Thanks for adding this David. I do discuss plant patents elsewhere on the channel, but TBH my understanding of the law has evolved over time. It's always been the case that enforcement of breeders rights has been aimed at commercial growing and selling. Makes sense from a financial, practical and perhaps even an ethical point of view to leave home gardening out of it. As it turns out (in Canada at least, but I'd have to check for elsewhere) that the law also reflects this exemption. So I'll say what I've said before: if you're a commercial grower, respect the patents as the morally and legally right thing (IMO). But I won't bother trying to enforce something on home gardeners that isn't actually aimed at them.
Two things to set your mind at rest. Plant patents only last 20 years in the US so there are a lot of good-off patent (or never patented) plants out there. Usually there should be something on the tag indicating the plant is patented. I think we have all gotten the impression that most plants are patented because those are so heavily marketed. A patent is a property right so it would be enforced by the patent holder in a civil lawsuit (there are no patent police). Assuming that there is no exception for home gardeners (I haven't researched the point), the patent holders are unlikely to care if a few cuttings are rooted by a home gardener.
Thanks @aalejardin good points. Sadly the industry is sometimes (intentionally?) misleading about patent status, with large suppliers tagging *everything* as patented - just to be "safe". Also the assumption that all new annuals are patented isn't a safe one. Because breeding is moving so fast in some areas, it makes little sense to spend money enforcing patents on an annual you'll replace in the breeding program in 2-3 years. So as you say, the average gardener can more or less disregard the issue. It's only us who grow and sell plants commercially that need to navigate the muddy waters.
to answer some questions on plant patents: There is nothing in the plant patent law (United States) that says "homeowners excluded". It is illegal to propagate, in any manner, a patented plant. Plant breeding is a very risky business. I've seen 4000 sq foot greenhouses that grew thousands of mum plants, twice a year,. Every one of those plants was evaluated several times, notes taken, tested in the pathology lab for problems etc. They released about 1 new variety per year from all that labor and expense. At the homeowner level, the law depends on your honor. Like a lot of the things that we can do, a homeowner faces no consequence for ignoring this law. But it is stealing. Without honoring plant patents, we just won't have new varieties. We need plant breeders, and royalties are how we reward their good work. At the commercial level, there ARE plant patent police. I've had them show up (at a commercial greenhouse) several times over the years.
I watch these videos and think, "I could do that!" But luckily for nursery owners like you, I never get past the thinking stage. I'll see you next spring for a look at these when they're all grown up. :)
This was an awesome video. My neighbors gave me a huge Mum to take care of when they went on vacation. They told me I could keep it, but I returned it when the weather got warmer for the last week or two. Now I’m wishing I kept it. Thanks for the hot tip Jason!
Zone 7-ish farmer here. I've always had very good luck rooting cuttings from blooming plants in the fall (when I can still see what I got from the bargain bin) and keeping the barely-growing plants in the tunnel over the winter. They then take off in the spring. Only thing that's killed them has been forgetfulness around watering on my part...
Thanks! Same here. I love a good rescue - mine this fall was a nearly dead Salvia 'Hot Lips' that's thriving now with my cuttings. I'm resolved this year to pay a lot more care to the dormant(ish) plants in my tunnel over winter.
Nice video ... that's how I multiply my garden mums for years! Normally I do it after flowering though. I take some semi-hard stems like you did. Another method I use after the blooms are done is to divide the root into many pieces, as long as it has a bit root attached it will make it and actually that way is much easier and faster. The downside is that you can only get that many divisions out of one pot, but good enough for a backyard gardener like me:)
Thanks! Our season has been off this year and my petunias lasted until last week so I wasn't able to get any mums out and now it's probably too late for them. I've seen them in bargain bins and thought well maybe I could try propagating them for next year but when I looked it up I saw spring was best for getting cuttings and decided not to. Now I'll give it a go!
Great content as usual, thanks! I had pretty good luck with florist mums overwintering in my planters in my city garden, Zone 7b. Out in the country this year, Zone 6b, I "temporarily" put a few mums into the raised bed vegetable garden intending to use them for a porch display that I haven't gotten to -- I'm going to leave them and see how they fare. If they survive the winter, I will move them to a border in the spring. One note is that these plants will have a larger, looser habit than when you bought them unless you are willing to do all the trimming that is done to create the typical domed shape.
Mine were so eager to get out of their pots, they PROMISED me I don't have worry about a thing. So I planted 2and put 2 innthe garage. The ones in the garage are very jealous.
At this point because I took the cuttings fairly late, I'll likely just overwinter them inside with some of my other young cuttings and tender plants. The roots looks strong, and so there's some chance that I could also harden them off in a couple of weeks and overwinter with my other potted plants (outside in the greenhouse or in the unheated garage)
Can you use honey in place of the rooting hormone? I have seen it on other videos and just wondered. I would like to try to root some beautiful mums we have blooming at this time.
At this point because I took the cuttings fairly late, I'll likely just overwinter them inside with some of my other young cuttings and tender plants. The roots looks strong, and so there's some chance that I could also harden them off in a couple of weeks and overwinter with my other potted plants (outside in the greenhouse or in the unheated garage)
I wasn't using bottom heat at the time - but a little gentle heat always speeds things along. During the cutting stage it's low to moderate light - indirect would be fine.
I love this idea and would like to try this - thank you for the instructions. Now that it’s getting cold and these have been propagated indoors and are young plants what is the next step? Do they stay indoors all winter or can the go outside at some point.
Thanks Christine. At this point because I took the cuttings fairly late, I'll likely just overwinter them inside with some of my other young cuttings and tender plants. The roots looks strong, and so there's some chance that I could also harden them off in a couple of weeks and overwinter with my other potted plants (outside in the greenhouse or in the unheated garage)
@@FraserValleyRoseFarmSpeaking of which , I have a room full of Coleus cuttings and Mums I would like to try same thing. This room gets cold even attached to my house. I am trying to figure out what air temperature I have to maintain and thinking of buying heat mats also. ANY GUIDANCE WOULD BE SO HELPFUL!!!! ANYONE ❓
Jason.. i have started 200 lavender. Some geraniums on oct 24th. I used a burpee seed starting mix made of coco coir. On heat mats. I used hormadin 3. Supplemental light. No roots yet!! What am i doing wrong?
I can only guess that the lavender in the landscape was already thinking about hardening off for semi-dormancy, and is having difficulty switching back into rooting and growth mode. Best time of year (although I sometimes break the rules!) is in late spring or early summer when they're in fast active growth. If they're still nice and firm (no soft rot, no black bases of stems) it may just be a matter of patience for them to react to warmer conditions. If it's regular indoor room temperature, you might not even need the heat mats.
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Planting a mum is good, but I think most florist and garden mum varieties are patented. i.e. you shouldn't propagate them.
Thanks for adding this David. I do discuss plant patents elsewhere on the channel, but TBH my understanding of the law has evolved over time. It's always been the case that enforcement of breeders rights has been aimed at commercial growing and selling. Makes sense from a financial, practical and perhaps even an ethical point of view to leave home gardening out of it. As it turns out (in Canada at least, but I'd have to check for elsewhere) that the law also reflects this exemption. So I'll say what I've said before: if you're a commercial grower, respect the patents as the morally and legally right thing (IMO). But I won't bother trying to enforce something on home gardeners that isn't actually aimed at them.
Two things to set your mind at rest. Plant patents only last 20 years in the US so there are a lot of good-off patent (or never patented) plants out there. Usually there should be something on the tag indicating the plant is patented. I think we have all gotten the impression that most plants are patented because those are so heavily marketed. A patent is a property right so it would be enforced by the patent holder in a civil lawsuit (there are no patent police). Assuming that there is no exception for home gardeners (I haven't researched the point), the patent holders are unlikely to care if a few cuttings are rooted by a home gardener.
Thanks @aalejardin good points. Sadly the industry is sometimes (intentionally?) misleading about patent status, with large suppliers tagging *everything* as patented - just to be "safe". Also the assumption that all new annuals are patented isn't a safe one. Because breeding is moving so fast in some areas, it makes little sense to spend money enforcing patents on an annual you'll replace in the breeding program in 2-3 years. So as you say, the average gardener can more or less disregard the issue. It's only us who grow and sell plants commercially that need to navigate the muddy waters.
to answer some questions on plant patents: There is nothing in the plant patent law (United States) that says "homeowners excluded". It is illegal to propagate, in any manner, a patented plant. Plant breeding is a very risky business. I've seen 4000 sq foot greenhouses that grew thousands of mum plants, twice a year,. Every one of those plants was evaluated several times, notes taken, tested in the pathology lab for problems etc. They released about 1 new variety per year from all that labor and expense. At the homeowner level, the law depends on your honor. Like a lot of the things that we can do, a homeowner faces no consequence for ignoring this law. But it is stealing. Without honoring plant patents, we just won't have new varieties. We need plant breeders, and royalties are how we reward their good work. At the commercial level, there ARE plant patent police. I've had them show up (at a commercial greenhouse) several times over the years.
@@justafig I'm not sure how to take your reply. Is it positive or negative toward my comments?
I watch these videos and think, "I could do that!" But luckily for nursery owners like you, I never get past the thinking stage. I'll see you next spring for a look at these when they're all grown up. :)
My "three weeks later" update would be a tray full of stinking, shriveled brown sticks. And a cloud of fungus gnats. 😂
This was excellent. Using this method, one could propagate some over the winter and plant them out in spring where they can fully establish.
Been growing those exact mums with domes and I have 100% success.Good video!
Excellent, have to try this! Love the upside down tote!
This was an awesome video. My neighbors gave me a huge Mum to take care of when they went on vacation. They told me I could keep it, but I returned it when the weather got warmer for the last week or two. Now I’m wishing I kept it. Thanks for the hot tip Jason!
Zone 7-ish farmer here. I've always had very good luck rooting cuttings from blooming plants in the fall (when I can still see what I got from the bargain bin) and keeping the barely-growing plants in the tunnel over the winter. They then take off in the spring. Only thing that's killed them has been forgetfulness around watering on my part...
Thanks! Same here. I love a good rescue - mine this fall was a nearly dead Salvia 'Hot Lips' that's thriving now with my cuttings. I'm resolved this year to pay a lot more care to the dormant(ish) plants in my tunnel over winter.
Nice video ... that's how I multiply my garden mums for years! Normally I do it after flowering though. I take some semi-hard stems like you did. Another method I use after the blooms are done is to divide the root into many pieces, as long as it has a bit root attached it will make it and actually that way is much easier and faster. The downside is that you can only get that many divisions out of one pot, but good enough for a backyard gardener like me:)
Thanks - another great method!
That was amazing, Jason. 👍
First like! Nice. We do The same whith this flowers!
Thanks so much. Nice to hear from you all the way from Romania! Looks like you have quite a nice nursery.
Thanks! Our season has been off this year and my petunias lasted until last week so I wasn't able to get any mums out and now it's probably too late for them. I've seen them in bargain bins and thought well maybe I could try propagating them for next year but when I looked it up I saw spring was best for getting cuttings and decided not to. Now I'll give it a go!
Definitely going to try this, thanks!
My pleasure!
Alrighty, now i'm going to get me 2 lovely green mums flowers and try cutting propagation. Your mums sure is attractive, reminds me of fire crackees
I made in early October about 60 cuttings of 3 types and all have roots, they work great now
Great content as usual, thanks! I had pretty good luck with florist mums overwintering in my planters in my city garden, Zone 7b. Out in the country this year, Zone 6b, I "temporarily" put a few mums into the raised bed vegetable garden intending to use them for a porch display that I haven't gotten to -- I'm going to leave them and see how they fare. If they survive the winter, I will move them to a border in the spring. One note is that these plants will have a larger, looser habit than when you bought them unless you are willing to do all the trimming that is done to create the typical domed shape.
Good reminder. The uniformity of nursery culture does make for a different plant than in the landscape.
Mine were so eager to get out of their pots, they PROMISED me I don't have worry about a thing. So I planted 2and put 2 innthe garage. The ones in the garage are very jealous.
Lol. Definitely happier in the garden!
Great content and tips as always!
Thanks Jason. I saved the video for future reference. 🦃🍁🍂💚🙃
What did use for the propagation product ?
Rooting hormone powder, at 0.3% IBA in talc. Common brand names might be StimRoot or Horomodin
@@FraserValleyRoseFarm thank you
You are now at the end of autumn. How do you keep the cuttings alive through winter? I believe it is pretty cold in your area.
Mums are hardy in Zone 5. I had some planted outside for about 10 years. They froze every Winter and came back up every Spring.
At this point because I took the cuttings fairly late, I'll likely just overwinter them inside with some of my other young cuttings and tender plants. The roots looks strong, and so there's some chance that I could also harden them off in a couple of weeks and overwinter with my other potted plants (outside in the greenhouse or in the unheated garage)
Nice cultivar
What rooting hormone do you use ?
Can you use honey in place of the rooting hormone? I have seen it on other videos and just wondered. I would like to try to root some beautiful mums we have blooming at this time.
Honey doesn't help the rooting process, but on an easy-to-root variety like mums, you'll likely succeed with or without hormone.
How do you over winter them.
At this point because I took the cuttings fairly late, I'll likely just overwinter them inside with some of my other young cuttings and tender plants. The roots looks strong, and so there's some chance that I could also harden them off in a couple of weeks and overwinter with my other potted plants (outside in the greenhouse or in the unheated garage)
Do you put the cuttings under bottom heat to root them? How much light do they need at this stage, ie is direct bright light better than indirect?
I wasn't using bottom heat at the time - but a little gentle heat always speeds things along. During the cutting stage it's low to moderate light - indirect would be fine.
I love this idea and would like to try this - thank you for the instructions. Now that it’s getting cold and these have been propagated indoors and are young plants what is the next step? Do they stay indoors all winter or can the go outside at some point.
Thanks Christine. At this point because I took the cuttings fairly late, I'll likely just overwinter them inside with some of my other young cuttings and tender plants. The roots looks strong, and so there's some chance that I could also harden them off in a couple of weeks and overwinter with my other potted plants (outside in the greenhouse or in the unheated garage)
@@FraserValleyRoseFarmSpeaking of which , I have a room full of Coleus cuttings and Mums I would like to try same thing. This room gets cold even attached to my house. I am trying to figure out what air temperature I have to maintain and thinking of buying heat mats also.
ANY GUIDANCE WOULD BE SO HELPFUL!!!!
ANYONE ❓
@@FraserValleyRoseFarm❓
Very interesting thank you! I'm curious how long does it take in total for them to be ready to sell or plant in the garden?
A lot of growers start from spring cuttings to have potted mums ready in the fall.
Jason.. i have started 200 lavender. Some geraniums on oct 24th. I used a burpee seed starting mix made of coco coir. On heat mats. I used hormadin 3. Supplemental light. No roots yet!! What am i doing wrong?
I can only guess that the lavender in the landscape was already thinking about hardening off for semi-dormancy, and is having difficulty switching back into rooting and growth mode. Best time of year (although I sometimes break the rules!) is in late spring or early summer when they're in fast active growth. If they're still nice and firm (no soft rot, no black bases of stems) it may just be a matter of patience for them to react to warmer conditions. If it's regular indoor room temperature, you might not even need the heat mats.
Thank u.. since they look ok I'll be patient
How long will it take those plants to be full grown mums?
The better part of a growing season.