. I think i agree with him, that after that third caller you are getting the right price to try and hit two pair.
Let's also not forget player profiles.
A preflop raise coming from a nit who sits and waits 220 hands for his primo dreamo... I'm defending BB pretty narrow.
A preflop raise coming from someone who ordinarily would want to see a cheap flop then check and call to chase draws... I'm tossing everything but AA.
A preflop raise coming from Honest Johnny the used car salesman who tries to buy every pot... im defending without even looking.
BTN PFR Vs BB call. If BTN PFR is about 2.5BB then BB can call a HUGE range in theory but often realising the equity of the lower end of that range can be a slog. So much of the lower end of BB call range is uncomfortable floating the flop that its actual equity Vs its realised equity becomes distanced. Eg offsuit connectors or low Kx hands.
What does this all mean?
I've not got a f'ing clue.
"If BTN PFR is about 2.5BB then BB can call a HUGE range in theory but often realising the equity of the lower end of that range can be a slog"
Very much true. The solver ranges that John showed *take equity realization into account, but unless you're an absolute crusher you should probably just fold the bottom of that range preflop.
*though I do not know several of the relevant parameters the solver was given as an input (open size, % rake if for cash games, ante size if for tournaments)
Aren't you talking about _effective_ stack size here. I always buy more chips and never play with fewer than 100 BB, usually more, but I see lots of 50 BB stacks and smaller where I play, mostly trying to hit a high-hand jackpot. If you mean i should defend narrower against the raises from those guys, i agree, but I want to make sure.
Effective stack is all that matters.
I’m BB in tourney and it gets down HU with small blind. He shoves
I call with ace high and have his JT beat but he out flops me
Did I do the right thing?
Even though you might be trolling, there still isn't enough information here to say.
@@Mark-bh8mb just answer the question
how many big blinds was it for and what hand did you have?
@@PokerCoaching I had above average chips and have been going all in a lot stealing blinds. He has more than me it gets to him heads up he’s small blind and decides to give me a taste of my own medicine. All in
I tank a little pick up a live read and call his all in with a7
@@fmcdomer how many bb brother? Id say if its less then 30 its fine
Makes absolutely no sense to me why players don't check the big blind to see the flop. Is there something I'm missing?
I m really blind when i m at blinds
Then study!
This is pretty common sense stuff.